← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
"Jerry Douglas : The Dobro Master Who Revolutionized Bluegrass Music: Inspiring Icon Interview-Encore"
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Jerry Douglas
Taking a Walk I remember walking around one night at a festival as I was in between my junior and senior years of high school out on the road with this band. You know, I just remember walking around really late one night at a festival and going, this would not be such a bad way to go. I just felt like I belonged and felt like it was something I could get better, you know, see how far this could go.
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Buzz Knight
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast. This is the podcast hosted by Buzz Knight, talking with musicians about the inside stories behind their music, their passions, their challenges and their latest projects. Today, Buzz speaks with dobro master and 16 time Grammy winner Jerry Douglas. His music spans country, bluegrass, rock, jazz, and more into a distinctive musical vision. Man considered a musical trailblazer, Jerry Douglas joins Buzz Knight next on Taking a Walk.
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Jerry Douglas, it's so great having you on the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [03:15]
Jerry Douglas
Nice to see you. Nice to see you. How's everything been with you?
- [03:19]
Buzz Knight
Everything has been great. The nice folks at City Winery were kind enough to sync us up. August 20th, a Boston date, and also August 23rd, a city winery, New York City date as well. So you're going to be making the rounds, sir.
- [03:36]
Jerry Douglas
Tour of the city wineries. And I don't drink. Yeah. Who am I going to give it all to? Oh, well, you know what?
- [03:44]
Buzz Knight
Just go. Go easy on everybody. But how did a young man from Warren, Ohio, get the bug, man?
- [03:53]
Jerry Douglas
You know, my. My father, my. My parents moved up to Ohio from West Virginia, where there was either work in the coal mines or be a farmer or work on the state road. You mean you didn't have many choices. So they moved up to Ohio, northeastern Ohio, for work. My dad moved up there for. To. And worked in steel mills, and he played. He played guitar. You know, all those people that moved up from the south, they brought their music with them, if nothing else, you know, whatever they could carry and all the music they could remember. And so it was. It was through my father that I got the love to play music. He was a guitar player and a singer and had his own bluegrass band. And I got to watch those guys, you know, and I'd be rolling around on the floor watching these guys arrange a song, you know, and figure out who took a solo here, who took a solo there, and it all kind of, like, sunk in. And plus, I just. I. I don't remember a time when I didn't love music, you know, or want to hear it, you know, when I. Whenever it wasn't there. So I'm gonna go out on a.
- [05:08]
Buzz Knight
Limb and say Jerry Douglas really did not have a plan B in mind for his career.
- [05:14]
Jerry Douglas
Well, I did have a plan B. I was gonna. I was actually gonna become an English teacher. And I was all set up to go to University of Maryland. And then I joined the country gentlemen in D.C. and that was as close as I got to Maryland. And I remember walking around one night at a festival as I was in between my junior and senior years of high school with. Out on the road with this band, you know, And I just remember walking around really late one night at a festival and going, this would not be such a bad way to go. You know, listening to the. All these People play, you know, around campfires and just what a cool scene it was, but what a musical scene I was in, you know, and learning just, you know, being that young and just being exposed to all of these bands, all these different kinds of music under one banner was blue, really bluegrass at that point. And I just felt like I belonged and. And felt like it was some. Something I could get better, you know, see how far this could go. And I don't ever remember thinking about throwing in the towel of any kind. You know, times were hard. You know, we coming up as young musicians, we didn't make a lot of money. We. But, man, we had a lot of fun. We ended up playing great music and, you know, discovering each other's music, and that's what really made me want to be. Become and stick and become a musician. You know, there was such camaraderie in that and the cream of the crop, you know, when the cream would rise and you got to play with those guys or those women, men, everybody, more men back at that point, you know, I'm glad to see there's so many women now. It's unbelievably great, but I just felt like there was. There was. I belonged there. And so I've been working all of these years to stick in there, try to make it better when I could, you know, when I did. I've done a lot of studio work, so I. I'm trying to make the records sound as good and be able to compete with any genre that they come up against. And that's something I. I think I've helped improve a little bit over the years, and just from doing so many country sessions, you know, being in the studio for, you know, 12, 16 hours a day, just taking that and. And. And, you know, passing that forward to. Onto bluegrass music, which wasn't always recorded so well. You know, it was mostly field recording at first, and then, you know, they're the great old. The great old Stanley Brothers and Flattens Grubs and Bill Monroe stuff, you know, that was recorded early on. But I've always thought that I could make it sound better, you know, sonically. And that's what I. That's what I work toward when I'm, you know, when I'm producing somebody. But it's. It's just a music that deserves to be heard. You know, once you've heard it, you like it, and it's with you forever. So it's. It's. It's just something. It's a. It's. It's the grand experiment, you know, for me.
