← Take-Away with Sam Oches
Take-Away with Sam Oches
FUSIAN’s cofounder on why, 16 years in, it’s time for a brand refresh
00:53:23
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- [00:01]
Sam Okas
Welcome to Takeaway with Samokus, a podcast for leaders of growing restaurant companies looking to take their businesses to the next level. In nearly two decades covering restaurants, I've gained access to some of this industry's most influential decision makers and I'm letting you in on the conversations. In today's episode, you'll hear from the co founder of a sushi chain about why the time was right for a brand refresh and about why customization is still king for so many fast casuals. Steven Harmon is the co founder and CEO of Fusion, a sushi concept based right here by me in Columbus, Ohio that has grown to seven locations across Ohio over 16 years. I've known Steven now for more than a decade and I've had a front row seat to Fusion's a winding growth journey. A journey that I'm sure is familiar to so many of you listening now, the brand is on the cusp of its biggest change yet a a brand refresh in which Fusion is evolving its entire look and feel as it plans for its next phase of growth. Steven and I sat down in person here in Columbus to talk about that brand evolution and about how the business has evolved over a decade and a half to better serve its guests. In this conversation you'll learn more about why there's always room for improvement even with your core product, how customers should make their own decisions around health and wellness and and why branding guidelines help you tell your story and grow into new markets. If you learned something from this episode, go follow Takeaway wherever you listen to podcasts and leave some feedback. It is the best way to get these lessons into the hands of fellow restaurant leaders. Jumping now into my interview with Fusion's Stephen Harmon. Also, don't forget to stick around after the interview as I will share my six takeaways from this discussion. Actionable insights that you can take with you on the go.
- [01:48]
Interviewer
Harmon, Co Founder and CEO CEO of Fusion thanks for joining me for the podcast.
- [01:52]
Stephen Harmon
Thanks for having me Sam. I'm excited to be here Steve.
- [01:55]
Interviewer
This is a unique opportunity that we have that we are sitting down in person. Thanks to our friends from Zinc Food Service. Shout out to them here in Colonos, Ohio. You don't live in Columbus anymore, unfortunately, but you are a Columbus based business. I am a Columbus based person, sure. And so it worked out great that we could get together in person. We've known each other many, many years though. I've had the pleasure of following Fusion's growth over. Gosh, it was probably at least 10 years ago now that met but for those not familiar with this concept, if they've not been to Ohio to get a sense of what you guys are about, what is the Fusion business?
- [02:31]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, so Fusion is a, is a fast casual sushi restaurant. We've been at it for 16 years. We started May 25, 2010 in Cincinnati. So, you know, while, while you mentioned we're a Columbus based business, I, I, I firmly believe we're an Ohio based business. We're in most of the major markets in Ohio, but we, we do customized and build your own sushi rolls. We have, we have what we call go to rolls as well, which are signature rolls. And we have, we have bowls and salads as well, but really kind of made a name for ourselves as a, as a fast casual sushi roll business. And I think what we do is pretty unique in, in the world of
- [03:10]
Interviewer
fast casual, you guys came out so 2010. I mean, if you set the stage of like, what's going on then in fast casual, you know, your sweet greens of the worlds are in the early stages. It's about the time Cava came up. I mean, there was a lot of energy in fast casual. In particular, you and your business partners. When you guys launched this, what were you looking at for inspiration?
- [03:27]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I think we were really looking internally, to be honest. You know, we, we were a product of the fast casual generation, if that's what you want to call it. You know, grew up eating the Chipotle's of the world. It was a pretty familiar dining style for us, but frankly, you know, I think it was one part being in Ohio. You know, sushi probably wasn't as proliferated as it is across the rest of the country. And two, just kind of trying to create a place where we'd want to eat. You know, in, in, in the world of decisions, one decision didn't, didn't, you know, we couldn't make, which was where do we go get sushi in a, in a, in a fast casual environment, you could either go to a grocery store and sacrifice potentially quality or, or selection or, or you go to a, you know, mom and pop traditional sushi restaurant, which seems to be more of like a dinner, a dinner option or, or maybe a fine dining occasion. And so, you know, we, we kind of saw this gap in the market and said, you know, if you can buy a burrito, if you can buy, you know, sandwiches, what if, what if we did sushi rolls? And I think that was kind of the genesis to, you know, what, what inevitably became fusion, but, you know, kind Of a kind of a good idea gone. Maybe it was a bad idea gone well or a good idea gone well. But, you know, 16 years later, we're, we're, you know, we're serving some of the same guests that we did 16 years ago, which is a testament to, I think, the product.
- [04:48]
Interviewer
16 years. I think that, I think you can check. Good idea on that one. It worked. You have. This is actually therapy that we're doing.
- [04:57]
Stephen Harmon
Exactly, exactly.
- [04:58]
Sam Okas
I can see your attention to the
- [04:59]
Interviewer
lift of just, just now that I validated that for you, it feels like fast casual. You know, you say like Ohio sushi. I mean, I grew up in Ohio Su. You know, I know what you're talking about, because we don't. This is not a sushi culture. To your point, we don't grow up with the quote, unquote, authentic sushi experience. I think what's so interesting about the fast casual business is that if you look at what Chipotle accomplished using one of your inspirations as an example, you know, here's a business that took authentic Mexican food, packaged it in a way that you could take it to the suburbs, and it's still better than the fast or fast food competition. Right. And so it's better than fast food. Not quite necessarily pure mom and pop authenticity, but something in the middle, kind of best of both worlds. And it's like, that's, like, that's sort of tailor made for the suburbs. And Ohio, if nothing else, is like one giant suburb. So, I mean, tell me what the response was then from Ohio residents when you launched this thing, because obviously it did succeed. You guys grew up.
