Episode 336

Summary

Sword and Scale – Episode 336 Summary

Date: January 27, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode dives into the nearly two-decade-long investigation of the 2004 murder of Rebecca Gould, highlighting the frustration and dark reality behind unsolved crimes, law enforcement missteps, obstructions, and the eventual confession from William Miller. The story transforms from a haunting cold case to a testament of citizen sleuthing, persistence, and the power of online communities to drive breakthroughs in justice.

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1. Introduction and Episode Purpose

The episode sets out to unravel the chilling disappearance and murder of Rebecca Gould in Melbourne, Arkansas, and the turbulent investigation that followed for nearly 16 years. It explores:

• The impact of the crime on all involved, especially reporter George Jared
• Law enforcement’s focus on the wrong suspects for years
• How podcasts, web forums, and amateur sleuths revitalized a cold case
• The bizarre confession and arrest of William Miller, and lingering doubts

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. The Disappearance and Discovery of Rebecca Gould

• Rebecca’s Background: A bright, independent 22-year-old visiting on-again/off-again boyfriend Casey McCullough in Melbourne, AR ([05:23]).
• Initial Reporting: George Jared, a rookie reporter, receives a call about Rebecca’s disappearance, attends the sheriff’s office, interviews family, and documents early leads ([04:42]-[05:57]).
• Crime Scene Details:
  • House appeared normal except for a blood-soaked stripped mattress, blood-stained box springs, and bloody bedding spinning in the washer ([06:00]).
  • Bleach and new cleaning supplies found, and any fingerprints wiped from key surfaces.
  • “The amount of blood was so extreme, it had seeped into the subfloor. At this point, detectives knew they’d be searching for a dead body, not an alive Rebecca.” ([06:55])
• Discovery of the Body:
  • Volunteers, tipped off by vultures, find Rebecca’s decomposed body down an embankment, wearing only a T-shirt and underwear ([09:04]).
  • George recalls the trauma and emotional breakdown of Rebecca’s father upon the discovery ([09:28]).

Notable Quote:

“It was like being in a tunnel … all of a sudden I couldn’t hear anything. I couldn’t see anything. My heart was racing, my head just was throbbing.” – George Jared ([09:28])

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B. The Frustrating Years of Investigation

Theories and Misplaced Suspects

• Focus on Wrong Suspect:
  • Police zero in on local drug user Chris Cantrell, ignoring numerous inconsistencies—he lacked the sophistication to clean a scene and had no clear motive ([14:55]).
  • Detective Dennis Simons, led by his “narc-cop” experience, saw every problem as a “nail,” refusing to consider other suspects, especially Rebecca’s boyfriend.
• Law Enforcement Obstinance:
  • Withholding autopsy results, shunning outside investigators, and refusing public assistance ([23:09]), contributing to years of stasis.
• Circle Theory:
  • Described by host: Investigators typically start with close relations before looking outward—yet in this case, they skip the boyfriend and focus on outliers ([14:00]).

Notable Quote:

“If you’re born a hammer, every problem in the world has to be a nail.” – George Jared ([17:48])

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C. Rise of Citizen and Internet Sleuths

Turning Point with “Hell and Gone” Podcast

• Impact of Media: Podcast by Catherine Townsend, later joined by cold case investigator Jen Buchholz, brings massive public attention and renewed scrutiny ([21:33]).
• Formation of Online Communities:
  • Jen and George launch a Facebook group, hoping to lure witnesses or even the killer, and assemble a crowdsourcing effort ([29:14]).
• Host’s Commentary:
  • Wit about middle-aged women and web sleuths driving progress in cold cases ([24:28]).
• Cooperative Friction: Police largely ignore evidence or tips from private and citizen investigators ([23:09]).

Notable Quote:

“The law enforcement officers that to me are truly the real professionals are the ones that reach out to the public and they ask for help ... They don’t use their ego.” – Dr. Larry Gould (Rebecca’s father) ([23:49])

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D. Building the Timeline and Red Flags

Suspicious Behavior of Casey McCullough

• Alibi Crack:
  • Casey insists Rebecca dropped him at work and vanished afterward, but evidence and multiple timelines raise deep suspicion.
  • Casey uses a friend’s phone to call his own voicemail, then immediately tells friends Rebecca is missing – hours before she’d been reported missing ([33:09]).
• Reactions and Lies:
  • Insists he never returned home after her disappearance, but evidence shows otherwise ([36:57]).
  • On being confronted about the crime scene mess, Casey claims ignorance; photos reveal the impossibility of “not noticing” ([39:05]).
  • Casey’s confession to hurting Rebecca comes years later, allegedly after drinking with friends ([41:50]).

Notable Quote:

“Like, how would you go in your room? And his bed was moved to cover a big blood stain on the carpet. Like, you can’t tell me you didn’t notice ...” – Jen Buchholz ([39:05])

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E. The Unexpected Suspect: William Miller

Facebook and Family Ties

• Entry of William Miller:
  • Joining the Facebook group in 2019, William Miller appears interested, but soon raises red flags due to his family connections (Casey’s cousin), erratic messages, and deep forensic questions ([43:51]).
  • Investigators discover that William was in the area at the time, with family living nearby—information concealed by the McCulloughs ([47:58]).
• Sync with Police:
  • Simultaneously, Arkansas State Police are zeroing in on Miller as well.

Notable Quotes:

“He was, you know, postulating theories on how she died. And he was very active on the page, and we just thought he was a mole for the family ... you could just tell ... he was kind of a weirdo anyway.” – George Jared ([43:51])

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F. The Interrogation and Confession

• Detective Interviews:
  • After years of hiding overseas, William Miller voluntarily submits to police questioning and a polygraph in November 2020 ([56:32]).
  • During the interview, detectives use classic bluffing techniques—claiming DNA evidence and blood evidence were found (they were not)—to break Miller.
• Polygraph Results:
  • He fails the polygraph (“deception indicated”), then is shown supposed “evidence” by police ([65:05]).
• Confession:
  • William finally confesses (“I did it. I’m telling you that I did it. Would you arrest me?” – [72:22]), though details are sparse, and he seems evasive or foggy on specifics.
  • He admits to moving the body and disposing of key evidence, including a missing suitcase and possibly the murder weapon.

Notable Quotes:

“Listen, man, you know I, I, I’m telling you, you know, I’m confessing to you. I’m telling you that I did it.” – William Miller ([72:22])
“Billy, you’re under arrest for the murder of Rebecca Gould.” ([72:35])

• Case Strength: Only the suitcase’s recovery—exactly as William described—provides physical corroboration of his confession.

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G. Lingering Doubt and Serial Confessions

• Casey’s Involvement:
  • Miller later changes his story, saying Casey killed Rebecca, and he just cleaned up the scene ([79:25]).
• Miller the Serial Killer?:
  • During the confession, William claims responsibility for five other murders, though no specifics or victims’ names are given ([80:41]).
• Debate on Guilt:
  • Jen Buchholz remains convinced of Miller’s guilt, but also points out that physical evidence directly linking him to the crime scene is lacking—his conviction is based almost entirely on his confession ([81:41]).

Notable Quotes:

“He confessed to Rebecca’s murder ... then he confesses to five other murders, but he doesn’t give the names of the victims.” – George Jared ([80:41])

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H. The Legacy and Citizen-Initiated Justice

• Operation Rebecca:
  • Jen organizes “Operation Rebecca,” recruiting volunteer sleuths across states to check cold cases potentially linked to Miller ([85:40]).
• Final Reflection:
  • The episode ends with a meditation on citizen justice and the digital era’s ability to solve what professionals left unsolved: “Justice doesn’t always wear a badge. Sometimes it looks like a true crime podcast enthusiast with a search tab open at 3am and way too much coffee ...” ([86:12])

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I can honestly say that I was never the same person after that.” – George Jared, about finding Rebecca's body ([10:48])
• “Ego is a hell of a drug.” – Narrator/Host, about investigators’ refusal to ask for help ([17:34] and [23:09])
• “He was obsessed with her ... but weirdly, when she vanished, he didn’t spend one second looking for her.” – George Jared, on Casey ([11:41])
• “She told her sister, she’s like, I’m done. This is it ... I’m done with Casey.” – George Jared ([13:46])

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4. Timeline and Timestamps of Important Segments

• Rebecca’s Disappearance and Early Investigation
  [04:42] George Jared recalls the first call
  [06:00] Crime scene discovery details
  [09:04] Body discovery
  [10:39] Emotional aftermath

• Law Enforcement Focus and Missteps
  [14:55] Years focused on Chris Cantrell
  [17:48] Detective’s narrow focus and ego

• Citizen Sleuth Revival
  [21:33] “Hell and Gone” podcast
  [29:14] Facebook group creation and sleuthing

• Casey’s Alibi and Red Flags
  [33:09] Casey tells friends Rebecca is missing
  [39:05] Casey’s implausible claims of ignorance

• William Miller Enters the Scene
  [43:51] Miller joins the Facebook group
  [47:58] Discovery he was in town and family’s secrecy

• Confession and Interrogation
  [56:32] Police finally interview William Miller
  [64:44] Polygraph and confrontation
  [72:22] Confession: “I did it. Would you arrest me?”

