Dog Haus CEO on how unique new franchise model will accelerate growth

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Take-Away with Sam Oches – Dog Haus CEO on Unique New Franchise Model

Date: June 30, 2026
Guests:

• Host: Sam Oches (A/B)
• Michael Montagnino, CEO of Dog Haus (C)
  Setting: Original Dog Haus location, Pasadena, CA

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive interview with Michael Montagnino, CEO of Dog Haus, discussing the brand’s new Area Director (AD) franchise model. The conversation explores Dog Haus’ journey to this point, the thinking behind their unique franchise strategy, and how it’s designed to accelerate growth while maintaining deep cultural and operational roots. Michael and Sam also touch on Dog Haus's new beverage partnership with Dr. Pepper, the evolving landscape of fast casual, and why staying rooted in culture and hospitality is more relevant than ever.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Dog Haus’ Foundation and Evolution (03:56–06:48)

• Dog Haus has existed for 16 years with 60 locations, mostly in California.
• Survived major industry disruptions with a focus on deepening, not just widening, their roots:

  “A business or a restaurant should grow like a tree – the roots grow down at the same pace as it grows up.” — Michael (04:40)

• Recent years focused on improving unit economics:
  • Average unit volumes (AUVs) rose from $1.6M to $1.9M, aiming for $2M.
  • Reduced build costs and enhanced operational efficiencies.

2. Becoming a National Brand (07:59–09:04)

• Historically concentrated in California, Dog Haus is working to increase national brand awareness.
• Strategies include leveraging social media, partnerships (e.g. Jake Paul), and local influencer programs.

3. Scaling Culture Through the Area Director Model (09:31–15:50)

• New Area Director (AD) program: 15 operators with franchise experience from major brands (Jersey Mike’s, Dave’s Hot Chicken, Tropical Smoothie Café, etc.) to oversee territories.
• ADs:
  • Hold equity in Dog Haus.
  • Have board representation and share in royalty spread.
  • Responsible for regional growth, local adaptations, and mentoring franchisees.
• Emphasis on hospitality and community:

  “What’s made Dog Haus special is that it’s hospitality first and the culture and warmth of the founders.” — Michael (09:31)

  • ADs help localize decisions, such as choosing 18 out of 24 beers on tap based on regional preferences.
  • Recruitment focuses on ethos and cultural fit, not just financial experience (11:00).

4. How the AD Model Differs and Accelerates Growth (13:17–20:01)

• Previous model: traditional franchisees, often family-based.
• New ADs have large-scale, multi-brand experience and work as “player-coaches,” developing flagship stores and bringing in new franchisees.
• Equity and board representation aligns incentives with Dog Haus’ long-term success:

  “We architected a system that’s an ‘us and us,’ arm in arm marching towards the same North Star.” — Michael (15:50)

• Extensive, deliberate selection process to ensure cultural fit (20:30–23:01).

5. Leveraging Expertise from Top Franchise Operators (23:01–28:05)

• Access to national expertise and best practices from partners familiar with rapid scaling and operational excellence.
• Dog Haus’ patience (16 years to now) seen as necessary to solidify “who we are” before explosive growth.
• Cites parallels to Jersey Mike’s, Shake Shack, and others who matured quietly before scaling up.

6. Brand Evolution and Staying True to Core Ethos (28:05–33:50)

• Dog Haus has clarity on brand identity and won’t compromise on core values (e.g., high-protein quality, no nitrates).
• Menu optimization improved profits and efficiency without sacrificing core product elements:

  “We took 25 SKUs out of the kitchen... but what we didn’t touch in that process was our proteins, hormone free, antibiotic free, responsibly raised.” — Michael (31:13)

• Founders' family values still at the heart of the concept.

7. Dog Haus and the Future of Fast Casual (33:50–39:11)

• Positioned between fast casual and casual dining – “bar is full service; dining room is counter-service with hospitality touches.”
• Anticipates that experiential dining will be a key differentiator as transactional, convenience-driven occasions shrink:

  “That need for human interaction, we will crave more as our day jobs become less reliant on other human beings... Dog Haus is right at that intersection.” — Michael (36:00)

• Small, efficient footprints (2,000 sq ft) provide operational and cost advantages compared to typical casual dining chains.

8. Beverage Innovation and Dr. Pepper Partnership (39:49–46:19)

• New national beverage partnership with Keurig Dr. Pepper (KDP):
  • Dr. Pepper products now feature prominently (including unique offerings like Dr. Pepper Cherry and Dr. Pepper Zero).
  • Introduction of “dirty sodas,” craft non-alc and nostalgic beverage options to appeal to Gen Z and families.
• KDP's broader portfolio (Hawaiian Punch, 7Up, Sunkist, etc.) aligns with Dog Haus’s nostalgic, community-focused ethos.
• Breakfast burritos have become a surprise hit (25% of sales), with the KDP partnership enabling new morning beverage pairings.

9. Vision for the Future (46:44–49:27)

• Dog Haus seeks to create “a bigger pie” for all stakeholders: area directors, management, franchisees, beverage partners, and landlords.
• Goal: national scale (targeting up to 300 locations), consistent culture and experience, expanded brand awareness and marketing, and continual innovation.
• Michael’s aspiration:

  “In three years... have the same culture, same ethos, delivering the same core product... but scale that to all 50 states and as close to 300 units as we can responsibly.” — Michael (47:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dog Haus’s foundation:
  “A business... should grow like a tree – the roots grow down at the same pace as it grows up.” — Michael (04:40)
• On partnership with area directors:
  “We architected a system that's an ‘us and us,’ arm in arm marching towards the same North Star.” — Michael (15:50)
• On selecting AD partners:
  “It wasn’t just recruitment or selection. It was like a dating process... It does make that process of getting to know each other critical.” — Michael (21:09)
• On maintaining brand ethos:
  “We know who we are. A lot of brands that grow too fast don’t really know who they are.” — Michael (28:05)
• On the importance of experience:
  “That need for human interaction, we will crave more and more.” — Michael (36:00)
• On the Dr. Pepper partnership:
  “We entered a long-term partnership with Keurig Dr. Pepper. It just fits that ethos and hospitality you were talking about.” — Michael (40:34)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:56 — Dog Haus roots, evolution, and building a foundation
• 07:59 — Transition into national brand strategy and social awareness
• 09:31 — Scaling hospitality and local adaptations via Area Directors
• 13:17 — AD model details: equity, board presence, player-coach approach
• 20:30 — Partner selection as a slow, relationship-driven process
• 23:26 — Learning from franchise experts to avoid pitfalls
• 28:05 — Maintaining core identity and culture while growing
• 33:50 — Industry view: Fast casual “2.0” and the experience economy
• 39:49 — Dr. Pepper partnership and beverage innovation
• 46:44 — Future vision: ambitious but sustainable national growth

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Episode Tone & Style

Open, optimistic, and strategic. Michael speaks candidly about challenges, lessons, and the discipline required to scale purposefully. There’s a clear reverence for hospitality, culture, and the value of partnership throughout. The host maintains an inquisitive, collegial tone, drawing out both practical insights and big-picture strategy for restaurant leaders.