- [08:41]
Buzz Knight
You know, other musicians are in awe of you. And in fact, I've wanted to get you on the podcast for a long time because we had the great Bill Payne from Littlefeet on the podcast. And once we were done, I said, bill, who do you think I should get? This was early on in doing the podcast, and the first person he mentioned was, you gotta get Jerry Douglas.
- [09:07]
Jerry Douglas
You know, wow, Bill, I love him, man. What. What an incredible musician and person he is. You know, I didn't really know Billy Payne until, you know, the last two or three years, really. And just I. I was around, you know, little feet, you know, and. And just as a. A fan, really, I thought, man, you know, they're. They're like another level up from. From most bands that play that kind of music. They. They have so many things going on in their band. It's just. And it's loose and it's tight at the same time. It. It. It's. And Billy is an amazing keyboard player, amazing piano player. And I just went to Brussels with. With him, and we just. We played on some sessions that, you know, and only. Only French was spoken there, and neither Bill or. Nor I spoke French. So we're just kind of like going, huh? Right, Right. Okay, here we go. And no one seemed to know the difference, so. But Billy. Billy took me. He said, there's some sessions in Brussels. I played on this guy's record a couple times. I think he would. I think he would enjoy this. And they're looking for something new. And I told him, you were the thing we needed. So we went over and we've done it, and we're back from that. But, you know, I spent a lot of time with. With Bill, and he's just a lovely guy and. And a major, major mover shaker in the whole rock and roll world, you know, and whatever that kind of music is that Little Feet played, it was so. It was an amalgamation of so many things, and Billy was, you know, at the head of that charge. So I got millions of great things to say about Billy Payne. That's. That's. That's what I can tell you about that.
- [11:03]
Buzz Knight
Well, you've collaborated with so many different people, and I'm sure this is an unfair question, but who are some of the favorite studio collaborations first out of the, I don't know, 1400 collaborations that you've had?
- [11:21]
Jerry Douglas
Yeah, it's kind of a blur, you know, and I'm asked that question a lot. And, you know, the first. There have been so Many things where, you know, when I've been just sitting in the studio and I would just say to myself, remember this, Remember this, because this is something. This is a big deal. This is a big deal. This is. This is, you know, you. You think about making the best music you can make, or. Okay, right now, you're in that situation. So step up. You know, things that times like with James Taylor or Elvis Costello, with Strength, the Numbers with my. With my guys, you know, Edgar Meyer and Bayla Fleck and Sam Bush and. And Marco Connor. We were all the five of us on this record called Strength and Numbers. You know, that was one. That wasn't a really great learning experience for me. And it was, you know, was. I was in this cocoon with my friends, but we were pushing each other really hard, you know, into territory that maybe we hadn't sampled before. And the. The payoff for that was. Was really great. In. In Not. I'm not talking about financially. I'm talking about just. Just information and. And lessons, you know, life lessons and just cooperating with people. Collaborating. Yeah, I am a collaborator. I love that. I mean, I get a chance to do that so much with Transatlantic Sessions. The thing that I do in Scotland every year, I go over and we have musicians coming from America and we have musicians coming all meeting in one place up in Scotland, in Glasgow. We start forming this show, and people from both sides who've never met, I have no idea, don't know about each other, you know, and we just kind of throw everybody together and