• Physical Evidence and Closure
  [73:38-78:10] Suitcase recovery, inconsistencies

• Serial Confessions and Legacy
  [80:41] Miller confesses to five other murders
  [85:40] Operation Rebecca call-to-action

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5. Tone and Language

The tone is unsparing, deeply skeptical of law enforcement’s capabilities, and occasionally sarcastic (e.g., jabs at “ego-driven cops and short shorts”). The episode draws heavily on raw, personal recollections from those closest to the case (especially journalist George Jared and investigator Jen Buchholz), as well as direct audio from the key players and confession.

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6. Conclusion: The Ongoing Quest for Justice

Despite an eventual arrest and confession, the episode makes clear this is a story weighted with uncertainty, emotional scars, and unanswered questions. It is both a cautionary tale about investigative tunnel vision and a celebration of the justice that can be achieved when ordinary citizens refuse to let a victim’s memory fade. The hope: that collective effort—“a hive of citizens”—can solve even the darkest of mysteries.

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Resource Links:

• For more on Operation Rebecca and how to join: [See show notes at swordandscale.com]
• George Jared and Jen Buchholz continue to work on the case and communicate with William Miller in prison.

For those interested in deep dives:

• Full police interviews and confessions are available on YouTube ([79:15]).

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences.

[George Jared]

Listener discretion is advised.

[William Miller]

Listen, man, you know I'm telling you. You know I'm confessing to you. I'm telling you that I did it. Would you arrest me?

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome to season 13, episode 336 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. You know, the show gets a lot better when you stop complaining and just enjoy it. I'm not going to start talking like you do when, I don't know, Northern Michigan or West Appalachia or God forsaken Ohio. You're not gonna be able to get me to talk exactly how you talk in your little specific local town. So just stop. You can't control everything. Just stop trying to control everything. You're probably saying it wrong anyway. It's usually a word that comes from a different language. Y' all saying it in Ohioan. There's something people don't talk about much when it comes to stress. The way it shows up on your face. Fatigue, dullness. Skin that just looks worn down. That's why I want to tell you about Love Indus and their Amrutini Luminosity dew drops. This is a daily serum that's often described as a facial in a bottle. And it's not hype. It's been featured everywhere from Vogue and Forbes to Harper's Bazaar. And it sells out regularly because people actually see the difference. The formula is built around rare ingredients you don't see every day, like Muga Silk, a prized silk from India that helps reinforce skin strength and elasticity. Silver Tips tea for antioxidant protection. And Ashwagandha, which helps skin recover from stress and fatigue. The texture is lightweight and silky, not greasy. And it works across all skin types and tones. Each bottle even comes with copper crusted silk cocoons for gentle exfoliation. No irritation, so your skin absorbs the serum more effectively. If your skin looks tired and you want it to look stronger, smoother, and genuinely radiant, again, this is worth your attention. I've arranged the highest discount they offer. 21% off. Go to loveindust.com and use promo code sword at checkout. That's loveindus.com promo code sword for 21% off. All right, let's continue. In a small newsroom in Batesville, Arkansas, George Jared was a brand new 20 something year old journalist. It was September of 2004. He was still learning the rhythm of leads, stories and deadlines. Most reporters expect stories to come and go. That's the nature of the job, research it, write about it and move on. Maybe go get a peppermint latte from Starbucks before they take them off the menu. But every so often, a case doesn't let go. Or maybe there's just something about a certain personality type that just can't let it go. For George, that case arrived just as his career began.

[George Jared]

I'd been there maybe seven months, I was just out of college and you know, most of the stuff I would cover be like school board meetings and, you know, city council stuff and you know, I'd get dope features at local schools and whatnot. And then one I remember very vividly, it was a Wednesday morning, Phone rings at my desk, pick it up and a woman was on the phone and she said, my niece is missing and we can't find her. And I said, really?

[Narrator/Host]

George jumped in his car and drove straight to where the woman said she was calling from the Izard County Sheriff's office.

[George Jared]

And then I walked over to some family members and Rebecca's mother handed me a missing poster that I still have to this day. It's sitting in the other room.

[Narrator/Host]

The missing girl was 22 year old Rebecca Gould.

[George Jared]

And so immediately I start talking to Rebecca's mother and one of her sisters and I just flipped the missing poster over on its other side and I put it up against the building and I just started taking notes on the back and those notes are still there. And then I walked over to her father, Dr. Larry Gould, and he was standing with another one of his daughters. And that's how I first met him. And I just, I was out with him the whole week that she was missing. That's how it started, apparently.

[Narrator/Host]

Rebecca had arrived in the small town of Melbourne, Arkansas on Saturday, September 18, to visit her boyfriend, Casey McCullough. She was on break from college, but it wasn't unusual for her to take a few days off to see friends. Rebecca's mother told George she'd talked with her daughter on the phone just the day before. But during their call, Rebecca realized she was about to run out of minutes, so she told her mom she'd call back. That call never came. When police searched Casey's house, everything looked fairly normal until they reached the back bedroom, the room Casey and Rebecca would sleep in. Inside, they found a blood soaked mattress that had been stripped and propped up against the wall. The box springs remained and it too was stained red. The bedclothes were spinning around in the washing machine. Wet fabric mixed with bleach and blood. Interestingly, any fingerprints on the Washing machine had been wiped away, probably with the brand new cleaning supplies that sat on the kitchen counter. Back in the bedroom again, sections of carpeting had to be cut up and taken in for evidence. The amount of blood was so extreme, it had seeped into the subfloor. At this point, detectives knew they'd be searching for a dead body, not an alive Rebecca.

[George Jared]

And, you know, Monday morning came one week later on September 27, 2004. I was at the office probably five or six o' clock in the morning. I got there really early and I just decided for some reason, I felt like I needed to go back to Melbourne because my office was about 25 or so miles away. And so I drove down there. There were some ladies walking around the courthouse, you know, kind of a southern thing to walk around, you know, the courthouse in the morning. And I overheard as I was walking past him, I was going to go talk to the county judge and I was going to see where they were coordinating their search efforts that day, because the county's big and it's very rural and it's very mountainous, and so it's hard. And I overheard a lady say, hey, they're out searching over by my property or my house, something like that. And I said, where do you live? And she said that she lived down Highway 9, which is a thoroughfare that connects Melbourne to Mountain View, which is Rebecca's hometown. It's very treacherous.

[Narrator/Host]

Twenty years ago, George still had that restless new reporter energy. This case had already begun to dig its claws into him. He knew he had to go help with the search efforts.

[George Jared]

And so I drove down there. I saw a line of cars on the side of the road, Just pulled in behind him, got out. It was very steep, you know, lots of trees and bushes. I saw a searcher and I asked him, I said, are you guys out here looking for Rebecca? And he said, she's right there. And he pointed at her, and she was just laying there.

[Narrator/Host]

Volunteers had already been searching for days, but on this particular day, at this spot about five miles outside of Melbourne, they noticed vultures circling overhead. Never a good sign. Searchers located Rebecca's severely decomposed body about 35ft down the embankment. She was wearing only a T shirt and underwear.

[George Jared]

You can see her. Her hair was like, over her head, like her face. I mean, what I didn't realize at the time, it literally, it had decomposed off of her scalp and had just moved down it. It almost looked like, you know, like if you flipped, if you have long hair and you just Flipped it over like that. I was in an absolute shock. Like, I was like. It was like being in a tunnel. That's the only way I could describe it. Like, all of a sudden I couldn't hear anything. I couldn't see anything. My heart was racing, my head just was throbbing. You know, at the time, I had two very small kids. And so I'm sitting here thinking, I've just talked to this mom and this dad and they're hoping me, I hope that this isn't what happened. A few minutes later, I drive back to the sheriff's department, which, as the crow flies, is only four or five miles from this place where she was dumped. And her father, Dr. Larry Gould, came running up to me and he grabbed me and he said, did they find my daughter? And I said, larry, you need to go talk to the sheriff right now. And he grabbed me and he said, did they find my daughter? And I said, yes. And he just collapsed, went to his knees, started crying, put his head in my stomach. And this is a man. I hadn't even. I'd known him for five days.

[Narrator/Host]

Rebecca was gone forever. And for a few days, time stopped. At least for the people who had hoped she'd come home alive.

[George Jared]

I can honestly say that I was never the same person after that. I remember I wrote, when I wrote the story, I wrote it. I went back to the office that night and I stayed till 4 o' clock in the morning writing it. And it was. The newspaper office was this old, creaky building. It was a huge building. And if the wind blew, you know, you hear all these creaking sounds. And I was just sitting there with her missing poster sitting on my desk, and I wrote. I've written about this before. I have never. Every single resume that I've ever submitted after this. Attached to that resume was a story I wrote about her case. And she never left me. It was in my soul.

[Narrator/Host]

After that, everyone's focus shifted to finding Rebecca's killer. While the medical examiner did the autopsy, investigators turned their attention to the trailer where she had last been seen.

