Navigating the Arctic Circle with communication satellites.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: T-Minus Space Daily

Episode Title: Navigating the Arctic Circle with Communication Satellites
Host: Maria Varmazes (N2K Networks)
Guest: Dr. Zak Kassas, Professor, Electrical and Computer Engineering, The Ohio State University
Date: January 17, 2026

Overview

This episode explores groundbreaking research into using signals from commercial low Earth orbit (LEO) communication satellites, such as Starlink and OneWeb, as navigation aids in regions where traditional GPS coverage is unreliable, specifically the Arctic Circle. Dr. Zak Kassas discusses his award-winning research, the technical challenges, and the sustainability implications for the future of global navigation systems.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Significance of the Research

• Dr. Kassas (02:20–03:51):
  • Leads the Center for Automated Vehicle Research with Multimodal Assured Navigation ("CARMEN").
  • Focuses on resilient and accurate navigation systems, crucial for safety-critical applications (e.g., aviation, military ops).
• Acknowledgement of the limitations and vulnerabilities of current GPS infrastructure, especially in the polar regions.

Quote:
“GPS is a wonderful system… but the limitations are null. In recent years, it's been extremely vulnerable…especially in safety-critical systems like aviation, like military operations and so on.”
— Dr. Zak Kassas (04:50)

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2. Genesis and Evolution of the Project

• Research started in 2017, foreseeing the expansion ("booming") of LEO mega-constellations (e.g., Starlink, OneWeb) originally designed for broadband, not navigation (03:51–05:48).
• Early experiments with Orbcomm and Iridium paved the way for successful trials with Starlink.
  • 2021: First to demonstrate 10-meter accuracy location determination using only Starlink signals.
  • Demonstrated navigation for ground vehicles, high-altitude balloons (~80,000 ft), UAVs, and most recently, vessels in the Arctic.
  • Recent Arctic trial: navigated a vessel for ~8 km with error in the tens of meters.

Quote:
“We were the first to demonstrate in the world that…you can actually pinpoint your location to within about 10 meters or so with Starlink satellites alone.”
— Dr. Kassas (05:51)

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3. Technical Aspects: Exploiting Communication Signals for Navigation

• These navigation techniques are passive and “opportunistic,” relying on decoding publicly available, non-navigation communication signals (OFDM frames, similar to 4G/5G) (09:26–10:50).
• Biggest technical hurdles:
  1. Signal Decoding: The specifics of what Starlink and other constellations transmit are not public; the research involved reverse-engineering these signals.
  2. Satellite Position Uncertainty: Precise, real-time satellite location data (ephemeris) are proprietary; public information is coarse and inconsistently updated.
  3. Synchronization: They use only synchronization sequences (not data traffic or customer-sensitive data) to derive positioning.

Quote:
“We are only listening to what we call synchro. We are not listening to data traffic, nor do we have that capability or interest. We’re listening to synchronization sequences that are out there that allow us to navigate.”
— Dr. Kassas (21:23)

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4. Results From the Arctic Trials

• Discovery: Starlink signals in the Arctic are not only usable for navigation, but technically “more beautiful” (cleaner, more robust) than in other regions (07:59–08:02).
• Arctic is of unique geopolitical and security significance; GPS coverage here is limited (07:05–07:37).
• Demonstration proves LEO constellations enable resilient navigation in GPS-challenged zones.

Quote:
“To our surprise, they were not only useful, they are actually more beautiful … than many places where we tested this.”
— Dr. Kassas (08:02)

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5. Implications for Resilience & Future of Navigation

• Current Problems:
  • GPS is increasingly vulnerable to jamming/spoofing (13:32).
  • Solutions like deploying more satellites in MEO (medium Earth orbit) are seen as obsolete thinking.
• Schools of Thought on GPS Alternatives (16:20–17:48):
  1. Dedicated LEO Navigation Constellations: Build new satellite networks for PNT (Positioning, Navigation, Timing).
  2. Dual-Purpose Signals: Have comms constellations intentionally carry navigation payloads.
  3. Fully Opportunistic (Kassas' Approach): Use whatever signals exist, regardless of intended purpose; allows using dedicated, dual-purpose, and pure comm signals for PNT.
• Sustainability:
  • Opportunistic approaches avoid spectrum congestion and Kessler syndrome (overcrowding LEO with satellites).
  • “Cognitive sensing and opportunistic navigation” leverages all available transmissions for navigation, minimizing unnecessary new satellites and spectrum allocation.

