← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Exploring Music History on Foot: Buzz Knight and Stewart Copeland Share Legendary Stories from The Police and Creative Journeys
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- [00:01]
Buzz Knight
Taking a Walk I'm Buzz Knight and welcome to the Taking A Walk podcast.
- [00:05]
Stewart Copeland
Now I want to hear from you.
- [00:07]
Buzz Knight
Open the iHeart app, hit the talk Back button and leave me a voice message. Tell me what you think of the show. Or better yet, tell me who your dream walk would be with. Living or dead. I want to know. Leave it right there in the app. I would really appreciate it. So we have a very, very special episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. He helped change the sound of rock and roll with a drum kit, a
- [00:35]
Stewart Copeland
reggae infused groove, and one of the
- [00:38]
Buzz Knight
most iconic bands ever to walk the planet. Stewart Copeland co founded the Police in 1977 alongside Sting and Andy Summers, and together they gave the world Roxanne, Every Breath youh Take, Message in a Bottle, and a catalog that still resonates nearly five decades later. But here's the thing about Stuart Copeland. He never stopped after the Police. He composed film scores, wrote operas, collaborated with orchestras around the world, recorded with Oysterhead, and kept pushing music into places most people couldn't imagine. Today he's going to be hitting the road in 2026 with a spoken word tour. Have I said too much? The Police, Hollywood and other adventures where he's sharing his stories live and in person. And there's no shortage of stories today on Taking a Walk. A man who many consider the greatest rock drummer of all time, Stewart Copeland, is next on Takin A Walk.
- [01:38]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human
- [01:44]
Lowe's Advertiser
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- [02:08]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
Visit your nearby Lowe's.
- [02:13]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the Enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the Games and with the athletes for a full year.
- [02:30]
Superhuman Podcast Athlete
Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [02:36]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:43]
David Eagleman
There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer songwriter Jewel about anxiety.
- [02:55]
Jewel
I started living in my car and then my car Got stolen. I panic attacks. I was agoraphobic.
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David Eagleman
This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to intercosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [03:15]
Mental Health PSA Speaker
Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it. Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health, because most people out here really care. Find more information@loveyourmindtoday.org that's loveyourmindtoday.org brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council.
- [03:48]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Taking a walk. How you doing?
- [03:50]
Stewart Copeland
Good, Stuart.
- [03:51]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
How are you? Real good, thanks. Good. What the hell are we talking about today?
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Stewart Copeland
What would you like to talk about?
- [03:58]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Oh, usually my go to is myself. Perfect. But I'm not particularly selling anything right now. So, hey, let's talk about you.
- [04:12]
Stewart Copeland
Well, I'm thrilled to have you and
- [04:17]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
let's start it up, sir.
- [04:20]
Stewart Copeland
So, Stuart, since we call this podcast Taking a Walk, is there somebody you'd like to take a walk with? It could be living, could be dead. It could be more than one person. Who would be that sparked conversation that would make it a great walk?
- [04:38]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, if it was a drive in my car, I'd take Mozart and play him some music. Walking along, just talking historical figures. Are you looking for musicians or anybody personal, famous?
- [04:54]
Stewart Copeland
All your decision?
