Podcast Summary

Podcast: Tablet Studios
Episode: Pardon the Interruption: Ep. 289
Date: September 30, 2021
Host: Marc Oppenheimer (A), joined by Liel Leibovitz (B)
Guests: Jacques Berlinerblau (C), Hannah Stein (D)

Overview

This episode of Tablet Studios’ Unorthodox podcast offers a blend of holiday reflection, Jewish cultural news, humorous banter, and thoughtful interviews. Amid Sukkot and Hoshana Rabba, hosts Marc Oppenheimer and Liel Leibovitz discuss everything from TV technology woes and book tour frustrations to the deeper meaning of “interruptions” in conversation—prompted by a Deborah Tannen op-ed. Key highlights include Liel's candid interview with Jacques Berlinerblau about his new book on Philip Roth and changing attitudes toward complicated artists, and Marc’s lively discussion with actress Hannah Stein about Jewish stereotypes, family stories, Hollywood hustle, and Jewish identity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter: Co-host Dynamics & Sukkot Vibes

• Marc jokes about Liel being his "only co-host" during Stephanie Butnik's absence, comparing their situation to Misery and No Exit ([00:17]).
• The hosts riff on the concept of a “true crime podcast about resurrecting victims of other podcasts” ([00:53]).
• Both reflect on Sukkot and Hoshana Rabba:
  • Liel describes Hoshana Rabba as “the real day,” explaining the tradition of poetic Hoshanot prayers and the long davening rituals ([03:29]).
  • “It’s like a scene out of Game of Thrones. Love this holiday.” — Liel ([05:03])

2. Personal Updates: TV Tech & Book Tour Woes

• The hosts bond over buying small, new televisions and lament the intensity of high-definition tech:
  • “You can see their pores. You can see where their makeup line ends on their neck. It’s ridiculous.” — Marc ([09:06])
• Marc humorously vents about struggling to organize a book event in San Francisco due to COVID caution, contrasting it with more permissive Seattle:
  • “Apparently no one has left their house in two years ... Even vaccinated people refuse to go outside.” ([10:25])
  • Liel quips: “That's, you know, anti-Semitism.” ([11:03])

3. News of the Jews

• Jewish holidays and workplace discrimination: A lawsuit against Unilever for firing a manager who requested Jewish holidays off ([12:27]).
  • “If we could fold the Ben and Jerry's mishigas into the lawsuit over whether the employee could take off Shmini Atzeret ... we could have one stop shopping for all of Unilever's problems with the Jews.” — Marc ([13:13])
• Fun with Jewish practices and stereotypes: Anecdotes about non-Jews and children misunderstanding Jewish holidays and challah ([14:12]).
• Jewish news around the world: The last Jew of Afghanistan, Zvulun Simontov, finally leaves for Queens, NY, after years of avoiding giving his wife a get (Jewish divorce) ([14:48]).
  • “Living under the Taliban actually wasn’t worth it.” — Marc ([15:14])
• Humor and low-brow culture: Introduction of the book "Ugly Belgian Houses" and recurring jokes about Belgium ([17:17]).

4. The “Interruptions” Debate: Deborah Tannen’s Thesis ([17:42]-[27:24])

• Inspired by Deborah Tannen's NYT op-ed, the hosts analyze “cooperative overlapping” (i.e., interrupting) as a sign of engagement in conversation, with cultural/ethnic nuances:
  • “There is something very antisemitic about this discourse. In practice, what it’s often saying is the Jew from New York ... has to be less of the Jew from New York so that the Scotch Irish Protestant ... has more space.” — Marc ([20:41])
• They discuss the misunderstood nature of extroverts/introverts in social situations, and how interpersonal engagement is necessary—even exhausting—for everyone:
  • “It's like a mask mandate. You want to be in society, you have to be an extrovert. If not, stay home.” — Liel ([24:20])
  • They note that being an engaged conversationalist is a “level of work” that’s often overlooked ([23:23]).

Interview #1: Jacques Berlinerblau — “The Philip Roth We Don’t Know” ([29:48]-[53:54])

Summary

Georgetown professor Jacques Berlinerblau discusses his new book, “The Philip Roth We Don’t Know,” examining Roth’s legacy and shifting literary reputation through a post-MeToo and postmodern lens.

Major Topics

• Reverse Biography:
  • Berlinerblau studies Roth by reading his entire corpus, seeking patterns and asking new questions, avoiding “Rothean path dependency” ([31:22]).
• Changing Student Attitudes:
  • "How come my students are no longer vibing with Philip Milton Roth?" ([32:52])
  • The journey from laughter to discomfort to resistance (especially around issues of misogyny and autobiographical violence).
• Art, Morality & Cancel Culture:
  • “Once we learn incriminating information about an artist, our understanding of his or her art changes radically.” — Berlinerblau ([37:54])
  • Berlinerblau advocates for a nuanced, critical reading—arguing not for cancellation but for complexity.
  • Comparison to Michael Jackson and Roman Polanski ([38:50]).
• Empathy in Art:
  • Liel challenges the Rothian project as lacking empathy, arguing true art requires connection beyond narcissism ([45:46]).
  • Berlinerblau cites rare moments (“The Anatomy Lesson”) where Roth’s protagonist displays empathy, but agrees these are limited ([47:32]).
• Teaching Literature after Roth:
  • Berlinerblau is more attentive to systemic issues, avoids “winner-take-all” cultures, and diversifies syllabi ([49:49]).
  • Recommends Marlon James (“A Brief History of Seven Killings”) and others as alternatives ([51:45]).

