← Take-Away with Sam Oches
Take-Away with Sam Oches
Piada’s co-CEO on why now is the time to grow — 16 years after launch
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- [00:00]
A
Are you a leader at an emerging restaurant chain that's ready to level up? Then create the event for emerging restaurateurs is yous ultimate destination. This July 20th through 22nd, join your fellow restaurant entrepreneurs for three action packed days of connection, inspiration and growth. Meet potential new partners through our Speed Dating Style one to one meetings and get face to face with potential investors at the Investment Summit. Keynote speakers include Netflix star Phil Rosenthal, Channel Chipotle founders Steve Ells and Panda Express founders Andrew and Peggy Cheung. This one of a kind restaurant event is set against the stunning backdrop of Terranea Resort's California coastline. And hey, bring the whole family for vacation while you're at it. By registering for Create Today, you'll unlock specially discounted prices for Disneyland. Don't miss your chance to connect, innovate and grow your business. Register for create today@create.nrn.com welcome to Takeaway with Sam Okas, a podcast for leaders of growing restaurant companies looking to take their businesses to the next level. In nearly two decades covering restaurants, I've gained access to some of this industry's most influential decision makers and I'm letting you in on the conversations. In today's episode, you'll hear from the leader of an innovative fast casual about how to know when it's time to raise money for growth and about what it takes to carve a unique niche in a crowded marketplace. Lance Juhas is the co CEO of Piata Italian Street Food, a Columbus based Italian fast casual that has grown to 62 locations in 16 years. Piata was founded by Bravo Brio founder Chris Doody and it's earned a reputation over the years as a great operator with a one of a kind menu, one that's helped it to 29 straight quarters of same store sales growth. But to this point, Piata's growth has been slow and deliberate as the company pieces together the right playbook for growth. Well, that playbook is ready. And Lance, whose career included 16 years with Bravo Brio after stops with Jay Alexander's and Hillstone Restaurant Group, is steering the brand into its next growth phase. He joined the podcast to talk about all the little details that go into a great restaurant experience and about the right way to evolve a restaurant business. In this conversation, you'll learn more about why hospitality is the key ingredient that brings customers back, why you have to earn the right to grow, and and why you should never take the crab out of the crab cakes. If you learned something from this episode, go follow Takeaway wherever you listen to podcasts and leave some Feedback. It is the best way to get those lessons into the hands of fellow restaurant leaders. Jumping now into my interview with Piada's Lance Juhas. Also, don't forget to stick around after the interview as I will share my six takeaways from this discussion. Actionable insights that you can take with you on the go. Lance Yuhas, the co CEO of P. Piata Italian Street Food. Thanks for sitting down with me today.
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B
Thank you for having me.
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A
Absolutely. Sitting down in person here in Columbus, the very first Piata location. We're close to Ohio State's campus, this location. 16 years old now.
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B
Is that right? 16 years old. It's first one 2010, Chris spent around $600,000 to build it. First year did 2.7 million. Wow. And so he was like, well, I think we might have something.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah, that's right. Well, in 2010, I mean, that was probably the very early stages of the fast casual boom. You were just saying when Chris was researching this concept, he was looking at Chipotle, he was looking at Panera. Obviously those were the two kind of forebears in fast casual. But when he put this together, what were some of the, what were some of the ideas swirling in his head about what he thought Piata could be?
- [03:37]
B
Yeah, really? He again, spending a lot of time in Chipotle and Panera just kind of see what the service model, see if he could do Italian in that service model. He really wanted, you know, he thought Italian could work in the Chipotle model. Went to Italy a couple times. I think he had been there about 12 times, actually. Went to the city of Remini and there was a restaurant owner there, a little older gentleman that he got talking to, and he showed Chris how to make the piadina. So the, the, the, you know, wrap that we have, you know, flour, olive oil, salt, and took it back into the kitchen and showed him how to do it. And Chris is like, well, you know, I think this vehicle could probably work for the model in, in the United States. What he didn't want to do is bring the piadina back. You know, it's. If you go to Italy and you see the piadina, it's, you know, still thin crust, a little thicker than what our, our crust is now. And you, you fold it in half and cut it into a triangle. He was looking for something of a, hey, it's a sandwich handheld. So he was on the plane coming back from Italy and on a bev nap. And he wishes he would have saved the bev nap. And on a bev nap, he kind of drew out how the line would look, you know, for Chipotle. And then he really started to try to model, you know, what's the men you're going to look like, you know, we can do the piatas, chop salads. And the funny thing about pasta was I think he thought about pasta, but really didn't want to have to do pasta. The pasta came out of some of the focus groups that he had at an office building that he has up the street here for six months. He had test groups come in for six months to, you know, 30 people at a time. He had a line in the. In that office building. So he had a kitchen in the office building, and he would just run the focus groups through there. And again, pasta was kind of a second thought. There were some Ohio State players that came in during one of the test groups. They all had a piata, which they said was fantastic. So the chef was asking, is there anything that you would change? He goes, well, you know, we're looking for a little bit more substance. And so he was thinking, you know, I'm going to do this Italian faux pas and do carb on carb. So we had some. He had some angel air pasta in the back, whipped up some angel, angel hair pasta and put it in a piata, served it back to them, and they said, this is fantastic. Well, after cooking the pasta, he said, what am I going to do with this extra pasta? And that's when they had the epiphany of saying, maybe we should work on doing pastas.
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A
Sure.
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B
And to this, to this day, pastas are 51% of our sales. So it's working. It's working as a. As a maybe an afterthought, because the chop salads, he really want. Chris really wanted to do the piatas, the hand rolled, he really wanted to do as a sandwich. And, you know, being in with Bravo Brio Restaurant group when he was. When he, you know, founded that with his brother, you know, he had a lot of pasta around during that time, and so I think he wanted to kind of stay away from it a little bit, but it's definitely worked out.
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A
It pulled him right back in. Trying to get away from.
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B
It's like the Godfather, you know, I try to get out, but it pulls me right back in.
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A
How appropriate.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
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A
So you were at Bravo Brio?
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B
I was.
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A
So did Chris recruit you to be a part of Piata? How did you get over here to piata?
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B
I did. I started with. I started with Bravo Brio in 2000. I left JL Zanders and went to Bravo Brio. I was the GM here at Brio Easton for about six, seven months and then went into multi unit. I was with Bravo Brio for about 16 years. Chris left in 2006 when Bravo Brio was purchased by Castle Harlan and BRS. So both brothers were there at that time. They said only one can stay. And Rick, being the older brother, must have, you know, won the coin toss. So that's when Chris was out and started thinking about Piata. And again, I was still at Bravo, but in 2016, 2015, 2016, I started thinking about, what do I want to do? I've been at Bravo and brio for 16 years. And just at that time, as I was starting to think about what do I want to do, my phone rang and it was Chris. And he said, hey, listen, I don't know if you know an operator or not, but I'm looking for someone who can help me with operations. And great thing was I said, hello, you've got him on the phone. So it was great. 2016. I interviewed with him. I just talked to him for a little while. And again, at that time, my wife was like, you know, you should probably do something different. And it was perfect.
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A
Perfect.
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B
Stepping stone.
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A
Universe was talking to you.
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B
Universe was talking to. Now, my first stint in the fast casual, which was definitely different. I will say it helps if you have a culinary background, if you have a kitchen background. My first job was a dishwasher, so I was never a bartender or server. I. I would be a good server, bartender. I only know how to make what I like. But it does help having a kitchen understanding in fast casual, for sure. Yeah. Not to say if you didn't have. If you're just from the house, that you wouldn't be able to pick it up. But it is, you know, 90% kitchen, right?
