← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Classic Replay with Nic Collins from The Effect
00:29:21
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Buzz Knight
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- [01:29]
Buzz Knight
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- [02:03]
Nick Collins
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- [02:35]
My biggest teacher now is YouTube. You know I spend hours watching all my favorite drummers and I think that's Such a huge asset. Now you can just watch a drum playthrough and see exactly what's happening, and you have so much access to information that it's become a great tool. But I see it, you know, being able to listen to as many drummers and just kind of, you know, add different colors to your palette and to your. To your arsenal of sounds.
- [03:00]
Buzz Knight
Welcome. This is the Taking a Walk podcast with Buzz Knight, the podcast that delves into the stories of musicians and their passion for their music. Today Buzz is joined by drummer Nick Collins. Nick is Phil Collins son, and he's carving out his own musical journey. Here's Buzz Knight and Nick Collins on.
- [03:24]
Nick Collins
Nick Collins, it's so great to have you on this virtual edition of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [03:31]
Of course. Thank you so much for having me, man.
- [03:33]
Congratulations on all of your work. We're going to talk about the effect and how excited you are about that, but I do want to get into a little talk about your father and your work with him as well. First of all, how is your dad these days?
- [03:50]
Yeah, yeah, he's doing good. He's retired, you know, until. Until maybe he gets the itch again to do it. But at the moment, he's. He's enjoying the retired life.
- [04:02]
Well, how does it make you feel when fans and fellow musicians are wowed by your playing?
- [04:11]
Oh, it's great. I mean, you know, obviously, it's a huge compliment and an honor that, you know, get to do things. People like it, that's great. Obviously, if people don't like it, that's fine, too. You know what I mean? I think it's awesome to be. To be doing the thing that I love, you know, and I've been very lucky to have been able to do it in different contexts, different artists and bands, and so, yeah, it's a very huge compliment.
- [04:40]
Well, besides your dad, talk about the other drummers that you've studied very closely.
- [04:47]
Oh, yeah. I mean, do this. The laundry list goes on and on. You know, it's always, always growing. But I think my main drum heroes are Danny Carey, John Bonham, Abe Cunningham, who from Deftones. Stuart Copeland. I mean, there's so much John Theodore from Mars Volta and Queens of the Stone Age. It's just so many all the time. Taylor Hawkins, he was a huge one. You know, it's like different eras of, like, in different parts of my life and which drummers really grabbed me at different times. You know, like, growing up, it was obviously apart from my dad. The first three were. Were bottom. And then Taylor Hawkins and Chad Smith from the Chili Peppers and Taylor and Chad. I felt this huge, you know, I really idolized them just because it felt like I, these were like my generation of guys, you know, like they had, when I say Bonham and Stuart Copeland, that they'd been around for such a long time, that those were their favorite drummers. And it felt like with Chad and Taylor it was like, oh, this is the new guys. Those are my guys. And it was not my dad's guys and stuff like that. So I felt like a real connection to them and it made me fall in love with the idea of being in a band and playing live. And then since different eras where I started getting into Prague music and that's when Danny Carey, Gavin Harrison, I started really John Theodore, looking up to them. But the same way that I'll also look up to like the jazz fusion world and you know, get into guys like Billy Cobham or even more newer guys like Larnell Lewis from Snarky Puppy, you know, they all have such an equal influence on me because to me that's the best teacher is just being able to listen to as much music and as many drummers as possible.
- [06:29]
You know, we had Kenny Aronoff on the podcast previously and Kenny talked about a lot of his disciplines to sort of stay in tune and primed for every performance, you know, his whole practice session and regimen. How do you go about that sort of process?
