What’s next for the Mars Sample Return Program?

Summary

Podcast Summary: T-Minus Space Daily – "What’s Next for the Mars Sample Return Program?"

Published on January 7, 2025

Hosted by Maria Varmazas and brought to you by N2K Networks, "T-Minus Space Daily" offers in-depth space intelligence and analysis, featuring interviews with industry leaders, academics, and researchers worldwide.

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1. Introduction

In this episode of T-Minus Space Daily, host Maria Varmazas delves into the current status and future prospects of NASA's Mars Sample Return (MSR) Program. The episode also covers significant developments in the global space industry, including investments, international collaborations, and technological advancements.

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2. Mars Sample Return Program Update

Overview: NASA recently held a media call at 1:00 PM Eastern where they shared updates on the Mars Sample Return program, which has faced numerous challenges over the years. Originally managed in-house by NASA since 2021, the program has encountered spiraling costs and schedule delays, prompting a strategic shift in its approach.

Key Points:

• Program Shift: As of Spring 2024, NASA decided to discontinue the in-house plan to return Martian samples, citing cost overruns and delays.

• New Opportunities: NASA is now exploring two primary options to retrieve the 28 samples collected by the Perseverance rover:

  1. Skycrane System Update:

     • Developed by the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the Skycrane system, previously used for deploying the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers, will be adapted to collect and return samples.
     • Cost Estimate: Between $6.6 billion and $7.7 billion.

  2. Commercial Heavy Lander Systems:

     • NASA is inviting bids from commercial entities such as SpaceX and Blue Origin to utilize their heavy lander capabilities for the mission.
     • Cost Estimate: Approximately $5.8 billion to $7.1 billion, with a potential return of samples as early as 2035.

Notable Quotes:

• NASA Administrator Bill Nelson [04:30]: "Bringing back the samples from Mars is still very important for the US Space Agency to learn more about our neighboring planet and the origins of our own."

• NASA Associate Administrator Nikki Fox [05:10]: "We are committed to reviewing all viable options to ensure the success and efficiency of the Mars Sample Return mission."

Future Outlook: NASA expects to make a final decision on the preferred strategy by 2026, emphasizing the mission's critical role in enhancing our understanding of Mars and its implications for Earth's history.

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3. Other Space Industry Developments

a. Toyota's Investment in Interstellar Technologies

• Details: Woven by Toyota is set to invest approximately ¥7 billion ($44.4 million) in Japanese startup Interstellar Technologies as part of its Series F funding round.
• Purpose: The investment aims to support the mass production of Interstellar’s rockets and strengthen supply chains and corporate governance.
• Collaborative Goal: Together, they aim to achieve Japan’s target of securing a domestic launch capacity of around 30 launches annually by the early 2030s.

b. China's First Space Launch of 2025

• Mission: A Long March 3D rocket successfully launched the Xijian 25 satellite from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center.
• Objective: The mission focuses on advancing key technologies for on-orbit refueling and extending satellite lifespans, developed by the Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology.

c. NSF’s Funding for ISS Research

• Announcement: The US National Science Foundation (NSF) is allocating $3.6 million in funding for research projects leveraging the International Space Station National Laboratory.
• Focus: The solicitation seeks proposals in transport phenomena, with NSF facilitating hardware implementation and providing in-orbit access to the ISS.

d. Intuitive Machines and Nokia’s Lunar Communication System

• Project: Successful integration of Nokia's Lunar Surface Communication System (LSCS) into Intuitive Machines' IM2 mission lander, Athena.
• Mission Goal: Deploy the first cellular network on the Moon's South Pole, with a slated launch in February 2025.

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4. Interview with Mike Gold, Chief Growth Officer at Redwire

Maria Varmazas engages in an insightful conversation with Mike Gold, highlighting Redwire's groundbreaking achievements and future initiatives on the International Space Station (ISS).

a. Redwire’s Accomplishments on the ISS

• Rollout Solar Arrays:

  • Development: Collaborated with Boeing and NASA to create compacted solar arrays that expand in orbit, maximizing energy production without consuming excessive fairing space during launch.
  • Future Use: These arrays are also slated for the Lunar Gateway project, potentially becoming the largest solar arrays ever deployed by humanity.

• 3D Printing Innovations:

  • Fab Lab System: Redwire is pioneering 3D printing on the ISS, having produced over 200 parts and components, a capability that enhances sustainability and safety for future lunar and Martian missions.

