Charting a New Path in Pop with Livingston

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Charting a New Path in Pop with Livingston" – Takin' a Walk

Episode Details:

• Title: Charting a New Path in Pop with Livingston
• Host: Buzz Knight, iHeartPodcasts
• Release Date: June 24, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Takin' a Walk, Buzz Knight delves into the musical journey of Livingston, a 22-year-old artist whose heartfelt songwriting and evocative voice have captivated audiences nationwide. The conversation explores Livingston's evolution from his early days in Denton, Texas, to his current endeavors in Los Angeles, offering listeners an intimate look into his creative process, personal struggles, and aspirations.

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Early Beginnings and Musical Inspiration

Livingston reminisces about his childhood, highlighting how playing the video game Rock Band with his brother ignited his passion for music. He fondly recalls singing classics like "More Than a Feeling" and "Summer of '69," which planted the initial seed for his musical career.

Livingston (06:06): "I remember the feeling of, like, when the bridge would come in, that part of the song would hit that just caught you on a deeper level… it was just fun to jam out with my brother."

His first concert experience at a Kobe Mack show in Dallas left a lasting impression, especially when Mack acknowledged Livingston's enthusiasm by winking at him for dressing like the artist. This moment served as a catalyst for his future in music.

Livingston (07:00): "When he came out on B stage, he looked at me and he knew I was, like, dressed like him, and he winked at me. I think that set my future in motion."

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Creative Process and Songwriting

Livingston emphasizes the importance of conceptual clarity in his songwriting. He strives to create music with a strong emotional thesis, avoiding abstract themes in favor of clear, impactful statements.

Livingston (08:04): "Everything that I create has a strong… emotional thesis to anything that I consume. I try to make space for concepts, whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just a melodic shape."

He visualizes each song as a vivid scene, ensuring that the final product aligns with his initial creative spark. This method allows him to craft songs that resonate deeply with listeners.

Livingston (13:13): "When it sounds like the original visualization of the song that I had when the spark hit, I know that there's no need to keep… another idea will come."

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Music as a Source of Healing

The discussion turns poignant as Buzz Knight probes into how music has served as a therapeutic outlet for Livingston during his tumultuous school years marked by bullying and isolation. Livingston credits music with saving him from destructive paths, providing a productive channel for negativity.

Livingston (11:13): "Music hit me at the perfect time. It saved me from whatever else I would have found to medicate my issues in middle school and high school… it gave me space to channel a lot of negativity into something productive."

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Exploring Specific Songs

"Half Life"

"Half Life" represents a pivotal moment in Livingston's career, encapsulating his renewed passion for meaningful songwriting amidst uncertainty.

Livingston (12:07): "I wrote that at a time when I was just so confused about what to do next… it really set my course again in a really unclear time."

"Last Man Standing"

This song delves into themes of self-worth and unconditional love, reflecting Livingston's realization that true relationships are built on acceptance rather than external achievements.

Livingston (14:23): "When you truly love somebody, it's not about what they bring into the world… it's just about I love this person for who they are."

"Gravedigger" and "Brainstorm"

"Gravedigger" tackles the struggle of being one's own worst enemy, while "Brainstorm" serves as its lighter counterpart, emphasizing the need to not take life too seriously.

Livingston (16:11): "Gravedigger" is about self-induced friction and the frustration of getting in one's own way.

Livingston (17:10): "'Look Mom, I Can Fly' is a reminder not to take things so seriously… to let go and have a good time."

"Glow"

In "Glow," Livingston offers a message of encouragement, acknowledging the inner strength and beauty in others, even during their darkest moments.

Livingston (17:56): "Glow is just a song describing to somebody the power and the light that they have, even when they don't see it."

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Journey to Los Angeles

Moving from Denton, Texas, to Los Angeles was a strategic decision for Livingston, aimed at honing his skills as a songwriter and producer. Despite the geographical shift, he maintains an insulated lifestyle, spending most of his time in his bedroom studio rather than engaging in the typical LA social scene.

Livingston (05:47): "Most of my time is largely still spent alone. My bedroom studio, I don't really go out, I don't go to parties."

This focus on personal growth and creative development underscores his dedication to his craft.