- [06:48]
Yeah, I think, I mean I, when I'm on tour, it's a different thing to when I'm like at home and it's more studio stuff, you know, on tour I do, I am very disciplined in like a warm up routine just because when you're doing it, you know, playing two and a half hours every night, you want to make sure that you're not hurting yourself. So I'll go through like a, a 30 to 45 minute warm up routine with like a metronome and go through a bunch of different rudiments at different speeds and my body warmed up and just get the blood flowing to the wrists. And because I, I used to have some wrist problems, I started using heavier sticks and that kind of took a lot of it away. But I still want to make sure that I'm, you know, able to keep it up for as long as possible. But I, I, I do also realize I need to do a better job of that when I'm at home or when I'm like, you know, just this week we were rehearsing with the effect and you know, I I'll like, just jump into rehearsals and then now I'm like, oh, my arm kind of hurts, you know, and I should. It's like, just because it's rehearsals does not mean you should not warm up, you know, just because it's not a show. So that's something I've got to get better at. But definitely taking care of myself, you know, and staying active, going to the gym and, you know, always making sure that my body is in shape because drumming is very physical and I don't want to be injuring myself. And so far everything's been good. I try to make that a priority.
- [08:03]
I love what I saw online, the. The grooves of Genesis, that whole presentation there with Duke's intro and cinema show and behind the Lines. So many great songs. Watcher of the Skies, did you have fun doing that particular session?
- [08:21]
Yeah, that was great. I mean, you know, shout out to the guys at drumeo. They were, you know, they're incredible guys and the platform that they've built. I mean, I've been a fan of theirs for. Since I was like 12, you know, looking up at, look, watching those videos on YouTube. So to finally be in the space and doing stuff with them was really awesome. That was probably like two years ago that we filmed it, which is a trip because, like, you know, not all the videos have come out yet. So we had like another video come out in like January and like, you know, I remember my girlfriend being like, you look really young. And I'm like, yeah, that was two years ago. Like, you know, I've aged. But no, that was a lot of fun. It was a lot of rehearsal and because basically we shot a course about my dad's playing and you know, that's kind of. That was the livestream that we did and that's out on YouTube. And we actually did a more in depth course about each of those songs kind of by themselves, plus some additional ones. And it was great fun, you know, I mean, I think to me it was. It felt like this is the thing I want to do for my dad. And you know, also I think the younger generation maybe don't know my dad as a drummer and know him more as the in the era guy or the Tarzan guy. And I feel like I wanted to showcase. Like, no, you know, my dad was a. Was a badass drummer, you know, and that was after doing the Genesis thing. We shot like a huge course and I learned 40 songs. Like some of the songs we were playing in the show. But then a bunch of other of like the really Heavy Prague tunes, that. Which I. We didn't do in rehearsal. So it was a lot of work and a lot of pressure, but it was a, you know, a great time. I had a lot of fun doing that session and so many great drum parts. And it is a weird thing when you're trying to explain and teach parts that you didn't write or that you weren't involved in, you know, because I'm like, this is like. Some of these songs were 30 years before I was even born. You know what I mean? So, like, it can be a bit interesting. But I thought it was, you know, it was good fun. And, you know, I'm excited for that course to finally come out. When it does, you know, there's just, you know, some copyright things that need to be cleared up first.
- [10:14]
I thought it was fantastic. And I have to tell you, Nick, you make it look really easy, and I know it's not.
- [10:21]
Thank you so much. No, I mean, you know, like, it's. I've been around those parts for a while, but it's definitely takes a long time of getting it down. Like, I wouldn't. You know, I'm not gonna be like, oh, yeah, I just went in there and just played them, you know, like, that was maybe two months worth of repetition, multiple days a week to try and be comfortable with the songs. Because some of those songs are just, like, really complex and a lot of improv. And when you're trying to learn somebody's improv, it's very. You know, it can get very tricky.
- [10:50]
I was privileged to see your dad play with Genesis a few times, also to see him play with Brand X. And I wanted to share one of those experiences that I'll never forget. It was the Trick of the Tail tour, and it was the dual drumming of your dad and the great Bill Bruford. I was wondering if you ever got to see, in any sort of video form, anything from that tour.
- [11:23]
I've seen videos. I don't know if it's from that tour. I've seen some videos of him and my dad and Bill doing Cinema Show. That may have been from the seconds out or before that, like maybe that. The tour after Trick of the Tale. I'm not sure when that video was, but I've seen some of it. I mean, you know, Bill is another guy who's become such a big influence, and he's like the Prague drummer of the 70s. You know, it's in every great Prague band. Bill Bruford was in it at some point, you know, and he's what a great drummer. And that was, you know, that the double drums became a theme of my life, from watching those videos to watching him and Chester do it, to actually watching it live between them. So, yeah, I mean, amazing stuff.