- [05:54]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah. You know, so our first restaurant was in Downtown Cincinnati in 2010. I think you could probably look back and say that maybe that's the densest place in Ohio. From the hours of 10am to 3pm every day. You know, you have, you have people coming from the suburbs to go work at Procter and Gamble and Kroger and some of these large Fortune 500 businesses that are, that are downtown and the secondary businesses that support those large businesses. And so, you know, I think actually being downtown Cincinnati gave us really good exposure to the suburbs. You know, it was, it was, it was, you know, people coming from, like I said, the east side and saying, like, oh man, you should have one out by Kenwood Mall or, you know, the west side saying, you know, you should, you should be up on Coleraine Avenue and, and I think that, you know, we kind of got a good, a good flavor of, I guess, southwestern Ohio market just Kind of putting a pin in downtown Cincinnati at the time, which gave us the confidence to, to frankly scale across Ohio because, you know, we turned that basically lunch business Monday through Friday into a seven day a week business as we scaled. And so I always said our first location was a profitable test kitchen. It's like, can we just figure out how to make the model work and then we can take it to maybe a mix of markets across Ohio.
- [07:11]
Interviewer
So 16 years in, then obviously you grew to Columbus, where we are. Cincinnati, what other. Toledo.
- [07:19]
Stephen Harmon
Toledo and Dayton.
- [07:19]
Interviewer
And Dayton, that's right. So, so you're in multiple cities, you 16 years, you're building this loyal fan base. How has the business evolved over those 16 years? And obviously we'll get to the big news that you're announcing this year, but like, to this point, what has that evolution looked like?
- [07:36]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean, I think the truth is that when we started the business, we had, we had zero restaurant experience. And so we kind of came into this eyes wide open, mind wide open of like, we just want to serve what people want and we want to serve something that we think people will love. And so, you know, we've really worked and I think it's a very Japanese mindset of just doing what we do a little bit better every day. You know, we're not, we're not trying to bring in, you know, crazy new product launches that are kind of divergent from our core operations. But really, you know, this past year we, we, we we spent probably about six, six to eight months just perfecting our rice again, you know, making sure that like our rice was good, but how do we make it better? And so we, we sourced a new rice product. We, we worked on, you know, several different recipes. We worked with the Japanese sushi chef to help us make sure that, you know, whether you're in Toledo or Dayton or Cincinnati, you can expect, you can expect, you know, the same quality of rice every time. So I think over the 16 years, what's evolved is, is we've just gotten better at what we do. You know, in today's world, everybody's, you know, you're hearing a lot about innovation, automation, you know, AI, you know, automation has been, has basically been baked in our business since, I'll say day two. Day one, we didn't know what we're doing. Day two, we caught up our friend Taka from Japan and we said, hey, how do we make sushi faster and more and more, you know, in a more repeatable fashion? And so, you know, we've had sushi Robots in the restaurant for 16 years. Yeah, you know, if we started on, on May 25th, we, we had them in, in the restaurant by May 27th. And so, you know, that, that's been, that's been kind of our, our public secret since day one is like taking a lot of maybe the traditional skill sets or skill positions out of sushi making and finding repeatable ways to make them at scale. And so I think that's, you know, that that's been a consistent since day one. And frankly it's probably making our DNA at this point.
- [09:34]
Interviewer
Right. You've closed a couple locations in the last couple years and I mean, you're pretty open about that. This was a good thing for the business. Tell me about the lessons in scaling back a little bit, the Fusion business.
- [09:46]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, I think that as any, as any person in the retail business will tell you is is location, location, location. We we were able to convert a
- [09:58]
Interviewer
couple
- [10:01]
Stephen Harmon
second generation spaces kind of as Covid was kind of coming, coming, you know, maybe to a, to a landing path, if you will. And we signed a couple short term leases to see if those markets could support another fusion. We learned pretty quickly that like, you know, at least in our current markets we're able to really capture a lot of, of these MSAs with our current footprint. And so, you know, it kind of gave us an opportunity to kind of maybe test a little bit, see if these markets, you know, could, could really lift all boats in the market for us. But you know, sushi, if one thing, you know, especially in today's age, it just travels so well.
- [10:39]
Interviewer
Right.
- [10:39]
Stephen Harmon
And so, you know, with delivery, third party delivery, you know, first party delivery, we're able to capture a lot more real estate footprint, if you will, through our existing units rather than maybe, rather than maybe, you know, adding another unit, maybe we can have fewer units that are, that are higher volume in a market. And I think that, you know, we're not serving burgers, we're not serving fries, we're not serving steaks. And so like a lot of the things that, you know, don't travel nearly as well is the sushi that we make and the bowls that we make really show up at your door about, about the same, you know, exactly the same as when they left the restaurant. So we don't really sacrifice quality for the, for the delivery model. And I think that's something that we've learned, you know, post Covid as well.
- [11:23]
Interviewer
Did that become an advantage, especially in the third party era? I mean, to your point, not that long ago, my wife and I got Fusion Doordash to us and she got a bowl, I got rolls, you know, perfectly. The quality was great. Right. To, to your point, travel's great because our closest Fusion is at least a 15, 20 minute drive because you're not on the north side. And I imagine when you think about the third party revolution, especially through Covid, I mean, that becomes an advantage to this business. Right. So how did you lean into that?
- [11:53]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean, I think it was one part luck, you know, of just sushi is, is, is, is a. Travels very well. The other part of it was, was, you know, before COVID was, you know, we had redesigned all of our packaging to be a little bit more versatile and, and frankly, branded. So no matter if you got it from DoorDash or you came into our restaurant or you ordered from our app or you got it catered, you know, you were left with a, with an impression that is Fusion. And I think that, you know, you know, Hindsight's, you know, 2020, but, you know, I think we really prepared ourselves, well, inadvertently for Covid and really was able to really pivot during what seems like sometimes it seems like yesterday and sometimes it seems like, you know, a decade ago. Really pivot into, you know, something that can be enjoyed no matter how, how you find us.
