From Goddard’s cabbage patch to Artemis II.

Summary

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T-Minus Space Daily — "From Goddard’s cabbage patch to Artemis II"

Host: Maria Varmazas (N2K Networks)
Guest: Jeff Carr, President of Griffin Communications Group
Date: March 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This special centennial episode reflects on the roots of modern rocketry—marking 100 years since Robert Goddard's first liquid-fueled rocket flight—and looks ahead to the imminent Artemis II mission. Host Maria Varmazas interviews Jeff Carr, a veteran space communicator with unique family and professional ties to the space program, to explore the emotional, historical, and societal parallels between the Apollo era and today, the enduring power of narrative in space exploration, and the need to recapture the public’s imagination for space.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Roots and Evolution of Spaceflight

[00:41–03:35]

• Historical Context: Maria recounts how Robert Goddard’s first liquid-fueled rocket, launched on March 16, 1926, marked the dawn of spaceflight:

  "His first liquid fueled rocket rose a few dozen feet into the air. And with that, Goddard launched an entirely new era." (C, 00:41)

• Canada’s Investment: Maria notes Canada’s new commitment to space at the Nova Scotia spaceport, showing how far the ecosystem has spread since Goddard’s time.

• Perspective: The distance between Auburn, Mass., NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, and Nova Scotia symbolizes the spread and interconnectedness of space activities worldwide.

• Reflection:

  "From that first two and a half second liftoff...to a global network of spaceports and hundreds of orbital rocket launches a year, we are on a clear overall trajectory, aren't we?" (C, 02:25)

2. Guest Introduction: Jeff Carr’s Unique Perspective

[03:35–04:47]

• Personal Background: Jeff grew up as an "Apollo astronaut brat"—his father, Gerald Carr, was an Apollo/Skylab astronaut—giving him front-row access to space history.

• Struggles Beyond the Bubble: Jeff reflects on the dichotomy between the singular focus on the moon within the astronaut community and the profound societal upheaval of the late 1960s in America.

  “Our life was all about the moon. And what was happening outside that bubble was pretty profound. We had a country that was struggling.” (D, 05:15)

• Family Involvement: The space race affected families, not just astronauts, adding personal stakes beyond those in the public view.

3. The Power and Influence of Media

[06:00–07:22]

• Disappointment with Coverage: Jeff’s anger when his father’s Skylab mission’s splashdown wasn’t broadcast live marked a turning point toward recognizing media’s role in shaping American mythos.
• Career Path: Jeff became a television technical director for NASA, bringing together his backgrounds in media and space.
• Media’s Role:

  "I was more affected by the power of the media...their ability to shape the stories that we Americans are...internalizing our mythology." (D, 07:14)

4. Lessons in Character: Remembering Gerald Carr

[08:04–10:14]

• Father’s Career: Gerald Carr trained for Apollo 19, but Congress canceled the mission, a disappointment handled with grace and resilience.

• Skylab and Contribution:

  “It wasn’t the moon walk that he counted on, but it was an opportunity to make a profound contribution.” (D, 09:53)

• Maria’s Acknowledgement: The legacy of Skylab underpins today’s ISS, highlighting the cumulative nature of space progress.

5. Societal Parallels: Apollo 8 and Artemis II

[11:39–15:03]

• Echoes of the Past: Jeff and Maria compare the context of 1968’s Apollo 8 (civil unrest, political drama, national malaise) with the present lead-up to Artemis II.

• Personal Memories:

  "I wasn't fully aware of the depth of despair that so many Americans were living in in the 1960s...Apollo 8 was a pivot point not just for the space program, but for American Pride." (D, 12:20)

• Community Support: The astronaut neighborhoods were tightly knit, supporting each family during major missions.

• Pivotal Moment:

  "I'll never, ever forget when he called the Apollo 8 crew. 'Apollo 8, this is Houston. You're go for TLI. Go for the moon.' And that's when...I really realized that this was meaningful stuff." (D, 14:13)

6. The Power and Importance of Narrative

[15:16–18:37]

• Making Space Matter Today: The Artemis II mission presents new opportunities for collective inspiration, yet struggles with public attention and media saturation.

• Risk and Reward:

  “[Space] is risky, but if you can’t accept and manage risk, you can’t do great things.” (D, 17:36)

• Role for Space Community: Jeff urges industry insiders to share the story of Artemis II, fostering public interest and appreciation, especially among younger generations.

