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T-Minus: Space-Cyber Briefing
T-Minus Overview- CHAPEA 1 Mission.
00:29:13
Welcome to the T-Minus Overview Radio Show featuring conversations with experts from the space industry.
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- [00:02]
Maria Varmazes
You're listening to the N2K space network. Happy holidays from all of us here at N2K Networks. We're taking some time off to spend with our families and we'll be sharing some of our radio programs and repeat episodes during this time for you to enjoy. We will resume our daily briefing on January 2nd. Happy New Year.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
Foreign.
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- [01:24]
Maria Varmazes
Foreignzes host of the T Minus Space Daily Podcast and you're listening to T minus overview.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
T minus 20 seconds.
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Maria Varmazes
In this program we'll feature some of the conversations from our daily podcast with the people who are forging the path in the new space era. From industry leaders, technology experts and pioneers to educators, policymakers, researchers and more. And today we're going to talk about the missions that go on here on Earth before human spaceflight. In particular the recent CHAPEA 1 mission. And CHAPEA stands for Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog. It's a series of analog missions that will simulate year long stays on the surface of Mars. Each mission consists of four crew members living in Mars Dune Alpha, an isolated 1,700 square foot habitat. During the mission, the crew will conduct simulated spacewalks and provide data on a variety of factors which may include physical and behavioral health and performance. NASA held the first mission of the CHIPIA series from June 25, 2023 to July 6, 2024. And I spoke to Dr. Kelly Haston, commander of the first CHIPMunk mission, about what it was like to live in a simulated Mars environment for over 12 months.
- [03:34]
Dr. Kelly Haston
My name is Kelly Hastin, I'm the commander of Chapia 1, which is a one year Mars analog mission that just completed with NASA out of Johnson Space Center.
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Unknown Host
So let's just start with the beginning when you heard about this mission. I mean it's an incredible opportunity to advance our understanding and so much science, so much data can be done, but.
- [03:54]
Maria Varmazes
It is a big commitment.
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Unknown Host
Obviously you know better than anybody.
- [03:57]
Maria Varmazes
So what was your motivation for Wanting to join.
- [03:59]
Dr. Kelly Haston
So as background, I'm a stem cell biologist, so I build models of human disease and development using human stem cells. I'm super interested in using those models to explore issues of space travel and space exploration, because you can send animal models to space, but human models are always, in my opinion, better. I'm a human modelist. That's, that's me. But so I had been talking to the lunar biology folk for several years in and around that field. I was really interested in all of that. But to be honest, I'm Canadian and I've lived in the US for a long time. I did all my schooling here, but I only got my green card in 2021, so I haven't actually been eligible in national settings like NASA. So I was sort of tangential. I was like talking to people on the edge of things and collaborating and sort of thinking about the problem. And I also, in my spare time, in an ultra Runner. And so I love being in the outdoors. I do a lot of backpacking as well. So I like being in sort of challenging conditions with very small resourcing. So believe it or not, my partner found this. He was looking at the news one Saturday after we'd gone for a run, and he goes, oh, NASA's looking for people to do a one year Mars analog mission. And he goes, this looks perfect for you. And he sent it to me. And I thought, wow, this brings together all the things that I'm interested in, like the idea of space travel being in austere conditions and making a team work. And then just also like the experimental side of things. I don't experiment with full human beings the way the people that ran this experiment do. Just such an interesting problem though.
- [05:29]
Unknown Host
It was meant to be. So I'm so glad that you got to be a part of it. I mean, that's amazing. So I imagine you must have, before you started, had a bunch of expectations or maybe, you know, you imagine what it would be like. Did the actual experience live up to what you experienced? Was it completely different? I mean, where do we even start with that?