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Key Takeaways for Restaurant Operators

• Grow purposefully: Focus on deep, sustainable roots before rapid expansion.
• Partner up: Invest heavily in the right local operators ("player-coaches"), align incentives, and foster true collaboration between franchisor and franchisee.
• Stay true to brand DNA: Optimize and evolve, but don’t sacrifice core values or product standards.
• Balance efficiency and experience: Aim for a streamlined footprint with high-quality, engaging hospitality.
• Innovate with intention: Whether in food, beverage, or marketing, seek out partnerships and ideas aligned with your ethos and your customers’ needs.

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Transcript

[A]

Are you a leader at an emerging restaurant chain that's ready to level up? Then create. The event for emerging restaurateurs is your ultimate destination. This July 20th through 22nd, join your fellow restaurant entrepreneurs for three action packed days of connection, inspiration and growth. Meet potential new partners through our speed Dating Style one to one meetings and get face to face with potential investors at the Investment Summit. Keynote speakers include Netflix star Phil Rosenthal, Chipotle founders Steve Ells and Panda Express founders Andrew and Peggy Cheung. This one of a kind restaurant event is set against the stunning backdrop of Terranea Resorts California coastline and hey, bring the whole family for vacation while you're at it. By registering for Create Today you'll unlock specially discounted prices for Disneyland. Don't miss your chance to connect, innovate and grow your business. Register for create [e-mail] welcome to Takeaway with Sam Okas, a podcast for leaders of growing restaurant companies looking to their businesses to the next level. In nearly two decades covering restaurants, I've gained access to some of this industry's most influential decision makers and I'm letting you in on the conversations. In today's episode, you'll hear from the CEO of a fast casual franchise about its unique new growth model and learn about how franchisors and franchisees can be more aligned on their path to success. Michael Mantagano is the CEO of Doghouse, a California based concept serving high quality burgers, brats and hot dogs at 60 locations across the country. While Doghouse has been around now for 16 years and it's been franchising for most of that time, the company just launched a unique new Area Director program that will bring in 15 ads who will help Doghouse accelerate growth in their territories. Those ads who are bringing franchise experience from much bigger brands like Jersey Mike's and Tropical Smoothie Cafe will get equity in the brand as well as a presence on the board. As Doghouse looks to establish a relationship with franchisees that is much deeper than the typical franchise arrangement. I sat down with Michael in the original Doghouse location in Pasadena, California to learn more about how this new ad program could help Doghouse grow to 300 locations and beyond. And we even talk about Doghouse's unique new beverage relationship with Dr. Pepper. In this conversation, you will learn more about why area directors are like player coaches who can level up the brand, why there's no deadline for ramping up growth, and why an experiential concept in a streamlined footprint equals future restaurant success. If you learned something from this episode Go follow Takeaway wherever you listen to podcasts and leave some feedback, it is the best way to get these lessons into the hands of fellow restaurant leaders. By the way, if you want to learn more from Michael about Doghouse's approach to franchising, he will be speaking on the subject at our upcoming CREATE event for emerging restaurateurs this July 20th through 22nd at the Terranea Resort in Rancho Palos Verdes, California. Jumping now into my interview with Doghouse's Michael Montagu. Know also, don't forget to stick around after the interview as I will share my five takeaways from this discussion. Actionable insights that you can take with you on the go.

[B]

Michael Montagu, the CEO of Dog Doghouse thanks for sitting down with me today.

[C]

Thanks for joining us here at the

[B]

Original Dog the Original Doghouse in Old Pasadena, California. This is very exciting because we're going to talk about a big evolution in the life of Doghouse as a brand. Obviously 16 years now this has been this business has been around that this opened up. Right.

[A]

So I think probably people are well

[B]

familiar with what Doghouse is as a business, as a brand. But you guys are really kind of ready to blow the roof off this thing in a big way, which we're going to get into. Set the stage for me now though. Doghouse over 16 years. What's the state of things pre the news we're going to get into, what's the state of things for Doghouse?

[C]

Yeah, look, I mean the reason I was attracted to brand first as an investor board member and then eventually the CEO over the past three years was that the foundation of the brand has been remarkable. What founders have done, Andre, Hago and Kassam. Nothing short of amazing. If you think about 15, 16 years trailing what our industry has went through or just the macro impacts on society in general through 2011, 2008, 2009, evolving into Covid. And through all that, what makes the brand truly special is that my dad always said this by the way too. So I'm stealing it from from them is that a business or a restaurant should grow like a tree and that the roots grow down at the time same the same pace that it grows up almost three years.

[B]

Well that's good.

[C]

