Inside the creative journey of the Billy Joel Documentary "And So it Goes" with Steve Cohen

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Inside the Creative Journey of the Billy Joel Documentary 'And So It Goes' with Steve Cohen"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Takin' a Walk
• Host: Buzz Knight (iHeartPodcasts)
• Episode: Inside the Creative Journey of the Billy Joel Documentary "And So It Goes" with Steve Cohen
• Release Date: July 27, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Takin' a Walk," host Buzz Knight delves deep into the making of the HBO documentary "Billy Joel: And So It Goes". Joining him is Steve Cohen, Billy Joel's longtime Creative Director and the executive producer of the documentary. The episode offers an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at the documentary’s development, the collaborative relationship between Steve and Billy Joel, and the intricate process of capturing Joel's illustrious career on film.

Guest Introduction

[02:53]
Buzz Knight: "Good morning Steve, I'm honored to have you on the Taking a Walk podcast."

Steve Cohen: "Thank you very much."

Billy Joel and Steve Cohen: A Collaborative Journey

[03:11] Creating the Documentary

Steve Cohen recounts his longstanding partnership with Billy Joel, highlighting their collaboration over various projects. He humorously notes that despite the podcast title, their actual walks together were minimal, often limited to the distance from the car to the backstage area.

[03:42]
Steve Cohen: "He really didn't want to see anything until he thought that we felt it was right for him to do that... when he wanted to sit down and do it."

[04:05]
Steve describes the emotional experience of watching the documentary with Billy Joel for the first time:
"Looking out of the corner of my eye, watching him watch this film was a little bit unnerving... he leaned in to the television a couple of times and ... he said, 'It's a great movie, even if it wasn't about me.' So that's sort of the best compliment you could get from an artist."

Overcoming Resistance to Create the Documentary

[06:12]
Buzz praises the documentary and inquires about what finally convinced Billy Joel to participate after years of reluctance.

Steve responds:
"He had his standard line was always, 'My life story is in my songs. Listen to my songs, and everything you need to know about me.' ... I think at some point he just made the turn and said, 'Let's do it.'... He's very happy right now. He's got a wonderful family... maybe wanting to lay down a legacy for them."

Utilizing Archival Footage

[07:59]
Steve explains the extensive process of gathering archival footage for the documentary, despite Billy Joel's reservations about being filmed. He highlights the surprising abundance of material found in both Billy's personal archives and Sony's vast collection.

Steve Cohen:
"We had a group of people that we called, we affectionately called the Mind Hive... they were a great resource. So it was a process... now is a pretty comprehensive archive for Billy, you know, going forward. There's a museum full of stuff now."

Highlighting Philadelphia’s Significance

[09:43]
Steve discusses the pivotal role Philadelphia played in Billy Joel's career, particularly through the support from radio station WMMR and personality Ed Shockey.

[10:08]
Steve Cohen:
"Philadelphia was a key, pivotal moment in Billy's career. So it had to be covered."

The documentary captures the essence of Joel’s performances in Philadelphia, showcasing some of his best shows at the Academy of Music, where he expanded his sets and connected deeply with the audience.

Music Selection for the Documentary

[10:46]
Buzz notes the inclusion of over 120 Billy Joel songs in the film, prompting Steve to explain the meticulous selection process.

[10:57]
Steve Cohen:
"We implored Universal Music Publishing and Sony to create a structure where all of the music could be used if desired. The filmmakers used 99% of Billy Joel’s music, including instrumental versions and rare B and C tracks that enhance the soundtrack."

This comprehensive approach ensured that the documentary not only tells Billy's story but also immerses the audience in his musical genius.

Revealing the Pressures and Joys of a Long Music Career

[12:23]
Buzz asks Steve about what the project reveals regarding the challenges and rewards of a lengthy career in music for both Billy Joel and himself.

Steve Cohen:
"It reveals this unique combination of life experiences and the creation of a genius. Billy is like a diamond, created under intense pressure and experiences that gave birth to his incredible narrative of songs."