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Insights into the Music Industry

Livingston offers candid reflections on the uncertainty and lack of formula within the music industry. He believes that authenticity and clear messaging are paramount for success, as the industry largely operates on trial and error.

Livingston (19:52): "Nobody knows what they're doing. Everybody is completely shooting in the dark. The best anybody can do is create authentic things and try to make a clear message."

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Touring Experiences and Audience Connection

Touring has provided Livingston with meaningful interactions with fans, particularly those who find solace and catharsis in his performances. He shares memorable stories of fans overcoming personal challenges through his music.

Livingston (20:53): "There are people who haven't been able to leave their house for six months… my concerts feel really cathartic for them."

To maintain his energy and creativity on the road, Livingston adopts a methodical routine focused on training, rest, and nutrition, ensuring he delivers the best possible performances consistently.

Livingston (22:05): "All I do on the road is train and walk and eat and play shows and sleep. That's it."

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Collaborations and Future Aspirations

Livingston values collaborations that challenge him and complement his skill set. He praises his work with Swedish songwriter Rami Jakub for bringing methodical structure to his creative process.

Livingston (24:37): "Somebody who challenges me and somebody who has complimentary skill sets that maybe I struggle with… we just work really well together."

Dreaming big, Livingston envisions a collaboration camp at Shangri La, bringing together industry giants like Rick Rubin and Jeff Bhasker to create a fusion of diverse musical influences.

Livingston (26:07): "A camp with Rick Rubin, Rami Bellion, Jeff Bhasker… the thought of that even being possible is just kind of crazy to me."

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Final Thoughts and Aspirations

Livingston's ultimate goal is to make listeners feel heard and empowered. He strives to dismantle the notion that personal struggles hinder one's ability to create meaningful art.

Livingston (26:52): "I just want people to feel heard… if my songs could be a small part of empowering that, then that's all I want to do."

As he continues his tour, Livingston remains committed to delivering heartfelt performances, ensuring that every show, regardless of size, offers the same level of passion and connection.

Livingston (23:11): "Everybody gets the same show. Everybody deserves the same show."

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Conclusion

Buzz Knight and Livingston wrap up the episode with mutual appreciation, highlighting the profound impact of Livingston's music on both himself and his audience. This episode serves as an inspiring testament to the power of vulnerability, authenticity, and relentless pursuit of one's artistic vision.

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For more episodes of Takin' a Walk and to follow Livingston's journey, subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Jenny Garth]

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[Livingston]

And entering a world of Cinderella, Castle.

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[Livingston]

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I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw.com taking a walk so when I'm.

[Livingston]

Creating, I think I kind of just try to make space for concepts. Whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just, you know, a melodic shape. Something that feels like it's making a really clear statement. And when that pulls at me and I can kind of visualize what a full song would sound like from there, it then kind of gives way to dialing it in and making it a full song.

[Buzz Knight]

Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast where Buzz Knight explores the stories behind the music. And today we're joined by an artist whose honest songwriting and powerful voice have resonated with fans all over the world. Livingston. From his early days crafting songs in his bedroom to sharing his music on stages across the country, Livingston's journey is a testament to the power of vulnerability and perseverance. In this episode, we'll talk about the moments that shaped his artistry, the inspiration behind his most moving songs, and what he's learned along the way. Buzz talks with Livingston about his new deluxe edition, a hometown odyssey. A story continues on Taking a Walk.

Livingston, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk podcast. It's an honor having you on.

[Livingston]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Buzz Knight]

So since the the show is called Taking a Walk, I'd like to ask this question before we we get the proceedings going. If you could take a walk with somebody who is involved with music, living or dead, who would you take a walk with? And where do you think you would like to take that walk?

[Livingston]

I would love to take a walk with Rick Rubin at Shangri LA in Malibu.

[Buzz Knight]

That would be pretty intense.

[Livingston]

Or maybe the opposite. Maybe it would be like the most relaxing zen. I feel like he has this aura of calm around him or at least just like deeper thought. Like takes you out of the real world and into kind of the what ifs.

[Buzz Knight]

Shoes on. Shoes off.

[Livingston]

Shoes off for sure.