- [12:44]
Interviewer
Yeah, it's interesting because, like, obviously the industry has its quibbles with the third party app, which we don't need to get in too much, although I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on that. But, you know, if nothing else, that, that idea that if I'm thinking about going to pick up a food versus having it delivered, you know, going to pick up food, I'm probably not going to drive more than 15 minutes to go pick up food. That might even be stretching it a little bit. In a city like Columbus, I have access to a lot of things within five minutes, but delivery stretches that, that zone from which I would consider. So it seems like that becomes for any business, but especially a business like Fusion, because that's. Because the quality holds up. Seems like that kind of stretches the opportunity for customers in any market you're in to who you can get Fusion to.
- [13:29]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, when we opened our first three restaurants in Cincinnati, they were all within two miles of each other, you know, and you're like, okay, I need to be in this town square. I need to be this in town square. I need to do this shopping, regional shopping mall. And you know, frankly, I think that, you know, Delivery is an option for, for all sorts of people, but I think it allows us to get under more households, in more office buildings in productive ways. And I think that's unique to our product. You know, you know, you're seeing other restaurants like, you know, maybe Wingstop comes to mind where, you know, very limited footprint, but a lot of their, a lot of their products going out the door in delivery, in delivery vehicles. And I think that combined with maybe our demographic of our customer, where we're located, the fact that sushi travels well, that we can make customized sushi rolls that are 10 pieces and meal sized, I think that, you know, we're just a great option. If you're going to get delivery, you want it to show up, you know, as good as, as close to, as good as it came out of the kitchen as possible.
- [14:27]
Interviewer
Right.
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Stephen Harmon
And, you know, I think just, you know, given the nature of our product, it just, you know, it shows up just, just as good as it left the kitchen. No matter if you're five minutes away or 15 minutes.
- [14:37]
Interviewer
Yeah, well, it's interesting, I mean, especially for the fast casual side of things. Like, as we speak, I'm sure you're watching Cava and what they're doing to the city because Cava had no restaurants in Columbus two months ago. They've got two open now. They'll have five by the end of the year. And, you know, you can see where they're putting them. Polaris Hilliard Gahanna, Dublin. Very strategic.
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Stephen Harmon
Right.
- [14:57]
Interviewer
And it is, it is coming in very strategically with that sort of fortressing strategy, if you want to call it. But I think fast casual, the point I'm making is that the fast casual, the combination of the off premises service and that quality product and the ability to kind of spread out and tackle in a city the size of Columbus, as fast as a brand like Hava is doing, I guess. Do you look at that as you think about growth for Fusion and how you might fit into sort of the marketplace for new consumers?
- [15:26]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, frankly, it's been very impressive to watch, to watch. Kava Kava's growth is, you know, basically here, where we know the market so intimately. You know, it's not just opening one store. You can tell that there's a lot of strategy behind, behind where they are when they're going to open in kind of the, the sequencing of their opening is super impressive. And, you know, hats off to Brett if he's listening. Great job with you and your team because it's fun to watch And I'd say another thing I've learned from them too, is, is, is being very disciplined on location selection. You know, it's really easy to open a restaurant, it's really hard to run a restaurant for, for decades. And so, you know, you know, what, what's, what's, what's the market doing? Where are the trade areas? You know, migrating, you know, where, where are the population corridors from, know, drive home side of the road, or drive, drive to work side of the road? You know, there's just so many considerations and they've been so disciplined in where they're selecting their locations, and I think it's paying off. And you're seeing that. Right?
- [16:26]
Interviewer
Yeah. Good job. Right. Okay, so like, today, where we're at as a business for Fusion and I think just also broadly for the state of fast casual, because you, you follow the headlines. I mean, last year, I think fast casual as a category was taking a lot of not taking flack, but I think everybody was wondering, hey, has this category kind of played itself out? We were looking at Chipotle and sweet green is the two sort of standard bearers for, for fast casual. Both of them, Chipotle barely eked out. Well, they were negative for the year. Then they kind of started to turn around early this year. Sweet Green, we know what happened there. I mean, that it's, it's very negative over there. And so everybody wonders, well, is fast casual? Is this indicative of what's going on in fast casual? As you look at the category where it is today, how would you, how would you describe fast casual to the American consumer in 2026?
- [17:13]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, you know, I, I, I am not a leading expert in fast casual restaurants. I wouldn't claim to be. I, I really know my business and, and, and, and try to stay focused on it. And, and I know that's like, not some, I, that's not my PR spin. It's like, you know, 16 years in, I still think we're a one of one concept. You know, I look across, I look across the country, I go to, you know, your events, which, great job at your events. They're fun. Thank you. You know, and, and frankly, I kind of sit there and saying, I'm the, you know, I'm the only one there doing sushi, you know, in a, in quote unquote, a fast casual environment. You know, I think that for those of, you know, for those of, for those listeners and for those people who've had Fusion, you can't go get Fusion anywhere else. It, it, it kind of is what it is. It's like you can almost use fusion as a verb now. You know, I'm, I'm going to go, you know, fusion. And so like, I, I think that what, where, where we see ourselves going is, you know, continuing to stay very disciplined on our, on our, on our real estate strategy, stay very disciplined on our food strategy, making sure that we're improving any, around every corner. You know, again, maybe this is luck, maybe it's destiny, I don't know. But, you know, fusion also, and sushi generally is a very clean product, you know, gluten free. We got you vegan, we got you high protein. We got you. You know, many of the dietary, modern dietary considerations people are, are using as part of their decision set, you know, it really works well for us because at the end of the day, we're a pretty pure product if you think about it. And so, and so, like, I think we can still capitalize on kind of a diverse, a diverse palette. But yeah, I think, you know, trends in the industry ebb and flow, you know, and I think that we're going to keep doing what we're doing. And I think that, you know, you taught me about, maybe this, maybe this word is like offensive now, but you told me you taught me about slop bowls like a year ago. I've never heard that word before. And you know, I think that when people are kind of scrolling on their phone or they're listening to their podcasts and they're thinking about, you know, you can basically travel anywhere in the world right now from your phone. And so it's like, as we kind of look to the future, I think that we're just really well positioned to be a, another option. Right? So you can do Mexican, you can do sandwiches, you can do salads. You know, we're going to, we're going to fit into that decision set. And our goal is to make sushi, you know, not a once a month meal, but a once a week meal.