[George Jared]

She was on it. She. She had an on again, off again boyfriend named Casey McCullough. And she would come back, you know, she was living up in northwest Arkansas at this point. She'd come back and see him on the weekend. She'd stay at his house. They were just kind of on again, off again. You know how it is when you're that age, you know, 22 and, you know, you're dating someone, you know, and he obviously was not A long term thing for her. She was quite a catch for him, I guess I'll just put it that way. And he was obsessed with her. He was totally in love with her. But weirdly, when she vanished, he didn't spend one second looking for her.

[William Miller]

And tell me, how did you come to know Rebecca? We worked at Sonic together, and the very first day that she worked at Sonic, I thought she was just the most beautiful creature I've ever seen. So, you know, that's when we started talking. How long did you live with Rebecca? For about two months. And after that, did the relationship. Did y' all split up or what took place? Well, we did split up. We decided that, you know, it'd be better if we just stayed friends, and that's what we did. We still spent an awful lot of time together.

[George Jared]

She would live with certain people at certain times, you know, and she kind of bounced around a little bit. But then she finally decided that she wanted to go into pharmaceutical sales. And so she. She had a sister that was already going to school up in Fayetteville, which is about, I don't know, three hours or so from Melbourne. So she moved up there, and she moved in with her sister in an apartment, and she started attending a local community college, and she started taking classes. And so she was 22, and she was just trying to get her life together.

[Narrator/Host]

The previous spring, Rebecca and Casey's relationship had been pretty serious. Casey was head over heels for her, which brought out the controlling side of him. That didn't work well with Rebecca's fiery personality. By the end of the summer, things had become a little messy. On her drive from northwest Arkansas to Melbourne, Rebecca told her sister that this would be your final trip.

[George Jared]

She told her sister, she's like, I'm done. This is it. And then they stop off at their dad's house. He gives them each a hundred dollar bill on their way to Melbourne. And she tells her father, she says, I'm done with Casey. It's over. We're done.

[Narrator/Host]

Detectives often use an investigative strategy called Cantor and Larkin's circle theory. It's a fancy way of saying that most offenders don't stray far from home when they commit a crime. They stick to what they know, neighborhoods they've been in, routes they're comfortable with, places that feel familiar. So investigators start looking close to the victim. Family partners, roommates. Then they widen the lens to include friends, co workers, casual acquaintances. And if that still turns up, nothing. Only then do they start to consider strangers. With this in mind, you'd think the first person in the hot seat would be the boyfriend. It's always the boyfriend, right? Arkansas State Police didn't think so. Instead, they zeroed in on an old friend of Rebecca's.

[George Jared]

The main suspect for years and years and years and years was Chris Cantrell. And he was just this guy who was involved in the local, you know, kind of drug scene. You know, he. I don't think he sold a lot of drugs, but he consumed him. He'd get in trouble for it. And this guy, I mean, you're not talking about somebody who has the sophistication probably to, you know, wipe their own DNA from a crime scene or get rid of all their fingerprints and all this other stuff. Because the story was, is that he. He killed her over, like, a very small drug debt. Like, now I'm talking like $40, which was really weird because she had at least that much money in her possession when she was killed. So if that was the motive, why didn't he take some of her stuff or her cash or. And the second problem with it was, was that, you know, I've written about assassinations, you know, where somebody is, you know, you're involved in a drug trade, and we're going to get rid of you. And that involves something very simple. They come with a gun, they shoot you in the head, they leave, they don't do anything else, and they walk away.

[Narrator/Host]

Rebecca's autopsy report remained unreleased for years. Even today, only a few people have a copy of it. The report suggests that she was likely bludgeoned. It's hard to tell if there were any defensive wounds. She'd been exposed to the elements for a week and. And her body was very badly decomposed. Rebecca had two clear blunt force injuries. One to the left side of her head and one that was a direct hit on the center of her face. Experts and medical professionals who have read and analyzed the report say that neither of those injuries would have killed her immediately. In fact, it's very possible that Rebecca was alive for hours after the killer hit her. Even worse, she could have been alive when her body was dumped down the embankment. As for the weapon, the autopsy pointed to something long, thin, and heavy, something like a tire iron or a bat. And in the house where Rebecca disappeared, police noticed something strange. The piano. Yeah, there was a piano. The piano was missing one of its legs.

[George Jared]

This story that this guy shows up at this house out in the middle of nowhere that he's never been before, doesn't bring a weapon. He's like, gee, I wonder if The I wonder if the piano leg will come off of this piano over here. Okay. Whoa, Here we go. Yeah. I mean, it was just this ridiculous, stupid, like, are you kidding me? Story. Like, come on.

[Narrator/Host]

A guy named Dennis was the Arkansas State police detective working the case. This man was hell bent on pushing the Chris Cantrell story, and he wouldn't give up. Ego is a hell of a drug.

[George Jared]

Well, Dennis was a narcotics officer. They had a working theory that drugs were somehow involved in this, even though no drugs were found in their system that they could find. And he had dealt with Chris in the past. And I've always said this about Dennis. It's one of my favorite sayings. You know, if you're born a hammer, every problem in the world has to be a nail. There's no other. It can't be a screw. It can't be, you know, attack. It's got to be a nail. So that's what he turned his case into. Dennis gets the case, I think, in November, December, and then he starts to focus in on Chris Cantrell. And it was pretty widely known by, like, June, July of 2005 that they were focusing on Chris. I mean, that was clear. That was out in the public. People talked about it.

[Narrator/Host]

There were other suspects along the way. And people in town gossiped about the possibility that Rebecca's boyfriend Casey was the real killer. But this detective wouldn't hear any of it. He refused to look into any tips or reanalyze any of the existing evidence, But a lot of it pointed straight to Casey McCullough.

[George Jared]

I mean, I spent, you know, years just befuddled by the detective because, you know, you automatically assume that they know more than you know because they've got the case file and there must be. I had. There had to be something in there that was really pointing them away from him.

[Narrator/Host]

George didn't get his hands on the case file until years later. But by the time he'd read it, this detective decided to pay him a surprise visit. Armed with all the original evidence, this turned out to be a perfect opportunity for George to ask Dennis why he was so focused on the wrong suspect.

[George Jared]

And I'm not kidding you, this guy, this detective snuck into a book signing of mine one time in these cut off Daisy Duke looking shorts, cut off flannel shirt. I mean, like, I'm not going to notice this dude coming in here. I pitch in the book because I didn't recognize him at this point. And then as I said, do you want to buy a book? He's like, he's like, no, I'm Special Agent Dennis Simons with the Oregon State Police. He pulls out his badge, and I looked at him. I'm like, okay, Dennis, I haven't seen you in years, but, you know, come on. And he tells me I can't. I told him, I said, I. I don't understand something here. Why would he clean up the mess? Why wouldn't he just take a match and torch the place? And he said, george, if you had a case file, you know exactly why it this person did this thing. And I'm like, okay, well, we have the case file now. And it's even more incomprehensible.

[Narrator/Host]

This Dennis character sure does remind me of Lieutenant Jim Dangle from Reno 911. Can you picture it? Life imitates art, I guess. Rebecca's case swirled around in George's mind for years, and all the while, it had become a closed loop. He wrote articles about the case and about various theories, but law enforcement was holding all the information under lock and key. They held no press conferences and gave no updates. 14 years passed with no progress. When Rebecca's father tried to request a copy of her autopsy report, officials denied it, citing the case was still active. George kept writing articles. Web sleuths discussed the case to death. And by 2018, a woman named Catherine Townsend hope to put even more eyes on this mystery by doing a podcast. Rebecca was murdered in this woman's hometown, so she traveled back there, lived in the community for six months, and did her own investigation.

[Jen Buchholz]

I first heard about a podcast called Hell and gone in late 2018.

[Narrator/Host]

This is Jen Buchholz. She's a former US army counterintelligence agent who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. She now teaches forensic science at American Military University and works as a cold case investigator for Colorado's El Paso County Sheriff's Office.

[Jen Buchholz]

And it was my content editor at the university who we would go back and forth, sometimes about new podcasts and cases, and sometimes I'd write about different cases. And she's like, you really should listen to Helen Gon. I think you're going to find that case really interesting. Maybe you want to write about it. And so, of course, she was correct. And I binged it, and George was featured in several of the episodes. So I thought, well, I'll reach out to this George guy. He clearly knows a case really well. And so I, like, I very carefully crafted this email to him. Whatever I wrote, which I don't totally remember now, it caught his attention because he called me pretty much right away. And then we ended up on the phone for three hours and 22 minutes, I believe our first conversation. And so it was like, oh, yeah, we're going to work on this case, I think. I don't know. We had very similar mindset was the behaviors that this killer took and the importance of understanding those behaviors and what they meant about the relationship between the killer and victim. Very clear that the detective at the time had no idea about criminal profiling or behavioral analysis. And it was really being overlooked. And that was like one of my key points in reaching out to George. And as you'll hear, he had the same thoughts through the years.