- [12:02]
Yeah, it was the Ohio Theater in Columbus, Ohio, where I saw it, and our mind was completely blown from that show and it changed us really.
- [12:11]
Oh, wow, that's amazing.
- [12:13]
Yeah. And of course, were you able to sort of go back and study some of the Brand X work from your dad?
- [12:20]
Yeah, we didn't do as much for the course. You know, it's. It's funny. Like, I've kind of gotten more into the Brand X stuff more recently. You know, after the Genesis thing and getting into the Prague side of. Of their sound and getting into Brand X and the more fusion stuff, it started really impacting me also as a drummer and, like, going from playing the really heavy, loud beats to like, the really quiet, intricate, more fusiony stuff. But, you know, so that's some great material with Brand X. And we did. I think we broke down maybe one or two for the drumeo thing, but now it's, you know, it's one of those things that I get into more now. Like, it's just, you know, the evolution of what you listen to and what you decide to get into and. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's funny to see that different sides of, like, my dad's playing, which I haven't, you know, been familiar with until I'm like, 21 or 20. You know what I mean? It's strange to be like, oh, you did this too. You're not just this guy. You also happen to do something that's completely, totally different.
- [13:19]
And on the dual drumming theme, what's your personal take on the dual drumming that was so part of the Allman Brothers and obviously the Grateful Dead as well?
- [13:31]
Yeah, I thought it was great. I mean, you know, I think it's like, my opinion is always dependent on, like, the context, you know, I think as, like, as a drummer, you kind of want to go into. Be like, I don't need another drummer. I could do everything. You know what I mean? Like, there's like, that ego side of things. But I think when Genesis were doing it, it was such an amazing asset to have to the. To the show. Not only just in, like, the Prague bits and the instrumental parts, where both my dad and whether it was Bill or Chester, when they would play it became. It just added this layer to the music, both visually and, you know, sonically, but I also think you know, to have those drum featured moments where, you know, not every band can just get two guys to do, to do it at that level. You know what I mean? I think you can get some guys where, I don't know, a lead singer or a band will go and play some, you know, toms or something. But it doesn't, you know, to have two guys who are just like absolute monsters at drums doing and playing off of each other and creating compositions together. I thought it was, you know, it became something that I was just so familiar with from watching all the live DVDs and just being there and watching the shows, you know, like later on. And it was a weird thing when I joined Genesis and it was just me because we had something similar in my dad's band where me and the percussionist would do a drum bit, like a drum part kind of, not a solo, like a drum duo kind of thing. And we'd, we'd play off of each other. But with Genesis, you know, we didn't do that because my dad can't play drums anymore. But, you know, it was tricky playing navigating some of the instrumental songs which used to have double, double drum featured moments, you know, especially CinemaShow had like a call and response on the snares and it was just me. And so I think, you know, Daniel Pierce, who was one of the backing singers, did do a little bit of Timbalis to like do have that effect, like the call and response. But it was also for me trying to find like, okay, how can I play the groove? But also still include some of that double drum stuff because it's hard when you're just one person when, you know, back then it would be like Chester would keep the groove going and my dad would go and, you know, play off the keyboards or something. So it was a bit tricky to find the right balance. But you know, by the end it was, you know, I think we got it down by the end, hopefully.
- [15:42]
I pretty sure you did. So the great movie Whiplash, I guarantee you probably saw it. The question is, did it scar you for life?
