← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Celebrating the 40th Anniversary of "Stop Making Sense" with Jerry Harrison
00:21:40
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- [00:01]
Jerry Harrison
Taking a Walk. You need to have 250,000 followers before we even think about listening to your music.
- [00:09]
Buzz Knight
I'm Buzz Knight and welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast. We love a good conversation and today we have a rare privilege a true musical trailblazer, Jerry Harrison. You know him as the creative force who helped drive talking heads into uncharted territory. And later he sharpened his producer's edge on landmark album for bands like Live and the verb pipe. Jerry's career is a long road of innovation, from his Harvard art School days to shaping anthems that still pulse through speakers everywhere. So join us as we step into the mind of an artist who has never stopped evolving. Jerry Harrison will take a break and be right back on Taking a Walk.
- [00:57]
Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [01:02]
Buzz Knight
This episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA Member, FDIC, subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [01:56]
Podcast Announcer
Lexus believes in the importance of standards One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexus, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings. Exhilaration, joy. That sense your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer.
- [02:32]
Johnson Family Member
Please welcome aboard the Johnson family.
- [02:35]
Disney Cruise Narrator
The whole fam's here for the Disney cruise. So you know we came to play and listen. The adults are gonna have a ball. First we're chilling in the infinity pool, on to massages at Sense's spa, then gliding into Star Wars Hyperspace Lounge for a toast. We're even gonna kick back with Mickey on Disney's private island. That's how we get down. Cause Disney Cruise Line is where we came to play.
- [03:02]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough. And cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief Tablets or Liquid Gels, Halls, Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night, so you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [03:32]
Johnson Family Member
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- [04:34]
Buzz Knight
Taking a Walk Boy, this is a real thrill having Jerry Harrison on the Taking a Walk podcast. Hello, Jerry, Glad to be here. So we're going to talk about this great 40th anniversary celebration of Stop Making Sense, which is so outstanding. And what a movie movie. But first, since we call this, this little podcast Taking a Walk Jerry, is there somebody, living or dead, you wish you could take a walk with? And where might you walk with them?
- [05:06]
Jerry Harrison
Well, it'd be hard not to say. You wouldn't want to take a walk with Robert Johnson. You probably would go down to the crossroads. Although if the rumors are true, maybe that's a risky, risky business. But, well, you know, Mozart and Beethoven and anything so off limits, I guess, seems the most I would have Having seen Jimi Hendrix a few times, I certainly would have loved to have met him or to have been able to play a show with him. My engineer, E.T. thorngren, had a band called Bulldog, and he was they were the first horn band before the Electric Flag and before the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. And Blood, Sweat and Tears added horns and Jimi Hendrix came to jam with them at Steve Paul's scene in New York, which I always thought that was a pretty cool claim to fame. It's like, yeah, Jimmy came to jam with our band. I love that.
- [06:17]
Buzz Knight
That is pretty outstanding. Now, have you gone through writer's block yourself and do walks help break out of a writer's block if you have gone through those?
- [06:31]
Jerry Harrison
Well, I'm a big believer in walks. I live in an area where the hiking is really great. I live across the street from Muir Woods. And so one of the reasons I moved here, actually, was I figured I would start doing that. So, yeah, I. I think that walks are very. Sally, you know, just good for you in so many ways. There's a. A study that somehow walking has a unique ability of sort of staving off dementia. That although all forms of exercise, of course, are good for you for this because of oxygen and, you know, using of your muscles. But I think there's something about walking, and I would. My theory is that just when we stand up, we're actually just always correcting ourselves from falling over. And that this is a really complicated task for the. Because we're. Because we stand on two legs, not four. We have an enormous amount of sensors in our feet that are feeding the brain as well as the proprioceptive receptors, the sense of balance in your ears, all. All combining to just keep you upright. So if you go on a walk, especially on uneven surfaces, you're really, really activating that whole network. And I think that that innervates a great deal of the brain. And I think that in whatever way it is, that that perhaps keeps the brain more alive, more healthier, and that it affects all the other parts of brain activity that are nearby.
- [08:14]
Buzz Knight
Thinking of the 40th anniversary and reflecting on stop making sense. When you go back in time and you think, first of all, of the choice of the theater that ultimately became, you know, the final destination. What was that whole process creatively like and collaboration wise, like with the band members, obviously, and the great Jonathan Demme?