[Narrator/Host]

Jenn Buchholz spent years working as a private investigator before stepping into her current role in cold case investigations. Now embedded within a police department, she sees a sharp divide, maybe even a distrust between law enforcement and civilian investigators. In many cases, police simply won't accept outside help. Again, ego is a hell of a drug. Rebecca's father, Dr. Larry Gould, learned that the hard way. He spent thousands on private investigators over the years. But law enforcement never seemed interested in what they uncovered. Here's Dr. Gould.

[George Jared]

The law enforcement officers that to me are truly the real professionals are the ones that reach out to the public and they ask for help. The ones that reach out and say they don't use their ego. They say, I'm the officer, I'm in charge of this case, Help me now. They're somebody I respect and there's no reason to not be that way. Especially nowadays. There's a lot of unsolved murders that the public can get involved with. There's a lot of the public that loves to get involved with these types of cases because they feel sincerely like they can help and that they can offer something.

[Narrator/Host]

And this is where the Internet proves its worth to some degree, perhaps. I can't believe I just said that. In case after case, it's not a detective who breathes new life into a forgotten file. It's a podcast, it's a subreddit, it's a web forum or a Facebook group or even a TikTok channel where some websleuth, usually a middle aged woman I might add, that has so much time on their hands and so much empathy in their heart that they have to do something with it. So they focus on their favorite hobby. They dig into parts of a cold case that no one ever seemed to be able to uncover, not even Lieutenant Jim Dank. I mean, Dennis.

[Jen Buchholz]

It's a lesson learned by us that can be passed on to other, not just private investigators. Or citizens. But law enforcement agencies too, like keep an eye on social media sites for your victims. See if any of your suspects are in there. Like I do it at work.

[Narrator/Host]

Because sometimes the killer does come back to the scene of the crime. Only in Rebecca's case, the scene was now virtual. There's a moment at the end of the day when everything finally shuts off. The lights are low, the house is quiet, and the only thing that really matters is how comfortable you are. That's what Cozy Earth does so well. Their bamboo sheet set, made from bamboo viscose, is known for its incredibly soft and natural cooling, especially if you sleep hot. The fabric drapes well, gets softer over time, and actually helps you stay comfortable throughout the night. They also make pajamas that feel just as good, designed for those nights when you're not going anywhere and you don't want to rush anything. Cozy Earth backs everything with a hundred night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty, which tells you how confident they are in their quality. You can get 41% off cozyearth.com with promo code sword. So go get comfortable today and use promo code [e-mail] for 41% off. Some people still want a drink at the end of the day, but just not the alcohol part. That's where good feels fits in. Good feels makes THC infused cannabis seltzers designed to be light, consistent and easy to enjoy. No hangover, no heaviness, just a calm, lifted feeling that doesn't take over your night. They're made with natural ingredients and formulated to feel balanced whether you're relaxing at home or out with friends. It's a simple alternative if alcohol isn't doing you any favors anymore. And right now, you can get 20% off at shop getgoodfeels with promo code sword21 and over only, please. That's shop.getgoodfeels.com and use promo code sword for 20% off. By the fall of 2018, Rebecca Gould's case sat unsolved for nearly 14 years. The crime scene had been cleaned, the man she was last seen with had quietly receded into the shadows. And the Arkansas State Police special agent was borderline obsessed with with pinning the whole crime on the wrong guy. But then something shifted. A podcast called Hell and Gone started digging into the case. The show gave the public a voice, and it gave the story new life online. One of the podcast's fans was a former army counterintelligence agent named Jen Buchholz. Another was George Jared, the very reporter who had watched Rebecca's body be pulled from the embankment. When these two connected, they spent hours on the phone. Soon after, they created a Facebook group. The plan was not just to rehash the case, but to solve it once and for all.

[Jen Buchholz]

Well, me and George were the admins, and we set the group settings so that it's a public group. Anybody can find it, but you have to request a join because we always want to keep track of who's joining. So, you know, one of our goals, and I guess, I guess subconsciously one of our goals in making the group was to lure the killer in there or somebody who knew something.

[Narrator/Host]

The Facebook group grew quickly. At this point, neither the police's case file nor Rebecca's autopsy had been made available to the public yet. This meant that the host of the Hell and Gone podcast had to piece the story together using rumors and gossip from people in town. By the time Katherine Townsend aired the final episode of season one, the narrative had shifted away from small town gossip and toward a deeper, darker truth. This was never about random drifters or drug deals. This looked like a crime of passion and a cleanup that took time and work.

[George Jared]

So here's the thing about this case. We don't have a definitive time of death for Rebecca. This is the working theory. The prosecutorial theory about what happened is on that Monday morning, Rebecca takes Casey to work because his father had borrowed Casey's truck the night before. Casey needed a ride. So she drops him off at the Sonic that morning. Then she goes back to his house to collect up all her things. She had a little Pomeranian dog, and she had her clothes, and she brought two big suitcases because she had told her father and her sister Danielle that this was going to be the last time that she came to Casey's house. And so she brought an extra suitcase because she had some personal items over there at the house. And so it's during this time frame that morning when she's collecting of all this stuff, that's when the police and the prosecutors think that she was murdered. And so I will say this, There is absolutely no proof of life on Monday morning. There's none. And for years, we were led to believe that there was a video at a convenience store that she stopped off and got a coffee and a breakfast sandwich. And so we thought there was all this evidence that she was there. The problem is, is that none of that stuff was true. So there's no proof of life Monday morning. But that's the official story.

[Narrator/Host]

Just to fill in some gaps, the day Rebecca went missing, Casey's father Had borrowed his truck. So he was carless and needed transportation to and from work. He worked at Sonic, by the way. We know Rebecca's plan was to quietly pack her things and dump his ass that day, but Casey was clueless about this. Or was he? Did he find out? Was there a subsequent altercation? This is where things get really suspicious and a little messy.

[George Jared]

So he asked a group of four friends, people that he was friends with. He, they were going to go to the movies that night. They were going to go see the movie Resident Evil 2. And so he asked them if he could ride with them. And they were all kind of surprised by it because he was kind of a recluse. He didn't like to hang out with anybody. And so he went down to Batesville that night. They watched the movie, they go into some stores. He was clearly trying to make himself available to cameras that were in, you know, like they went to a Walmart to look at Halloween decorations and they went to some other places and it was clear that he was trying to make himself visible on these cameras. And then at one point in the night he gets a call. And during this call, he used his friend's phone to make this call, by the way. Didn't use his own phone. After he hangs up, he tells all four of these friends that Rebecca is missing.

[Jen Buchholz]

He used his friend's phone to call his own voicemail. So he didn't actually talk to anybody. He listened to his messages, whatever they were, and then got off the phone and told his friends that Rebecca's missing.

[George Jared]

Now here's the problem. She wasn't reported missing until the next morning at 8:30 in the morning by her mother. The second part of it is all four friends and all four of their statements to police said that he was obsessed with her. And I'm paraphrasing this, that he was obsessed with her. And they were all shocked that he wasn't running out the door to go and find her. And so what he did instead is he went to his friend's house, smoked some marijuana, played some video games and fell asleep on the couch.

[Narrator/Host]

Are you suspicious yet, fellow web sleuth?

[William Miller]

She drops you at work and just a little past eight, a little past eight, and I just all I remember saying bye and smiling at each other and waving and that's the last time I saw her back. Did you have any contact with her by telephone? No, sir, I tried. Have you talked with her since Monday morning at 8 o'? Clock? That was the last time I talked to her. You haven't seen her since then? I haven't seen her since. So did you plan on seeing her before she went back? Yes. She was supposed to come back and pick me up from work to go pick up my truck from Batesville. Did she show up? No, sir, she didn't. What time was she supposed to pick you up? 4. And then you came back to Oxford. And anytime since you left there, did you go back to your house at any time that night? No, sir. Did you ever go back there to get some clothing items, a shirt, anything like that? No, sir. Never went back to the house that night? No. No. What time did you leave Oxford, that house, and come to work the next morning? About 7:30. You got to work at 8. And how long did you stay at work? I stayed there for about 10, 15 minutes. I called Rebecca's to see if she had heard from Rebecca because, you know, I haven't yet. And she said she sounded really worried and freaking out. And so I asked my manager, Daniel, if I could go down to the house and see if she was there. Tell me what you find when you get to your house. I drive up and I see her car. So I'm thinking she's there and she's safe inside. And I walk in and I see her dog, which gives me a little bit more. What's the word I'm looking for? Insurance. What's significant about the dog being there? That if she's there, then she and Rebecca's got to be there because Rebecca goes nowhere without that dog. I walked in, I checked our room. I'm gonna call it our room because it is. And.

[Narrator/Host]

Whoa. Did you catch that? Tell me you caught that. We walked into our room. I call it our room because it is. That's what he said. No need to be so defensive there, buddy. We weren't questioning your relationship status.

[William Miller]

No sheets on the bed. Nobody's in there. And I thought it was very odd. No sheets on the bed because she just washed them the week earlier. And I wouldn't say, why should we wash them again? I looked through the whole house again, double back in every room. And I didn't see anything. And I was. Well, appeared to me. I thought I was on the clock because I punched it in, so that thing doesn't work all the time. And so I took off back towards Sonic. Was her car there? Her car was there. Okay. Did you see anything like her slippers or anything like that in the house? Yes, I saw her pink slippers.