- [19:44]
Interviewer
Sure. I also feel like if you look at the fast casual category and the generation of fast casuals that you came up in, that was so driven by our generation, right. As millennials that were like foodies and suddenly had disposable income, they wanted good, adventurous food, but still at a cheaper price point, you know, and now you and I are both dads now and like, you know, we're getting older and yeah, we still eat it fast casual, but Gen Z becomes that generation that so much of the trends that you say come and go, like everybody's Trying to figure out, you know, what is Gen Z, what is their taste, their have got disposable income and it's pretty soon it's going to be our kids generation. But you know, as you say, that sort of trends come and go and riding that wave, like, how do you, how do you take into account something like Gen Z, which has grown up on their phone, on a screen? So I imagine the importance of social media is, is there. Right? Fusion's got to show up for Gen Z and not just ride the millennial wave until we all die off. Right. So how do you do that?
- [20:38]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, no, I, I, it's interesting. My, my kids are 6 and 3, so I don't even know what generation that is. But, but, you know, as I've become, you know, a parent and kind of going through that, that journey, you know, I'm, I'm kind of looking at Gen, you know, the Gen Z environment. And you know, I think, I think we're, and this is my own experience again, not a, not claiming to be an expert on generational trends. But, you know, I think the personalization is just, is just really, you know, something that a lot of people are looking for. And, you know, it's not saying that you can build a sushi roll however you want, but it's, it's that this is gonna, this meal is gonna be unique to you. And so I don't think it's about a ton of options. I think it's, I think it's about making something that's very personalized. So when you see, like, like I was talking to a friend the other day. I thought this was a great anecdote. You know, he's got kids. Friday night, they go, they go over to a house, they're watching a movie, just like we did when we were kids. And they say, what do we want for dinner? And, and there's 14 girls at this house, and they all pull out their phone and they all doordash their own meal. So it's not about like, let's go get pizza, or let's all get chick fil A or, or any of the other options. They're, they're saying, sam, you know, I'm going to get chick fil a. You know, Stephen, you're going to get Fusion. We'll share a little bit. But like, frankly, we can get whatever we want. And so I think there's this, like, have your cake and eat it too that I think you're seeing, especially with some of these drink concepts too, is like this personalization on a drink, whether it's Dutch Bros or Starbucks or you know, the swigs of the world, like, I think people kind of want, you know, to put their own unique stamp on what it is they're about to eat. So, you know, maybe where our generation was like, you know, super health conscious, you know, tell me what the name of the rice farm was.
- [22:28]
Interviewer
Right.
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Stephen Harmon
And, and you know, where you get your, your chicken from. I think that's all important still. But now I think it's even just going to like give me something that tastes good that, you know, that might have my name on it.
- [22:41]
Interviewer
Right.
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Stephen Harmon
And so yeah, I think again, you know, 10 piece sushi roll is a, is a very meal sized item for an individual. And so, you know, we're not, we're not selling pizza, you know, where we're trying to feed, you know, a group of 20 kids or people. We're selling individual, individual items to individual people. And I think that that's something that I think we're well positioned for, for the next generation too.
- [23:05]
Interviewer
Also cringe at that anecdote for how inefficient that is.
- [23:07]
Stephen Harmon
Oh, I know. And then, and then they add like, you know, they add like a greater stop on the way home so they get their dessert to shadow graders. Love graders. So, so, so yeah, you know, it's, they all get what they want.
- [23:20]
Interviewer
Well, it also reminds me of, you know, if you look at credit card data, it's hard to read into generational things because of how many young people are using their parents credit cards for purchases.
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Stephen Harmon
Totally, totally. It's, you know, it's, it's the wild west out there. And I'm not sure that there's a whole lot of discernment on, on what things cost, especially on third party markets.
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Interviewer
Yeah. So to that point though, you know, that idea of sort of a fresh, healthier food, I mean it does seem like that's coming back around.
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Stephen Harmon
Sure.
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Interviewer
I mean you think about like the Maha movement, you think about the protein craze from last year, now it's fiber. So kind of pairing those two things because I don't think customization, I think that's been a thing that young people have craved since we were young, maybe even before that. So you pair that with that sort of healthier halo. Seems like that's sort of best of both worlds in terms of what the younger people wanted in.
- [24:09]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I think again, it's like, you know, we were putting out documentaries 10 years ago about, you know, the farm that we got our Food from. And I think now it's, you know, that that's just table stakes, right? And maybe it's not a documentary. Maybe it's just this is, you know, this is table stakes for, for, you know, for, for, you know, getting consumer confidence in your product. But yeah, I think that the, I think that the, you know, customization piece, the personalization piece, but also you use the word health halo. Like, you know, in the first time in, in 16 years, we put, we put soda fountains in our, in our restaurants.
- [24:42]
Interviewer
Oh, yeah.
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Stephen Harmon
You know, and, and the reason why was because I was in one of our restaurants one day and I saw these two young ladies who looked like our core demographic, you know, everyday customer, and they had two large McDonald's Diet Cokes. And I, and I sat down and I said, did you guys go to McDonald's, get a diet Coke and then come to Fusion for your food? They're like, absolutely. Like, you've got what? They said you have to have a FDC fountain Diet Coke. And you know, did a little bit of research and, you know, did some polling, you know, across the restaurants, and it was quite obvious that, that people want their Diet Coke. So you talk about a health halo. You know, that, that's it in a nutshell. It's like you can get a great, you know, well balanced sushi roll, but the found Diet Coke still, you know, still seems to be a real winner amongst, you know, multiple generations. So, you know, that, that was, that was a breakthrough in the past 12, 12 months for sure.
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Interviewer
So that was lost business for you for all these years that people were getting their own beverage and bringing it to Fusion?
