← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Andrew Reich- An Emmy Award Winner and his directorial debut
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- [00:00]
Buzz Knight
Please welcome aboard the Johnson family.
- [00:03]
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- [01:59]
Buzz Knight
Conditions Taking a walk I had a sense of how much other musicians respected them, but the extent of it I don't think I realized you know so many of these, you know, people from household name bands. When I reached out and like hey would you. They were just like absolutely like I love Red Cross and, and you know the these, you know, there are people I didn't even get to but you know, Dave Davies from the Kinks is like a fan. I mean it just go is pretty wide and I'm still discovering people that I had no idea were Red Cross fans.
- [02:35]
Lynn Hoffman
Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast. Thanks for checking out the podcast and check out the music Save Me podcast produced by Buzz Night Media Productions and hosted by Lynn Hoffman. Today Buzz Night speaks with Andrew Reich, the director behind the documentary Born Innocent. The Red Cross Story. If you missed Jeffrey and Stephen McDonald on our previous episode of this podcast, do check that one out. They're really something. Andrew is no stranger to the entertainment world, having made his mark as an Emmy winning television writer and executive producer for the hit show Friends. Here's Andrew Reich with Buzz Knight on Taking a Walk.
- [03:18]
Andrew Reich
Well, Andrew, thanks for being on Taking a Walk. It's really a pleasure to have you on.
- [03:23]
Buzz Knight
No, I'm so, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks, Buzz.
- [03:26]
Andrew Reich
So it is called Taking a Walk, as you know. And I do want to ask you the question, which is if you could take a walk with anybody, living or dead, doesn't have to be a music figure, but it could be. Who would you like it to be and where would you take that walk?
- [03:47]
Buzz Knight
You know, I feel like I cheated a little because I listened to, to the episode you did with Jeff and Steve from Red Cross. So I knew this question was coming and I was like, thinking about it and I'm going. I was like, you know, David Bowie or like Iggy Pop. I always had this feeling like, that I would get along with Iggy, like, if we ever could meet. Like, I felt like, I felt like we would, you know, and then this is. And then I was really thinking about it because. And this is going to seem like such a. Sort of lame in a way, but. But like walking through Hollywood with Jeff and Steve McDonald and hearing them just tell me stories about all the stuff that used to be there and the, like, the crazy adventures they got into, like, on every block of Hollywood Boulevard and that I'm like, I think as much time as I've spent with them, that would probably be the best. That would probably be the most fun walk I could take because there's an infinite number of stories those guys have. And, and it's funny because I was like, well, I could make that happen like that. You know, walking. Walking with. With David Bowie through London or whatever is impossible. But. And as cool as that would be, or with Iggy through, you know, Detroit or something, like, it might just be walking through Hollywood with Jeff and Steve McDonald.
- [05:05]
Andrew Reich
Oh, I think it'd be great. I would absolutely love it. And, you know, one of the great things about them is the rabbit holes, that conversations go down with them. It's just. It's incredible. It's so much fun.
- [05:18]
Buzz Knight
Yes. Yeah. Infinite. Infinite rabbit holes to go down.
- [05:23]
Andrew Reich
So tell me how you got inspired to make your directorial debut, is that correct? It is your directorial debut with Born Innocent, the Red Cross Story.