collaborate. It's a giant collaboration experiment, and it always turns out so beautiful. And, you know, I get. I get five songs from each of the artists that are going to be on it every year. And then I. I start balancing that and trying to create a show out of that. By the time I get to Glasgow, I have a show. So we rehearse that show and throw these people together, and it's just amazing what they. What they end up with. It's. It's. And it only happens one time. You know, we do nine shows and we finish in London at the. At the Queen's Festival hall in London on the south bank, right by the. Right by the London Eye over there. And we finished. We finished the tour there and it never happens again. You know, it's just one of those things. It's. It's. It's like we get into this world and we. We flesh it out. We try everything. We. We. And we create the most beautiful music we can in the time that we have and it always turns out so good. I always think at the first of it, how in the world are we going to make a show out of this? Everybody is so different. But in, by the end of it, you know, they've all embraced each other's differences and, and you know, you look back and some, there's one person standing in the star position, but the other stars are back here singing background vocals or whatever it takes, you know, to. It's a huge band and, and it's, and it's a beautiful sound. And that, you know, is, is the. I can't think of a, of a circumstance where collaboration is, is. Is a bigger, you know, starts with a bigger C, you know, than that right there. It's. And that, and that's what I do. That's what I love to do, is just, you know, trade ideas with people, you know, and turn over, turn over every stone and try every idea, you know, let everybody in.
- [15:45]
Buzz Knight
So much like an athlete in the zone when they're performing at their highest level. Can you explain how a master musician like you gets into the zone and what that feels like?
- [16:00]
Jerry Douglas
Well, you know, I've done it for many years with it with Alison Krause and Union Station. And we all enter that zone because we have that musical music is just beautiful. And for us to, you know, we feel like we're, we're stewards, you know, we're, we've just been handed these beautiful songs. Now what are you going to do with them? You know, how are you going to uphold the, this standard, you know, keep this bar high and. But, but sometimes you can be out on stage and having a good night and just not even, you know, it's sort of like being in an out of body experience. I mean, you're standing there watching yourself do this, it feels like you can't make a mistake. And you know, of course you do then eventually start thinking about it that way. You're going to make a mistake. But it's just, it becomes so refined with that band. It's, it, it gets into, it gets into that zone where it's. We're all there at the same time and every, every cylinder is, is hitting perfectly in time and everything is great with the world. You know, it's a really good, it's a great feeling to just kind of. It is really like standing there watching this thing. It's out of body. It's. It can get that good with a band like that. Yeah.
- [17:31]
Buzz Knight
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [17:36]
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- [19:30]
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- [19:32]
Jerry Douglas
Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic Gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [19:35]
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- [19:39]
Jerry Douglas
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- [19:42]
Jerry Douglas
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- [20:33]
Buzz Knight
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [20:36]
What was the experience like doing the being part of the oh Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack?