[Buzz Knight]

And what is it like making this move from Denton, Texas now to be LA based? That's a little bit of a different stop on the the map, you know.

[Livingston]

It'S really different though. I categorize my LA experience as pretty insulated because I really didn't change much about my lifestyle from when I moved from Texas because it was just a move made to focus on becoming a better songwriter and producer, which I'm still figuring out. You know, it's years of sessions before I even moved out to la and then years of sessions in la. It's more so just a change that pushed me to push myself further as a creator. But most of my time is largely still spent alone. My bedroom studio, I don't really go out, I don't go to parties. I don't hang out with people that much. I just kind of do my thing.

[Buzz Knight]

Just like in Denton, Texas.

[Livingston]

Exactly.

[Buzz Knight]

It's an amazing story. A hometown odyssey. The story continues. We're going to talk about that for sure. But I do want to ask you, can you share a memory from your childhood that first sparked your. Your love for music?

[Livingston]

I remember playing Rock Band, this video game. I think it was on the Wii back when those were around. And I played it with my brother, and he would drum and I would sing, and it was like just all the classics. It was like, More Than a Feeling and summer of 69 and message in a Bottle and like, all this stuff from Boston and Police and Queen and like, I remember the feeling of, like, when the bridge would come in, that part of the song would hit that just caught you on a deeper level. And, you know, I knew I couldn't sing too well, but, like, you know, it was just fun to jam out with my. With my brother. And that was kind of the first seed planted of music, I think.

[Buzz Knight]

Well, let's have a little fun with something. We'll call it Fast Five here. So five fast questions. Five first concert you ever attended and how it impacted you.

[Livingston]

Kobe Mack at the American Airlines center in Dallas, Texas. And impacted me because I dressed like him, and I was standing by B stage, and when he came out on B stage, he looked at me and he knew I was, like, dressed like him, and he, like, winked at me. And I think it, like, set my future in motion.

[Buzz Knight]

I love that. First instrument you ever played, the violin. First time you wrote or composed a song.

[Livingston]

12 or 13.

[Buzz Knight]

First musician you truly admired.

[Livingston]

John Bellion.

[Buzz Knight]

Nice one. We're trying to get him on the podcast. By the way, first memorable experience performing live in front of an audience.

[Livingston]

Youth group when I was 13, convinced the youth group leader to let me perform in front of everybody. Mike was off for the first two songs.

[Buzz Knight]

Oh, geez. When you're writing a new song, tell us about the creative process. How you start. Do you start with lyrics? Do you start with melody? What is. What is your way of doing it.

[Livingston]

For the longest time? And I think this is still my favorite. It's. It's all concept. First, like, I think everything that I create and everything that I love has a strong. Why I'm not a big fan of abstract stuff. I kind of have a simple palette as a consumer and as a listener and as a viewer of art. I have, like, a mainstream kind of, you know, maybe some would call boring and unnuanced a pugil. But I'm just a sucker for, like, big, solid, clear, emotional thesis to anything that I consume. And so when I'm creating, I think I kind of just try to make space for concepts, whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just, you know, a melodic shape, something that feels like it's making a really clear statement. And when that pulls at me and I can kind of visualize what a full song would sound like from there, it then kind of gives way to. To dialing it in and making it a full song.

[Buzz Knight]

Your music is incredible. The lyrics are incredible, and you're 22 years old.

[Livingston]

Thank you so much.

[Buzz Knight]

And they're lyrics that are certainly of someone who could be way older than 22 years old. Where do you get this. This sense of focus and incredible wisdom?

[Livingston]

You know, I don't know if I don't think I'm wise, because there's still stuff I find out every day in terms of just stumbling over my own feet and, like, figuring out, like, oh, this is. This whole way I was going about this thing was flawed, and there's a better way to do it. And, like, kind of the more, you know, you realize, the less you know. So I think there's that. But I do kind of approach life with a, Like, a really inordinate amount of intensity with everything that I do. It's. It's just very intense. I experience sensations really intensely and emotions really intensely, sometimes at the cost of it being a little too serious. But I think that that helps me out when it comes to music, because I look at every song as. As a bit of a life or death. Like, you know, if I could, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, what would I make today? Which. Which may be a little extreme, but I think that can kind of maybe explain some of the intensity or. Or drive to some of the songs, because I think that they are. Are prisms for a lot of things that I'm trying to get out of my system.