- [25:38]
Stephen Harmon
Absolutely. I mean, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think that, I think that maybe I got in my own way on that one saying, you know, you know, we're going to be, we're going to be, you know, strict on this, you know, quote, unquote, health, but at the end of the day, like, people make their own decisions, right? And, and we, and we want to be able to offer something that people want. And, and, and you know, it's, it's, it's proven to be, you know, a great asset for us.
- [26:02]
Interviewer
Sure. Okay, so 2026 fusion. How many locations open today? Have seven locations open today. You guys are undertaking a, a big change. So you're doing a brand refresh. First off, tell me why now?
- [26:15]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting. S. You know, I think first of all, a brand has to evolve, right? You know, it it's gotta, it's gotta tell a story and it's gotta, it's gotta continue to, you know, to evolve over time. You know, this past year we hired a new marketing director, Tyson. He's been, he's been incredible for us and you know, it was, it's frankly his idea. He was like, you know what, like let's, let's, let's come out strong. Let's, let's, let's, let's put some change into the brand. Like, I think that, you know, after 16 years it's probably time for us to you know, kind of refresh and we went through a, it probably took us six months of strategy of, you know, working with a, working with a brand agency that we love. They're out of Cincinnati, that, you know, basically they, they probably peeled back every layer plus extra layers of the onion of like what's the genesis story, you know, what makes fusion fusion? What do people think about when they think of fusion? You know, where do you feel like you're going to be in five, 10 years? And I think that, you know, we were saying let's, let's just be bold. You know, I'll be like. We were using the same logo, the same typeface, the same color schemes since day one. And frankly we didn't really have like a, like a full on brand guideline. We were kind of working with something that was legacy and I think that, you know, that this really gave us all the tools in our arsenal to grow off of. And so when we look to the future, I think we can, we have something to show people to say this is exactly who we are.
- [27:50]
Sam Okas
Sure, yeah. So you're wearing some of it now
- [27:53]
Interviewer
and I see that you've got a logo there, a little bit of a different logo than what you have or have had. What are you trying to communicate through the new branding?
- [28:03]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, so I mean again, in a former life I worked for Apple and I think, you know, that minimalism really kind of stuck with me. And, and, and so, you know, less is more. Most sophisticated design is always the one, you know, where you can communicate, you know, your intent with the fewest amount of objects. So you know, this was basically, you know, it's a smiling tiger, it's got chopsticks in his mouth, which is an homage to our previous logo. It is a kind of a mythical creature, if you will. He's got wings, he can fly. So the idea was that basically these are eagles wings. So you have a true fusion of character. So you know, the tiger kind of an ode back to Cincinnati, where we started, the Bengals, the Tiger stripes. We have the eagle's wings, so it's American in nature. The tail is, has a, has a spiral on it, which is to reference a sushi roll. And you know, we think that we put a lot of joy into the world. So, so, you know, the tiger's smiling. You know, it's, it's not taking ourselves too seriously, but ultimately, you know, Fusion as a word is a combination of Fusion and Asian. And so how do we, how do we make a character to represent that fusion of value?
- [29:11]
Interviewer
Sure. Yeah. All right, well, so you, if Joe Burrow is listening, this is a perfect opportunity for him to get on Team Fusion.
- [29:18]
Stephen Harmon
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [29:19]
Sam Okas
Just send him a shirt.
- [29:20]
Stephen Harmon
Well, we are, we are the, we are the official sushi sponsor of the Cincinnati Bengals cheerleader. That's a great way to start. So, you know, we, we, we're big bagels fans.
- [29:30]
Interviewer
Yeah. I, I, I, you know, I'm a convert now. I, I, I took your side too many years during.
- [29:35]
Stephen Harmon
You're probably closer to Joe than I am. He probably grew up next to him,
- [29:38]
Interviewer
at least geographically speaking. I am super close to Joe. Never spoken a word to him. But other than, I don't know if that's important or not.
- [29:47]
Sam Okas
Okay, so what do you, what do
- [29:49]
Interviewer
you want this to accomplish? I mean, how does this brand speak to the future of Fusion?
- [29:54]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, so I think we've spent 16 years learning, you know, we've learned easy lessons and we certainly learned hard lessons. I think that the, that the, the refresh is really a jump off for the next 16 years. You know, I, I, I'm always, I'm always shocked by how many inbound messages we get on. You know, come to Charleston, South Carolina, come to Louisville, Kentucky, Lexington, Nashville, Tennessee, la. You know, it's like pe People who have eaten our food want us to find them where they are now. And so, you know, I think that as we kind of look to the, to the future of how do we get into these new markets and how do we do it responsibly and how do we do it, you know, with the right, with the right image where people say, that's unique, that's different. Who's Fusion? What is Fusion? We felt that now would be a good time to kind of start laying those, that groundwork for storytelling into the future.
- [30:49]
Sam Okas
Sure.
- [30:50]
Interviewer
I know you've kicked tires of franchising in the past. You've never fully gotten gone that direction. You think about it, I bet, a lot. I mean, what's the right growth mode for the growth model for Fusion?
- [31:02]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean, I think at 16 years, I think we have a far more predictable model than we ever have. You know, so it's. When you, when you look at, you know, kind of the fleet of restaurants that we have now, we're. We're pretty predictable and predictable in our results. You know, I think that, you know, franchising is certainly, you know, one way to grow. I think that, you know, we, we want to continue to build systems that will allow us to manage the business, whether we're franchise, whether, you know, have franchisees or we have, you know, call it a institutional investor helping us, you know, get. Get to more units. I think right now, call it for the next, you know, 6, 12, 18 months. It's really about continuing to build our process, continue to build our systems control, continuing to build the model that, you know, we can, we can, we can scale with. And I think there's just like, you know, Ohio has been so good to us. Right? It's been, it's been such a, such a great place to learn, grow, test. I mean, you hear all the time, Columbus is such a great test market, and it really is. I think that we've had loyal fans, critical fans that have allowed us to improve in a very Midwest way. So. So we're very prepared when we, when we leave the market.