- [05:37]
Buzz Knight
You know, it was never a goal of mine to make a documentary. It was never an aspiration or anything. It really was just, you know, I've been a fan of Red Cross since I was in high school, since 1984, which was, you know, the first time I really heard them, which was They're Teen Babes from Monsanto ep, which I got because I was like this punk rock kid in New Jersey who had become a DJ on my public high school radio station, which a friend, the other, like, punk kid in my school, and I did really just so we could get free records. We thought, like, hey, you know, we get our FCC licenses, we get this radio show, we can, like, get the letterhead and we can write to these little record labels and maybe they'll send us free records. And it worked like, so well and, and then Teen Babes just came in a package one day and it was really not like the other stuff I was listening to at the time, which was just mostly pretty, you know, Minor Threat, Bad Brains, inspired Speedy Hardcore. And I didn't know any of the songs, they're all covers, pretty except for one, but I didn't know any of them because I didn't listen to Kiss, I didn't listen to the Stones, I, I, you know, I, I really, the first music I paid attention to was punk rock and then hardcore and. But there was something about that record that I just loved so much. And then that just started this kind of lifelong fandom of this, of this band and all the permutations. As different as every record was. I just loved all of them and always just found them more interesting than the rest of the groups of the scene that they came out of, like, you know, whatever. I love, I love the Circle Jerks. That was my first concert I ever saw. But they weren't as interesting to me as Red Cross. And so lifelong fan and moved to LA in 1990 and got to see them and just felt. And in later years, you know, we saw a show like 10 years ago and it's just like this band, this is the ultimate L A band, really, when you think about it, like every other L A band connects to Red Cross in some way. You know, it's going back to whatever, to the Beach Boys. Like, they're both, you know, bands of brothers from Hawthorne to whatever, you know, the Runaways, the Germs, the Go Go's, the Bengals, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, you name it. Like, there's going to be there's going to be some connection to Red Cross. And so I was sort of having that thought in my mind and then I heard Steve McDonald tell this incredible story of this sort of abduction that happened to him when he was young on. On this other podcast. And this turned out a punk podcast that Damien Abraham does. And I heard that story and I told my wife about it. I was just like recounting the story and I was like, someone needs to make a documentary about this band. Like, it would just make such a good documentary. And she said, well, why don't you do it? And. And I just, you know, I just started thinking like, you know, maybe this isn't as crazy as an idea as it, as it sounds. At first I was just like, you know, I'm not a director or documentary filmmaker, but I've been a writer in TV for 25 years or so, so, you know, I can tell stories. And I did have these mutual friends who I knew could introduce me to the band. And I don't know, I just sort of like made my pitch to them, which they responded to, and then it was just a process of figuring out how to do it. But I think what helped is just this long time fandom and, and not just of them, but of all the. The other musical worlds that they were a part of. So everyone I interviewed I could talk to. I think musicians and music people sense like, are you really a music person? And with everyone they, you know, I know I've been an obsessive for long enough that any of these people I met quickly got a sense of, okay, this guy kind of knows what he's talking about. And when they were at a loss, they can't remember, whatever, who played drums for this band, often I would know that. And there's just that language that, you know, you're a music person, you know, when you find someone who speaks the language. And so, yeah, so that was how I just of stumbled into this thing, which is, you know, taken up the last like eight or nine years of my life and has been the most fun, rewarding thing probably I've ever done, really.
- [10:11]
Andrew Reich
All right, but tell me how your experience as a TV writer and producer, particularly your work on Friends, how it influenced and prepared you for the work on this documentary?
