Alice Carruth (7:59)

I love that. I feel like that's really fortuitous that you went to find an answer for a student and ended up becoming a NASA astronaut. Application and one and done. You're very lucky. There aren't many astronauts that can say that. But I would be remiss not asking about your time in space. You were part of the STS 131 crew. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (8:19)

Yes. Our mission was one of the last shuttle missions, second to last flight of Discovery. And we launched actually about 20 years to the day after I had gone to space camp. I think that's also pretty remarkable. And my crew was just really wonderful. We had four crew members that had already been to space, very seasoned astronauts as our leaders and mentors. And then three of us that were rookies and the three of us had also been classmates. So that's really special too. We were taking up a multipurpose logistics module with other science experiments, Iraq, that specifically protects and allows for more instrumentation that it protected this very pristine window that looks out the lab. And it's called the window observation rack facility for Trekkie fans. It's the wharf. And so we brought that up. We brought up a bedroom or a crew quarter for astronauts. And then of course, like clothing, food, and like I said, several other science experiments. Radio, really, we were helping leave the space station prepared for the next couple months. Right. Because we knew that we would be retiring the space shuttle and then transitioning to a commercial vehicle. But we weren't exactly sure when all of that was going to happen. So we wanted to pre position the space station for the next couple of months. Additionally, we did an ammonia tank swap out. So we took out the. Not really failed, but it was empty. Ammonia tank is supposed to be a reservoir for the lines that help remove heat loads from the space station. And then we installed this new ammonia tank. So that was with a series of spacewalks. And it was just a really incredible 11 days docked at the space station. 15 days in space total.

Alice Carruth (10:30)

What an incredible experience. And I love the fact that you've continued to share that experience with others to inspire the next generation of explorers, which is what brings us together today to talk about the Challenger Centers. Can you tell me a little bit about Challenger center and the learning centers that you guys are part of?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (10:47)

Yes, Challenger Centers are both physical places and then also places that offer many educational opportunities. So let me kind of unpack that. First of all, physically, we have 33 places around the globe we're always trying to grow. And so we have a couple of new centers that will be coming on this year. That's exciting too. At these centers, there are simulators that are very much modeled off of a space station environment. So there's the space station, but there's also the flight control team. So there's also the mission control. And when students come in, they have been already assigned either that they're going to start on mission control or they're going to start in space as astronauts. They may be going to the moon, they may be on Mars, a comet, or they could be repairing some satellites that we have going around low Earth orbit. So there's a couple different types of simulations that we have. And each of these simulation lasts for 90 minutes. About 45 minutes into the simulation, something happens where the crew and the ground swap, which is really special because then students get to be in both roles and really take on both of those aspects. So that's physically what it's like. If you're on the control team, you are talking to Crew members, but you are also working with screens and with different notebooks and different things that help you solve problems. Because of course there's going to be some problems in space. And if you're on the space side, you are conducting your objectives. So you might be the medical doctor and trying to check out the health of the crew, or you might be working on a satellite and actually using a robotic arm. There's lots of different stations around that space station that a student is assigned to and working at. So it's a great way to problem solve, communicate with your team, really take on a role that you're responsible for and take that ownership. It's awesome. Now, I also said we have some remote capability too, and we're calling these satellite missions, but we recognize that it is, it's challenging to get a bus and take a field trip to a Challenger center or maybe get enough car rides there, you know, to get to the center. So for schools that can't do that, or for schools that want some more opportunities, right, like maybe you had this really great hands on opportunity, but you would also like to, to learn more about a different environment and space. Well, these remote opportunities are great too. And again they're facilitated by a Challenger center educator. And then it allows like a whole class to work together or a whole club. We also envision using this with scouts and after school programs. So it's a great way for kids to, we call it a satellite, but it's a great way for them to plug in from a remote area.

Alice Carruth (14:12)

I'm a big fan, as you know, of the Challenger Learning Centers and they know they're aimed at a certain age group. But I remember doing one in Las Cruces a few years back and we opened it up to the public and I had an 8 year old go through the simulation and at the end of it she came out and looked at me and she said, did I just go to Mars?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (14:29)

Exactly.