And so it can sustain whatever storm comes its way, whether it's financial crisis, whether it's Covid, whatever macro impacts which our industry tends to feel more than the average. Right. And that this business is unique in that it has grown down at a much faster pace than it has grown up and it's the thoughtfulness that the founders set to this first three stores which were, you know, they were in these stores operating them and understanding like what it takes to operate a unique business model which we call craft, cash, experience, full service at the bar and order from the Calgary for the dining room where we're sitting. But and then the franchisees, many of them are family members. And so the thoughtfulness about, you know, how to think through what a system looks like as they went from the three corporate stores to eventually franchising and then growing the business is nothing short of remark. And so I looked at it and thought, okay, you've got this deep root system of infrastructure and an amazing quality product which underpins the entire thing. What it's hungry for is growth. And it has, you know, an easier pathway to growing up because of the ecosystem that had grown down over 15 years. And so everything that we've done over the past few years leading up to this moment has been how do we prove repair, how do we turn these knobs to be ready for more of that explosive growth. And so the first was taking a step back and saying we have good unit economics, how do we make them for good and great industry leading. And so we've seen AUVs rise from 1.6 to 1.9. We're on a pathway to two. We've taken build costs materially down, refactored efficiency measures in the kitchen, in cost of goods sold to make profitability even stronger for our franchisees. Kind of that core unit economic of being we would consider to be not just great, but astounding.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that we could earn the trust, respect, ultimately buy in of the national franchisees that can take us to the next 12 days they ever. So we focused on that then we focused on, you know, we're 60 units across the country, we're in 12 states, but that's not an even distribution between states. We're heavily concentrated here in California, where we are now third of our system sits mostly here in Southern California. And we've got fantastic stores. Some of the best stores in the System are the one store we have in Utah, in Sanity Utah. Leading AUVs in our system, despite not open on Sundays and not having not selling alcohol. We have fantastic store in Centennial just outside of Denver, that is the only store in the state. And so on a straw but limited marketing fund. How do we raise brand awareness throughout the country? Not just in California where you can trip into a doghouse, but you know, in other parts of the country, particularly, particularly areas that we want to not only grow in, but, but open up freshly like Florida, Georgia. So. And so we needed to become a national brand.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so we thought outside the box on how do you do that? Mostly reining into social. Not just the big partnership with Jake Paul, which obviously helped do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But also influencers at the food level in our LDO program with Josh Elkin and then just day to day management on social media and ultimately how we then, you know, take a lot of that content and syndicate it on, on various advertising channels to raise awareness. Yeah, all of that. That's kind of step one. And then step two was to lead into really elevating the leadership. We have a fantastic leadership team with amazing tenure here. How do we supplement and add to that in a unique way, which is to bring franchisees into the leadership team and national franchisees that have that experience to really dovetail both the franchisor experience with some franchisee experience, create more aligned incentives, a better feedback loop. Then step four, which is to roll out nationally with an ad program, married director program, and really hit the gas on that.

[B]

Okay, so to this point in time, doghouse over 16 years has really evolved with the times. I mean, it was ahead of the ghost kitchen trend. And also, I mean, when you look at this space, it's really kind of

[A]

divey and grungy in a great way.

[B]

But Doghouse is really good about being kind of a chameleon in the locations it moves into. But where I'm going with this is, you know, what does that mean for as Doghouse grows, what it hopes to represent to new customers?

[A]

What's the message it's bringing to new guests?

[C]

Yeah. You know, look, what's made Dog House special from the first time this store was open was is that it's hospitality first and it's the culture and warmth of the founders. You know, some of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the tricky part of any brand is how do you scale that warmth, that culture across the country as you grow? And a lot of that has been about the franchisee selection. A lot of that has been about, you know, the focus on the cuisine and putting food and guests first. And that's why we think this next evolution in the Doghouse brand is so important in that our area director programs, 15 area directors across the country, each responsible for a different territory. Every one of them are absolute experts in their particular trade areas. They have in some cases hundreds if not buzzies of restaurants. Most of them have multi brands. They are operational experts, they're marketing experts, very specific to different territories. And so as we grow, what's important is to be able to take our brand and continue to adapt it to local communities where they feel that same warmth. It's the spot that you come after the AYSO game with your kids. It's the spot that you come with your buddies who watch NFL Sunday ticket and sit at the bar. You feel welcome. It feels like a second home. And a key to being able to scale that is partnering with local experts in each one of these communities that one have been highly vetted and understand what our culture is. We focus less on bank account size and less on experience and more on kind of core ethos and hospitality and core cultural fit with the brand and then helping them democratize and evangelize our brand to these different communities in very unique ways of tailoring who we are to these very unique areas. Part of it comes in just the core mechanics of the brand. For example, you see 24 beers on tap. Six of those are nationally mandated. Eighteen of those are at the franchisees discretion which we help them in tailoring those with local brewers and unique fits to the community. In some cases whole brew, in some cases seltzers, in some cases microbrews and IPAs. And so making it really feel that craft casual feel that has a connection to the orchid community, the same as in the decor. Not only the spot to hard root the 49ers and if you're in Northern California or the Cowboys if you're in Texas, but also a connection to the local high schools and the local communities like here in Pasadena. It is my son and his friend's favorite spot to eat because we're at their word, their festivals that they throw in the spring. And it's evangelizing the brand to the community and being a true part of it. And so we believe the unlock that we've been successful at over the past 15 years and doing that in the select communities that we're in can be scaled and democratized in a way that has never been done before by leveraging this ad model throughout the country. So we cannot be more excited about scaling that way by staying true to kind of our ethos and who we are.

[B]

So let's get to it. I mean, this is the news you guys have to announce is really built around that sort of growth model, the franchising strategy that you have. Tell me what you're coming from and what you're going to as far as, as what was the franchise model before, who you were recruiting as franchisees? What's.

[A]

How does this New model that you

[B]

guys think is going to be really lead to explosive growth. How does it change? Kind of that strategy?

[C]

Yeah, look. So to start, we have wonderful franchisees across the country. We're so blessed. They've done a fantastic job, as founders put it, with their baby and being able to really take that doghouse culture and bring it to new parts of the. Of of the country. The next evolution, Doghouse. In some cases, these franchisees will be a part of that AV program, but it's being able to bring in partners that have that national brand expertise, the access to capital, the local experience within these regions of scaling to dozens, if not hundreds of stores within these trade areas. And so what that comes with is, is franchisees that are truly remarkable. I can't wait to announce, you know, our slate of the 15 area directors that are joining us. We'll do that in segments of five, starting with the east coast and then the Midwest and then the West Coast. But these are some of the largest franchisees in the country. They come from brands like Jersey Mike's, Dave's Hot Chicken, tropical smoothie cafe, etc. That are very experienced, have a lot of operational knowledge that we work together as partners. And I think that's what makes this truly interesting is other people have rolled out area director programs before. And yes, part of who we brought into our leadership are fantastic franchisees from the Jersey Mike system, both very large national franchisees. One joining as chief Operating officer, the other joining as president, Chief Development Officer. What comes along with that, though, is a plethora of franchisee experience to really marry and incentivize and ensure that mutual incentives are in place between franchisor and franchise. They see like they haven't really done in the past. So our area directors are equity holders in the business. They share in the royalty spread with the. With the company in their particular trade areas. They have representation on the board. We have people in management that I just referenced that are from the franchisee community. So we're really walking arm in arm towards our north star goal of 300 units. And it's no longer in us versus them. And we never felt that in our culture at Doghouse, but we know the franchise community can sometimes feel that way.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

And instead, what we figured, what we architected was a system that's in us and us, arm and arm marching towards the same North Star. That's because everyone across the board wins when each other wins. There's not a scenario in which revenue is super good, and that means royalties are really strong, but Maybe earnings is suffering. Everyone's aligned mutually to successfully walk in lockstep towards our goal. And that's what's materially different, I think from this program compared to what's historically been launched in the system. And that's really what we're rolling out this spring and throughout the ISO.

