Dave (7:24)

Dave here have you ever wondered where your personal information is lurking online? Like many of you, I was concerned about my data being sold by data brokers, so I decided to try DeleteMe. I have to say, Delete Me is a game changer. Within days of signing up, they started removing my personal information from hundreds of data brokers. I finally have peace of mind knowing my data Privacy is protected. DeleteMe's team does all the work for you with detailed reports so you know.

Tim Gagnon (7:56)

Exactly what's been done.

Dave (7:58)

Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up.

Tim Gagnon (8:02)

For Deleteme now at a special discount.

Dave (8:04)

For our listeners today. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com n2k and use promo code n2k at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com N2K and enter code N2K at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com N2k code N2K.

Maria Varma (8:36)

And as I've mentioned at the top of the show, we are at Commercial Space Week here in Florida and today is the kickoff for Spacecom 2025 in Orlando. I got to speak to artist Tim Gagnon who designed the patch for this year's event at the conference, and he walked me through the design process that he goes through with the event planners.

Host (8:55)

Welcome to T Minus Space Daily from Commercial Space Week, and joining me today is a very special guest who I've had the privilege of speaking to several times on the show. This is our first time meeting in person. Tim, please introduce yourself to our audience.

Tim Gagnon (9:08)

Hi folks, my name is Tim Gagnon. I am a graphic and portrait artist living on the Space coast of Florida just in the shadow of Launch Complex 39A. And it's an honor to be here, Tim.

Host (9:24)

It's an Honor for us to have you here, and I'm so thrilled that I finally got to meet you in person. You are one of the people I greatly admire, because, honestly, you have my dream job. I'm not even lying. Tim is many, many things, but he is known to so many of us as the man, the myth, the legend who creates so many patches for space events like this one. And this is the patch that you created for Commercial Space Week this year. It is absolutely gorgeous. So we have often gone through this exercise where we've kind of gone, like, element by element through a patch. So I think we're going to do that as well today. Do we have a good shot of the patch? Are we good? Okay. Excellent. All right, so where should we begin with this beautiful piece of art?

Tim Gagnon (10:02)

Well, the central feature is the three stylized launches.

Host (10:11)

Yep.

Tim Gagnon (10:12)

And what they are designed to do in this patch is represent the close relationship between Civil, Commercial and DoD.

Maria Varma (10:23)

Oh, yes.

Host (10:24)

Makes a lot of sense, because, matter.

Tim Gagnon (10:25)

Of fact, I was in a session earlier today where they had a Venn diagram where those three entities overlap. And so this patch was designed to illustrate that point.

Host (10:38)

Much more dynamic than a Venn diagram, thankfully.

Tim Gagnon (10:40)

Much more. Venn diagrams are nice. They're instructive, but they're not very, you know, attractive.

Host (10:45)

That's very true.

Tim Gagnon (10:47)

The globe is designed to represent how we looked at the Earth before the advent of space exploration. You thought about the Earth. It was a globe on a desk, had the longitudinal latitudinal lines, and you could study the map like every kid did in their grade school. Kids in my age group.

Host (11:08)

Mine as well. So we're in that group together. Yeah. It's on the left side. Yes.

Tim Gagnon (11:12)

And then on the other side is how we think of the Earth after the advent of space exploration.

Maria Varma (11:17)

Yeah.

Tim Gagnon (11:17)

We've all seen the blue marble taken from the moon and other photographs of different various spacecraft of the Earth from space. The stars, the bright stars represent the number of spacecom events.

Maria Varma (11:34)

Oh.

Tim Gagnon (11:34)

This being this year's event. Launching from Florida. And then where integration.

Host (11:41)

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

Tim Gagnon (11:42)

Ignites innovation. And then, of course, the date of the event, the two hidden Easter eggs, I guess you could call them.

Host (11:52)

Oh, I love this.

Tim Gagnon (11:53)

The star in spacecom is from their logo, but it's a stylized representation because you cannot embroider gradients. You can't have that soft glow.

