Europe's push for space sovereignty.

Summary

Podcast Summary: T-Minus: Space-Cyber Briefing
Episode Title: Europe’s Push for Space Sovereignty
Date: July 19, 2026
Host: Maria Varmazes
Guest: Ethan Cook (T-Minus Producer, Geopolitics Specialist)
Produced by: N2K Networks

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into Europe's urgent drive toward space sovereignty, focusing on the geopolitical and cybersecurity implications of having independent space infrastructure. Host Maria Varmazes and producer Ethan Cook discuss the parallels between data and space sovereignty, the historical triggers accelerating Europe's efforts (particularly the Ukraine war and U.S. policy shifts), and the practical and political hurdles faced in establishing true independence in space capability.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction to Space Sovereignty & Geopolitical Context

[03:54–05:57]

• The term “space sovereignty” refers to a nation or coalition’s autonomous control over decisions, infrastructure, and enforcement related to their activities in space.
• Ethan’s background in international relations and history brings nuance, focusing on “why” geopolitical shifts happen, not just “what” those shifts are.

“To understand modern politics, you have to understand history...what’s driving the forces, who’s the actors behind it?” — Ethan Cook [04:32]

2. Parallels Between Data Sovereignty and Space Sovereignty

[05:57–11:38]

• Data sovereignty laws (like GDPR) reveal the complexity of cross-border regulation, data storage, and data ownership.
• Modern digital infrastructure resembles the legal gray zones of space: multiple stakeholders and jurisdictional ambiguities.

“You get into this...really complicated legal gray zone of who owns what, who has the right to enforce what.” — Ethan Cook [08:48]

3. The Geopolitical Wake-Up Call: Why Now for Europe?

[11:38–16:17]

• Tensions from Russian actions in Ukraine and growing unpredictability in U.S. foreign policy prompted renewed urgency for European (and UK) self-reliance in space operations.
• Loss of Russian launch capacity (post-Ukraine invasion) and doubts about U.S. reliability highlighted Europe’s vulnerability.

“There is an urgency to data sovereignty, especially within European nations...not just the EU, but Europe and key partners, as well as the UK.” — Maria Varmazes [10:55]

• Ethan calls the 2020s a “facing reality” moment for Europe: what was supposed to be a 10-year plan has had to become a 3-year plan for independence.

“Maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, this is something that’s a 10-year plan.’ And they realize...it’s more like a three-year plan.” — Ethan Cook [13:59]

4. Space Infrastructure as Critical Security

[16:39–20:53]

• Example: Starlink's impact during the Ukraine war. Elon Musk's decisions (independent of governments) over access to Starlink exposed Europe’s reliance on foreign-controlled critical space services.
• The timeline for Europe's own secure satellite networks (e.g., IRIS²) is being repeatedly accelerated.

“If one person in another country can decide that...and this is a service that...everybody is very dependent on...that is a very terrifyingly vulnerable position to be in.” — Maria Varmazes [19:33]

5. EU Space Act: Pillars of European Space Sovereignty

[20:53–23:16]

• Safety: The ability to mitigate space disasters and ensure uninterrupted access.
• Resiliency: Prioritizing cybersecurity of space assets (e.g., lessons from the 2022 Viasat hack in Ukraine).
• Sustainability: Ensuring long-term independence, not just interim solutions.

“For the EU Space Act, they propose three key pillars...the first thing that’s driving them is safety.” — Ethan Cook [21:09]

“We don’t just need to be, you know, independent now, but how do we remain independent for 10, 15, 20 years?” — Ethan Cook [22:38]

6. Practical Barriers: Launch Capabilities & Spaceports

[23:16–29:01]

• Europe faced a year without its own sovereign space launcher (Ariane 5 retired before Ariane 6 was ready), forcing reliance on the U.S. and others.
• ESA and UK agencies are working to build homegrown launch capabilities, but domestic spaceport siting faces local opposition due to noise, risk, and lack of perceived benefit.