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You started at Hillstone at Houston's, Right. And then you went to Jay Alexander's, then Bravo Brio. So, yeah, that's three companies that are very obviously, there's. Especially with Hillstone, there's this obsession over operations. There's this sort of perfection you're chasing, and that's interesting to bring that into the fast casual model. Why is that especially critical to Piata to understand how operations can really help this concept fly?
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B
Well, I think it's all about discipline in focus, really. I mean, the same things we did at Houston's and at Hillstone apply here. You know, it's following a recipe to the tea, you know, mise en place in the recipe before you start mixing things together. Hospitality, the greatest, one of the greatest things at Hillstone was my first day. I remember I was in training and I was with the gm. I was just following the GM and the first table actually had an issue with their steak. And he looked at me and he said, lance, I need you to go talk to that table of others day. I barely know the menu at this point, but it was all about really understanding hospitality, really understanding the need of the guest. And, and the cool thing that they taught you was being able to look at a table and understand if there's an issue at that table or if that table's, you know, going very well, if the experience is going very well. Because they were all about the non obtrusive service. You know, their service was silent and, and, but they were really all about the hospitality. So it really is about looking at facial expressions. It really is about, you know, talking to those guests when they come in. You know, if they're coming in at the host stand or here at the, at the line. You don't know how someone's day is going when they walk in the front door. But they taught you the discipline and focus around every piece of the business.
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A
Right.
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B
Uniforms. We, I mean, one of the things that we used to do at Houston's and we can't probably, they can't, can't probably do this now is we would line everybody up and check their uniforms. So it was a crease down the, the middle of the apron. How many pens do you have? Do you have your bank? Do you have your wine key? Do you have your lighter for, you know, birthday candle or what have you? And if any of those were incorrect, you had 10 minutes to fix your uniform. And I, the Houston's I was at was on Rush street in Chicago, which is no longer there anymore. But they had 10 minutes to get white shoelaces back in their shoe. And there was a white hen pantry around the corner. And I'm telling you, servers, if they had that, they would run because there were always five servers in the bar waiting to take your shift that day.
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A
Yeah.
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B
With a perfect uniform. And it wasn't about being, it wasn't about, you know, you weren't being me.
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A
Right.
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B
You were just sticklers about how that, how you wanted to present your restaurant and how you wanted to present the, you know, how your service was. So it taught me a lot about the disciplines around the restaurant business, like growing up. Started dishwashing when I was 14 and I worked in restaurants. I worked in kitchens from 14 until I went to Houston's. I thought I knew what I needed to know. I didn't. I didn't. But I learned it very quick. And. And that was the cool thing about Houston's is it was every. Everything was. You know, had a place, had a reason. And really, it's. It's. It's the discipline and focus around the business.
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A
Right.
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B
And the hospitality. Hospitality is what brings the guests back.
- [12:22]
A
Every Hillstone veteran I've met in this industry that's running their own restaurant or stillness industry, they're all operating at this higher level. Right. So it's like, to your point, it's not about me being mean. It's not about shaming them. It's about saying, hey, we have this higher standard. To me, and at the end of the day, in that moment, everybody's probably stressed and humiliated maybe, but, like, in the long run, it's setting you up for success.
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B
It is.
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A
Right. So I imagine you guys have a similar standard here at Piata.
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B
We do. We do. It is closing to open, you know. You know, you want to close the restaurant down to be ready to open in the morning. You know, it's about. It's. It's talking with the team about recipes. It's, you know, walking the line and looking at the food that's on the line at that point. And does it, you know, tasting everything in the morning. One of the cool things we used to do at Houston's and at J. Alexander's is they used to do a taste plate every morning. I'm sure they still do. I know Jay Alexander's probably still does. And you tasted everything on the menu to make sure that the profile, you know, the flavor profile was right. The greens were cut correctly for the salad mix, and we had the same. You know, we don't taste so much everything. In the morning, when they do a line check, they'll taste the sauces, and they'll make sure the temperature's there. You know, they're not making a piata and trying it, but they are trying the chicken, they're trying the steak, they're trying the meatballs. And so we try to bring some of those disciplines. You know, I tried to bring some of those disciplines that we used to have at. At Houston's and J's and even at Bravo and Bria, because even in those days, it was all about the recipe, the adherence to the recipe. The hardest thing is, is if you're. If you're making marinara and you're making marinara at Lane Avenue. You want the marinara to be the exact same as in Cotswold, North Carolina.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Right. And so that's why they were really sticklers. And we're sticklers around the recipe and really, you know, the production of the food during the shift. Also very sticklers about hospitality. I think, you know, food is what brings. The greatest thing about the restaurant business is it's one of the only businesses that when a guest walks in your front door, you know they're going to spend money. Yeah, I can walk in the front door of a banana republic. Doesn't mean I'm going to spend any money.
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A
Right.
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B
The guest walks in the front door of Piata, they're going to spend the money that they've worked hard to earn. And, and for us, it's. We want to welcome them into our house as our guest. And we. Because again, we don't know what kind of day they've had, but we want them to kind of forget about all that, come in, enjoy a great experience. At Piata, whether they dine in this, in the dining room, or they take it to go, we still want them to understand that it was built with hospitality. That's why we still, at this point, if you get a pasta that's chef created on the menu, they will toss it in a hot pan. So they take the pan, put the marinara or Alfredo, whichever sauce diabola, and they'll toss the pasta in that and then put it in the bowl, and when it comes out, it's steaming hot. So one thing you don't see in fast casual a lot is hot food.
- [15:31]
A
Yeah.
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B
And that's kind of where we've got a little bit of edge on some of our, you know, some of our competitors that we go up against.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But it is a really cool thing that we do.
- [15:43]
A
I mean, to that end, again, think about 2010 when you guys first opened to now 16 years, the evolution of the fast casual category. Right. Because in 2010 to, say, 2015, you had a period of time where there was a lot more playing with elements of casual dining, which is what you guys, I think, really are doing here too.
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B
Right.
- [16:03]
A
Which is like taking it kind of above the Chipotle model to what in the past I used to call sort of a fast casual 2.0. It's a kind of fitting between fast casual and casual even. And then you get 2015 to 2020, you start to have the third party delivery and online ordering. And then, of course, during COVID everything's about off premises and convenience. Tell me about where you kind of see the fast casual industry today and Piata's role in it. Because all through that 16 years, I don't get the impression you guys changed all that much. You. You kept up with the times, but you didn't change, you know, to. You didn't like, totally change everything to meet the different moments. So what is Piata's place in fast casual today?
- [16:42]
B
So today, the restaurant we're in today was built in 2010, like you said. When Chris opened this restaurant, he opened this restaurant with a. A second make line in a pickup window already. Already here.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So he was. Not that he thought, hey, Covid's gonna happen in 2020.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But he was for thinking that, hey, you know, it would be great if a guest could just come up to the. To the pickup window and grab their food off the second line to help alleviate a little bit of the. Of the. The main. Main queue. Yeah. So every restaurant after that, we built a second make line. Now, it may or may not have had a pickup window, but the one thing that Piata has definitely done is elevated the experience and elevated the experience of casual or fast casual with. With the tables that we have. I mean, they're all white oak wood. You know, the chairs are £500, basically. If you try to pull one out, they are so heavy, but they. But they last. And it's. I know it's a little bit of an industrial look, but it's a classic look. And, you know, we have the white. White tile in the back, and it is a little bit of elevated experience. Now, when we first opened and Covid didn't happen, and 60% of our guests were dining in, it was fantastic. You know, it's a great place to dine. Still is. We still have 60% of the guests coming in our building to get piata, but 40% of those guests are taking it out the door. So right around 20 is still. Still dining in the dining room. And one of the things that we played with in a few locations was we said, you know, after Covid, let's shrink the dining room a little bit. You know, not that it was a saving money type of deal, but it was. It was, you know, only 20% of our businesses, really. And at that time, because it's actually starting to increase. That time it was right around 15. After Covid. Well, when you shrink the dining room, you lose the ambiance, you lose the hospitality. There are a couple locations that we still have that are. That are open that are smaller. We have one in Dallas, it's in mockingbird and it's 1500 square feet. Was the old there's no birds unlimited. And it has literally 18 seats in the front. Now it does 2, 2.5 million. But when I visit that restaurant, thank God we have a hospitable staff and the team that's there is, they're so welcoming because when I walk in, I don't always sometimes feel that way about the dining room. And so we did go back to say, hey, you know, we're going to need to go back to our, the original, hey, let's make the dining room this size, this many seats. Because when you walk in, you want, you want it to feel hospitable, you want to feel, feel good. And it does feel good when you walk in this restaurant's. It's an older restaurant and. And it still feels good when you walk in.