- [04:56]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, I'll tell you one time was a real story as I had the opportunity to meet Mikhail Gorbachev, who's one of the great men of history. I mean, like Castro, Reagan, Thatcher, you know, he's one of those people. He's in every history book. And I had a chance to actually meet him, and it was in Italy, and it was a really long banquet, dinner party thing. And finally after the thing, I got a chance to meet him and we're brought up together and he's there with his entourage, and he's got these two buxom blondes peeking out from behind him, which I believe are his daughters. And so we're brought together, the great moment. And I've been thinking all day, what do you say to Gorbachev? Then I had a couple of options. One was, sir, are you now or have you ever really been a Communist? That was one which I thought was kind of cool, but he might not get it, since that's an American trope. So what I was going to do was, when did you realize that the entire edifice of Soviet power was a rusting, rotting hulk? How far down the echelons of the power structure of the Soviet Union was it known that the entire thing was a farce? Or did you find out when you got to the big office with the corner suite? Was that when you found out that you had no navy, no air force, worth a dang. And I was all set with these questions. I was quite excited. And so the moment arrives, and we're presented to each other, and his daughters are speaking out from behind. And I hear the translator going, brush, Gabush. Gabrisch. Da dush da boosh, da dush. Gabush to Sting. I noticed that the two blonde ladies behind him were looking a little disappointed. And I realized that, you know, okay, got the introduction slightly wrong there, but never mind. So I asked the interpreters, you know, would it be okay if I ask a political question? Then here's the thing. This man of history, this, you know, actually answered my question. He wasn't actually looking directly at me. And the word came out of his mouth, nyet. And I. To this day, I'm still reeling from this acknowledgment of my existence. Well, he didn't actually. I don't even know if he actually saw me or, you know, didn't. But the word nyet was applied to me. Me. Little old me, the great man of destiny spoke a word about me. And as I'm sitting here talking to you, I have been, well, indirectly addressed by Gorbachev. How about that?
- [07:39]
Stewart Copeland
What a great story.
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Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Oh, God.
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Stewart Copeland
It really proves that the big buildup moment usually doesn't really turn out to be anything.
- [07:50]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Yeah, certainly for his daughters, it was kind of a letdown that it wasn't. Gabershki. Berski. Berski. Sting.
- [07:57]
Stewart Copeland
Oh, my goodness. So in your time as a CIA, you know, having a CIA office father, right?
- [08:06]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Yeah.
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Stewart Copeland
Who moved the family around to the Middle east, you must have had a lot of interesting encounters with not only leaders, but different.
- [08:18]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
I don't know. Actually, I had a lot of encounters with, you know, my father as cultural. In Syria, would throw soirees, dinner parties in there amongst, strangely, amongst all of the poets, playwrights and novelists and intellectual thinkers of Damascus, there was a sprinkling of uniformed men in uniform. And, of course, that's what the real party was all about, was grooming these colonels in case they might be needed for the next coup.
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Stewart Copeland
How did that shape you musically though? Because you were exposed to different cultures, different music. And it must have been, you know, fascinating to be curious because you moved around a lot.
- [09:03]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, I didn't move around that much actually. I left America when I was two months old. Born in Alexandria, Virginia, which is a suburb of the CIA. Two months old, arrived in Cairo, I was there for maybe five or six years. And then Beirut for 10 years, Beirut, Lebanon, until my sort of early to mid teens. And then off to boarding school in. In England, which is not that many places, I suppose. Not quite as much as like an army brat, you know, I was a diplo brat I guess. It's a few places. And as far as culture, I and all of the other kids at the American Community School in Beirut was we were all desperate to be American. And we were trying to steep ourselves in what glimpses of American culture we could find while we were enveloped physically in a rich Arabic culture that goes back centuries and actually has much more profound cultural depth than our own American culture, which is fairly recent. And we were all desperate to be American, but we were surrounded by this deep culture. And the aspect of this deep culture that affected me most personally was of course the music which I wasn't even listening to, but it was just seeping by osmosis into my DNA. And why this is important to me is because Arabic music has these features, these rhythmic features that are parallel to another kind of music that is rather popular called reggae. And these features are. That's a bit technical for your non musician listeners. The emphasis on the third beat of the bar. Take a four four rhythm. One, two, three, three, four. One, two. Okay, instead of in American rock music. One, two, three, four. Well, in Arabic music it's on 3D. Three, four, three, four. One, 2, 3, 4. Which, which is similar, you know, kind of similar to reggae. And also the elimination of 1 2, 342 3, you know, and the upchicks. So that in 1977 when in the punk clubs of Lond, when the DJs had no chill punk music to play, because that doesn't exist sans existence, you know, chill punk, there are no such thing. So what the DJs would do would be to play dub reggae, which was chill but still suitably hostile, to maintain the anger of the punks even while chilling. And so all of us skinny white boys were introduced to this bass acords reggae rhythm with the. And all of us from Topper Headon and the Clash and me and all the other religion. What the hell are they doing? That's not how. That's sort of. That's completely how you don't do it. But for me, it actually was already there. I already completely, in my. All my instincts, completely had that in my bones and in my internal clock, my internal sense of rhythm was. It was already there. So it came more easily to me than to the others. In fact, I could and say that the Clash, we have to give. Give credit where it's due. They were the first skinny white guys to attempt to play reggae. And they. All the other drivers, they had to slavishly listen to what the Jamaicans were doing and try and do that. But I didn't. I figured out what they were doing all wrong and all bass ackwards. But I already knew that. So I could kind of just be adjacent. So the Police was not so much reggae as reggae adjacent. I just fell right. It was real easy. I just felt. And I could not only do it, but I could take it somewhere new. I could refresh it.
