← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Inside the genius of Richard Manuel with Author Stephen T Lewis
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- [00:00]
Lester Holt
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Tom Brokaw
NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw. We hope to see you back here.
- [00:10]
Lester Holt
I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamas is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a constant and from one era to the next. Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom yamas evenings on NBC.
- [00:34]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [01:05]
Buzz Knight
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- [01:06]
Lester Holt
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Buzz Knight
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- [02:03]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Pringles, Ritz crackers and chips, sliced soda, Wonder Buns and bread and Natural Choice lunch meat. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [02:34]
Buzz Knight
Taking a walk when you listen to.
- [02:36]
Lester Holt
Richard a lot, you know, like anything like a fingerprint, there's things you feel that like are his, you know, trademark roles or little chord changes or little, little melodic plays that he would use and you hear it and you're like, wow. You can't tell. You're like, whose song is this? Because it certainly sounds like Richard's.
- [02:56]
Tom Brokaw
I'm Buzz Knight, your host of Taking a Walk.
- [02:58]
Stephen T. Lewis
This is the podcast where we stroll.
- [03:01]
Tom Brokaw
Through the stories behind music, creativity, and.
- [03:04]
Stephen T. Lewis
The people who shape our culture today.
- [03:08]
Tom Brokaw
We're going to have on the acclaimed author Stephen T. Lewis. He's got a biography that shines a long overdue spotlight on one of rock's most soulful and enigmatic voices, Richard Manuel of the band. Known for his haunting falsetto, heartfelt songwriting, and unforgettable performances, Richard Manuel helped define the sound of an era. But his personal story has often remained in the shadows. Stephen T. Lewis spent four years delving into Manuel's life, interviewing friends, family, and musical legends and unearthing rare photos and stories that reveal the man behind the music. In this episode, we're going to explore what drew Stephen to Manuel's story, the challenges and joys of capturing the a complex legacy, and why Richard's music continues to resonate with fans and musicians alike. We welcome right now Stephen T. Lewis to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [04:16]
Stephen T. Lewis
Well, it's nice to sync up with Stephen T. Lewis on the Taking a Walk podcast talking about the amazing Richard Manuel biography. Thanks for being on.
- [04:26]
Lester Holt
Oh, thanks for having me as your guest. I certainly appreciate it.
- [04:29]
Stephen T. Lewis
So I do start out the podcast because it's taken a walk. Asking the question, if someone could take a walk with someone living or dead, who might it be? I believe I know this answer, but let me ask it anyway.
- [04:50]
Lester Holt
Well, I think I know you're correct in your assumption. It would definitely be be Richard. And especially delving deep into his life and the people that loved him and the people that played music with him. Nothing has changed in that way. And I can only hope that he would be honored, but probably a little embarrassed about having a book done about him. But it would be a joy to take a walk with him somewhere in Woodstock or Stratford, Ontario.
- [05:19]
Stephen T. Lewis
Yeah, you highlight certainly all aspects of his life, but we'll talk about in particular the. The Stratford, Ontario pieces as well. But I want to talk about the genesis and the motivation for the book first. What was it about Richard that compelled you to devote four years of researching and writing his biography? Especially, you know, when every member of the band certainly has a compelling story.