- [19:36]
A
Absolutely.
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B
Yeah.
- [19:37]
A
Well, I. Thinking about the customer. I mean again, 16 years. So like today we talk all about Gen Z and if you think about like a 25 year old today, they were 9 when Piata first opened. Right. And I mean, makes me feel old. But thinking about just how much I know thinking about how much change the consumer has seen. Right. Because I think fast casual really took off with millennials were coming into their own discretionary income and they were chasing this sort of better experience in fast food. So now you have Gen Z. I'm still trying to figure out Gen Z, but I mean I think largely they're spending all their time on their phones. So that means to me they're probably ordering a lot on their phone. But like there's also maybe a bringing it back to we want the real, we want authentic. As you look at the sort of core consumer for Piata, how do you see the, what experience are they wanting out of Piata?
- [20:27]
B
They're wanting the same experience that we give every day. They're wanting that experience in house now. Yes, they, they are very good at their phones. They're very good at ordering online. And if they want to come in and pick it up and walk out with it, then that's what, that's what they'll do. But I think the one cool thing about Italian is that it's comfortable, it's comforting. That's the one difference when you look at if it's, you know, Chipotle or Acava, not that those places are great, Cava's great. I love being next to, we love being next to Cava. But you know, Italian is comfort. Food, it is comforting. And if you go to our restaurant in College Station at Texas A and M, those are all, you know, Gen Z's and Gen. What's the new gen that's coming up? Gen Alpha or whatever, there's a line out the door and they're standing in line and they are dining in the restroom. And I think that they want that experience. They want, yes, they want the food fast and they get it fast. They want hot food, but I think they want that same experience. They, it's comfortable and you know, third party starting to back off a little bit. A little bit. Still a little bit of a conundrum sometimes, but, but I think Gen Z is looking for that one thing that sets, sets you apart from the restaurant next door. And we do set ourselves apart a little bit from those other, from our competitors. Sure. So I think that's what they're looking for.
- [21:57]
A
So you as an ops guy, I mean, you've been watching the evolution of what is possible from a tech perspective, from an equipment perspective. 16 years. How would you describe the change of just what is possible for running a piata kitchen?
- [22:10]
B
Yeah, I need like a year to figure out this AI stuff. No, I'm just kidding. I have smart people around me to do that. You know, I listen, it is definitely AI has helped, you know, scheduling. It definitely helps with build to for the line, ordering food. You know, the only hard part with AI, it tells you exactly what you need to know about, you know, the guests that they think are coming in based on, on what your past was. We do about 10% of our business comes from catering and a lot of that is anywhere from 72 to 48 hours out. So it's kind of hard to schedule around that. So sometimes those are on the fly. But equipment is much better than it used to be. Doesn't, it's much easier to use, doesn't always last any longer than it used to. But AI is definitely helping on the scheduling front. And really, you know, it's that predictive scheduling. It's, you know, oh man, how many people do I need on this day? You know, you're, you're thinking it's, you know, what did we do last year? And you're trying to figure it out and you just plug it into hot schedules, AI platform and it goes, this is what you need, right. You know, now what again, what it doesn't know is, you know, how many more caterings are you going to have this this week. But then you can just add, you know, add people to that Short step. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's definitely, definitely, definitely different than it used to be. Yeah, but it's the same. You know, it's food, it's people. And I keep talking about hospitality, but I think we forget that sometimes. You know, I think, you know, the hard thing in the restaurant business is you're chasing a margin, you're chasing sales, and you're chasing a margin, and the one thing you don't want to do is take the crab out of the crab cakes. And I use that because in an old place I used to work at, in order for us to make a little more margin on a certain dish, we decided we were going to take crab out of the crab cakes. Now, we didn't completely take crab out, but there was lump in back fin, and we decided to take the lump out. And lump is really what you see when you break into a crab cake. You know, the back fin is mixed in there. And that is one thing with piata that. That I will never do. I will never take out what makes a dish successful. Now, if it gets expensive, sure, we're going to. We're going to try to find a better way to find the same product somewhere else that's less expensive, or we eat a little bit of that cost and kill the guests with kindness and kill the guests with hospitality, and hopefully they come back more often. But I'm not going to change. We're not going to change what's made our recipe successful. Sure. And made us successful.
- [24:47]
A
All right. Thinking about some of that, too. I mean, 2010, there was kind of like this race into fast casual. Right. So, again, kind of looking at the two biggest factors were Chipotle's success and then the Great Recession. So the Great Recession happens. There's this race to find that intersection of value and quality, and a lot of people are like, well, how do you recreate what Chipotle has done for Mexican into other categories? You guys plant a flag in Italian fast casual, And I think at the time, it was like, oh, boy. Okay, here we go. Who else is gonna come? You've never really had a serious competitor in this space. You know, there's some on the QSR side, certainly Italian casual, but. But why is it that Italian fast casual in your impression? It hasn't. You guys have really kind of been able to own this corner all to yourself.
- [25:33]
B
Yeah, I. I think, you know, traditionally, you think of Italian. People think of Italian as big table, sit down. You know, the service is not slow, but it's just a little bit longer of a cook, time for things a little bit more, you know, traditional, again, family oriented at a giant table and in. So it's not as easy as some of the other restaurants that are out there. Yeah, you know, Chipotle is great. I go to Chipotle all the time. But Mexicans always kind of been on. On an assembly line type deal, right? Fried beans, rice, you know, carnitas, whatever you're going to get. And Italian has never really been that way. And so it is difficult when we talk about making a pasta. If you come in and order a diavola and you walk in the front door and you go down the queue, they're going to toss that pasta in front of you in a hot pan. Now, that is. That is part of the. That is part of the dish. That's part of our hospitality. And there's cost behind that, but there's also something authentic about that, and that part of the authenticity will never take away and that we do get credit for. And I think when. When. When somebody thinks about doing an Italian fast casual, pasta's not easy. Yep, it's not easy. And again, it's 51% of our sales. You know, it's the, you know, how do you cook the pasta ahead of time? Par. Cook it, then you got to cool it, then you, you know, then you cook it again to, you know, bring it back up to temp, toss it and serve it. There are a lot of steps in that, and there are some other smaller, fast casuals out there that are starting in. In Italian. I know Dewey Kachina out of Seattle. Great, great couple guys. Honestly, they're really great. They're doing. They're doing a little bit different, though. They're doing a little bit on the kind of the, you know, Fazoli's model where you. You order it, you know, ahead of time. You bring a number to your. Your table, and then they bring the fresh pasta is what they're using. They bring it out to you in an actual real porcelain bowl or ceramic bowl. And. And so it's. It's kind of a, you know, twist between casual dining and fast casual. Yeah, but it's still not fast, like. Like a piata. And I think that that's kind of the differentiation between us and, you know, some of our competitors. And there have been a lot of trials and tribulations of doing different things. You know, we used to have different sandwiches on the menu. And actually, when we first started the company, it was create your own and you know, the one thing that we found was, you know, you could go to Chipotle and you could order. Put everything together on a Chipotle that's on their line, and it will taste fine. Right. You came to a piata at that time, and you did create your own. If you order a diavolo pasta, which is a spicy pasta, and you put strawberries on it and creamy parm. Listen, I'm not a rocket scientist, but that's not gonna. That is not gonna taste very good. And I've seen it happen. Yeah, I have seen people do that. And so early on, when I came on board in 2016, we were really trying to figure out, okay, why. Why is the attachment rate not as. As. As. As fast as it should be? And. And we hired an outside company to come in and say, give us the down and dirty. Give us what we don't want to hear. And that was one of the big things, was ambiance was great. Hospitality is awesome. The flavors were okay. And when we watched it, it was all to create your own flavors that were just okay.