[Narrator/Host]

These are all clips from Casey's first interview with Police, he tells them that he never went back to the house that day, the day Rebecca went missing. It was the next morning that he said he drove back home by himself to search the trailer for clues.

[George Jared]

One day I was driving through Melbourne, and I saw him outside smoking a cigarette in the parking lot. This is probably eight or nine months after the murder. And so I just pulled my truck in, got out, and I just confronted him. I said, so tell me what happened. And he told me that he never went back to his house before he went with the police. And so he lied. When we get the case file, not only did he not notice that his room. And I'm not. I don't think I'm exaggerating, it looked like a tornado had gone through his room. I mean, there was stuff broken everywhere. I mean, it was a mirror off kilter off the closet. There were bloody pillows in plain sight. He admitted in his first interview with the police that he did go to the washing machine, open it up, it's full of bedding with blood all over it. The. You know, like the. What's that thing? The agitator. There was bloody water in there. That. Like the bleach dispenser thing was completely caked, caked with blood. And he just puts the lid down, gets in his truck, and drives back to work like nothing happened.

[William Miller]

Did you subsequently go back after your house with the deputy? I asked him, I said, do you just want to follow me? And so I was. And he just followed me all the way there. And when you got there, the police looked in your house?

[George Jared]

Yes.

[William Miller]

I let him freely walk through the house. I showed him that her belongings were still there and how it's very odd that she really never, ever lives without it. And he walked into the back room, checked under the mattress, and found some blood. And I really didn't know where it came from. That's when I started getting really scared. Didn't know what to think. Then after we checked the mattress, he turned around and checked the washer. When we checked the washer, we saw just a little bitty film of something red. We didn't know if it was blood or not, but we noticed. And we tried to put two and two together that, you know, the sheets were on the bed. Let me ask you this, Casey. What do you think has happened to Rebecca? I think she was killed. I don't know who did it.

[Jen Buchholz]

So Monday night is when he tells his friend she's missing and whatever. So Tuesday morning, he had spent the night at his friend's house. He hadn't gone home Tuesday morning, goes to work for a shift at Sonic. Well, for some reason, he didn't have his Sonic shirt, even though he worked the day prior. So his boss is like, you got to go home and get a Sonic shirt. You got to be in uniform. So he was forced to go home Tuesday morning to his residence. And he walks in, you know, her car's there, her purse, her dog. The mattress is flipped. There's bloody sheets in the washer, all this stuff. I mean, broken ashtrays, broken mirrors. And he grabs a shirt and just goes back to work. And then later on, said he didn't notice that anything was amiss, which is impossible. I mean, you can't. After we got the crime scene photos, you're like, yeah, there's no way you could. Like, how would you go in your room? And his bed was moved to cover a big blood stain on the carpet. Like, you can't tell me you didn't notice your bed's in a different position in the room, and it's been stripped and all this stuff. You already said the night prior, she's missing, and you go home to this mess. Why aren't you immediately calling police?

[Narrator/Host]

You know, if the lies, the changing timeline, and Casey's strange behavior weren't bad enough, just wait, it gets worse.

[George Jared]

Well, it's even more suspicious because he confessed to hurting her. He. In, let's see, April of 2010 or 2011. They're not quite sure what year. And so he was working on, like, these towers. He was climbing towers. And he was. One night, he and two other people were in a hotel room. 1. One of them is Tad Hickerson, and he signed us one affidavit to this where they're all in a hotel room, they're drinking. He starts crying and tells them that he hurt Rebecca, that he had hit her with some type of a wooden object, that he had hurt her. And they were. Of course they were. Thought he was just, you know, full of it. They're like, well, the police have cleared you. You know, how could this be possible? And he said that they. The reason that he was getting away with it was because their timeline was off, but they couldn't figure that out. So the next day, Tad still thinks, you know, he was just drunk and crying and feeling guilty and all this other stuff. Well, now they're sober. And so Tad asked Casey, he said, so tell me what happened? And he said that she said something to him. Like, said something, like, mockingly to him. Like, laughed at him. Or scoffed at him, and he just flew into a rage, hit her twice. He said he threw the wooden object, which, you know, we believe could be a piano leg that's, you know, obviously missing. Then he threw it into White River. And that he said, what mistake did you make? And he said, cleaning up the mess by.

[Narrator/Host]

When exactly was the evidence cleaned from the trailer? According to police, Rebecca was killed sometime on Monday, September 18, after she dropped Casey off at work. And Casey had an alibi for that time period. He was working at Sonic all day, then was seen on camera hanging out with friends in the evening.

[Jen Buchholz]

So because of that, he. Casey, was cleared because they assumed she was alive Monday morning, and he was accounted for at work during the hours that they thought she was killed. So he. I mean, Dennis Simons, the detective who was on it for 14 years, that botched it, he did publicly clear him, which is always a mistake. You don't clear anybody. But he did publicly clear Casey. So Casey fell off the radar for most people. I think from that point forward, it.

[Narrator/Host]

Was open and shut. Sherlock and Daisy Dukes had nailed the timeline. Or did he? Jen and George certainly didn't think so. They think Rebecca may have been killed much earlier, perhaps that morning, giving someone plenty of time to erase what couldn't be explained. And that changed everything. If the murder didn't happen when police thought it did, then Casey's alibi wasn't airtight. So fast forward to the year 2019, when fans of the Hell and Gone podcast are in a frenzy, obsessively discussing all these suspicions day and night. Y' all are relentless, I'll tell you. Well, all this chit chat attracts attention to anyone who's interested and also their cats. Do I know my audience, or do I know my audience? The Facebook forum continues to grow and grow, and all of a sudden, a new name starts leaving comments in the forum. A guy by the name of William Miller.

[George Jared]

And he was one of the first people to join our Facebook page when we created it in October of 2019.

[William Miller]

And.

[George Jared]

And there's a girl on our crowdsourcing team who's really good at, like, genealogy, you know, like, she's good at putting family trees together. And as soon as he joined our page, and her name is Miranda, and she immediately told us, she said, hey, this guy's a first cousin of Casey's. And we're like, okay. We didn't think anything of it because he lived in the Philippines. And I think Jen had done a little research on him and figured out pretty quickly that he lived in Aransas Pass, Texas, you know, so we didn't think anything of it. And he was, you know, postulating theories on how she died. And he was very active on the page, and we just thought he was a mole for the family, you know, because what had happened previously, you know, when Helen Gone came out, is these Facebook pages formed and a bunch of family members got on there and people get into these huge fights and they would say all this stuff. And so we just thought, okay, they don't want to join and get into these, you know, brouhaha's. And so they're just gonna send in this first cousin. You know, he's kind of, you know, kind of a weirdo anyway. You could just tell that from his messages and stuff like that. But he's living in the Philippines, he's working on oil rigs all over the world. You know, he flies all over the place. He's a very world traveler, and he made a lot of money, too. And then I. It's. This may be a coincidence, but I just can't believe that it's a coincidence. Casey's birthday is January 16th. So on January 16th of 2020, right before the pandemic starts, William Miller starts sending private DMs to Jen. Now, he had sent me one or two, but I never responded because, I mean, he was Casey's first cousin. So I'm just like, nah, who cares? Of course, Jen is a much more thorough investigator than I am. So she started responding to him and asking him questions.

[Narrator/Host]

At first, William Miller seemed like any other dedicated member of the group. Curious, passionate, maybe a little too invested. But as Jen talked to him, the tone shifted. The conversations were often long, back and forth dialogues. Sometimes William rambled and didn't make much sense. In one message, he claimed he was being targeted by other group members, trying to stir up drama. I am being attacked by a few people. They took pics and sent them to Dennis, and he was one of them to blow up on me. He got more paranoid, even defensive. At one point he wrote, now he talks shit to me. I'm sorry to talk like that, but about to block the guy if he keep it up. Hate to be a grammar Nazi here, but anybody know English these days? Anyway, this guy William seemed like he wanted to be helpful. He wanted to be part of the team. He insisted. Sorry if I sound like I am on Casey's side. Maybe I come across that way, but am not. But behind the scenes, Jen was already putting the pieces together. William wasn't just engaging with the case. He was circling it, fixating on details like gloves, DNA, and forensics. No fingerprints, no DNA. First thing pops in my head is, did he have gloves? Jen's goal was to find out why William was so interested in this case, or at least to see what kind of answer he would give. They knew he was Casey's cousin, and they knew he was being evasive about it, but why?

[George Jared]

And he was lying. He was. He wouldn't. He wouldn't tell her, like, what was the relationship or to the case, like, why was he interested in it? And he just said, podcast. And then she asked him what states he'd been to, and he said 50 of them or something like that. And her and I would talk about him some early on. And then the pandemic hits. And then in September, we found out something very interesting. We did not know that he was in town the weekend of the. Of this whole thing happening. We didn't. We never knew that.

[Narrator/Host]

Even more suspicious, they didn't know that William's mother, Linda, and his brother Jeremy had actually been living in the area at the time of the murder.

