Trey Hester (8:45)

Hey Alice. We've included three additional articles in today's selected reading. The first one comes from the South China Morning Post on how China pulled off its recent Shenzhou rescue mission. And then there's announcements from Wenbo river on their investment in Odyssey space research and another with Aichelon partnering with ISCI to create 3D operational terrain visualizations. And as a reminder, those links can be found on our website space.n2k.com regular.

Alice Carruth (9:11)

Listeners know that every day at the end of each T Minus, our host Maria Valmazes reads the names of all the people who work on this show. It's a big team effort to get this show published every day. And you, dear listener, play a very important role too. Every time you share an episode of T Minus with colleagues or on social media, that not only helps us grow, but more importantly it shows us how Our work is useful and interesting to you. If you enjoy T Minus, don't keep us hidden. Share our show in your social and professional networks. It helps us grow and makes T minus even better every day. Thanks for being part of the T Minus crew.

Black Kite Representative (10:12)

AI is transforming every industry, but it's also creating new risks that traditional frameworks can't keep up with. Assessments today are fragmented, overlapping and often specific to industries, geographies or regulations. That's why Black kite created the BKGA3AI assessment framework to give cybersecurity and risk teams a unified, evolving standard for measuring AI risk across the their own organizations and their vendors. AI use. It's global, research driven, built to evolve with the threat landscape and free to use because Black Kite is committed to strengthening the entire cybersecurity community. Learn more@blackkite.com.

Alice Carruth (11:04)

Our producer Liz Stokes has been in Estonia this week with host Maria Varmazes. They were invited by NATO to witness a cybersecurity exercise. There's going to be a lot more on that in the coming weeks. While in Tallinn, Liz caught up with Christina Omri, Director of Special Programs for Cyber Exa Technologies. They're the company that has partnered with ESA on the cyber range. I'll let Christina explain in further detail.

Christina Omri (11:32)

Cybexor is Estonian based or headquartered company, but we do operate globally. So There are approximately 55 countries in which we have conducted different cybersecurity related projects or sold our technology. So we are a cybersecurity company on the preparedness side of cybersecurity.

Interviewer (11:54)

And you guys provide cyber ranges for NATO and esa. What do those entail exactly?

Christina Omri (12:00)

Yes, cyber range technology comes historically from military from the need to train and exercise also on the digital battlefield use the tools they would be using in the actual operations, but to do it in a simulated environment so that the real systems do not get harmed.

Interviewer (12:23)

And how do you research for cyber instances in space?

Christina Omri (12:28)

So space is interesting domain. How did we get into the space project wars through the military. At some point military started asking besides the other domain also for the elements from the space because as also the current conflicts around the world and war has shown that the space based assets are crucial for the information.

Interviewer (12:53)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can you go a little bit further into like that like how do you guys defend against those types of things?

Christina Omri (12:59)

So first of all it usually goes and how we do it, we bring the technologies to the cyber range, so to the simulation environment where we build up an infrastructure or digital twins of different technologies. And this is what we do also in the space domain. So we build it in. We build an infrastructure containing then a satellite, ground control station, mission control station, and also different other technologies when they make it relevant for the specific use case.

Interviewer (13:31)

Do you have any examples of problems solved using the cyberspace range?

Christina Omri (13:36)

The first aim of our solution is to improve the capabilities and skills in cybersecurity. Because first of all, in general in cybersecurity, there's a great lack of cybersecurity specialists around the world. There are millions of unfulfilled job places because there's just lack of suitable potential employees then. And when we even look at closer to the space segment, the gap there is also quite big. So we have space engineers, we have IT people, we have cybersecurity specialists. But how to combine those skills so that the cybersecurity specialists that come out of the universities would have understanding of space engineering, or vice versa, that the space engineers would already get from the beginning, the basics, key elements of cybersecurity, and maybe this is one of the specifics of space industry, is that the systems will be up there and running for quite a long time on the orbit. Once you finish them, you cannot take them down and relaunch it usually. So it has to be taken into account when engineering, but also designing the systems.

Interviewer (15:00)

What do you want space companies to know about space and cybersecurity? Like what are you trying to explain to them?