- [15:55]
That's, you know what's funny? The whiplash. When I did the drumeo thing, one of the first time listening videos was the song Whiplash, which I've seen the movie Whiplash but for some reason didn't connect the song. I just like, I was like, something sounds familiar about it, but then, you know, Brandon starts riffing off Whiplash quotes and, you know, threatening to throw a symbol at me. And that's when I was like, oh, that's from Whiplash. You know what I mean? But I really liked the movie when it came out. I was young enough where, like, it was just, like, it made me really interested in jazz. But, you know, it is now. I look at it and I can see why it would upset some people just because it's very unhealthy. But I think that was the point. Like, the point and the great. You know, J.K. simmons is amazing in that movie. And, like, that role, like, where you really hate the teacher and you hate the bandleader. I think it was supposed to be kind of influenced by Buddy Rich. Obviously. I'm not. I'm not sure. I never met Buddy Rich, but that was what I've heard that that was the influence of. Of, like, the harsh. The harshness. And I think, you know, maybe it was a bit extra. But it's a movie, you know what I mean? Like, it's also, you know, when. When Miles Teller puts his hand in the, you know, jug of water and he's all bleeding, I'm like, that doesn't happen either. You know what I mean? It's the dramatic of Hollywood. But I thought it was a good movie. I understood the message. And obviously, I think it's not supposed to be taken literally. If a teacher was really like that, then there'd be a problem, because I don't think that's really healthy. But I think for a movie and to almost put drums in the limelight, especially jazz drumming, which became this huge thing around the world when that movie came out. I think it was great to be able to feature the drums that way.
- [17:33]
Buzz Knight
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [17:44]
Nick Collins
Who are the teachers, aside from your father, obviously, that made an impact on you and really shaped you to this moment today.
- [17:52]
Yeah, I mean, I've only really had one drum teacher. His name is John Pierre Espiritu Santo, and I started taking lessons with him when I first moved to Miami, Florida, and I was like 11 or 12. And, you know, originally I kind of wanted to be a soccer player. That's really. That was what I wanted to do. And then I moved to Miami and kind of realized I'm not that good at soccer. And I'm like, oh, I guess I'm okay at this other thing. Let me take this more seriously. But my technique, you know, I played drums and I had a good sense of groove and rhythm, but my technique was just not there. And so he really was able to help me Hone in on that technique. And he was, you know, taught me about all the different rudiments, but also different Latin grooves, which at the time I, you know, didn't understand why I was playing bossa nova or samba. I was like, this is this. Yeah, I want to play Foo Fighters music. Like, what are you. Why are we doing this? But then I've understood as I got older and then I started getting into progressive music and polyrhythms. I was like, no, it was about the limb independence, you know, so I'm very grateful to, for him teaching me that. But, you know, we don't. I don't take lessons necessarily anymore. Honestly. My biggest teacher now is YouTube. You know, I spend hours watching all my favorite drummers and I think that's such a huge asset that I don't think, you know, young people nowadays realize how lucky we are to have the access to YouTube because I, you know, I talk about it with different guys and they're like, yeah, well, back when I was growing up, it's like you had to like rewind the DVR and like try and like play it so you could see what was happening or just like, you just had to listen. Whereas now you can just watch a drum playthrough and see exactly what's happening. And you have so much access to information that it's become a great tool. But I see it, you know, being able to listen to as many drummers and just kind of, you know, add different colors to your, to your palette and to your, to your arsenal of sounds. I think that's such a, you know, big asset nowadays.
- [19:46]
And the interesting thing about YouTube as a teacher is it doesn't really do you any good to get angry at YouTube for like you would a teacher.
- [19:57]
Yeah, you can get angry at yourself, you know, or you see like, you know, I will say sometimes on YouTube, it's like, you know, you'll see some seven year old from, you know, Japan or something and he's just like way better than you. And you're just like. It makes you like. You're like, what the hell is. You know, it's like. But that's the only thing I think, you know, you can maybe get. You lose sight of what the point is and be. And because you see so many people that are just so great and it can like damage your confidence. But I think it's better to just look at it in an approach of like a learning side of things and you see these people and it's, you know, what can you take from these different drummers to add to your own, to your own drumming.
- [20:35]
So let's talk about the effect. How did the effect come together? Talk about all the key players there in the band that make up the effect and how excited you are about the project.