“From July 2023 to July 2024, Europe did not have their own sovereign launcher available...for an entire year, Europe was like, ‘We don't have our own rocket to launch things.’” — Maria Varmazes [23:37]

• Launch sites often have to be built in remote locations, limiting accessibility and complicating logistics.
• Local public support is harder to build in Europe than in the U.S., where space programs have had long, effective “propaganda” campaigns resulting in broad cultural acceptance and even pride.

“We have propagandized space in the United States really well, to the point that most Americans...have a generally...positive view of it.” — Maria Varmazes [28:36]

“If you’re an average person...being told that you’re going to have a massive [spaceport] be built in the area that’s going to create a ton of noise...could explode at any time...You’re not going to sell it to the average person.” — Ethan Cook [27:24]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reliance and Vulnerability:
  “If one person in another country can decide that...and this is a service that...everybody is very dependent on...that is a very terrifyingly vulnerable position to be in.” — Maria Varmazes [19:33]

• On European Urgency:
  “Maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, this is something that’s a 10-year plan.’ And they realize...it’s more like a three-year plan.” — Ethan Cook [13:59]

• On the EU’s Pillars:
  “We don’t just need to be, you know, independent now, but how do we remain independent for 10, 15, 20 years?” — Ethan Cook [22:38]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:54] — Start of in-depth discussion; Ethan’s credentials.
• [05:57] — Data sovereignty parallels; introducing European motivations.
• [10:55] — Why the urgency matters now, especially after recent U.S. policy shifts.
• [13:59] — Europe’s timeline acceleration for space autonomy.
• [19:33] — Starlink in Ukraine as a case study in vulnerability.
• [21:09] — The three pillars of the EU Space Act: safety, resiliency, sustainability.
• [23:37] — One-year European launch gap.
• [27:24] — Local opposition to spaceport construction.
• [28:36] — How U.S. cultural “propaganda” makes space spending easier to sell.

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, candid, and peppered with humor and directness about political realities.
• Emphasis on “hard truths” and the complexity of international policy and technological dependency.
• Both speakers balance optimism for European capacity with realism about slow political and cultural shifts.

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What’s Coming Next

• The conversation continues in next week's episode, covering Europe’s external challenges—including India and NATO’s roles—and externalities on the horizon.

“Next week...we’re talking challenges on the horizon and externalities. Where does India fit in all this? And what about NATO?” — Maria Varmazes [29:24]

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Summary Prepared For:
Listeners who want an in-depth, insightful, yet accessible overview of how and why Europe is fast-tracking efforts to be less dependent on non-European space assets, and the security and geopolitical context framing this push.

Transcript

[Maria Varmazes]

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[Ethan Cook]

No one ever wants to say as a country that we're dependent on another country for X or Y. And especially when it's a mission critical thing. The U.S. learned this in the, you know, in the 70s with, with OPEC.

[Maria Varmazes]

Right.

[Ethan Cook]

Maybe relying on oil for another country when our country requires it is not the best thing in the world. And the US has changed its approach and over the past, you know, couple decades has dramatically reduced that international reliance.

[Maria Varmazes]

We're going to just leave Strait of Hormuz out of that entirely. Just, just.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, you know, theoretically, it's all, it's all conceptual.

[Maria Varmazes]

I'm going to be that person's whole show on paper. Welcome, I'm Maria Varmazes and you're listening to T Minus Space Cyber Briefing. In this show we examine the evolution of cybersecurity in the global and orbital infrastructure and that powers, protects and connects our lives. Hi everybody and thank you for joining me. In today's show, I'm talking to T Minus producer Ethan Cook about space station sovereignty. It's a phrase being bandied about quite a bit lately, but what exactly does it mean? Well, who better to dive into the broad ranging details of it all than Ethan, who not only lives and breathes geopolitics, but in addition to being one of our producers here at T Minus, he's also a producer on one of our sister shows here at N2K called Caveat, which is all about cybersecurity law and policy. So this space sovereignty chat gets into lots of geopolitics. There's context of Current events, as well as parallels to data sovereignty, cross border issues of data ownership. Oh, and for some good measure, what's cooking in the EU Space Act's pillars of safety, resiliency and sustainability. Oh, yeah, and this is just the first half of our chat. We'll share the second half with you in next week's episode. There's just that much to discuss. Well, in the meantime, you ready? Let's go. All right, it is time now for my favorite kind of conversation. And that's when I get to chat with producer Ethan Cook. Hello, Ethan.