Christina Omri (15:05)

So we are a bit in a situation when everyone knows that they should pay attention on cybersecurity, but quite often there are so many other things to worry about and at the same time maybe also a bit of lack of knowledge what and how should we do it? So there's a bit of an elephant in the room. We know that there are a lot of legacy systems in the space industry. There have not been that many attacks that have been spoken openly about. There are a few. But it is a bit like a situation where the understanding and the perception can change very easily when something big happens. What we nowadays do not think, and probably you don't think that you rely every day in your work on space systems, but we both do when using the basic satellite information for the gps, but also for the weather forecast to see if it's snowy the next day or not. So this information we get through space, so it's not about only for the space industry, but it's part of the the way we live nowadays. Right, Right.

Interviewer (16:22)

And I see there are a ton of televisions to our left here. Would you mind telling our audience what's going on, on these televisions. Explain them a little bit more.

Christina Omri (16:32)

Yes. So the TV's here present different wheels from the cyber range. So cyber range is a platform for the hands on learning cyber skills. We build up the virtual environments, let's say digital twins, networks, everything. And the aim of the trainees there, be it a team based exercise or individual based exercise, is to go and see, depending of the scope of course, where are the vulnerabilities, what can I do to repair it, and so on and so forth. So this is one part of it that it's about the skills development and hence we can also take out the analytics. Where are they good at? What are the areas of improvement? What we say is it's never about pass and fail, it's about improving and learning. And this is also what we do. We can, on the cyber range we can clone the systems. So if we do and run a big military exercise, we clone the systems, the game nets for each team so that they would each get their playing field and get the learning experience. We can also do of course the shared targets if it's desired. But to have in mind this learning, learning, then it's best if everyone gets the same game that and has their then tasks and defense actions to be taken there.

Interviewer (18:05)

Walk me through that process, what's that like?

Christina Omri (18:08)

So if we talk about the exercise and let's say it's a team based exercise, then usually we prepare on the cyber range, those Gamnets we make sure with the customer, what are the necessary infrastructure components? Are there any of the security monitoring systems, internal networks, what are the other special systems that we connect to? If we talk about the space, then is there a, let's say a flat set, any of the mission control, ground control segments that need to be as part of the game net. And then once we have it ready, those are real virtual machines. So when the participant actually when the exercise starts, they log in and everything looks as it's real. So we do not compete with the ones who provide the cybersecurity training on paper based and theoretical materials. So we are really hands on.

Interviewer (19:11)

What made you think that Talin was one of the best places to start this company to build up from here? I mean you think of space and you think of cyber and I think most people don't come to Estonia to think of that. So what made this place the best for you guys?

Christina Omri (19:27)

Well, Tallinn has a bit of history with Cyber from the 2007, the cyber attacks against Estonia, so against the governmental institutions, but not only also commercials. So it started with attacks against the President's website. Okay. If you're a citizen of Estonia and the website of the President does not function, you can still continue your everyday life probably. But if your Internet bank does not respond anymore, then you feel it and it starts really having influence on your daily life. So this was 2007 and from this attack and the large scale attack we learned it even more clear that we have to put more emphasis on the, on the cyber. And out of this experience many good initiatives and things have grown out. Like the NATO CCDOE intellin providing the collaborative platform for the NATO and then other countries who have joined the CCDOE for those cybersecurity exercises and trainings and hence also the private sector and cybersecurity companies started growing. They started growing already before, but this definitely was another push towards it. So, and this is also where our company is a bit rooted in. So in this need after a collaborative training platform, I spoke about the training of people and upskilling them and so. But this type of platforms can also be used for the technology testings. So our core technology team has actually a background in NATO ccdoe and hand telling is a good, very untypical place for the cyber ranges because you can find different institutions and companies providing the cyber range solutions here. That's awesome. That's amazing.

Interviewer (21:40)

Is there anything that you want to kind of talk to my audience about and like explain a little bit further? Is there anything that I missed?