- [29:17]
A
And.
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B
And again, that's going to be on us.
- [29:19]
A
Yeah.
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B
Whether, you know, whether I built it or the guests built it themselves, it's still going to be on us. So what we did is we. We toned the. The. The menu down, went more to Chef Creations. So we had 12 items. We went to 12 items at that time. And so four piadas, four pastas, four chopped salads, and it just took off. When the guest would come in and. And get something that was Chef curated, it just took off. The attachment rate started. You know, it was only. They only had to come back two. Two times. And then we had it for life.
- [29:53]
A
Yeah.
- [29:54]
B
And. And so that in itself is hard because there's a lot of things that are on the line, and we've taken some things off. But, you know, I think that was the little bit of a hard, you know, lesson that we learned early on. But the good thing is we haven't looked back since then. Yeah, it's been great.
- [30:13]
A
I mean, it follows a theory that I have that I think customization kind of peaks probably around the time you said 2016. Right. Because, I mean, think about some of the trends in customization. I mean, Subway was. People like to give Chipotle credit, but let's. Let's face it, Subway kind of created that mop. Oh, yeah, Subway. No, no dis to my Subway friends. But, you know, that started. They've closed thousands of locations, and they pivoted to a signature menu. A couple of years ago, Cava has pivoted to a signature menu. You guys obviously did that way before. I just wonder, like, obviously trends come and go in restaurants, but there was something about the customization trend that for millennials, it was like, let them have it their way. They want to do it, they want to choose. At the end of the day, I think there's actually a trust that restaurants and customers have, which is like, I trust you to come up with these recipes. I want to point at that thing and know that you, you have my interest at heart that it's going to be delicious. I think that seems to be the more the direction we're all going.
- [31:09]
B
And I think it's. And there's a lot less anxiety when you're in the line, you know, even, even for me now, you know, if I go into a piata and you can always tell a first time guest, you know, they'll stop and look at the menu that's at the front door or. And it's mostly men that do this because we, we don't know what we want until we get up there, right? And you see that consternation on their faces. We used to see a lot of it when it was create your own, and now it's okay, I can look up there and go, okay, you know what? I want the avocado piata with steak, you know, and okay, that's easy, right? But it was really that consternation of, oh, man, is this going to taste good? And we do spend a lot of time, our culinary team spends a lot of time, you know, going through the menu items that we have now currently, and going through those recipes and saying, how can we make this better? You know, they're always questioning themselves and saying, how can we make this better? It's not, how can we make this less expensive? Right? We don't want it. We don't want to take so much price. You know, we're gouging the guests by any means we want to look at it, say, how can we make it easier for the teams to run to make it, you know, prep wise and on the line? How do we enhance the flavors and how do those all come together, enhance the guest experience? And it all. It is a never ending battle. But it is the fun part about the restaurant business, right? It's, it's never, never ending. But we've got a. Listen, we've got a great thing here.
- [32:33]
A
Yeah.
- [32:34]
B
You know, it was a good move for me to come from, from Bravo Brio to, to Piata.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah, certainly.
- [32:39]
B
Yeah. It's been a good move.
- [32:41]
A
Yeah. You're at 62 locations today.
- [32:44]
B
Locations today. Ohio, Texas, Biotex, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, one in Kentucky, over in Florence, y'.
- [32:54]
A
All.
- [32:55]
B
And we're looking for next, next regions, probably either Virginia, in Florida, west coast of Florida.
- [33:04]
A
You've been in a little bit of a holding pattern for a little while. And you were mentioning before you hit record, there's a element of really wanting to perfect the operations here. Tell me about that. What is, what is the perfect piada that's ready to grow again?
- [33:18]
B
Yeah, I think the, the one thing that we say here is we. You earn the right to grow. Right. I think in any business, you've got to earn the right to grow. You're not going to take a business that you haven't run all the traps on and take it nationwide. That's, that's a blow your brains out strategy.
- [33:38]
A
Yeah.
- [33:39]
B
You know, and so what we really did was we, we looked at the operations, we said, okay, how can we make this as simple as possible? And we still look at it daily and how we can make it easier to operate because you have to, we have to remember when we, when we go to different states, we're now outside of the bubble and it's controlling what you can control. And once you have the playbook down and you say, okay, we're at two and a half million dollars, AUVs is the average. We're throwing off this in margin. This is our net promoter scores, this is our turnover. Okay. We're now ready to accelerate. We have the team, we've assembled the right people. We've got great support staff, we have amazing people out in the field. And so now is the time for us to grow. Got our first location. None. It's a licensing agreement at dfw opening end of summer this year. It'll be in Terminal B. That'll be our first one that's non traditional. So it's kind of a toe into franchising. Not saying we're going to franchise anytime soon, but it is a toe into that. But, you know, we're really bullish on Texas. Texas has been great for us. We just opened a new location. First one in San Antonio. Insurance station. It's done 100k every week since we've opened.
- [35:07]
A
Wow.
- [35:07]
B
It's our busiest restaurant right now. So we have a lot of help going there, a lot of people helping out. We have another one open up in the end of the summer in Heavener, just north of shirts in San Antonio. So.
- [35:19]
A
Sure.
- [35:19]
B
But again, you. You've got to earn the right to grow.
- [35:22]
A
Yeah.
- [35:23]
B
Again, I mean, we could get, you know, somebody could come in and give us $30 million to grow and could have done that when we had 20 restaurants or, you know, 30 restaurants. And. And our capital partner now is. Is private equity partner is El Catterton. And they came in and said, hey, Chris, and it was before my time. This is what we want to give you. And we're in their growth fund, too. But Chris was smart and. And he also believes in that you earn the right to grow. So he didn't just say, okay, we're going to open up 20 restaurants in one year. Again, blow your brains out. Strategy.
- [35:56]
A
Yeah.
- [35:57]
B
Because the hard thing is, is if those restaurants get behind and you have 20, 30 restaurants that aren't producing. Yeah, that's really hard to dig yourself out of. And. And I think staying true to what made the first piata successful is. Is what we do while continuing to make the operations better. Better all the time. We use technology to help us out, but we're not a technology company. You know, we built our apps internally. Our. Our VP of. Of Technology built. He did the iOS and the Android at the same time and launched them simultaneously. But we did that in house.
- [36:36]
A
Yeah.
- [36:36]
B
We have a daily dashboard that I can get on. Two gentlemen over there. We can get on it. Updates every 15 minutes. So I know what every restaurant's doing in sales every 15 minutes. I know how many people they have on how many people they've done the last. How many guests they've done the last 15 minutes. You know, when was the last line. Check this, that and the other thing. So we do punch above our weight in technology, but we're a restaurant company.
- [36:59]
A
Yeah.
- [36:59]
B
We're not a technology company, and you can sell yourself as a technology company, but at the end of the day, you're serving food right. To guests that come in and they want the food. Yes. It's great that if you have an app that gets it to you faster. Fantastic. One of the things we did in Church Station, it's so busy that we did tell our guests that were in the line, if you're. If you're looking to get out a little bit quicker, you can get on your phone right now and order in the second make line we had open. And. And it'll come up to you in the same amount of time.