- [10:23]
Buzz Knight
Well, I mean, I think that knowing Red Cross and knowing Jeff and Steve, not, not personally knowing them, but knowing them via, you know, reading interviews and fanzines and, you know, YouTube clips or. I knew they were really funny. And I think it was part of what drew me. I was just like a movie about these guys has the potential to really be funny because they're just. They just are naturally funny people. And so in any. You know, I've tried writing dramas over the years, but it just never feels right. Like I. I just want the laughs. Like, I just. There's something about writing comedy where it's a. It's very clear whether you got the answer right. You know, it's like, did the audience laugh? If you did, then you. That was correct. You wrote it correctly. Right. So. So I think I was drawn to this because I sensed that this movie could be funny. It's not exclusively funny. There's dark moments in it and there's, you know, there's heartfelt moments. But. But I think if I didn't feel like the movie could be funny, it wouldn't have been interesting to me. And what I had to. So there are a couple of things. You know, you write in network tv, you've got very strict time guidelines for how long something can be. You know, it's like you. This thing is going to, you know, when you're talking about a network sitcom, it's going to have to be about 21 and a half minutes, like, whether you like it or not. It's even gotten shorter now, probably, but. And so you learn to cut things that you really love and just get over it, you know, not be too sentimental about it. And, you know, I love this joke or this scene, but it's got to go. And so I think that helped me once I decided with making this based on seeing some other music documentaries I thought just overstayed their welcome. I was just like, this movie is going to be under 90 minutes. Because I was just sort of fast forwarding in time to imagining this movie living on a streaming service somewhere and some music documented music fan coming across it, not knowing red, who red crosses, but maybe seeing like, wait, okay, there's members of Pearl Jam and the Go Go's and Black Flag and Soundgarden and, you know, like, huh, this seems like maybe it would be interesting. How long is it? Oh, it's under 90 minutes. I'll check that out. Whereas if it's like, wait, it's two hours and 20 minutes, forget it. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna spend that much time on a band I've never heard of. So I just had this. You know, I was thinking about that imaginary viewer going like, huh, 89 minutes. Yeah, I'm gonna check this out. And I know once they had a feeling, once they Started it, they would get sucked in. So I was just like, it's gotta be under 90 minutes. And that involves cutting a lot of stuff out that I really love. But I think that training of being a sitcom writer helps train you. And then the other thing was just, it was frustrating because I wanted to have the movie just be told by the interviewees and the. And the archival footage, not have a narrator, not have a lot of text on the screen telling you the story, just telling it just through sound bites of the people I interviewed. And then so there's times where you're just like, well, I wish I could write. You know, my instinct would be to write a punchline or a joke or whatever. But you can, you can't do that. You have what you have. But I learned, oh, the images contrasted with the audio consumption. You can get a laugh that way. And so it was this sort of new comedic language of learning through the editing. And when people see the film, I think they'll better understand discovering, okay, I can just, I can find a new language of comedy sort of in these editing techniques. And so when I watch it with an audience and I see where the laughs fall, it's just like, okay, that worked. You know, I just figured out a different way that's not exactly writing, but is a kind of writing. So. And the timing of that is again, something that I've learned over just many years of doing TV half hour comedy is, you know, timing is so precise. Like, I've sat in lots of editing rooms editing shows, and it's just like, the cut has to go, like right there. If we're a few frames early or late, it's no longer funny. It's like, right there is where the cut has to happen. And so when I was working with my editor, there was a lot of that same thing. Like, no, we have to cut here and that'll produce a laugh, but if we let it linger a little bit longer, suddenly it's not going to be funny. So I think that timing, that editing timing, you know, that was honed over years of being a comedy writer, really did, you know, was helpful and was reassuring because I went into. It's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea. And then was like, wait a minute, I kind of do. It's just a little bit different. But some of the skills and the experience does apply.
- [15:29]
Andrew Reich
It comes across. It's. It's legitimate. It has an amazing flow to it. It keeps you engaged and wanting more of it. I have to ask you, the MacDonald brothers talked about their parents who were such an instrumental part of, you know, of their life and part of the documentary. And they talked about the bickering nature of the parents as well, which they, I believe, said that the parents have mastered the art of bickering. Did you witness this firsthand?