7. Call to Action & Lasting Message

[18:37–19:11]

• Jeff’s Final Thought:

  “Look beyond the frustrations, look beyond the worries of the day during this mission and let yourself be reminded that we are Americans and that means something. And that we can still do hard things. Because if we don’t believe we can do hard things, we’re not going to find our way out of this mess we’re in.” (D, 18:37)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Jeff on Apollo’s influence:

  "Apollo 8 was a pivot point not just for the space program, but for American Pride, 1968." (D, 12:20)

• On narrative power:

  “Their ability to shape the stories that we Americans are...internalizing our mythology...” (D, 07:14)

• On the significance of Artemis II:

  "We're gonna have four humans in a capsule that are gonna dip behind the moon and be out of touch...for 45 minutes. Now, we've only done that once before, and I'm really proud to say that my dad's voice was the last voice that they heard before they went behind the moon. And it was the first voice they heard when they came around." (D, 16:10)

• Advice to the audience:

  “If you can’t accept and manage risk, you can’t do great things.” (D, 17:36)
  “If we don’t believe we can do hard things, we’re not going to find our way out of this mess we’re in.” (D, 19:11)

• Maria's sense of awe:

  “I, like, lose my mind when I think about how amazing that is.” (A, 16:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:41: Centennial introduction—Goddard’s launch & Canada’s Nova Scotia Spaceport
• 04:47: Jeff Carr’s Apollo upbringing & family experiences
• 07:14: Influence of media and legacy of televised space events
• 08:10: Deep dive into Gerald Carr’s career, disappointments, and Skylab leadership
• 11:39: Transition to Artemis II, parallels with Apollo 8, and space in popular imagination
• 14:13: Jeff’s personal memories—his dad’s pivotal role in Apollo 8
• 16:10: Artemis II—carrying four humans behind the moon
• 17:19: How to recapture national imagination and the importance of risk-taking
• 18:37: Jeff’s closing message—hope and national resilience through space

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Tone and Style

• Reflective, personal, and sincere
• Blend of nostalgia, pride, and urgency regarding the space program’s future
• Thoughtful analysis of how past and present are intertwined through the lens of individual, family, and national experience

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Summary

This episode weaves together the story of space exploration’s humble roots and its enduring power to inspire in times of national challenge. Through Maria’s thoughtful questions and Jeff Carr’s deeply personal perspective—grounded in his family's direct involvement in Apollo and Skylab—the episode highlights the essential role of narrative, risk, and resilience in both personal journeys and national progress. As Artemis II stands on the launch pad, the episode calls upon listeners—especially those in the space sector—to be storytellers, to believe in collective capability, and to proudly remind one another: we can still do hard things.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

A century ago, on March 16, 1926, in a quiet farm field in Auburn, Massachusetts, just a bit south of where I'm recording from, in fact, Robert Goddard lit the spark that would carry humanity off of the planet. His first liquid fueled rocket rose a few dozen feet into the air. And with that, Goddard launched an entirely new era. And here we are 100 years later. And that same spirit of experimentation and ambition is still shaping the future of spaceflight. And in fact, this week that future got a major boost. Just a bit to the north of Auburn, Mass. Canada announced a historic investment in its Nova Scotia spaceport space, signaling the nation's bold commitment to expanding its role in global launch capabilities and national defense. Space is no longer the hegemonic domain of just a few nations or a handful of pioneers in a lone cabbage patch. Truly, it is a growing interconnected ecosystem

[A]

and a little fun bit of perspective for you.

[C]

The distance from the field where modern rocketry all began with Robert Goddard's launch from Auburn, Mass. To NASA's Goddard Space Flight center in Maryland is roughly the same distance from Auburn to Halifax, Nova Scotia, this emerging launch hub. And it's the same distance when we're talking back of the napkiny math. Anyway, all in all, it is interesting to me anyway, of how far the space industry has spread while still tracing its roots back to one small spot in Massachusetts, a spot that is now the ninth fairway of a local golf course.

[A]

Of all the things.

[C]

And from that first two and a half second liftoff of a liquid fueled rocket a mere 41ft in the air 100 years ago, to a global network of spaceports and hundreds of orbital rocket launches a year, we are on a clear overall trajectory, aren't we?

[A]

What started as a solitary experiment has

[C]

become the a shared global endeavor that captures the imagination of so many, yours truly included. Today is March 22, 2026. Maria I'm Maria Varmazas and this is T minus. My chat today is with Jeff Carr, who is the president of the Griffin

[A]

Communications Group now, friends, I have to

[C]

tell you, this conversation with Jeff is

[A]

one of my all time favorites that

[C]

I've done here on T minus because Jeff has had an incredible life and career and he tells his stories very well. Now, I don't want to give too much away, but let's just say that there's a good reason. I specifically wanted him to tell me his thoughts on the parallels between the United States and the Space program in 1968 with Apollo 8 and with the upcoming Artemis 2 mission now in 2026. You will hear why in a moment. Here's our chat.

[A]

Hi, it's Maria Varmazes here for T Minus Space Daily. We are at Commercial Space Week in Orlando, Florida. And with me today is someone I've been looking forward to speaking to for quite a bit now.