- [37:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. Here in a little bit, we're gonna try some food.
- [37:31]
B
We are.
- [37:32]
A
Which is very exciting, especially because we're Pushing toward lunch and my belly is rumbling. So I'm excited about that.
- [37:38]
B
Great place to be.
- [37:39]
A
That's a great place to be. I. I'm curious about, you know, again, as you look to the future here, it's funny if you look at the restaurant industry today because there you have the casual dining industry, which is increasingly being dominated by just a few companies, of course, Chili's, Texas Roadhouse, Olive Garden, which I imagine you compete with to some degree.
- [37:58]
B
Some degree.
- [37:59]
A
So that's going on. The casual dining QSR obviously is thriving on discount and value today especially and fast casual. I'm trying to get a read on what's going on in fast casual because there was a narrative last year that it was starting to suffer because you saw Chipotle kind of struggle. Sweet Green's been struggling a lot. Fast casual sales kind of came down. But there's also this mindset of like, well, at some point, I mean, it was doing double digit comps. I mean, yeah, every single year, fast casual was. At some point it was going to come back down to earth. Put me in the moment today as far as what the guests want out of fast casual in general, because your food is really kind of a notch above. And I just, I suspect where we are at in the economy today especially, value is so important. Imagine the high quality food is going to start to become even more important in the next couple of years. Does that seem right?
- [38:47]
B
It does seem right. And I think value is a perception that's different for everybody. You know, value. When you think of like a value meal at McDonald's, it's, you know, you get a burger, a fry and a soda for X. Right. And so, you know, value for us is. And you'll get a pasta here in a minute and a salad. You know, the pasta, you can actually have two meals. There's no way I'm going to eat that pasta in one sitting. And believe me, I can eat. And so, you know, I think part of the value perception is what's the experience that I walk into? How's the food? How's the hospitality? How did I feel when I left and when I finished my meal, did it. Do I feel like I got a value for the meal? It's not just the food, it's the entire experience. And I think that, you know, one of the things I. And I don't know Brett Shulman, but I love listening to him. And we did have one walk by in Chicago one time. I was trying, I was trying actually he was coming out of an elevator we were going on the elevator and. And we, we all locked eyes for a minute.
- [39:56]
A
By the way, he's as great as he seems.
- [39:58]
B
Yeah, I, I believe that. I believe that. I would love to meet him personally, but. But I also think that he thinks that way. Like, he thinks that he knows it's the experience in the restaurant. He knows it is about the food. He knows it is about how. What is the unspoken piece that the guest had when they walk out your front door? Did they tell the next person that they were. They see, hey, I just want the COVID I want the p. Chiata for lunch. And it was fantastic. You should try it. Or did they walk out and say, that was just a men's amends? And I think that the guests are, are much savvier than they used to be. You know, back in the day, growing up, when I decided I wanted to go into restaurants, I mean, the reason I'm into restaurants is because my mom still has no idea what the kitchen was used for in her house. Right. They used to take me out to dinner. And, and so, you know, I grew up watching the Great Chefs of New York or Chicago on pbs. I didn't have the TV Food Network. So I do feel like the guest is, is. Is much more savvy than they used to be. And again, not that they didn't. Not that they used to be not savvy, but I think that they understand food and understand the expectation and what is their expectation. And I think we try to meet them at what is their expectation? And we try to go above that expectation. Expectation. And I think that the fast casual restaurants that are following that model and hitting it out of the park, I think that we. They will continue to climb and continue to grow. Those who lose their way, and it is easy to lose your way, those who lose the way about their food, about their ambiance, about their hospitality, it'll be. It'll be a long road to haul.
- [41:37]
A
Yeah, it's fascinating because, I mean, if you overlay this moment onto really when Piata first opened, you had the recession that led the QSRs into discounting in value, which fueled the interest in high quality but quickly served food, which was also fueled by Food Network and Food tv, overlay that onto now you have Covid and the economic issues that followed inflation, which drives the QSRs into value and discounting, which then TikTok and Instagram become that filter for the younger generations, which is. Well, I see this chef on my TikTok doing this, and then I want to Go, you know, find that high quality food at the restaurants today. And so if we follow, what then happens afterward from 2010, as you well know, you saw the boom in fast casual really take off because it was that perfect intersection of value and quality. And so you guys aren't reinventing the wheel here. You've really just been doing what you've always been doing.
- [42:33]
B
Yeah, again, we saw that create your own wasn't the way. You can still come in and create your own if you want, but we saw that that wasn't the way. And before I came on to Piata, I was in the casual dining world and it was all about, where are we going to get those next guests? Because it was about the value. And, you know, I think the, the, you know, we were doing very well at that time, but losing, losing your way a little bit because you were trying to figure out what is the value proposition that that guest wanted at that time when I was in casual dining. And it was what they want. They wanted what fast casual is doing. And. And I don't think that that's going to go away. And it's funny you bring up Chili's, and, you know, Chili's has been around forever.
- [43:18]
A
Yeah.
- [43:18]
B
You know, my, I think my second job in high school was at Bill Knapps, and I grew up in Michigan was at Bill Naps, and there was a Chili's that opened up next door to us. And my best friend at that time came to me and goes, well, this is my last week. And I'm, where are you going? He goes, going to Chili's now. That was in 1987. Yeah, I mean, in that. That Chili's is still there. So, you know, they've really, you know, they had what it took. They did some things that probably took them off their path a little bit, like not having any servers out front, you know, ordering on, you know, from your table. And you never saw really anybody. And then they kind of went back to that value play and went back to putting people in the dining room and went back to what their roots were. And again, you do have to change some things here and there. Bring it in at lto, or maybe you change the inside look a little bit with not as much orange and more black or what have you for a piata. But don't change what got you to the success. Right. Just continue to build on that and don't change that. You know, again, you know, going into a restaurant may have great food, but if you don't feel welcome going in, there are you really going to go back? Are you really going to go back?
- [44:30]
A
Totally.
- [44:30]
B
And, you know, I think the one thing that we do is we try to, again, value wise, try not to raise prices, keep things very reasonable. And I think with. The funny thing with Piata is, you know, you can get a lot of food for, for a pretty decent price. Yeah, a pasta could last you two meals, you know, for $14.
- [44:50]
A
So looking at the future, you feel clearly like you've earned the right to grow. You mentioned that, you know, you guys are in this position where it's like, okay, everything, the table is set.
- [45:00]
B
It is set.
- [45:02]
A
So where we go from here, what, what is, what do you see as being the next few years? What, what's, what's a key unlock for Piata to step on the accelerator?
- [45:10]
B
It's, it's definitely some capital. And, and again, you know, it's the discipline behind that capital, you know, whether it's, you know, a strategic or private equity or if it's, if it's, you know, debt, which never. No one's ever a fan of. Right. But it is having the disciplines around that and understanding if you get X amount, how many are you going to build, where are you going to build them, how much are they going to cost? And do we have the right people in place to continue to do the successful things that we're doing now? We're on 29/4 of same store sales growth and traffic. Now there are some quarters in there where the traffic was a little less than some of the others, but 29 quarters of that, and we're now starting the 30th quarter in the same trajectory. So we've been doing a lot of things right. Still learning as we go, but, you know, we'd love to, you know, go into a couple new DMAs, I think Virginia, Florida, Tampa, the West Coast. West Coast. Florida trades a little bit like the Midwest. So really looking for, you know, we want to look for a partner that doesn't want to change anything, that understands the success and can help us, help us continue to grow, get some synergies and, and yeah, let's take this thing to the moon. Sure is. I'm not getting any younger.