- [16:07]
Buzz Knight
You know, maybe a little. There wasn't, you know, that interview with the parents, which is such a key part of the film. Took me a while to get, you know, it was years of sort of saying to Jeff and Steve, hey, could you think I could talk to your parents, you think? And they're just, like, putting me off and putting me off. And I think they were worried about them doing it, you know, not wanting to do it. They're, you know, somewhat shy. And, you know, I just felt it was really important, you know, especially in terms of this sort of abduction story that I'm gonna keep hinting at with and try not to spoil for. For viewers. And so they were quite nervous in that interview, for sure. And, you know, you do what you can. I certainly didn't start the interview like, let's talk about when Steve got kidnapped. You know, it was just like, let's talk about happier things and funnier things and talk about the grandkids and try and get them at ease. And, you know, but they were not at ease. They, you know, they were not really comfortable being on camera. I think I kept having to tell Terry, their dad, like that. That fidgeting thing you're doing is. We're hearing that, you know, the mics are picking up this, like, fidgety thing that you're. You're doing, and, and. And. And there were things like that. But ultimately, you know, you do get a real sense of who the. Who they are and that they're just these, you know, kind of souls of the earth, working class people who were good parents and not checked out. And, you know, yeah, their kids ran wild a little bit, but not totally. They always had this sort of loving, you know, family to go back to. And maybe there was a little bit with the two of them of. Of bickering back and forth, but not like Jeff and Steve. You know, there was way more bickering that I captured in the interviews with Jeff and Steve than with Janet and Terry. So I didn't see as much of that. A few, you know, there's a moment in the film where, you know, they're going through all these Red Cross T shirts that they've collected over the years, and Terry, their dad, is just like, it's a good shirt. Maybe I'll wear it. And Janet's like, no. No, you will not. So there's a few moments like that where you. You see that dynamic. But, no, they weren't really at each other. And I did make them relive the worst months of their life, that time when Steve was gone and they had no idea where he was or alive or dead or whatever. It's a traumatic thing that I was asking them to really go back and relive, which was not fun for anyone. But they finally did see the movie. They hadn't seen it until just a few weeks ago. They came to the Santa Monica screening that we did, and I was really nervous, you know, to have them there and finally see it and what they were going to think. And I talked to them after, and they. They loved the movie, and, you know, they were all good with. With their appearances in it, and so that was really a relief.
- [19:15]
Andrew Reich
And regrettably, I had so much hysterical laughter from me in my episode with the brothers that I did not really touch on the kidnapping. I apologize. So I'm glad you're. Because I just wanted to. But we were clearly going in this other direction of euphoria that I just couldn't resist.
- [19:40]
Buzz Knight
I get it. Yeah. We're talking about Divine and whatever. Yeah. And it's okay. It's like, I don't want to, but.
- [19:48]
Andrew Reich
It'S an important part of the story.
- [19:49]
Buzz Knight
Obviously, it's an important part of the story, and yet it's not in the trailer. I just didn't want to be exploitative about it. It is important. It had to be told. A lot of people who are fans of the band didn't know the story, just like I didn't until, you know, probably 10 years ago. But so it's understandable you guys were having too much fun to talk about, you know, unpleasant things like that.
- [20:11]
Andrew Reich
So what, as a fan, did you learn ultimately, in the process of doing this about Red Cross that you didn't know?
- [20:19]
Buzz Knight
I mean, there are. There are little things. Like, I had. I had never seen that Rock Against Drugs MTV spot that Jeff did with Vicki Peterson from the Bengals when they were dating, which is just this incredible, like, bit of footage that I could not believe when I saw it. So there's. There are little things like that, but I probably. Mostly what I learned, they were always kind of Jeff and Steve McDonald to me, this. This entity, you know, Jeff and Steve. And I didn't quite have the sense of how very different they are, and just Their personalities are. Are so completely different. I mean, they have so much in common, but they're completely different people. And so I think that was the main thing was really getting to know them and the roles, the different roles that they play in the band. And I think by the end of the film, I may have heard from lots of people that they really do feel like, okay, we feel like we know these guys and we get their dynamic, this sibling dynamic. And it's familiar to a lot of people who have siblings. And that was, you know, the main thing that I think I really learned and becoming friends with with each of them, you know, you know, the friendships are sort of very different because they're such different people. And so I think it really was the distinct personalities where I really just thought of them as this total unit. Growing up, listening to them, that was the main thing that. That I took away. And I think. And I guess too, like, I had a sense of how many. How much other musicians respected them. But the extent of it, I don't think I realized, you know, so many of these, you know, people from household name bands, when I reached out and like, hey, would you. They were just like, absolutely, like, I love Red Cross. And. And, you know, the. These, you know, there are people I didn't even get to get to. But, you know, Dave Davies from the Kinks is like a fan. I mean, it just goes pretty wide. And I'm still discovering people that I had no idea were Red Cross fans are. You know, I said from the beginning, like, even the Kickstarter material, I'm like, they've always been this sort of secret handshake band among real sort of music obsessives and, And. But the extent of that, how the Red Cross fans kind of come out of the. The W is really cool For a band that never sold a ton of records or, you know, had any hits, like, they've got fans in all kinds of places.
