← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Inside Music Stories: Grace Potter Chats with Buzz Knight About Family, Legacy, and the Joy of Live Performance
00:26:29
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- [00:00]
Grace Potter
This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.
- [00:04]
Buzz
If you've been sitting on a business idea for a while, consider this the sign to take action. It can even be made official today by creating a website with Wix Harmony. Just tell WIX Harmony what you want and it'll build the entire site, business features included. And everything can still be edited by hand. It's your website, your call. Try it@wix.com Harmony that's wix.com Harmony introducing
- [00:32]
Grace Potter
the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLCs. Sequences shortened and simulated
- [01:03]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [01:26]
Grace Potter
Visit your nearby Lowes.
- [01:31]
Podcast Host/Announcer
What's up y'? All? Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Guava Impact passion fruit flavors with mango Pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Taking a Walk.
- [02:25]
Buzz
Grace Potter, welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [02:29]
Grace Potter
Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here.
- [02:32]
Buzz
So, since we call the podcast Taking a Walk, I do have to ask you if you could take a walk with somebody, living or dead, who would you take a walk with? And where do you think you would take the walk with them at?
- [02:49]
Grace Potter
My great grandmother Charlotte. I would love to take a walk with her. She was alive when I was a very small baby, but I only have pictures of me being held like this tiny little thing. And she passed away before I was even a year old. And I just. I'm so curious about the wisdom and experiences that she could share that I don't think anybody else in my family would have thought to ask. And, yeah, she. She was also really musical, so I would love to get her take on what she thought of her little. Her. Her brother, Spiegel Wilcox, who was a trombone player. You know, what was the take from the family on that charismatic guy? You know, it's just all. All these things about my family and my ancestry that I'm. I'm really curious about. I think there's a lot of interesting skeletons in the closet that she probably wouldn't want to tell me right away. But that's what a walk is for, right? It's to sort of get those juices flowing, and suddenly, you know, the dopamine is hitting and the serotonin and the. And the vit is hitting your skin, and suddenly you're telling your life story. And I think Charlotte and I would have a lot to talk about.
- [03:59]
Buzz
Oh, I love it. I love it. That's so great. You know, you exude such joy and performance. How does it make you feel, you know, seeing that joy come radiating back to you when you're performing?
- [04:15]
Grace Potter
It feels like love. I don't know if everybody listening has had the experience of falling in love with someone where you truly feel seen, but what you're really seeing is your reflection coming out of their eyes and shining, the experience of experiencing you. And I think there's a feeling of, like, gosh, I must not be that bad if everybody's hanging out and they're not leaving. You know, I really understand that connection that's available to all of us that comes especially from live music. But I think it also happens in my daily life and in conversations where you're finding your own truth through other people's eyes and you're sharing joy. There's such a reciprocal experience going on there. I. I live for that, honestly. I think it's, like, my purpose on this planet.
- [05:12]
Buzz
So isn't it interesting when you sort of. People watch and you see, you know, so many frowns out there and so many scowls, and you just sort of think, boy, a little bit of a different approach that some people could take would really change a lot of worlds.
- [05:31]
Grace Potter
Totally. It's hard for me to. When I see people not being in receptive mode, like when you're in the elevator or on the subway and people are Shutting down. There's a reason for that. I think it's actually biological. I was just listening to a, an interesting book on, on why we shut down and why we close off and the signals that our bodies send out when we're not open. But I'm just one of those people who moves through the world with a lot of humility and wonder. I'm constantly in search of my next experience of awe. And I find it in people all the time, especially the ones you don't expect, like even a TSA agent who's screaming at the top of their lungs and suddenly you just say, how's your. And they just break open like the sunshine. And I, I just, I love it.
- [06:23]
Buzz
It's a difference maker for sure, you know, it really is. We're going to talk about medicine, the fascinating story behind medicine. That T Bone Burnett project that luckily has, has now reappeared, let's just say. But I do want to ask you a question, and it's from a listener to the podcast and also a musician. Her name is Emily. And Emily says your song release has always felt like the perfect example of music as a means of catharsis. Did you find that release helped you out of something in particular you were going through?