• Microgravity Research:

  • Biofabrication Facility (BFF): Achievements include printing the first human meniscus and cardiovascular tissues aboard the ISS, which are then returned to Earth live for immediate use.
  • Pillbox Systems: Utilizing microgravity to develop new pharmaceuticals with enhanced efficacy and fewer side effects, with approximately 30 pillboxes flown to date.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Gold [09:29]: "It's been amazing to do that work in this case with our customer Maxar, who's developing the power and propulsion elements. Technologies developed for NASA that are now innovating the private sector."

• Mike Gold [12:01]: "Redwire is just blazing trails and creating this whole new era that can not only support exploration but create a better world for all of us here on Earth."

b. Future Growth and Vision

• Diversification Strategy:

  • Emphasizes expanding Redwire’s portfolio across various technologies and markets to ensure long-term resilience and success.

• Commercial Space Stations:

  • Anticipates significant advancements and entrepreneurial input in developing commercial space station platforms, complementing the ISS.

• National Security Contributions:

  • Redwire is actively enhancing national security through products like the Link 16 antenna and supporting initiatives to grow a diverse industrial base within the defense sector.

c. Long-Term Initiatives

• Advanced Manufacturing in Space:

  • Plans to expand 3D printing capabilities to include diverse human tissues such as kidney and liver, advancing regenerative medicine.

• Low Earth Orbit (LEO) Operations:

  • Developing capabilities for a new realm of LEO missions, particularly focusing on defense applications and remote sensing technologies.

• International Collaborations:

  • Building the International Birthing and Docking Mechanism (IBDM) in Belgium to facilitate global cooperation on missions like the Lunar Gateway.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Gold [15:50]: "Diversity is not just the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do for business... Redwire is so diverse in terms of capabilities, locations, geography, and customer base that we're strong for the long haul."

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5. Gravitational Lensing Breakthrough

Towards the end of the episode, Maria Varmazas discusses a remarkable astronomical achievement made possible by the James Webb Space Telescope:

• Double Gravitational Lenses:

  • Phenomenon: Astronomers utilized galaxy cluster Abel370's Dragon Arc, which acts as a massive gravitational lens, magnifying distant celestial objects by 100x.
  • Innovation: By aligning with a smaller 10x gravitational microlens from a star within the same cluster, researchers achieved a combined magnification that allowed them to observe over 40 distant stars simultaneously.
  • Impact: This dual-lens system enabled astronomers to peer into galaxies nearly 6.5 billion light-years away, capturing data from when the universe was only half its current age.

• Publication: The findings, based on data from 2022 and 2023, were detailed in a recent issue of Nature Astronomy.

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6. Conclusion

The episode of T-Minus Space Daily provides a comprehensive overview of the evolving landscape of space exploration and technology. From the strategic realignment of NASA's Mars Sample Return Program to Redwire's innovative contributions on the ISS, the podcast highlights the dynamic and collaborative efforts driving the future of space exploration. Additionally, groundbreaking astronomical discoveries underscore the continued advancement of our understanding of the universe.

For more detailed insights and additional resources, listeners are encouraged to visit N2K Networks and explore the show notes linked within the podcast episode.

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Credits:

• Produced by: Alice Carruth
• Associate Producer: Liz Stokes
• Mixing Engineers: Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester
• Original Music: Elliot Peltzman
• Executive Producer: Jennifer Ibin
• Executive Editor: Brandon Karp
• President: Simone Petrella
• Publisher: Peter Kilpe
• Host: Maria Varmazas

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Thank you for tuning into "T-Minus Space Daily." Stay informed and connected with the latest in space intelligence and analysis.

Transcript

[Maria Varmazas]

Foreign you're listening to the N2K space network.

[Mike Gold]

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[Maria Varmazas]