- [23:03]
Lynn Hoffman
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [23:07]
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Buzz Knight
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- [25:43]
Buzz Knight
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- [25:49]
Lynn Hoffman
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [25:53]
Andrew Reich
Can you talk about a couple of the key interviews you did with musicians and how they felt about the impact that Red Cross made on them? Because there's a bunch of them but single a few of them out?
- [26:07]
Buzz Knight
I mean, I guess the easiest to talk to is just The Seattle grunge scene. Pretty much everyone from that scene was a Red Cross fan. And they were very important to that movement. And I think it does surprise a lot of people. Because they don't exactly sound like a grunge band. But when I talk to Mark Arm and Steve Turner from Mud Honey and, you know, and Green river before that, you know, the beginnings of that grunge movement was, you know, it was Green river and the Melvins and Malfunction. And there are, you know, a few bands that those guys really do say, like Red Cross, Teen Babes from Monsanto and Neurotica particularly, you know, what that movement came out of was there were, like, the punk rock kids, you know, who were big Black Flag fans and. And. And metal kids. And the coming together of those two groups is what sort of begat grunge. And they all say, you know, that Teen Babes from Monsanto and Neurotica were records that both sides could agree on. So you're at a party and there's this co. Mingling starting to happen of these two sides. Which had been sort of kept separate and at odds. And they're starting to hang out together. But you got to decide, like, what do you play at those parties? It was like Red Cross. Like the metal kids, the punk kids were like, we all like Red Cross. And so when they came to Seattle to play in 1987, that. To me, to talking to these guys, there are these moments like, you know, when the Sex Pistols play at the Manchester Free Trade Hall. And everyone that's going to go on to form bands. From like the Buzzcocks to the Smiths are at that show. And it has this big bang kind of effect. I think that Red cross concert in 1987 at the Crescent Ballroom in Tacoma is another one of those moments where everyone's in the room, so Kurt Cobain's there and, you know, the opening bands are Green river and Soundgarden and Malfunction and, you know, so those are the roots that are. That will be, you know, obviously those bands, but also Pearl Jam and, you know, so. So every major figure that's going to be in this huge thing that's going to change rock music in the 90s. They're all there and they're all agreeing like, this band is incredible. I think that's really important. And I think the guys who started Sub Pop will say that that Red Cross was what in Neurotica was one of the things that. That inspired them to start Sub Pop Records. So, you know, I think that that's a huge contribution that few people know about. And you know, you know, so that's one. I mean, I think there are others. I think each phase of Red Cross's career they've inspired different groups of bands. You know, obvious their first incarnation, you know, their drummer becomes the lead singer of Black Flag and their guitarist starts the Circle Jerks. You know, so obviously, you know, they're a big part of that Southern California hardcore. The inception of Southern California. It wasn't even called hardcore when they started. They're just thinking of themselves as a punk rock band. But they're there right at that moment that Southern California hardcore starts. Which, you know, goes on to have a huge impact on music as well. And I do think even I wasn't able to document this as much, but I think they were an influence on the Brit pop movement too because in the early 90s they played a lot in the UK and, and I think just the way they looked got copied by bands like Suede and the Verve and, and I think their sound did have an influence on Pulp and Blur and Oasis and those bands. But it's something that I can't, you know, I wasn't able to get the, the proof by talking to those bands. But I, but I do think that time they spent really gigging a lot in the uk, the sound they had at the time, I hear in a lot of those bread pop bands.