Quote:
“If you do not have enough taxis in a city, the solution is not to throw in more taxis… Why don’t we repurpose cars that are driving around for transporting humans and goods? …That’s the opportunistic approach.”
— Dr. Kassas (20:14)

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6. Industry & Policy Reactions

• Satellite operators have contacted Dr. Kassas and team about the work (21:12–21:37).
• Some satellite providers learn new things about their own systems from these academic analyses.
• The technique is legal: “the signal is out there,” listening to publicly transmitted synchronization sequences.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On GPS Vulnerabilities:
  “We got so used to it in our daily lives and more importantly and more dangerously in safety critical systems like aviation, like military operations and so on.” (04:50)

• On Technical Achievement:
  “We were the first to demonstrate in the world that…you can actually pinpoint your location to within about 10 meters or so with Starlink satellites alone.” (05:51)

• On Discovering Clean Signals in the Arctic:
  “They were not only useful, they are actually more beautiful…than many places where we tested this.” (08:02)

• On Opportunistic Navigation:
  “Think of Uber… Why don’t we repurpose cars that are driving around…” (20:11–20:19)

• On Industry Impact:
  “Actually, some of them even learn about their system from what we do.” (21:45)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:20] — Dr. Kassas introduces his background and research lab.
• [03:51] — Research origins and rationale for using LEO satellites.
• [05:51] — Milestone: first practical demonstration with Starlink signals.
• [07:05] — Motivations for Arctic tests, highlighting GPS weaknesses at the poles.
• [08:02] — Discovery of superior signal quality in the Arctic.
• [09:26] — Technical breakdown of the signals and methods used in the research.
• [13:32] — The broader context of GPS jamming/spoofing and the search for resilient alternatives.
• [16:20] — Explanation of competing future navigation strategies (dedicated, dual-use, opportunistic).
• [20:11] — Analogy to Uber: the logic behind opportunistic reuse of resources.
• [21:12] — Industry engagement and ethical considerations.

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Tone and Style

The conversation is technical yet approachable, blending genuine curiosity (Maria Varmazes) with detailed yet accessible explanations (Dr. Kassas). The tone is optimistic about the future of space-enabled navigation, insisting on the need for sustainable, scalable solutions as LEO constellations proliferate.

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Conclusion

Dr. Kassas’ research demonstrates that commercial LEO satellites—as they currently operate—can serve as effective ad-hoc navigation beacons, enabling PNT resiliency even in GPS-starved environments like the Arctic. The fully opportunistic, spectrum- and satellite-efficient methods pioneered by his team may be a glimpse into a more robust, sustainable, and innovative future for global navigation, far beyond traditional GNSS architectures.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the N2K space network.

[B]

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[C]

As disruptions to GPS services increase globally, humanity is pushing to find alternative methods to help with positioning, navigation, and timing. Could radio signals from low Earth orbit satellites become reliable navigation alternatives? Well, our guest certainly believes so. This is T minus deep, Maria I'm Maria Varmazes. Zach Cassis, professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering at the Ohio State University, recently released a white paper on navigating the Arctic Circle with Starlink and OneWeb LEO satellites, and he spoke with me about his research findings.

[D]

I'm Zach Casas. I'm a professor in the Electrical Computer Engineering Department at Ohio State University or the Ohio State University, so I don't get in trouble. I'm also a TRC Endowed Chair of Intelligent Transportation Systems, and I'm a director of a U.S. department of Transportation center, which we call Carmen. So for Ohioans that means something, but for those who speak Latin, it means something else. But for us it stands for the center for Automated Vehicle Research with Multimodal Assured Navigation. So I focus on resiliency and accuracy of navigation systems in a nutshell.

[A]

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

[C]

And the reason we reached out to.

[A]

You is, as you all know, you've been working on some very fascinating research that you co authored a paper on recently and presented at the IEEE Military Communications Conference in la. And this paper won the best paper, the IEEE Frederick W. Ellersik Award. I'm trying to make sure I say the names all correctly for the best paper in the unclassified technical program. So congratulations. That is not a small accomplishment. And I'm here to basically ask you about the paper that you presented. And again I know that it's going to. The answer will always be, please everybody read the paper. And we will make sure we have links and everything. But if you could give me a sense of the work that you've been working on, because it's fascinating.

[D]

Yeah, well, thank you. So it is, honestly it did caught me by a surprise. This is the first time I ever attended this conference myself. So it's not my, I would say home scientific community. So I was happy that the audience and the attendees and the awards committee appreciated the work. But in a nutshell, what this work is about. So this is a project that we started around 2017, which is I saw Leo is gonna be booming in a good way in, you know, and will change life as we know it on Earth. So with the birth they call it, they call mega constellations. So a lot of the purpose of these mega constellations, of course I call star like the daddy of all mega constellations. They surpass 10,000 satellites in LEO. The purpose of these mega constellations is broadband connectivity anywhere on Earth.