- [05:51]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And to your point, they all are equal of a story because that's what made them great. But to go back, like anybody, I think my first view of Richard was the last Waltz. And admittedly, through his own words, he wasn't in the greatest of condition at that point, but watching that film and being the kind of rock geek I am, something clicked where other musicians, whether it be Eric Clapton or George Harris, something clicked where I'm like, there's something about this guy that's different from other music that I've been listening to or, you know, that's been shown to me. So I think the seed was planted there. And this was, you know, when I was probably a teenager. And then as I started to use my website as a repository for the music that I love, and whether it's a bootleg or an album, I kept coming back to the band. And Richard, obviously was. Was one of my musical idols. And I kept coming back to Richard. And when I saw the film, I believe it was in 2019, Robbie Robertson's once Were Brothers, I got the same feeling that I saw that I had when I saw the Last Waltz. I was like, there's got to be more to Richard. There's. There has to be. You know, And I had been. In the intervening years, you know, I'd listened to so much band music and done research, read Levon's book, Robbie's book, Barney Hoskins book. And I was like, man, there's got to be more to this guy. And because that's what I do, I go on the deep dive. And I started to find that there was a lot and that he was responsible for so much. And I wanted to dispel that narrative that was created by the Last Waltz and which is one of my favorite films, like Everybody, I mean, definitive. But I thought that I could shine a brighter light on Richard and his contributions, which I didn't think get the full spectrum in that film. And once I started digging and talking to people, especially up in his hometown, I just. There was a lot more, and it just started to pop up. And I started to collect information in a meaningful way and compile it with the stuff I'd heard. And then it just started getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
- [08:12]
Stephen T. Lewis
This is your first foray into writing a book so deeply, you know, just thorough, correct?
- [08:20]
Lester Holt
I mean, yes, again, I. I kind of focused. I would do, you know, focused pieces on. On certain things that I loved. But admittedly, the Richard story, I. I had told people and my wife, I was like, you know, maybe I'll do a series of pieces on my website, the spotlight different parts of his life, and like, well, I'm going to self publish a book because I had so much Material. And then I was working with a local editor and she said, you got to put a proposal together here. This deserves more than just what you're thinking, whether a blog piece or you putting together a self published book, which I would still do, but we wanted the right presentation, we wanted the right care taken that I probably couldn't provide the book, doing it all on my own. And once we did that and Schiffer Books came back and said we would love to publish this book. And I, I had seen other pieces they had done with some of their other authors and just the high craft, beautiful way that they put their books together. I, I thought this is what Richard deserves. And it ended up working out for the best. And then, you know, here we are. Yeah.
- [09:34]
Stephen T. Lewis
I have to say for anybody who loves rock music and loves, you know, biographies and deep dive takes on rock musicians, musicians of any type, but particular rock, and then, you know, going deeper into the world of Bob Dylan and the band and you're in love with, you know, those aspects. The book is so beautifully put together. The, you know, just the look of it, the photos are rich. Every aspect of it really is beautifully done. So it, it's one of the best that, you know, I've ever taken a look at and I can't put it down.
- [10:16]
Lester Holt
I certainly certainly appreciate that and Buzz I have to give full, full credit to. It's a testament to how many people loved Richard is all the photographers and family members who graciously gave images and contributed to that, to this, help tell the story and then, you know, putting it all together with, with the words and then the presentation, like you said, by, by the design for it all, you know, like the band, all the components kind of came together to, to build something that was, that was greater than some of its parts.
- [10:47]
Stephen T. Lewis
I think one of the amazing things about the band when they broke on the scene that I remember was the fact that they were this band that we really couldn't categorize. We didn't really know what, you know, box, if you will, to put them in, they were just so unique in their sound and that was one of the driving forces. And then the more we all learned about them, you know, in terms of their deep connection with Bob Dylan. And then of course before that, you know, the Hawks, they, they were a band that we were really fixated on, you know, back certainly from the beginning because you couldn't put a category on them really. Yeah.
- [11:36]
Lester Holt
And for a period of time no one knew even who they were, you know, and making that connection oh, these were the guys that were on stage with Dylan, you know. And I think part of the mystery was part of the attraction, but also the music that came out of this, you know, was. You can see the way rock went after their debut album after Music from Big Pink. It's like it was such a specialized form of music from all of the diverse influences from each member that it just, it took everything and moved it another direction, which I've always just found completely fascinating.
- [12:13]
Stephen T. Lewis
I'm grateful for the fact I got to see those boys on three different occasions, which were all very different. In that regard, I have to ask you, as someone, as a fan and then someone who's written this great book, that must make you. I sense you didn't get to see them play and that fact must make you crazy that you never got to experience it.