- [30:39]
Andrew Reich
You know, what's also fabulous about the documentary, it's not only the story of Red Cross and Born Innocent, but it really takes you through a moment in time that some of the things I remember and some of it I don't remember. In terms of the way that you captivate us with that, what was the job like with archival footage and finding it, how long did that take?
- [31:05]
Buzz Knight
I mean, it took the whole, you know, I guess we could say the movie took like seven years to make. And that whole time I was always seeking out more, you know, footage. You know, I started with a big box of VHS tapes that Jeff McDonald gave me. I got another box from the guy who runs the, the Red Cross website, Robert Hecker, their long time guitarist, gave me a box. So there's, you know, so that was a lot of material. And I had to, you know, get a VCR and go through each of those tapes and see what's, what's on each of them. And then it was just sort of putting the word out however I could to see who else out there, what other fans maybe taped a show at some point and there were Incredible discoveries, like, all throughout. I mean, the good thing about it taking so long to make was I was finding really great stuff, like right up until the end and stuff that if I had made it quicker, I wouldn't. Wouldn't be in the film. So when, you know Greg Hetzen, their. Their first guitar player, who started the Circle Jerks and played in Bad Religion, and I was asking him, I was like, hey, you know, for the part where I'm talking about the formation of the band, like, it'd be cool if, if I could get like a high school graduation photo or something. Like, do you have something like that? And he was. And he was like, yeah, you know, what I've got is my dad came to our first show at the Hong Kong Cafe and he took a bunch of pictures. I. There's slides in a box somewhere. Would you be interested in that? And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, there's a photographic record in color of the first Red Cross show. And it took me a while to get him to dig them up and scan them and. But so in the film there's these incredible photos of, you know, of their first show that you never see color photos of that early punk Roxy. They're all black and white. All the main photographers were shooting black and white. So that was like a crazy cool thing. And there was also, at some point I was like talking to this company that licenses a lot of public access music shows and stuff like that. And I was talking about this footage of a later concert that had been shot by this French TV show. And the guy was like, hey, I also have the Red Cross's first TV appearance. Would you be interested in that? I was like, what are you talking about? And I guess they had been on New Wave Theater, which is this kind of. Of, you know, famous public access show in la, was started on public access and then went to USA Network where a lot of underground bands played. And it's the only existing footage of a lot of these bands. But I had no idea that Red Cross had been on it. And no one had ever seen this. This foot. The guys hadn't seen it. And it was at this early moment before they made their first full length, the Born Innocent album. And it's professionally shot and it looks great. And you know, so. So that's in the film. That was another incredible discovery. So, you know, part of the job of being a music documentary filmmaker is being an archeologist. That's a big part of it. The archeology part of it is. Is big And a band like this, an underground band, started in the 80s. Like, it's a hard job. They weren't on MTV. You know, there's not a lot of professionally shot stuff. Like I. So I watched that Wham. Documentary, which I thoroughly enjoyed, but I was like, oh my God, they have so much TV footage to choose from. Like, this band was so well documented by professional camera people. I didn't have any of that. You know, there's a few professional music videos from their brief major label moment. But the early days, it's really hard to find anything. And even, you know, that Crescent Ballroom show in Tacoma I'm talking about was a major moment. I still haven't been able to find a single photograph, bit of video, anything from that show. I'm just. And it kills me because I know it's out there. There had to have been someone in that crowd with like an Instamatic, you know, who took a few shots. But I asked everyone I could think of in Seattle and no one was able to come up with a single photo from that era. So, you know, that digging was a. It was a big part of the job and it was great when you found stuff, but there'll always be frustrations of shoot like I wish I had. You know, Thurston Moore's talking about their first show in New York, and it sounds so incredible. There's just no documentation of it that I have been able to find. It doesn't mean it's not out there. It's just like, you know, it could be in a box somewhere, but I didn't find it.
- [35:50]
Andrew Reich
Well, I think you're going to find more. So now that the McDonald brothers have corrupted you forever in this life of being a music documentarian, what's up your sleeve next?