Notable Quotes

• “For about half a millennia, professors have been calling their students dipshits ... I guess I didn't want to be that professor.” — Berlinerblau ([34:48])
• “His ability to empathize and care for other human beings is clearly lacking. This is clearly an autoerotic journey that this man has embarked on.” — Liel ([41:01])
• “Art is slimy. I take that word from Roth.” — Berlinerblau ([40:46])
• “There is a lack of empathy there on the level of the sentence.” — Berlinerblau ([47:43])

Interview #2: Hannah Stein — Jewish Identity, Hollywood, and Family Stories ([54:25]-[67:56])

Summary

Actress Hannah Stein (Shira on Netflix’s Never Have I Ever) opens up about representation, stereotypes, building a writing/acting career, and forming her adult Jewish identity through storytelling.

Major Topics

• Portraying a Stereotype:
  • “My high school was full of Jewish American princesses ... I didn't really fit the mold, but it was the reality of the popular girls.” — Hannah ([55:30])
  • She wasn't offended to play a "JAP" because it reflected her personal experience and the show is unsparing across cultures.
• Journey to Hollywood:
  • From small-town Canada to interning at Sony, then writing, pitching, and creating diverse projects, including her grandfather's Holocaust survival story ([56:43]).
  • “I want to be a multi-hyphenate. I want to write, produce, and act.” — Hannah ([57:22])
• Hollywood Hustle and Wellness:
  • Describes balancing auditions, writing, multiple jobs, and self-care routines (Pilates, meditation, ayahuasca, etc.) ([60:22], [61:07]).
• Writing and Script Development:
  • Learning from reading thousands of scripts, admiration for Mindy Kaling and Aaron Sorkin ([63:19]).
  • Describes the grind and financial realities of pre-production and pilot development.
• Jewish Identity:
  • Teen trip to Israel transformed her from "atheist" to “proud to be Jewish.”
  • “After ... understanding where my family came from and the sacrifice they went through, I’m very proud to be Jewish.” ([66:21])
  • Ongoing learning about Israel/politics (via Letters to My Palestinian Neighbor) and acknowledging challenges of contemporary antisemitism.

Notable Quotes

• “I was that intern who walked into the CEO's office ... ‘I have an idea for a movie. You want to hear it?’” — Hannah ([57:16])
• “In this crazy, superficial field, I need something just for me.” — Hannah on self-care ([63:00])
• “I'm a reformed, more secular Jew. I look at it more as a community of people.” ([67:10])
• “Honestly, [the show] makes me feel like a better Jew.” — Hannah ([67:47])

Memorable Moments & Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Description | |-----------|---------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:36 | Marc | “It’s no exit. What happens if you don’t get inscribed in the book of life? You have to podcast with Liel until Moshiach comes and raises the dead.” | | 05:03 | Liel | “If you go to shul, you get to stay there until Wednesday ... Like a scene out of Game of Thrones. Love this holiday.”| | 09:06 | Marc | “You can see their pores. You can see where their makeup line ends on their neck. It’s ridiculous.” | | 13:13 | Marc | “If we could fold the Ben and Jerry's mishigas into the lawsuit ... we could have one stop shopping for all of Unilever's problems with the Jews.” | | 20:41 | Marc | “There is something very antisemitic about this discourse ... the Jew from New York ... has to be less of the Jew from New York so that the ... Protestant ... has more space.” | | 24:20 | Liel | “It’s like a mask mandate — you want to be in society, you have to be an extrovert. If not, stay home.” | | 37:54 | Jacques | “Once we learn incriminating information about an artist, our understanding of his or her art changes radically.” | | 41:01 | Liel | “There was something deeply uncharitable, deeply unkind, deeply cutting ... about humanity ... which ... makes not only for terrible human beings, but also for terrible art.” | | 55:30 | Hannah | “My high school was full of Jewish American princesses. That was the reality of the popular girls ... I wasn't bothered by it ... because I was like, that was my high school experience.” | | 66:21 | Hannah | “After ... understanding where my family came from and the sacrifice they went through, I'm very proud to be Jewish.” |

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening / Sukkot / Hoshana Rabba: [00:02]–[06:19]
• TV technology woes / Book tour story: [06:19]–[12:02]
• News of the Jews: [12:06]–[17:42]
• Deborah Tannen & “Cooperative Overlapping”: [17:42]–[29:48]
• Interview: Jacques Berlinerblau on Philip Roth: [29:48]–[53:54]
• Interview: Hannah Stein (“Never Have I Ever”): [54:25]–[67:56]

Conclusion

This episode embodies the eclectic charm of Unorthodox: warm co-host chemistry, hilariously relatable Jewish news, deep dives into contemporary issues of culture, identity, and morality, and honest, engaging interviews with thought leaders and creatives who reveal both the challenges and the richness of Jewish modern life. If you’re curious about why Jews interrupt, how Philip Roth’s legacy is shifting, or what it truly takes to build a creative life in Hollywood while staying proudly Jewish, this episode is packed with insight—and laughter.