D (8:29)

Indeed, Maria, there's always plenty to keep us busy. We've included four additional links in today's selected reading section of our show, notes on stories from across the space industry. Sierra Space has completed a critical design review for the Space Development Agency's Tranche 2 tracking layer. Kahan Space has launched a free satellite propagation tool for real time visualization. Canada's University of Alberta has contracted SFL to develop a small satellite to study space radiation. And NASA has awarded a SIBA contract to my old company, Solstar Space, to develop a lunar WI FI system. Congratulations to Brian and the team on that announcement.

A (9:05)

And in addition to finding those links on the podcast platform that you listen to us through, you can find them on our website, which is space.n2k.com just click on today's episode title. We here at T Minus ask a lot of questions, and we bet you do too. Is there something you've been wondering about lately that you just need some answers to? Maybe a particularly confounding new technology concept? Or a hard to decipher bit of governmental regulation that could use some context? Or just like what's the deal with you filled that part in. Dear Listener, I'm sure there's something on your mind and we want to know what are you mulling over? What's the workplace debate of the day? Could be a great topic for us to cover on T minus so tell us about it space2k.com and thank you.

B (10:21)

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A (11:09)

I caught up with Greg Gillinger from Integrity ISR just yesterday for our monthly space intel check. So let's check in on what we're seeing in orbit.

C (11:22)

So September, apparently for whatever reason, has been a month of weird orbits, right? So, or weird launch actually. Launches went fine, but the payloads they sent went into very, very strange orbits. Two in particular that I'm tracking. One was Yaogan 45 and then another was a Xi' an 29. Both of them launched in early part of September. So the Yagan 45 went up and was actually kind of difficult to track from our, our sensors and that it was initially tracked at being in a 7,500 kilometer orbit by about 206 kilometers. So very, very elliptical orbit. Right. So at its greatest point away from the the Earth, it was 7,500 km and at its closest point is about 206. At some point it did a circularization burn and it is now pretty much at its lowest point. It's just under 7,500 kilometers. So it's nearly circular orbit, 20 degrees inclined, but is extremely high for an ISR satellite. So Yagan is, is the Chinese term that they use for what we associate with their, their military related intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance satellites.

A (12:36)

Gotcha. Okay. Yep. Okay.

C (12:38)

So and the statement that China released at the launch of Yaogan 45 was very, is identical to other satellites that they've launched in the past that had imagery missions. So, you know, the closer you are to the Earth, the better resolution your imagery typically can, can have. Right. It's just physics, stands to reason. So.

A (12:56)

Yep, yep.

C (12:57)

So having something at 7,500km above the Earth's surface with an imagery mission is interesting. Now China is unique in that they have imagery satellites in geostationary orbit as well, or geosynchronous orbit in some cases. And they've done that since 2015. So as everyone recalls, geostationary is about 36,000 kilometers above the equator. Since 2015, China's operated satellites with large telescopes that are able to collect imagery of varying resolutions. We think the, the latest one they launched was Yaogan 41, which was launched in late 2023. And there's been some unclassified reporting that it has a resolution capability of anywhere from five meters to two and a half meters, which from that distance is actually incredible.

A (13:48)

Yeah, yeah. My goodness.

C (13:49)

So China does have some experience doing, conducting imagery missions beyond LEO, certainly. So putting this into 7,500km is considered to be in medium Earth orbit. Right. So low Earth orbit extends from about 300 kilometers to about 2,000 kilometers. It's kind of an arbitrary thing, but that's generally the generally accepted location where you go from, from LEO to Mio. And then medium Earth orbit is huge. Right. It goes from 2,000 kilometers all the way up to that geostationary orbit of 35,800 kilometers or so. So this is firmly in NEO and in A, at an altitude and inclination that is not very widely used. There are some communication satellites at about 8,000 kilometers operated by SES and their other 3 billion network. So that's a equatorial orbit at 8,000 kilometers. They've got about 29 satellites. And I think the reason, one of the reasons that very few satellites operate in this region is it's right in the middle of the inner Van Allen belts, which is highly energetic. I'll just say that right there. So there's a lot of proton and electron energy concentrated in that regions. It's usually between 1,000 kilometers to about 12,000 kilometers over the Earth. Right. So this is where the, the Earth's magnetosphere captures a lot of radiation, protects us down here, which is great. But for anything operating in the inner Van Allen belt, it's, it's really challenging. So it's.

A (15:26)

So it's like being on the bumpiest road, I would imagine. And probably does all sorts of fun things to your instrumentation.

