Buzz Knight and Narada Michael Walden: Embracing Change Through Music and Artistic Reinvention on Takin’ a Walk

Summary

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Takin’ A Walk – Buzz Knight and Narada Michael Walden: Embracing Change Through Music and Artistic Reinvention

Podcast: Takin’ A Walk – Music History with Buzz Knight
Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Buzz Knight
Guest: Narada Michael Walden

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Episode Overview

Kicking off 2026 with a “Fresh Starts” theme, host Buzz Knight sits down for an immersive, soul-stirring conversation with legendary musician, producer, and songwriter Narada Michael Walden. They explore how Walden has continually reinvented himself as an artist—from jazz fusion virtuoso to pop hitmaker—and how music’s transformative, healing power shapes lives and legacies. Through captivating stories about working with icons like Aretha Franklin and reflections on his own creative journey, Walden reveals unique insights on artistic growth, spirituality, music’s magic, and the honest work behind every “overnight” success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Healing Nature of Music

• Music as Universal Language and Spiritual Force
  • Walden deeply believes in the connective, healing qualities of music, emphasizing its role as a bridge between individuals, cultures, and even the divine.
  • Quote: “Music is a key to unlock the whole universe. In fact, music is right next to God because, dig it, if God talks to us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music.” – Narada Michael Walden [05:33]
  • Music triggers powerful memories and emotions, transcending boundaries: “You don’t speak the language, you know, but the music is a higher language.” [06:20]

Spirituality, Upbringing, and Foundations of Discipline

• Walden attributes his discipline to his parents’ work ethic and the musical encouragement they provided.
• Family support was key—his parents actively enabled his early musical pursuits despite noise and logistical challenges, instilling deep dedication to craft.
  • Quote: “My dad wanted to be a drummer…if I could play along with that record, then my dad would actually get me a new drum set to go on TV and look really professional because I impressed my dad.” [11:55]
• Early influences: nursery rhymes, jazz records, live albums that “knocked him out” and set a lifelong standard for live performance energy. [08:00–10:30]

Mentors, Heroes, and the Mount Rushmore of Drummers

• Walden resists narrowing down his drumming heroes—“All of them”—honoring the spectrum of influential drummers:
  • “Mitch Mitchell brought that flavor for Hendrix, Billy Cobham brought that kick and fire behind Mahavishnu…” [13:55]
• He learned something essential from each, likening them to different fruits that contribute their unique taste (“peaches, bananas, oranges...”).

Mental Health in the Music Industry

• Walden and Knight discuss drummer Jim Gordon’s tragic story and the music industry’s historical neglect of mental health.
• Personal insights from Walden, who worked in mental health care as a youngster, highlight the system’s failures:
  • Quote: “Mental illness is a very serious thing...there was a budget to actually take people in. Of course, Reagan came along and dismantled some of that stuff. People end up on the streets.” [17:41]

Life-Changing Collaboration: Aretha Franklin

• Walden shares unforgettable stories about meeting and recording with Aretha Franklin, illustrating both her genius and their collaborative rapport.
  • First meeting, guided by Clive Davis, led to the germ of “Who’s Zoomin’ Who” out of a phone call:
    • Quote (Aretha’s storytelling): “He thinks he’s got me, but the fish jumps off the hook. What are you talking about? But that’s how she was.” [22:26]
  • Recording process: Aretha’s unique studio rituals, her power and humor—a mix of total professionalism and candid relaxation:
    • “She’d go out to the microphone...sing down the octave four times, like a man range. Then she’ll say, OK, I’m ready to cut. And now she sounds up in her range like Aretha. The whole take is like a hit record.” [23:48]
  • Their creative push-pull, learning to “flow with her” and trust the magic:
    • “I end up using what I thought was too R&B—it’s just so good, so pure. You can’t ignore it.” [27:35]
  • Memorable moments: Aretha’s fierce live energy, paying the band in cash from her bra, and the irreplaceable, affectionate bond they shared.
    • Quote: “She just gave everything, everything, man. It was like Ali and Frazier—just pow, pow, pow, pow.” [34:45]
    • “Before she passed away, she called me on the phone: ‘I just want to tell you, I love sitting on the couch laughing with you.’” [31:00]

Process and Reinvention: Albums “Euphoria” & “Still Yours for the Summer”

• Walden describes the joy and challenge of creating “Euphoria” (with Italian collaborators, infusing a European flavor) and “Still Yours for the Summer” (produced at home, inspired by dance and celebration).
  • Stories behind “Hot Fun in the Summertime” (Sly Stone tribute), “Bougie Cherry Bomb,” and the remix of “I Should Have Loved You.”
  • Europe’s enthusiastic reception of his music, and his deliberate effort to create tracks with global appeal.
• On reinvention and luck in the music industry:
  • Quote: “To make it in this industry is the hardest thing in the world. There’s no book on it, no magic. It’s just happenstance…God made a way.” [41:24]

New Projects: “Motown Salutes”