Compliance frameworks, visit threatlocker.com foreign 2025 I'm Maria Varmazas and this is T/T/20 second Intuitive Machines completes its finer lunar lander installation 4 the National Space foundation and ISS National Lab announced $3.6 million in funding for research China sees its first space launch of 2025 Toyota to invest in Japanese space startup Interstellar. NASA provides an update on the Mars sample, and our guest today is Mike Gold, Chief Growth Officer at Redwire. Redwire has had an incredible year of accomplishments on the International Space Station. From rollout solar arrays to 3D printing cardiovascular tissue, they're using the ISS National Lab to develop and research science that has real impact for us here on Earth, so stick around for my chat with Mike later in the show. We're kicking off today's show with a recent update on the Mars Sample Return program. NASA held a media call at 1pm Eastern to share details on the latest with Mars Sample Return, which has already been marred with setbacks over the years. Just a reminder, NASA decided in spring 2024 that they were no longer looking in house to bring the samples collected by the perseverance rover since 2021 back to Earth. NASA cited spiraling costs and schedule lapses as its reasons for no longer using the NASA plan. Instead, the US space agency is now reviewing two possible opportunities to bring back the 28 samples already collected by the Mars rover. The first option is the skycrane, which is a soft landing system used in the last part of the entry, descent and landing sequence developed by the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. This system was used to bring both the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers to Mars and would be updated to instead collect the samples. NASA Administrator Bill Nelson says the review board estimates that the cost to use this system would be between 6.6 and $7.7 billion. Option two is looking at commercial capabilities with heavy lander systems. Now this could be SpaceX or Blue Origin or any other company wanting to bid for the program. The schedule and budget to determine the best strategy going forward is still to be determined, but NASA estimates the cost for this option to be around $5.8 billion to $7.1 billion with a direct return as early as 2035. NASA's Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate, Nikki Fox, says that bringing back the samples from Mars is still very important for the US Space Agency to learn more about our neighboring planet and to learn more about the origins of our planet. NASA says it's still looking into options and expects to have a final decision on how it will progress with the Mars Sample return program in 2026. Woven by Toyota A Toyota subsidiary will invest about 7 billion yen, which amounts to about $44.4 million, in Japanese startup Interstellar Technologies. The investment is part of Interstellar's Series F funding to support mass production of its rockets. Woven will also appoint a director to the Interstellar Technologies Board and support rocket production by strengthening supply chains and corporate governance. Interstellar has been collaborating with Toyota since 2020. The companies are working together to support the Japanese government target to secure a domestic launch capacity of around 30 launches annually by the early 2000-30s through both core and private rockets. China launched its first space mission of the year Yesterday. A Long March 3D rocket lifted off from Xichang satellite launch center in southwest China carrying the Xijian 25 satellite. Xijian 25 was developed and manufactured by CASC subsidiary the Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology and is aiming to advance key technologies for on orbit refueling and extending satellite lifespans. The US National Science foundation, known as nsf, is funding a solicitation that seeks proposals leveraging the International Space Station National Laboratory for research in transport phenomena. Through this partnership, NSF will fund the selected projects and the ISS National Lab will facilitate hardware implementation and in orbit access to the ISS. NSF will provide up to $3.6 million in total funding for multiple projects to use the space station for research. More details about this solicitation and information on how to apply for the funding can be found by following the link to the press release in our show notes. Intuitive machines and Nokia have successfully completed the final integration of Nokia's Lunar Surface communication system, or LSCS, into the IM2 mission lander named Athena. Athena and the LSCS will voyage to the Lunar South Pole region in the upcoming IM2 mission where Nokia and Intuitive Machines intend to deploy the first cellular network on the moon. That mission is currently scheduled to launch in February of this year. And that concludes our Top five Countdown stories for you today. But there is so much more going on in the space industry for you to read about and to learn about. In our show Notes, you'll find links to articles covering the departure of Sierra Space's CEO an MOU, signed between Reorbit and India's Ananth Technologies, and a rescheduling again of New Glenn's inaugural flight, now expected no earlier than January 10. Hey T minus crew. If you are just joining us, welcome and be sure to follow T Minus Space daily in your favorite podcast app. Also, please do us a favor. Share the intel with your friends and coworkers. Here's a little challenge for you. By Friday, please show three friends or coworkers this podcast. That's because a growing audience is the most important thing for us and we would love your help as part of the T Minus crew. If you find T Minus useful, please share so other professionals like you can find the show. Thank you so much for your support everybody. It means a lot to me and all of us here at T Minus.

[Mike Gold]

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[Maria Varmazas]

And our guest today is Mike Gold, Chief Growth Officer at Redwire. Redwire has had an incredible year of accomplishments on the International Space Station and so I asked Mike to walk us through just some of the work that they've completed on the ISS in 2024.

[Mike Gold]

Our rollout solar array product, which is an amazing story that frankly I think doesn't get enough attention that we have rollout solar arrays that we developed for the International Space Station and they're compacted like a carpet when you launch so it saves a lot of fairing room and then when you reach orbit it rolls out providing a huge amount of volume and therefore energy and these roll out solar arrays were initially developed on contract Boeing, so thank you Boeing and to NASA and are now providing power for the International Space Station as we speak. And this technology is also being used for the Lunar Gateway, which these arrays, the rollout solar arrays that we developed for Gateway, may be the largest solar arrays ever deployed by humanity. So it's been amazing to do that work in this case with our customer Maxar who's developing the power and propulsion elements. So it's been terrific to see these arrays developed, yes, for government projects, but now being commercialized via our friends at Blue Origin and our wonderful customers at Thales, who are doing these incredible innovative satellites to really connect the world. So it's been a great story of technologies developed for NASA that are innovative. They're now going to the private sector. And then of course we have to talk about the incredible strides with microgravity. The first human meniscus being print the cardiovascular tissue being printed on the International Space Station live and then brought back to Earth while still live. These are incredible innovations being driven by our BFF Biofabrication facility. And that's to say nothing of what's occurring with Pillbox, which are microgravity drug developments that we're doing to use microgravity to create new drugs or different types of existing drugs that have better longitivity, increased efficacy, fewer side effects. So it's a whole revolution as we combine pharmaceuticals and biotech with with microgravity in space. And I'm so pleased to be at Red Wire where we are just blazing trails and creating this whole new era that can not only support exploration, but create a better world for all of us here on Earth.