[Ethan Cook]

Hey, how you doing?

[Maria Varmazes]

I'm excellent now that we get to talk today.

[Ethan Cook]

Wonderful. Yeah.

[Maria Varmazes]

And Ethan, we're gonna be chatting today about something that is so in your wheelhouse. I cannot wait to get your thoughts.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, it's near and dear to my heart.

[Maria Varmazes]

Oh, I know. It's all geopolitics, and this is like, this is your world. So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna pause at the, the topic, but then I want you to tell me a bit about your area of expertise just so we can establish this, because I think our audience should know. So we're going to be talking about space sovereignty, specifically in the context of Europe. That's like our focus area for today, but because this is such a geopolitical conversation. And Ethan, you are my geopolitics guy. Tell me a bit about your area of expertise here. Just so, just so you can brag a bit.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, So I, while I'm not traditionally a, you know, a space geopolitics person, I think, you know, the conversations around geopolitics and politics in general have always been something that I've been fascinated by. And as I've gotten into the space, learning the geopolitics behind this, as a subnote, is like, fascinating. Good. But the, you know, I went to school, my undergraduate degree was in political science, and I have always been focused on international relations within that as well, also in history. And I think, you know, to understand history, you got to understand modern politics, you have to understand history. Um, and the, that is culminates into this passion about not just, you know, what's going on in the world, because I don't really think that matters too much. But the bigger question is why it's going on in the world and what's driving the forces, what's, who's the actors behind it? And not just like what they're doing, but, you know, what is the long term, five year plan with this? Or what in the past five years has caused this policy to emerge. And I think when you look at spacing, especially when you look at the sovereignty conversation that's going on in, you can see very, very clear lines here outside of the space sector, but tangentially related, that have driven this, and have driven this mentality of kind of like an, oh, we're not really as, you know, monolithic as a country in this conversation, as we really want to be.

[Maria Varmazes]

Yeah, well said. Yeah. And so, yeah, Ethan, let's get into that because I'm coming at this as the, like, space current events nerd and also just overall space nerd. So I have a feeling my job here will be to provide like, the wet blanket perspective of like, oh, it's not going as well as we think, or it's going really great. I don't know either one. But let's talk about, I guess, the broader context before we dive into the space angle. I feel like, especially given our world and the world of the cyber wire, we gotta start with data sovereignty and that conversation with Europe. So, I mean, how do you even want to approach that? I mean, that is a massive, massive show on its own.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, that's. I mean, to get into the weeds of that would be. It would take episodes. But, but I think when, you know, you think of sovereignty as even taking the data part out of it, you know, you're thinking of a country's ability to make decisions and enforce those decisions without another country kind of interfering with those things, right? So if the EU says, hey, we want to implement this new data security law, maybe the gdpr, for example, they have the right to do that, and no other country can really stop them or prevent them from enforcing it within their territories. So when we bring that kind of logic to data, it gets a little messy because outside of just people being able to access services and websites in other countries which, you know, they're collecting data and that's now involving a foreign citizen of another country, you also get into conversations regarding data storage. Right? Let's go into, okay, I'm a California resident, right? I live, you know, let's say I live in San Fran, California, really strict data security laws for the US And I access a website that's based in, I don't know, Britain. Right, Britain. I go to them and they have a whole different host of laws, but that data is now hosted and stored in, let's say, Canada for whatever the website is right now, you know, involved three different countries with three vastly different, maybe with some similarities, but data protection laws that all require different things and it gets. And that's just like, that's a clean example, right? Because now you're getting into the conversation of they all sort of agree with each other with, with, in terms of general, you know, protections on data. The questions of who owns that data? Is it Canada because it's stored there physically, Is it the website that maybe is owned and operated and headquartered within the UK or is it the individual citizen who is that person who accessed it? And for years there have been almost like this, I want to call it no man's land of data law, where there has been agreements and nudge, nudge, wink, wink, agreements between different countries, kind of saying like, okay, we're going to try and cooperate on this and figure this out. No one's really taking an outwardly hostile approach, especially between allies. Like, you know, the US and the EU have generally been more favorable in terms of like kind of negotiating these things out. But it kind of. Yeah, maybe not now. Actually there, yeah, the. You get into this, you know, really complicated legal gray zone of who owns what, who has the right to enforce what. And for the most part we've gone through this through bilateral agreements, companies taking proactive stances, probably for their own protection, saying, okay, this is how we define what, who owns this and what has access to. And being very upfront about that and the disgusting terms and services that no one ever wants to read.