- [13:00]
Stewart Copeland
Brilliantly described. How did Curved Air, another brilliant band, how did that set you up for what would be coming down the road with the Police?
- [13:10]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, actually, my education began before Curved Air with Wishbone Ash as Roie. I roded for Wishbone Ash and other groups. And then eventually I rose up the ranks. You know, this is all helped by nepotism. I was a nepo roadie because my two brothers had a music industry empire. And I started at the bottom, roading. And I learned everything about the gear, how to get it in and out of a Ford Transit truck, how to set it up on stage, where to find the plug. Then I rose up the ranks and became a tour manager, starting with one of my first turn managing gigs with Curved Air, which is where I learned even more important stuff, which is not how the gear operates, but how the band operates, the power structure, the creative tension, the, you know, who are the path passengers, who are the leaders and so on. You know, while I'm driving and. And tour managing and they're squabbling in the car, I'm learning a lot about band dynamics. And that informed the Police. Coming along musically, not so much. I played a lot of triplets. I had to forget all that when we became a fake punk band.
- [14:17]
Stewart Copeland
So let's do a little thing called like the. The Fast Five here. First record you ever bought.
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Mental Health PSA Speaker
Help.
- [14:25]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
I didn't actually buy it. A friend of mine, I was going to England from Beirut and I gave him 10 pounds Lebanese and said, get me something from England. And he brought me back help the album. I wasn't even particularly a Beatles fan, but I memorized that album.
- [14:40]
Stewart Copeland
First concert you ever went to, Jimi Hendrix.
- [14:43]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
I played shows before then as a kid in the American Embassy Beach Club, you know, the Black Knights, our high school band. But the first professional band I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix Experience at the Saville Theater, coincidentally on the night of the announcement of the Beatles manager's death. Very strange. It turns out Paul McCartney was there that night and. And others. So the first professional band I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix Experience.
- [15:09]
Stewart Copeland
First mentor in your life, you know, Corny answer.
- [15:14]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
My dad, he was, he's very, you know, his mission in life. I was the fourth sibling and he tried to get his other. He was a kind of a pop psychiatrist. He was really into, you know, such books as how to win friends and influence people, how to raise your child's iq. All this sort of early, you know, for popular consumption psycho babble. And he was really into that. And he was. So he failed with the first three to get them interested in music. But I came along and he discovered what every parent who has musical aspirations for their child. If you have to say to your children, you know, henrietta, I think it's time for your piano practice, forget it, you're wasting your time. If instead you have to say, henrietta, will you shut up for just a minute? Okay, now, you know, you got a musician in the family. And so when my father discerned this, this irksome trait of never shutting up, he immediately got me lessons and he developed a technique which you probably got from the psych pop psychology books of inspiring without, you know, you've got to, you know, compliments from parents have to be very finely calibrated. And I've learned this with my own kids. You can't just say everything's brilliant. It has to be tempered with some reality because otherwise the kid doesn't believe it. And it's just dad telling me I'm great, you know. So he was both challenging and encouraging, which is a knife's edge. You know, these are parenting techniques that, you know, obviously I was the fourth kid they were getting, you know, as with my kids, I got seven. I think I got it semi figured out by child seven. Our youngest child is the. The best educated, well adapted, you know, remember that? She, she was born learning everything her siblings had to learn. And so by the time I came along, my dad was a little bit better at it.