- [12:39]
Lester Holt
No, you're completely right. And that's, I think part of the reason why I, I do these, these in depth analysis analyses of, of the available recordings and field recordings. I mean that's just something I really, really enjoy, no matter who it is. But with, with this piece in particular, going back to the earliest Revels performance through the Hawks, through the band, and watching Richard's arc becoming this and trying to put yourself in that place, you know, through the vibes of the tape, putting headphones on, even if there it's the poorest sounding recording and trying to get to that, that magic, you know, through, through sonics. And that was a big part of the book was. Was because there wasn't a lot available interview wise from Richard or, you know, just not a lot of material official. It was nice to go in and really find some of these things or little onstage things and just stuff like that and pulling it all together. That was really a joyful part of the process for me.
- [13:45]
Stephen T. Lewis
Among the many things that I learned for the first time. I didn't know of the nickname the.
- [13:51]
Lester Holt
Beak and that's, that's Stratford, you know. And right up until he played, Richard played with, with the reunited band at the end of 85, when he went home and played, you know, that was one of the things you can hear the crowd yelling for Beak. And it's just. I had. That had to be a. Just a towering achievement and fine moment for someone, you know, is sensitive and his feeling is Richard to go home triumphant and have his old, you know, his old nickname being yelled at him by teachers, friends, family. And I feel like that was a really, really cool, cool moment for Richard. And as you saw, there's a Couple pictures from that night, which I just treasure because you can just tell he's glowing in those, in those photos, you know.
- [14:36]
Stephen T. Lewis
Yeah, you really laid that out beautifully. So you interviewed tons of family, friends and then some amazing legendary musicians such as Eric Clapton and Van Morrison. What was the most surprising or moving story that you heard during your research?
- [14:56]
Lester Holt
Well, as far as something that really struck me emotionally was speaking to Eric and Eric being so insightful on the, on the kind of the parallel paths that they, Richard and himself, they travel together. You know, Richard unfortunately didn't make it out. Eric almost didn't make it out. And he really kind of laid it out for me to kind of understand where Richard was coming from musically and emotionally and the things he was dealing with. And really, I can honestly say I don't think anybody else could really get to that point. And I just feel like some of Eric's contributions are just very insightful in understanding where Richard, Richard was at certain points and where he was going. And now as far as surprising, it was Richard was the best blues singer around in, in pre band, I'm talking Rebels and Hawks and I knew that there was more from that era. But talking to friends, family, people that saw the Hawks, this guy was like something and you've, you've probably heard where Levon was like, you know, he was our lead singer and he show to himself like that was no joke. And that I really find one of the more exciting parts and the things I love about compiling Richard's story is this guy was authentic, he was real and he could sing the blues. As you know, an 18 year old kid coming from Canada and you know this as a music fan buzz. To be able to, to be able to sing the blues authentically, you've got to have something there people can, can spot if you're not doing it right, you know. And the story of him and the Rebels going down to, to Arkansas to Ronnie's club and playing for people that were used to hearing real blues music and hit Richard blowing them away. And that I thought was, was really excellent and a real good statement of how vital he was. And even though the Hawks weren't, weren't popular, they were well respected and you can kind of see why they took the path they did based on those early shows.
- [17:16]
Stephen T. Lewis
How about the Van Morrison conversation?
- [17:18]
Lester Holt
So I spoke with Eric. Van was, it was, he was accommodating. We, we corresponded through email and it was, I turned the book in to the publisher because I'd been trying for a couple years to get Van And. And, I mean, the day after vans, people are like, we've got your questions. We've looked them over. Van's going to answer them. I'm like, yes, yes. So Schiffer allowed me to. To assimilate that stuff in. Back in. And same thing. You know, you can just tell these guys really respected each other and they had great love for Richard. And I'm just thankful for both of those guys for not only adding validity to his story, but just showing how important he was to the. The band's contemporaries.