[Jen Buchholz]

Like, the family kept that way under wraps, which is so telling. Even Casey and his family never divulged that publicly. So I'm like, why are you hiding that?

[Narrator/Host]

Jen and George both saw the signs. William Miller was quickly moving up their list of suspects.

[George Jared]

Me and Jen are talking one day, and we're just like, this guy could be involved, like, as soon as we found out that he was there. Because our analysis had always pointed towards a male member of the McCullough family. His name is William Miller, but he's as much. He's as much McCullough as the McCulloughs are. He fit the profile. And it was even more interesting with him because he immediately left. It's like your cousin's girlfriend vanishes, and you don't stick around for a day or two to try to help find her. Of course, at this point, we knew Casey hadn't been trying to find her. And then, I'll never forget this, we kept digging on him. And so we're trying to put this together all through October of 2020. And little did we know that the police were on the same track, because we weren't. We weren't communicating to them what we were doing at this point. And they weren't communicating, obviously, with us.

[Narrator/Host]

A new detective had been handling the investigation, and it took him only eight months to get his sights set on William Miller. This detective wanted to get William in an interview room, but knowing that William lived overseas. He called his mother Linda. Just so you know, they're going to be referring to William as Billy, by the way.

[Jen Buchholz]

Hello?

[William Miller]

Hello, this is Linda Miller, and I'm returning your call. Hey, Linda, how are you doing? Doing pretty good.

[George Jared]

Working hard.

[William Miller]

Hanging in there. I didn't know you still worked.

[George Jared]

You still working?

[William Miller]

Yeah, I take care of a little lady that has Alzheimer's.

[Jen Buchholz]

Oh, okay.

[William Miller]

And that can be difficult sometimes. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. I wanted to reach out to you.

[George Jared]

You know, I'm going through this case file, and the.

[William Miller]

I guess the opinion of.

[George Jared]

Of the Arkansas state police is that they're basically wanting everybody re interviewed.

[William Miller]

So I'm going back and I'm going through, you know, all of the documents and. And trying to. Trying to accomplish that.

[George Jared]

And I know that you and Jeremy and Billy were all interviewed back in 2004.

[William Miller]

And, you know, I just wanted to.

[George Jared]

Reach out to you guys and see what. Of course I get. You know, Billy's in the Philippines.

[William Miller]

I probably won't be able to talk to him for.

[George Jared]

I don't know if he's planning on coming back anytime soon or do you know?

[William Miller]

I don't know. Oh, no, you don't know. Things have been crazy with the COVID Right. And you have no idea when Billy might be returning to the states? Not right now. Not when it's all the COVID stuff. So the last. The last time Billy made it home.

[George Jared]

Was sometime last year or.

[William Miller]

I don't know. I mean, I know he does that for. I know he does that. I'm thinking every year.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

Okay, well, if you would, Linda, get with Jeremy and see if there's one day where we're home at the same time.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

Awesome.

[George Jared]

Well, thanks, Linda.

[William Miller]

All right, no problem.

[George Jared]

You have a good day.

[Jen Buchholz]

You too. Bye.

[William Miller]

Bye. That was Linda Miller, October 21, 2020. Should be noted that Billy Miller is currently in Oregon. He returned from the Philippines approximately a.

[George Jared]

Little over a week ago.

[Narrator/Host]

It's entirely possible that William or Bill or Billy was sitting right next to his mother, listening to her lie to the detective about his whereabouts during this call. Just a little bit later, probably after having a team meeting with her sons, Linda called the detective back.

[George Jared]

Hello, this is Linda Miller.

[William Miller]

Hey, Linda.

[George Jared]

How are you? Pretty good.

[William Miller]

I think we got everybody coordinated. We're using it all three this at one time. Oh, really?

[George Jared]

Yeah, I've been busy.

[William Miller]

Well, when's.

[George Jared]

When's Billy coming back in?

[Narrator/Host]

He'll be here November 7th.

[George Jared]

That's when we want to have our Meeting with you. Okay. November 7th.

[Narrator/Host]

Linda Miller and her two sons believed they were heading into just another round of questioning. What they didn't realize was that every word they spoke would be used to dismantle the lie they'd been upholding for 16 long years. Let's talk about something most people don't think about until it's too late. If you drink, even occasionally, you already know how unpredictable the next morning can be. Sometimes you're fine. Sometimes you're not. That's where liqueur comes in. Liqueur makes gummies designed to help prevent hangovers by supporting your body while it processes alcohol. The formula is built around dhm, a compound derived from the Hovenia dulcius tree that helps break down acetaldehyde, the toxic byproduct responsible for a lot of hangover symptoms. They also include milk thistle and prickly pear for liver support, B vitamins and electrolytes to help with dehydration and energy loss, and ginger root to reduce nausea. It's not about masking symptoms. It's about helping your body recover faster. They're easy to take, portable, and practical, whether you're out for the night or having drinks at home. One customer summed it up perfectly. I woke up feeling like I hadn't drank the night before. I've arranged the highest discount they offer. 20% off. Go to liqueur.com that's L I Q U R E.com and use promo code sword at checkout. By the fall of 2020, almost exactly 16 years after her murder, there was a Facebook group rife with theories on Rebecca Gould's case. One of the people offering up ideas was a man named William Miller. Jen Buchholz and George Jared, the two investigators who had taken a personal interest in Rebecca's story, realized pretty quickly that William was Casey McCullough's first cousin. At first, they thought the McCulloch family had sent him in as a spy, someone who could figure out just how much the public knew. But the more that William talked, the higher he moved up their suspect list. Coincidentally, Arkansas State Police were coming to the same conclusion in parallel. On November 7, 2020, detectives finally got William into an interview room. His mother and brother sat in the room next door.

[William Miller]

First off, let me tell you, this is called a non custodial interview, okay? You probably never heard of such a thing, but what that means is you take came up here voluntarily. You're not being detained. You're free to go at any time. That door is not locked. You know, I'm Gonna tell you what I told the police down in Texas when they came and stuff. Yeah. And I'm gonna be honest with you and truthful with you.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

On everything. You know, maybe I saw something that maybe be a key factor in something there and all that stuff. Right, right. So you're an oil field worker. I've been in work in an oil field for 23 years. Right. I remember moving mom up there and then she was moved into that little house. It was a couple miles down the road from grandpa's property.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

Yeah. And you're right, that was about. Your mom's house was about two or three miles from the McCullough trailer where this happened. Okay, so. So I've been in that home and all that stuff in prior to the homicide. Yes. How many times had you been in that trailer? You think? Maybe two, three times. Maybe two or three times. Two or three times and stuff. So she was. Rebecca was killed in September of 04. When was the last time you were in that trailer? You think it was be way before that? Months. Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

William goes on to explain that back In September of 2004, his mother asked him to help her move to Texas with William's younger brother. So he drove up to Arkansas and arrived on Sunday, the same day Rebecca had gotten into town.

[William Miller]

So in the information that was provided to Texas in O4, you said that whenever you showed up in Melbourne that you went and visited family in the small town. So that made it sound like that you were with your mom and that you visited family in the small town. So do you remember going to the grandparents house on Sunday? Because that's what you told investigators in 04. I don't. I can't remember and all that stuff?

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

Do you think that probably, if you said it in 04 that that would probably be more accurate? It probably would be more accurate because we sat there and went and. Because I know that when I came up, I remember going and asking Casey if he could give me a hand helping you move. Helping mom move. Help mom move the stuff into the house. And he was like, hey, I'm too busy. Is that whenever you showed up to Casey's trailer on Sunday? No. Okay. When did you have that conversation with him? When mom moved up there? Three or four months before.

[Narrator/Host]

William claimed that this interaction happened months before. But now that we have Casey's original interview From September of 2004, we can look back and see that Casey told police something different.

[William Miller]

Your cousin, what's his name? His name is Billy. We call him Little Billy. And it's Billy Miller. What? Where does Billy live at? He lives in Texas, and I'm not for sure where. What was he doing up here? He was coming up here to move his mom and his brother back to Texas. So has he already gone back, you know? Yes, he's already gone. I'm pretty sure. Okay, and so I guess he came up and spoke with you just a short period of time that night?

[Jen Buchholz]

Yes, sir.

[William Miller]

That would have been Sunday evening. Mm. Okay. So how long did he stay? About 10, 15. We were at the top, so we just really talked about old times and stuff. Did he come into your house? No, sir. He stayed outside. I was outside. He never came in the house. But Rebecca was on the front porch. He saw Rebecca on the front porch. Did he know that you and Rebecca had dated in the past? Yes. Did he know that y' all were living together? He knew that she visited on the weekends. He stayed.

[Narrator/Host]

Remember, Rebecca arrived at McCullough's trailer on Saturday, September 18th. The police originally thought she was alive on Monday morning. Jen and George think she was actually killed before that, late Saturday night or maybe sometime on Sunday.

