← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
American Original :Exploring Music History with Buzz Knight and Taj Mahal: The Blues, Authenticity, and the Spirit of Collaboration-Encore Episode
00:24:53
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- [00:01]
Taj Mahal
Taking a walk.
- [00:01]
Buzz Knight
There's a certain kind of American artist who doesn't just carry the tradition, they become it. Taj Mahal is one of those rare Souls. Born Henry St. Clair Fredericks in New York City, he found his path partly right here in our own backyard, studying at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, where the music he'd grown up hearing began to crystallize into a calling. He could have stayed in one lane. Instead, Taj Mahal chose the whole river, from the Mississippi Delta to the Caribbean, from acoustic country blues to reggae and calypso and beyond. He spent six decades proving that the roots of American music run deeper and wider than most people ever imagined. I'm Buzz Knight, and this month on Takin A Walk, we're celebrating American originals, artists whose music could only have come from this country, from its soil and its stories. Taj Mahal is exactly that. A scholar, a wanderer, a true believer in where the music comes from and where it still needs to go. There's something fitting about a New England education feeding the soul of one of America's greatest blues men. The roots don't always grow where you expect them to, and Taj Mahal has spent a lifetime proving that. When I talked with Taj, he reminded me that the blues isn't just a feeling. It's a living, breathing map of who we are as Americans. This is taking a walk. And next is Taj Mahal.
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Taj Mahal
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- [03:41]
Buzz Knight
Oh
- [03:45]
Podcast Host
Taking a Walk, Taj Mahal, I've been wanting to have you on this podcast for a long time. Thanks for being on Taking a Walk, sir.
- [03:54]
Taj Mahal
My pleasure.
- [03:55]
Podcast Host
So the title track of the brand new album is a Bill Withers composition that had never been released. Essentially a demo that almost disappeared. When producer Steve Berkowitz first brought that song to you, what was your immediate reaction when you heard it?
- [04:14]
Taj Mahal
My immediate reaction was that I heard all of Bill with his music, and one of the things about him was that almost every piece of music was different. He was the guy that composed a lot of different songs. And so there was. This was a part of a lot of music that he didn't ever release. And so I could see that his songwriting was moving forward because I never heard the rest of it. I think there was probably about maybe 60 other songs that he demoed and done, but this was one that I heard and I. And, and what, what sounded the most like him was that he took a leap in another direction musically, you know, but, but the similar thing was subject, you know, his, his idea of, you know, with the subject material and the tempo, you know, and the way he was never in a hurry, no matter what it was. I don't care how fast the tune went. He just went at his own pace and that's where I was at. I loved what he did because of that, you know, and he liked a lot of what I did, too. But in the same way we were, we did get to know each other and our wives had gone to school together in Claremont, and so they knew each other from then and, you know, we just had a lot of things in common. When he first came out to California, because he came from Michael, you know, Slap Fork, West Virginia, I was a coal miner in town. He was the only person he never went in the coal mine. And he was the only person in his family played music. So he was a pretty. Pretty close to the bone guy. There wasn't a whole lot of nonsense around him. He didn't grow up in that kind of environment. Grew up in an environment where people worked together because if you didn't, you didn't survive. And so when he came out to California, you recognized what I was doing and that I was in my own lane. But at the same time, I was an approachable person. A lot of times people are in their own lane and they're just not approachable. I always was approached by anybody, you know, as long as you come. Come to me with. As a human being, you know. You know, and I can read your soul, you know. But, yeah, it was exciting. And then, you know, when we finally did the song, I mean, he gave us the green light on it to do it. And then, of course, by the time it got done and he had passed, and this wasn't even close when he passed, when we got to the go ahead from him. And then later on, once the song was done and within I say maybe the last six months or so, we passed it by his wife, Marsha, and she gave the. She gave the official nod to be able to go ahead that she liked it, you know, so I was really happy, you know, it's a good song. I think about is like a lot, you know, like a lot of the tunes I do, I try to get to have songs that really say something about the time we're in. Not necessarily, you know, an anthem or anything like that, but just talk about what's going on. Your philosophy in life.
- [07:33]
Podcast Host
Can you tell that story when you met him? I think it was the second time he was putting up shelves for his daughter in overalls. Can you tell that story?