- [07:10]
Grace Potter
I think the thing I hold on to with that song when I was writing it, but also what remains now is the hope for healing. It's not this like definitive nicotine, nicotine patch of, you're going to be okay. It's, it's a question as opposed to a statement or declaration in which. And I really was ready to let go of, of and bury the skeletons that were holding me back. But I knew that the skeletons were holding on really tight and they weren't really ready to let go. So it's an invitation. That song is for me, more of a you hit me back when you're ready. You know, like one of those really brilliant voice memos or messages that you get from a friend. And you listen to it again and again because there's still a question in the air and maybe you're not ready to answer that question. That's really what that song captures for me.
- [08:12]
Buzz
Can you talk about the early days in Vermont? I know you still spend time in Vermont, but those early days, how did they shape you musically and with your sort of worldview today?
- [08:25]
Grace Potter
I, I didn't understand eras. I didn't know that there was like, dates in which records were made. In fact, I think growing up with a bit of a sense of timelessness in Vermont was, was very formative for me because I spent time with and loved socializing with people of all ages. I didn't have this understanding that there was like a sector or age group I was supposed to be in. And it served me really well because the more I found access to different points of view and different. Different natures and different inclinations and, you know, Vermont is a place where it can be a bit of an echo chamber of, I think there's a lot of intellectuals and there's a lot of farmers. So that mixed bag, I think, created a lot of curiosity for me as to how this group of people all ended up together. You know, the back to the land boomers coming in from Ivy League schools because they had done some ski vacation there in the 60s. Suddenly they're coming and planting their roots there among a large group of farmers who've been living and taking cues from nature for their entire lives and living by the season and living by the harvest, living by the. The hurricane or the. The flood that happened that year, it definitely grounded me, but it also left me constantly reaching outward and. And opening to whatever the rest of the world had to offer, mostly because I wanted to bring it back to the land just like my parents did. Culture is a huge part of my life. And yet, if you think about Vermont, there's only a few. It's sort of. The people get that glazed overlook in their eye, and they picture cows in a field. They picture Ben and Jerry's ice cream picture tapping maple syrup or skiing down a mountain or riding a mountain bike. But there's so much more. And from a very young age, I wanted to dig into that more. And I'm still doing that to this day.
- [10:28]
Buzz
Not that there's anything wrong with just glazing off to those things either. Right. And just.
- [10:33]
Grace Potter
Oh, we love that.
- [10:34]
Buzz
Right?
- [10:35]
Grace Potter
That's a brand. That's what we call a brand, baby. Vermont has a very strong brand, you know, and. And I didn't. I didn't. I wasn't aware of it until I got out into the wider world that. That not everywhere is like this. And it was kind of stunning to me, especially as I was heading west, especially through the Midwest and outward into the desert regions where life is so different. And people's way of processing and viewing things and just observing the world around them seems so much less about the weather and more about what exit are we going to take to get gas and where's the nearest movie theater or mall? We don't. I didn't go to the mall. There wasn't A mall. You know, my dad is a sign maker, and I remember when he got hired to do the signs for the mall, and it was like, it was a food court and, you know, basically an indoor farmer's market, and. And, you know, but I'd watch movies like Clueless or whatever, and I'd be like, okay, so there's definitely, like, a mall vibe, but I wanted to hear that Muzak. Like, we didn't have that. There was no Muzak playing. There was no. I think that the American dream version of life was something I had to discover, really, in my twenties when I. When I got out of state and started traveling around and playing music live, you know.
- [12:02]
Buzz
So take us back to 2008, stepping into the studio to record Medicine. What were you feeling then? Do you remember? Especially going to work with the iconic T Bone Burnett?