- [08:43]
Jerry Harrison
Well, it was a remarkable experience because we filmed it in the end of 1983. We then went off and did some festivals in Australia and New Zealand and then came back. By that point, they had set up the editing system using this unique. For the time period, multi camera editing system using Sony Betamaxes that Hal Ashby had invented. That was out. I think it was in Malibu, but it could have been someplace between Malibu and Santa Monica. And so it allowed Lisa Day and then Jonathan to have every shot, every camera simultaneously up the Steinberg editing tables, I think, had a maximum of four. And we had more cameras at different Times as well as they were wearing out film. And so this was a way that there had been a transfer. You would never do your final edit that way, but you could pick shots and go like, oh, that looks good, or this is good, and stuff like that. David and I were the only ones who stayed in LA for the mix of the music, as well as watching them do the edit. And we'd kind of stop by, I'm not sure if it was daily or every other day or something like that, and just kind of check on the process. And Jonathan and Lisa would ask questions like, do you remember something great that happens here? Or look at this great shot of Alex. Or, Tina looks so cute. Or I love the way. I remember one suggestion I made that there was a place where we were losing some kind of sink or something and an adjustment had to be made. And I remember suggesting that we cut to Tina looking at Chris. So I think it was a drum sink, because those are particularly the ones that you would notice that ellipse. And I said, we'll cut away to Tina because she's always looking at Chris, and then you can come back with the adjustment and that. And that did work. I'm sure that, you know, David is filled with suggestions and stories, things he made, but it was a very friendly and positive atmosphere. And having been on projects, albums, movies that go on for a year, you never can work continuously for a year without getting a certain burnout at a certain point. And a break is required just to recharge your batteries. And usually when you come back from the break, you feel refreshened, but you also feel like, okay, now I need to get up to speed again. And this. This project, we went straight from filming it, frankly, all the way to playing it at the Florence Film Festival without a break. And we just went push straight on through. And we could see the end point. And it was close enough that we didn't feel like we needed that. And that was really special because I think, particularly in the world of film, that it's just such a long process that you have to. You know, sometimes there's the things like, well, we have to wait for it to be developed, and that's going to take. For all of these reels that'll take this amount of time, or the mixer is not ready, so we have to wait. But this one just. Just kept on going. And we kind of made this early deadline of the Florence Film Festival in the spring, and that was very exciting. We also mixed it twice. We had been informed that there was someone who had experience mixing music as well as films, who we hired. And then David and I hated it. And we basically got rid of him and did it again much being much, much more involved ourselves. And this was back in the day where we had transferred this to digital. Sony 24 tracks had just. Digital 24 tracks had just come out because we knew in the process of filmmaking there's a lot of copying that goes on and we didn't want to lose quality. So once it was in digital we could do digital transfers and it would be the same. You have to put up with the harshness of the converters of the beginning of 24 tracks. But we were able to compensate for that. And. But we had mag reels, which is sprocketed audio that is sunk to the picture by what sprocket hole you put it in. Not by SMPTE or more modern methods. And you know, so guys in white coats hooking up all these different things and then these reels. And a guy from Houston who had bought two of these, two of the first machines to be in the country named John Moran. And all of us at what was called at that point Warner Hollywood. It had been actually built by Mike Todd, Elizabeth Taylor's husband, the guy who did around the world in 80 days, big time movie producer. And then it became, eventually it became, it's called the lot. And when we did the restoration, we actually were back there again, not in exactly the same room, but it would. Had come full circle. I mean we'd done most of the mixing at a studio called Henzi Sound. But we did final touches there where we could see it, where the film is 40ft away from you and the speakers are 35ft away from you. And there's a little, there's things a little bit different than when you're in a smaller room.
- [14:03]
Buzz Knight
I remember seeing it for the first time and it, you know, we had never seen anything like that in terms of a concert presentation like that. The only maybe other reference point, at least I personally had it with a concert film probably was the Last Waltz, I guess. What was your other perspective on concert films? Any that you sort of thought of when being in the middle of this that were, you know, favorite concert films or were there none?