Alice Carruth (14:30)

What do you think? And she said, I felt like I did. I was like, there you go. And I love that, that they come away with a full experience. And as an astronaut shortly, you must see that all the time in these centers.

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (14:41)

Yes. And she's not the only one that has really believed. And I think that's so wonderful because that is truly the goal is to convey that their work and their abilities are going to grow in this simulator and that they have the capability to do these things, these hard things. So I love that and it's really just rewarding. I also love that I had a chance to like I think about two or three years ago to take my parents and they worked both on the ground and in space and they came away like that was really intense. But you know, for people in their late 70s and early almost 80, it was an opportunity. It pushed them, right. It made them use technology that they don't necessarily feel as comfortable with either. So I like to say they are targeting, yes, a certain age group, but they're really for the young. To the young at heart.

Alice Carruth (15:51)

We'll be right back.

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Alice Carruth (18:03)

Now obviously the Challenger Learning Centre bore out of a disaster that happened that's coming up to the 40th anniversary of when that happened. Could you tell me a bit about the background of how the Challenger center came about and how you got involved in it as well?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (18:17)

Yes. So on January 28th of 1986, the Challenger vehicle was launching seven crew members and they did launch. They were 73 seconds into their flight when this explosion happened and they lost their lives. But their family members knew that this mission was about education. Earlier. About a year and a half earlier, President Ronald Reagan had announced that the first citizen astronaut would be a teacher. And Krista McAuliffe was a high school history teacher and social Studies teacher. So she was on this mission. All of the crew members have extensive education backgrounds as far as their own investments in their own education. And they cared about the mission as well. And so the families, rather than just this being loss and a really tragic loss, they decided to create the Challenger Center. And initially it started out with one. And I've just been reading about the background from Dr. June Scoby's autobiography and I didn't realize like they had worked with Disney and Star Trek and different museums to come together with how do you make a simulator that really truly is going to make 8 year olds and 5th through 8th graders feel like they've gone to space? And so that's what they did. And they of course started with one and then it grew into multiple centers that kind of work like franchises that, you know, use this software and use these simulators that are provided by a core Challenger center that go out to these individual locations. My first opportunity to learn about Challenger Centers was actually when I returned from my flight. So I'd kind of heard a little bit, you know, of buzz about them, but I had never been to one while in my own training and just working at NASA. But when I came back from STS 131, we were touring as a crew and happened to be in Colorado Springs. We were going to the Air Force Academy for our pilot J. Dutton, who graduated there. And this also was where I was born, was in Colorado Springs. So I was glad to be along. And one of our outreach events was going to be at the Colorado Springs Challenger Center. So we pulled up and lo and behold, I was also once again with my parents. They were really excited that I was in Colorado and that's where they live still. And so they had come along for this afternoon piece. And this turns out that the, the old Challenger center was hosted in the same middle school that my dad had taught at. So it was just a really special moment to reflect on that, that this is where my dad's teaching opportunity had started. And then to walk in and see these kids. Now I was really impressed having just come back from space to see even in this case it was considered a kind of an older simulator because a couple of years later Colorado Springs is going to remodel and they have this fabulous center that's completely standalone and in a different location. But at the time I still thought, wow, this is an amazing simulator both from the space side where the students were doing, like I said, things with robotic arms and glove boxes and pretending like they're going out for a Spacewalk and then also on the mission control side. So it was just really neat to see it in action. After I retired from NASA and had been out of the corps for maybe three years, I got a phone call from Kent Rominger, who had been the chief of our astronaut office when I first became an astronaut. And Kent has flown in space multiple times and he asked me if I would join the board. So he was already on the board and, and he wanted to bring me on as a new member. And I had to say yes. I mean, it stands for all the things I care about, right? It stands for education, it stands for space education and stem. And as an educator, I know how valuable hands on experiences like this are. So I said yes. And from then on I have been a member of the board. I've had a chance to be a part of the OR and to chair the education committee. And then this past August, I agreed that I would really like to be the chair elect. So this August I will be with everything still goes as planned. I will be the chair of the Challenger Board.