- [05:46]
Dr. Kelly Haston
Yeah, so all great questions. So for starts, during the evaluation period, I got to know the other crew members even before I knew who would be prime, as NASA likes to call it. Who were the people that would actually be going on the mission? I got to know many of the people that were there. And we were a collaborative group right from the start. Like it was actually, it was one of those settings where when you arrive, you're feeling a little nervous and then when you start to talk to folks, you're just like, immediately swat into, like, oh, these are my people. So even in the lead up to the mission, and there was a fairly long time between us being selected and us going on the mission, this being the first iteration of this one, we collaborated on everything from, you know, we had a certain amount of data size that we were able to bring and a certain weight restriction on our personal items. And we collaborated on what shows, what music we were going to bring. So no one actually was redundant. We tried to really reduce our redundancy, maximize our opportunity to take the maximum amount of items that we could have. We also did the same for special holiday items if we were going to try to accomplish that. So if we were going to do a Christmas or some kind of birthday holiday, you know, we all were pretty collaborative on, like, what we could actually bring along. And so in the end, it ended up being that I felt very ready for, as you say, the expectation of it. What is this going to look like with these. This group of people? Now, having said that, it's still different, right? An analog is a simulation. So it's not, of course, being on Mars, it's the best attempt you can make to answer the questions of interest. And so there's compromises in different places. And those compromises were not always clear to me until I was actually in the mission, some of which I can only be a little vague on because I don't want to spoil things for the next mission, and not in a bad way. But, you know, there are things that are more realistic versus less. I would use an example of, you know, I had some expectations for what our. The spacesuit we would wear on EVAs or extravehicular activities when we went out onto the Martian surface would feel like. And although we tested that a little bit in training, until you're out there doing day after day of activity, you don't have as good a sense of how that equipment is going to wear on you. And, you know, so you can prepare a lot. And so I'm very pleased to say that I think that as a crew, we prepared really well. And I also feel like, personally, like, I brought the right amount of personal items that I wanted to do in my spare time. Like, I'm a crafter. So I basically embroidered, like, everything you could imagine to do with the mission. I embroidered our patch. I embroidered the naps and meatball. I mean, I just really, like, you know, that was my thing. And so. And I did some knitting and things like that. So yeah, so those were all really great. That was probably a long answer for you, but love the answer.
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Unknown Host
It's all good.
- [08:31]
Dr. Kelly Haston
In a nutshell though, there were definitely things that were exactly what I expected. I was really well prepared to have the restrictions on food. The restriction on communication was of course we knew about that. How you handle that and how you handle that individually with each of your people ends up being very much a work in progress. So some people really flipped from texting and talking in real time to email very well. Other people hated it and I ended up flipping them to audio like somewhere along in the, in the mission video was very data intensive. So I tended to save that for my partner just because it was, it was a really big lift and you could only do very short ones anyway, so. So there were like things like that that you really got, you only got experience of and you could only really like ever have that shared experience of it with your colleagues that were in there with you in the end. Because it is hard to explain some of that stuff and, but, but there were like, sort of like mitigations that I came up with of things that I didn't expect. Like I didn't expect that some people would just hate female because, you know, you know, you forget that we don't talk like that to each other anymore, really.
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Unknown Host
Right, I know. Yeah. That delay and again, as you just mentioned, the having to conserve data, I never would have thought of that. But you're right, you have to prioritize and. Sorry. You said so many fascinating things and as a fellow crafter, you answered something I was very curious about, about how, how one passes the time and my brain goes, okay, like people used to before we had such a high, fast paced lifestyle. But of course you had that space restriction. So embroidery makes a lot of sense. Knitting you mentioned, that's a really smart one too. It's also. All these things are also very practical. Makes sense. I think that's the question everybody's wondering is like, how do you fill so much time? I mean, I'm sure you were all super busy, but there's also a lot of downtime and all of us experience a tiny flavor of that with COVID But nothing on the scale of what you all experienced.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
That was a challenge for sure. You are so used to having a busy life and when you get bored you can go outside and find something new to do or call a friend. So I will say that downtime and filling it is something that is going to be a huge challenge for people on a two three year, five year mission where you have the same group of people for that length of time. The crew was really inventive. We came up with games inside the habitats. We were one of those groups that we threw nothing away during the mission. Like if there was something that could be utilized as a secondary resource, we kept it and made something of it or you know, so we were, we were very inventive that way. But we, as I said, we collaborated on, you know, items that we would have. We had a set number of games, so we did play games. We, some of the crew. I was not a video person or a video game person, but there was a limited number of video games and certainly many of the crew were really into that and had like elaborate strategies for their different games and things like that. And we also read, all of us are big readers. I think I read over 100 books. And so I would say, you know, I mean some of them were absolute, you know, sort of mind fluff, like sci fi fun and others were deeper, sort of like meaningful books that I'd been, you know, had on my list for years. So it was actually a really nice mix that way. But, but you know, to relax even you really do want to sort of be transported away. So there were a number of things that we did. But you're right that you have to be really thoughtful and intentional when you're packing because you don't have the opportunity to do anything else. Like we had a 3D printer which was mostly resourced for the mission. In a real mission you may be able to maybe use some of your weight restriction for filament so that you can actually 3D print a few of your own things. But if you ended up breaking that printer for your own personal use, then you wouldn't have it for the mission. So you have to also think about like, what are the items that I'm using and what importance are they and how am I going to risk them? Because risk mitigation is as much your, your role as it is ground controls. At that point right there you're there and you're the only people controlling your resources. They're not going to come in and fix it for you. So or, or the, or you have to get it sent. And of course like now with iss we see that being not super hard, you know, they get resupplied frequently unless something blows up. But on Mars most of the items will be pre positioned. So all the thinking has to occur beforehand. And I think that's gonna be a huge challenge as well.