- [32:12]
Interviewer
Sure. I mean, 2026, I'd say the whole industry is, you know, could take or leave the economic conditions or. I mean, nobody's. Unless you're a beverage concept, you're not growing leaps and bounds right now. Everybody's facing the same headwinds. I imagine the same is true for Fusion.
- [32:28]
Stephen Harmon
We, we're actually, I mean, we have been so happy with our results this year. You know, I think we're coming off of some turbulent times for sure. But I think that, again, credit to our team. You know, our managers do a great job of, of living our mission every day. You know, our marketing is really starting to take shape. We're doing some new stuff on that end. You know, we have, we have, you know, we just, we just won an award for, you know, outstanding operator in the industry. So I think that right now we're really seeing some of the, some of the quick wins. And maybe they're not quick, maybe they're 16 years in the making, but some really good wins. Our sales are up, profits are up, and, you know, we're excited to kind of continue on that track.
- [33:10]
Interviewer
So what needs to happen to accomplish store growth, to accomplish Moving into new markets. Are there any sort of tangible goals you've set for yourself that this is the point at which we will do that?
- [33:23]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, you know, I think that right now it's about, right now it's about continuing to build our teams, you know, so, so we can grow with our own people. Right. You know, so we have people who know the brand, live the brand, understand our process, continue to, you know, create process in the organization. So we're validating that. You know, what we set out to do every day is working. And then really I think the next, the next step would be to find another great location in a new market, prove it in a new market somewhere around, call it this region. Whether it's Nashville, Louisville, Indianapolis, Lexington, Cleveland for those who are listening, you know, and really find that next best location to really, to really, you know, pressure test what we've been building for 16 years. And then from there I think we can, we can, you know, go, go, go into some, some, some larger markets and, and do some of the, do some of the kava stuff where it's sync, sync sequencing. You know, I, I, I would say that, you know, the best brands, they, they don't just go into a market and look at a location and say that's our next location. They say we can, this market can support five to 10 restaurants, five to eight restaurants. We want them to all open up within a eight month window of each other. You know, from an operational standpoint, from a consumer standpoint, that's, that's the right way to do it. And I think, you know, our number one core values do the right thing. And so, you know, that we want to do it the right way. We want to, we want to make sure that we're not stumble into some of the, maybe some of the missteps that we've made in the past of maybe not choosing the perfect restaurant or sorry, the perfect location and really finding, you know, the one that's going to, it's going to, you know, prove the model outside of our current markets.
- [35:05]
Interviewer
The rollout for the new branding. What is that going to look like?
- [35:09]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, so you're already starting to see it. We have, we have new uniforms where you're about to be able to buy merch on our website, which will be kind of cool. We used to sell merch and then we stopped selling merch and now we're going to have some cool merch again. You'll see new signage in our restaurants, you'll see new menu boards, digital menu boards. So we're really putting a lot of investment back into our restaurants right now to kind of perfect the model, but of what it call it. I guess Fusion 2.0 is going to look like in the future. So some of these things that are little touch points that I think people are going to see when they come into a restaurant. I mean our app has already been rebranded so if you download the app from the app Store, you'll see entirely new app with new imagery, new food, photography. It's all coming together kind of as we speak.
- [35:59]
Interviewer
It's great. I mean the merch thing, you see what like Dutch Bros. Is doing with merch, it's insane that, I mean I think people line up for this stuff.
- [36:06]
Stephen Harmon
I know. I, I, I, I happened to be at my, my neighbor cooked me breakfast yesterday for Father's Day and, and he came, he came back with a sticker that said it's a Dutch Dads or something like that. I'm like, that's amazing. You know, and, and, and those little touch points are what gets people talking. They may or may not put it on their water bottle or their, or their computer but like, you know, it's a, it was a trinket for them to bring home and talk about. And I think that you know, at, at a RLC this year, you know, Dutch Bros. Is relatively new to me and it was, it was really incredible to hear their story about how they opened two restaurants in 10 years and now they have 1200. It's, it's, you know, I like that path, right. Start slow, build it right and know, take it from there. And so that was a, that was a good inspiration as well.
- [36:54]
Interviewer
Well that, all the branding around the merch, you know, the, the lifestyle of it all, to use a over word, the, I mean all of it speaks to something bigger than a latte, you know, and, and it's, I certainly like Dutch Bros beverages but you know, I'm not going to go there every day for one probably. But that lifestyle, it feels like it's, it resonates beyond just I want to go get a beverage. So there's something to be, to be learned about that from a branding perspective.
- [37:26]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean I think you know, ultimately people with, you know, they, they align with brands they love and you know, for some people that might be Dutch pros and for some people that might be Starbucks and for some people it might be, you know, Seven Bird, you know, but I think that people align with like minded brands and you know, you know, this, this rebrand that we did or this brand refresh that we did. You know, it wasn't about just creating a new logo. It was really telling a better story, to be honest. And how do we tell a story that's not about an individual, but rather about the cost, the consumer as the individual. And I think that, you know, if you put a Dutch Bro sticker on your laptop, it probably says more than just, I drink Dutch Bros Coffee. I align with what it is that they're trying to do. And, you know, yeah, I think it's far too easy to slap a logo on something. It's that the real. The real work is creating a brand that means something.
- [38:16]
Interviewer
Right. I mean, simultaneously, that logo, I mean, as an icon, you think about the Starbucks siren, you know, something that's immediately recognizable. It seems like there's a lot of a big advantage in having something like that.
- [38:28]
Stephen Harmon
Totally. You know, part of the work that we did in the rebrand was we were looking at the evolution of brands. Right? And so you think of the Starbucks siren, and you're like, okay, how many times have they rebranded? And you're like, oh, never. But actually, if you look at it, I mean, from the day they started to what they have today, it's still a siren, but it's not the same looking siren. And, you know, they've gone from Starbucks Coffee Co to Starbucks to back to Starbucks Coffee company And, you know, same with Chipotle. You remember the pepper. And so I think subtle. You'll see subtle changes in mature brands, for sure. We thought that this was our moment in time to really kind of take a bold leap so we can evolve from here, for sure.