• Walden is writing and producing a major Motown tribute for Otis Williams (The Temptations), scripting a four-minute song weaving the label’s monumental history.
  • “It’s so much of a story—who you put in, who you have to leave out because you only got four minutes… The work that came out of Motown is staggering.” [43:26]
• Honors Motown’s unsung heroes—session musicians, producers, and mentors who shaped generations of music.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Music’s Divine Role:
  • “Music is right next to God because...if God talks to us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music.” – Narada Michael Walden [05:33]
• On Influences:
  • “You don’t leave nobody out...Everybody brought their own flavor, and you needed it.” [13:55]
• On Aretha:
  • “‘I’m not here to fight with you. I’m here to serve the music and love you and be kind to you.’ And then it was like, cool. Because I could see in her eyes, the genius, the all-knowing—you know, can hear everything, can sing everything, can play everything.” [24:00]
  • “No one can understand what it’s like to be in the control room with speakers hearing Aretha Franklin’s voice coming out.” [28:55]
  • “The last seven shows of her life, she said, ‘Would you come play with me?’ I said, ‘I’d be honored.’” [31:07]
• On Industry Lessons:
  • "To make it in this industry is the hardest thing in the world. There's no book on it." [41:24]
• Aretha’s Ritual:
  • “After every show, the classic thing is true. She’ll go into her bra, pull out the cash, pay you in cash, then you had to sign a little piece of paper. And you got paid in cash.” [34:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Narada on the healing power of music: [05:33]
• Early musical memories and parental support: [07:59–13:34]
• Rushmore of drumming influences: [13:55]
• Discussion of mental health in music/Jim Gordon story: [16:56]
• How “Who’s Zoomin’ Who” came about: [22:26]
• Studio and live magic with Aretha Franklin: [23:48–35:47]
• Creating “Euphoria”/European collaborations: [38:35]
• Still Yours for the Summer—origins and inspiration: [39:54]
• Reflections on making it in the music industry: [41:24]
• Whitney Houston seen as a child at a session: [42:47]
• Motown tribute details: [43:23–45:16]

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is joyous, warm, and profoundly grateful—full of laughter, heartfelt reminiscence, and respectful storytelling. Walden’s humility and spiritual outlook permeate every anecdote, and Buzz Knight’s curiosity draws out deep wisdom on both music and life. Listeners are left with inspiration about embracing change, trusting one’s creative instincts, honoring your roots, and the transcendent power of music to unite and heal.

Ultimate takeaway:
To truly reinvent oneself—musically or personally—requires openness, hard work, gratitude, and a willingness to both serve and be surprised by the muse.

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For anyone with a passion for music history, creative growth, or the inside stories of legendary artistry, this episode is an essential listen.

Transcript

[Buzz Knight]

Taking a Walk welcome to Taking a Walk. I'm Buzz Knight and we're kicking off the new year 2026 with a special theme week celebrating Fresh Starts. January is when we all hit the reset button. We reimagine possibilities, we open ourselves up to new ways of thinking, and few artists embody the spirit of reinvention quite like today's guest, Narda Michael Walton. He didn't just have one fresh start in his career, he's had several. From drumming with the Mahavishnu Orchestra to becoming one of the most sought after producers of the 80s and 90s, Narda transformed himself time and time again. He went from jazz fusion virtuoso to hit maker extraordinaire, producing chart toppers for Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin and Mariah Carey. Each pivot was a masterclass in artistic evolution. In this conversation, you're going to hear how Narada embraced change, trusted his instincts, and continually reinvented his sound and career. Whether you're looking to make your own fresh start this year or you simply want to hear from someone who's mastered the art of transformation, this episode is for you. Coming up next past episode with the incomparable Narda Michael Walden.

[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Buzz Knight]

This is such an honor. I'm here speaking on Taking a Walk with Narda Michael Walden. Hello, sir.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Hey. How are you?

[Buzz Knight]

I'm fantastic. I'm fantastic. Welcome to Taking a Walk. This is what we call the podcast now, since we're not taking a walk literally, but we are walking through music history with you. I do want to ask you, if you could take a walk with somebody, living or deceased, who would you take a walk with and where would you take that walk with them?

[Narada Michael Walden]

I don't know. For some reason, Ali came to me. Muhammad Ali came to me. And being in the woods, like mere woods, for some reason he came to me. But then came a lot. Then came Prince, then came Guru, then came Mahvishnu. All of them are coming. Then came Carl. They all wanted. Yeah, Mother Mary came. She wanted to go in the Fender woods and talk. Yes. Okay. You know, my girl who didn't ride the bus, wouldn't take the back seat in the bus was. Yeah, she wanted to go in the woods and talk.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh my God.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah, man. It's all. It's all good. They all want to come. We all want to have a party together.

[Buzz Knight]

They're all invited. Everyone is invited. Yeah. Before we dig here further, including still yours for the summer and just everything and your wonderful career though, it does hit me, we. We also produce this other podcast. It's hosted by my friend Lynn Hoffman. It's called Music Save Me. And it's about the, the healing power of music and what it does for us and how important it is from musician standpoint, certainly. So I believe I know where you're going to go with this, but I do have to ask you, knowing your spirituality and, and your core beliefs, do you think music has healing power?