C (15:31)

Yeah, Your, your electronics need to be hardened for sure. Right. There was a great deal of concern about how we could get people to the Moon if they had to go through these intervent Allen belts because of the level of energy that's there. So now they've got a satellite that's operating perpetually inside that regime. So it'll be interesting to see how it, how long it lasts. Right. It did go up on A Long March 7A. And in China's press release, they did Note that the 7a had been improved to carry an additional thousand kilograms. So they, they Mentioned that it was capable of carrying over 8,000kg to orbit. So maybe part of that reasoning was they knew it was going to be going to this hostile environment and they put a great deal of shielding in place there. The question I don't know the answer to is, okay, so it's an imagery satellite, we assume, could it be a synthetic aperture radar satellite operating in that environment? Or is the energy level such that that would interfere with any sort of synthetic aperture radar return that you may want to operate. And, you know, synthetic aperture radars have, you know, large antennas that are associated with them. How would they work and, or survive in that sort of an environment? So that's kind of an open question that I'm hoping to get some, some clarification on, but really not sure. So we don't really know the mission of it. It's either optical or synthetic aperture radar imagery. We think operating at 7,500 km does present some challenges in terms of getting high resolution. However, we've seen them do this from higher orbits as well, and they seem to be pleased with it. They keep putting more up operating at that higher altitude. While it does have a trade off with resolution, you do gain in terms of your field of view. Right. And field of regard. So what could your sensor actually look at? Another interesting thing about this launch is that it's inclined 20 degrees, which gives it really good coverage over the. It basically is from northern Australia to the northern part of the Philippines and south of the southernmost point of Taiwan by about 200km. So but at that altitude, be able to image large areas of the Earth if you, if you desire to. Or you could have the capability to image portions of the Earth. Did some calculations. Basically you'd be able to see a third of the Earth not at the same time, but if you were to point your sensor in one direction or another, you would have that in your field of view. So it would be possible to collect some information from pretty much anywhere.

A (18:10)

Would there be any potential significance to that sort of large swing out before the orbit was corrected? And circularized? If that's the right word for it.

C (18:20)

Oh yeah.

A (18:20)

Or is that just a course correction?

C (18:22)

No, I think that's probably a planned. Right. So that's not uncommon with spacecraft going out to GEO as well. They'll do a geosynchronous transfer orbit. So you'll have it go way beyond GEO with a, with an aparigee fairly close to the Earth. It's just a fuel efficient way to get to your higher energy orbits.

A (18:43)

Right. You fall towards the Earth and then just sort of.

C (18:45)

Right, so yeah, you adjust the perigee to increase your apogee and you're able to. I don't know, the astronauts know more about it than I do. But the. It allows you to conserve fuel and get to your desired orbit in the most efficient manner possible.

A (19:02)

I was just wondering for imagery purposes specifically, just would it give you even a wider field of view? Potentially, if there's something that you were. My brain's going, could they be looking at other satellites? Obviously we don't know, but if you're swinging way, way out, you could look at stuff in LEO maybe. Or is that not even.

C (19:17)

That's a great point. Looking at other satellites you could. That's theoretically possible, but you're going to have the same resolution problems there. Right. So. And I was thinking about it from our perspective as well. So if, if, you know, some of our commercial non earth imaging or other non earth imaging satellites want to try and characterize yoga n 45 to see actually what is it? What does it look like? Actually, I think all the imagery satellites I know of are operating below 600 kilometers. So to try and take an image of Yan 45 now, that is at 7500 kilometers. That's an image from, do the math, you know, over 6,000 kilometers, almost 7,000 kilometers away. Right. So you're going to get, you're going to get a dot, right. You're not going to be able to tell, hey, that's a telescope or a, that's a SAR radar or anything like that. So doing a characterization of whatever Yan 45 is is going to be pretty challenging given where it's, where it's at in, in orbit.

A (20:14)

Now that's interesting. I guess we'll keep a, well, a metaphorical or maybe literal eye on that. That's really, really interesting. All right, so we were talking about unusual orbits and listeners. I get a little preview of the talking notes. So I'm not telepathic. I just, I know where Greg's going next. There's a weird orbit, a really weird orbit, or at least weird to me with this next one. Greg, can you tell us about this one?