- [18:07]
Stephen T. Lewis
The Dylan pieces are, you know, obviously such an integral part on so many. So many levels. Especially when Bob was kind of, you know, scouting out the fact that he would be, you know, working with Richard and the boys. I was surprised. Back then, Dylan was flying a private plane up to Toronto.
- [18:29]
Lester Holt
Yeah, private.
- [18:31]
Stephen T. Lewis
Private, even then. And just how that all evolved. Can you talk about that? How, you know, it suddenly came together that, you know, Bob kind of sought him out and wanted him.
- [18:43]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And it's weird how all those things, you know, the series of coincidences and connections and first off, I have to say, I just think another aspect of Richard's story, which is amazing is, you know, he made his mark with his voice and he had no problem just being the piano player once they hooked up with Dylan. And, you know, for a guy, you know, I mean, no ego there at all. It's like, we're gonna. We just got done backing Ronnie Hawkins. Now we're gonna go back a folk singer. Richard's like, sure, let's go. What do we gotta do? You know? And I just think that's a really cool part of his story. And. But, you know, you have to take into account John Hammond, who had seen Richard singing the blues in Canada, and obviously the Hawks play in the blues authentically, and his connection with Dylan. And then Mary Martin, who worked for Albert Grossman and saw the Hawks in Toronto. Her getting in Dylan's ear constantly once he started looking for an electric band, these guys, these guys. And Dylan said in Rolling Stone at one point, he's like, she just wouldn't stop. She's like, you've got to see these guys know. So finally, Dylan's like, okay. So it started out as being Robbie and Levon, because after Dylan went electric at Newport and he wanted to take the band on the road, Butterfield Blues Band was not gonna. They weren't gonna take that. You know, they had their own thing going on. And it came around. They did two shows, Forest Hills and Hollywood bowl, with Robbie and Levon and then when they came back, you know, and they both say this in their respective memoirs, you got to take all of us if you want to fall, but you've got to take. We're a team here. And to your point, Dylan went up there after they did a late night at the Friars Club. They'd done, you know, six hours, three set, whatever they did at that night, and into the late hours, they tried to get it together. And from all accounts, you know, it was a little difficult. I mean, you got a solo strummer not playing electric music on stage. And then you've got a band that's like practiced and tighten down, you know, bank vault tight and trying to get these, these disparate elements to work together. And it ended up happening. And I used a quote that I, I had found in a newspaper in Toronto after Dylan left, where he makes the comment that, you know, I don't know what my sound is now, but I think I've found it.
- [21:11]
Stephen T. Lewis
Yeah.
- [21:12]
Lester Holt
And it's like, right, well, who else is he talking about? He's just, just left rehearsals with the Hawks. You know, I just think that's really cool. Even he knew this is, this is, this is it.
- [21:22]
Stephen T. Lewis
To your point, on Richard's generosity of an open mindedness too, then there was the period certainly where Levon was not the drummer during some work. And Richard's just like, okay, I'll, I'll pitch in.
- [21:37]
Lester Holt
Yeah, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be the drummer. And it's funny because I talked to a couple classmates in Stratford and they're like, you know, we, we were playing in, in the Kal Muskie basement. Ken Kamuski, for those who don't know, the bass player of Richard's first ban. Richard would hop on the drums once in a while, you know, but in typical Richard fashion, it wasn't anything flashy. Just do his thing. I mean, nobody even knew that he played lap steel until he started playing it in front of people. So it's funny, he selfless in so many ways, but musically completely selfless. You know, whatever it would take to take the song to the next level. And again, like we talked about earlier, any of the band guys you could apply that to, but Richard especially so that, you know, he would take his, whatever his strengths were, it didn't matter. He would just do whatever the song or the songwriter required. And I think that's part of what made him a special guy.
- [22:36]
Stephen T. Lewis
How did your trips to, to Stratford and your work in the, the Stratford Perth Archive Shape your understanding of Richard's early years.