- [14:36]
Jerry Harrison
Well, I think that it was more things we took away from seeing concert films that we didn't want, which is we didn't want conversations. I kept remembering there's a film called a film about Jimi Hendrix where there's other. There's other takes of songs that are not in Monterey Pop from his performance at Monterey Pop. And he's right in the middle of something really exciting. And they cut away to talk to two guys he went to high school with. And what Jimmy was like in high school, it's like what I wanted to see the rest of that song. So he said, like, we just want it to be just the music. I was also very much wanted to somehow enter the sort of special realm that the Rocky Horror Picture show held, which was something that you could watch over and over again. And we succeeded in that. Stop making sense after its first theatrical run. Then became a staple of, you know, a later in the evening film shown at a local cinema where people basically thought of it as a concert and dance, sang along, watched favorite parts. But very often, and this has happened with the RE releases too, depending on where it's being shown, you show it in an IMAX theater where everything is so much larger than you've ever seen it. You're kind of glued to looking at it. But you go to a lot of these other, smaller theaters, they sometimes don't do the surround sound. They set it up with a paper as if it's a concert and people dance. And that means, you know, your backs to the. To the screen some of the time. And, you know, that's just fine.
- [16:11]
Buzz Knight
So you were really closely associated here with this newly restored work. And it sort of goes into this fascination that you've always had with the beautiful dynamics of sound quality. When was that fascination of sound quality for you first fed in your. In your life?
- [16:37]
Jerry Harrison
Well, I think that I. When I went off to college, I. I was. Thought I might be a scientist. And then I got involved and thought for a while I was going to be an. Well, a visual artist and maybe a filmmaker or an architect. I wasn't afraid of technology. And I think that all of us learned a lot being in the studio. Particularly, you know, working with Tony was very interesting. But Tony was the sort of engineer par excellence. It was like he twisted the knobs, didn't have much interaction with the music. He had a guy named Lance Quinn who worked on the first album. But Tony was sitting there reading airplane magazines because he had an airplane half the time. And we just got frustrated when things got slower. Slow. Lance. Lance, go do that, will you? You know, it would take me too long to figure it out. Let them finish it. So. But when we started working with Eno Eno, you know, really introduced the idea that the studio is an extension of your instrument. And that the whole studio is, you might say, Part and parcel of the. Of a chain of events that starts with what you're playing in the room, but goes into the control room and an effect can be put on it. And then you record that to tape. You know, it took a great deal of trust with us to work with Brian to kind of come in and have him adulterated what you had played in the studio and be okay with it. I know that Devo didn't like that very much and I think other bands. So, you know, as creative as Brian was, it wasn't like nowadays with Pro Tools or these other digital audio workstations where you can record both. You could record, you know, every. Any aspect in the chain and have them all simultaneously.
- [18:24]
Buzz Knight
So it's an amazing run here. Not only of the. The 40th anniversary celebration has stopped making sense, but there's all sorts of milestone things going on regarding Talking Heads Milestones, the new Psycho Killer video reissue of more Songs About Buildings and food. Also, your work with the live performances of Remain In Light with Adrian. Talk about and reflect on the legacy of the band and how going through all these moments kind of puts a different spotlight on it for you.
- [19:02]
Jerry Harrison
Well, I mean, it was not predictable to us, but we seem to have created a music that doesn't seem to. It's pretty ageless. It doesn't go out of fashion exactly. Is very sort of stands by itself and therefore works really well in different time periods. I do think that. And this is something that David Byrne noticed, I think that if you look back 10 years ago or 15 years ago, we would be pigeonholed into music of the 80s or music of the 70s, and there would be radio shows, there's serious channels based upon what decade something happened in, or a movement, new wave or punk or something like that. So there were labels put on us. Nowadays, people listen to playlists and there are. People are well known. There are people who create interesting playlists and they, you know, a lot of times they have a theme, you know, dance music or, you know, fun to listen to or easy listening to or great driving music or, you know, whatever they want. What. Whatever description they put on it. Yacht rock. Yeah, yacht rock, exactly. But. But we now will be introduced into a playlist with far more contemporary artists than we were back 15 years ago. And so I think that actually our audience started to get younger and we, a new audience, started to sort of appreciate us. Some of it, of course, is children of people who grew up loving us and introduced their kids to us in the same way that, you know, lots of people introduced their children to the Beatles or the Stones or other music that sort of has really stood the test of time. And we were one of the bands that luckily has done that.