- [20:47]
Yeah. So the effect came about Trev Lukather, who's the guitar player and producer of the band. His dad is Steve Lukather from Toto. You know, we actually. Leland Sklar and Amy Keys, who were both in my dad's solo band and Toto, at different points, you know, they'd been telling Trev and I that, like, you know, you guys need to get together. You know, you guys would really get along and, you know, you need to do something together. And, you know, I think we followed each other on Instagram and just like, connected on social media, you know, supported each other here and there. But it wasn't until January of 2023 where he was in Miami for some reason for a TV show that kind of went south. It was like he was going to be hosting this thing, and producer and director kind of went at it, and so the show was canceled and he was like, well, I'm stuck in Miami. Who do I know? And so he invited me out to dinner and it was him and his wife Madison, and then me and my girlfriend Isabella, and we got together on a double date. And that was the first time we met. And we totally hit it off. You know, we connected and found that we related a lot on, you know, in different ways. Almost felt like we'd live parallel lives and just so many things that were in both of our lives that we really were able to kind of bond on and. But at the time, you know, he did. He was. He still does a lot of production work. And I. I think that was the extent of what we thought was going to happen if we worked together, was just like, oh, I'll play on a session, or, you know, something like that. But then fast forward a couple months. I was on the road with Mike and the Mechanics, and Trev sent me a text and he was like, hey, dude, I'm thinking of putting a group together. Just an experiment. And this is who's in the band. Are you down? And I'm like, well, maybe. I was like, what do you have in mind? And then he sent me the guitar riff to Unwanted. Like, that was literally the first tune we ever did together. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm down. Like, let's do it. I didn't get to record my parts until I Got back from the road. And then we did that first song and then it turned. Let's do another. And then two, three songs turned into. Well, no, let's. Let's actually be a band. You know, let's actually do it. But the funny thing is we, by the. We had written, recorded and mixed three songs before all four of us were ever in the same room together. Which is because, you know, we've done, like, I live in Miami, Shreve lives in la. And then Steve Maggiora, who plays keyboards and does background vocals. He lives in Palo alto, like, so NorCal. And then Emmett Stang, who's the singer, he lives in Vegas. So it was all being done very remotely. But then we got together and we all kind of really hit it off and, you know, we all really got along. And basically that was in June. June was when we started the record and. And basically we finished the record by December. It was very. We didn't go like, let's write the whole record and then record it. It was. We were recording it and mixing it as it was being written. And, you know, everybody brings such an interesting take to. To the whole, you know, band. You know, we never had a conversation. What kind of band do we want to be? What genre? Like, you know, what bands are we going to try and emulate? Like, it was literally, this is what the four of us sound like when we are writing music together. And, you know, the first song I recorded last. But typically what we've done is Trev. Trev will come up with a guitar part and a guitar idea and we'll essentially map out a whole song's worth of like, okay, here's the verse, pre chorus, chorus, whatever. And he'll just send it to me blank with just the guitars. And then I will go. And other than unwanted where I was the last one, every other song has been this way, where I'll go and basically write a drum part and, you know, go into the rehearsal room and then I'll FaceTime Trev and we'll basically bounce notes off of one another of what he likes, what I like, what I don't like, and, you know, and then from there I basically record the drums the day that they're written. Which is not what I'm not very used to because usually with you know, with other, you know, with my other band, Better Strangers, like, I'm very meticulous about how much work I can put it, you know, and overthinking my drum parts. And Trev wanted me to just be very instinctual like no, I want to capture whatever magic you were able to get. So then once I've done that, you know, Trev will lay down his real guitars and Steve Medroy will lay down his keyboard parts, which, you know, he always. The textural stuff that Steve is able to create is really amazing on a. Both keyboard wise and also background vocals. And then Emmett gets together with Trev and they write the lyrics and top line together. And you know, Emmett's voice is the range that that guy has. Not just literally on a musical range, but I mean the fact that he goes from being like this really heavy rock singer to also being able to dial it back and do the total pop thing, you know, it's a really, you know, the whole band is just a class musicians and it's lots of fun to be able to create and work with those guys. Everybody brings just so much to the table.
- [25:45]
And what is the expectation on the band in terms of touring and just getting out for people to see it?