[Maria Varmazes]

I was gonna say the legal teams are always very busy. Like the lawyers love this.

[Ethan Cook]

Exactly.

[Maria Varmazes]

Keeps them employed.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, they make a ton of money off of it. And you know, you get into the, you know, that kind of conversational point and it extends far beyond just like website hosting. Let's talk about cloud infrastructure, right? You have AWS or Azure or Google Cloud, which have data centers and hosting platforms across the entire globe. Right. But they're all headquartered in the US So what happens in that. Right. And that was, you know, they have to make individual agreements within a country or you know, to safeguard or say, like, okay, Japan, we're willing to host the data center here or a cloud service hosting platform here. What are the legal regulations that we have to, you know, kind of hop through and make sure that we are abiding by. And all of that is kind of the non space stuff, which is just scratching the very surface of it.

[Maria Varmazes]

But it is remarkably parallel, not just in terms of how complex it is, but I mean, even if we're talking macro, the flavor of it all, I mean that is not a technical term. But if you're just like really zooming out on this, in terms of its complexity, we're talking about the gentleman's agreements in terms of how people are cooperating with each other or the legal agreements and, you know, who owns what, what is in whose domain. What about where things are resting versus where things are in transit? I mean, if we're going to be talking about space sovereignty, it would be silly to not talk about data sovereignty, because they are.

[Ethan Cook]

You can't have the conversation without the other.

[Maria Varmazes]

It's true. It's true. So now that we've sort of chatted a bit about, you know, we've laid the foundation for data sovereignty is very complex. Europe especially, but certainly not only Europe, has a huge renewed emphasis on data sovereignty because of many reasons recently in the last few years, let's just say it, the US Becoming increasingly hostile to our allies. I mean, there's no other way to put it. There is a. There is an urgency to data sovereignty, especially within the, in, within European nations. And I'm not talking just the eu. I'm talking, you know, Europe's Europe and key partners, as well as the UK just sort of generally what we in the United States tend to call Europe.

[Ethan Cook]

For better or for worse, it's all the same. Right, right.

[Maria Varmazes]

And I know, and I know our listeners in the UK are not appreciating that, but I'm just admitting our ignorance on that one. So let's say European, we're American.

[Ethan Cook]

Right. You know, they just chalk it up

[Maria Varmazes]

to that, that, that we're dumb. It's true. So, so when we talk about space sovereignty, it is a largely parallel conversation to me, it's the renewed emphasis on moving away from US Space hegemony because, let's be real, the US has really owned a lot of space access for a long time, and especially when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, Europe had been using a lot of Russian space capabilities. They'd been launching a lot of stuff with Soyuz that went away immediately, understandably. And so with between Russia being out of the picture for European space access and the United States is just not as reliable a partner anymore, the EU and the UK are looking to grow. They're already very capable, let me be clear, very capable homegrown industries. These, these two organizations, both the UK Space Agency or UKSA and the European Space Agency, extraordinarily capable, humongous industries within both areas that have been supporting these for, for decades. So it's not like these are. But there maybe was a sense of we are working as partners with other countries, and now there's More of a sense of we need to stand on our own. The time is now. There's been sort of calls for this for ages, but maybe there wasn't the same urgency that there is today. What are the questions that space sovereignty is trying to address here, especially within the context of UK and European space sovereignty? I mean.