He emphasizes how the documentary sheds light on lesser-known aspects of Joel's life, including his early years, relationships, and influences, offering a deeper understanding of the man behind the music.

Closing Remarks and Billy Joel’s Current Well-being

[14:19]
Buzz extends well wishes to Billy Joel on behalf of the listeners, expressing love and support.

[14:36]
Steve Cohen:
"He's doing pretty good. There's a viral clip of him in New York singing 'New York State of Mind'... he's enjoying life and working on getting better."

Steve shares uplifting news about Billy's current activities, indicating that Joel remains active and positive, contributing to his enduring legacy.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt thanks and encouragement for listeners to support the documentary.

[15:08]
Podcast Announcer:
"Steve, Bravo. And so it goes on HBO. Thank you so much for all you give us."

Steve Cohen:
"Thank you very much. Buzz, great talking to you."

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Takin' a Walk" offers an intimate glimpse into the creation of "Billy Joel: And So It Goes," highlighting Steve Cohen's pivotal role in bringing Billy Joel's story to the screen. From overcoming Joel's initial reluctance to participate, meticulously curating archival footage, and selecting an extensive music catalog, the documentary emerges as a heartfelt tribute to one of music's enduring icons. Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for Billy Joel's artistry and the collaborative efforts that immortalize his legacy.

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Cohen at [03:42]:
  "It's a great movie, even if it wasn't about me. So that's sort of the best compliment you could get from an artist."

• Steve Cohen at [12:23]:
  "Billy is very much the product of this beautiful, brilliant, shining diamond from pressure and intense pain and intense experiences that gave birth to this narrative of songs that we're blessed with."

• Steve Cohen at [10:57]:
  "We created a landing strip for them to be able to use as much as they wanted... there are songs, there's bits and pieces of B and C tracks that never get a big part of the soundtrack."

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Availability:
"Takin' a Walk" is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with fellow music enthusiasts and follow the podcast to stay updated on future episodes.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

Taking a Walk.

[Buzz Knight]

Join us for a musical journey like no other today on the Taking a Walk podcast. I'm Buzz Knight, your host and we're joined by Steve Cohen, longtime Creative Director for Billy Joel and executive producer of the new HBO documentary Billy Joel. And so it Goes. So whether you're a lifelong fan of the Piano man or curious about the highs and lows behind the hits, Steve brings exclusive behind the scenes insights about the crafting of this two part film coming up next.

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This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Podcast Host]

Taking a walk?

[Podcast Announcer]

Good morning Steve, I'm honored to have you on the Taking a Walk podcast.

[Steve Cohen]

Thank you very much.

[Podcast Announcer]

I imagine you've taken walks over your lifetime with Billy Joel. Can you describe that experience, taking walks with Billy?

[Steve Cohen]

I think most of the time we were in various means of conveyance. I think walking from the car to the backstage is about as far as we end up walking together. But we have traveled a lot of miles together, that's for sure.

[Podcast Announcer]

The documentary is just fantastic. And so it goes. I have to ask you, was there a point in time that you finally, with the final cut, sat with Billy and watched the entire thing from beginning to end?

[Steve Cohen]

That's exactly what happened, actually. So you must have got some inside information. Basically, he. He really didn't want to see anything until he thought that we felt it was right for him to do that. The director, Susan Lacy and Jessica Levin, sort of left it up to me to sort of feel Billy's willingness and interest in when he wanted to sit down and do it. I basically waited until we got to a place where it wasn't in a final cut form, but the narrative was nailed down and the music selections were nailed down, and most of the visuals were in place, even if some of them were temporary. And, I don't know, one afternoon I said, well, listen, I've got both parts. You want to watch it? And he came over and it was just him and me sitting on a couch. And I will tell you, looking out of the corner of my eye, watching him watch this film was a little bit unnerving. There's a lot in this film that, you know, I didn't know how he would react to, you know, emotionally. You know, he set this thing up from the beginning by telling, you know, the. The filmmakers that, you know, he really didn't want to tell his story, that he just hoped that they would be hon. And sort of instructed them to tell the truth. And they did, and they got him to comment on some. Some great stuff and some great memories, but also some uncomfortable ones. So, yeah, I was. I was a bit relieved. He leaned in to the. To the. To the television a couple of times and I watched him. And then afterwards he said, well, I gotta say, it's a. There. It's a great movie, even if it wasn't about me. So that's sort of the best compliment you could get from an artist.