- [22:46]
Lester Holt
That was amazing because I felt like I felt kind of a kinship with Stratford, and everyone there was so welcoming, especially Richard's family. And it seemed like every time I talked to someone, they'd be like, hey, have you talked to this person? And there's still folks around there. I mean, the guy's a local legend, you know, And I really. It was important to me to really focus on how important and how the artistic ambience of Stratford shaped Richard, shaped maybe his dramaticism, shaped the way he interacted with friends and musicians and, you know, like anybody where you grow up, it's part of your, you know, you internalize that stuff. And at the archives, everyone there was absolutely amazing. They knew what I was doing, and I made it clear that this was going to be a tribute. And they open arms, you know, whatever you need. I made four or five trips up there post pandemic because obviously when I really wanted to get up there in the early stages of the book, I could not. And so I went up there a few times, and Richard's sister in law, Catherine, instrumental in not only protecting the family legacy and, you know, making sure that I was doing the right thing the whole way. I needed to make sure the family knew what I was doing. And this was for me. This wasn't for anyone else. You know, if someone was writing a story about my father or someone, I'd want to know what are the intentions for this? And I wanted to make it clear to everyone I talked to in Stratford, this is a tribute and a focus, not a whitewash, because there's an elephant in the room that you have to talk about when you're talking a story like this. But the focus was on the music and the biography kind of went around that, if that makes sense, you know, but everybody up there that I met was just kind and everybody had a story about Richard. It was funny. I'd be walking the streets to see where they used to rehearse the revels. And more than once I met someone and they'd be like, oh, yeah, I saw Richard, you know, playing on a flatbed over at Queen's park. And it was just like all these little tidbits were available. So it was cool to go to the source. We'll be right back with more of.
- [25:05]
Unknown
The Taking a Walk podcast.
- [25:08]
Tom Brokaw
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- [25:59]
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- [26:31]
Buzz Knight
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- [28:58]
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [29:01]
Stephen T. Lewis
I didn't know of that. I almost call it a residency of sorts that they did through the summer, the New Jersey experience. Can you talk about that?
- [29:12]
Lester Holt
Well, I will tell you, Buzz, one of the things, you know, if there was something that I, I, out of all this that I wish existed would be recordings, nights on the Jersey Shore. Because from all accounts and all the people I talked to, there was nothing like it, you know, there was nothing at all going on Tony Mart's. I used this, the book, if you've seen the film Eddie and the Cruisers that was filmed at Tony Mart's and you see those nights and that's like the closest you can get to the kind of mayhem and beautiful chaos that was happening, you know? And these guys, there were one of the stories I talk about in the book, there were guys coming up from Atlantic City that had heard about Richard, about him singing James Brown and Robbie's guitar playing was already reaching legendary status, you know, and it's like I, I wanted so much more. I had talked to the historical society down there and, and read, pulled newspapers and done all that and talked to people who had, who had been to some shows. But man, I think for the Hawks, I think that's where, where they hit it, you know, and where they found out, like, we've got something here that we can just take anywhere. And then like you said, then Bob showed up and throwed. Threw everything into chaos. But it was, it was all worth it.
- [30:27]
Stephen T. Lewis
So Great pictures from that, that neighborhood too. Down at the Jersey Shore. My God.
- [30:34]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And. And I have to say that what Richard's, Richard's first wife Jane had that beautiful photo of Tony Martz with Levon and the Hawks on the marquee when she went down there to visit Richard. And I just was like, oh my. That, that just. It's like a period piece. You just can't, you know, I mean, that kind of sums it all up right there.
- [30:53]
Stephen T. Lewis
Sure does. Another of the many things I learned in, in the book was the, the connection with one Tiny Tim. Can you talk about that?