- [17:18]
Stewart Copeland
First drum kit you ever bought?
- [17:21]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, the first drum was a lafema Snare drum, which I believe is a German brand. I've got a picture of me playing it. But the first drum set I had was actually rented my dad, after all of his failures with the other. So he wasn't about to buy a drum set, so he rented me one from the music store. And so my first drum set was rented.
- [17:41]
Stewart Copeland
First artist you ever became obsessed with.
- [17:44]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Jimi Hendrix.
- [17:45]
Stewart Copeland
There you go, back to Jimmy.
- [17:47]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
You know, I was raised, you know, to be a jazz musician by my daddy. And as much as I loved and respect and was inspired by my daddy, that the jazz just kind of, you know, I liked it. Buddy Rich. What's. What's not to love? And my mother, meanwhile, was listening to Stravinsky and Debussy and all the impressionists, the 20th century composers. And for that, I would turn out the lights and go places in my mind while listening to Rites of Spring. And then one day when I was about 16, arrived Jimi Hendrix, which just completely upset the apple cart. And that was it for trombones. That wasn't quite it for Stravinsky because I still just emotionally was, you know, was lit up by that and Carl Orff as well, but at the guitar just came and blasted everything out. But the combination of Mitch Mitchell on drums, because I was already into drums by that time, and I couldn't, you know, the problem was, you know, this is one of the difficulties of my life. What's the pain that I must endure surviving my childhood is that I just could not resolve this crushing issue of do I want to fantasize about being the drummer or the guitarist, you know, and you can't do both. I couldn't think, you know, so that was a trauma that I had to live with during my adolescent years. We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [19:12]
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- [19:42]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unlike unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the
- [19:57]
Superhuman Podcast Athlete
athletes for a full year within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [20:05]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:12]
Stewart Copeland
You can have opinions, you can have
- [20:15]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
like a strong stance, and then there's your body having its own program.
- [20:22]
Dr. Maya Shankar
I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation.
- [20:40]
Sleep Number Advertiser
There is one finding that is consistent and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships.
- [20:47]
Radio 831 Hosts
I wish that I hadn't resisted for
- [20:50]
Dr. Maya Shankar
so long the need to change.
- [20:52]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.
- [20:58]
Dr. Maya Shankar
Listen to A Slight Change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:07]
Deeply Well Podcast Narrator
The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This mental health awareness month. Tune into the podcast Deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well being and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected,
- [21:44]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
we're becoming more individualized.
- [21:47]
Deeply Well Podcast Narrator
But we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [22:11]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [22:14]
Stewart Copeland
So you must have an incredibly endless Mount Rushmore of drummers that you look at and respect.
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Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although having grown up, I, I can see, you know, I. They're all human now. Buddy Rich is actually, even though I'm not a big, big band jazz fan, he is superhuman. There are kids these days who are superhuman. I just have to. You have to have no life that takes neurodivergence to get that slick, that tech, you know, that kind of technique, you know, Joey Jordison, our rest in peace. That kid can't be normal. To get that good at stuff, you gotta not have a life. And particularly my instrument doesn't take that level of technique. You're either born with it or not. Good, great drummers are not Made. They're born that way. They've, you know, Ringo Starr didn't have chops, but he was one of the greats because the innate gift of rhythmic sensibility and Charlie Watts, the same is, you know, doesn't take a lot of flourishes, a lot of what we call them musicians call chops. Chops is just cool stuff that you can do that the other guy cannot do. And it takes practice and practice and practice and practice. Who cares? Ringo, Charlie and others, Mick Fleetwood, they just have an innate throb which is much more important. So, yes, my Mount Rushmore includes Mitch Mitchell, Buddy Rich, of course, John Bonham and Ginger Baker, I guess. But since. Since you mentioned Buddy Rich, I'm gonna have to tell you my Buddy Rich story.
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Stewart Copeland
Definitely.