- [07:46]
Taj Mahal
Well, yeah, there's some details that blur. As I recall, I was walking down the street and I looked up, hey, man, what's going on, Bill? And he was like. He was in, you know, bib overall and said, hey, man, blah, blah. I was saying what you just said. My daughter got me putting up shelves in her. In her dorm room. She going to school at, you know, Columbia University. And so we were talking, you know, there's a couple guys rapping on the street corner, you know, and he was just telling me a lot, you know, about what his experience with the. With the. The record industry and that he stepped out. I admired him for that because he knew he had his publishing, you know, so he was. He Was. He was in good stead. And I didn't know some of the details about him, you know. You know, some people said, well, you left a lot of money on the table. He said, yeah, yeah. But he said, not if I have to compromise myself. And that was mainly, well, what's happening. See, like, I never really had that whole record company coming to telling me what to do and what to play and how to play it and who I should be playing with and get this person on the record. No, I will. They. They knew full well that I was not that person. No, you are not going to monkey with what it is I'm doing. So. And, you know, and if that wasn't going to work, well, then, you know, hey, put me off the label, you know, I mean, I'll handle it like that. So he, he was basically, you know, saying what it was that they were trying to get him to say. You know, you needed horns and, and backup singers and a B3 organ and that the pace and tempo of this music was too, too slow and you need to do something like you keep up with what, what, what, the tempo of the times. No, no. And I agree with him, you know, but we were just, we were just bantering it back and forth. It wasn't. No, you know, we weren't, like, rousing about the, the industry. It just was what he, what. He was just telling me what it was that was happening for him. Deal with it, you know, And I, and I, and I, hey, I course with him, I understood what he was saying, you know, you gotta stand up for what you represent, you know, represent what it is that you standing up for. And so it was all good, you know, just a conversation between a couple of guys, you know, and that was, that was, I think, the last time I talked to him in person and I thought that was cool, man. You know, dad comes in, puts on some overalls, gets in this, you know, measures two, three times, cuts once starts putting stuff up. Thought he needed some shells. That's real. I love it. That was real. That's what a man does, you know, appreciate him.
- [10:41]
Podcast Host
Yep. The new album also features Ziggy Marley on a rendition of his. His father Bob's Talking Blues. Bob's Talking Blues, yeah. What was it like bringing that song into your world? And, and, and what did Ziggy bring to that? It must have been an amazing energy, Tosh.
- [11:02]
Taj Mahal
Well, if you've been following the music around 1974, 75, I pivoted after four different albums. The Real Thing, which the double album Went to Tubas. The second album, Happy Just to Be Like I Am, which was studio album, which Tuba's real thing was a live album. Then I did two acoustic albums recycling the booze and other related stuff. Porn Sisters, different kinds of. I'm on the COVID with Mississippi John Hurd and Newport Folk Festival Dave Garfoto. And then I did USO Gooden Blues again, acoustic record and Recycled. And blues had pretty much been about the American music side of me. Southern music, okay. African based Southern music from this, from the United States. Now I pivoted to another part of my culture, lineage, heritage, which is Caribbean on my father's side. So that was music that started moving toward Africa. So this was not something that I just started. And at that point I did more roots music. Keeps me together satisfied and tickled too. And then that moved on to several different records with brothers, which was a soundtrack for Angela Davis and George Jackson movie. So I got to know Bob Marley personally and Bob Marley at my house. He and family man Skill Cole and Augustus Clavier. So this was the second time that I worked with Ziggy. Worked with Ziggy in 2008 album on Maestro where he worked on a tune called Black Man Brown man and so again presented it to him. He was more than happy to come on and present a cameo on a song that we were putting out. It was like. It's just, it's. It's the kind of thing you do when you got global family, you know. Hey, I got a tune over here. Can you come over? Yes, yes. Because I'm like, like he says I'm an uncle to him. His father said I was like an uncle to him, you know. So, yeah, it's. It was just keeping it in the family.
- [13:37]
Podcast Host
I love it. It's a big family too. It really back then in terms of the scene that was going on and I'm outside of Boston, so obviously the scene that was happen down the road in Cambridge, Massachusetts was just bursting at the seams in terms of music and the family of people that you all connected with. And then we as fans got to enjoy and just love maybe talk about some of that family that was around that scene. And of course there were in other places, New York City, in the Village and you know, the Philadelphia sort of, you know, scene of music. But talk about some of those people that were part of that family of music.