[Narada Michael Walden]

Absolutely. Without question. Absolutely. More than we even recognize or realize. In fact, when I think of my childhood, it's the music that comes to me first, the songs. If I hear a song, then I can see what I. What I was doing and smell the air, the kind of car we drove, the conversations, the feelings, the excitement, the enthusiasms. Music is a. Is a key to unlock the whole universe. In fact, music is right next to God because dig it, if God talks us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music. So music is the highest form on the planet to reach each other. I can go with Jeff Beck when he was alive, from America to Japan to China to Russia, anywhere in the world. And that music communicates. Mavish. You can communicate, Carlos. Communicate anywhere in the world. That's the beauty of music. You don't speak the language, you know, but the music is a higher language. So I. I'm a. I am here in. In honor of music. To keep the music going and keep my heart young and fresh. Like a little kid excited by the music.

[Buzz Knight]

And the euphoria that you bring to your craft and to your life is so contagious. It really connects us all at a time when so many things don't connect us, but it's the one thread. Certainly not only your beautiful work with it and all your collaborations, but that in general, what music gives to us, it keeps us together.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah. And please tell your friend I want to be on the show, if you'll have me to speak about the spiritual aspects of music. And I got my name, Narada, behind him being the divine musician. When Guru gave me the name, he told me all the stories about Narada with his music, came to the earth to inspire with loving God more with divine message. So it's all, it's all beautiful.

[Buzz Knight]

So do you remember? I will. You are invited. So hereby, you are. You are hereby invited. But the first moment you recall in life being connected deeply with music, what was that?

[Narada Michael Walden]

First moments. Oh my. I loved like Frank Froggy went a court and he did lie. When I was a little, little kid, little 2 year old. Those little nursery rhymes are so cool. My dad would buy them for me and they would be just so sweet on it, on the record player, you know, mambo music. Looking at the beautiful covers of the ladies on the covers or the mambo music and hearing George sharing with Peggy Lee that album, the live album, Beauty and the. And the Beat it was called. I think those are early, early recollections. Then at my grandpa's house across the way, my mom's sisters, Vicki and Valerie, they would have Nina Simone live at Town Hall. Then I had to get out my, My My pie tin and a pillow and play along just softly to try to imitate the, the, the drummer on those records, you know. Summertime, I love you Porgy. Just that that whole album is so deep with Nina Simone live at Town hall, that, that really got me, you know. Then of course, not long after we go on our little trips to Upper Michigan in our cottage and they bring in an album by Horace Silver called Six Pieces of Silver. And it be a piece on there called Senor Blues. And they would say the drummer's only 18 named Lewis Hayes from Detroit. I said, oh, he's little, he's young. So that I have like memorized. You have to memorize all the pieces just so. That's early, early, early on all those things, man. Even, even Harry Belafonte. Take My Mother Home was a very scary piece. Very frightening. I got frightened as a kid then I remember good memories like when they we first heard on the radio Twist and Shout by the Osby Brothers on the radio, You know, all that, all that rock and roll coming. Also Little Richie on 78s, you know, good golly Miss Molly at my grandma's house. That was really electrifying as a little kid hearing that then I loved the live album of Ray Charles, what I say, Frenzy spirit, drama on tears and just so incredible that album. So I, I. And then fingertips came along and this wiped me out. All the live recordings, quite frankly, would, would knock me out the live recordings.

[Buzz Knight]

Isn't that interesting thinking about that? Because then you would not only apply your craft in studios and you continue to brilliantly, but you applied your craft in the live performance area.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah.

[Buzz Knight]

Who taught you the incredible disciplines that take you to musical journeys and beauty to this day?

[Narada Michael Walden]

My mom and dad were very disciplined. My mom was, was raised by. Her father was a great janitor, custodian in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Cleaned all the car places, insurance, buildings, clean everything. Just made a sparkle. Be up at three in the morning to get out, you know, in the morning before places were open. So she had a great discipline of helping him, you know, and seeing how hard he worked. And then my own dad helped, helped him too. And also ran a job in a paper mill and then eventually became a draftsman for Consumers Power Company. But he was like a sergeant. My dad's very serious, you know, whatever he said, we knew he meant it. So there was no bullshit in that in our family. And my dad wanted to be a drummer. He would carry in the snow his friend's drums, a guy named Bill Dowdy from the three Sounds. So I also had to like, listen to three sounds. And, you know, when I could play along with that record, then my dad would actually get me a new drum set to go on TV and look really professional because I could. I impressed my dad. I could play Bill Dowdy. So it's all in the music. It's all in the family. And in Michigan, where I'm from, I'm from Kalamazoo, you know, there's snow outside a lot. The weather's not so good to go outside and play. So you're locked inside a lot so you can play and practice and do things. And my mom never complained about drumming the noise. Only thing she ever complained about one time is downstairs, my friend Steve Whiffin working over the who's record of him. I can see for miles and miles and miles. And I wanted to get it right. And I was telling the boys how to play it right. And I went upstairs to get a glass of water. My mom said, why are you shouting at those boys downstairs? So I'm not shouting. He said, yeah, you were being strong with him. I said, I didn't mean to. I just want to make sure we get the music right. So that's the only thing she ever, ever complained to me about.

[Buzz Knight]

But other than that, she didn't care that the noise was there. And it was not noise. It was beauty to her.