- [12:17]
Grace Potter
It was immensely exciting and world changing. I think my openness to the collaboration started because he was so open. You know, I was otherwise ready to take instruction. And, you know, I felt like I needed to behave myself. You know, I think I've been warned by executives and people in the industry that not necessarily not to stand up for myself, but to, like, just roll with the punches like it's. I was told it would be hard, like a wrestling match. Everything about being in the studio felt a little bit like brain surgery to me. Up until that point. There was a lot of opinions. There was a lot of people that weren't the musicians in the room who were immensely involved in the process. And to me, that as a young person, I was like in my late teens, early 20s, getting into the studio, I just felt like that must be how it is everywhere. And I didn't understand that I could be a force for change or even advocate for myself in the early days. And it took a lot of experience, and specifically the experience of working with T Bone, to understand that he cared about my opinion. He actually genuinely wanted to know what was my natural reaction to something. He would want to hear me just sing something down in the studio and see where my instincts would take me. And there was none of this sort of incision into my instincts to insert himself into that sound. It was much more effortless and organic. And it was a living, breathing experience of watching four strangers, five strangers in a studio become an organism that operated as one. And up until then, I. The only experiences I'd had like that were with my band live. And suddenly it felt more like I was in a concert hall and almost like a Quaker ceremony all at once. You know, there Was a very spiritual experience happening. It's because there was a reverence and a respect being not only thrown out into the. The tape reels and into the microphones, but shown towards me. And it was the beginning of my understanding that, that I had agency and creative importance in the room. And I had not expected that.
- [14:47]
Buzz
So why was this, you know, not released?
- [14:52]
Grace Potter
Probably they. Maybe I, I was, I. I think that the people that were used to being in the room hadn't been in the room. I think there's a lot of pride and ownership over the process. And at the time, like I said, there was a lot of hands on me, there was a lot of eyes on me, there was a lot of attention and a lot of money being spent. And the room that we were in was a very quiet, very still, very peaceful place. But that also meant that it was not a place of what do you think? And so there was no what do you think? Until it was completed. And I think they actually really liked the record. I think that, I mean, I got some really amazing feedback whenever there were little visits to the studio. There was very little input being put in. But there was a lot of like, just, wow, this is a very different pressure valve being pushed by your voice and this music sounds wildly different. And I think that it was a concern that the investment that had been made in me was one thing and that this was a hard left too soon in my career and that it would put me into a category of almost that legacy sound, that timeless sound that while heroic, doesn't necessarily need to or belong in the career arc of a 25, 26 year old woman who's just at the beginning. I think there was a lot at stake and they felt like taking a second crack at it with a producer who was more radio friendly, more aware of my age and the vivacious nature of me, which I think for so many female musicians it feels like there's a shelf life there. But I think, you know, Tina Turner can attest to the fact that that's not at all true. And I'm certainly doing the same thing now, you know, 20 years later almost. I've probably got more Viv sagaciousness in me now than I did even then because I have more of a command over it, you know.
- [16:58]
Buzz
Well, I think the work is amazing. So as I hear you explaining the situation, it sounds like, you know, from afar, sort of typical business gobbledygook that gets in the way of creativity and great work by an artist. That's my take. But you didn't say that I said it.
- [17:17]
Grace Potter
Well, I appreciate that and I think that true music fans are going to get a chance to judge for themselves and, and I think that anybody with any experience in the industry can hear what's happening and, and appreciate it. Even just the little bits that we have drizzled out into the world so far, there is a thunderclap of like, oh my God, this is that, this is that voice. But it's, it's completely recontextualized. And I think if I look at the timeline and I look at how my career had been going in the arc of what we were aiming for, this, this was the plane just, you know, tilting a little bit to the left. It was just a little bit of a subtle adjustment. And I always wonder what, what it would have been like if, if it had come out and how my career would have, how it would have adjusted things. Not because I'm unhappy with how things turned out, but because it was there all along, buried underneath, you know, and it feels like. I think timing is everything. And for whatever reason. I love the word gobbledygook, by the way. Timing and gobbledygook may have gotten in the way a little bit. Yeah, yeah.