[Maria Varmazas]

When I think about the incredible innovations happening in low Earth orbit with pharma biotech, Redwire's name just comes up all the time. And it's just amazing to see where things are already. And I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on where you see things going because I mean, you all are there at that forefront.

[Mike Gold]

Yes, absolutely. So there's really two ways that this is going. One is, as the president of our in Space Industries group says, make it, don't take it. And that's fabricating parts. Electronics. We have a system called Fab Lab. We're very good at naming things, as you can tell here at Red Wire and possibly some people spans involved in that, that will manufacture parts, components. We're the only company to have actually 3D printed parts and components on the International Space Station. We've done over 200. And while though it's a nice capability to have in low Earth orbit on the iss. The ability to print these parts, components, systems, tools, I believe will save lives on the Moon and particularly on Mars. The farther out you get, the more that capability is. So I'm thrilled with what we're doing and what we've done in that area. And then when it comes to Earth, we've got a couple of variations there with the regenerative medicine and the creation of the meniscuses of cardiovascular tissue. I believe we'll in the not too distant future be working with kidney tissue, liver tissue. Once you understand the basic principles of being able to print with human tissue, obviously you've opened then to a wide variety of tissue types that can really have some just phenomenal results. So that is going to be very exciting as we expand out the different types of tissues, types of potential organs, tissues that you're going to work with. And then the subset or a different line are the drug development. So drugs are developed from seed crystals and we create these seed crystals microgravity that are much more uniform, crystals are larger and that results or can result anyway to better, more enhanced types of the drugs. And I believe that's probably nearest to the boat is the drug development. We've flown close to 30 now pillboxes. Pillbox is the system that develops sea crystal in our ADCEP system which is on the iss. So it's an extraordinarily exciting time to be in the space industry. Even more exciting time to be at Redwire, which is leading the way globally on all of these activities. It's just an honor to be here and be a part of this amazing team.

[Maria Varmazas]

I believe it. And just so much growth is happening at Redwire. Global expansions and as I mentioned, as I keep saying, every time I look at a mission, your name is in there somewhere. Redwire is a part of these incredible missions. And we're just talking about one section of the amazing things that Redwire does. I'm Proba three is something that's very recent from in my mind anyway. I'm sure it's taken a long time to get to where it is, but that was just another mission that I just was thinking of recently where it's just an incredible, incredible science happening. And Red Wire is a big part of that.

[Mike Gold]

Absolutely. Proba simulating a solar eclipse and let's not sleep on Hera again. These are onboard computers that we're doing in Europe. So the rosas that we were discussing before were important part of powering the Dart mission. The double asteroid redirect test mission, planetary defense. Yeah, absolutely. Like had the dinosaurs, had Rosa and Dart, they'd still be around doing a podcast today. Very excited at Redwire to have contributed your job.

[Maria Varmazas]

Being Chief Growth Officer, you're looking ahead, I imagine all the time at what's coming next. I'm so curious about your long term vision for growth. Maybe any markets you see Red Wire moving into or expanding into. Just your thoughts on like the long term. Long term, yeah.

[Mike Gold]