- [23:54]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Which I have. I have two. Yeah. One is that. Okay. I'm at the Grammys. And backstage at the Grammys is where the real party is. That's where all, you know, they have. They have black tie dressed fillers. So when you go hang out backstage, some beautiful person sits in your seat to keep it all photogenic. So. But backstage is where it's all happening. And I'm back there and I see Buddy and he's sort of walking in my general direction. And so I'm, you know, like when you're whale watching, you try and get your boat sort of in the path of the whale where you think it's going to be. So there I'm kind of maneuvering to get into the, you know, the trajectory of where Buddy Rich is headed. And. And I realized, wait, wait a minute. He's. He's walking up to me. He's walking to me. He is addressing me personally. Words are coming out of his mouth addressed to me. And he's holding a piece of paper, and he says to me, he says, sign this. And I look and it's for his daughter, Kathy. One more time. It's the daughters who are the cause of all this great social elevation. And so I sign it, you know, my blind obeisance and you know, my struggling, urgent obeisance to the great man. I'm signing with a bit of a quiver to my autograph there. And so what brings me to the point of all this? I gave Buddy Rich my autograph. How about that? Love it. I never would have dreamed that that old bastard would be asking me for my autograph if my daddy could see me now.
- [25:24]
Stewart Copeland
That's right. And my God, he. Back in the day when he would show up on the Johnny Carson show and, you know, sit in and do his Thing and then come over to the couch. Those were some memorable moments too, you have to admit.
- [25:41]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, yeah, not only as, you know, looking at it myself. I'm a sweaty guy. I could never do that. And then come over and sit on a couch wearing a jacket and tie. Even better. You know, I don't. I can't go on stage and you know, like, okay, nowadays when I'm playing fancy with the orchestra, you know, I have a silk shirt that's extremely thin I can wear. You know, it's only kind of long sleeves and I'm not pounding through two and a half hours of rock and roll. I'm very sophisticated with an acoustic orchestra, so I can handle it. But most drummers, it's a T shirt gig.
- [26:15]
Stewart Copeland
Tell me about the joy that has come for you after the Police, where you've gotten into film scoring and opera, orchestral composition. Talk about how you get all psyched up for that and what it means to you.
- [26:31]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Well, the first time, you know, I'd always realized because my daddy told me, you know, you're not a drummer, you're a musician. You're not a musician, you're an entertainer. You're not just an entertainer. You are in show business. You know, to think outside of your little. That one cog that you represent. No, think of the whole engine. And so that was his perspective. So I've always thought as a composer, I've always had my own music. And that. That wasn't just my daddy. That's just. I was born once again born this way. I have music pumping through my head at all times when I'm walking. At least if I. If I'm not walking, it kind of slows down. And that doesn't mean to say it's any good or that anybody else will ever like it, but there. I don't ever have writer's block. This is a thing that does not exist for me. You know, I just point myself at my machines and. Or my instrument and stuff comes out, you know, that, like I say, it's not that it's any good or not, it's that it comes out. And there are other musicians that I know who are fantastic musicians, really, but they don't have that river flowing out of their brain. You know, guitarists who are incredible musicians but just can't write a song. Or, you know, violinists in the orchestra, they have incredible technique, incredible musicality, and they say, well, you know, this summer I think I'm going to write a violin concerto. No, you're not. If you had a violin Concerto. And you would have written five of them by now, not waiting for this summer, you know, it's just a gushing that is a natural thing. And so I bang stuff. And I seem to have an instinct for that with my secret sauce of the Arabic culture. But also there's this music thing. And the composer guy's completely different temperament, a completely different nature from the banging guy. You know, as a Drummer, I'm a 800 pound hairy ass silverback swinging through the trees, you know, and it's entirely instinctive. But the composers, urbane, safe with children and polite society, you know, tends towards the 50 cent words and is an entirely different character, discerning, you know, contemplative even. Not the same as the drummer guy. In fact, when commissioned to write a concerto for traps, drums and big bad orchestra, I'll compose the hell out of the drummer part and then sit behind the drums. They off. This is what I'm going to play. And it's all instinctive. The drummer guy does not think about anything. He just bangs stuff and feels the groove. The composer guy is completely different. And so I made my living as a drummer