- [46:31]
A
None of us are, unfortunately. I'm not great at math, but if I'm doing those numbers correctly, I mean, that included Covid.
- [46:37]
B
You guys kind of. We were even in co. Wow. So we were able to say we were under the. When they, when they closed everything down, we went on, you know, we went below in traffic, in, in sales. But as soon as they opened things up, we rocketed back up and we, we ended even. It's amazing. So we do circle that one when we look at it, but even's even.
- [47:01]
A
Yeah.
- [47:01]
B
Great.
- [47:01]
A
Take it. Take the win.
- [47:02]
B
Yeah, take that win as we could. So, yeah, it was, that was, that was a tough time. But the cool thing was we were already ready with second make lines in pickup windows. So we were, we didn't have to change anything. We didn't have to bring any more new equipment. We were ready to go.
- [47:17]
A
Yeah. Which was, which was awesome thinking about that. Obviously we've all rehashed that season enough that we understand what that all looks like, but kind of going to the challenges we're facing today. I mean, any number of them, take your pick, right? We're still dealing with inflation. We're still dealing with a shallow labor pool. We're still dealing with. Well, we're now dealing with surging gas prices. What is keeping you up at night? What's the kind of biggest concern for you that you think hinders Piata's growth?
- [47:49]
B
You know, people always keep me up at night when it comes to, you know, what is the, what is the one thing that could really, you know, outside of, you know, knocking on wood, you know, one thing that could kill the business, you know, foodborne illness. Knock on wood again, that'll kill anything. But, you know, it's the peak. You know, it's finding a, you hit on it, it's finding the right people. Not as many people want to get into the restaurant business. You know, I think third party delivery is, is, you know, hurt, hurting the business. I mean, that is a, that is a margin drain that we never really saw before. COVID you know, I think, you know, Doordash and Uber were just starting to, you know, to, to come on. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't 7 or 8% of your sales or 20% of your sales, I should say, wasn't costing you 7% of your sales. You know, and I'm just using that as an arbitrary number, but I mean, that is a number that we never really had to work worry about for third party.
- [48:44]
A
Right?
- [48:45]
B
And now, you know, with us as business, 20 of our sales is third party now still sales. And, and if I can get a first time guest through a third party, great. But there's a lot of blocking and tackling goes around that to try to make up for the cost of that service. And at some, at some point it's going to have to give.
- [49:08]
A
Right?
- [49:08]
B
I mean, you Know, it's, it's the two behemoths. You know, it's Uber and, and it's Door Dash and, and they're both big in, in different DMAs. You know, Uber is really big in the, in the big cities of like, New York City, Boston, what have you. And Door Dash is very, you know, very suburban. Again, good services, helps us get our, our stuff out there. But that keeps me up at night because that is, that's a, it's a cost. That's, that's real. And you've got to think about that.
- [49:39]
A
Yeah.
- [49:39]
B
How do you get, how do you get that guest that uses third party to come use your first party?
- [49:44]
A
Right.
- [49:44]
B
Because that's very hard. Yeah. You know, it's very hard to. When somebody's used to doing X, Y and Z, it's very hard for them to say, oh, yeah, I'll come on yours, even though it'll save them money. Right, Right.
- [49:54]
A
Yeah. So this is where AI is really interesting because I'm just back from RLC and I had a lot of conversations around AI and you know, nobody in the restaurant industry likes to say they're going to replace people. And at the end of the day, this is the hospitality business and you need smiling, friendly faces to make the food and serve the food. But, you know, AI the way it kind of flattens the competition to some degree because now suddenly a mom and pop, a piata and a McDonald's are all a little bit on the same playing field as to some of the tools that AI provides. And obviously, I don't expect you're going to say, yeah, we're going to go replace all our people. But going back to the AI thing, like, maybe could solve for some of the people part of this automating things, even helping in back office stuff. Do you think about those kinds of things?
- [50:43]
B
Yeah, back office stuff. We're definitely using things AI wise at the sports set when it comes to finance. And there are a lot of things that AI can do that make, like ending when you go to finalize the period. You know, there are things that you can throw at AI now that'll do in, you know, 30 minutes that it used to take someone to do it a day to do. You know, I don't know if, you know, doing the prep. AI is never going to go back there and do the prep. Right. Sure. There are things that maybe a robot can do. You know, the one hard part is saying that, yeah, you're gonna, I'm gonna automate the front line, you know, what if somebody wants to change their order in the middle of the automation? Right. You tell the robot, hey, stop making that. I don't want beats on that. I want X. You can't do that. Right. And the interaction's not there that you lose that hospitality piece. But there are a lot of things that, yes, it can do the ordering for us based on what it thinks your sales are going to be. All those things can be done. Still have, you still have to put an eye on it and say, yeah, but we've got, you know, $80,000 worth of catering going out this, this week. You didn't know about. We have to throw this on there. But it can definitely help that, that way. I do, I can't remember what the company was, I talked to, it was a couple years ago and they were working on the face recognition when you walked in the restaurant. And the face recognition, they were going to really try it out in, in like New York City. And when you walked in the restaurant, it would recognize your face and it would order your, your most up to date favorite order. Now whether or not you wanted that. But we are mostly creatures of habit.
- [52:24]
A
Yeah.
- [52:25]
B
You know, when I order at Piata, I get an avocado chop salad or I get a, you know, chef favorite piata, you know, just depends on, on my day and how I feel. But if, if the AI knows that and says, well, let's see, the last three times Lance came in, he ordered an avocado chop, a salad and it does all the math for you. Today he's probably going to order a chef's favorite pia.
- [52:48]
A
Yeah.
- [52:48]
B
You know, now whether that works or not, if it does, I'm taking it to Vegas. And you know, but I think that's kind of cool because, you know, then you kind of, you don't have to use your app, although apps are easy. But you can just walk in and, you know, it knows, hey, you know, Sam wants to order, you know, the double cheeseburger and xy. XY and whatever else you want.
- [53:14]
A
Yeah.
- [53:14]
B
So yeah, he wants to drive 30 minutes to Freddy's and get that burger.
- [53:17]
A
That's right. It's funny because if you think about like, I think with new technology advancements, you know, as soon as a new advancement is out and we see what is possible with it, we shoot for the moon or we, we take this huge swing or we go way past where that technology really can benefit us. Self driving cars, drone delivery, robot servers. You know, it's like we know these things are possible and therefore we imagine A world in which those are possible.
- [53:44]
B
Yeah.
- [53:45]
A
Reality is it ends up settling down to something much more realistic. And so AI being a great example. I went through a drive through that used AI in the drive thru. I won't say whom because I put it on my TikTok. I filmed the whole thing on my TikTok. Comments were just like, who wants this? This is so inauthentic. This is not. Like, this is not what I want from that restaurant when I go through that drive through.
- [54:08]
B
Right.
- [54:09]
A
And I think there's some truth there, which is that, like, I understand AI in the drive thru will someday be normal.
- [54:15]
B
Right.
- [54:15]
A
And be very helpful to the restaurant industry. It's like we're not there yet. What you have to. You have to use AI in some of those invisible capacities that the customers are not seeing. I think maybe to some degree it's a customer facing versatility, not customer facing. Because it's like we're just. We can imagine these futuristic scenarios, but at the end of the day, especially in restaurants.
- [54:36]
B
Yeah.
- [54:36]
A
Guests expect something very human and very old school.
- [54:39]
B
I guess they do. Do you think with that in mind, do you think Chick Fil a would be as successful as they are today if they use that platform?
- [54:48]
A
Not.
- [54:49]
B
No way.
- [54:49]
A
Not at all.