Maria Varma (12:04)

Right, right.

Tim Gagnon (12:04)

So you have to do something that can be stitched. And then the little rocket in Space Congress, that rocket is meant to illustrate the very first bumper rocket launched from the Cape Way back when, in the late 50s.

Host (12:18)

Oh. So that speaks to the space heritage here in Florida.

Tim Gagnon (12:20)

Right?

Host (12:21)

I love that.

Maria Varma (12:22)

Oh, my good.

Host (12:23)

Every time I speak to you, I learn all these little Easter eggs you put in your work. So much love and care. And something that we were talking about before we started chatting was. I was just really curious. I'm going to ask you the same question again.

Dave (12:34)

Sure.

Host (12:34)

About. I think anyone who's ever done embroidery work for a teacher or something knows you can't get anything intricately embroidered like this at just any old place. Can you tell me the information about how you get this made? Because this is quite intricate.

Tim Gagnon (12:49)

Well, I like to use the same company that NASA uses. And actually NASA, the Department of Defense and Scouting all use the same company. It's Conrad Industries, AB Emblem in Weaverville, North Carolina. And they've got the legacy history of doing demanding work for very demanding clients.

Maria Varma (13:12)

Oh, yes.

Tim Gagnon (13:12)

So I knew that they could handle a job like this.

Host (13:15)

It's absolutely beautiful. And all your work, truly. It's always a treat to get one of your beautiful pieces in my hands. This is no exception. You also have so many pieces on your person at the moment.

Tim Gagnon (13:26)

Yeah. Well, Today is the 39th anniversary of Challenger.

Host (13:30)

Yes, indeed.

Tim Gagnon (13:31)

So I always wear this jacket in late January. And it just felt appropriate the first day of Space Congress to wear it.

Host (13:39)

Today to remember those that we have lost.

Tim Gagnon (13:41)

And then we sacrifice on this side.

Host (13:42)

Yes.

Tim Gagnon (13:43)

Challenger in Columbia. These were patches designed for specific clients. The High Flight up on top honors the four astronauts in the Apollo era that died in T38 accidents because they never got officially assigned to a mission. And so they never got the chance to fly in space. But I felt they still needed to be remembered.

Host (14:11)

Right. We wouldn't be here without them.

Tim Gagnon (14:12)

The Apollo 1 patch.

Host (14:14)

Absolutely. Yeah. All these patches are just so beautiful. And it is incredibly important and appropriate that we remember those sacrifices especially well.

Tim Gagnon (14:24)

This kind of an event is actually perfect for that because this event shows that we are still building on their legacies and their sacrifices so that we can be bigger and better and maybe safer in the future.

Maria Varma (14:42)

Let us hope so.

Host (14:43)

And it's a celebration of what their sacrifices have enabled also. So we have to. We must appreciate them. And I'm also. I'm gonna just completely change topics.

Tim Gagnon (14:53)

Sure.

Host (14:54)

I'm so curious what else you're working on right now, because you've always got a number of things that you're working on. Anything you could tell me about?

Tim Gagnon (14:59)

Actually, there is. I have done a lot of work for the Mars Society for different analog missions. If you're unfamiliar and they're not the only organization that do this. Analogs are when a group of people go to a remote spot designed to simulate whether it's a mission to the moon, a mission to Mars, and you follow all the same protocols. For example, if you're on a Mars mission, it's a 20 minute communications delay.

Maria Varma (15:33)

That's right, yep.

Tim Gagnon (15:34)

But since I've done that work for the last 10 years, I have been invited to participate in a Mars analog this spring at the Mars Desert Research Station in Utah.

Host (15:48)

That's amazing.

Tim Gagnon (15:49)

So I finally have designed a patch with my name on it.

Host (15:55)

First of all, congratulations on two fronts. That's gotta be so gratifying.

Tim Gagnon (16:00)

Well, it really is.

Host (16:01)

Oh my gosh, that's so cool that you're doing that.