[C]

Jeff, it is really lovely to get

[A]

to sit down and talk to you today. Thank you for coming in and joining me.

[D]

Thanks for having me. It's a really exciting time in the space program and being at this event really just sort of is generating a sense of anticipation over some of the things that are, you know, on our horizon or near horizon.

[C]

Very, very close.

[A]

On our horizon indeed. So that's what we're here to talk about today. But definitely I want to hear your story before we get into that because it's so relevant to what we're going to be chatting about. So, Jeff, could you tell us a bit about yourself, please?

[D]

Well, I have had incredible good fortune to have had a front row seat to the most amazing human exploration endeavors in history. I was one of the original Apollo astronaut brats. My father was an Apollo Skylab astronaut. We. So we grew up in the Apollo bubble around the Johnson Space center, where our life was all about the moon.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Going to the moon. And what was happening outside that bubble was pretty profound. We had a. We had a country that was struggling.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And you know, our focus was on the mission. When I say our, I mean the families. Yes, you know, it. The astronauts were the leading edge, but the families were very much engaged and we had a job to do as well. So haven't had that opportunity to. And I'm fortunate because I was old enough when my father was an Apollo Skylab astronaut that I understood what was going on. My younger brothers and sisters, not so much.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You know, and I was knowledgeable enough, for instance, to be really angry when the networks made the decision not to cover my father's splashdown live. Right. That was the first, the first Apollo mission, actually. The first mission since Gemini that was not covered live. And I think that moment was a pivot point for me and had a lot to do with where my career, you know, began and took me.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me a bit about your career. There's so much there I want to unpack, but tell me a bit about your career.

[D]

Well, you know, I found myself in 1982, fresh out of University of Texas, as a television technical director for the NASA JSC TV contractor. And so, within just a few weeks of starting at jsc, I found myself sitting in mission control calling shots for NASA TV from the vehicle, from the ground, from, you know, the flight control room. I had never imagined a career in space.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Even though you grew up around it, you didn't think you wanted to go into that.

[D]

Well, I think I was more affected by the power of the media. That interesting, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And what they. Their ability to shape the stories that we Americans are, you know, are. Are internalizing our mythology are what's important. And I was. It just struck me a bit, particularly when, you know, when my father finally flew.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So I think, you know, I don't think I ever planned or expected to have a career at NASA.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But I. You know, the opportunity to use my college degree, my interest in media, and my knowledge of an experience with the space program just kind of presented itself.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, it was.

[A]

Makes a lot of sense.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I want you. Can you tell me about your father a little bit?

[D]

We lost Dad a few years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[D]

He. He was probably the kindest man that I've ever known. He was a Marine fighter pilot, officer and a gentleman. He was a consummate team leader. And he taught me and all the rest of us a lot about, you know, what. What we can really control in life. And, you know, he was. He trained for a long time. He served as the Capcom for Apollo 8 and Apollo 12. And he trained a long time for his mission, which was Apollo 19.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

And Congress lost interest in funding the space program, and they canceled the last two missions of the Apollo program.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So he missed his moonshot. His response to that, the way he conducted himself, the way he shifted his focus and priorities was, to me, an incredible lesson in character.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

He kept his head up. He looked to the next thing coming down the pike. Eventually, Deke Slayton called him into his office and said, jerry, we want you to command the final Skylab mission, all rookie crew. Are you up to that? And he's like, oh, hell, yeah.

[A]

Brave man.

[D]

You know, and there were so many lessons learned through Skylab that have shaped the way we do in space science and long duration space flight. It wasn't the moon walk that he counted on, but it was an opportunity to make a profound contribution.

[A]

Oh, indeed. We wouldn't be where we are today with the ISS without Skylab. Yeah, it's shoulders of giants for sure.

[D]

Foreign.

[C]

We'll be right back.

[E]

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[F]

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[B]

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[A]

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[F]

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[C]

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[C]

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[D]

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[F]

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[A]

We were talking a little bit about your experience and sort of the bubble as a kid and how much that also parallels where we are today and also right now. Artemis II is on the launch pad and we're awaiting its flight and how much of what you grew up and experienced sort of parallels the moment that we're in right now. And you have such a fascinating and unique perspective on that, especially when we think about Artemis's place in the American and global psyche right now, the attention it is and isn't getting. I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on that.

[D]

You know, I wasn't fully aware of the depth of despair that so many Americans were living in in the 1960s. I wasn't as acutely aware of the civil strife, unrest, unhappiness, unhappiness with an unpopular president, unhappiness with a Congress that wouldn't do its job, unhappiness with an unpopular war. Oh, wait, was that then? So a lot of my perspective was kind of, kind of came together later when I was older to look back and understand what was happening in the world. And, you know, in looking at that retrospectively, it really dawned on me that Apollo 8 was a pivot point not just for the space program, but for American Pride, 1968. Yep. Yeah, that was a terrible Year for the United States.