guy for a long time until one day I got a call from one Francis Ford Coppola, who asked me to come and do music for his film. This was just at the end of a nightmare police recording. The hellscape of the police recording environment, which looked just like a Caribbean tropical island with the waves gently lapping and the trees gently waving. Beautiful. They only find the ointment. It was us three assholes. It was hell on earth. And to escape from that, to the warm embrace of Francis Coppola was a big change of environment. But also I had these riffs that had been scorned by my colleagues. Not so much scorned as much as like Sting just came up with better songs, okay, more suited to the band and his singing and everything. I had like really cool vibes and stuff, but they weren't much in the way of songs. So I took that same material over to score used on this film and since you asked, got a Golden Globe nomination, a Grammy nomination for those tunes that my colleagues had scorned and spurned. So there is justice in the world. But that musical composition side began when I was asked to compose stuff. And then it was honed, you know, because the Francis experience was all art, art for art, and it's just a beautiful artistic mission. He wasn't looking to make money. It was a very cheaply made movie. He just wanted to get it off his Chest as a work of art. And I didn't know any better. But then I got a job as a television episodic TV composer. That is the boot camp of composing where you are just having to produce by quantity very specific music. Not the music that is in your heart, no, the music that is in this scene that the scene wants. It's not scary enough. Make me scared. So you do scaredy music. I need to tell the audience to be happy about this. Okay, I'll do happy music. Okay, Tell the audience that this is bad. And even though it's beautiful, you know, so you learn specificity of what music does to human emotion, which is very powerful. The relationship between drama and music is deep and profound. And I learned this specificity. But also another interesting thing that any of your musicians, listeners might be interested in is that the quantity produced quality, which is counterintuitive. The show arrives at my desk on a Tuesday. This episode, okay, bang. I send the tape out on Friday and it's got music on it, whether it's my finest hour or not. I, I can't, I haven't got time for that. I gotta ship it. There's something on the tape. They pay me money. There's music on the tape. And I discovered that under this pressure, without time to, for self doubt or judgment or anything like that, just make it, print it, ship it, mix it, print it, ship it, it, you know, and, and I realized that some of the best themes, the best three note tricks, the best, like bass lines and stuff came under the gun under that kind of pressure because you get deeper and deeper into the creative scene. You know, you just brush past any doubt or anything. And that's when you get to the best stuff.
- [32:31]
Stewart Copeland
Is it true you knew going into the Ghost in the Machine session that things were kind of starting to wrap
- [32:38]
Buzz Knight
up for the police?
- [32:39]
Stewart Copeland
Is that accurate?
- [32:41]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
It didn't take any special powers of intuition. I mean, from Zenyatta it was getting tense. And then Ghost in the Machine it was really tense. And by the time of Synchronicity we actually hit dead stop. We halted just progress. Couldn't, couldn't move forward. What are we going to do? So we were over in Montserrat in a studio built by one George Martin, the Beatles producer. And it so happened that he was in residence on the plantation right next door in his mansion there. And so he sent Andy Summers, our guitarist, to go talk to George, see if he could persuade him to come and produce us and fix, you know, break up this log jam, you know, and so Andy trundles off into the jungle, down the hill, across the creek, up the other side of the hill, through the jungle. I like to think that he had his sword slashing his way through the vines. And he gets up to George's place, who brings him in, sits him down, makes him a cup of tea and says, well, how's it going over there, lads? And Andy says, we have a problem. I'm there with these two other fucking assholes trying to make a record. Do you think he could come over and produce us? Well, George wasn't born yesterday. And he said, well, no, but here's the thing. You are three very talented lads, and I'm sure you can sort yourselves out and finish your record. And Eddie hears these words of wisdom. I can't believe what he's hearing. He leaves. He finds his way back down the hill, through the jungle, crosses the creek, climbs up the other side and. Guys, guys, guys. You're not going to believe what he said. He said we can sort ourselves out and finish the record. No shit. Really? Fuck. He said that my. Okay, okay. Sting. They make that fucking stupid song here. Count me in, baby. All right. And we did indeed finish the record right there. And. Which is a. You know. Which I guess kind of explains, you know, that's a heck of a producer there, that George Martin. Now we know why the Beatles were so big.