[B]

So area directors, you know, you talk about this being us and us, you guys are growing alongside each other. You also mentioned that you have 15 you're gonna announce that are part of this program. Are these 15, are these the ones that will grow, be a part of

[A]

this for the long term?

[B]

Are you adding on top of the 15 over time? What does that process look like about adding new partners to this mix?

[C]

Yeah, so they are the core. So they are kind of the center of, of the onion, so to speak. And, and what's so important about them is that they have that regional expertise from local area marketing for real estate, construction, overall operations. They've got levels of management that already administratively helps oversee their dozens, if not hundreds of stores within those territories. And I think what makes it, you know, truly special is that they then become equity holders in the company. They have representation on the board. The feedback loop between what's happening on the ground and the decisions being made is immediate. Not to mention, you know, our new CEO and our chief development officer and president have a 50 unit deal and they've already opened up their first store in that deal. So the feedback loop from their operations and what they're seeing is clearly immediate in making the right decisions for the brand longer term. So they are the core now in each one of their territories they have 100 unit territories. They have to self develop a portion of those. Those are normally the beachheads within their various territories that will be training centers. They'll also be kind of marquee locations for perfecting operations, perfecting local area marketing. Just like the store that recently opened in San Fernando is our CLO and chief development officers store. That's where the new optimized menus rolled out or the new beverage program is rolled out and things are tested alongside our corporate stores to really understand the impact before it's rolled out to the larger system. This will happen regionally across these 15 regions by our ads in their home stores. Then it is their expertise and oversight that will help bring in franchisees, that they will then be responsible for coaching and helping assist to become excellent franchisees within those territories. So in some cases it could be 20 self developed from the other, some cases it could be a little bit less or A little bit more. But the ADs are your principal franchisees within those territories. Then they get to be player coaches in helping not only recruit, but cultivate develop the next generation of amazing franchisees. That's why we believe this model is really true to the core doghouse culture, which was we wanted to empower local entrepreneurs to become excellent restaurateurs and franchisees. We've done that across the country. Whether it's Maryland with five stores or Chicago with four stores, or Phoenix with four stores and so forth. Excellent franchisees. They may be hitting ceilings. And so what are we doing to not only help the brand grow in those areas, but help them grow. And so part of that means giving up royalty and sharing that with our ads to say, please help our Chicago franchisee become even stronger and at the same time develop the suburbs and bring in other people downstate in Illinois, up through Michigan and so forth. So that's the idea, is that you're bringing in the highest powered, most sophisticated franchisees to be players and also be coaches.

[B]

Right. I mean, that's a big important relationship. Right. I mean, you know, this is walking arm in arm with these folks means that you got to really be sure these are the right partners. Now, you mentioned some of the brands are coming from Dave's and Jersey, Mike's and Tropical Smoothie, all obviously great brands that have been validated at the national level. So you have some assurances that these folks know what they're doing at a business perspective. But you talk about those roots, you talk about the culture. I imagine you have to spend a lot of time of knowing who is the right partner for this. Tell me about the selection of these people.

[C]

Yeah. And look, even today where we're announcing this and we're super excited about it, this is a two year process. You know, it wasn't overnight. The first conversation started over two years ago. And it wasn't just obviously with me or the management team, but the board, the founders, Jake and Nikisa, you know, our endorsement partners. All of them participated in this process of, I wouldn't call it recruitment or I wouldn't call it selection. I would call it, you know, a dating process with, you know, potential new partners in the business. I mean, it's a big thing.

[A]

Yeah. When you think about.

[C]

It's very permanent.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When someone owns part of the business, it's less permanent in a vendor relationship. And so you think, you know, what is. Where should this be? As we thought, through what the franchisor franchisee relationship should be be. You have franchisees that are, you know, quite permanent.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Personal guarantees on leases, borrowing money, spending their own money, employing people, in some cases hundreds of people in their communities, where they're from. That's pretty terminal. Yeah. For them. And how do we make it where we're in? People walking arm in arm. How do we make it permanent for all of us? And so, you know, that's what we aim to do with this program. It does make that process of, you know, getting to know each other critical.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And that's why we really took our time with. I think a lot of people would rush into it. Hey, we've got 15 to fill. Sprint into them, you know, tomorrow, find the first 15 people. Not the case at all. It was a highly selective process. It took lots of diligence both ways, because we also wanted our partners, Bikewise, to know everything about us. And that's, you know, takes a week with faith and saying, hey, we're going to open the books. We want you to see the things that we think are great about our brand and where the opportunities are in the brand. And we want to find fits where you help accentuate and solve the opportunities and on the things that we do well that, that you'll evangelize that and stay true to that core culture. And so, so far, it's been fantastic. And a lot of the announcements that we're making are things that have been cooking for a while in the system, just like our new management announcements that we've made. They've been part of the brand for several months, a lot of their initiatives already underway, and it's been just a fantastic transition process to bring them in.

[B]

I imagine what you learned from these folks, I mean, think about it, especially just Jersey Mike's pulling that as an example. I mean, that brand has been a rocket ship the last. I mean, it's been around 50 years, but it's been a rocket ship the last 10 of those. I imagine the lessons you pull from somebody who's been steeped in that culture, not like you're trying to steal from them, but like, you just. You bring so many assets from other leading brands. How do you plan to really lean into some of that expertise from these ads?