- [36:02]
Buzz Knight
You know, people. I've gotten asked that a bunch and I don't know, part of me just feels like I think this could be it. You know, it could be.
- [36:09]
Andrew Reich
Oh, get out.
- [36:10]
Buzz Knight
Come on. It'd be like, you know, Charles Lawton directs Night of the Hunter. And that's it. That's his only movie ever directed. He just. Just, you know, he's got a bats a thousand right. It's like I'm a bit spoiled because I like those guys so much, you know, like they're. They're good people. They're so smart, they're so fun, funny. They're so fun to be around. So they're great. They're only makes them great protagonists for a movie. But the process was just really pleasant. When I would Ask them, hey, could you maybe connect me to Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth? Like, great. You know, get me on a text thread with. With Kim Gordon. Whatever I needed, whenever I needed an intro to someone, they were happy to do it. And even now, as the movie's coming out, it's like, hey, you know, you guys, the Las Vegas screening, they want us to. To be there in person. Like, cool, let's road trip to Las Vegas together. So they're so engaged and cooperative, and they were okay with me saying to them, like, hey, this is my movie. You guys don't have final cut. You don't really have say, I'm going to make the movie. Just know my intention in doing this is I love you. This band, I'm not trying to, you know, do some kind of takedown. I'm just trying to make you guys better known. But I'm gonna do that my way. And I may include some stuff that you don't particularly love. And they were like, we get it. You got to make your movie. To me, the experience of working with them has been so great that it's hard for me to think of another, you know, and obviously, I could make another documentary that's not a music documentary, but in terms of just making another music documentary, like, there's something about making one about a band where. Where they're still alive, you know, like, where it's not. You're not talking about someone who's passed, and it's got to all be archival footage. Something great about having the people just there to tell you their story. And thinking of a band I love this much where I think I would like the people, because there's a lot of music I like made by people who I probably really wouldn't want to spend time with. And then on top of that, you got to find a band that doesn't already have a documentary. And so it's kind of hard at this point. It's not like there are no plans. And I still, still, you know, I have a day job as a TV writer, and I've got a pilot that I'm hoping is going to go and I'm going to get to make. So. So there's that, but. But on the other hand, I feel like I learned so much about how to do this, and I would love to put that knowledge, you know, into use. I think it would go a lot smoother the second time because I just. There are so many things I did out of just complete ignorance of what I was doing. And now I think I know A little bit better. I'm sure. It's the kind of thing where I always say, like, writing pilots or whatever, each script you write, you have to learn how to write that script. It's not like you're ever at a point like, I know how to write, so I'm going to write this thing and I know how to write it. No, you don't know how to write this story, and you have to learn how to write that particular story. And so I'm sure any movie you make, any documentary, it's like you have to learn how to make that documentary. But certain basic things about how it's done, I now know, and it would probably go a little bit smoother, so we'll see. It's just, you know, it's. You have to be so interested in a subject to. To do this. And luckily, I'm still just as interested in. In these guys in this. In this band. I'm just sort of endlessly amused and fascinated by them. And it's also, as you sort of pointed out, I think talking to them, it is a bit of.
- [39:55]
Andrew Reich
You get a bit of a history.