Alice Carruth (23:25)

Wow. And what a year to be the chair of the board because as we mentioned, we are coming up to that 40th anniversary of the Challenger disaster, but also the 40th anniversary of the Challenger centers set up very quickly after the fact. What is it you've got planned for this year to celebrate 40 years of education and great outreach that you guys have managed to do?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (23:46)

Yes. So already we are announcing the different activities that are coming up. So we have descriptions of each crew member and then lessons that help you identify with that crew member because each of them has something that stands out as pretty unique about them. And so these lessons are now available and live on the website and they're for free, so educators all across the globe can use them. Additionally, we will be doing events throughout the centers that are like synced up. And so those are happening as, as early as next week with the actual anniversary of the Challenger flight, that's the 28th of January. Then we turn right around and in February we're reading across the centers together. And then there's just a series of events that go on throughout the whole year. We wanted to do things that go throughout the year, but that also remind us that what we're doing already is great and we want to keep launching the next generation. So we're not doing one event that's all encompassing, but we're doing these multiple events really to highlight different centers and to highlight the educational experiences that we do. And so I hope that People get online, they start to learn about the seven crew members. It's a great way to reflect. And then it's also an awesome way, like I said, to sign up your classroom and bring them into our centers or sign up for one of these satellite events and then also look forward throughout the the year. Centers will hold STEM days. So I've been multiple times to Michigan, but I know also I have been remotely to Tallahassee. These events happen all around our centers and then also camps. So I know that several of our centers, both for the spring breaks, which vary across states, but also summer breaks, have just incredible opportunities for kids to come in for a day to multiple days and really do some great STEM learning.

Alice Carruth (26:12)

We'll make sure we include a link to the Challenger center website so you can find out more about them all. You're very passionate when it comes to education. I love that about you, Dottie. Why is it you feel the need to help educate others about space?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (26:28)

I feel like I just had really awesome educators. Like I said, both my parents happened to be my first STEM educators. But also I just always felt like my teachers were really passionate about what they were doing too. And from middle school when I had a biology teacher who taught us how to make fuel from our food waste, to my Science Olympiad coach and chemistry teacher in high school, I just really had these great STEM teachers. Additionally, I, I will always love my calculus teacher because he was also my cross country coach. So I think that seeing others teach you like it, it brought out the passion in me. And I just think it's so critical for all of us to, to have as firm of a STEM foundation as we can because we're just globally we are faced with many challenges that have to do with stem. And so you don't have to to want that to be your career. I get that that we need to have lots of different passions, but I do want to make sure that the public is as educated as possible so that they can make important decisions about their own life and and then also influence what's happening in their community.

Alice Carruth (27:48)

And what would you like the public to know about space? What do you think is important for them to be able to know about it?

Dorothy Metcalfe Lindenberger (27:54)

Well, I am thrilled that we are going back to the moon and going in a different way and a way that will allow us to understand it better, but also to probably utilize its resources and then help get us onto Mars. And I love that that's also going to be in February where NASA is targeting Febr Feb 6. And I wasn't alive. You definitely weren't alive, Alice. But our kids are going to get this opportunity to see Artemis too. And really, space is our future. From the technology that we're using right now to make this podcast to the ability to do really complex and difficult things and solve problems in the future, space is going to be at the frontier of that. So I'm really thrilled to see that that coming in just a few weeks.

Alice Carruth (28:59)

That's it for T Miners Deep Space Brought to you by M2K CyberWire we'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapid era changing space industry. If you like the show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app or you can send us an email to space2k.com that's the letter n the number2k.com we're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the nexus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, technology and ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn how@n2k.com N2K's producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our Executive Producer producer is Jennifer Iban. Peter Kilpie is our publisher. T minus regular host is Maria Balmaazes and I'm Senior Producer Alice Carruth. Thanks for listening.

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