Tim Gagnon (16:04)

Yeah, well, fingers crossed. That hasn't happened yet.

Host (16:08)

But still, it's coming up soon. What did it feel like to put your name on a patch?

Tim Gagnon (16:12)

It was. Oh, I didn't have any trouble spelling it correctly. I once years and years ago had an astronaut, after I submitted a design for consideration for his mission, send it back to me and said, next time run it by spell check. Well, the funny thing about that is there was a patch designed by Robert.

Maria Varma (16:35)

McCall, very famous illustrator.

Host (16:38)

For people who don't know, extremely famous.

Tim Gagnon (16:40)

He is the legend.

Maria Varma (16:41)

Yes.

Tim Gagnon (16:41)

And he misspelled the name. So when I saw that, I felt a lot better.

Host (16:46)

He did it.

Tim Gagnon (16:46)

If it happens to him, it can happen to anybody.

Host (16:49)

Absolutely. The astronauts, you've gone to space and brought art materials with them. If I had to choose, those are all my favorites. Because to me, that is something I can very deeply connect with. I love that you are doing the same thing with your mission. It's just on a personal level. Just makes me so happy to know that you're doing this.

Dave (17:05)

It's just.

Host (17:06)

It's so wonderful. Sorry, I'm a little bit like, oh my God.

Tim Gagnon (17:08)

So great.

Host (17:11)

Is there anything else that you want to share with the audience? Like you're. Again, this.

Tim Gagnon (17:15)

There's a lot of things in work, but just not a lot I can talk about. That's the, that's the, you know, the agony and the ecstasy of doing this kind of thing.

Maria Varma (17:25)

Yeah.

Tim Gagnon (17:25)

Is that you want to shout it from the rooftops as soon as it happens. But I have a long standing rule that I don't unveil the patch. The client does on their own calendar. They've got a whole plan in place what they're going to do when they're going to do it. And I only received permission to even talk about the analog mission just a little over a week ago.

Host (17:48)

Oh, wow. Wow. The timing's big.

Tim Gagnon (17:50)

I can share the news, but I just can't share a lot of detail.

Host (17:53)

I will just say the patch is beautiful, and then I can't wait for it to be unveiled to the public when it is time and again, congratulations on that. Normally at the end of interviews, I ask for people to give advice to people trying to break into the space industry. I feel like I may have asked you this question before, but I kind of want to get your take on it now, especially that you're going on an analog mission about advice for artists.

Tim Gagnon (18:13)

Because I know, matter of fact, I might have something that I can pull up.

Maria Varma (18:16)

Yeah.

Tim Gagnon (18:17)

Because I try to anticipate what I might get asked.

Host (18:20)

Sure.

Tim Gagnon (18:22)

Back in the early 80s, when I started writing to astronauts in 1973, as you know, and all the responses were very gracious. They appreciated my interest, they appreciated my passion, and. But, you know, inevitably, somebody else got the job. And a lot of times, Robert McCall was the guy that got the job. Well, I found out that in 1979, from, like January through June, he painted that giant mural in the Teague Auditorium at Johnson Space Center. And in the process of doing that, he met with Chris Kraft and everybody. And Chris Kraft at astronaut meetings said, you know, bob would really like to do a shuttle patch. Why don't you guys ask him? And I didn't find out until later, years, decades later, that that was the case. Well, I would get the response from the astronaut. We've already asked an artist, and that artist is Robert McCall.

Maria Varma (19:27)

Yeah.

Tim Gagnon (19:28)

You know, if I have to lose a job to McCall, I'm okay with that.

Host (19:31)

Yes, that's right. What a sentence, by the way. My goodness.

Tim Gagnon (19:36)

But finally, in 82, I write to McCall and I didn't get the advice I wanted. I got the advice I needed. And he said at the bottom of my letter, he hand wrote, to achieve success, evaluate your talents honestly, set your goals realistically, work tirelessly at your art and love every minute of the work. Study the great art of the past, Come back from inevitable failures and disappointments with courage and work relentlessly. So now that's the advice I share.