- [39:04]
Interviewer
Okay, so you guys are doing well even in hard times. Something must be keeping you up at night. What are those challenges that are kind of on your mind all the time these days?
- [39:12]
Stephen Harmon
Well, the. Sometimes it's three year old.
- [39:17]
Interviewer
Yeah, I get that.
- [39:18]
Stephen Harmon
I get that. But what's keeping me up at night is, frankly, you know, growth is such. A. Growth is such a endless pursuit. Right. You know, it's. In some ways, it's a drug. You know, we got to grow. We got to grow. But for me, it's. What keeps me up at night is really how do we grow for our team's sake? You know, it's like I want to be able to. I want to be able to retain talent, you know, create a culture Allah, which we were just talking about with. With our own people and, And. And know, it's a. It. It's really about growth for the. For. For the team, making sure that we have career opportunities that go well into the future, but also, like, I know that people love Fusion, you know, and I want to be able to serve that to them as well. And so, you know, that's what keeps me up at night is really, is how, how can we take this in a responsible direction, you know, into the future and creating something much bigger than we have, you know, 16 years in seven units. I think we're pretty good at what we do. I think getting to that next stage is kind of, is kind of breaking through the proverbial, proverbial glass ceiling that we just have. We just have to do. And, and, you know, figuring that part piece of the pie out is just one of the many decisions that it takes, you know, to, to run a business, this business, or any business. And so that's what keeps me up at night is maybe that gnawing, you know, kind of urgency to grow, but doing it responsibly, you know, we don't want to, we don't want to misstep into, into a pitfall that we didn't see or we didn't expect or we didn't, you know, discuss. And so, yeah, I, I, I've never been more, more, you know, more excited about the, the potential for the brand than I am today. Just how we do it is, is, is. Is the part that we're still figuring out.
- [41:04]
Interviewer
Last question for you. What are you most excited about for the future of Fusion?
- [41:09]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we have the creativity about what, what does the next generation of Fusion look like? It can go in so many directions. You know, you, you're seeing, you're seeing kiosks, you're seeing smaller footprints, you're seeing shipping containers, you're seeing, you know, like the, like the Dutch bros of the world, you know, very small concepts. I don't know if that's the direction we want to go. But you also hear, you know, Brett Acava talk about how do we put more comfy seats in, how do we make a place that people come in? And I think that, like, I think that that's really what, what gets me really excited is how do we evolve this brand well into the future with customer first mentality. That's like, we want to be the sushi place for the everyday sushi eater, no matter where you find us. And we want to be undeniably that. And so, you know, I think that that's where my passion lies, is how do I, how do I use that kind of creative bug and that I wonder if you know, I wonder.
- [42:01]
Interviewer
You're watching too much Sesame Street.
- [42:03]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, probably. Exactly. I wonder what if? I wonder what if? Yeah, you know.
- [42:07]
Interviewer
Oh, man, how do we do?
- [42:09]
Stephen Harmon
Yeah, it probably was subconsciously.
- [42:12]
Interviewer
That's Elmo, man.
- [42:13]
Stephen Harmon
But it's Elmo.
- [42:16]
Interviewer
Oh, sign of two dads of young children.
- [42:18]
Stephen Harmon
Exactly, exactly. But no, I, I think just continuing to, to, to, to grow the brand is, is just something that really gets me excited and, and, and again, you know, doing it, doing it the right way and doing it, you know, disrespectful to the team, to, to like, to the brand, to the company and you know, I guess 16 years in, we're just getting started.
- [42:38]
Interviewer
Yeah. That's exciting to watch. Stephen Harmon, the co founder and CEO of Fusion.
- [42:41]
Stephen Harmon
You're the man.
- [42:42]
Interviewer
Appreciate it.
- [42:42]
Stephen Harmon
You're the man.
- [42:43]
Sam Okas
That was my interview with Fusion's Stephen Harmon. So what should you learn from this interview? Here are my six takeaways. My first takeaway is that your first location should be a profitable test kitchen. Now this of course is assuming that you want to grow, you want to scale your business. But Stephen was telling the story about how he and his co founders, they opened their first location in downtown Cincinnati really when they were kids and they didn't really know what they were doing, but what they did is they used that first restaurant to learn to collect data on their customers, on their price, product. They always wanted to grow into other markets, especially into the suburbs of Cincinnati and other cities. And so they, they tinkered with the brand, with the product in that first location. But of course, if you're going to be successful as a restaurant, you have to be profitable. That's why Steven said, you know, this was a profitable test kitchen. It was the location where they could really play around with this brand and figure out what it would be for the long term, but at the same time turning a profit, building that foundation for long term growth. If you are an independent restaurant operator or if you've just opened your first location and you're interested in growth, consider that this is your opportunity to get it right. Play around with things, tinker with stuff, collect data, learn everything. You can treat your restaurant like a test kitchen so that when you start opening more locations, you're prepared for the consistency that's required in being a multi unit concept. My second takeaway is that there is always room for improvement, even in your core product. You might think you get your recipe set for that core product, whatever that product is, that is kind of your hero item. The thing people have fallen in Love with your guests, fall in love with, and then you just leave it alone, and you just make sure you don't ever change it. That's not necessarily the case. Stephen was saying that here in the last year, they have worked on their rice at Fusion. Of course, rice is really core to the success of Fusion as a sushi concept. But they didn't just wait around and let their rice be. You know, they didn't. They didn't want it to be complacent. They didn't want to settle for the product they had. As Steven said, they have this mindset of being better every day. And so they had to extend to products like rice. So they worked on it, they improved it, and they made it better more consistently across their locations. You might be scared to play around with that core product, especially if you've been around for 16 years like Fusion has. But just remember, the aim should always be to be better, to raise the stakes, to improve the quality. And nothing should be precious to you. You know, you. Sometimes you have to make big decisions around even your core products if it means it's going to make it better. My third takeaway is that if your product travels well, you should consider fewer units in each market. Sushi travels very, very well, as I'm sure you know, especially in delivery. This has been a cheat code for Fusion because it means that they don't have to have so many locations in a market. For example, like Columbus, where I'm based and where Fusion has its headquarters. You know, they only have a couple of locations around Columbus. But even just with those couple of locations, they're able to reach most of this market, which