[A]

Yes, it was. Yeah.

[D]

I'm really, really excited that we're going back to the moon.

[A]

Same here.

[D]

It's been too long.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

The. You know, my memories of Apollo 8, I was the same age as Alan and Glenn Anders, and, you know, I spent a lot of time in their backyard, in their house. During the mission. All the astronaut families in the neighborhood kind of came together. When one of them was off to the moon, would you all look up

[A]

at the moon and go, dad's up there? Basically, yeah.

[D]

Yeah. And it was. You know, I was riding my bike home from around the corner from Anders house to our house, and I kind of stopped at the corner and I looked at the moon, and I knew that my dad was in mission control that night. He was the Capcom. So I hustled home and wanted to see the news coverage. And I'll never. I'll never, ever forget when he called the Apollo 8 crew. Apollo 8, this is Houston. You're go for TLI. Go for the moon. And that's when it. I think that's when it really struck me. That's when I really realized that this was serious stuff, this was meaningful stuff, and this was challenging stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And in retrospect, I can look back and see that it was an opportunity to remind Americans that we can do hard things.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And I really Hope to see Artemis 2 kind of engender the same impact,

[A]

that kind of healing a little bit national healing. I'm with you. I hope so, too. When you mentioned the way you felt going back to the beginning of our chat, about when the news did not cover your father's flashdown and how that made you feel. It really stayed with you. I can't help but also think about more broadly right now how much I know a lot of us who are very much into space and thinking about Artemis, too, and going, why are we not hearing more about this? Like, we're going back to the moon, for God's sake. And it seems like nobody cares. And I care. I was not alive during Apollo.

[C]

So for me, this is the first

[A]

time in my life I'm seeing humans going around the moon.

[D]

We're gonna have four humans in a capsule that are gonna dip behind the moon and be out of touch.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Completely out of touch for 45 minutes.

[A]

I, like, lose my mind when I think about how amazing that is.

[D]

Now, we've only done that once before, and I'm really proud to say that my dad's voice was the last voice that they heard before they went behind the moon. And it was the first voice they heard when they came around.

[A]

The best voice to hear right in the right place. That's right.

[D]

So they came back around the moon and entered low lunar orbit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

These guys that are going on, on this, on this flight aren't going to orbit the moon in, in low lunar orbit.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

They're going to, you know, swing around, take a. Yeah, yeah. And so it's a different, you know, there's some differences, but there's just a lot of similarity. Yeah. In, in terms of what it means for the next step.

[A]

Steps. Yes.

[D]

We're going to take as a, as a nation in space.

[A]

How do we recapture the imagination for the American public on this? What have we not done that we should be doing?

[D]

I think there's so much information that it's hard to zero in and find something that matters when you've got so many sources telling you what you should care about.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I think those of us in the space industry have to accept sort of a, maybe a family obligation among us to tell the story to make sure that our sons and daughters and their friends understand, you know, what's going on here. Yeah, it's. It's risky. What we're doing is risky, but if you can't accept and manage risk, you can't do great things.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That we can do hard things, as you said, as a nation, that we

[C]

can do hard things.

[A]

Jeff, this has been one of my absolute favorite chats that I've had in a really long time. I just wanted to tell you and thank you for telling me your story and your father's story. I've been really moved hearing what you've been sharing with me, so I just wanted to say that. Thank you genuinely. And I wanted to make sure that if there's anything you wanted to leave our audience with, any thoughts that we haven't covered, like, by all means.

[D]

I just want to encourage people to look. Look beyond the frustrations, look beyond the worries of the day during this mission and let yourself be reminded that we are Americans and that means something. And that we can still. We can still do hard things. Because if we don't believe we can do hard things, we're not going to find our way out of this mess we're in.

[A]

So well said. Thank you, Jeff. Sorry I'm a little emotional. Thank you, Jeff. Genuinely, thank you so much for speaking with me today.

[C]

I really appreciate it.

[D]

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

[A]

It's gonna stay with me a long time. So thank you very, very much. I really appreciate it.

[C]

And T Minus crew, we are now releasing our show, as you've probably noticed, on a weekly cadence and we are working hard behind the scenes. Still here on what the new T Minus is transforming into and as that work continues, we do want to hear from you about what you'd find useful as we shift to our weekly show format. Space2K.com is our email address. We are reading all of your feedback friends, and thank you to everyone who has written in so far and please keep it coming. Greatly appreciate it. That's T Minus Deep Space brought to you by N2K CyberWire. We'd love to know what you think of our podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. If you like our show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app or you can send an email to space2k.com we're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in

[A]

the public and private sector.

[C]

From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the nexus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, the technology and the ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn [e-mail] N2K's lead producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. Peter Kilby is our publisher and I am your host, Maria Varmazes. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.

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