[Ethan Cook]

Yeah, great questions.

[Maria Varmazes]

Yep.

[Ethan Cook]

So I think when you, when you break down, we'll, we'll keep it on the euro front for now because I, I think when you, you, you expanded to Asia, et cetera, you know, there's a whole host of different drivers. But I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about why Europe has kind of had this, I don't want to call it a wake up call because to your point, this calls have been there for a while but I think maybe facing of reality is kind of a better word that maybe they're like, oh, this is something that's a 10 year plan. And they realize oh crap, it's more like a three year plan.

[Maria Varmazes]

Yep, yep.

[Ethan Cook]

Where the, no one ever wants to stay as a country, that we're dependent on another country for X or Y. And especially when it's a mission critical thing. The U.S. learned this in the, you know, in the 70s with, with OPEC. Right. But when, oh, maybe, maybe relying on oil for another country when our country requires it is not the best thing in the world. And the US has changed its approach and over the past couple decades has dramatically reduced that international reliance.

[Maria Varmazes]

We're going to just leave Strait of Hormuz out of that entirely. Just for people,

[Ethan Cook]

theoretically, it's all conceptual.

[Maria Varmazes]

I'm going to be that butt person

[Ethan Cook]

this whole show on paper, but so I think for Europe it applies the same way. Right. They, I think over the past 20 years it's fair to say that space has become increasingly year over year. Not. This isn't something that 20 years ago we went oh crap, this is something we need to focus on. But this is now a now kind of conversation. Twenty years ago we had. And year over year we've begun to sit there and say, okay, space is becoming a really viable commercial and national security enterprise. Right. With missile warning detection systems, commercial satellites for like, let's say GPS. In our previous conversations, et ceter, there's, it's, it's no longer a select few industries there. It is every year becoming a more and more involved space. For pun intended. Not for a pun not intended. But I think with that Europe has sat there and said, okay, we can rely on the US for support here to help us launch satellites, to help us launch infrastructure for technology for defense systems, et cetera. And I think with the kind of us's pivot over the past couple years to a more, you know, isolationist mentality, more, you know, us first mentality that has woken Europe up to this kind of a conversation, that maybe the US is not the person we can rely on anymore. And with that, the pivot has been forced and they have very rapidly doubled down into this pivot.

[Maria Varmazes]

Ah, yes, the pivot. Much like trying to get a sofa around a tight corner, it's what you've got to do. Speaking of things we must do, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[Maria Varmazes]

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[Maria Varmazes]

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[Ethan Cook]

And I think that was what drove the initial conversations of space sovereignty, especially within Europe, this mentality of we are not nearly as independent on this for a ever increasing critical infrastructure sector that we would really like to be. And it was a rude awakening for many factors that just set them. And they sat back and went, okay, we need to start investing. Which is why we have the emergence of not just European projects for launching, but I think with the emphasis on the EU Space act and core legislation that some of which has and some of which has not been passed, but is very clearly Regardless of whether what state it is in, is a reaction to the EU and the UK saying we cannot rely on what we've been relying on for 10 years. We have to, we have to pivot now. Like, this isn't something we can wait on. And I think, you know, for the EU Space act, they, they propose three key pillars and the right away they say the first thing that's driving them is safety. Right. They want to have the ability to mitigate space disasters. They want to have the ability to preserve Europe's access to uninterrupted space. Yeah, they want the second thing resiliency. They want to make sure that their cybersecurity capabilities are a priority. That European space infrastructure. And I think this was probably result of the Ukraine war. They walked away and said, oh, what would happen if viasat happened not just in an isolated area, but across the entire EU?