[Buzz Knight]

Just in case, we also produced this other podcast. It's called Music Save Me. It's about the sort of the therapeutic and healing power of music. And I know for you, you went through some terrible times at. At school, and there was bullying and just awful environment. So I do have to ask you, has music saved you, and do you think music has healing power?

[Livingston]

Absolutely. I mean, I think music hit me at the perfect time. I think it saved me from whatever else I would have found to medicate my issues in middle school and high school, be it drugs or alcohol or partying or whatever. The typical and completely understandable vices are to kind of Drown out the feeling of being alone and feeling like other. It gave me space to channel a lot of negativity into something that, at least to me felt productive at the time. Even though I had nothing to show for it besides. And demos. I had no idea what it would give way to, but I always had a feeling about it and it definitely came at the time that I needed it to.

[Buzz Knight]

Your lyrics are so deeply personal. Is there a particular song that was especially cathartic for you or particularly challenging to write?

[Livingston]

Half Life felt like a turning point moment because I. I remember I wrote that at a time when I was just so confused about what to do next. And I. I had, you know, five years of my career under my belt, but nothing to really show for it quite yet. And I remember this feeling of almost rediscovering that initial passion for making a statement in a song that felt big and clear and universal and thinking about all the people that endeavor sacrificed for me and all the times in my life that I've sacrificed for someone I love and realizing that those moments feel so much more potent than these material moments of where things pay off or you see the back end of whatever you're doing kind of comes to fruition and. And I think that song really set my course again in a really unclear time.

[Buzz Knight]

How do you know that one of your songs, when you're creating is truly finished? What's the point that you know, it's. It's done and out the door and done.

[Livingston]

When it sounds like the original visualization of the song that I had when the spark hit, like when the spark hits, it's almost like a 15 second Clockwork Orange, just blitz of information where I can kind of see the entire lifetime of the song play out and what it could be and everything that it could sound like and it. And what color it is and what world it lives in and like it's a little glimpse and it could last as short as a minute. It can last an entire day at the beginning of creating a song. But whenever the version that I bounce sounds and feels and looks to me like that original spark, I know that there's no need to keep, you know, beating it over the head like another idea will come.

[Buzz Knight]

I want to talk about some specific songs off of the Story continues. But I do want to ask you about. I think it's probably my favorite of your work and it's Last Man Standing. Can you talk about that song and the motivation behind it? It's. It is. It's stellar, man.

[Livingston]

Thank you so Much. I. That, that was, that was a song I wrote when, you know, I felt like I didn't have enough to show of what I had done so far to this, this person that I really, really loved and had been with for a really long time. And I felt like I didn't have enough. You know, I wasn't out here making billions of dollars. I wasn't selling out anything. I, you know, years of having pursued this with nothing really to show for it, and I was concerned about, like, hey, do this still. Like, am I still worthy to you as a. As a partner? Can I still give you what you need if I don't have, you know, the world behind me to kind of prove it? Every time I would have that conversation with her, I would just get reminded like, hey, you were there before anything. Like, before, before, you know, the kids at school even knew I made music. You know, I've been with this person since I was 14 years old. So I think realizing that, you know, when you truly love somebody, it's not about what they, what they bring into the world or what their dreams are or how realized their final potential is. It's just about I love this person for who they are and, you know, the way that they see the world. And so I think it was me realizing that I didn't need to be more than I was or do more than I was doing to be worthy.

[Buzz Knight]

It's an incredible song. It. It's so visual.

[Livingston]

Thanks. It's really fun. Live people. People really seem to get into that one in the shows.

[Buzz Knight]

So let's talk about Gravedigger off of the Story continues. Tell me about that song and motivation behind that.

[Livingston]

I think I'm really introspective to a point where I can check my thoughts at the door so much that it becomes a nuisance or it becomes cyclical and repetitive and I can end up getting in my own way and being my own worst enemy. And sometimes that really frustrates me. And so I wanted to write a song about how frustrating that feeling is to kind of know that you are the cause of whatever you're tripping over. It's self induced friction. It's not external. I know a lot of people feel like that too. They just want to get out of their head and into the world. And I definitely resonate with that. So I needed to get it out.