[Narada Michael Walden]

In fact, as we lived in Plano, Michigan, outside Calamac, they would take me to different rehearsals. I would have on Saturday mornings with Joel Brooks, who play organ in his house. And then we'd have Joel Brooks had an uncle who owned the Ambassador Lounge, the cool lounge on the north side of Kalamazoo where all the people would go hang out and drink and whatever. And we can go in there early before the opening hat and play in there. And my parents would. Would help me do that. I wanted to be. Have a big gig on New Year's Eve at the Crazy Horse. And I go on the Crazy Horse and play. So, you know, and you see the big spinning light mirror ball, you know, and all the people. And so I was introduced to early to playing live. And my. And my parents loved it. They help me haul around my drums, which, you know, that's not easy, and haul on Oregon and even, even the Leslie.

[Buzz Knight]

No roadies with you then?

[Narada Michael Walden]

No, that was my parents and his parents. So, you know, real, real dedication. That's what I'm trying to tell you. We don't think about it, but I'm telling you that in the 60s, 50s, 60s you had to work to be in music.

[Buzz Knight]

Who's the Mount Rushmore of drummers for you?

[Narada Michael Walden]

All of them. I love peaches, bananas, oranges, strawberries, apples, grapes, grapefruits, all of them. You don't leave nobody out because they all contributed to, like the Stars Behind Me. Everybody brought their own flavor, and you needed it. Mitch Mitchell brought that flavor for Hamich that no one else could have been. Better I did at Jimmy than Mitch Mitchell. Billy Cobham brought that. That. That kick and that fire behind Mavish New that just scalded my soul to this very day when I saw him in Harbor, Connecticut. 72, whatever. It was just in the most incredible fire I've ever seen in my life. So, you know. And then, of course, as a little kid, we have an album by Buddy Rich and Max Roach going back and forth. I was, like, intrigued to hear that, you know, Art Blakey on the Sermon with Jimmy Smith playing a rock backbeat throughout the whole 22 minutes through that time. Ka Ching time. Ka ching Tang, you know, which you wouldn't think in jazz it'd be a blues medley, but that's what Aaron Lucky was playing. That was my favorite because it was just so. Just swinging strong like that. Of course, Take five comes out with Joe Morello. Oh, now that's something cool, you know. Or Cannibal Adley, Seven Miles High. Mercy, Mercy Me, Sack of Wolf, this here, all that music that was coming out, you know, Michael Bloomfield with Buddy Miles. The electric flat, so much everywhere you look. Even the Moby Grape. Cold, Cold blood with Stanley McGee, everywhere you look. Jack De Janette, First Light with Freddie Hubbard, you know, Wendy with Wes Montgomery. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding ding. All of it plays a Percy Faith. All that stuff was so beautiful. So I learned from all of it. And there is a rush, mom, if you have a rush, Mom. Or put them all up there.

[Buzz Knight]

I love that. I have to ask you about one drummer, though, in particular who was part of the Wrecking Crew and Hal Blaine. The one I'm thinking of, though, is the one that had the. The tragic ending, Jim Gordon.

[Narada Michael Walden]

I didn't know much about Jim Gordon. I knew. I'm familiar with some of the recordings, but he was taken out of the game so quickly with that accident he had and taking him to jail. Now, give him the name. Me. One of the two of the pieces that he'd be honest. I could tell you.

[Buzz Knight]

Well, writing credits on Layla, for sure.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Is that him playing drums on Layla?

[Buzz Knight]

Yep.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Okay, I got it.

[Buzz Knight]

And also, though, Good Vibrations Beach Boys.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Oh, that's him, too. Okay. I didn't know that. I thought that was Hal.

[Buzz Knight]

I think Hal was associated with it as well, but he was. That whole wrecking crew was. The unknown group of, you know, experts there that were kind of. No one knew them, but they were all producing this incredible work. But the tragedy of Jim Gordon was how the music industry turned its back on mental illness. That's the tragedy.

[Narada Michael Walden]

I worked in a hospital of mental illness, and I saw how it goes down. You know, shock treatments and, you know, take the people and put them in the cages, you know, sometimes, you know, strap them down. And my job as an orderly to go in and unstrap them, wash them, bathe them, clean them, shave them, put on their clothing, you know, and you have to restrain them again so they don't hurt themselves. Mental illness is a very serious thing. Also. I would take care of the kids who would burn the house down. Runaways be my job when I have to go out of high school, from freshman to ninth grade. Freshman. Take care of those kids. Take them for a walk or keep them in the same room. Play them. Oh, oh, Happy Day by Edwin. You know, Edwin. Happy day, Edwin.

[Buzz Knight]

Star.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Not Star. No, no, the. The. The choir guy.

[Buzz Knight]

Edwin Hawkins.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Edwin Hawkins.

[Buzz Knight]

Sorry. Yes.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Or I'm leaving on a jet plane by.

[Buzz Knight]

Yeah. Peter, Paul, Mary.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah, you know, things are kind of calm down, you know, But I would see the mental illness firsthand. And back then, there was a budget to actually take people in. Of course, Reagan came along and they kind of like dismantled some of that stuff. People end up on the streets. So you're saying Jim Gordon, a mentally ill problem. God knows, maybe there wasn't anything to catch him. There was no net to catch him. You know, and that's happening everywhere now, even full force. Anywhere you go, you're seeing holes on the street. Right down the street from where I'm living here. My studio, I'll have to hang it out. There's no place for them to go. There's no net. Other countries have a net. We don't. We don't believe in that over here.

[Buzz Knight]

Island.