- [14:18]
Taj Mahal
Well, you know, I. I discovered that there was. It was a Club 47. I was going to school at the University of Massachusetts, Stockwood School of Agriculture. And. But I, you know, play music and listen. And it was. I was. I had come out of a situation where I hadn't realized how controls the music that I had available was in the town that I lived in, you know, because there's always these people who are in the corporate sector who are supplying the town with whatever it is, you know, it was great music. I was not. Not saying there was anything wrong with it, but I really didn't notice other aquifer that went down below beneath it. I know there was the Newport Jazz Festival, but it was only when I came to the University of Massachusetts, I learned about the Newport Folk Festival and then started seeing the people who were playing on it. And then also to the record stores in and around the university had all these other record labels. And it was like, wow, these people, I thought they didn't like us. Well, they're really interested and, you know, only unless you were some sort of commercial venue. But here, people who are recording this great music and these albums were available. You could. You could. And there were libraries at the university. You could take this stuff out and music booths in a music room that you could go and listen to this stuff, you know. So that was the first time I. I knew about books being in the library, but I never knew there was a record library and that many libraries would have a comparable collection of vinyl. It was like, whoa, really? Oh, okay. And so then I discovered all these other folkways. Stinson, Elektra, Folk, Lyric Rounder, all these other different record labels, all Prestige did some stuff. Prestige, Bluesville, and that. There were. There was a considerable bunch of people moving around in that. And then almost every decent city that had colleges around it had what they called coffee houses, which I kind of saw through the jazz and the beats and beatnik kind of thing. But then it moved. And then I found that it also accommodated people that were interested in, quote, folk music on, quote. And so that was interesting. And at that time, I started noticing a lot of young guys trying to play an older music that I had gotten through. Jimmy Reed and Jimmy Rushing and neighbors and whatnot. They grew up from Mississippi and North Carolina like that. So it was interesting. And kind of like that was when the whole thing that we're rediscovering a lot of people. Skip James, Son House, the whole Mississippi, John Hurd, you know, bringing Fred McDowell in and Nance Lipscomb and all these people that I never heard of before, but were nonetheless they something that I was looking, trying to find out, well, where are these people? And so all of a sudden I realized that there was a whole group of individuals who were not only playing the music, listening to the music, listening to these different people, going to see them, knew what their schedules were. And so I just got busy finding my way in. Pretty soon I was somebody who was doing the hootenannies and, you know, putting people on and having shows up there at the Club 47, playing in and around Boston. You know, I think the first gigs that I got there was the Turks had, you know, Arnold and Sally Cummings place on Charles Street. I got some. I got my spurs gigs there, Arnold's Pass. But Sally's still around. I know her family really well. I probably talk to them once a week anyway. She still has a. She got some great mementos from that particular time. And every now and then Betsy Siggins sends me some different stuff, or Mitch Greenho, who I talked to yesterday, you know. But I'm in touch with the people. Maria Moldar and other people that were around during that time. Joan Baez, recently. You know, it was a powerful scene. You know what I mean? It was once a young people who wanted what they felt was real music, which was not cluttered by the commercial sentiment. I like that. I mean, I was headed toward an agricultural career at the time with music being something on the side that I liked. Yeah, that was a hip scene, man. There was a lot of good people coming around. So as a youngster who was like wanting to see the real stuff that you can. You can get. You get to see it. And he could also see a lot of people who were being influenced by it, you know.
- [19:48]
Podcast Host
Oh, I love it.
- [19:49]
Taj Mahal
It's a good see. It was a very good see. Oh, also, what was the other one? Paul Small. There was another one over there, Club Passim, too. Passing. No, Passing. Passing was the old 47.
- [20:01]
Podcast Host
Yeah, got it.
- [20:02]
Taj Mahal
Yeah. Yeah. But there was one over in Boston, Copper Square. Can't think what the name of that place was. George Papadopoulo ran that one. Anyway. Yeah, that was. There were places around the play and then there also. Ann Arbor, Michigan was. You know, you were talking about the different places around, but almost every college town had a. Had a copy house. Like, you know, University of Massachusetts had one place run by a guy named Horace Waters. It's called the Saladin Obvious. Let's just see Bumpy say we're eating it. She was another person. Good friend of mine. Still a good friend.
- [20:39]
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Taj Mahal
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Taj Mahal
Exactly.
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- [22:19]
Taj Mahal
Bonjour. Bonjour.
- [22:21]
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- [22:34]
Taj Mahal
Phew.