[Buzz Knight]

We all do it, right? It's such a common, A common flaw, right?

[Livingston]

Yeah.

[Buzz Knight]

In the human condition, which is what you explore. You explore the human condition not only in your. In your own self, but in the world around you. How about Look Mom, I Can Fly? Talk about that one.

[Livingston]

I would say, look, Mom, I Can Fly is the exact opposite of Grave Digger. That's. That's just a reminder not to take things so seriously. It's a reminder of every song that I've listened to that just makes me let go, have a good time, and not, you know, look for meaning in every single detail, but just kind of like, you know those days where you wake up and you have the rose colored glasses on and everything is just like kind of magical and nostalgic and you're not taking yourself too seriously. There's a lot to be said for that feeling and I don't experience it as much as I used to. And so I needed to make that song to remind myself of how important it is.

[Buzz Knight]

And I want to talk about a couple of others. Glow off of the Story continues.

[Livingston]

Glow is just a song describing to somebody the power and the light that they have, even when they don't see it and when they feel like the world is against them and they're at the bottom of a very dark place, knowing you can't take them out of that. You don't know exactly what they're going, but you can still see that they're beautiful and they have something to bring to the world, even in that place.

[Buzz Knight]

And then the last one I want to ask you about is Brainstorm.

[Livingston]

Brainstorm is kind of a sister song to Gravedigger, and I think it's a little less dark and a little bit more visual. And so I think it was kind of a. It's kind of improving on the format a little bit of. I'm going to make a dark song about a very introspective thing. Is there a way to describe it that feels more grandiose and a little less dark?

[Buzz Knight]

Can you recall the moment you realized that music was going to be a career, not just a little side passion?

[Livingston]

Yeah, I got a call when I was, I think, 16. I had sent an email with my first song, Fairy Tale, that I had made the year before. And I sent that to someone that I wanted advice from, but I didn't know he was an anr. And he told me, okay, I sent this to my boss and he like signed Ed Sheeran and all these people and really wants to meet you. And that was. That was Greg Nadell. He was a great guy, worked on Electra Records at the time. And that kind of was the moment I was like, oh, it's been in the Bedroom. But now it might leave the bedroom for a bit.

[Buzz Knight]

What has been the biggest surprise or lesson that you've learned since entering the music industry?

[Livingston]

Nobody knows what they're doing. Absolutely nobody knows what they're doing. There is no formula. Everybody is completely shooting in the dark. It is no man's land. It is complete trial and error and rubbing sticks together to try to make a spark. And the best anybody can do is create authentic things and try to make a clear message and something that is unambiguous enough to stick out and put a foot in the ground on something. That is the only thread I see behind things that are consistently successful and world changing. And aside from that, if there is any rhyme or reason to this whole industry, I don't see it.

[Buzz Knight]

Right on memorable stories from touring or performing that you might want to share that really stand out.

[Livingston]

Some of the stories about people who. Who come to the VIP and are like, I haven't been able to leave my house for six months. Like, I have a fear of being around people. I have a fear of noises. And, you know, I think my concerts feel really cathartic. And so there's space for a lot of people that deal with a lot internally. And I love that because I think, you know, a lot of us, and I say us meaning, you know, people who experience deep things internally and have a hard time sometimes bringing that out into the world. The temptation is to make that a very insulative experience and to not share it and to not have a community. And so all these people I've met that are like, you know, have. Have either dealt with immense mental or physical challenges and still find themselves, you know, at the shows, showing up and kind of facing whatever they need to face and using it as an emotional outlet just makes it really rewarding for me.

[Buzz Knight]

How do you keep your energy, your creativity up in the most positive way when you're on the road? Since the road can be difficult.

[Livingston]

All I do on the road is train and walk and eat and play shows and sleep. That's it. And maybe, you know, talk to my people every day. Obviously, you know, talk to my. Talk to my family, you know, but largely it's, how narrow can I make this experience and what variables cross over and help the other ones the most? And for me, the more I train, the better condition I'm in for the show. The more I rest, the better I recover from the show and the training. The more I eat, the more fuel I have for the show. So it's kind of just this methodical you know, maybe too methodical. Jenga, Castle of I can't do everything right now while I'm on the road, but if I can put on the best show I possibly can every single night and then still challenge myself in other ways while I'm out, then it feels productive to me.