[Podcast Announcer]

My God, I don't picture you as a chain smoker, but did you consider taking up chain smoking as you were sitting?

[Steve Cohen]

We both were chain smokers. I mean, he had his little vape with him. So I. He was. He was puffing pretty good on it, but, yeah, I. It was a little bit of nail biting. You know, it's. It's interesting because Billy and I, you know, we go back five decades, and as. As. As good friends and collaborators we've been for, you know, all of that time. You know, it's. It's daunting when you're tasked with the responsibility of putting together a team to tell this guy's story, and you never know. He could have thrown furniture. I don't know.

[Podcast Announcer]

After so much resistance over the years of Billy wanting to do this, what tipped the scales in getting him to say yes?

[Steve Cohen]

You know, I don't think we ever address that specifically. What I do know is that we had many offers over the years. He had many offers over the years to do a biography, a biopic, whatever you want to call this, this day and age of a celebrity telling their life story, and wasn't interested. His. His. His standard line was always, you know, my. My. My life story is in my songs. Listen to my songs, and, you know, everything you need to know about me. But I think at. At some point, we were winding down the Madison Square Garden run. We knew that that was coming to an end. You know, the future of touring was, you know, sort of laid out there. And. And I think at some point he just made the turn and said, you know what? There seems to be an interest in. In. In my life. These filmmakers are the right filmmakers. HBO is the right network. You know, let's. Let's do it. And. And I don't think that he specifically, you know, flipped a switch, but I think it was an evolution of just being comfortable to, you know, let that part of his story out. He's very happy right now. He's got a wonderful family. He's got two young kids. And I think that there might be something there about wanting to, you know, lay down a legacy for them. But I'm only guessing. I really. I really don't. I really don't know the inner workings of what the decision. What made him make the decision to say yes.

[Podcast Announcer]

Talk about the use of archival footage, which is just so incredible and rare performances that are part of this gem. What was the process in selecting.

[Steve Cohen]

Well, it was kind of surprising for me. You know, as I said, you know, being around for this long a time, it's a little bit shady about how much was actually covered over the years. You know, we weren't the kind of band or artists or group that you know, had everybody rolling cameras, of course, you know, long before iPhones and, and recording devices were so easy to carry around. So there wasn't a lot, you know, there wasn't a lot of that kind of footage of, you know, fly on the wall kind of stuff. A lot of home movies, very, very few home movies. And, you know, Billy was loath to be put on camera anyway. He didn't like being filmed, he didn't like being, you know, pictures taken. So, so I think I was very. The big surprise for me was how much there was. There was a lot over the years collected by a lot. So it was going through Billy's archives, it was going through Sony's archives, which was vast. And we had a group of people that we called, we affectionately called the Mind Hive, which are a few, three, really, four really incredible Billy Joel fans that have been collecting memorabilia for the past, you know, 25, 30 years. And they were a great resource. So, you know, it was, you know, as the narrative developed, then the visual explanations of those pieces of the narrative became, you know, identified. And then you'd say, well, you'd really love to have a picture of this particular interaction. And you'd find it. And sometimes you'd find 10 or 15, sometimes you'd only find one. So it was a process. And what we're left with now is a pretty comprehensive archive for Billy, you know, going forward. There's a museum that, there's a museum full of stuff now.

[Podcast Announcer]

I particularly loved how the Philadelphia experience was covered because in my past life, one of the stations I managed was wmmr and it was just so great. Ed Shockey, who, who did part time work for me for a while, and just the integral part of Ed and the station and just how that came together that was told so wonderfully in.