- [39:56]
Buzz Knight
Of Los Angeles and Los Angeles, you know, I love this city so much. You know. Right. You know, as we're talking, it's. It's a very rough time for LA that we're all going through, but it's also a reminder of just, like, how much I do love. It's not my. It's not my hometown, it's my adopted town, but. But I love it. And I'm. And I think there's, you know, the history gets erased here, and a whole ton of history just got wiped off the map. But there's so much fascinating stuff. So, you know, the beginnings of the Red Cross story, which is like whole neighborhoods being destroyed to build freeways, you know, that's been forgotten. Everyone drives on these freeways. No one thinks about what was cleared to make room for them and how it was done, and just eminent domain, taking people's houses and in some cases, just like, picking them up and moving them somewhere else. And what it was like for Jeff and Steve to be the last inhabited house in their neighborhood where every other house had been torn down or moved. You know, things like that. There's just a million, like, great LA stories. And so that was really fun because telling their story, you have to tell a lot of the story of Los Angeles over the last, you know, four or five decades. And so I loved. I loved that about it, too. So I don't know, you know, I think it will be just like this was just this sort of moment of inspiration of like, I want to see this. Like, I wanted to see this movie. And that's always the best. And when you're making something because it's. You just want to see it, that's always the best. And so it's why I'll often at these screenings be like, I'm just going to sit and check the sound and picture and then I'm going to go. And then I'm like, wait a minute, now the movie's over. I just sat through the whole thing, you know, because it's the movie I wanted to see. And so that's what. What needs to happen is I have to think of like, oh, God, I wish I could see that. But it doesn't exist. So I guess I'll have to make it. Like that feeling will come with something else. And, you know, hopefully I'll. I'll make another one. But for right now, I'm just trying to get as many eyes on this one and get people to see it and make them some new fans and just, just hopefully get people who are. It's okay if you don't know them. It's okay if you haven't heard of them. I think it's still a good time.
- [42:23]
Andrew Reich
It's really a good time. And by the way, I cannot imagine what that ride to Las Vegas with you guys going to the Punk Rock Museum was like. I'm just like laughing so much inside about the thought of that. That must have been a riot as well.
- [42:40]
Buzz Knight
I could just say that we've spent probably a good hour and a half talking about Martha Stewart. Just, you know, just to give you a sense of, you know, like, what kinds of topics are discussed.
- [42:50]
Andrew Reich
That's great. I love it. Congratulations, Andrew. Everybody should check it out. It's going to be available on, on various platforms, right? For a while.
- [42:59]
Buzz Knight
Yeah. Right now it's like we're doing. I mean, it is so much like sort of indie band tour, like the rollout of this, of this film, which I think is just appropriate. But yeah, RedCrossFilm.com has all the screenings listed and we're adding more all the time. So the best thing is to go there and just sign up for the emails and check back every now and then because, you know, things, things get added and they're getting added in some cases just due to demand of fans, like getting in touch and saying, like, hey, you know, we think we could promote a screening here. And so, so yeah, we're going to be doing that for the next couple of months. And then it will live@that redcrossfilm.com website and be available to rent or buy, you know, directly from there. And, and beyond that, I think once it's there exclusively for a period of time, you'll be able to rent it on your Apple and Amazon, all those kinds of places. And then we'll see. You know, I hope that down the road there will be a Netflix or whatever who wants to, you know, buy the film to put it, to make it available to screen for free. But, you know, that I think will depend on how much word of mouth is built from these theatrical screenings and that, you know, it's, it's a challenge to, you know, pitch this movie to a Netflix river where people might not have heard of the band. Like, what? And, and a lot of people don't get it until they see it. It's just like, say, like, you don't need to know them. You really don't. I guarantee it's going to be a good time. And so I think that word of mouth, every little bit of word of mouth is going to help the cause. And what I like, too, I do think people, the movie makes people happy. It's just you come out, you smile through most of it and you come out in a good mood and there's no tragic ending. And, you know, this is just, you know, it's not the typical rock and roll success story, but it's a total rock and roll success story because they're still going and making amazing music and, and playing and bringing joy to people. And so I think in what feels like some dark times, like the movies, it's fun. It puts me in a good mood still.
- [45:27]
Andrew Reich
So same here. Same here. Without a doubt. Congratulations, Andrew Ricana, for being on Born Innocent, the Red Cross story. What a blast. And thanks for being on Taking a Walk. I really appreciate it.
- [45:39]
Buzz Knight
It was great to talk to you. Buzz, thanks so much.
- [45:42]
Lynn Hoffman
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:01]
DraftKings Representative
The unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special Guest, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moms moments. Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.
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Buzz Knight
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Buzz Knight
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