- [12:57]
Unknown Host
What an incredible challenge. That's why I have so much respect for all you, because that I just cannot begin to imagine. The habitat you all lived in is about the same square footage as of my home. And it's only three of us. And of course, most of it is not dedicated to mission work. So I'm just like, how. I mean, that was your home for a year. Can you walk me through it? Like, give me a map of what it was like?
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Dr. Kelly Haston
Yeah, sure. So kudos to the designers because it actually felt quite spacious to us. And I think that the intentionality of the way the mission was thought through and how it was executed speaks to that. So I really love the fact that that was definitely part of, I think, the way NASA thought about it. How can we make a small habitat feel good to people? Each of us has a bedroom. It wasn't super large, and you had a twin bed and enough space. I had a standing desk, which actually was huge for me because I love to stand instead of sit at my work. Even in my workout, I stand at the hood. When I'm doing cell culture, I never sit. So that was actually. Little things like that can go a long way. The flight engineer, Ross Rockwell, he always talks about little things actually mattering a lot. And that was very true. Having your own room really key on a long mission. And I believe that was something that was really important to them relative to, like, short. During space flight, you may not have your own room. Probably not. And so that was very nice. You had your own space. And for me, that also meant that you could keep the public spaces a lot clearer because you could do most of your personal things in there. But then we had a galley and sort of rec area that was together, you know, sort of kitchen area, along with sort of some recreational use. A table that we used for dinner. We continued for the whole mission to eat most meals together, but in particular, dinner 95 to 99% of the time, we ate dinner together throughout the mission and along with other social activities that we continued the whole time. But that table was really ended up being one of the things that we used for meetings, for prep, for all sorts of things. And that was really critical. And then we had almost an equal amount of space that, as you said, was dedicated to mission specific tasks. So we had a work workspace that had both our science area and more of our engineering components as well. We had a room dedicated to the actions that we would take for when you are inter vehicular or when you're the IV or MCC for the EVAs, that was as important a role. Obviously you need someone inside that's guiding the people on the outside that are on the Martian surface. That was a dedicated space. It actually was really high use. We had an exercise room because we had to exercise daily in the same way that you would if you go to space. And it was prescribed. So we had to actually exercise in a prescribed manner. And then we had a med bay which luckily was, you know, we could flex that out and use it for other things. But an important thing to have if we do have injuries. So we actually. It had a screen in it. We were able to use it as a second TV room so that people could break off and do additional things there and stuff like that. And then of course, bathrooms. We were lucky enough to have two bathroom areas and that really diversified that and made that a little more pleasant for two people. But if you had one go down, you can see that you'll always need like, you know, personal health and hygiene is something where you need redundancy. Yes, critical, critical, because if you lose one toilet, you're not going to have, you know, without another one. So. And then on top of that, attached to the habitat were airlocks that led us to the outside and then an outdoor area that was covered and made to look like the Martian surface, where we did either virtual reality or non virtual reality activities, depending on what, what that day dictated in our sort of mission log. None of the spaces were single use.
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Unknown Host
That makes a lot of sense, honestly, to make the most use of the space you have.
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Unknown Guest
Let's get a bit into the science. What can you tell me about what.
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Unknown Host
Kind of work you are working on?
