Alice Cruz (9:36)

Oh, you know, just four additional stories for today, Maria. There's a lot going on right now. Rocket Lab has completed the critical design review of the Space Development Agency's T2TL beta constellation. ESA is eagerly awaiting the MTG, S1 and Sentinel 4 launch this evening. We'll be bringing you more on that on tomorrow's show if it stays on schedule. Teledyne Space in the UK is working with Japan on a climate change mission, and China's Tianwan 2 has shared images of the Earth and Moon.

Maria Varmazis (10:04)

Just a few extra stories there. Please remind us on where we can find out more about them.

Alice Cruz (10:09)

We include links to the original sources of all the stories mentioned throughout the show in the Selected Reading section of our Show Notes. Those links can also be found on the Episode page on our website. Just head to space.n2k.com and click on today's episode title.

Maria Varmazis (10:24)

Hey T Minus Crew. If you are just joining us, be sure to follow T Minus Space daily in your favorite podcast app. Also, please do us a favor and share the intel with your friends and coworkers. Here's a little challenge for you. By Friday, please show three friends or family members or coworkers. This podcast. A growing audience is the most important thing for us and we would love your help as part of the T Minus crew. If you find T Minus useful, please share so other professionals like you can find the show. Thank you so much. It means a lot to me and all of us here at T Minus.

Dave (11:19)

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Maria Varmazis (11:57)

Our guest today is Kirk Koenert, Managing Partner at AE Industrial Partners and Chairman of the Board at Firefly Space. Kirk started by telling me what he does for ae.

Kirk Kohnert (12:11)

I lead the National Security investment team that tends to be focused on anything national security which includes space. And that's a big part of our portfolio and a big part of what we I do on a day to day basis. I'm also the Chairman of Firefly Aerospace. I sit on the boards of York Space Systems, Red Wire Space, Big Bear AI to name a few. I've been doing this for my entire career. I've been at AE for the last 11 years and the last decade's been trying to find the best companies to back in this sort of new defense tech space tech frontier.

Unnamed Interviewer (12:53)

Kirk I can't think of anyone better to Just sort of pick the brain of, in terms of what's going on in national security space right now and just like what your thoughts are on the landscape as it is and maybe how it's changed because it certainly has in the past few years.

Kirk Kohnert (13:08)

Yeah, it's been amazing to see the change in opportunity and just the quality people come into the market, the quality of founders. I mean, look, you take a step back. When we first said, hey, we're going to invest in space, people said, you guys are crazy. What are you doing? We were sitting around a table. We're like, yeah, we think this whole revolution is about to happen. We need to be investing in this sector. So we really built a thesis around there's a new gold rush happening within space. Let's find an investable theme behind that. As a private equity firm, we're a little more risk tolerant than most private equity firms. Space being an example of that. But we still have to convince our investors that these are enduring and resilient businesses. It's been crazy to see the change and the opportunities and obviously the national security. I think space is unique in that it's a new domain, it's a new contested domain. And there's not, relatively speaking, not a lot of dollars going into space. So the Space Force and other organizations within the U.S. government that buy space assets have had to get creative around how they use commercial companies and those technologies to help complete their mission. So that's provided a big opportunity for companies that we've invested in. Firefly is a great example of that. With Landing Moon.

Unnamed Interviewer (14:41)

I'm so curious, given the world that you are in, sort of your attitude about risk and like risk toler. And again, space is capital intensive, risky. You know, a lot of folks who are trying to start up a business are often complaining about how hard it is to get people to invest in them because of that risk. I'm just. Your thoughts on that.

Maria Varmazis (15:01)

What's your philosophy?

Kirk Kohnert (15:02)

There, there is truth. The space is hard, right? It is a tough industry. It's unforgiving. But I think where we've gotten comfortable is that when you back the best people and your vision and mission is aligned, you can get through any, any hard challenge, right? It's hard, but it's also a really rewarding industry, right? We are, we are mission critical to some of the hardest national security problems. We try to convince people and it's easier now. Space is a critical infrastructure for how we live our everyday lives. Right? And if we don't have, we don't have the that access, then your life as you know it changes dramatically.

Maria Varmazis (15:44)

Yeah.

Kirk Kohnert (15:45)

We are focused on finding people who want to be in this industry and want to drive the mission and how we think about risk and our tolerance. Like we're willing to take bold bets. We're willing to take bold bets because we believe we know what it takes and we know where the best places to invest capital and we're able to have better insights than our, maybe our other competitors in investing. We could take seemingly bowler bets, but we have, we believe our models are better. Right. We believe that these seemingly big risks are warranted based on the upside. And I think that's a differentiation that we have.

Unnamed Interviewer (16:30)

I'm so curious, given what you're out there seeing, what you're interested in, what's got you really jazzed right now with what's happening, what's happening in the space markets? Because there's pretty much every day like somebody's coming out of stealth, something really cool is happening.

Maria Varmazis (16:42)

What's got you really like, oh yeah.

Unnamed Interviewer (16:44)

That'S where I'm going.