[E]

Right.

[D]

But for myself, which I'm as I said, interested in navigation systems, I saw an opportunity to, let's call it GPS 2.0, right. So GPS is a wonderful system. It had served us beautifully over the years since really the first launch in 1978. So people may not realize how old of a system it is. And it over delivered what the original designers intended it to do, but the limitations are null. And in recent years it's been extremely vulnerable. And we got so used to it in our daily lives and more importantly and more dangerously in safety critical systems like aviation, like military operations and so on. So I thought the answer is going to be I'm a big fan of the X Files. So they say the truth is out there. I said the truth will be out there, will be in leo. There are these systems that maybe we can exploit for navigation.

[E]

So we started this work in 2017.

[D]

We started on satellite constellations before Starlink, so namely the Orbcom constellation and the Elidium constellation. We don't have as many satellites obviously as Starlink, but that was a good starting point and we learned a lot so that when we went After Starlink in 2021, we were the first to demonstrate in the world that hey, you can actually pinpoint your location to within about 10 meters or so with Starlink satellites alone. And that was the beginning of the journey which led us to this paper. So over the years we've taken this concept to ground vehicles. We've demonstrated you can navigate ground Vehicles to meter level accuracy with Starlink. Two summers ago, we demonstrated that on a high altitude balloon that flew in New Mexico, reaching nearly 80,000ft above ground level with Starlink signals alone. And then we started thinking, well, where else could we take this? We've also demonstrated on UAVs on unmanned aerial vehicles. So that's a little, I would say a little boring by now. So we thought, where else could we take it? And the question that I kept getting asked is, what if you are in the middle of nowhere?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Right. So what if you are a plane flying over the ocean? What if you are sailing across the ocean and you lose GPS for one reason or another? So we thought, okay, let's take it to the ocean and let's take it somewhere very cold. That was in the news, I would say nine or so months ago, 10 months ago, and we took it to the Arctic. So GPS is not, I would say you don't have as much coverage from GPS satellites up in the polar region, right?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

And it's very, I would say, becoming a very contentious area and it's important for us's national security. So really that was the biggest Dr. For my interest in the Arctic. So we took it to the Arctic. We wanted to see are the satellites really transmitting there and are their signals useful for exploitation, for navigating a vessel.

[E]

And to our surprise, they were not.

[D]

Only useful, they are actually more beautiful. And this is a technical term, believe it or not, they're more beautiful than many places where we tested this. We've tested Starlink and looked at Starlink across the, from California to New Mexico to Ohio to Pennsylvania to Missouri. So we've seen enough of those signals. But what we saw in the Arctic was something else. So this paper is the beginning of several studies. We have another, bigger study that is in the works. But what we showed in this paper is yes, you can, you can navigate a vessel with Starlink signals alone or you can also marry them with one web signal. So that's another mega constellation, I would say number two behind Starlink in terms of number of satellites in orbit. And we navigated the vessel for about 8 or so kilometers with an error on the order of tens of meters.

[A]

Wow. Okay, so you said beautiful signal, which is, I don't think I've ever heard that phrase before, but I'm adding that to my lexicon. Cause that's wonderful. So it makes me wonder about the nature of these signals. So I was reading in the press release that these are not purposely put out by Starlink. This is not Starlink doing. This is passive data. I mean, is this metadata? What exactly are these signals? Just so I can get a sense of what we're picking up on.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So basically, Starlink transmits a calm signal.

[D]

Actually, it's a communication signal very similar to how your cell phone operates. And it's something called an OFDM frame. Right. So it's similar to 5G and even 4G protocol.

[E]

Those signals, they are intentionally designed and.

[D]

Perfected and optimized for communications.

[E]

Now, if you want to use them for navigation, it's not straightforward, and that's.

[D]

What makes it a research topic. Right. If they were meant for navigation, then it's more of a design or an engineering concern. But what really got us curious about these signals is first of all, you don't know what they are transmitting. They didn't disclose it. Like the fact that they are ofdm. That's something we discovered and published on, among others, and the literature. How do you use what they are transmitting to be able to navigate?

[E]

Like, how do you design a receiver.

[D]

That can learn those signals and learn.

[E]

As much as possible from those signals.