- [20:45]
Jerry Douglas
It was wild and funny and you know, I've known Tebow and Burnett for years before that. And he, when he explained to me what we're going to do, he said, we're going to make, we're going to make a record to go with a movie, but we're going to record all these songs that we've been told we can't make any money making, you know, playing. So I said, how many records do you think this is going to sell, T Bone? And he said 8 million. And he was too off or maybe 4 off by now, I don't know. But it's been, it was a great record, you know, and, and at the time when we were doing the record, we were, we were all playing this music, you know, that we had played, you know, early in our lives and hence had surpassed, you know, the, the simplicity of it in a way. And we had to get that back. That was what we were really there for, was to create music from a time capsule. And, and we actually got to be in the movie, toward the end of the movie, right before we're in a building where they were. Ride a guy out on a rail. They take him out on a rail. We, we were on stage. Dan Taminsky and Barry Bales and Ron Block and I were up there with really bad haircuts they gave us that were from the third 20s and 30s, you know, and, and we, so we sported those haircuts all summer. But it was worth it, you know, and I, and I got a lot more respect for actors George Clooney and, and everybody was, they were, they have to do their part like six, seven times to get every angle because there was one camera shooting. So, and it was, you know, held by Roger Deakins. He was the guy sitting on the camera, would arrive every day in a nice crisp pair of jeans and a nice crisp white shirt. You know, he's sitting there on that camera and he's in command. And so he would shoot it from every angle. And I watched those people go through the same thing exactly, you know, six times. To do it perfectly. It's very time consuming. What they have to do. Like we can go back and do something over again. We don't have to do the whole thing over again. We can do just a piece of it when we're recording, you know, in our lives. But they're on film, you know, they have to, they have to, they have to speak, they have to act, they have to look right, you know, it has to, it has to go together. And. But, but it was, it was wonderful because my wife is from Mississippi, so the Mississippi is still a source of wonderment to me. And I don't totally understand everything that goes on down there, but what an amazing place. And we were in Vicksburg when we did our part. We did it in Vicksburg in a building that had never had air conditioning. And we're in dead people suits. You know, we're in wool three piece suits and it's in, it's July in. In a building that never had. So they would have this truck that would pump all this air conditioning in. And there were 200 people in other dead people's suits sitting at the tables. And we're up there playing and sweating. And there was one room in the back that had air conditioning going all the time. And, and George Clooney was piling in there with us as musicians. He was in there with us just going, wow, is it hot out there? You know, it just. And you got to, you got to know these people. They're just people, you know, they're just like us. It's like people, people are afraid to come up to you once in a while just because you're, you know, they saw you on stage and they just don't know, you know, what a marvelous thing that is. Well, they do know what a marvelous thing it is, and they wish they could do it and they treat you in a different way because you've done that. But, you know, we're just people. We're just, just, we just happen to do what we do. It's a little bit different.
- [24:59]
Buzz Knight
Tell me how you first ran into Molly Tuttle and what it's been like doing project work with Molly.
- [25:08]
Jerry Douglas
Molly. Molly's such a powerhouse and such a. So soft and so quiet and reserved and everything until she picks up that guitar, you know, and when she's, when she straps on the guitar, this Other. This other person takes over, and she's not afraid of anything. She's, she, she'll wade right into anything, and the whole band is that way. And, you know, the first record I did with her was sort of like I call in the ringers and we make a record, you know, and she gives presents me with all the ideas and the songs and everything. And we worked them out, figured out what we were going to play, and then, then we picked the music, the musicians. And the only person she knew for sure was she said, Ron Block. I definitely want Ron Block to play banjo on the record. Done. I know that guy. And so we could get him. And we started bringing in, you know, filling in the band, and it was a great record. Really fun record to make. And getting her feet wet. Really. Really. You know, she's been playing bluegrass for years in her family band in California and with other people, you know, with, of her, her same, you know, her age and all that. But, and, and it is a different language. I, I, I did have to learn a different language. I had to learn, you know, millennial language and what not to say, what to say. It's like I felt I'd never. You were. Times when I felt really old, you know, look, I would say something that was some something, and they go, oh, you can't say that. So please educate me on what I can say. And you know me, I only mean the best. I only mean the best. Anything I say, please don't take it in a derogatory way or I'm