Kirk Kohnert (16:45)

Where we invest in the life cycle. It's really in the growth, the later stage. Right. So we're seeing are these great companies that were, were funded a few years ago when a pretty tough financing market. They, they were able to, they were sort of the, they had to be really special. Right. They had a really special founder, a really, really special vision. And now we're seeing those companies start to raise Series B, Series C, C rounds. And you know, that's a point where we can invest in those companies and they tend to be in areas that are focused on national security. Right. Where they are solving unique problems for the U.S. u.S. Government, they tend to have some relevance to Golden Dome. I know it's like the hot thing in the press and everything makes sense though.

Unnamed Interviewer (17:41)

It's just logical, honestly.

Kirk Kohnert (17:42)

Yeah, I mean, space is going to have a huge role in that ecosystem. I think a lot of that is a little bit of existing programs that are going to be used for that system. And then there's going to be some new technologies going to be utilized and there's a lot of companies that were sort of again founded a few years ago that are now positioned to win big, big pieces of that, that pie. And I think that's where again, we can step in and provide that capital needed to go scale up for that opportunity. That's where we think we're our special sauces. Like, hey, you got product market fit, you've got this great, great customer. But do you really know how to scale can you deliver dozens of systems a month to the customer? A lot of these companies don't know how to do that. Right. And it's different than like the traditional Silicon Valley venture backed companies where you know they're used to building software and that's really easy to scale. Software development sure. Is scaling hardware development completely different thing and it's a different skill set a lot of, a lot of these founders don't have. That's where we been able to find a lot of success. And then like the new, new stuff I'm really excited about like these new crop of companies coming up. A lot of like you're seeing companies talk about how do we utilize the power from the sun for unique applications and power on terrestrially. I think that those are, those are some really, I think really interesting ideas and it's good to see like mainstream venture capitalists kind of get really excited about space companies. I think that's different than what we've seen in the last five years. I think that's really, that that trend has changed where space and the, and defense are kind of some of the best ideas from you know, from some of these venture venture capitalists. So I think, yeah, yeah. Really excited about what's happening in the market you mentioned.

Unnamed Interviewer (19:36)

I think one of your portfolio companies is Big Bear AI. They're fascinating company that made me think a little bit about you know, AI being the thing that everyone's going okay, but what's real and what's not. And now Big Bear is doing something really cool. Uh, so like what, how do you discern? I mean they're, they're doing something really legit and really important.

Kirk Kohnert (19:55)

You know it's, I think we start with like are these people that are in this company, are they real domain experts? Right, Because I think we're not going to compete against OpenAI, Google, Anthropic. Like, like that's just not their, their, their, their models are, they're going to be way ahead of any, anything that we could ever achieve. So it's really about how do you apply that great technology and powerful technology to the actual domain problems. And that happens from people who have decades of experience within that domain and that problem set. And they say okay, I can hear the technologist tell me about what AI can do for me and then I can apply it to that mission. That's where we see the opportunity. It's really about those people who can then kind of translate that to an actual solution to a problem and there's some great use cases out there, it's accelerating. So it's kind of like I was going to say like next five years, maybe the next like two years, you're going to see some really interesting emerging companies come out of this. Like how do we, these applications, how do we build the killer apps based on these LLMs that can clearly drive solutions for these problems within space. And some of our companies are doing that like Big Bear is doing some of that. Red Wire space is also, so also doing that on the, on some of the space situational awareness and space awareness side where again, the ability to use these powerful AI tools to solve problems that, you know, we've been trying to figure out for a long, long time that'll happen.

Unnamed Interviewer (21:34)

Kirk, I've been really enjoying this. I've learned a lot from you. So thank you. Is there, if there's anything that you wanted to mention as sort of a closeout for the audience, it's open floor for you?

Kirk Kohnert (21:43)

Yeah. No, like I appreciate you having me on. I mean I love talking about national security, I love talking about space. I think the time is now for private capital to invest in this sector. I think it's a once in a generation opportunity. It's a couple trillion dollar market in 10 years and there's a tremendous growth opportunity and I'm betting my credit career on it. And I think it's a tremendous mission.

Maria Varmazis (22:27)

We'll be right back.

Dave (22:34)

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Maria Varmazis (23:49)

Welcome back. Starting this summer, anywhere in the world, when you hear that Netflix tudum sound, you should also think NASA soon. Not exactly precisely when, but NASA says soon you'll be able to stream NASA programming directly on the world's biggest streaming platform. Yep, that would be Netflix. And that means rocket launches, spacewalks, Earth views from the iss, and mission coverage will just be a tap, mouse click, or TV clicker. Press away for Netflix's 700 million global users. This news is part of NASA's ongoing push to reach audiences wherever they are, whether that's a launch pad in Florida or a phone in your hand, literally anywhere. Don't fret if you already have the NASA plus app, and I count myself as one of those people, it's not going anywhere. It'll still be free and ad free. So yes, the next time you're scrolling past true crime documentaries and cooking shows or maybe catching up on squid game or whatnot, maybe a rocket launcher, a Mars rover roving past might also catch your eye. And maybe when the kiddos are looking for cocomelon, they'll opt for a spacewalk instead. Who knows what this move could inspire? And that's it for T minus Brought to you by N2K CyberWire we'd love to know what you think of our podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. If you like our show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app. Please also fill out the survey in the show notes or send an email to space2k.com we're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn, and stay informed. As the nexus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, technology and ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn how@n2k.com N2K Senior Producer is Alice Carruth. Our producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. Peter Kilby is our publisher and I am your host, Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. T minus.

Dave (26:52)

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