[Maria Varmazes]

And that's the 2022 Viasat hack. Yep, yes, yep.

[Ethan Cook]

And yeah, like that sitting there going that we can't. Security is not where it should be right now and we're more vulnerable than we really want to be. And that was a rude awakening. And then lastly, sustainability. And this is to that long term conversation saying, how do we, we don't just need to be, you know, independent now, but how do we remain independent for 10, 15, 20 years? How do we get us to the point where, great, we have a, we don't just have a Starling for today, but we have a Starlink for the next 20 years. We're in a position where we don't have to rely on whoever the actor is, whether it's a US actor, a Russian act, a Chinese actor or an EU space. Like saying, even the UK saying while they're both European, they are different nations, they are different governments, saying that we don't have to rely on one another if we don't want to. It's one thing to say this is a great deal for the short term, let's take it, and another to say we have no other choice but to take this deal.

[Maria Varmazes]

Right. And nobody wants to be in that position if they can help it. Yeah, exactly. Those three pillars are really fascinating because I feel like from a space current events nerd, I can, as sort of, as you were doing, I can point to a specific thing that sort of was the spur for each of those pillars. And for the first one that you mentioned about access to space, that one is Aryan space in a nutshell right there. And what I mean by that is ensuring European access to space from 20. From I think July 2023 to July 2024, Europe did not have their own sovereign launcher available. So for an entire year, Arianespace's Ariane 6 rocket was behind schedule and the Ariane 5 had been retired. For an entire year, Europe was like, we don't have our own rocket to launch things. And I think for some people who maybe have not updated their mental paradigm about how often we are as a human race are launching things to space, one year might not sound like a lot if we're still thinking about. Yeah, it is a lot. Like if you're still thinking like it's the 90s or early 2000s and we're using shuttles, maybe that doesn't sound like a lot, but a year is a year. Humongous gap nowadays when we've got SpaceX's Falcon 9 doing over 100 launches a year.

[Ethan Cook]

I mean, and they're delivering dozens of satellites within just one launch. Right. Like it's, it's not just, oh, we're putting one thing up per launch, we're putting up dozens, massive amounts there. So that has an impact. And we're not just taking, again to your point, we're not just taking off one, we're taking off a hundred times that by dozens. We're losing hundreds of satellites every year.

[Maria Varmazes]

Yeah. And a year long delay for a space program, even if, say you are thinking about exquisite satellites like a one off, which again is not generally what's happening, a one year delay causes a huge ripple effect of delays down the line. I mean, it really gums up the works. So part of the sovereignty gap is also Europe does not launch from the European continent. Their, their spaceport is in French Guiana, which is across the Atlantic Ocean from the European continent. So that is, I mean, that is the legacy of colonialism right there, frankly. But Europe is trying to build sovereign launch capabilities within the continent for at least for, you know, smaller launch. They're not gonna, I don't think they're gonna be able to launch like medium to heavy lift from Europe, who knows? But at least for smaller launch, for responsive space missions, they are trying to build out spaceports and getting that capability really within continental European soil, but they still don't really have that. And the same goes for the uk. They had horizontal launch from this place called Spaceport Cornwall. But vertical launch, which is sort of the more classic rocket go up, they don't really have that. And that's a big problem. And a lot of the issues that, you know, both the governments are running into and actually we run into this pretty much anywhere with spaceports is people don't want to live near a spaceport. No, I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't either. I mean, I live in New England and there was talk about putting a spaceport in Maine and that did not go over very well. So, you know, it's very hard to find places people don't want to live

[Ethan Cook]

by data centers, let alone a rocket launch station. Exactly.