not against anything. So, so please just tell me when I cross the line. And I did, and they told me, and, but we got along so fine. But then the second record, the band came in, and she said, I want to do this one with the band, with the band we have. And yeah, amazing music, musicians, young group of musicians. And I said, it'll take longer because bands working bands take longer in the studio because they're not usually a studio savvy, you know, about. Not to move on the microphone because your sound changes, you know, and you hear that, you know, you want, you want to, you want to be as steady and as you can, you know, just, just stay in your lane. Just stay right there and, and give that microphone the best performance you can. And they knocked it out of the park. They, they came in and I, I was wrong about that band being. Not being savvy, because they were totally. And I would just, you know, make a, just have something to say once in a little while, but not much meaning. And we'd get in. I, I had. What I did with, with the second record was brought everybody down front because Molly and I had really worked the songs out and the band didn't really know the songs yet. So I, after they kind of got recordings of them and got in advance, you know, recordings of what we wanted to do, they. But then I set them all down in the front of the studio in a circle and we, so we could look at each other and talk to each other as we went through the songs and we all learned them at the same time and you know, and we had the same groove going on, you know, we were thinking the same things and then went to our stations, you know, in our little blocked out places where we won't, the fiddle won't end up on the banjo tracker or the other way around, things like that, you know, to just move everybody around so we're, you know, completely clean recording and. But they nailed it. They nailed it and, and personalities just overflowing with personalities, you know, but one end in mind, you know, and just to make the. A great record and sound like a band, you know, and they do and they are and they've. And since we've recorded they've gone out and they just have this Persona that's like no other band out there. I mean it's just like, I don't know, it's. It's glitz and glamour, you know, and, and that a lot of glamour and a lot of really good playing, really good playing and they, they can back it all up and, and, But Molly is. Her songwriting gets better and better and better. You know, I didn't know you could work. You use the word Cassiopeia in an, in a song. But she did the name Cassiopeia. You know, so you look up in the sky and you see Cassiopeia. But I'd never heard it in a song until it came running by. But she would bring these songs up. There was only one song that I said, I don't know about this song. And she said, catch said the same thing. So that one's out, you know, so. And you know, but we've, we've had nothing but great times in the studio and it's just been a, it's been a wonderful trip, you know, and for me to get to ride along with that band and watch its success, you know, a couple of Grammys and who knows, who knows what's ahead for them, you know, it's, it's a. The whole scene is changing, you know, you can see with Billy Strings and Molly Sierra hall, just. It's all that. And they're. They're at the. They're at the front of it. They're at the spearhead of this thing. And Billy's just, you know, selling out. His thing is a totally different scene. I mean, to play into 50, 50,000 people or something like that in the night, it's a phenomena is really what's going on with Billy. And he couldn't happen to a nicer fella either because he's just. I love that guy. I mean, he made the right choice. When he got to his fork in the road, he took the right turn and everything's looking up for him. It's all great.
- [31:29]
Buzz Knight
Who you taking on the road for this round of shows in the band?
- [31:34]
Jerry Douglas
Who's going to be with you in my band? Mike Seal is amazing electric guitar player. And it sounds funny to say that I've got a bass, a violin, a dobro and an electric guitar, but what a wall of sound we can make, you know? And we had a drummer, great drummer for a long time. And then I did the John Hyatt record. I produced the John Hyatt record. And he didn't. On this particular record, he wanted to go at it without drums. So we just. When I took my band in the studio just without the drummer, and since then we just thought, well, there's this all. Look. Look at all this space that's out here that drums were kind of covering it before, and now we've got all this space to work with. What do we do with this? So, you know, it's a. Just a new, new chapter and. But that's the band that I'll have with me and Mike Seal on, on guitar, Daniel Kimbrough on bass, and Christian Settlemeyer on violin. And just master musicians. Master musicians. They push me around all the time. It's. It's great. I love the pushing. I love the challenge. I love the pushing. I need that, you know, we run out of people who, who inspire us that way, you know, and on stage. So it's great having these guys, and I respect them as much as musicians as anyone I've ever met. These guys are. These guys can. They can hold there. They can hold it right there. And they, they're. They don't. They fear nothing. They're fearless.
- [33:16]
Buzz Knight
In closing, Jerry, anybody on the Dream List that you haven't collaborated with that you're itching to collaborate with?