[George Jared]

There's a problem, though, with this part of the story, too. Here's the problem. So this was what Casey told people in, you know, when he was interviewed, the police, and then William kind of told a similar story, that he just pulled up into the driveway and, you know, that was it. Well, a couple of weeks after their statements are taken, Casey's asked whose DNA could possibly be in the house. And he gives a list of people whose DNA could be in the house. He lists William and Jeremy, and beside each of them, there's S U N meaning Sunday night, next to each of them. Well, if he never got out of his car, how could his DNA be in the house?

[William Miller]

Obviously, I can't talk a lot about the evidence in the investigation. You know, it's an ongoing investigation. Investigation. But I can assure you that there are items of evidence that there should be no reason your DNA should be on it. You know what I mean? Yeah. We believe investigators with the people that had worked this. We believe that we have the suspect's DNA on a piece of evidence that is very specific and very unique, and nobody else's DNA should be on it. So that's. That's why I'm asking. There's a number of people that have provided DNA voluntarily. Would you be willing to provide your DNA? And it would be a cheek swab. I don't want to take blood or. But the thing is, if I'VE been in that house and all that stuff, my DNA would be in there. You know, if. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna push you or try to put any pressure on you. I didn't take your test and all that stuff, but, you know, yeah, if you're. That's fine.

[George Jared]

I just.

[William Miller]

To me, it's just, you know, yeah, my DNA is going to be in there. A lot of stuff.

[George Jared]

Right.

[William Miller]

Okay.

[Narrator/Host]

Since he was so willing to give up his DNA, a polygraph would be no problem. Right.

[William Miller]

Like I was talking before about polygraphs, you know, almost all of the McCulloughs have been polygraphed. A number of other people had been. You know, that's one. That's a tool that we like to use to. You know, it kind of gives us a pretty good indicator communication of somebody's lying or telling the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, would you be okay with taking a polygraph? I'll just ask you. Yeah, I don't have a problem. You don't have that. You want me to go to Arkansas and take one?

[George Jared]

No.

[William Miller]

I tell you what. Let me holler. I'll call. I'll call the sergeant up here to see. They may have a calligrapher in town. You know, it's a shot in the dark, but.

[Narrator/Host]

Actually, it was the furthest thing from a shot in the dark. This detective had his polygrapher locked and loaded.

[William Miller]

Right. So we're going to review in great detail. All the questions are going to be on the exam. We're going to administer the test. We're going to give you the test. They'll be done in several phases. Then I'm going to evaluate the exam results, and I'll tell you how you did before you leave today. Okay. What do they want? Them. They want to know if you caused the death of Rebecca. Cool. How would you answer that question? How would I answer that? Yes, that. You know, how can you do something when you're in another location? Okay, perfect. So if they were to ask you that on the exam, what would your answer be? No. Okay, perfect. And are you 110% positive? Yes. Perfect.

[George Jared]

You know, you're not going to have.

[William Miller]

A problem, pass the test, you know, if you didn't do it, you didn't do it. And then let's go through the process, and that's what they want to know. Right.

[Narrator/Host]

William sat like a statue in his chair for the duration of the test, answering yes and no questions confidently. When it was over, he didn't have to wait very long to get his results.

[William Miller]

Now, do you think you did? I don't know. So the results on the examination, deception indicated.

[George Jared]

Right.

[William Miller]

So to the questions of, did you. You know, what does that mean by that? Cause you fail the test. I found the test, yes.

[George Jared]

Yes.

[William Miller]

And so my heartbeat felt like it was just beating out of my chest.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

You know, we talked about your DNA being at the crime scene, and you tried to give an explanation as to why your DNA would be at the crime scene. Because your mom gave Claude furniture. They gave furniture and all that stuff and bedding. And you even. You even said that it. It would be reasonable for your DNA to be on the bedding, which is absolutely absurd. No, I didn't say that. Okay. I just said that mom gave furniture and all that stuff. Okay. All right. This is a washcloth that was under the bed that the killer used to clean up. It was wadded up in a ball. Okay? We've got. We've got the killer's DNA on that washcloth. Okay. Would there be any reason for your DNA it shouldn't be. Shouldn't be on there?

[Narrator/Host]

Are you ready to have your mind blown? The detective is lying. His DNA was not on the washcloth. This is just one of the tools in a seasoned detective's tool belt that's used to get a reaction and possibly a confession out of a suspect when there's little else to go on. They were baiting him.

[George Jared]

He got tricked, and it. And it was a gutsy move. I'll give Mike McNeil credit. He got tricked. He got tricked into thinking that his DNA was on a rag that they had found. They were going to do some DNA testing. And they also got tricked into thinking that Rebecca's DNA. What Mike did is he went and found the truck, the actual truck that he. That William Miller owned in 2004. It was somewhere in South Texas. He sent the Texas Rangers down there to take pictures of it. And so Mike has a folder, and this is after William has failed the polygraph test during his interview. And he comes in, he says, well, I've got to share something with you. And he pulls out these pictures of this truck.

[William Miller]

That truck looked familiar.

[George Jared]

Yeah.

[William Miller]

Yeah, that's your truck. Okay. Biological evidence, Billy. Lasts for decades. Blood, skin cells, all kinds of stuff. Okay. All right. That was a really bloody crime scene. What you. What happened? You got blood on the side of your shoe. We got Rebecca's DNA next to the gas pedal in your truck. No question about it. Her DNA's in your truck. So what you have to do is you have to explain to me how that's possible. If you didn't kill her, you know who did. And if you know who did, if you're covering for Casey. Dude, I'm telling you, you have got to come forward right now with what you know.

[George Jared]

And William immediately knows it's his old truck. And he goes, we're gonna get this tested. And whoever killed her is on this rag. Neither one of those things was true.

[Narrator/Host]

But it was enough to scare William into confessing. Still want to be a detective?

[William Miller]

We know what you did. We know how it went down. We've got her blood in your floorboard. You tried to clean up best that you could. Billy, don't drag your mom through this anymore. Don't drag your brother through this anymore. Give. Give the family some peace. It was a freak deal, man. You did not mean to kill her. It happens. It should have never happened, but it did. Okay, so tell me, Billy. Just tell me. Tell me what you did. How it happened. When I speak to my mom outside, you can look at me. And I'm not gonna run off or anything. Listen, let me do this. Let me bring your mom in here and let's talk to her together. If that's what you want to do. I want to talk to her outside. Outside. And I promise to come back in here and tell you whatever you want.

[Narrator/Host]

William Miller had failed his polygraph test miserably. He realized the walls were closing in. And he asked for one last chance to talk with his mother. When he came back into the room, William told police exactly what they'd been waiting to hear. He had murdered Rebecca Gould all of those years ago. It was him. It had always been him.

[William Miller]

Okay. I'll get Jeremy in a minute. We need to have a conversation. I held up my end of the deal. Let's talk. What do you want me to tell you? I want me. I want you to tell me what you did. How it went down. One thing about this is. It's been reeling in your head like a movie reel since it happened. There isn't anything about this that you forgot. I know that because I've been doing this a long time. I'm just going to tell you that I did it. I did it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what I did. You gotta tell me how it went down. I'm just gonna tell you. I kind of blocked it out of my mind in a way to survive. Everybody that I'm associated is a victim of me. Absolutely. A Victim? Absolutely. And I played everybody as a fool. Everybody. I never told anybody but you, right? Now, I remember going into the trailer and stuff, and then it just happened so quick and so fast, and then I freaked out and I. You can't gloss over what happened so fast and so quick. What happened? Where did it happen? You have to tell me these things. If you got evidence on me, you should know that.

[George Jared]

I do.

[William Miller]

I do. Or should I just get a lawyer and all that stuff? No, I'm just asking you that because, you know. Listen, man. You know, I, I, I, I, I'm telling you, you know, I. I'm confessing to you. I'm telling you that I did it. What'd you do, arrest me? What'd you do? You know, Arrest me. What you saying that you said that I killed her by her blood and all that stuff is in there. Then arrest me. I'm confessing. I did it. Billy. You're under arrest for the murder of Rebecca Gould. Okay, okay. Take me to Arkansas. Let me listen. No, that's a whole. We'll get there. I know that, but it doesn't happen the way you want it to happen. It just doesn't. Take me to Arkansas. Do this, do, do that. It doesn't happen that way.

[George Jared]

Here's the thing. You. In the state of Arkansas, you can't. And this is true in a lot of states, you cannot just have a confession. You have to have some other piece of evidence that ties the person to crime. The problem for William is, is that there was a piece of evidence that did tie him to the crime, and that's the missing suitcase. When police arrived the day that Rebecca vanished, there were three things missing. One of her suitcases, the piano leg, and her.

[William Miller]

Okay, but we. I need to know what you did with Rebecca. Where did you put her before you dumped her? I need to know all that stuff. And I know that's not easy to talk about, but we gotta have that conversation. Where did you put her before you dumped her? Where'd you keep her? In the truck. Where in the truck? The back end of the truck. Okay. What was she in? She was in a shirt and undies. No. Did you put her in a trash bag or. No, I didn't put her in. No. What you put her in? There was a blanket and all that stuff. Okay. What was used to cause her injuries. Well, go to Arkansas and I'm going to point out something to you. And then you'll find some certain things that you might be looking for. All right? So you're Telling me right now in November of 2020, there is still physical evidence that has not been found. Yeah, let's go to Arkansas. That will nail them in the coffin, would it? Well, no, I'm telling you. You know, unless somebody picked it up and thought it was trash, but it should be or attack.