Christina Omri (21:46)

Well, it's a, it's a long topic and especially with a, with a space maybe angle is that there's a lot to do and there's. We, we have noticed that there's a growing interest and understanding a bit. There's still quite the understanding of the vulnerabilities. Also at the same time, when we still have this legacy systems, as I mentioned before, there still are newer solutions coming up. Also there are more commercial satellites up there with their commercial tasks so that the level of digitalization also is higher there. And when we base our business models on those satellites, the information and the exchange of information, it just becomes part of our everyday living here. At least this is one of the sites we want to explain and make more understandable to everyone. So it's not only about the real Australia now to go up there, it's about our old lives here on the planet Earth.

Alice Carruth (23:12)

We'll be right back.

Indeed Sponsor Voice (23:17)

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Alice Carruth (23:51)

Here's a fun question for you. What do asteroids taste like? We've covered space smells before, but not thought to ask if you'd lick a rock. That's an actual thing, y'.

Christina Omri (24:00)

All.

Alice Carruth (24:00)

Just ask your neighborhood geologist. I shared the results of new findings from the asteroid Bennu. Remember the Osiris Rex mission? And NASA titled the findings sugars gum stardust found in NASA's asteroid Bennu samples. And it got the team laughing in this morning's meeting. Would you look an asteroid? So I asked them, Dave, tell me, would you look an asteroid?

Black Kite Representative (24:24)

Absolutely.

Alice Carruth (24:25)

With vigor. Jen, what's your feeling about this? I'm generally a cautious person, but I.

Interviewer (24:32)

Think I probably would do it.

Alice Carruth (24:35)

Craig, what do you think?

Trey Hester (24:36)

I'd like to check with my scientist girlfriend first, but I'm going to say yes.

Alice Carruth (24:42)

Good cautious answer. Mayan, what do you think? Would you look an asteroid just for science?

Christina Omri (24:47)

I think the answer is yes, I.

Indeed Sponsor Voice (24:49)

Have to lick the asteroid.

Alice Carruth (24:52)

Elliot, what do you think?

Elliot Peltzman (24:54)

For me, it just depends on how fast this asteroid is moving past my face. If I'm like sticking out my tongue and it's like the bullet train speeding past, then no. But if I'm on the asteroid and I'm moving the same speed as it, yes, if it's safe. I definitely want to taste the asteroid, but I don't want to get hurt.

Alice Carruth (25:14)

Go on then. Tim, what do you think? Would you look an asteroid?

Elliot Peltzman (25:17)

If there are other volunteers, I would not.

Alice Carruth (25:22)

I like that. Ethan, what do you think? Would you look an asteroid?

Elliot Peltzman (25:26)

Never in a million years am I looking an asteroid. I'll let you all take one for the team. Ain't happening.

Alice Carruth (25:32)

Would I lick an asteroid? Yeah, probably. I mean, any excuse to get to space, but yeah, why not? I feel like the sugar gum stardust. Why not? So what is it that's actually been found? Japanese researchers found sugars essential for biology, which presents in a gum like substance not seen before in astromaterials. And an unexpectedly high abundance of dust produced by supernova explosions. The discovery of sugars, known as ribose, in asteroid samples is not a complete surprise. Ribose has previously been found in two meteorites recovered on Earth. What is important about Bennu samples is that researchers did not find deoxyribose now if you're like me and wondering what deoxyribose is, a quick Google search shared that Deoxyribose is a 5 carbon sugar that is a fundamental component of DNA forming part of its backbone along with phosphoric groups. If Bennu is any indication that this means that ribose may have been more common than deoxyribose in environments of the early solar system. The Bennu samples also contained one of the most common forms of food or energy used by life on Earth, the sugar glucose, which is the first evidence that an important energy source for life as we know it was also present in the early solar system. It doesn't answer if there's other life in the universe, but it certainly increases the CH chances of it. And that's it for T miners Brought to you by N2K CyberWire we'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures that we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. If you like the show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app. Please also fill out the survey in the show notes or send me an email to space2k.com we're proud that N2K CyberWire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cyber security professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the nexus for disposition, discovery and connection, we bring you the people, technology and ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn how@n2k.com N2K's producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester, with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Iban. Peter Kilpie is our publisher. Our host is Maria valmazes and I'm N2K senior producer Alice Carruth. Thanks for listening.