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Dr. Kelly Haston
There's two aspects to this mission, right? So this mission is an analog mission to collect human data for the scientists at NASA. That is the primary function of this analog is to actually gather information on human physiology and psychology and team dynamics during extreme isolation and resource limitations such as you would have on Mars. So obviously we were doing things that would actually collect data for the scientists along with everyday activities that are mimicking and are similar to what you would be doing on Mars. So we had science that we did inside a little bit as blinded just because we have additional. There's two more missions coming and so we don't really talk about the details, but as you might imagine, we had everything that you could think of to, you know, you had science activities that would be what you would do if you were exploring a new planet. You had science activities that would be involved with maintenance both inside and outside the habitat of how you would actually maintain, you know, everything to do with living in an environment that is not friendly to earthling biology. So you have all of those aspects. And again, we did the outside in a mix of virtual reality and non VR. In all cases, we either built or maintained or fixed things that were going to be relevant to our experience there or were needed items for the science or the maintenance of life there. So a plethora of activities there. And then sometimes we would collect things and bring them back in and do analysis inside as well. So we also had inside activities that were scientific. We took measurements inside the hab for a host of things. Again, some of them were to do with our health. So there was like a number of things that they were testing across time. And most weeks had a particular labors. So, you know, some weeks we would be focused on doing VR EVAs, other weeks we would maybe be focused on doing maintenance inside the hab or, or trainings or et cetera. So it was really, it was actually a diversity of activities and science that we were doing. And I really do like to make that distinguishing sort of thing that we were being scientists while at the same time we were actually producing data, which is a really unique. It's a very unique sort of setting. So that's, that's pretty exciting.
- [19:14]
Unknown Host
That is what is so fascinating to me about your mission and why I'm.
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Unknown Guest
Just like, I want to hear all about it. It' fascinating to me. Okay, so I'm gonna go back to what it was like life wise because my brain is 378 days if I'm.
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Unknown Host
Remembering that number correctly.
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Unknown Guest
So marking the passage of time in a non Earth, you know, you don't have the normal markers of what, you know, our earthly seasons. I'd love to know sort of how you marked the passage of time and maybe if you had any favorite, you know, commemorations.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
Yeah, yeah. So that's also a great question. And again, sort of getting to that intentionality. So one way you continue to feel connected to your people back on Earth is to really make a point of celebrating both your holidays or common holidays, but also their holidays. So as an example, making note of your crewmates, partners, birthdays or children's birthdays or whatever, just thinking about what's going on on Earth really helps us kind of mark that time. And then on top of that, so we did have special days. We celebrated different holidays that were important to the crew. Examples would be we celebrated Canadian Thanksgiving because that's a different holiday than Americans have And so that was, you know, sort of a nod for my family. We also. Our med officer was really big on Christmas. And so we had a really tremendous Christmas where I think we watched. I've never seen that many Christmas movies. Like, I know we watched them. He had a list. He had a list, and we check marked them off. We all ended up actually having really fantastic gifts for each other, even with the weight restrictions. And so, to be honest, that was really special. Some were made inside, Some were brought in specially as part of your, you know, your weight. All were very intentional. We celebrated birthdays, but we also celebrated important days in the mission. So, like, the sort of milestones that you would think of, they're obvious, like the 50, 100, 200, 300, and so forth. And oftentimes we did that by, you know, celebrating doing a special picture or set of pictures, something that would, you know, highlight kind of, you know. And so one of my favorites as a holiday, Christmas, as I said, was very stupendous and really was, you know, very special to med, you know, our med officer and us. But I really enjoyed also St. Patrick's Day, which is where one of the guys figured out that if he shook one of our tea items in a shaker, it looked a little bit like beer. And so we could. We. We could drink beer. There was no alcohol on this mission. So here we are with a dried item that we're able to actually make look like beer. So we toasted to the beer on St. Patrick's Day. That was super fun. And then at T minus 100 days. So when we had only 100 days left, the crew got all into our jumpsuits and we did a montage of different shots for the things that we only had 100 left of. So things that we did once a day. So as an example, you weigh yourself every single day and record that. You take certain biometrics every single day. And so we took pictures of all of that, and then we did a montage of it and sent it to mission control. And as kind of an acknowledgement for all of us that we only all had 100 days left to do all those things. And those were really fun, right? And you would share them with people that were helping you that were really running the mission. That meant a lot to all of us. And I think that that also, you know, it produced a sense of fun when we were doing it. And, you know, we were just. I think we were very. I think as a crew, we worked really well to do that. And everybody took turns Kind of being. You know, I was generally the picture pusher. So I'd be like, hey, guys, a special day is coming. You know, and I'm a terrible picture taker. So it was really funny that I got that job. But, you know. But everybody had.