- [31:05]
Lester Holt
Well, yeah, I mean, he was hanging around Woodstock, you know, and he was kind of hanging around everybody and when. So we'll jump a little bit past once they got with Dylan and they did the, the famed 60 Tour when they came back to New York. And then Dylan had his accident when the guys started kind of making their way up to Woodstock because they were on retainer, you know, they needed to do something. Grossman was, wanted them to do something and if Bob wasn't going to go on the road. So they started to go up there to see what he was up to. But they started to do cut ins and filming for Eat the document, the unreleased 1966 film. And they weren't recording music at that, that point. They were doing these little cool little clips and surreal stuff. And you can see some stuff from the Dylan center on YouTube of color footage of Richard just smiling in a snow covered ground in Woodstock. Beautiful grin and just kind of the vibe of the era and what they were getting into. So Tiny Tim was a part of that and he, he'd bring his UK over and play with Bob and then Robbie was up there and then Richard and Rick showed up when Rick found Big Pink and that's when like the music making started. They weren't filmmakers, obviously, but that's when the organic start of the basement tapes, I suppose, you know, like they just started realizing, well, we're all here together, let's just start jamming. But everybody liked Tiny Tim and you know, that eclectic kind of touched every little bit of every genre you possibly could. So it was what a, what a happening environment right there, you know, with everybody in Woodstock. Like the true Woodstock spirit in that, in that era, it's just.
- [32:51]
Stephen T. Lewis
Oh yeah. And you really paint what we, you know, heard when we first heard the basement tapes. You paint the fact that they were just, you know, having a blast.
- [33:03]
Lester Holt
And that's really what it comes down to, you know, and you know, I, it's funny you say that, Buzz, because I. I was cognizant of this fact. It's like, you don't want to get too scientific about this stuff. When it comes down to it. They were enjoying making music together. They had done this road stuff and been booed in Europe and had stuff thrown at them and flown in rickety airplanes. And the Hawks. I mean, Richard in particular, 1957, he'd been going and playing music and really had never stopped. And they all kind of took stock and enjoyed each other's company. And just the music obviously just came out of everybody, which is really, really the magical part of the basement tapes is just the natural love of each other and love of the music they're creating.
- [33:55]
Stephen T. Lewis
The book addresses Richard's personal struggles with addiction and inner turmoil. How did you approach these topics, which are sensitive topics, while still so brilliantly celebrating his artistry and humanity?
- [34:14]
Lester Holt
Thank you for that, Buzz. It was. I struggled at points because this was a reality and. But I wanted to. My goal when I started the whole project was to dispel the narrative that this is who Richard was. And really I wanted to bring out the humanity in him and know that it could happen. Any of this, that this isn't like, this wasn't a unique thing to Richard. And I kind of felt like over the years, it was like when Richard was brought up, it was like this happened because he drank or because he did this. And it's part and parcel for who he was. But like I had alluded to earlier, I kind of wanted to focus on the music and then let his situation kind of the biography kind of develop on its own without focusing. And as you know, you've read a number of rock and roll books. Some of them focus on the stuff that's salacious, you know, and that just didn't. Didn't appeal to me. And I think because I backed into Richard's story of like, I saw, but I knew from reading everything that he had had issues. I was like, I don't think. Think I needed to belabor that fact. So it was a delicate balance. And I told some of his family members, I go, obviously, these are things that happened. And some of them were very candid about things that Richard did. But I didn't feel like I needed to pound it into the ground. I really wanted. We know what happened. Oddly enough, I thought the book would end differently. And I say that part serious. When I got to the end of the book, I'm like. Like, really, there's not more, you know, and that's one of the. That is the heartbreaking thing I've had some people comment to me, you know, it's going to be a sad book. And I was like, there's a lot of joy in the book. You know, I. I don't want it to be sad. I want it to be, wow, what a talented guy who is human, like all of us, and face some issues that he could not defeat. And I hope that I balance those things equally. I really, really focused on. On doing that.
- [36:22]
Stephen T. Lewis
I believe you did, for sure. I really believe you did. So let's go to some particular songs. I'll. I'll list some of my favorites. There's so many favorites. And I'll get your reflection on. On some of these songs that either Richard, you know, road or took the singing lead on. Yeah. So one that he didn't write, but it's one of my favorites is Rock and shit.