- [54:50]
B
Like, we laugh when we go do development trips and we're in there with a broker and we look at the sales out of Chick Fil A and I know they were just talking about it and we, we make up words of saying, oh, this one's only doing 11 million. You know, it's like, you know, the one down the street was doing 15 million. But there's no way that those restaurants would do that if they didn't have those, if they didn't have their team members out there and, and looking you in the face and giving you a smile, welcome you to. To, you know, to, to Chick Fil A. And, and. And then you leave and you're like, wow, that was, that was great.
- [55:23]
A
Yeah.
- [55:24]
B
You know, there's the young ladies out there in a tent because it's pouring.
- [55:28]
A
Right?
- [55:28]
B
Yeah, but. But there's something to that, right? There's. And it's good. Like Chick Fil a is good.
- [55:34]
A
Yeah.
- [55:34]
B
But, you know, are there better chicken sandwiches out there? Probably, but what you don't have is you don't have that, that, that team member that's out there smiling at you, welcoming you to Chick Fil A and thanking you and telling you, have a great day and come back and see us again.
- [55:49]
A
Yeah. Well, you mentioned that restaurant with facial scanning. It's almost like if you do something like that, that has to be upfront. The reason you're coming here.
- [55:57]
B
Yeah.
- [55:58]
A
You're coming to check out this restaurant. It makes me think of in Boston there was a restaurant called Spice, later acquired by sweetgreen All Robotics. Right. And it was like it was again taking a new idea to the extreme of what was possible. Ended up selling a sweet green. Sweetgreen was playing around with the technology. I don't think it's to going, going anywhere. But it was like if you set the expectation for the customer that when you walk in here you're getting a fully robotic automated experience.
- [56:22]
B
Yeah.
- [56:23]
A
Then they're not expecting a my pleasure from the person in the drive thru. And it's like you have to do that up front. And I don't know, to some degree you must be thinking about that too. Which is like we're setting an expectation for the guest.
- [56:34]
B
Yeah.
- [56:34]
A
And then we're delivering on that expectation. We're not throwing in a wrench to mess with their expectation.
- [56:40]
B
I think if you know that up front, sure. You know, that's the expectation up front. But what's the percentage of guests that actually want just that experience?
- [56:48]
A
Yeah.
- [56:49]
B
Right. You know, it's, it was funny when I again when I used to work for Houston's, you know. Yeah. I worked downtown Chicago and yes, it was busy, you know, it was, it was a busy, busy restaurant. But guests used to come in and sit down and have a full lunch and they wanted the experience. They wanted that experience. And, and that's why they, they went to Houston. They knew the quality was going to be there, the consistency was going to be there. And I think that's what drives, that continues to be what drives guests to piata. The consistency is there, the hospitality is there. You know, welcome you in in the restaurant. Thank you. At the Cash, when you're leaving, can't wait to see you again. And sure there's probably, there are probably some things that I would go in and want to, you know, quick, hey, see my face, order it and I'm out.
- [57:35]
A
Yeah.
- [57:36]
B
You know, if I was working in New York City.
- [57:38]
A
Sure.
- [57:39]
B
I mean, I'm sure everything's mob, you know, and, and, and you just want something quick. But do you really want to do that for dinner?
- [57:46]
A
Right.
- [57:47]
B
And is that really what you want to hitch your platform on? Meaning do you really want to have a restaurant company that is all technology, all robots? I mean, think about it. The, the ghost kitchens,
- [58:02]
A
they were supposed to be a trillion Dollar industry.
- [58:04]
B
They were supposed to be a trillion dollar industry. And then we figured out, well, wait a minute, nobody sees who you are. Nobody sees a face. Yeah, you can, you know, doordash can come and pick up the, the, the, the food or you can go there and pick up the food. But it's just a transaction. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's, it's not experience of saying, hey, I'd love this, or oh man, I want to try this for the first time. And it's, hey, you know, how do you feel about what's your favorite piano? Right. You can't ask a robot that. Right, right. And, and you know, and you have got, you know, you have a team member smile at you and say, I love the avocado piata, which we have for you.
- [58:43]
A
Nice. Oh, that Tom Tum's starting to rumble harder. Again, it's the trust, right. Like what we were talking about before with, which is, you know, there's a trust that is, you know, you can, I mean, yes. Do I trust my phone and certain AI things on my phone to work at the end of the day, it's like I really only fully trust what's happening in front of me and you know, that I can see with my eyes and that's a human being. Right. And if you do it over and over and over again and if I know I come to piat over and over again and I get the same consistency, same quality, we have that expectation that trust share between us.
- [59:14]
B
Yeah.
- [59:14]
A
And I just don't think you can replace that.
- [59:15]
B
That. Yeah. If you're going to buy a washer and dryer and you ask AI, hey, what's the washer and dryer? What are the best value washer and dryers that I should, I should look at.
- [59:24]
A
Sure.
- [59:24]
B
It's going to take all the information that now it's going to say these are the top three and that's going to tell you. And, but for the best money, this is what I would do with the longest, you know, best warranty, yada, yada, yada.
- [59:34]
A
Right.
- [59:34]
B
Great. Who wants to go look at wire dryer again? When you come to have, have a, have a meal, you know, and you, you want the hospitality, you want the experience, you know, AI is, could help you with that. But is it really going to give you that experience?
- [59:51]
A
Well, going back to that example, if your friend tells you this is the washer and dryer you should buy.
- [59:55]
B
Yeah.
- [59:55]
A
Again, trust.
- [59:56]
B
Yeah.
- [59:56]
A
It's like, well, you, you know, other things, you're my Friend, I know you make smart decisions and other things, therefore, I think I could probably trust you or a salesman on the floor who you make a connection with, even. Like, you may not know them very well, but if they're a smiling face tending to your needs, you might trust them a little bit more than whatever it's said on my.
- [60:13]
B
Exactly.
- [60:14]
A
So.
- [60:14]
B
Exactly.
- [60:15]
A
Turning our eye back to the future, though, I'm curious about your perspective. You're looking for capital, like you mentioned, you know, it's my impression that a lot of, we still got a lot of capital on the sidelines. There's still a lot of investors kind of holding back. And really, ever since COVID it's been sort of next year going to be the boomtown. Is next year going to be it? What is your perspective on what's it going to take for that money to start kind of flooding the marketplace again?
- [60:41]
B
That's a great question. You know. Yeah, it looks like it's been, you know, everything you read in all the publications, it's, it's, you know, there's a lot of, lot of angst out there, you know, not knowing what one tweet might do. Right. And, you know, depending on whatever side you're on, you know, But I do still think that there's, there's, there's angst out there and pent up demand and there's money on the sideline saying we've got to jump, we want to jump in with something cool. Not just us, but that, but those who have the money to, to go out there or to at least make that, you know, have that transaction, have that money go to work. Because that's what it's all about, having that money go to work. That's what it's there for. And, and I think it's, I think it's starting to loosen up. Things that you read, you looked on. If you look on, you know, LinkedIn deals that are happening outside of distress deals or things coming out of bankruptcy or what have you, there's some, some things that are starting to loosen up a little bit. You know, listen, it's, it's, you can't help what some of the outside influences make you think. But at the end of the day, what, what's really going to make, what's really, what is really important and what's really important is, is this.
- [61:55]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:56]
B
You can only control what you can control. You can't control what someone's going to tweet two o' clock in the morning. I can't control what My wife's going to buy off of Amazon later today, but I can control the experience in here and, and I think that anything that's hot, anything that has the legs, anything that's definitely worth the look and worth the time, I think we'll get the look at the time.
- [62:19]
A
Yeah.
- [62:19]
B
And you know, again, it's, it's for us, we want to do the right thing with the right people and if it doesn't happen, then we continue to do what we're doing.
- [62:29]
A
Yeah.
- [62:29]
B
You know, we can only control what we can control and that sometimes is hard enough.