- [18:33]
Buzz
I mean the music is so great. It's hypnotic, it's rich sounding. It's got that amazing, you know, backup crew which are sort of legendary unto themselves.
- [18:47]
Grace Potter
Yes, they're the hit hit men of music. I mean, it's just so.
- [18:51]
Buzz
There's so many, it's incredible. So it's so cool that it's out. What are your. Some of your other favorites off of it?
- [18:59]
Grace Potter
I think the thing I'm the most excited about is for people to hear the songs that they already know that, you know, for the people hearing it, it's going to seem like it's a reimagining of that song. But actually these songs were recorded before the song as they know it now because we made this record April May Mastering in June and then went back into the studio July, August, September to re record a large selection of these songs. So a song like Oasis, which I wrote with Mark Batson, who produced the, the eponymous record. I, I remember being in the studio with him when I, when we wrote it and it was the first song we wrote and, and, and then going into the studio with T Bone with this demo from me and Batson and then hearing T Bone take it and go, okay, but what if it was this? And then going back to recording it with Batson, it was a real masterclass. In the subtlety, but also the broad sweeps, the brave choices that get made. And that one, I mean, it's an incredibly avant garde approach to a song that otherwise people know as basically like a reggaeton drum beat and. And an eclectic set of visuals that still are there, but really the only thread that remains is the key of the song and the lyrics. But the rest of it has been completely reimagined. So that's one of my favorites, as well as colors. Another one that was. Was, I think, a paradigm shift from what it was to what it, you know, what it was when I recorded it with T Bone to what it was on the record with Mark. So those are, Those are the studies, the case studies that I really like to dive into. But on a heart level, I just think Losing you and before the Sky Falls are just like, ah, I just love them, you know, and no one's ever heard them before. So.
- [20:53]
Buzz
Yeah, I love them too. It's just. And I love how excited you are to get these out to the world. It's so important for it to. To be out. So as you reflect now on your experience working with T Bone, not the moment in time when it happened, but kind of years later, how do you think he made you a better artist?
- [21:18]
Grace Potter
I want to say the word trust, but that sort of was broken when the record didn't come out. But in the moment, it was trust. It was trust. He trusted me, I trusted him. There was an implicit understanding of what, exactly what we were doing and that faith in one another and in the directive. Like we had sort of a prime directive of like a dream state, trancy, elemental, conjuring. It was fearless. And I've never lost that fearlessness. And I don't regret the fearlessness that was implanted from that moment forward in my life. But I wish that the trust had been there, you know, and that it could continue through the thread of all the different people I've. I've been managed by and handled by. I, you know, I had different management at the time and. And I think there was a lot of thought and a lot of energy put into what was going on here because it was clear that I wasn't happy that the record wasn't coming out. And so there was. It was not so much a breach of trust between me and T Bone as it was with the greater, wider world of just like, what is going on here? Am I living in a. In a twilight zone? Like, what. How is this not absolutely what should be shared with the world right now, but in A way. I think that's what makes the record coming out now even more compelling, because it is such a curiosity and such
- [22:49]
Buzz
a treasure, you know, it is a treasure. Well, speaking of a treasure, too, you have experienced this treasure before. You'll be experiencing again. Going out on the road, playing dates with Chris Stapleton in particular. I know there's a couple Madison Square Garden dates, but you've had other dates with Chris Stapleton. Talk about what that experience is like.
- [23:13]
Grace Potter
No, I mean, talk about a treasure. He's. He's a truly just salt of the earth human who seems like he came from the primordial ooze of music. I. I've never met anybody more musical in my life. He's just got it and. And it comes out of him. The second he opens his mouth, it's like, you know, you don't. He doesn't need to wind himself up to get to that point. He's not precious about it. It's just there. It's just always there. And it's a stirring thing to be around. And you can really see that respect in his band and his crew. I mean, he's got such an amazing family of people that travel with him, and I think he's developed that culture of support within his group. It's just. It's an empire I want to live in, you know, I certainly would love to build that empire myself, but it's not bad to be in the caravan, I'll tell you what.