[Buzz Knight]

It sounds like you make every show as if it's your last show. You pour so much into it.

[Livingston]

We say a prayer before we go out every night. And the theme of this tour, you know, because we've played this set almost a hundred times now, the exact same set, and so there's a temptation to go autopilot, but then there's a reminder that I say during the prayer every night, which is just like it doesn't matter whether it's, you know, the 300 person show in New Orleans or it's the other night in Salt Lake, which is like 2,400 people. Everybody gets the same show. Everybody deserves the same show. I came from a small town. Not all the concerts of my favorite artists would even pass through Dallas. A lot of artists ignored Dallas. I was like, you know, people are showing up in these places where it's even less common and more inconvenient to get to a show. And it's not just baked into a part of daily life like in these bigger cities. They deserve the exact same show as the people in the big cities. And often they're even more appreciative of it. So it's a constant challenge to myself to 26 shows in a row. There are days when I feel amazing and then there are days when I don't. But regardless, that shouldn't have an impact on the show that people get or the experience they have.

[Buzz Knight]

You've had some great collaborations. I want you to maybe talk about some of those people you've collaborated with. And I want to ask you, what do you look for in a collaboration in a creative partner?

[Livingston]

I look for somebody who challenges me and somebody who has complimentary skill sets that maybe I struggle with or have blind spots with. My favorite collaborator, who I'm working with extensively right now is Rami Jakub, who's a brilliant, brilliant Swedish songwriter and one of my favorite humans in the world. And he just has this common sense understanding of how a song should be arranged and how the melody should flow into each other and how to build tension and release and suspense and have shapes that are just iconic within their song. And a lot of times I think that can bring a sort of method to the madness that is really solid and really impressive from a creative standpoint, and we just work really well together. So, yeah, I think a challenge, and I think somebody who maybe even sees the world in a different way, because if not, why would I collaborate? You know, Like, I. I could. I could write with myself all day, but I'm only one me, and I only have. I have my little narrow pinhole through which I view the world. Why not bring in someone who's lived a different life? Maybe we could challenge each other. Maybe we could have a different perspective on the same thing and then those things collide and make something fresh.

[Buzz Knight]

And how about a dream collaboration that would just, you know, knock you out, man.

[Livingston]

It might be like. It might be like a really fun camp at Shangri La for the third album. Like a. Like Rick Rubin, but also bringing in all the people I. I've looked up to. Like, if it could be a camp with, like, I don't know, like, Rami Belian, Rick fricking Jeff Bhasker, Burrell. Like that. To me, it's. How many pots and pans can we band together and, like, synthesize, like, all this stuff I grew up on and then also just be around grapes, which. The thought of that even being possible is just kind of crazy to me.

[Buzz Knight]

What do you hope listeners take away from your music?

[Livingston]

I just want people to feel heard, and I don't want people to feel as if their unique internal experience separates them from the rest of the world or from their potential or from. I think you can still create amazing and beautiful and profound things, even if you have something that you feel like slows you down. And it's really, really easy to compare and look at other people, and you can come up with a hundred reasons you're not good enough. But if you look at all the people that have made something exceptional, a lot of them had a lot slowing them down, and sometimes a lot more than us slowing them down. So I think, you know, get out of your head, get into the world, find what you love to do. And if my songs could be a small part of empowering that, then that's. That's all I want to do.

[Buzz Knight]

Congratulations on the. The tour. On a hometown odyssey, the story continues.

[Livingston]

Thank you, sir.

[Buzz Knight]

I just have. I just have one last question. When you're at the point, when you're playing stadiums, would you consider coming back on?

[Livingston]

I would. Absolutely. Just give me a call.

[Buzz Knight]

Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. Livingston, it's an honor.

[Livingston]

Thank you, Buzz. Thank you for your time.

[Buzz Knight]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk Podcast Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jenny Garth]

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[Jenny Garth]

This is an iHeart podcast.