- [33:24]
Jerry Douglas
Well, you know, I've, I've. I've done this Thing that for the last three or four years, my managers put me in these situations like a gray fox. For a couple of years, I was the residents, the artist in residence. So I would play with just practically every band that was on stage. And that's a good way to get to know people, because you're not. When you go out on stage with somebody, you're not only taking. You're not only just taking up a, you know, some real estate on stage. You need to fit into what they're doing. You need to become a chameleon, you know, and that's something that I've learned to do over the years just from doing sessions, you know, and being called in so many times to replace the saxophone because it took the. The song too far away from the genre and the. The market they wanted to sell it in. So here comes the dobro player to. To. To get rid of the saxophone solo. Replace the saxophone. But, you know, sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes you have to be a chameleon. And these instruments allow us to do that. You know, it's our personalities. The instruments are conduit for our own personalities. And. And when you hear somebody play, that's their real personality. That's what I believe. And so there are people who I want to play with. I've played with so many people in that situation. Like, I'm talking about in an Earl Scruggs festival that's coming up in the end of August, the last weekend. It's Labor Day festival, really. I'm the host of that festival. Somehow the Scruggs family took me on, and I am. I'm a. I'm a spokesman and happy to be Earl. If it hadn't been for Earl Scruggs, I. I wouldn't be here. None of us would be here, you know, and so I'm. I'm paying back. I'll be forever paying back for that. But, you know, there are musicians in other genres, but there are musicians in this. In this bluegrass genre, too, that I've wanted to play with. And, you know, guys like Danny Paisley, you know, whose father Bob Paisley, was a. Was an icon in sort of Pennsylvania, Maryland, area bluegrass for years and years. And. And his son Bob passed away, but his son Danny took it up, took up the mantle. And, man, you know, he's. He's one of these guys. He's. He's. He's like. He's just. He's like Del McCurry. He's from the same. He's cut from the same cloth. And they just go out there and they make you love this music. You know, they just. They just pour their hearts out. And you. And you can't walk away from there without just thinking, man, I just seen something I didn't think I would ever see in my life. You know, it's just eye opening experiences, you know, that people bring Adele and people like Danny and, you know, to fit them into my other world, you know, with Sam and Bayla and Edgar and, you know, all the things we do at Telluride that are so crazy and all these different collaborations that we do out there, you know, bringing the older bluegrass guys forward into that is really fun for me. I love to hear the two worlds collide, you know, but it's. What comes out on the other end is always beautiful. August 20, City Winery in Boston.
- [37:05]
Buzz Knight
August 23, the City Winery in New York City. Mystery force of nature. Jerry Douglas, it's really awesome to have you on Taking a Walk.
- [37:15]
Jerry Douglas
Thank you, thank you. Thank you for asking me to be on and say hello to everybody up there for me. And we're really looking forward to playing in Boston. I don't know if we've played the Boston City Winery before. I don't think I have, but I have played the New York and loved it. So. Looking forward to seeing all our friends up there. You know, we have so many and we're gonna, we're gonna spend some time up there in that area during that. During that tour. So, yeah, it'll be good to get up there and be in New York City, be in Boston, be in the big city. Can't wait.
- [37:51]
Buzz Knight
You're awesome. Thanks, Jerry.
- [37:53]
Jerry Douglas
Thank you. Thank you.
- [37:56]
Buzz Knight
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you.
- [38:11]
Commercial Narrator
Get your podcasts.
- [38:14]
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- [39:20]
Janice Torres / Austin Hankwitz
Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.
- [39:23]
Jerry Douglas
We host the podcast Mind the Small.
- [39:25]
Commercial Narrator
Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio.
- [39:28]
Janice Torres / Austin Hankwitz
In partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.
- [39:30]
Podcast Announcer
We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.
- [39:34]
Commercial Narrator
The big thing about working at tech.
- [39:35]
Jerry Douglas
Is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie, that's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:49]
Podcast Announcer
This is Sarah Spain from Good Game with Sarah Spain, brought to you in part by Vital Farms. Let me tell you why Vital Farms pasture raised eggs are the only eggs I have in my fridge. They the hens, they're living the good life. Fresh air, sunshine and wide open pastures. I use my Vital Farms for my famous frittatas and you could trace your eggs back to the farm they came from. Check the carton for the farm name, pop it into vitalfarms.com farm and boom, you're looking at the pasture. So next time you're in the store, look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more. VitalFarms Good eggs, no shortcuts. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.