- [20:52]
Buzz Knight
When you reflect on the current times where a sense of independence for musicians is a necessity these days, what advice would you give to someone seeking to find that independence as an artist of any type of.
- [21:09]
Jerry Harrison
Well, the unfortunate advice I'd give is you have to be very good at social media or someone who works with you does, because it appears to be the key to unlocking an audience, the key to getting any outside force. A record company, but it could be a publisher or any other of these institutions that have traditionally been there to help develop a person's career. It always helps if you have a great live show and people will sometimes build their audience through local markets getting bigger and bigger. I mean, the people that are famous for this are Big Head Todd, who I produced, Dave Matthews, who I almost produced. But there was a band called the Pat McGee band that I produced from Virginia that started by just being really good. And they were the band in a certain area that people would hire and that people would want to go see on New Year's Eve. And you know, and they, they made a living doing that. Big Head Todd did a very interesting thing. I did their third record with Resignation Superman on it and also Boom boom Boom, their cover of it that I got John Lee Hooker to be in it. And I actually got asked his manager, who like myself is from Milwaukee, if he would be in a video. And they said, well yes, you'd have to pay him. But he would. And had we done that video, he died about a month later. It would have been non stop play and that would have been a huge album for them. But after that record or maybe another one, their contract with Giant Records was up and they decided that they would become a regional band. Fire all the other people that worked with them that I don't know if they had an agent or if they did it themselves. And they kept 80 to 90% of the money they made. And if there was a song or something like that that looked like it could be a national hit and someone, they could do a one off deal with it. And of course then a little later we moved into the itunes world where singles, we went Back to the 50s model of singles albums. So they were really quite prescient in, in a way saying we're okay, that we can sell out Red Rocks three days and we can play all over, you know, the, the, the west and we're very, we're popular in California. We do a swing through California every year and every two years we do an east coast swing. And they make a really handsome living doing it that way. So I would, so I'd say that, like, be independent. Think about how you can do it. Look to your own strengths. If, if live shows are your strengths, really, really work on that and hire someone else to, to try and entice people with all of the various formats with social media. I was championing a very young guitar player named Matt Jaffe, who's from Mill valley. He was 16 when I started working with him, and he wrote these kind of sophisticated songs. And I had done a number of records for Daniel Glass, who has Glass Note Records but used to work at Artemis Records. He said, we're now in the business of getting people from second to home. We're not in the business of getting you to first base or second. So his advice to Matt, and this is, you know, 10, 15 years ago, is you need to have 250,000 followers before we even think about listening to your music. Well, it's even further in that direction. So that's my advice.
- [24:40]
Buzz Knight
Incredible. Jerry Harrison, so grateful to have you on Taking a Walk Folks should go to jerryharrison.com to find out where to find you with this great celebration of Stop Making Sense. Thank you, Jerry, for everything.
- [24:53]
Jerry Harrison
You bet. Thanks.
- [24:55]
Buzz Knight
Thanks for listening to this episode of.
- [24:57]
Jerry Harrison
The Taking a Walk podcast.
- [24:59]
Buzz Knight
Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the.
- [25:07]
Jerry Harrison
Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:14]
Buzz Knight
This episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences and like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [26:08]
Podcast Announcer
Lexis believes in the importance of standards One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexis, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their Benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings. Exhilaration. Joy. That sense your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer.
- [26:44]
Johnson Family Member
Please welcome aboard the Johnson family.
- [26:47]
Disney Cruise Narrator
The whole fam's here for the Disney Cruise. So you know we came to play. And listen, the adults are gonna have a ball. First we're chilling in the infinity pool, onto massages at Sense's spa, then gliding into Star Wars Hyperspace Lounge for a toast. We're even gonna kick back with Mickey Disney's Private Island. That's how we get down. Cause Disney Cruise Line is where we came to play.
- [27:14]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough and cold season is coming so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief Tablets or Liquid Gels Halls Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night so you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [27:44]
Johnson Family Member
There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant Performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off storewide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas. Com. Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [28:43]
Podcast Announcer
This is an I Heart podcast.