[C]

Look, I think it is the secret sauce. I mean, some would look at the, you know, the, you know, fascination with the model would be, wow, it's an acceleration to growth, it's access. These, you know, partners have access to a whole new level of capital and, and, and operating leverage and so forth. It's undeniable. That's a component of the model. But the true value of the model is the decades of experience that they're bringing on how this is done right and how it's done wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And avoiding the mistakes is important as accelerating on the things that, that are likely to yield results for us. And if you can, you know, take in a microcosm of a, of a focus group and say everything that is great about Jersey Mike's and, and everything that is great about Dave's Not Chicken and everything that is great about Tropical Smoothie Cafe and everything that is great about Wingstop and, and everything that's great about Chili's and you know, all the different, you know, brand theaters and then also the things that maybe would be a faster path to where they got if we, if we didn't have to do these things. And I say, and so that group of ads, including our new additions to management, are really an incredible unlock on the knowledge side and on the strategy and planning side that we develop. And so our plan to get to 300 is predicated on days, hours, months, years of communication, strategy, information sharing on how to architect this plan for the future in lockstep and has that kind of joint buy in. And so we're obviously thrilled about that. We believe that's why this is positioned for great success going forward. And it's why we feel like now's the time. Time to really turn on the gas that like all the pieces are in place for this next evolution of growth. I'll tell you what's astounding. Some would say 15 years or 16 years, like, you know, that's, that's a long time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, to be thinking about growth now. Why not earlier? If you look at the best brands in the industry, and you were just pointing this out with Jersey Mike's, and if you look at, you know, people like Shake Shack and Chili's, when they ultimately hit that canes, when they hit that evolution of growth was right about this time, you know, and I think it's because the founders, whether it was Danny or Todd or Peter or kind of others, very thoughtful about making sure that you're calling the right levers adjusting and pivoting on mistakes to where you hit that critical mass of whether it's 10, 15 or 20 years.

[A]

Right.

[C]

There's a moment in time where you're ready and then all of a sudden that next five years shows growth that you could never even imagine was possible.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, time ago, other brands, I think, rush into this space.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

And they don't Survive.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And we've seen that, you know, even in this community. And so I think that that's something that the founders were so thoughtful about, partly because I think some of the franchisees were family and friends. It's like you kind of, you know, you have some so much writing on it that you wait for this right moment in time. And that's where phase one of the unit economics, phase two of really becoming a national brand, phase three of putting the right leadership team in place and now having the right program for our franchisees to really hit the gas. We feel like we can scale that culture the right way where it's sustainable for the future.

[B]

Yeah, it's funny, I mean, Canes, Jersey, Mike's, those brands especially felt like such quiet success stories, but it's just because for a long time we weren't really paying attention. Kind of almost feels like pushing the boulder up the mountain.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And you push that boulder up the mountain to a certain point and then you reach the apex and then you roll it down and that just snowballs.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And in the best possible way. But you know, it's funny because, you know, you're talking about that Doghouse. I'm so used to calling Doghouse an emerging brand, but it's like it's been around 16 years. I mean, it's a pretty mature brand. It's not emerging anymore.

[A]

60 look locations.

[B]

And I'm just wondering, you know, or, but if you think about like Dave's has only been around for eight years, nine years at this point.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, it was a little bit of a unicorn where it was that rocket ship right out of the gate. But this 16 years in business for Doghouse, that maturation process, that pushing the boulder up the mountain brings a lot of its own positive lessons and advantages. I would say, obviously you talk about the founders and what they bring to this. So kind of on the flip side of my last question is, you know, what, what does the maturation of Doghouse bring to the table for these ads coming in? The magic that happens there based on the, you know, coming from the Doghouse side of things, I guess I'll tell

[C]

you it's very simple. It's, we know who we are. And I think a lot of brands that grow too fast don't really know who they are. You know, the rocket ship's still being built and it's in the air and then really becomes susceptible to bigger changes, a management change, an investor charge can completely pivot the business or sideline the business or destroy it. Right. Our core ethos is quite clear. That's where, you know, I started with the, the roots are so deep that it doesn't mean that we're not agile. We're still an agile company. We're still a speedboat, not a barge barge, but which allows us to react to market conditions much, much faster. But we know exactly why we win, we know exactly in cases, why we haven't. And so that allows us to better have that foundation to build off of and to take those scale expertises that they're bringing to the table to something that's ready to be scaled. I think that's the big hurdle that restaurants, brands find is if they don't know who they are and they're not ready to scale and they try to scale, there's a lot of operational problems and I think we see lots of pullback and we've seen that. And if, you know, as Warren Buffett said, you know, when another way of talking about kind of the roots is that, you know, when the tide goes out, you know, who's from the naked, when the macro conditions become challenging in the restaurant industry and you scale too fast, it's collapse. And so I think what makes this special is that the foundation is strong, our identity is incredibly strong. And I'll give you a quick example of that. We just went through an optimization on our menu. Then Garn, our new coo, in tandem with Hago, our founder, who has not only created but has run the culinary program. We look to optimize back a house, we look to optimize the menu and cost of goods sold to yield better earnings for our franchisees and just a quicker, more efficient process that results in better accuracy and faster food and all the things that make customers happy. We took 25 SKUs out of the kitchen, which is, yeah, it's a lot. But what we didn't touch in that process was our proteins, hormone free, antibiotic free, responsibly raised things that I think, you know, some outside partners would come in and attack right away, you know, like, oh, this is low hanging fruit for bringing that up. But that's the core ethos of who we are. That's why our customers come to our restaurants. It's. Yeah, you know, this company was founded, you know, Andre's wife was pregnant with their child and it was, how do we have that craveable food that we would feel comfortable with our wives eating while pregnant with our soon to be child or children.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But also not put poison in their body, but give them that craveable cheat day. And like that's special and that's the core ethos. And so we're not going to part ways with that despite wanting to drive earnings because we know who we are. Our, you know, custom hot dog, one, you know, should stay the same, it should remain nitrate free. Continue to use Creekstone Farms, you know, some of the best meat out there. So that is according to the wooden change Kings Hawaiian is another key component to what all our food is served on. So how do we think through what the form factor is from King Swine that we're getting and not the, not the correctation profile all these things were to. So what we're adding on is really optimizations to kind of the core eos of the brand that has resulted in incredible signals to the bottom line. Door franchisees. It's been rolled out to about a third of the system so far and people are over the moon. And not only did we make it simpler that the mouse, not only did we see meaningful savings in cost of goods sold, customers are happy, the food tastes better, the offering is, is, is brought current without sacrificing, you know, their favorites. And so part of that is qualitative. A lot of it is quantitative and looking at the data and being able to be intelligent about the decisions that are being made. But I think that's an example of, of how the brand is going to steer responsible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To that end, I mean, evolution, brand evolution necessary for any business out there. I'm sure you've experienced it at your past companies. I mean, you, you have to evolve. You don't have to change your ethos or your, your DNA, but you do have to evolve with the times. When you look through, you know, the last 16 years, in Doghouse's 16 years, I mean, there have been a lot of evolutions that have happened to this industry and fast casual in particular. I find this is a really interesting moment for fast casual because Doghouse was born about the advent of, you know, the original wave of fast casual. Right, right at the time a lot of other businesses came up. You know, you go through the teens where you have a lot of quality