[Narada Michael Walden]

And it's going to get worse because the rich get rich and the poor get poor. So the net, they, you know, they don't catch you. I'm so sorry about it. It's my. It's my. It hurts me.

[Buzz Knight]

Well, and it goes back to the thread at the beginning of the interview, just on the fact of what music means and how it brings, you know, folks together and how it has, you know healing processes as well.

[Narada Michael Walden]

We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.

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[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Buzz Knight]

The.

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[Narada Michael Walden]

Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.

[Buzz Knight]

Talk about your first time running into and then ultimately making great magic with Aretha Franklin.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Aretha Franklin. Daunting. Clyde Davis opened that door for me and he just said, give her, give her a phone call. Like that, Very understated. And I called her and the conversation was just magical. I'm so glad I was prepared for the phone call with my, my pen and my paper to take little notes and things because she speaks in a way that I couldn't ever understand prior going into the conversation. That, that, that's how she would talk. But she speaks in a very high faluting, has her own language, her own way describing things that it's just, it's just her. So, for example, I'd be on the phone, I say, well, what do you do? What do you do to have fun? And she said, oh, I might go out to a nightclub. In the nightclub, I see a guy in the corner. He look good, I look good. He was looking at each other. We both look good. Kind of like who's zooming who. Yeah. But then, you know, he's looking at me, I'm looking at him. Oh, you think he got me? But then the fish jumps off the hook. He thinks he's got me, but the fish jumps off the hook. What are you talking about? But that's how she was. Now get off the phone. I tell press the glass. This is what she said. We gotta make a hit song out of this. And we did this out of a phone call, just her being her. So when you talk about her that had that cut they had, that comes to my mind. Then when I went with the tape from San Francisco to Detroit to go meet her, that's a whole other history. Her walking in the room with her fur coat and her cigarette. She's still smoking and looking in my eyes. I look in her eyes. I let her know right away, I'm here to be your friend and serve the music and love you and be kind to you. I'm not here to fight with you. And then it was like, cool, because I could see in her eyes, the genius, the all knowing, you know, can hear everything, can sing everything, can play everything, piano, everything. Just looking at you. The all knowingness of God. She is. She's walking deity of God, the highest poem. So how about that God know. I'm not here to fight. I'm here to make music. And then, sure enough, with Dave Frazier, hit the play button, let the music come on. I saw that whole thing, like, just go. And she was like, that sounds so good, you know? You know, and then she'd go, I'm go out to the microphone, and she would sing down the octave four times straight through the whole song, down the octave, like a man range. And she'll say, okay, I'm ready to cut. I say, okay. And now she sounds up in her range like Aretha. And the whole take is like a hit record. In fact, to her, it is almost done. I'll sing it one more time for you, you know, because you have a choice. She sing a second time, like, done, okay. But then I'm so smart, because I am smart. I'm a porpoise and I'm like, flipper. They called him Flipper. Flipper. I said, you know what? Because now you're so high on the ending, doing all these riffs and stuff. Do you. One or two more takes, adjust that. So I got all that in the bag. She said, okay. So I let her get happy, whatever the riffs are, all those ideas just flowing. Because I realized with people like that, you can't come back to it. You got to get it right then. Then go back to the first verse and get studious. Because that first verse is critical for the R B singer. If it's too much R B on the first verse, you can lose a lot of your pop audience. I know that. So now I'm a little concerned that the first person is still too RB sounding. Perhaps too much flippancy going on. Maybe we need to have a little more subtle, or people in their cars and their office can sing it back more easily on the first opening. We can get more progressive as we go along, but let's start out a little simpler. So she would say to me. Then she got kind to me. She knew I was. She knew I'm a good person. She looked at me, you know, I'm gonna do for you. I said, what? I'll give you one more take. It's called the Straight Reading. I go. The Straight Reading. What is that? I go in, I sing it one more time for you, a little closer to the melody. That gives you one more take, okay? And she goes back in, and she'll sing it to her. A little closer than melody to me, not that much different, but a little bit. So inevitably, when I come back home to my studio in San Francisco here. And comp. Word comp means put the words, put the. The best lyrics together, the best performances together. I end up using what I thought was two R&B. It's just so good. It's just so pure that you can't. You can't ignore it. You can't act like you're going to be simple because you want to be simple. No, it's just too good. So I end up using it. So I've learned so much from her just to kind of flow with her, make sure the chorus is a hit. I'd always go over there with the choruses stacked up backgrounds, so I knew that would be powerful. No matter what she would do, flipping around or carrying on, the chorus be so powerful that I get one take where she'd sing with the chorus to make sure I had it. And then once we knew each other, how we worked, we got her like peanut butter and jelly. And then she wanted. What you want to eat. You want. You want a cheeseburger? You want some fried chicken? Nor would you going down there getting nada. Nada. Going down to get nada some fried chicken and some cheeseburger. Fear beyond, man. Then she opened up her pants. Pow. Let her. Let her belly come out and go and sing one more thing for you or whatever it might be. Power unknown. No one can understand what it's like to be in the control room with speakers hearing Aretha Franklin's voice coming out. Because I make things loud anyway, but powerful, clear, clean. Every note is what she wants it to be. She doesn't sing anything unless she hears it that way. For example, one time I said, this might be a little bit much here. She goes, well. She goes, well, play it to me. She's like. I said, well, then play it to me. And the ash almost be burning down, just hanging on the cigarette. Listen to the whole thing, loving every damn thing about it. And I said, well, maybe this area right here, you know, could be a little simpler. She goes, well, that's just the way I hear it. Okay, I get it. I get it, man. I get it. So she opened my eyes. And I opened her eyes, too. We both got along great. We made our first platinum with George Michael. I knew you were waiting. Bam. I knew you were waiting for me. First big in the morning pop record, million seller, Freeway. I love who's who knew all that stuff. We did. I'm so proud of her and proud of my history with her. When I went to her funeral, she's the people's champion. All around the blocks in Detroit, just far as you could ever see. All the people just lined up to come and look at her. The night before the big funeral, you know. And they had this song playing out from that church called Mary, don't you weep. With her singing, just perfect. You realize how damn genius she is? Was. Is Mary, don't you weep. As these people are all lined up. Her people, the disenfranchised of the world, the poor people. People ain't got nothing but just loved her. And it'd be a little symbolized, a little pink Cadillac on the front, which I was very proud to see. But Freeway, love it sat right there. I never. I never actually went to church to look at her. It was too pad. I couldn't even get in there. Even the day I went to the funeral, I'm playing in the band, you know, for the music. And I wanted to go take a peek, a peek at her before they closed the coffin. Ralph Armstrong and I went around for the band stand all the way around the church. We get in before they closed the cap. I said, no, respect the family. It's closed off now. You're five minutes too late. But this is nada. You're part of the family. Respect the family. It's closed off now. So it wasn't there for me to see her like that. But we had the best of times. Before she passed away, she called me on the phone. I just want to tell you, I love sitting on the couch laughing with you. We had the best of times. See, that's the best it gets. I mean, she was saying. She was saying, and don't ever lose your million dollar smile, okay?