- [36:50]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And, you know, I mentioned in the book that Richard, in addition to being a songwriter, in my opinion, is one of the best interpreters ever. And you can see that from the Hawks all the way through. And he easily made songs his. And you can see on the Festival Express there's a really beautiful performance of rock and Chair that the band does. I Believe in Calgary. And he takes the words that weren't necessarily his, but, you know, you believe it. It's like with King Harvest, he could slide into character, and I think that comes from his immersion into the blues. You can. He could slide into this character's shoes and you're convinced, you know, and rock and share is one of those things you really wonder as far as melody, what Richard contributed. Because when you listen to Richard a lot, you know, like anything, like a fingerprint, there's things you feel that, like, are his, you know, trademark roles or little chord changes or little. Little melodic plays that he would use. And you hear it and you're like, wow. You can't tell. You're like, whose song is this? Because it certainly sounds like Richards in. In that case, you know. So. Yeah, I think. I think. I think one of Robbie's finest lyrics and one of Richard's most incredible vocal vocal approaches. Band era, for sure. For sure.
- [38:20]
Stephen T. Lewis
Another impassioned lead vocal performance is on the song the Shape I'm In.
- [38:27]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And that's one, you know, that it kind of the reverse, like that became Richard's song, you know, and everybody's like, oh, man, this. This. This guy's singing about himself when we all. In actuality, we know Robbie was Writing about himself, no matter what he. He says later. And I'm not gonna disagree with. With Robbie. You know, he wrote the song, but it wasn't just, this is a song about Richard. They were all going through the same stuff. And that's part of the thing I. I also wanted to. Not to go off, but I wanted to focus on was, you know, know, Richard wasn't the only guy that was having issues in that band. They all dealt with issues. And I think that song kind of sums it up. But by the end of his life, I think Richard was. Was over it. He probably read in the book, you know, one of the last. The last show he'd said to his wife, he's like, I'm. I want to play it anymore. I'm done. I need more. You know, there was more that needed to happen, so. But obviously you can't that the. That song, whether it's from Richard's Rhodes, Garce Lowry. I mean, it's. There's nothing like it. You know, there's really nothing like. It's like this mo diddly crossed with country funk. There's nothing like that song. So you couldn't pick a better one to be, you know, have Richard attached to.
- [39:49]
Stephen T. Lewis
And then music from Big Pink, the quintessential I shall be released.
- [39:55]
Lester Holt
And if you listen to those basement recordings, you can hear the genesis of the band's version, you know, and because in the. In the. In the basement, they're doing three part harmonies, and you can hear Richard's falsetto on the very top of Bob. And then all of a sudden, when you listen to the studio version, you're like, oh. I mean, they just knew that they had something with this guy with. With these vocals, I mean. And again, it's one of those songs where you're like, wow, this had to have been written for him. But, you know, it's a Dylan lyric and it's now it's become like, synonymous with so many things, you know, so many All Star jams. There's so many performances that close with that because it's just such an amazing song. And again, Richard made it his own. And that's really. Though he used it to great effect on a number of songs. On Music for Big Pink, his falsetto on that. It's hard to hear the song with anything but that, at least for me, anyways.
- [40:55]
Stephen T. Lewis
Another one, music by Richard Manuel, lyrics by Robbie Robertson, is Whispering Pines.