[Maria Varmazes]

And you know, cause rocket launches, aside from being noisy and polluting, as clean as they, cleaner as they are compared to how they used to be in like the 60s, I mean, they can go wrong. We're talking about a missile. So you need a lot of empty space. So, you know, it's, you have to build these things nowadays, usually in very remote places. And then of course, you get issues with the infrastructure that's needed to support that, and you need people who are going to be there to support it. It's a very difficult problem. A very difficult problem. You cannot. So, I mean, I've interviewed a bunch of people who are trying to build spaceports, like in the Azores, and there's trying to build spaceports in remote areas of Scotland. And, you know, progress is being made. But almost always a big part of the issue is aside from the physical logistics of it, is sort of the political will and local pushback.

[Ethan Cook]

Well, and I think, you know, you look at space from a localization perspective and when, when, if you're an average person who doesn't really know about space or isn't involved in that, being told that you're going to have a massive project be built in the area that's going to create a ton of noise and some pollution and could explode at any time. You know, you're not going to sell it to the average person, especially when you tell them, oh, what do we get from it? And they're like, oh, nothing much, you know, maybe some jobs.

[Maria Varmazes]

Jobs.

[Ethan Cook]

There's like, you know. Yeah, that's about it, right? Oh, like, oh, they're going to say, oh, we're securing the missile defense system for the nation. Like, okay, cool. Why do you have to do that here? Why can't you go build that tomorrow?

[Maria Varmazes]

It's a hard sell. Yeah, it's a super hard sell. And I, I think even when we talk about this again, because we're talking geopolitics, there's an element of culture here that comes into play. And in the US We've been really great at selling our space program. I mean, we've done some amazing things. NASA's the best. I don't think anybody's ever going to argue with that. And to be very cynical, to use a cynical word, we've had a lot of really great propaganda about our space program, and I hate using it that way, but I mean, it's truly like an academic way of talking about propaganda. We have propagandized space in the United States really well, to the point that most Americans.

[Ethan Cook]

That's why we won the space race, right?

[Maria Varmazes]

I mean, most Americans, even if they don't really care about space stuff, most Americans have like a generally ish, positive view of it.

[Ethan Cook]

I mean, when the latest telescope came out and all the newest images were coming out of space, it was like a whole thing for like a week within the U.S. like, everyone's like, oh, did you see the latest space? Like, people who have never talked about space before that I've met are like, oh, my gosh, did you see the star? I'm like, why? Yeah, you know, what are we talking about here? Right?

[Maria Varmazes]

But that's just think about, like, Artemis, too. Yeah, it's the Culture and Artemis 2, like, Moon Joy and the viral videos of all the. All the astronauts being, like, adorable around the moon. I mean, that was global to some degree, but I mean, there was in the US this was not a hard sell. And I would say in Canada, too. Canada's like, you know, they're our buddy. We still love you, Canada. I hope you love us not so much right now, but I mean, culturally, I mean, ESA and the UK Space agency doing amazing work, but culturally, it is a much, much harder sell. In Europe, people are kind of like, yeah, it's not really our thing. So you have to get a lot. You have to get public support for this kind of thing before you can get that. Everything starts with public support. And if you don't have that, if people aren't jazzed about it, if they don't understand why this stuff matters, you're not going to get funding. And then everything just stops. Foreign. And that's T minus Space Cyber Briefing, brought to you by N2K CyberWire. If you like what you heard today, do not miss next week's episode where we'll share the second half of our space sovereignty chat, where we're talking challenges on the horizon and externalities. Where does India fit in all this? And what about NATO? Yeah, that's next week. And dare I say, you will also enjoy our newsletter, Signals and Space. You will get research and notes pulled together by Ethan Cook and me along with this week's top Space Cyber news stories. Make sure to subscribe by visiting TheCyberWire.com newsletters We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing cybersecurity landscape. If you like the show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app. Please also fill out the survey in the show notes or send an email to space2k.com we are proud that N2K Cyberwire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2N 2K helps cybersecurity professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the nexus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, the technology and the ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn [e-mail] thank you for listening to T Minus. I am your host Maria Varmazes and the show is produced by Ethan Cook and Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our Executive producer is Jennifer Ivan with content strategy by Mayan Plout. Peter Kilpe is our publisher. See you next week.

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