So spoilers. There's constant growth at Red Wire. I wouldn't even be surprised if there's interesting news by the time this podcast goes up. And let me just say, generally, diversity is key. I think that's what Red Wire stands for. Diversity is not just the right thing to do. Generally, it's the right thing to do for business. Whether we're talking people or we're talking business cases, capabilities or technologies. The commercial space field can be such a roller coaster. And the fact that Redwire is so diverse in terms of capabilities, in terms of locations, geography, customer base, that's really why I think we're strong in for the long haul. And we'll succeed where other companies may fail that are more focused on a single capability or a single field or technology. So, looking to the future, I expect us to even further diversify our portfolio while of course leveraging the synergies that all of Red Wire's technologies can bring together. I'm certainly hopeful that we'll see movement and possibly under the new administration, even more alacrity relative to commercial space stations. As we've been discussing, these microgravity developments are dependent on the International Space Station, which by the way, deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. I always like discussing that because everyone involved is just the singular, extraordinary system. And I worry every day about losing that amazing platform. And we need to make sure that America, our international partners, that the world has access to a station like that moving forward. And I'm excited about opening up the commercial entrepreneurialism and the ideas that the private sector will bring to actually creating that platform. So I think in the years to come, you're going to see a significant effort there. And also as we talk more about the new administration, one aspect of Red Wire we haven't discussed is national security. And we do the link 16 antenna, literally helping bring the national security world together and a number of other products that we do for SDA and other entities and the customers that work for sda. And what I really like seeing with SDA in particular is how they're trying to grow the industrial base, a diverse industrial base, bring new ideas, new companies and new technologies to the fore. I think in many ways SDA is the intellectual inheritor of the COTS and CRS programs that NASA supported and resulted in such amazing commercial growth. And as we look at the next Trump administration, I think we're going to see even greater and more robust opportunities, particularly for companies like Red Wire that aren't as large as the big primes but still have real capabilities. I think we're going to be entering to a whole new realm of those possibilities in the defense world over the next four years. And I'm very excited what that can look like and I think we're going to have great capabilities to preserve ours and our allies freedom and to keep the world a safe and better place.

[Maria Varmazas]

Absolutely. And as we're talking about the look ahead as a wrap up question, since this is the beginning of 2025, I have to ask the obligatory missions that you're looking forward to in this year, in 2025. I know again I'm asking you to pick amongst your children, but these children aren't there yet. So you have a favorite?

[Mike Gold]

Yeah, yeah. V Leo very low Earth orbit. As we talk about protecting our freedoms, protecting our friends and allies in America. Resilience is key. Diversity, as I mentioned before, not just key for Red Wire, but key for our defense communications capabilities and having very low Earth orbit which Red Wire is working with. Tarpon, Red Wire has actual contracts with ESA on as well. I'm so excited of those missions moving forward and in US at least working on the contracts and the capabilities that we've got to mature that V LEO capability. I think again that's going to be, if not a whole new world, a whole new orbit that is going to be very important both for defense and I believe commercially as well. There's a lot of advantages on remote sensing that that will be important. And again I'm very excited about the additional pillboxes and the additional regenerative medicine activities that we'll be dealing with. Particularly as we believe vascular tissue is next up that we're going to be experimenting with. And as we go to kidney, liver tissue and different tissues as I mentioned before, very, very excited about those activities. Also in Belgium we're building the international birthing and docking mechanism, the ibdm that will literally bring the world together. It will bring Gateway together as we take those parts and dock them. That's just a few of the many missions that I'm excited about as we look towards 2025.

[Maria Varmazas]

We'll be right back. Welcome back. It feels a bit like a cheat code for viewing extraordinarily distant objects in space. Gravitational lensing, that is when light gets distorted or bent or lensed by large masses in space, creating those circular sort of swirlish light patterns in images from the James Webb Space Telescope and Hubble. And like a camera or a telescope, you can use a lens, gravitational one in this case, to see super far away objects. Up until recently, this usually meant looking at one, maybe two super far away stars through a gravitational lens. But what's better than one gravitational lens? Well, two, when their powers combine. Astronomers took a closer look at images taken over time with Webb of galaxy cluster Abel370, which has a named gravitational lens phenomenon called the Dragon Arc. Massive dark matter in the galaxy cluster provided a 100x magnification macro lens. And when conditions were just right, it aligned with a 10x gravitational microlens made by a star in that same galaxy cluster. So that's two lenses stacking right there, allowing astronomers to peer through both at the same time to see A galaxy nearly 6.5 billion light years from us, looking back in time to when the universe was just a wee babe half its age. Now, not only that, the astronomers were able to see not just one, not just two distant stars, but over 40. So again, by peering through two gravitational lenses when they happened to be stacked in just the right way, thanks to Webb, astronomers found that they could look halfway across the known observable universe. Wow. The data collected by Webb for these findings was from 2022 and 2023. And you can read the peer reviewed paper about this remarkable achievement in astronomy, just published this month in the journal Nature Astronomy. That's it for T minus for January 7, 2025, brought to you by N2K CyberWire. For additional resources from today's report, check out our show [e-mail] we're privileged that N2K and podcasts like T Minus are part of the daily routine of many of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector, from the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This episode was produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ibin. Our executive editor is Brandon Karp. Simone Petrella is our president. Peter Kilpe is our publisher, and I am your host, Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. T minus.