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, man.

[Narada Michael Walden]

See what I mean? You can't beat that, man.

[Buzz Knight]

That's priceless.

[Narada Michael Walden]

You can't beat that stuff.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, man.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Oh, I got one more thing. I never played live with her back then. Toward the end of her life, the last seven shows of her life, she said, would you come play with me? I said, I'd be honored. And I made seven shows with her, you know, New Jersey, at the JPAC center, whatever. It's called Boston was incredible. Oh, my God. New York at that Radio City Music hall, that Clive Davis event we did. And the last show was the Elton John AIDS concert at St. John Devine. And I mean, it was packed with Sting, Billy Joel, Clyde Davis, anybody with anybody in New York was there. Now. This would be her last show and she came out kind of real thin now. And people are kind of like, whoa, you know. But it didn't matter, man. She sang her ass off. And that band played its ass on Freeway In Love with only was like 15 minutes long. She wanted us to rock it, man. And she leave the stage and come back and still rock it. So that's how she was. And I remember at one point she did her tribute to Nessa Dorma live. And I put the symbols with the malice. And I could see over there Sting and there's Sting all crying just to hear her sing. That's in Durma. It was so beautiful. I have one more memory I'm going to share with you because it's on my brain.

[Buzz Knight]

Sure.

[Narada Michael Walden]

The first time I played live where there would be. What do you call those? An affair where they're like a private function, not for just the public, for a private affair.

[Buzz Knight]

Yeah.

[Narada Michael Walden]

In New York. Yep.

[Buzz Knight]

Corporate or whatever.

[Narada Michael Walden]

A great one though. I mean, like a high polluting one. And that was the first time I played live with her. And I went up on a jam called Chain of Fools. She had another drummer from the Detroit, I'm forgetting her name, Galene. Galene. The beautiful girl and woman played really great. So she'd be with me there and then it'd be my turn. And I came out on Chain of Fools. Chain of Fools got so rocking with Ralph Armstrong and I that after she sang the song, she said, keep on going. We kept going. Rock Chain of Fools, right? She goes and sits down like. Like a prize fight, like in the corner, like sitting down in the chair. Then she says, tells the guys, bring me some towels. They wrap her throat with towels, you know, like. Like a prize fighter. All wrapped up and wrecked. What look like wet towels. We're over rocking, you know, Chain of Fools, you know what I'm saying? It's really into it. And she's sitting there looking at me, you know, as I'm grooving. At one point she stood up, threw off them towels, went back that mic and started rocking hardcore. That's why people love her. She just gave everything, everything, man. It was like Ollie and Frazier just pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. And then I Started realizing when you go to Boston, before she even come out, the audience like, aretha, you're here. Oh, it'd be like a frenzy in the audience before she even walk on the stage. And another thing I learned, you could never talk to before, before the show. I mean, she knows you're there, but she'd be dead quiet, not mentioning a word to anybody, saving her voice for a show. And also could be back there mist to make it misty for her. But never. You can never talk to her. You can never talk to her. And she come out and just kill. And she warned you to kill. And we did. Then after every show, the classic thing is true. She'll go into her bra, pull out the cash, pay you in cash. Then you had to sign a little piece of paper and you got paid in cash, you know, so. All right. But then one time I got embarrassed because I knew I was getting paid more than other cast in the band. So her. Her girlfriend, part of the family, said, go and count your money now. I think it's gay. Not. Galen said, earlene, Earlene, go and count your money now. But I felt embarrassed accounting in front of everyone on the band. Looked at me like this. Yeah, count your money now. Let's see how much I turn my back, you know, counting. Okay, thank you. It's all here. Thank you. But I don't want to see how much it was. He make. Make the band upset. And then re. The said to me, you gonna join me in New Orleans for the Jazz Fest? I said, of course. I'll be there for you. But she never made the Jazz Fest. She never made the Jazz Fest. She kind of hold her little side. I knew she was in pain, you know.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, thank you.