- [34:47]
Stewart Copeland
Lastly, I could go on, but lastly. You got a lot of things on the agenda today, I'm sure I knew. Okay, good. If you could be a therapist, a band therapist, what advice would you give to bands as they're beginning that would keep them intact as long as possible?
- [35:09]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
I've done that very many times. I have Uncle Stu, Daddy. I have often mentored to the young musicians, and mainly it's to the passengers, is let the leader lead. You like living in this big house, you may think that the band is so big that you can go off and carve a new career on your own. You can't. Lightning struck here. Stick with it. Be nice to your leader and to the leader himself, I would say, look, you probably don't need these guys. You've got the X factor that you can take it with you to your next gig. But these guys got you here. These guys are the proven formula that are why you are living in this big palace. The other guys living in big houses. The guy who, you know, the central character, Mick Jagger, is living in a palace. In fact, Stingo's living in about five different palaces. Be nice to your soldiers. Keep hold of your soldiers. And it worked for the police, by the way. You know, Andy and I were slightly more than soldiers because it was only a three piece band and the sound of the band was a big part of it as well as the songs. We would have gotten nowhere without those songs, mind you. Has to be said, but those guys are your formula that got you here and as long as you can stand it, put up with them. And that's what Sting did. He put up with us to other assholes for two albums longer than he needed to, but it set him off. When he did strike out on his own, he was a stadium actor rather than a big arena act. So it works. To hold on to your soldiers, be nice to your soldiers.
- [36:52]
Stewart Copeland
Are you going to be taking this roadshow of yours on the road and talking to people about your wonderful life and all your insights?
- [37:01]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Oh yeah. I will be crossing the land. The tour is called have I Said Too Much? And no I haven't, but I will in your town. Fantastic.
- [37:14]
Stewart Copeland
Stewart Coughlin. This has been awesome. Thanks for being on Taking a Walk. I had a frickin blast.
- [37:20]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Great. Well, thanks for listening.
- [37:23]
Buzz Knight
I'm Buzz Knight and thanks for listening to the Taking a Walk podcast. Now please check out our companion podcasts produced by Buzz Night Media Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music Music saved me. Showcasing the healing power of music and comedy saved me. Shining a light on how laughter is the best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are part of the I Heart Podcast network.
- [37:54]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
- [38:11]
Superhuman Podcast Athlete
Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [38:17]
Superhuman Podcast Narrator
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:24]
David Eagleman
There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we'll talk with singer songwriter Jewel about anxiety.
- [38:36]
Jewel
I started living in my car and then my car got stolen. I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic.
- [38:41]
David Eagleman
This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course. Listen to intercosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:56]
Interviewer (possibly Buzz Knight or a co-host)
Now everybody over here. Oh, it's one of my other favorite places, the Twilight Gazebo. Sunset Gardens Twilight Gazebo what's next?
- [39:07]
Stewart Copeland
Dead Man's Grove?
- [39:08]
Deeply Well Podcast Narrator
Mom, could you please try to be a little bit positive about this?
- [39:13]
iHeart Podcast Announcer
From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Black Ish, comes Big Age, an Audible original about finding your way in life's next chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation to Sunset Gardens, a Floridian senior community that is anything but relaxing. Starring comedy legends Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer and Niecy Nash Betts through its blend of outrageous comedy, Tea Party anyone? And touching revelations, Big Age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. Go to audible.com bigageseries to start listening today.
- [39:53]
Radio 831 Hosts
Why are we all so obsessed with romance? Romance novels, celebrity couples, book to screen chaos? What does it all reveal about the way we love, date, desire and obsess on Radio 831? Join us, Sanjana Bhasker and Tyler McCall as we break down the romance topics of the day with new takes, sharp guests and serious genre fluency. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast starting on May 7th on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.