- [62:33]
A
Sure.
- [62:34]
B
Right. Being in this business. So I, I think, I think that, I think we'll see things start to loosen up a little bit. I think some things will get, start to get deployed, I would believe. And, you know, that's, that's all I know about. Yeah, sure.
- [62:52]
A
I appreciate your time today.
- [62:53]
B
Appreciate it. Thank you.
- [62:54]
A
That was my interview with Piata's Lance Juhas. So what should you learn from this interview? Here are my six takeaways. My first takeaway is that your customers will tell you what your star menu item is. I love the story that Chris Doody, who founded Piata, he had come out of Bravo Brio, he was looking for his next big project and he wanted to get away from pasta. But as he was developing Piada, they sampled some menu items with pasta. Guests fell in love and they said, we want more of this. They. So they put pasta on the menu and sure enough, it's about half of Piata's sales. I think this story is so emblematic of the fact that you think you know what your store, your star menu item is, what your core menu might be. But until you open the doors and you serve your customers food, you really never know what they're going to embrace. And it might be something completely different than what you expect, expected. My second takeaway is that hospitality is the key ingredient that brings customers back. Lance has this fascinating career because he worked for Hillstone, which is renowned for its hospitality, and he worked for Jay Alexander's and Bravo Brio. Of course, all of these are full service restaurant companies, all of them known for better service, better hospitality. And he brought that into the fast casual setting at Piata. And he knows so much about hospitality. And you can tell from this interview as he gets really into the nitty gritty details on what hospitality can be. As Lance put it in the interview, he said it's all those little details that you see from a guest when they walk in the door. What does their face look like? What emotions can you read on them? What is the cleanliness of the restaurant look like? What is the friendliness of the staff? What is the ambiance of the restaurant in that moment in time? All of these little details factor into that experience that you're providing for the guest. And if you want to provide great hospitality, you have to be paying attention to all of those little details. You know, it's interesting. Lance said something that I thought was really fascinating. I've really never heard it said this, said this way before, but he said restaurant industry. You know, restaurants are the only business where, you know, somebody's going to spend money from the moment they walk in. They're not just perusing the restaurant to make a decision, probably which they might at other retailers. They came in because they want to have a good experience. But if you want them to come back, you've got to wow them. You've got to show them why your restaurant is the one is the best choice for them, to show them that they were right when they made that decision to walk in your doors and your hospitality, all of those little details that go into controlling a great experience for your guest, those will decide whether that guest has that good experience and decides to come back. My third takeaway is that you should never take the crab out of the crab cakes. I love this. It's, you know, seems so obvious. But Lance was sharing an anecdote from his past when he shared that story of a restaurant that was taking actual, you know, lump crab out of a crab cake. You know, where the actual flavor of the crab kind of comes from. They were trying to cut some corners and save some money, and they made that decision, and it's become this great anecdote for him to share. When it comes to why you should never change what makes your restaurant great, if you're looking at your menu and you're looking at your experience for places to save costs, you should never, ever, ever touch anything that makes your restaurant special. That is a differentiator, because those are the things that your customers fell in love with. Taking crab out of crab cakes makes no sense at all. People order crab cakes because they like the taste of crab and they want crab specifically. I'm sure that restaurant got punished by customers after this happened because it's probably not going to taste anything like the crab cake they remember. And that's the point Lance is making as he talks about how to steer Piada into the future, how to evolve this business for more growth to come. It starts with not changing those Special things, those things that make Piada great. They feel like their menu is in a great place and they don't need to tinker with it anymore because guests love it. If they were to change it or try to cut corners simply to save costs in order to afford them to grow a bit more, it just would not work. My fourth takeaway is that customization is not for everybody. I get the sense that customization might be making a comeback. I think fast casual is due for another wave of momentum here in the coming years as we hopefully push away from some of the deep discounting going on right now. And with that, you'll probably start to see a lot more customization. You hear more about Gen Z desiring customization when they're choosing where to dine out. But Lance's story of, well, Piada's story of really how customization can go wrong at a place like Piata is. Is a story that you would do well to remember if you're looking at customization for your own restaurant. Piata, it's Italian, fast casual. And so when it started, it was in the vein of a Chipotle, but with Italian flavors. And you could build your own piata, a wrap, build your own pasta bowl, build your own salad. And they at some point were collecting data and saw that customers were not ranking them very highly on flavor. And when they looked into that, they were discovering that customers who were customizing their menu were. Were dinging Piada for some of the flavor choices, not themselves, because, of course, they would never blame themselves. And so Piada has really simplified things and gone to signature menu items. Four piadas, four pastas, four salads. And that the. The rankings have improved tremendously. And so that's a great lesson because I think customization works wonderfully for Chipotle, works wonderfully for sandwich concepts. In a lot of different ways, customization makes a lot of sense. But in Italian, maybe that doesn't make as much sense because these are flavors that guests are maybe not going to be as comfortable with or as familiar with and maybe not know what are the right combinations that are going to work. They will never blame themselves when something goes wrong on the menu. They're going to always blame the restaurant. So not just to get your own credit, but really to help drive repeat business, you may consider not doing customization. Customization if it is not a good fit for your type of concept. My fifth takeaway is that you have got to earn the right to grow. That was a direct quote from Lance. I think it makes so Much sense. You know, we can all point out several restaurant companies out there who have grown too fast, who made that decision to just race through as many stores as they possibly could, and then we all watch as the wheels start to come off. Piata's taken a pretty different approach. Obviously, 62 locations is a lot, but over 16 years, really, you know, that's a fairly slow growth pace. And as Lance said, is they've worked this whole time to try to earn that right to grow, which basically means they have worked that whole time to pull the playbook together that will get them to this national mainstream success that they believe is possible. For Piata, that requires a tremendous amount of patience. It requires a tremendous amount of discipline. And Piata clearly has shown both of those in spades as it's waited for 16 years to say to itself, okay, we're ready for that big time. We're ready for the show. We are going to chase national growth because that playbook is ready. When you're in your own growth mode at your own restaurant company, consider the fact that fast growth, even if it might mean a lot more locations, that is not always the healthy path to take because you maybe didn't earn that right to grow. A cautionary tale, as Lance says, is, you know, imagine if you open 20 restaurants and then those 20 restaurants are underperforming, and you're left with this hole to dig out of across 20 restaurants, not four or five restaurants. That's not a good place to be in. Get the playbook ready, make sure your brand is healthy, and then pursue growth that is smart for your brand. My sixth and final takeaway is that a guest's endorsement is gold. And it's harder and harder to get all of these details around this great hospitality that Piata provides. All of this. The great explanation that Lance gave us about what it takes to have a great restaurant experience that, you know, this experience at Piada that they've built over 16 years, the things that make that work, you know, it all comes back to wanting the guests to not only leave happy, but leaving so happy that they go tell their friends and family, you've got to go check it out. That endorsement, as Lance and I talked about in this interview, I mean, that is worth so, so much. How much more do you trust your friends and family for a restaurant recommendation than you do the Internet or some TV commercial, right? And so your goal should be wowing your guests so much that they're going to go give that endorsement. They're going to spread that word of mouth. But as Lance pointed out, you know, guests are savvier and savvier today. They have more and more choices. They've got their phone, you know, in their hand at all times. They've got all of these choices available to them. And so you it kind of sets the bar higher and higher for getting that endorsement. But that's what you should chase. How do you impress your customers so much through your food, through the store ambiance, through your hospitality, through those little differentiators in your concept that they walk out the doors and tell everybody they know that they gotta go eat at your restaurant. That should be the goal in the experience that you create. Those are all my takeaways for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please remember to subscribe to Takeaway wherever you listen to podcasts and leave some feedback. You can also email me at sam.okasnforma.com thanks again and talk to you next week.