[Narada Michael Walden]

We had a close relationship.

[Buzz Knight]

You sure did.

[Narada Michael Walden]

As close as it gets, I think.

[Buzz Knight]

You know, I'm still trying to get my arms around. I love the visual when you said in the studio how she just kind of, you know, know, un. Unbutton things there and let things hang and said, let me let it rip, baby.

[Narada Michael Walden]

That's what. How it was. I love it when she wanted to really go for it. Like, you know, she under. Under her pants. Oh, yes. And. And one more thing you should know. This is classic on the number one record. You know, I. In those days was tape. So I only had like one real tape for George, 10 tracks. Another. I mean, two reels. One with a track with the. The band and then another reel. The Track could be 24. 10 for George, 10 for Reef, and 4 for. They can mess around so the first day, Aretha would come in and do all our parts. Not the olive ad lib stuff, just the verse and the river was I. The choruses and the, you know, verse, the basic stuff. Then George come the next day, really nervous to lay down his stuff. He lay down his verses, his choruses, and I wouldn't do too much outro stuff. I want to save a third day for them to come together for the ending. But even the verses and choruses, George would say to me, you know What? After doing 10 tracks here, go back over my first four tracks. I'm feeling stronger. And I would say, no, George, I ain't doing that. Those first four tracks are the record. You think you're getting better, but in fact, it's not. You're going down. The first four tracks were your strongest, and I'm saving those tracks. And he looked at me like, who the hell do you think you are? I'm George Michael. I know you're George Michael. But he wasn't used to having a producer. I wasn't used to working with him. But I had to stand up strong because I knew what I knew. And I said, george, if you just go home, I'll stay up all night, cop together the best parts to show you when you come tomorrow, if you got any problem, we could do it tomorrow. But right now, I'm stopping. I can't go any further because these are the best tracks. So he came next day. I was able to knock him out with how. How good it sounded. Then we could focus on the ending. And on the ending, I got two mics for Aretha and for him. I had just enough to go over the ending four different times. First couple times, Aretha is being really nice to him, you know, just being kind of mild. Third and fourth time, hell, now she's. Now she's hot. She let it rip. Are you listening to the ending? I'm about to hear just an incredible thing. And stunned George, you're like a stunned. It's so incredible. It's on the record. So I love that moment to see George get stunned by her. Yeah. Do the knockout blow on him. She didn't want to scare him, but, hell, she couldn't help it. She's Aretha.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, man.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah.

[Buzz Knight]

I have two more things I want to talk to you about. One is, I want to talk about Euphoria and still yours for the summer. Oh, there it is. The hearts are coming up. Tell me how much enjoyment you had creating that work.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Which one? Euphoria. Yeah, that was great. That was with our partner in Italy named Lino Nicolosi and his family, where I write my songs over here, cut them, do what I'm going to do, sing them, and some over there for his touch to add into it his guitar work, his sister, badass bass player, his brother, badass keyboard player. Kind of just dress it up from the European standpoint, I want to make sure I offer something to the European people of my work because they love me over there. Ever since I had. I should love James, Nana Marai, Divine Emotion. Europe comes to life with my music. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme is like number one in Sweden. So I thought, let's have some fun with the European touch. And that's what he brought. That was a lot of fun for me to hear. Back and forth, the culmination of my. My vibe, his vibe coming together. And on the song for Sting, I had that level. Sting, Carlos, Stevie, the More I Love My Life. And I said, let me just make this into the little European touch on it. So he did that too. And that was lovely. Called the More I Love My Life. So that was a lot of fun to me. A lot of hard work because it's. You're working two cartlets, you know, when I'm. When I'm sleeping, he's awake and vice versa, you know, I wake up at six in the morning, whatever. And there he'd be like omnibus notes and notes and notes. So that was a lot, but it was. It was great music. Now this new album, mine, I made it right here in my. In my house. So.

[Buzz Knight]

Still yours for the summer?

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah, it's. In a way, it's easier for me because I can just do it, you know.

[Buzz Knight]

And you had the. The great version of Hot Fun in the Summertime.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah. I felt like an honor to Sly. I didn't realize he was going to die, but something in my spirit said, honor Sly and make it a dance version. Like, just change it up. So I took Hop on and made it a dance, kind of disco and fun and what you wouldn't expect. And when I did it, Jeff McCluskey out of Chicago, the big radio guru from Clyde Davis's camp.

[Buzz Knight]

I know Jeff. Yeah.