[D]

And then allow you ultimately to navigate as if they are GPS satellites? Because that's what we are turning those satellites. And as you said, it's passive. We eavesdrop on the satellite. Starlink doesn't know that we are sniffing and using it to navigate. That's one half or one part of the challenge is what do they transmit and how do you use it to navigate. The other half of the challenge is.

[E]

Where the heck are these satellites? Right?

[D]

You don't know precisely where they are in space. So GPS tells you precisely to within a meter or so where the satellite is in space. It is intended for you to navigate with it. So it gives you all the help you need. It tells you what the signals are, where the satellite is in space, and it also tells you a lot of the timing error and so forth. It's all taken care of to us.

[E]

By the Space Force. Right. And the Air Force Starlink, it's proprietary.

[D]

It doesn't tell you any of this. You can get an estimate of where the satellite is in space. It's a course estimate go online. There are publicly available data files. They are not updated all the time. You know, they promise to update them regularly. Sometimes they mis uploading the file and so on. And they are not super accurate. Right. And that's something. That's the biggest challenge. In fact, when we started working on this, we were using files with an accuracy of several kilometers oh, right. So you barely know where this. But in space world, this is good enough.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[D]

It's a vast, it's a desert. Right. It's a vacuum. Whereas if you know something to within few kilometers, you cannot expect to know where you are to within few meters. Right? So we also solved what you call the ephemeris problems where the satellites are in space at any point in time. So when you marry both together without help of Starlink or talking to them or working with them, we were able to more or less reverse engineer Starlink for position, navigation and time.

[A]

We'll be right back.

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[A]

The implications of this, and I know the work is still ongoing, but it is a very known problem about how GPS jamming and spoofing is huge, very dangerous. You mentioned at the top of our discussion and the solutions to this there. I know in the market there are a lot of different directions of how people are trying to solve this. But the larger solution is usually we need to put up more resilient GPS satellite constellations. But in a way this is essentially saying there is a completely different path. I'm wondering, in your estimation, is this a matter of years, decades? I mean, what do you think would be possible for using this for resilience?

[E]

So that's a good question. And I get asked this often, right?

[D]

And this is why I like to think of.

[E]

The future of navigation or the different schools of thought of navigation. Especially if you want to look at leo, like putting gps, more GPS satellites.

[D]

In mio, in medium earth orbit. That's not going to solve the problem.

[E]

You're solving the problem that got us.

[D]

Into the issues we have with the same thinking that got us into that.

[E]

Problem to begin with.

[D]

So there is something called physics, right? You cannot simply put a satellite there that transmits a much, much more powerful signal, you know, in an economical way or even in A physically engineered way. So that's why people got excited in.

[E]

Liu, I should say. You see, I don't know how young.

[D]

Our listeners are, but people often forget that the greatest thinking had been done in the past.

[E]

And we reinvent the wheel, right? So leo, Leo for navigation is not a new concept.

[D]

It's actually started with the satellite constellation called Transit.

[E]

The first satellite constellation for navigation is called Transit. It's not GPS and it was in leo. So people knew that LEO is very attractive for navigation. The problem, it's much cheaper, much closer.

[D]

The signal is more powerful, and so on and so forth. The problem is you will need way.

[E]

More satellites in LEO than in NEO.

[D]

To be able to instantaneously know where you are anywhere on Earth.

[E]

So back then people had to wait.

[D]

For nearly an hour to get a position fixed. And I don't think in today's world, you know, you want to wait an hour to know where the closest coffee shop is.

[A]

Yeah, nobody's that patient.

[E]

Yeah. So it is not a new concept.

[D]

Yeah, this is why we went to meo.

[E]

GPS was born then.

[D]

GNSS Global Navigation Satellite Systems, Galileo, glonass, Baidu and so forth.

[E]

So now we are going back to leo. Okay, good. What do we do there? And there are three schools of thought. The first school of thought, it says let's build a dedicated constellation in LEO.

[D]

For pnt, for positioning, navigation and timing.

[E]

Kind of like gps.

[D]

But we're going to put it in leo.

[E]

And there are companies that are doing this right, commercial companies, and there are even nations that are thinking about this. Okay, that's fine. The other school of thought, it's dual purpose whatever we have in LEO for navigation. So Starlink is transmitting a, I don't.

[D]

Know, Justin Bieber YouTube video for you. It's also transmitting a PNT signal for you, a navigation signal. Right.

[E]

So they're dual purposing the constellation. I think that's a step in the right direction. And then there is the third school of thought, which is fully opportunistic. And that's what we are doing. Fully opportunistic means you don't really have to do anything. And if you think it's like a superset, if you think of a Venn diagram, this is the superset of both approaches. Because whether you have a dedicated constellation, whether you have a, a dual purpose constellation, I can exploit both. So I realize people may not warm up to it immediately warm up to.