[A]

improvements, then you go through Covid, where

[B]

there's a pivot to ghost kitchens, there's a pivot to convenience and access. And I think we're coming back around to a quality piece to fast casual that's going to be even more important. So it feels like Doghouse is kind of uniquely set up for what's to come for fast casual, in my opinion. I'm Curious from your opinion, like where this business is positioned to capitalize on what's happening to fast casual in the present and future.

[C]

Well, I like your opinion. It's a very good look. I think the restaurant industry is going to face some really unique tailwinds and headwinds in the coming months. Not, you know, days that we're seeing, particularly with the entrance of geoport. And now that you see one in eight Americans trying it, a portion of that, regulars with it and seeing success with it, how is that going to impact orange classications before eating less food? And who are going to be the winners and losers in that new normal? I tend to think we as a brand are incredibly positioned for this. Some by happenstance, I think, some by thought. But this is not really a fast casual brand. Right. It is a blend between casual dining and fast casual. For example, at the bar right here, it's full service. There's a tab created. They're ordering directly from a bartender. That bartender is serving them both food and drink. They're checking in on them. Then they get a tab again, that feels a lot like that. Here in the dining room, you're ordering from the counter, which is usually that same bartender. And then the food is brought out to you, but the food is clear. Someone is usually coming and checking in with a handheld on. Can I get you another beer? Know, do you need another sauce for your fries? Whatever it may, all you need to make that, you know, hospitality experience even better. Right? That's not exactly fast casual. Right. And so while that has been at times a challenge over the last 15 years is to figure out what is your footing and kind of sitting in between casual diet and fast casual. I don't think there's a better spot to be sitting in the new normal. And I'll tell you why. So part of it is the same is that dining experiences will go down, transactions will go down. What's being hit today we're seeing is QSR and delectables, I think are taking a good part of that hit. Those are impulse buy decisions, more transactional relationships that customers are having with food. What isn't being impacted is what we did today, which is sitting down and breaking bread and having a dial and having that warm food feeling of what it's like to be a human being. Not talk to an AI bot, you know, not be behind a computer screen or even Zoom or phone calls or in your Excel Docker, but actually having human interaction, the need for that human interaction. We will crave that more and more. And More as our day jobs become less and less and less reliant on other human beings. The same standpoint, we're eating less throughout the day. And those transactional, you know, sandwich while you're working will go down. So that the apex of that or the intersection of that will ultimately be places where people can come and break bread and have a great time. Where they can watch the game in an ambiance. You always full bar in the experience where they feel comfortable and excited and happy and are really enjoying that bite that they it that needs to be even more special. Our food is. Is quite special. It is a very elevated version of Americana in a chef driven way where that bite is like nothing you've ever had before. Along with a beer or non alcoholic beer or a dirty soda or whatever it is that is unique to sit at, you know, a great environment at a. At a fun table with great music and. And great programming to be able to have that human connection and experience. Now while. So we've always offered. That is the core ethos of who Dog House is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that those occurrences will go up while the other occurrences will go down. It's almost certain the second part of that, the unlock which I think is the hack on this. And this is the section of fast casuals that other restaurants offer that you know, brisket, Chili's, Buffalo Wild Wings, fine dining. There's other casual dining places that Roadhouse and others that do a fantastic job of offering an experience. However, those are big stores.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

There are millions of dollars to him. The labor that's required to service those stores and to reach those levels of hospitality is extraordinarily high. So the labor model is. The development costs are huge. And so what Dog House does is it takes what we can serve you on better experience than that. But we compact it in 2,000 square feet so that the build costs are a fraction of the cost. So to open one is a lot less. To operate one is materially lighter because of the labor model. Utilities, other fixed, you know, the fixed occupancy cost that goes along with the rent. And so your, your, your cost structure is less, your investment is less. But you're tapping into that. What is required I think to be successful restaurant is how do you really, you know, make core to your business is that hospitality and that experience, that customer is what they're going to ultimately create. It'll probably be the only dining experiences that they really have out going forward.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Will be in something like this. And so we feel like we're right at that intersection, a fast casual labor and development model with a casual dining customer first great hospitality experience where people will want to actually hang out in the future when dining experience and transactions go down. So yeah, we think the brand is perfectly positioned. So I agree with you and I do think there's going to be some massive headwinds in the industry. But I think, you know, our roots are deep enough to sustain staying into that storm. And I think for us and for other select brands like us, they'll actually be tailored.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You say experience a lot. I mean, to me it just seems like experience is part of the value equation now. So it's not just the price point from the QSR that's more transactional. It's not just the, you know, quality of the food. It's kind of all of the above like you're saying with hospital and all those things. You mentioned dirty soda. We have to talk about your evolution in beverage specifically because. Because you guys have big news now where you are partnering with Dr. Pepper now for your beverage program and that's going to include dirty sodas. I mean very on trend for this industry right now. What you're doing with beverage. Tell me a little bit more about that.

[C]

Yeah, I think it is definitely a different decision than many have made. I think most people choose red as in Coke or blue as in, as in Pepsi and red and blue.

[B]

That's our country these days.