[Steve Cohen]

The documentary, well, that's really, you know, that's gratifying. Look, Philadelphia for the Billy Joel world was very important. For many years we did, you know, I remember doing shows at the Academy of Music in Philadelphia very early on that were some of the best shows he ever did. They would expand to like three hours and he would do impressions and do covers. And it was really a very comfortable venue. And you know, Philadelphia was one of the main cities where he broke in popularity obviously because of Ed and WMMR and the Captain Jack thing. So it was a very, it was a key, pivotal moment in Billy's career. So it had to be covered.

[Podcast Announcer]

The film features over 120 Billy Joel songs. How did you approach the selection of the music Catalog and weaving that in.

[Steve Cohen]

Well, my approach was simply to go, you know, through the Billy Joel, through us and the Billy Joel camp, and go to Universal and Sony and implore them to create a structure where the filmmakers could use as much as they wanted. You know, in many cases, licensing is very expensive in a lot of cases, and it becomes restrictive from the creative side. So what we did in our world was go to our partners, Universal Music Publishing and Sony, and implore them to just, you know, create a structure where all of the music could be used if it wanted to. And Susan Lacey and Jessica Levin both made it very, very clear that they were going to use 99% of the music in this film was going to be Billy Joel music. And we went in and had instrumental version, stripped out some vocals of some of the recorded tracks to use it as score, because, you know, that's. It's all in. It's all in the music, as he says many, many times. So we created a landing strip for them to be able to use as much as they wanted. And I'm so glad they did. There's songs, there's bits and pieces of. Of. Of B and C. C tracks that are. That never get. Are a big part of the soundtrack.

[Podcast Announcer]

Steve, what do you think the project reveals about the pressures and the joys of a long career in music, both for Billy and for yourself?

[Steve Cohen]

I think it reveals this unique combination of life experiences and the creation of a genius. I think I had an analogy that I used with Susan a long time ago about a diamond, that a diamond is created under intense pressure and intense heat. And I believe that, know, out of coal and. And I believe. Or carbon atoms. And I believe that Billy is very much the product of this beautiful, brilliant, shining diamond from, you know, pressure and intense pain and intense experiences that, you know, gave birth to this narrative of songs that we're blessed with. So I think that. I think that what. What Susan and Jessica have done is point the viewer towards the origin of the creative spark that exists in all great artists, but in Billy's case, is sometimes underappreciated or under reported. And I think you're going to listen to these songs after you hear the true backstories of many of them and hear them in a completely different manner, which I think is great. Like, these songs we know for 40 years all of a sudden are going to sound different to us because we know the backstory. So I think that that's what the. What I hope the film reveals. The other thing I hope the film reveals is you know, unknown parts of Billy's story that have never been reported. The very, the very or never been really spoken about. The, the early years to his relationship with his first wife, Elizabeth, and how she became so important to the creation of the Billy Joel story, the inspiration for a lot of those songs and his, his relationship with his father or lack of, and the Holocaust backstory. So I think those three things are very important and classical music being a prime driver in his creative process.

[Podcast Announcer]

Steve, in closing, I don't know what you could say about Billy's, how he's feeling these days, but I just want to extend from all of the Taking a Walk listeners and the fans of Billy that he's on our mind and we love him and I hope he's doing well.

[Steve Cohen]

Well, last time I spoke to him, he's doing pretty good. I think. There's a viral clip of him in, in New York with some people on a pedicap singing New York State of Mind. And he, you know, interacts with them. He just, he just kind of peeked onto the Bill Maher podcast the other day. So, you know, he's looking good and he's, you know, he's taking a walk. He's definitely doing his physical therapy and stuff. So, you know, I think he's enjoying life and he's working at, you know, getting better. So. But yeah, thank you. I'm sure everybody wants to send those good vibes. I'm sure the good vibes are helping.

[Podcast Announcer]

Give him our love. Steve, Bravo. And so it goes on hbo. Thank you so much for all you give us.

[Steve Cohen]

Thank you very much. Buz, great talking to you.

[Podcast Host]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

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