[D]

The idea, but it has been getting.

[E]

A lot of traction and I'll tell you why I'm passionate about this approach.

[A]

Please. Yeah.

[E]

So one, it is very sustainable, very sustainable for space. The first approach isn't sustainable for space. If everyone who can afford and now, unfortunately, or fortunately, you can launch satellites into LEO cheaply and replace them every few years, actually Starlink launches them as.

[D]

If you are going to Costco.

[E]

Right.

[D]

They just launch them in these big batches.

[E]

So what are we doing to space? Right. So it's going to be a problem. So it is sustainable from a space.

[D]

Environment point of view?

[E]

It is. And if you are not a space environmentalist, I understand it is sustainable for spectrum. Why should we license. Spectrum is probably the most expensive and non perishable resource out there. Why should we license this spectrum? If I can reuse the spectrum that is there and that's what we've shown. In fact, the idea that we worked on in my lab for many, many years, and I would say perfected up until now, is called cognitive sensing and opportunistic navigation. So what does it mean? I can give you a radio or a receiver that can listen to virtually any signal coming from space, from LEO and learn what they are transmitting and use it to navigate. So we had successfully applied this technique, regardless what they are transmitting. And every constellation transmits its own proprietary signal with its own proprietary modulation multiple axis. So we've applied it to old constellations. Orbcom, Eridium and even noaa. NOAA is the Space Weather Constellation. We applied it to Starlink, we applied it to one one and it worked. And very recently my student applied it to a constellation that is intended for.

[D]

LEO pnt, which is Zona.

[E]

Zona transmits a proprietary navigation signal, said, you know what, we're gonna crack their.

[D]

Signal as well and use it without.

[E]

Their knowledge to navigate. So it is a green approach, if you will. Right. The spectrum is licensed for other purposes.

[D]

Why can't we use it? Why can't we share it? I came up with this analogy.

[E]

I don't know if it makes sense.

[D]

For our audience, but think of Uber.

[E]

If you do not have enough taxis in a city, the solution is not.

[D]

To throw in more taxes in a city and overwhelm the city with congestion.

[E]

Why don't we repurpose cars that are.

[D]

Driving around for transporting humans and goods? Right.

[E]

So that's the opportunistic approach, if you will. And let's see, there are three competing schools of thought and only time will tell which one will get mass adoption.

[A]

I think it's gonna be fascinating to see. I cannot help but wonder, have you heard from any of the satellite operators about your work. Cause, I mean, the word that you've been using is exploiting, but it's there. It's not like you're stealing something. But I understand the sense of how you're using that word. So I'm just curious if you've heard from the satellite operators at all or any of them.

[E]

We have. We have.

[D]

We often get contacted by all kinds of people, including some of the big satellite operators.

[E]

But technically, the signal is out there.

[D]

That's right the moment you transmit it.

[E]

And we are only listening to what we call synchro.

[D]

We are not listening to data traffic, nor we have that capability or interest.

[E]

We're listening to synchronization sequences that are out there that allow us to navigate.

[D]

So, yeah, we have been contacted by some of these operators and they're aware of what we are doing.

[E]

Actually, some of them even learn about.

[D]

Their system from what we do.

[A]

I was gonna say that's really neat. I mean, this is a really. It's a really interesting concept and I mean, I'm really looking forward to hearing the. The subsequent research that you all are working on as well. Because if the signal is there and it's a matter of just being able to pick it up, that honestly sounds like an opportunity for a lot of these providers as well. So this is very fascinating. So I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. Just genuinely thank you and congratulations again on your paper winning the award, the IEEE Award. That is really wonderful as well. So thank you again and all the best on your research.

[C]

I look forward to hearing more.

[E]

Thank you very much, Maria.

[D]

And all the best to you and this wonderful podcast and to your audience learning a lot about space, which is an era we are living a renaissance of. So thank you very much for the opportunity.

[C]

That's t Deep Space brought to you by NG N2K CyberWire. We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in.

[A]

The rapidly changing space industry.

[C]

If you like our show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app or you can send an email to space2k.com we're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn, and stay informed. As an exodus for discovery and connection, we bring you the people, technology and ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn [e-mail] N2K's senior producer is Alice Carruth. Our producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ivan. Peter Kilby is our publisher and I am T minus host Maria Varmazes. Thank you for listening. See you next time.

[B]

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