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Unknown Host
And appreciate that you did it.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
But everybody had something like that. So, you know, in terms of, like, fun. And, you know, someone would be like, oh, hey, let's do this. Or somebody would have an idea for something to do or a movie or, you know, some readout that we could, like, do. That would be fun. And I would say that one of the strengths of the crew, on top of just, you know, being intentionally cohesive and working to be there for each other for the whole mission, was that idea that we continue to really try to produce, you know, fun things to do for each other. And be thoughtful about that throughout the mission. I mean, I think we played a card game on the last day while we were waiting for egress, because we were done with everything. And we were also keyed up. So I think we actually sat there and played cards or diced or something. I can't remember. But we were definitely, like. So that was very. We were strong in that. And I think that that helps because. Yes, you're right. The monotony of daily life being very similar for that many days. It's not our norm on Earth. Even with COVID we were. Most of us were still able to go outside and do things like that. So it really helped for us to be thoughtful in that. So it does give a nod to exactly the importance of play and the importance of intentional living. Like, thinking through how your week is going to be and what you're going to do that's special. And making a point of making things special, which sometimes I think we forget or look past. When we're so used to all the stimuli we have here.
- [24:38]
Unknown Host
Yes, I was going to say there's a great lesson in what you just said for all of us, truly, in how we live our lives, even not on Mars or Mars simulation. That is such an important point. Something I'm definitely gonna be taking away for myself. As I think on this later. Your egress was almost a month ago now. Are you still talking to the rest.
- [24:58]
Unknown Guest
Of the crew, or are y'all, like, on break?
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Unknown Host
Like, are y'all still in contact a lot or.
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Dr. Kelly Haston
Yes. So we had two weeks of debrief. So we were together for another two weeks, and we had a hurricane, which was actually oddly isolating in a strange way. Yeah, yeah, but so we were together for the two weeks immediately afterwards. And as a matter of fact, I flew back home on the 20th of July, and I remember saying to my partner, this is the first day in about 14 months. And I don't know exactly where every single one of my crewmates is, because during training and during the mission and even after the mission, I kind of always knew where they were. So that was. But so we are still in contact and we still chat. We did take a little bit more of a break, and it's definitely a little bit more like, you know, touching base and things. But we're still collaborating on some stuff and we're still, you know, trying really hard to, I think, maintain that contact. It'll just be in a different format. And everybody, of course, is pretty busy getting back to normal life and also giving some time to their loved ones, because right now it's actually really awesome. But it's also like, you know, you have to really put that energy towards them because they helped us so much during the mission. So it's important to make sure that the people that you actually that were supporting you back here get that time right now because, you know, it's just without them, you wouldn't make it through. No matter how great the crew did as a unit, you needed that support. You needed those people outside to be continuously giving you that input, that richness of conversation that you were getting from them, because then you felt like you hadn't left anything behind, but that they were with you.
- [26:37]
Unknown Guest
What an amazing experience you had. I am just so honored that you're sharing just a little, just a tiny bit of this with me. I've learned so much from you and honestly, what an incredible mission you all were on. And just truly amazing how much you all are really advancing science with your incredible sacrifice for over a year. So, genuinely thank you for what you and your crew did. Just truly amazing. I'm seriously in awe of all of you, so. And your loved ones who supported you, because that is not a small thing either. So thank you so much and thank you for telling me everything. As I said, I could probably talk to you for hours, but I don't want to talk your ear off. So thank you so, so much. Really appreciate it.
- [27:20]
Dr. Kelly Haston
Thank you so much for the interest. And honestly, this mission made me realize even more than I already did how tough space exploration and exploring places like Mars will be. It will take so many people and so much effort to do that for humans. And I just. I love the fact that it ended up being successful because of the collaborative nature and because of just realizing how many people it took. So everybody that can get involved and be interested in this, the better, that is, I think. So thank you for providing that platform of people thinking about it. Foreign.
- [28:03]
Maria Varmazes
Thank you so much to Dr. Kelly Haston for providing us with some incredible insights into the Chapea missions. And if you're interested in hearing more about the space industry, join me every day for T Minus Space Daily, available on all major podcast platforms. Find out more at space n2k.com we'd love to know what you think of this show. You can email us@space2k.com your feedback ensures we deliver the information that keeps you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. This episode was produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. Our executive editor is Brandon Karpf. Simone Petrella is our president. Peter Kilpie is our publisher and I'm your host, Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. T minus.