[Narada Michael Walden]

And his team. They said this should be our first single because it's something old, something new. I said, okay, put it up. So they did, but then I kept. Then I came on another song called Bougie Cherry Bomb for the summertime color. Kind of funky, bikini, sexy type song. Having fun in the, you know, on the beaches and all that. And then Our third single, we decided to make Warner Chapel said, do something from your catalog, you know, because you got this great catalog. Take one of those songs and redo it. I said, well, let's take I Should have Loved you. And I remember that Lino had done a remix of I Should have Loved you. So I took Leo remix, make sure I had did my. Did new vocals, new stuff on it, you know. And that became our third single. And now the album is just freshly out and I'm very proud of the song. Still goes the Summer features Neil Sean from junior Great solo from him. Got another testimony from Mavish how much I love him, how much he helped me, discovering me, bringing me, opening the door. Because I got to tell you, Buzz Knight to making this industry is the hardest thing in the world. There's no book on it. There's no book on it. There's no magic. It's just happenstance. I saw so many talented, talented people in Midwest, you know, touring. I think they're so great gifted, but maybe they never make it. So I was just always praying how I was gonna with this Mavishtu, you know, that actually took me in and mainly. Cause I think I was ready to pray and meditate with the guru and just make myself what he needed me to be. And it was. It worked out. And God blessed me because from there I toured movie Schneider, met Jeff Beck and then Weather Report and you know, it all kind of by Tommy Boland. I actually joined Tommy Boland's band over Weather Report because I wanted to do more rock and roll at that time. So all those doors just started opening for me, you know, Garden Love Light. I was able to make my own solo albums with Atlantic. You know, it's easy, but. But God made a way. So I'm very thankful in my life that I've been able to kind of cross re cross, you know, meet Tommy Dowd, you know, who says you got to bring a Sissy Houston singing on the Guard Lowlight. Okay, I know Sissy, but he did. So here comes Sissy Houston with her whole group. And here's a Little Whitney Houston, 11 years old, in the corner watching the session. And they sound incredible.

[Buzz Knight]

Wow.

[Narada Michael Walden]

I met Whitney when she was 11. That's because of Tommy Dowd.

[Buzz Knight]

Incredible.

[Narada Michael Walden]

I got another piece for Jeff Beck. Jeff flew in from London to become the Saint, the Rascal Carlos come playing on First Love on my first album. Sounds so blessed. Mike Gibbs, who arranged the strings for Apocalypse from, obviously arranged the strings for my album Garden Love Light. So I'm just I'm really, really grateful that so many nice things have been in. Able to come across my path.

[Buzz Knight]

Can you share the new project that you're. That you're working on?

[Narada Michael Walden]

Which one? You mean the one today?

[Buzz Knight]

Yeah, today.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Today we're on a very heavy project. Heavy in the sense that it's so mind blow, mind boggling. We're doing a tribute to Motown. It's called the Motown Salutes. A song that Otis Williams from the Temptations wants me to write. And we're running it together to honor all the greatness of Motown. So I cut the track twice because I wanted to make it. First time I did it was more like kind of easygoing, like a what's going on kind of cool. But then we. We want to amp it up. We. Man, we have tracked it twice now, making it more. More. More dynamic. So. And then I had. I had to look at changing my lyric to make that more dynamic too. But it's so much of a story. Who you. Who you. Who you put in, who you have to leave out because you only got four minutes, you know. But it's incredible. The. The word that came out of Motown is staggering. You know, James Jameson, Benny Benjamin. How they found a little CD wonder, Ronald White for the Miracles. How Smokey wrote My Guy and My Girl produced them. Of course, all he hits for the. For the. For the Miracles became the vice president of the company. How the Temptations came on, that came on the scene and became the biggest act over there. You know, Four Tops. Diana Ross was. Was a receptionist. They came down to Ross became the Supremes. Martha Reeves told me she had the hottest records, you know, Heat Wave and Quicksand and Dancing Juice. Because you paid him more money. That's why my records had more heat on. Damn. It's true. Those. Those records she put out with had fire. It's just so much in there. Yeah.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, my God, how exciting. And bless the great Mickey Stevenson.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Right, right. But his name is not mentioned, but exactly. Yeah.

[Buzz Knight]

Well, he was always the man behind the scenes, right?

[Narada Michael Walden]

Yeah. The Andantes, all the backing singers, they're not really mentioned, but they were there. Kim Wesson, who I loved, you know, Take Me youe Arms, Rock Me, Rock Me A Little While. That's not mentioned. This is more of the main thing that we all know.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, man.

[Narada Michael Walden]

And Barry Gordy.

[Buzz Knight]

Yeah.

[Narada Michael Walden]

And his team. How hard they worked to take all these kids from the ghettos. They had nothing. And polish them up, teach them how to eat, how to dress, how to dance, how to meet the King and the Queen and have hidden records and they did.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh man, I can't thank you enough. I can't thank you enough for being on Taking a Walk Narrative Michael Bald and for all you give us while you continue to give us the joy, you give us the energy, you give us the positive vibes and the love. Oh man, thank you so much.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Thank you. You too.

[Buzz Knight]

This was an honor.

[Narada Michael Walden]

You want to do anything else? You're all done.

[Buzz Knight]

I, I you know what? Part two will be coming around. I love it. I love, I'm so grateful.

[Narada Michael Walden]

About me man, you are the best.

[Buzz Knight]

Thank you so much.

[Narada Michael Walden]

Thank you brother. Love you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on.

[Buzz Knight]

Dudes with Gronk and Jewels.

[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Buzz Knight]

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[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Narada Michael Walden]

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[Narada Michael Walden]

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