- [22:35]
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- [23:48]
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Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [23:51]
Podcast Host
Taj, in 2025, you won both a lifetime achievement Grammy and a competitive Grammy for the album you made with Keb Mo. That is a rare thing to happen, to get your flowers and be recognized as a creator in today's world. Talk about what that all meant to you and how proud you were of that.
- [24:16]
Taj Mahal
No, I was very happy with it. Most of. Most of. The main thing of it was is that actually what I won that year for was for the Swinging Live at the Church in Tulsa. It was this year that we got nominated the record that Kevo I did called Room on the Porch. So. But that. Yeah, but, yeah, I was really happy. I was happy most of all because I had two of my daughters with me at the Grammys. And oftentimes I've spent time away from family to do the thing that I've done because I didn't never have. Never did have the music, you know, the music business behind me to blow up what it was I'm doing. So, you know, I was always in survival mode. And, you know, that took me away from my family, word for years on end. I mean, not that I didn't get back home, not that we didn't spend quality time together, but by the 8th of January every year, the next time I looked up, it was June. Next time I looked up, it was October, and then it was back to December, January again. I'm making it a point that every time I have something in that arena, I bring some family along with me to share in, you know, in the light and to share in my light. And it lets me know that people actually are conscious and have been following me for numbers of years. I mean, I have people tell me that they've been listening to me almost for, like, pretty near. Pretty near 57 years. And that's without hits and being accepted into, you know, the music scene like that. This is on its own merit, you know, and these are people who are finding their way there and moving that music on to the next generation. But, yeah, it was. It's. It's wonderful to know that there, you know, people, my contemporaries, you know, know that, and they like it and they let me know.
- [26:21]
Podcast Host
So in closing, Taj, we call this podcast Taking a Walk. Sir, if you could take a walk with somebody, living or dead, could be multiple People, is there anybody that comes to mind that you would like to take that walk with? Taj Mah, all is ready. What would you guys talk about?
- [26:39]
Taj Mahal
All this was country. Why I'm saying that is that with the Rising Suns, with Ry Cooter, Jesse Lee Kincaid, Gary Marker, Kevin Kelly, you know, myself, we got a chance to open in Los Angeles for several different groups. Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs, Booker T. And the AMGs, the temptations. And the Crowning Glory was a whole week of opening for Otis Spreading. When he came out to California. That was without a doubt, the most powerful live show that I ever saw. I mean, this is including all kinds of great music and artists who wasn't very much older than I was at the time. Within about a year or two, he was just phenomenal because I got a chance to meet a lot of different people. Joseph Spence, Sleepy John Estes, Yank, Rachel Hammond, Nixon, Fred McDowell. I mean, meet and hang with these people. Well, I can go on and on and on, and they're great people presenting great music. But I'm just talking about, in terms of somebody I would like to hang out, just, just, just talk to. I just love the way this man put his music together. And I got. And I also know his family first. I'm personal friends with his family, you know, just, just had, just had a lot of respect, tremendous amount of respect for what he was doing and that he was a real person, you know, and, you know, there are a lot of. A lot of musicians I met. Nobody moved like that. And then, you know, talk to him about what's happening in life. You fish, you know, what you do. Well, yeah, because I think over the years, I mean, Otis was really country. He really was, you know, but when it came to the music, he could throw down and there are a lot of good people. But you asked me somebody living or dead, that hurt me to my heart when that man we disappear from this
- [28:48]
Podcast Host
earthquake Too soon, too soon, Taj, I hope you could see him smiling ear to ear from talking to you. It's been a true honor. You are a treasure. I'm grateful for all that you continue to give us. Congratulations on the brand new album time.
- [29:06]
Taj Mahal
Check this out. Chaz will give you back your mind. Reggae will give you back your body. But the blues, the blues, the blues will give you back your soul.
- [29:20]
Podcast Host
Thanks for what you give us and thanks for being on Taking a Walk, Taj Mahal.
- [29:25]
Taj Mahal
Hey, you're welcome, buffs.
- [29:28]
Buzz Knight
I'm Buzz Knight and thanks for listening to the Taking a Walk podcast. Now please check out our companion podcasts produced by Buzz Night Media Press Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music Save Me Showcasing the healing power of music and comedy, Save Me Shining a light on how laughter is the best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are part of the iHeart podcast network.
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Taj Mahal
Before you get on the road for your next road trip, please put your phones on silent and take a mental
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