[Narrator/Host]

It should be where it's at. Well, that's helpful. Ain't it weird how humans can do inhuman things but not talk about them afterwards? Words too violent for you, Billy? We are a strange species. Indeed.

[George Jared]

For 16 years, they were trying to find this suitcase. Well, William told them where to find the suitcase, and it was in proximity to his mom's old house when she was living in Guyon. It took him about. The search, we estimate, was about three to four hours. But they found the suitcase. The suitcase is weird, though, and there's a reason why it's weird. William says he took it. And William's a. He's not tall, but he's a big, stocky guy. You know, he weighed over 300 pounds. There's only like five, six. And so he took this suitcase and he said he launched it from the highway and it landed like 30, 40 yards away or something like that. And so when it's found, it's open. And all of the bedding. And there's some bedding and there's some clothes, they're all in a pile over here. And There were some CDs in there and all this other stuff. So Jen is at my house one night after we get the pictures of this suitcase. And it was confirmed, you know, it was her suitcase, her stuff. There's only one problem. Think about the physics of throwing a suitcase, okay? If it's all zipped up, you throw it, no problem. But if it was open, then all that stuff would have been scattered all over the place. And all of the. The clothing type items would have long been gone, deteriorated into nothing.

[Jen Buchholz]

They weren't faded. You could see the this is how we know it was camera from Casey's house, is because the plaid on the sheet matches that that was in his washer. And we've actually done our own suitcase experiment. We, one of the local residents in Melbourne went to Goodwill and got two black suitcases. And she. Her backyard has a very similar landscape to where this suitcase was found, with the same types of trees and leaves and obviously the same weather pattern. So what we did is we had her put sheets in one suitcase and zip it closed and just put it out like that. And then the other one, we had her put the Suitcase like Rebecca's was found with it unzipped open. And the sheets, they're not in a neat pile, but they're very close to the suitcase and just laying on top of the leaves. And so she put those sheets out there. This started in December of 2023. And within a few months, those sheets were, like, unrecognizable, deteriorated. And now they're just basically gone. So we, that's how we know, like, Rebecca's suitcase could not have been laying open like that for 16 years. And the sheets look pretty new. So somebody opened that suitcase, but we haven't figured out who yet.

[William Miller]

What would you say to Rebecca's mom? Not true. Sorry. I'm totally sorry. I know that I can't bring her back. I, I. Yes, there was times that I wanted to go to Dr. Gool's office, go to his office and hand him a gun and tell him, but I did, but I was too chicken to do that.

[George Jared]

Like, he gave this confession, gave really no reason as to why Rebecca would, you know, he killed her. But then at his sentencing, he agrees to meet with Dr. Gould afterwards, and he tells a completely different story about how he gave her, that he hit her, but then he gave her cpr, and if they find his DNA on her shirt, it was because he was crying. He keeps telling all these crazy stories that don't make any sense, but, like, with any. Anybody who's lying, there's grain, there's grains of truth in there, and you gotta somehow try to mine them out. Of course, now he claims he had nothing to do with it, in case he did all of it, so.

[Jen Buchholz]

And for listeners who want to waste 11 hours of their life, they can watch his entire interview, polygraph, confession, everything on YouTube.

[Narrator/Host]

William was arrested for Rebecca's murder and eventually took a plea deal that landed him 40 years in the Arkansas Department of Corrections. And like George said these days, William has changed his story yet again. As you might suspect, he and Jen have been in contact with him since his arrest, and he now says that KC murdered Rebecca. He just helped clean up the scene.

[George Jared]

And fun fact, the cleaning supplies that were used to clean up the crime scene were delivered by Linda. And that's verified. She delivered those cleaning supplies. Now, she claims that her brother, that he asked her to pick up certain items for the house, and they were all cleaning items that were used by the killer or killers to clean up the mess in the house.

[Narrator/Host]

No one knows for sure just how much Linda Miller knew about the situation, but it warrants some serious speculation Rebecca's murder wasn't the only secret her son had been keeping, though. The same day he took the polygraph test, failed it, and confessed to the murder. He also confessed to five others, too. That's right. William could be a serial killer.

[George Jared]

What happened was, is he confessed to Rebecca's murder. And of course, then, you know, the detectives are trying to press him, like, hey, we know this wasn't your first rodeo. And so then he confesses to five other murders, but he doesn't give the names of the victims. He did give specific details, though, about how he kidnapped one of these victims from. She was, like, at a pay phone at a convenience store late night. And he gave specific details about how he would trick them. He said it was. Some of them were sex workers. They would think they were about getting ready to have a sexual encounter. And sometimes he would have a strap underneath his. Somewhere in his truck that he could just grab it, wrap it around their neck, and strangle him. I am almost 100% confident that he's a serial killer. And he's done this many times. I just believe it.

[Narrator/Host]

Jen still wavers on whether she agrees with George on this one, but she is 100% sure that William was somehow involved in the murder and disposal of Rebecca Gould.

[Jen Buchholz]

I just. And this. This is the. The tragedy of it, in a way, is that if only the state police had shared a little bit with us and we had known William had been in the state of Arkansas the weekend of the murder, I mean, everything would have been so different from our side the whole time. And then him joining the group, I mean, it. That was a golden opportunity. They're lucky that we're smart and, like, I'm used to running sources and stuff, and we know how to interview or what to say and not to say, because we could have totally screwed the whole thing up and scared him off, and he never would have gone to that interview and confessed. But they also could have used us to try to get information from him if only they would have communicated with us, you know, and that's just what's so frustrating to me about this case. And we're not here to defend William. I am 100% confident he was involved in this whole thing and maybe others, but there are just aspects of the investigation and that and his confession that weren't vetted enough. For instance, his timeline on this murder Monday morning. And they didn't challenge him on any of those details. And just to clarify for listeners, William's DNA and prints were never found in that residence. I'm not saying they're not there. I'm sure his DNA was there somewhere, but they did not have anything else on him except his confession, which had parts that cannot be true. And there's actually a lot of DAs that would not approve an arrest warrant on this.

[Narrator/Host]

It's no wonder this case has held the attention of so many for nearly two decades. It's not just the brutality of what happened to Rebecca. It's the sheer scale of what we don't know. The conflicting timelines, the recycled alibis, the parade of rumors, false leads and players who still haven't been entirely ruled out. William Miller is serving a 40 year sentence for a murder he now insists he falsely confessed to. He continues to beg Jen and George to uncover new evidence that will put Casey or someone else in prison for this crime instead of him. But that ship has sailed. He took a plea deal, he confessed, he volunteered evidence, and in doing so, he gave up almost any chance of appeal.

[Jen Buchholz]

So I've been to visit him three times, and George actually got to interview him and take video of it because he's an official, you know, journalist or. What is it, George? Media member, I guess that got you in. And so I'm just. If he's willing to keep talking to us, I'm not going to give up. Because I feel compelled to not only try to get the truth about Rebecca's case, but also try to figure out if he has other victims. And so I told him this last time, this is just a couple months ago when I went with Jeremy, I said, dude, we're about the same age, and barring some major catastrophe or me getting cancer, like, we're gonna be alive for about the same amount of time and I'm not gonna stop talking to you.

[Narrator/Host]

And in the absence of official help, it's civilians like you and me who are stepping up and finding William's other potential victims. Not ego driven cops and short shorts, regular people like you and me with a moral compass, a strong sense of right and wrong, and a need for justice. People who will not stop asking questions even when officials have long forgotten the case and told you to shut up. Websleuths like this have already been combing through other cold cases across every state William ever set foot in, trying to make sense of what he vaguely blurted out during his police interview.

[Jen Buchholz]

So we can't do it by ourselves. And so we started this project several months ago, and I just called it Operation Rebecca because I didn't know what else. I couldn't come up with anything better, but I have an official signup form. I have a video on our YouTube channel explaining the process of what we're doing, and I just asked volunteers to fill out the form. It's only four questions. Sign up for a state and then watch the video. And then email me once you watch a video and I'll send you the links to the Google Drive folder that has all the information you need.

[Narrator/Host]

We'll post a link to Jen's info in the show notes@sword and scale.com so you too can join the investigative fun. Now where'd I put that magnifying glass again? Anyway, I think this case proves justice doesn't always wear a badge. Sometimes it looks like a true crime podcast enthusiast with a search tab open at 3am and way too much coffee in their digestive system. Get 20% [e-mail] with promo code SWORD, by the way. But as I was saying, sometimes justice looks just like you and just like me. Sometimes it requires a hive of citizens to stand up for justice and collectively uncover what a single mind cannot or will not. It's kind of amazing to see it happen in real time. And next time, maybe, just maybe, you'll be the reason someone's story doesn't end in silence. Sa. YouTube.com Sword and Scale TV is where you can find all three seasons of Sword and Scale Television. It's ongoing new episodes every month. That's gonna do it. Thank you for joining us. Until next time, stay safe.