Host (20:19)

It is evergreen advice. And I think even for people who aren't artists, it's. So much of that applies, it can.

Tim Gagnon (20:25)

Resonate no matter what your passion is.

Host (20:29)

I agree.

Tim Gagnon (20:30)

You never give up. That's the message I tell kids. I started writing astronauts in 1973. I didn't get a yes until 2004. But now, 20 years later, here you are many, many times since, and you.

Maria Varma (20:46)

Are about to become an analog astronaut.

Host (20:48)

And again, I'm just so thrilled for you. It's, like, shimmering through my body. I'm just like. That makes me so happy. I want to know when.

Maria Varma (20:57)

What should people know about what artists.

Host (20:59)

Will bring to a mission like this?

Tim Gagnon (21:01)

Well, we just try to help illustrate what we see so that the public can have a greater understanding of what they're looking at and what they're learning about. Back in the early 60s, I think, 62, NASA instituted an art program, and they invited artists to go to the Cape and go to Houston, where astronauts were training and so forth, and, you know, sketch them, interview them, learn about what they were doing, their missions and so forth.

Host (21:34)

A little bit like NASA socials now. A tiny bit, almost.

Maria Varma (21:37)

Yeah, yeah.

Tim Gagnon (21:38)

And they. Matter of fact, there was one artist that was able to sit at breakfast with the Apollo 11 crew and then go watch them suit up. And all he had was a sketch pad and a ballpoint pen.

Host (21:54)

Those are some of my favorite drawings ever.

Tim Gagnon (21:57)

And the best thing about that is I'm friends with his son. The artist's name was Paul Kelly, and his son Chris portrayed him in the movie First Man.

Host (22:08)

I did not know that.

Tim Gagnon (22:09)

Using the same sketchbook and the same pen.

Host (22:12)

Are you serious?

Tim Gagnon (22:13)

Seriously. Now, when I heard about that from Chris, I was delighted. I was gonna. Even if I didn't like anything about that movie, the fact that he got on camera sketching Neil Armstrong, you know, Ryan Reynolds and all that, that made my day.

Host (22:30)

That just made my day by proxy. That's so cool. Okay.

Tim Gagnon (22:35)

And the fact that he still had his father's sketchbook and pen.

Maria Varma (22:37)

Yes. Oh, my God.

Host (22:38)

And I'm not lying. Those are some of my absolute favorite. Cause they're so. They're loose and expensive. There's so much rhythm in those drawings. Just incredible.

Tim Gagnon (22:44)

Oh, what he did with a pen.

Maria Varma (22:45)

Oh, magic.

Tim Gagnon (22:46)

Oh, my God.

Maria Varma (22:47)

Yeah.

Host (22:48)

Absolutely. I'm sorry. Now I'm getting, like, really into that. But, like, it's magic to see those. Every time I come across them, it just takes my breath away. And just. I'm sure he felt the weight of that moment.

Tim Gagnon (22:56)

Oh, sure he did.

Host (22:57)

And just. But he was fearless.

Tim Gagnon (22:59)

And then right at the walkout, you know, he doesn't walk out with the crew. Cause that's a photographic moment. He's standing out there next to Deke Slayton, and the crew comes out, they get in the van, they're headed to the pad. And Deke Slayton goes, so did you get what you needed?

Host (23:18)

Hope so, because otherwise that moment's gone.

Tim Gagnon (23:20)

So NASA has reinstituted the art program.

Maria Varma (23:24)

Yeah.

Tim Gagnon (23:24)

And that would be a future goal, to be able to participate in something like that.

Host (23:29)

I think you should be top of the line for that, honestly.

Maria Varma (23:31)

And I'll be right behind you.

Tim Gagnon (23:32)

A lot of very good artists.

Host (23:34)

No, there are, there are. It's absolutely amazing, Tim, but I really, I mean, you have been the model of someone who has worked relentlessly hard at this, and you're just like at the top of my pantheon of artists I just really admire.