C (20:34)

All right, so they launched Xi' an 29. What I think the term you're looking for is we call it SuperGeo. So any orbit which is new to me. Yeah, right. So geo, referring to geosynchronous orbits. So any orbit that has a period of about 24 hours. So basically one orbit takes the equivalent of one Earth day. Right. One rotation of The Earth Super Geo is anything within orbital period greater than 24 hours. Right. So and Xi on 29 went out to such, just such an orbit. So currently its apogee is about 400 km greater than the Geo belt and its perigee is about 14 km greater than the Geo belt. And what happens is the Earth is now because it's further away, it's got a longer orbital period, the Earth is spinning faster than the satellite is orbiting. So relative to the Earth's surface, xi on 29 is moving to the west about 5 as of 27 September, about 5 and a half degrees west per day. And it's also has a pretty high incline actually for, for Geo objects, an extraordinarily high inclination. Most geostation. Well actually all geostationary or objects by definition are inclined around zero. Geosynchronous orbits have various inclinations. But 28 and a half degrees is what she on 29 is inclined at. And that is, that is unusual. So the purpose of it is unknown as well. In their statement China released saying it was there for space environmental monitoring, which could mean a number of different things and experimentation. So who knows. What I'm waiting to see is does Xi' an 29 remain in this super synchronous orbit and continue this westward drift? And kind of, if it were to do so, does that suggest more of a, some sort of a inspection mission where you work? Because they're going to be passing everything in the, in the Geo bill. Right.

A (22:38)

Right.

C (22:39)

As they go from west. Right. They're going to eventually circle the globe every 67 days or so at their current drift rate.

A (22:45)

Yeah. It sort of suggests that they're not interested in what's going on on, on Earth. If it's going to be that slow. That, that is interesting, isn't it?

C (22:52)

It's swinging way to the north, away to the south. That, that doesn't really support an inspection mission to, to my knowledge, the way I'm thinking about it.

A (22:58)

Yeah.

C (23:00)

So it's just kind of strange. Now it is possible, you know, lowering a satellite's semi major axis or altitude is not extraordinarily fuel expensive. Right. So they may park this thing over the middle of China and leave it there for an unknown period of time. So that's still in the realm of possible that where they actually placed it into its current orbit. It's been drifting west now for a couple of weeks. It just ended up over mainland China starting on 25th September and will remain so up until early part of October. Assuming they don't change any of the, any of the current orbital parameters. So we watching to see if this thing lowers its average altitude and kind of joins the geo belt or if it continues to kind of march and circle the globe every, every couple of months and you know, depending on the behavior it exhibits, that's what we'll have to use honestly to try and figure out what the mission of this thing might be similar to Yagan 45. This is going to be difficult to characterize as well. So the US operates the Geostationary Space Situation Awareness Program satellites in geo which are there to take images of all sorts of objects in that orbital regime, but they are also close to the geo belts as well. So trying to collect on Xi' on 29, I think it'll be possible, more possible than I think with the Yaguan 45 example, but still quite challenging given the inclination and the drift rate for the the Xi' An 29 satellite. So it'll be interesting to see if if anything comes of that or not.

A (24:42)

Our thanks to Red Gillinger for joining us for our monthly space intel check in. And if you have a question you'd like him to answer, send it on over to us. Space2K.com is our email and we will share your question or thought or idea with him. We'll be right back.

B (25:15)

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A (26:19)

Welcome back. Speaking of check ins, let's do a quick check in on the latest in space health advances with NASA's space health partner Trish. The Translational Research Institute for Space Health, or Trish, is teaming up with the eye tracking platform Harmonize to test an AI powered eye tracking system that is designed to detect cognitive load and fatigue before they become safety risks. And the tool in testing is called H Smart and will be deployed later this year in Antarctica as a proving ground for deep space missions. And the idea here is that by measuring subtle changes in eye movements. The H Smart tool can provide real time monitoring and feedback to help astronauts maintain focus during long duration flights, and the system is unobtrusive, adaptive and designed to deliver immediate insights. All that, of course, is critical for missions where even small performance lapses could have major consequences in space. That makes sense for sure, but also potentially for other high stakes and high stress fields on Earth like aviation and healthcare. And we're looking forward to hearing more about how this validation testing in Antarctica turns out. In the meantime, as we wait, you can listen to my interviews with Dr. Dorit Danuviel, who is the Executive Director of the Translational Research Institute for Space Health, or trish. It was such a fascinating conversation that we actually ran it across two shows and they are on July 8th and 10th of 2025. And in those interviews she tells me all about the work that Trish does and also what translational research in Space Health really means. It's a good question, right? We'll have links to those interviews for you in the show notes so you can sate your curiosity. And that's T minus brought to you by N2K CyberWire. What do you think about T minus Space Daily? Please take a few minutes to share your thoughts with us by completing our brief listener survey and thank you for helping us continue to improve our show. We're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the nexus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, the technology and the ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn how@n2k.com N2K's senior producer is Alice Carruth. Our producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Tre Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our Executive producer is Jennifer Ivan. Peter Kilpe is our publisher and I am your host, Maria Varmazes. Thank you for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

B (29:23)

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