- [25:53]
Yeah, so we finished the album at the end of last year, so we just put out another single a couple weeks ago. And actually I was just in LA last week. We just recorded and did a video for something very exciting that will be announced soon. So we're very pumped about that. But no, we've got some American dates that will be announced eventually for in May and then we've got a European tour happening this summer where we've got our own headline shows but we're also playing the Isle of Wight Festival and also the Coupe Live Festival in France and then we're opening for Toto in Germany which, you know, huge shout out and thank you to, you know, Luke and everybody in the Toto crew for being able to, for wanting us out there and for having us. It's going to be a great time. So yeah, basically, you know, we're going to be playing some shows and getting on the road this year and hopefully the album, you know, we don't have a set release date. We've released three singles so far and you know, everything's finished. It's just basically about finding the right time and place to put it out. Whether, you know, nowadays so much music gets put out every day on streaming services that like, if you do it wrong, you just end up being another drop in the ocean. And I think for us, like we believe in the record and everybody's put in work into the album that we feel like it deserves the, you know, to get the right attention.
- [27:15]
And will better strangers still still exist as well?
- [27:19]
Yeah, of course, you know, I'm doing both. And, you know, it's funny, I grew up from a dad who, you know, had a solo. Very successful solo career and a very successful Genesis career as well. So the idea of doing both is not something that scares me, you know, And I really like actually doing both because they are such different bands. And like almost every way, you know, the effect is more of a pop rock. That's what I consider pop rock. But we do get pretty heavy sometimes. Whereas Better Strangers is more of a progressive, you know, progressive band, you know, with that goes a bit heavier, maybe like the line between progressive hard rock and progressive metal at this point. But it's great, you know, I get different creative outlets and in different ways. And, you know, it's been lots of fun to be able to do both.
- [28:06]
So when you're playing live, how much of playing live as a drummer is about getting in a particular zone, that you're just kind of off at a different place and it's coming so naturally?
- [28:21]
Yeah, I mean, I think, again, it depends on the band and what the role is, because, you know, with the effect we play, I play to click. And so that is different because you. You really have to. You're. You gotta be really locked in with what you're playing along to, because if you're off, then it becomes a whole train wreck. But it's a different kind of thing because you're not really worried about whether it's with Genesis or My dad or better Strangers, where I don't play to click. Those become more like, I have to get in the zone where I'm. I got to make sure I don't let the adrenaline take over and I'm playing things too fast, too slow. I think with the effect, it's like making sure obviously, you know the songs and really locking in. And, you know, it comes. It's. It's a mix of muscle memory, but also really being familiar and becoming almost one with the material. That's always something I've said to anybody when I've done the few clinics that I've done. My biggest advice is when you get hired or asked to play a gig, familiarize yourself with the songs in a way where they become second nature. And you're not just listening to them in the rehearsal room, but you're listening to them on the way to the grocery store or on the way to the gym or whatever it is. I think that's the biggest thing is. Is being aware that, like, you know, this is what's best for the song. This is what the song needs. And really kind of getting into that mindset.
- [29:44]
In closing, is there a dream band that you. I realize the effect is a dream right now because there's a great amount of serendipity to it, but is there some dream players that you think about and go, my God, if I could ever do a session with this group of people, this would be incredible?
- [30:04]
That's a great question. I think it really. It really depends. And I mean, I. There's obviously the guys, like, you know, I would love to play a song with Chino from the Deftones, Chino Moreno singing, or Maynard James Keenan from Tool singing. I love both of those guys. As you know, their. They're singing so much and their vocal parts and their sound that I'd love to do a song with them on it. Then as far as musicians, I mean, there's so many. I think, off the top of my head now, I'm thinking John Frusciante or Flea from the Chili Peppers. I mean, those guys were such a big deal for me growing up that to be able to be on a track with them would be a dream. I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that one. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many different, you know, there's different producers and, you know, guys that I look up to that, that I, of course I want to work with, but also I, you know, I. In that. In that same way, it motivates me to try and make my own thing and with my own, you know, bandmates and. And be able to, like, create something that I believe in and that's unique that way as well.
- [31:10]
Well, definitely get back to me because I'm not going to be surprised at anything you pull off, Nick.
- [31:14]
Okay, amazing. Thank you so much.
- [31:17]
Yeah. Congratulations on everything. Congrats on the new project, the Effect and better Strangers and all your work around Genesis and your dad and Mike and the mechanics. Please tell your dad, give him our love. And it's so great to have you on Taking a Walk, Nick.
- [31:33]
I appreciate it, Buzz. Thanks so much for having me.
- [31:36]
Buzz Knight
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
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