- [41:03]
Lester Holt
Yeah. And I mean, and I say this in the book, especially the midsection where Levon and Richard do the call and response. I personally feel that's like one of the defining moments of the band's entire discography. And, and Richard, he wrote that song in Bellows Road in Woodstock, in George Bellows old house, under, Under a mountain, Catskills, an artist home. Completely fitting. And that was one of those songs. And we could get into the collaboration. The missed opportunities for Robbie and Richard to really take their collaboration to the highest levels. But that song seemed the perfect marriage. You know, Richard was this melodicist who always, he just had, he had melody. He's just music coming out of him. He would get stuck on words. And Robbie, one of the best lyricists, you know, in rock music then. And I still feel that way today. And when you marry those things. And Robbie said in his, his memoir that, you know, Richard came in and he was just stuck. Couldn't, couldn't get the, the theme like music he had. He just couldn't get the words. So Robbie took, took it on vacation, came back and, and there we go. But I mean it, it kind of again, it kind of collaborates the best that both of them have to offer. And then you throw in Levon singing with Richard, which is one of the best things in the world, and Garth tying it all together and it's like I, I, you know, people say King Harvest, which I agree with, but I think Whispering Pines as far as for Richard is. Doesn't get much better.
- [42:41]
Stephen T. Lewis
And then I could go on and on, of course. And then another one, which, you know, co written with Bob Dylan is. And then the opening track from music from Big Pink, Tears of Rage.
- [42:54]
Lester Holt
Yeah, and another one that was, that was, you know, cultivated from those basement sessions. And I've mentioned this to other people, you know, in Robbie's memoir, he says, I feel like that was the point where I saw Richard's songwriting like ascend to this new place. And, and obviously everyone felt that way to have it be the opening song on their debut record. And there's the Dylan connection there, which Dylan didn't co write at that point with. Very many people wrote with Rick and Richard, which is great. And you may or may not know the story where they had the typewriter on the table at Big Pink and Dylan would show up before people got up, he'd make coffee and he'd just clickety clack away. And one of those days Richard was sitting at the panel and Bob goes, can you do something with those changes with this? And Richard in his interview in 1984 with the Woodstock Times said, well, what do you say to Bob Dylan, what is this about? You don't ask Bob that. So he married the two things together and again, the melody and the words and those regal chord changes. It's like that was the first thing that all of these guys that loved the band heard, Eric included, you know, that was it. That was the introduction. And I think that's fitting and that that is again, you know, every song you say, we're like, wow, how can you beat that?
- [44:20]
Stephen T. Lewis
Yeah. And then you figure out how to beat it the band. That's why he was Richard Manual. Yes, you know, exactly. That's why Bob is Bob Dylan.
- [44:29]
Lester Holt
You know, exactly.
- [44:30]
Stephen T. Lewis
When you break it down. No, so in closing, I know Richard's family has, you know, they supported and have endorsed the book and they were so helpful in the process. But. And you made reference to this. But how do you think Richard would, would feel about this now that it's, you know, out for the world to read?
- [44:53]
Lester Holt
I know he would be because he was a self deprecating kind of guy. I think he would be embarrassed, but I think that I like to think that he would be proud of his accomplishments. And I've had a couple of his family members, you know, it was hard for me personally. I wanted to make sure that I could get as close to Richard as I possibly could with never meeting the guy. And I had a couple family members both say, I feel Richard in this book. And really, I mean right now it gives me goosebumps because that, that really, that's all that mattered to me is that this tribute to him gave a clear picture. And for people down the line, when as we just talked about, someone drops the needle on music from Big Pink and here's Tears of Rage and they're like, who is this singer? Now there's a reference for that. You know, there's not just the Last Waltz or Once We're Brothers, there's a reference and you can go through and say, wow, wow. This guy was responsible for so much music and it never stopped. No matter the narrative, it never stopped. You know, he had some, he had some issues getting started, but it was always coming from him and he was always doing what he could do to make music with friends.
- [46:13]
Stephen T. Lewis
Stephen T. Lewis, bravo. You did an amazing job.
- [46:17]
Lester Holt
Thank you so much.
- [46:18]
Stephen T. Lewis
You poured your heart and soul into it and you let us us feel the heart and soul of Richard Manuel in the book. So everybody ought to check it out. Seriously.
- [46:27]
Lester Holt
I certainly appreciate it and thank you for the kind words.
- [46:31]
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Lester Holt
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