[C]

We're I think right in the middle with purple and, and so we entered into a long term partnership with Keurig, Dr. Pepper. We think it just fits that ethos and hospitality that you were talking about and just a great cultural fit with the brand. Just like at the bar where you know, they're localized brands and they're nostalgic brands that people can, you know, uniquely get at a doghouse, whether it's, you know, a micro brew or more unique choice alongside the hits. Yeah, our beverage program for non alk was never there and we thought how do we emulate that same experience that people come into our stores at scale with about 20% of sales is alcohol within our stores. Even in this, you know, alcohol pullback environment, that number continues to stay quite as strong. But how do we emulate that with our non out program in particular soda program? And that's where the partnership with Dr. Pepper came in. Obviously we've seen Dr. Pepper as a brand just explode over the last five years. If you talk to the Gen Z audience, I know I referenced my son a lot, but him and his friends, it's all they want to basically drink if they're going to drink soda. And we think there's unique partnership and not only being the first to have Dr. Pepper cherry on the soda machine, but also Dr. Pepper Zero continues to run. Dr. Pepper itself is doing fantastic. Using that to create a dirty soda program to offer more unique craft offerings with our soda is important, but also Dr. Pepper secretly, I'm not, you know, here to help Dr. Pepper sell their product, but what was attracted to us was that they secretly acquired these nostalgic brands that we loved as kids, like 7up, Hawaiian Punch, Sunkist, even in the west Coast, Cactus, Kool Aid, A and W Root Beer, Stewart's Root Beer, Canada Dry. You know, brands that. That's like my childhood. You know, that's. That's what I associate with and what kind of what is old is new. And to have that nostalgic feel and then to put our twist on it where not only is it on the fountain, it's, you know, in nostalgic glass bottles where we're creating alcohol beverages out of them. Dirty sodas, which are non alk with, you know, creamers and different, different flavorings that make them special for that Gen Z audience. But again, how do we make it feel craft? How do we make it feel specialized? How is it nostalgic? Yours is somewhere if you want to hang out. And this new partnership with cure Dr. Pepper, while some may view is a little unorthodox or risky, fits perfect with our profile. Then you add in the tractor bubblers, you know, the biggest growth engines right now on non elk or lemonade and iced tea. You layer that in with some mango flavor and some other things that are truly special. On Bubbler, we think, you know, watch raising tames just, you know, what they do with lemonade is unbelievable. We think there's a big opportunity for that within our stores. Bickley is an alternative to soda for some of the families that prefer for their kids not to drink soda. And then, you know, a big thing that we stumbled into during COVID was our breakfast burritos now make up 25% of sales around our system. And it's mostly a morning day part. We've never had a good parent, you know, with that. And so while ticket volume continues to be off the charts, it's a fantastic thing to wake up to. Every morning ticket has been, you know, a little bit lighter than our traditional doghouse ticket. So how do we create attachments that people want to engage with at breakfast for coffee? And so Keurig, part of Keurig Dr. Pepper offers us, you know, incredible selection of cold brews and other coffee options that we're going to bring in to have new selection for our guests as well as Lake Loam in cans that will allow our customers that are ordering that for delivery to have unique selections to go along with that. So to us it just felt like a really nice fit broadly across everything that we're doing, not to mention traditional. KBP has a very nice selection of mixers behind the bar, so allows us to even elevate our bar experience with mixed cocktails and so forth. Kind of hit every aspect of the business. We're thrilled. I know that KDP is equally as thrilled. Depending on when you decide to publish this, the CEO of Kirk Dr. Pepper will ultimately pour the first Dr. Pepper at our store in Arlington. And so it's a fantastic partnership. And then the last piece I will add is that NFL Sunday Ticket has been an incredible success for us on Sundays with NFL Saturdays are a big opportunity for us and Dr. Pepper basically owns college football. You know, I'm not looking to make any, any enemies in NFL, but I'm a college football fanatic. I think it's just running, you know, the new format has, has done so well with the playoffs and so it's a strong partnership with them around college football. So there'll be a lot of co branding in the stores, find opportunities for our guests to be able to participate in games and giveaways and to make it not only the spot to watch the game on Sundays, even better spot to watch the game on Saturdays. We think that'll, that'll add a lot of new traffic media stores.

[B]

I mean, partnership seems to be the theme of this conversation. You guys partnership with kdp, a new one there. Didn't even talk about your partnership with Jake Paul. You have, which has been, you know, a great benefit for you guys. Now these new partnerships with, in this ad program. Michael, last question for you. You know, if you and I sit down here three years from now in Pasadena, we're talking about this ad program, how it blew the lid off this thing.

[A]

What's.

[B]

Where is Dog House at at that point? What, what's your best case scenario for what's going to happen to the brand here in the coming years?

[C]

Yeah, well, you're right about. We believe that historically the industry is focused on arguing over slices of the pie instead of trying to make the pie bigger. And we think this is, you know, in perfect opportunity to make the pie bigger, whether it's with our ads, whether it's with new members of management and leadership, whether it's with new partners strategically on the commercial site, new landlords that we're engaging with now for national rollouts that are super attractive to the brand. Based on some of the new AV profiles that are coming in. All of it is about, you know, making the pie bigger and bigger and bigger so everybody can eat, not, not trying to fight over, you know, that last piece of pepperoni. And so that, that is the theme of the business. That is the vision that we've been architecting over the last three years. That is the playbook that we intend to run over the next three. What this brand looks like in three years from now is to have the same culture, have the same ethos, deliver to the same core product to our guests, have our guests just as happy as they've ever, ever been, but consistently scale that to all 50 states, scale that to as close to 300 units as we can responsibly. And ensuring that same quality experience for our guests, for our franchisees, for our team, stays the same and only is enhanced by the growth. And part of that means more marketing dollars, more brand awareness, more fun initiatives that we're doing. Jcaul being just the tip of the iceberg, we can't wait for the next one that we launch and roll out and just fun things that we can do to enhance the guest experience and to maximize franchisee success and profitability. That's the goal. That's why we got to make the point high Vicker. And we think we can get there at scale within the next three years. What? And all throughout that process, doing right by the three guys that took a risk to go turn hot dogs at the Rose Bowl 15 years ago and now have, you know, scaled it into a formidable business and to take that same legacy and scale it into a national brand that we all can be proud of, not only from a legacy standpoint, but from, you know, a standpoint of. Of that we can make people's lives happier every single day that that choose to trust us with their dining experience.

[B]

It's exciting to watch. Can't wait to come back to Pasadena and see how things are going in a couple of years. I'm sure we'll talk before that, though. Michael Montagu Know, CEO of Dog House. Appreciate your time.

[C]

Thank you, sir.