- [24:10]
Buzz
Yeah, it must. It's contagious, right?
- [24:12]
Grace Potter
Yeah, it is. And it's like. Like working with T Bone. I think there's a mastery to every craft. And I've been on many, many tours. You know, I've seen it, the same experience, similar, obviously, different crew, different vibe. But when I was out on tour with Kenny Chesney, just watching that organism of his crew and of the leapfrogging of his gear and his set and his backdrop from one venue to the next because they had to travel with two, you know, these are systems that. That work very much like nature does. There's a cyclical quality. There's an ebb and a flow and acceleration and deceleration to the process. But when you've perfected it to a form where truly, you know, there's a reason why these are some of the highest selling tickets. You know, over the course of any given summer, you look at numbers and you just go, wow. I. I have been exposed to that level of mastery only a few times in my life, but I never, ever take it for granted. And I think Stapleton is one of the best examples of someone who's really. He's cultivated it over a long time and put a lot of experience, a lot of heart and a lot of intention into it. And it's. It's a good. It's a good tool to have.
- [25:29]
Buzz
So in closing, are there. Are there any artists or genres to this date that you have not explored that you feel that you might like to explore at some point down the road?
- [25:42]
Grace Potter
Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, New Orleans is sort of my heart. Home. That's where I belong when I'm not home in California or home in Vermont or home on the tour bus. And it's exposed me to specifically jazz and blues. But I think that funk, soul, R and B, hip hop, gospel, every element that I pull from in my music is something that I certainly don't belong to, being a random farmer, mountain hippie from Vermont. But I think it just opens the floodgates for me creatively to want to explore deeper. And I've always wanted to score movies. So the instrumental and working with orchestras and working in this place where we go back in time and you look at Count Basie or you look at Billie Holiday, or you look at my Uncle Spiegel bringing it back to Grandma Charlotte. Uncle Spiegel, her little brother was a trombone player with Tommy Dorsey. And the big band spirit and the orchestra spirit are very similar. They all were pulling from New Orleans. You know, they're all pulling from this incredible gumbo of American music. And it's kind of an eternal. Well, you know, especially when I listen to instrumental music, I'm like, well, okay, just put some vocals to that. And we've got ourselves a whole record. You know, Martin Denny and Les Baxter and Esquivel and, you know, I love Hawaiian music so much. I would love to make like a whole Hawaiian record. I'd love to make an entire Spanish language record. I'm so inspired by bossa nova and I've always wanted to learn how to play flamenco guitar, having gone to Spain and spent time in a huge amount of time in Spain. So I'm just really scratching the surface, you know, of what is possible. And I'm never going to stop, you know, looking for that new and wondrous realm that I can step into. But it's. It's not a genre. I don't believe in time and I don't believe in genres, honestly. It's just kind of like I don't care when it came out. I don't care what country it came from. If it speaks to me, I'm gonna chase it down and find a way to interpret it and and find my own voice in it.
- [27:58]
Buzz
From the flying V to the Flamenco. Yeah. Wow. That is awesome. I believe it. Oh, Grace Potter, thank you for the joy you continue to give us. Thank you for letting us talk about medicine and talk about your creative process. And thanks for being on Taking a Walk. It's a pure joy.
- [28:23]
Grace Potter
I had so much fun talking to you, Buzz. I hope we get to talk again soon.
- [28:27]
Buzz
I hope so too. Thank you, Grace.
- [28:29]
Podcast Host/Announcer
All right, thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcast podcasts.
- [28:49]
Grace Potter
Introducing the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.
- [29:19]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [29:48]
Buzz
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- [30:29]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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