is, you know, two and a half million people. Because sushi travels so well, it's not the case for burgers and fries, perhaps, or other menu categories that are going to lose quality as they travel 20, 30, 45 minutes. If you have a good. A product that travels really well, like sushi or some other item, consider the fact that you can really improve the average unit volume of your existing stores by keeping that number of locations in the market low and just increasing your reach through delivery and other means that can take your product across geographic territories like a big city. I think it's a great lesson because if you fill a market with too many locations, you know, you might cannibalize your own sales. You might make some sign some bad leases, make some bad decisions, and it might become a hurdle to your growth. You can be more efficient with fewer locations, with a better reach. My fourth takeaway is that customers can make their own decisions around health and wellness. Of course, last, oh, two years or so, we've had this conversation again about healthy eating. Everybody being a lot more interested in and aware of what's going into their bodies. You've had this protein craze. Now it's fiber. You have the Maha movement. Lots of conversation about health and wellness, which we saw really in the early 2010s when fusion first came up. Stephen made the point in our conversation that they were really focused on health as a big, you know, as one of their core principles at Fusion. They made a whole documentary about, you know, taking care of yourself and how Fusion is a healthier product. And the fact of the matter is, as Stephen was saying, is that, you know, they've learned over time that through especially customization, you really should empower your guests to make those decisions around health and wellness. I think the great example here that he shared was around the soda fountain that they have recently installed in Fusion locations. Before that soda fountain, they had craft beverages. They wanted the beverage platform at Fusion to really be a part of that health and wellness conversation. And, and at one point, Steven discovered that there were two women he saw who had gone somewhere else to get Diet Cokes and bring them to Fusion because Diet Coke is what they wanted with their sushi. And it was an aha moment for him that they didn't necessarily need to force customers to drink a healthier beverage just because they wanted to be that sort of health forward concept. And he realized there was lost revenue that they were losing to other locations, other restaurants or C stores or whoever it was that was selling the soda that's coming in to the Fusion with the customers. And it was an opportunity. So they switched out for Coca Cola soda fountains. And no, that's not going to be the healthiest product, but it's okay because customers still have that choice to make for themselves. So if you're considering ways in which your own restaurant can participate in this health and wellness discussion. Discussion, just remember that the customization and empowering guests to kind of do choose their own adventure with health may be the best option. You should provide some options for them, of course, to especially eliminate the veto vote. But you don't have to force your. You don't have to force the health conversation across your entire menu. In fact, it may be a better business decision to have just more options, including maybe some less healthy options, because it's going to let the customer make. Make that choice for themselves. My fifth takeaway is that branding guidelines can Help you tell your story and, and grow into new markets. So the big news here that Steven and I sat down to chat about was this brand refresh that Fusion is going through this year. They've got new colors, new fonts, new logo. I got to see a lot of it and I can, you'll see some of it on nrn.com and we share the story about this. And it, it, it looks great. It's, it feels modern and fresh. A big step forward for Fusion as a brand, which has had the same branding elements really for its entire 16 years. As Steven said this, they've really used the legacy logo, legacy font, and they have not changed much. Even though if you think about 2010 to 2026, lots has changed in that time frame. But, you know, Fusion's branding was not one of them. The important part here though, that I wanted to really highlight was what Steven said about branding guidelines. The fact that they had not as a brand, Fusion did not ever take a moment to put together guidelines on what its brand was, what it represented. What the story was they were trying to tell was through their branding. And this process of the brand refresh gave them that opportunity. They partnered with an agency on this to develop this sort of comprehensive idea of what is Fusion as a brand and now are really, you know, changing all elements of the stores of their marketing materials, their app, everything to tell that story through the branding. You know, what Steven was pointing out is, is that now that they're able to, now that they have these branding guidelines, they're able to point to those guidelines and saying, this is who we are as a brand. This is the story of who we are. And not only can that connect with guests, especially in new markets as they grow, but those guidelines will help them connect with potentially franchisees if they go down that route, or investors if they go that route. Whomever it might be, you should consider, you know, trying to connect with the stakeholders you have through brand guidelines that are comprehensive, that are consistent, that are clear, and again, that really help you tell your story of who you are as a brand. My sixth and final takeaway is that people align with like minded brands. So we, we talked a lot about Dutch brother, Dutch Bros. Stephen and I did, because, you know, Fusion has, has some merch as part of this brand refresh. And we were talking about, you know, Dutch has really thrived with merch. Especially people are obsessed with some of Dutch Bro's merchandise, especially stickers and hats and things like that. They do sticker drops where people line up through the drive thru to get these stickers and you know, Fusion as part of this brand refresh. As I said, they've had some merchandise themselves and so Stephen's obviously paying attention to all of this and I love that point that he made. This was basically a direct quote, that idea that people align with like minded brands. And a great way to do that beyond your menu is through merch, is through fun activities or drops like stickers in the drive thru or whatever it is. The point of the matter is that you as a brand have an opportunity to build a relationship with the guest. And of course you want that really first and foremost to be through your food. But beyond that, in order to build that relationship with your guests, to build that loyalty you have with them, you want to align with them in other ways through their lifestyle. And branding's a big part of that. This refresh that Fusion's going through is really accomplishing that. You know, ancillary products like merchandise, stickers, things like that, they can do it. Showing up in communities, that's another way to align with the lifestyle of your core customer, whatever that means to you and your brand. Look for ways to stand side by side, align with your customers in more ways beyond the menu, beyond the stores, because you will be able to build some great loyalty through that. Those are all my takeaways for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please remember to subscribe to Takeaway wherever you listen to podcasts and leave some feedback. You can also email me at sam.okasnforma.com thanks again and talk to you next week.