[A]

That was my interview with Doghouse's Michael Montagu know. So what should you learn from this interview? Here are my five takeaways. My first takeaway is that franchisees should be experts in their trade areas. Now this might seem like beating a dead horse. This is something we talk about all the time. Anytime we talk to a franchisor specifically about franchising, this topic comes up. Your franchisee must know their community well so that you can leverage that relationship in the community. Okay, but let's take this to another level, because what Doghouse is doing with their area directors is essentially tapping into not just people who know the area, but also people who have run businesses in the area. In fact, these area directors that are coming in to partner with Doghouse are running substantially large businesses in designated territories where they know the ins and outs of what it takes to run a business. The relationships are great. It's great to have boots on the ground and be able to know the customers in the area at a deeper level level than a corporate brand can. But it's also important that your franchisees have experience running businesses in these areas because again, they're experts in that territory and they can go beyond just having great relationships to, hey, we know how to successfully run a business here. I love what Michael said too, about this ad program and how it's going to help Doghouse really imbue every one of its locations with local character, including real estate decisions, even down to decisions like what beers are on tap. The ads, again, by being experts in the area and knowing how to localize a business, are going to be able to do that very, very well. He also said that, you know, this is a way that Doghouse can be scaled and democratized. So Doghouse is being very flexible in its format as it grows. And these area directors are going to have a more important say than typical franchisees in how this business will look in every individual location around the country. You can only do that if you're. If your franchisees, area, whatever you call them, whatever they are to your business, you can only do that and trust in that relationship. If they know the area very, very well, it wouldn't make sense for them to make unique localized real estate or design or beer decisions in a market they don't know anything about. My second takeaway is that you should trust your franchisees as the brand partners that they are. So again, whether you have an area director program or whether that you just have a traditional franchise program, like Michael said in this interview, there's no us versus them. You should never have a mentality of your franchisees being on one side and franchisor, you as the franchisor being on the other side. If you've gotten to that place, then that is a very Bad relationship and very bad for the business. A franchisee should be aligned with a franchisor, as Michael said, with their franchisees arm in arm. You should have alignment on what success looks like to the business, and you should have alignment on what should happen in the future for this brand. That's what Doghouse is building with this area director program. And again, whether it's an area director program, whether it's traditional franchise model for you, you need to invest in and nurture that relationship with your franchisees. They should feel like they're very much a part of the business. Even if they don't have equity like Doghouse is providing, even if they don't have a seat on the board, they should feel invested in the brand and its future. My third takeaway is that area directors are like player coaches who can level up the brand. So, again, you know, it's important to say here. This area director program is really nothing new, especially for larger franchise systems in the country. Area directors, this is something that's been around forever for how to have these kind of tiers of management and have folks like area directors being able to oversee and manage franchisees, localized franchisees around the country. Um, but what Doghouse is doing here is essentially, again, bringing in more advanced franchisees to be more invested in the business than your typical kind of onesie, twosie, mom and pop franchisee. And by doing that, not only are they able to tap into the expertise that those franchisees bring in from their other brands. That's a big part of this, as Michael said. But as he mentioned, you know, they're going to help to level up the franchisees within their territories. So as this ad program is going to work, you know, they are essentially going to have franchisees under them within their territory who that ad coming from a bigger system with more franchise expertise and experience is going to be able to lean in and provide the necessary support, resources, insights that they've brought with them from their careers. Again, they are the player, they are the franchisee, but they're also the coach. They're helping the franchisees beneath them in their territory really excel at the business. That player coach model, I think, is really fascinating. And again, this is a huge asset for a brand like Doghouse because it's going to help the operations, the operational excellence of the business really be solid. My fourth takeaway is that there is no deadline for ramping up growth. I talked to Michael about why, you know, it's been 16 years that doghouse has been in business. They've grown to 60 locations. Why now? Why is it the time? Why is the time right to be doing a model like this new ad program that they've rolled out? And, you know, Michael pointed to other businesses like a Jersey Mike's or like a Shake Shack. And you see some of these businesses that have been around really for a long, long time, and that their growth has been a little bit more recent. And there's a reason for that, which is that smart businesses take their time to build out the right business model. They need a strong foundation. They need deep roots, which Michael kept coming back to in this conversation, around the deep roots of the founders of Doghouse and the team that they've built. It's a strong foundation from which they are building the Doghouse brand. And, you know, they really wanted to make sure that everything was in order before they accelerated growth. This ad program they really see as something that's going to accelerate quickly the growth pace. And the wheels would come off if they stepped on the accelerator and their systems weren't in place, their team wasn't in place. They wanted to make sure that foundation was strong. So when they stepped on the accelerator, this thing is humming along and that the brand is growing exactly as it should be growing. That is a lesson for any of you out there who are franchising and franchising quickly. If you're looking for fast growth through franchising and fast growth only, you're in trouble. Because if your foundation is not strong, it's all going to come crumbling down. And believe me, history is littered with examples of restaurants that have come crumbling down because of that notion to grow fast without the strong foundation. My fifth and final takeaway is that an experiential concept in a streamlined footprint equals future restaurant success. What I mean by that is, you know, Michael and I are talking about the state of fast casual. What does this category especially look like in the future? What does future restaurant success look like in general? And Michael was talking about how he really feels like that transactional relationship that customers have with restaurants, that that's going to go away. You're not going to have that kind of impulse buy, you know, not really caring about what you get, maybe just driving by a place and saying, I'll just get some food there, that's going to maybe go away. As more people, more consumers are concerned about the relationship they have with restaurants and the experience they get from that relationship that they're going to commit their dollars to restaurants where they get human interaction, where they have a good time, whether that's qsr fast, casual or full service, that the experience, the overall experience around that transaction is more important than just the transaction itself. And Doghouse has positioned itself to where it's going to capitalize by not only investing in that experience. And you can kind of do it yourself. You can take out, pick up at Doghouse, have it delivered, or you can come sit at a bar and watch a game, have a beer. You can have that great experience. But then also, they've really set this business up so you have a flexible format so that the restaurants can be around 2,000 square feet. They have some smaller locations and some bigger locations. And that's what I mean by a streamlined footprint that Michael's talking about here. Basically, if you can have a footprint where you have less labor costs, you have a smaller footprint to manage, therefore having, you know, smaller team, less of an operational burden. And on top of that, you layer the experience. You know, that's going to be what future restaurants, successful future restaurants look like if they can achieve that sort of streamlined footprint and that relationship with guests that's going to equal future success. Those are all my takeaways for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please remember to subscribe to Takeaway. Wherever you listen to podcasts, leave your feedback. You can also email me@sam okasnforma.com thanks again and talk to you next week.