T-Minus Space Daily: Cislunar Development

Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Parker Wyschek (Aerospace Corporation)
Panelists:

• Dr. Walter Schroeder (Cofounder & CPO, Cislunar Industries)
• Kelly Kiedis Ogborn (VP, Global Space Programs, Space Foundation)
• Ron Burke (Principal Director, Space Enterprise Evolution, Aerospace Corporation)

Episode Overview

This episode of T-Minus Space Daily centers on the burgeoning field of “cislunar development”—the strategic expansion of human activity, industry, and commerce in the space between the Earth and Moon, including the lunar surface itself. The discussion tackles both the technical and economic aspects of building a sustainable, interoperable ecosystem in cislunar space, emphasizing in-situ resource utilization (ISRU), infrastructure layering, and the critical role of collaboration and digital engineering. The panel explores what it will take to transform cis-lunar space from a region of exploration to one of commercial and industrial vibrancy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Cislunar? The Business Case

• [04:18] Dr. Walter Schroeder outlines the industry perspective on cislunar space:
  • Cislunar Industries is developing hardware for lunar surface operations, focusing on metal processing and recycling for structures and supporting in-space economies.
  • The cislunar economic value isn’t defined by a single opportunity—rather, it includes multiple revenue streams such as resource extraction (e.g., helium-3, oxygen) and spacecraft resupply.
  • Quote:

    “There's not like one, one big north star for the economy I would say, but there are several… If you're looking at the resources on the lunar surface, H3, helium 3, but also any possibilities to resupply spacecrafts...”
    — Dr. Walter Schroeder [04:18]

2. The Role of ISRU (In Situ Resource Utilization)

• [05:15-07:08] ISRU is described as the anchor for lunar economic viability.
• Dr. Schroeder explains Cislunar Industries’ work with DARPA LUNA 10:
  • Their focus: recycling metals left over from oxygen production into other usable forms (rails, structures, manufacturing feedstock).
  • ISRU enables fueling missions, building infrastructure, and reducing dependence on Earth resupply.
  • Quote:

    “When looking at the resources on the moon, you're looking at the things that enable an economy... what can you do with recycled materials or resources that you find on the moon to increase the infrastructure...”
    — Dr. Walter Schroeder [06:03]

3. Defining the Cislunar Economy

• [07:26-09:07] Kelly Kiedis Ogborn highlights the structure and potential of the space economy:
  • 2024’s global space economy was valued at $613 billion across 12 subsectors.
  • Cislunar is viewed as a strategic economic frontier—less about today’s returns, more about building future growth and geopolitical leverage.
  • Investment in shared infrastructure by governments and industry is vital to de-risk technology and attract private capital.
  • Quote:

    “Cislunar is a strategic economic frontier. There's no if, ands or buts around it. And it's because of the enabling infrastructure and the services that it's going to provide...”
    — Kelly Kiedis Ogborn [07:26]

4. Building the Foundation: Infrastructure Layers

• [09:30-11:06] Ron Burke discusses infrastructure as the backbone of cislunar development:
  • There are 12 foundational infrastructure layers (e.g., communications, navigation, power) essential for ecosystem growth.
  • These “utilities” must be robust and sustainable to support broader industrial activities, including ISRU.
  • “The more sustainable and expandable the power is... the more that the other activities and infrastructure layers can grow...”
    — Ron Burke [09:30]

5. Engineering an Economy

• [13:06-15:16] The panel explores how to build a sustainable, functional cislunar economy:

  • Ogborn notes that “seed foundation” in both physical and digital infrastructure is required, followed by real commercial demand and anchor customers.
  • The process must go beyond “if you build it, they will come”—sustainability demands repeatable, viable commercial use cases.
  • Quote:

    “We really need to move past this one-off mission set demonstrations... to true commercial use case and services that people will pay for.”
    — Kelly Kiedis Ogborn [13:37]

• [15:20-16:52] Ron Burke underscores interoperability:

  • 80+ companies are developing for these infrastructure layers, but their efforts are often not inherently interoperable.
  • Engineering the ability to have systems (comm, power, ISRU, logistics) work together is as important as their performance.
  • Quote:

    “They all will be interdependent in an ecosystem environment... There’s an opportunity to engineer the ability for the COMM system and the power system and the ISRU... to work together in a way that is sustainable...”
    — Ron Burke [15:20]

• [17:17-18:51] Dr. Schroeder highlights top-down (government programs) and bottom-up (VC ecosystem) pathways:

  • DARPA LUNA 10 serves as a blueprint for collaborative, cross-company problem-solving.
  • Importance of digital and interpersonal links for collaboration and transaction flow.

6. Trade Spaces & Marketplaces: How to Get There

• [18:51-20:42] The panel identifies three critical needs:
  • A collaboration space for technical and business coordination.
  • A trade space for investors to understand, coordinate, and inform investment strategies.
  • A marketplace for business-to-business transactions, ensuring robust commercial activity.
  • Ogborn notes that siloed approaches won’t scale; coordinated communication is key.

7. Digital Twins & the Loonaverse

• [21:15-23:51] Ron Burke shares progress in digital engineering for cislunar space:
  • After an initial workshop, a community of over 800 participants now explores digital engineering environments (e.g., Digital Synthetic Moon).
  • These environments provide real lunar physics, allowing companies to test and interface systems—including comms, ISRU, and rovers—prior to physical deployment.
  • Quote:

    “What becomes really impactful... is the point at which we have a common digital engineering environment... to be able to interface and interoperate in.”
    — Ron Burke [21:15]

Memorable Quotes & Closing Perspectives

Panelists’ Last Thoughts ([24:26])

• Dr. Walter Schroeder:

  “I would like to see a lot of collaboration on the ground, testing prototypes together, finding digital interfaces together, and also a way to do transactions, because then when the big rockets fly up, you're already set up for success.”
  [24:26]

• Kelly Kiedis Ogborn:

  “It's really just challenging people to have a slight shift in perspective because of the integrated nature of what it is we're trying to build, and particularly why these digital environments are so critical... You're not just now looking for like, adjusted returns and tech success. It's really looking at strategic positioning...”
  [24:43]

• Ron Burke:

  “I'd like to see the investor community... more fully embrace these digital environments for planning and investing and acquiring... and integrating these various capabilities... in a portfolio view... so they are inherently interoperable and result in the core of the economic engine that we'd love to see run strong for a long time.”
  [25:38]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:09]: Episode and panel introduction
• [04:18]: Industry perspective on why cislunar space
• [05:15]: In Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) explained
• [07:26]: Economic overview: space economy, cislunar as a frontier
• [09:30]: Infrastructure layers essential for cislunar development
• [13:06]: Panel addresses “how to engineer an economy”
• [17:17]: Public and private collaboration models for market formation
• [21:15]: Digital engineering, twins, and building the Loonaverse
• [24:26]: Panelists’ closing thoughts & calls to action

Summary Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is optimistic, candid, and solution-minded, blending technical insight with a pragmatic—yet visionary—view of cislunar development. The speakers balance industry enthusiasm with a recognition of the complexity and coordination required; a recurring theme is the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” underscoring cislunar as a new strategic, economic, and industrial domain whose success depends on digital innovation, interoperable infrastructure, and bold public-private partnership. The pressing need for common standards, digital environments, and proactive investor participation is clear—setting the stage for the next decade in the Moon’s orbit and beyond.