Tim Gagnon (23:47)

I appreciate that very much.

Host (23:49)

I really love your work and your work ethic also. And just so much about what you do. Just I'm fangirling, I always do this to you, but I just genuinely mean it. And it's just been a delight to speak with you as always. So thank you for taking the time to talk to me today.

Tim Gagnon (24:03)

I enjoyed it very much.

Maria Varma (24:19)

We'll be right back.

Dave (24:26)

Ransomware supply chain attacks and zero day exploits can strike without warning, leaving your business's sensitive data and digital assets vulnerable. But imagine a world where your cybersecurity strategy could prevent these threats. That's the power of the ThreatLocker zero trust endpoint protection platform. Robust cybersecurity is a non negotiable to safeguard organizations from cyberattacks. ThreatLocker implements a proactive deny by default approach to cybersecurity, blocking every action process end user unless specifically authorized by your team. This least privilege methodology mitigates the exploitation of trusted applications and ensures protection for your organization. 247365 IT professionals are empowered by ThreatLocker application allow listing, ring fencing, network control and EDR solutions, enhancing their cybersecurity posture and streamlining internal IT and security operations. To learn more about how ThreatLocker can help mitigate unknown threats in your digital environment and align your organization with respected compliance frameworks, visit threatlocker.com.

Maria Varma (25:48)

Welcome back. If you missed our exciting news last week, we will be rolling out a new segment next month that dives into the experiments that are going on up on the International Space Station's national labor. We'll also cover how to work with the lab and chat about why research in microgravity is a desirable opportunity. The ISS National Lab has released its annual report highlighting the rapid growth of space based R and D. It also shares that nearly three quarters of newly selected projects sponsored for flight were from first time space users. It's certainly a good sign that folks are increasingly looking to space to solve issues both on and off the Earth. The center for the Advancement of Science in Space, also known as casis, has managed the ISS National Lab under a cooperative agreement with NASA since 2011. Casis says that of the 103 ISS National Lab sponsored payloads that were launched to the space station in the last year, 80% were from commercial entities. The lab reported nearly $25 million in external non NASA funding in support of ISS National Lab sponsored projects, with almost half from academic and nonprofit institutions. Additionally, startups secured nearly $147 million in funding after the flight of ISS National Lab sponsored projects, bringing the cumulative total to $2.2 billion. You can read more about their annual report by following the link in our show notes and send any questions you might have to their team to us@spacentuk.com Exclamation and that is it for T minus for January 29, 2025 brought to you by N2K Cyberwire. For additional resources from today's report, check out our show notes@spare.n2k.com we'd love to know what you think of this podcast. You can email us@space2k.com or submit the survey in the Show Notes. Your feedback ensures that we deliver the information that keeps you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. N2K strategic workforce intelligence optimizes the value of your biggest investment your people. We make you smarter about your team while making your team smarter. This episode was produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Heltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our Executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. Our Executive editor is Brandon Karp. Simone Petrella is our president, Peter Kilfey is our publisher and I am your host, Peter Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

Dave (28:27)

T minus.

Tim Gagnon (28:41)

And now a message from our sponsor. Zscaler, the leader in cloud security enterprises have spent billions of dollars on firewalls and VPNs, yet breaches continue to rise by an 18% year over year increase in ransomware attacks and a $75 million record payout in 2024. These traditional security tools expand your attack surface with public facing IPs that are exploited by bad actors more easily than ever with AI tools. It's time to rethink your security. Zscaler Zero Trust plus AI stops attackers by hiding your attack surface, making apps and IPs invisible, eliminating lateral movement, connecting users only to specific apps, not the entire network. Continuously verifying every request based on identity and context. Simplifying security management with AI powered automation and detecting threats using AI to analyze over 500 billion daily transactions. Hackers can't attack what they can't see. Protect your organization with Zscaler Zero Trust and AI. Learn more@Zscaler.com Security.