← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Join Buzz Knight and C. J. Chenier as They Explore the Rich Legacy of Clifton Chenier and Zydeco Music
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- [00:01]
Podcast Host
Taking a Walk I'm Buzz Knight and.
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Podcast Co-Host
This is the Taking a Walk podcast. Now, however you are checking us out. We appreciate it, but we do love if you can follow us on all the platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart or any of the other platforms. Also, as you follow us, Leave us a Rating Leave us a Review Share it with your friends. We really appreciate it. Now today I have the absolute honor.
- [00:26]
Podcast Host
Of talking with a true guardian of.
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Podcast Co-Host
Of Louisiana music heritage, CJ Chenier. CJ isn't just carrying on a family tradition. He's preserving and evolving one of America's most vital musical legacies. As the son of the legendary Clifton Cheniere, the undisputed king of Zydeco, CJ has spent decades honoring his father's groundbreaking work while carving out his own distinctive voice in the zydeco tradition. This year marks the the 100th birthday of Clifton Cheniere and Smithsonian Folkways is celebrating with the release of Clifton Cheniere.
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Podcast Host
King of Louisiana Blues and Zydeco, the.
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Podcast Co-Host
First ever box set devoted to the visionary artist who transform African American blues, R and B, Afro Caribbean rhythms, and Louisiana Cajun and Creole music into the electrifying genre we know as Zydeco. This historic collection features 67 tracks spanning 1954 to 1983. A lot of unreleased performances.
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Podcast Host
I can't wait.
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Podcast Co-Host
Next to talk to CJ Chenier on taking a walk.
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Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.
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Spencer Graves
A man with down syndrome tries the impossible, the grand slam in turkey hunting.
- [01:49]
Justin
4:53 hits were legal shooting light and he gives us this one last ch and he pitches off. And when he pitches off, he flies right into the gun barrel. I said to the cameraman, do you have him? He said, shoot him. I said, Justin, shoot.
- [02:06]
Spencer Graves
You can download this episode and others from Lines and Tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:18]
Podcast Host
Taking a Walk well, cj, welcome to what we call the Taking a Walk podcast. It's an absolute honor. Have you on.
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CJ Chenier
It's an honor to be on I tell you.
- [02:29]
Podcast Host
So. We we like this opening question here. Maybe you can play along with it. It's a bit. It's a bit dreamy, it's a bit mysterious, and it's supposed to be fun and heartfelt. So since we call this podcast Taking a Walk, cj, is there somebody that you'd like to take a walk with, living or dead? And who would that be and where would you take that little skedaddle with them?
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CJ Chenier
I'd like to Take another walk with my dad, you know, it wouldn't matter where it was or when it was. I just hoping. I wish it could be again.
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Podcast Host
Oh, man, I had a feeling you were going to tell me that. And I would love to be a fly in the wall for that too, you know? Yeah, that would be. That would be amazing. Well, 20, 25 marks. What would have been your father's 100th birthday and when you hear people call him the king of Zydeco. What does that title mean to you personally? You know, beyond just the music.
- [03:34]
CJ Chenier
It's like a badge of honor, you know, it's knowing people feel like that about my dad and knowing that they have that thought about him is the slightest. I don't know, it's like, I'm super proud, man. I mean, I don't think nobody could be more prouder than me about that.
- [03:54]
Podcast Host
Well, you contributed a personal remembrance to the new beautiful Smithsonian Folkways box set. Can you tell our audience what that writing process was, was like for you? And I'm pretty certain I know the answer, but were there memories or stories that you had never shared publicly before that were part of that?
- [04:18]
CJ Chenier
Well, it's pretty much, man, I just gave it to him like I remember, you know, I'm not the kind of person to try to fabricate things or make up stuff just to make it seem better, you know, I really got involved in my dad's band, his life in 1978, all before I was growing up with my mother, you know, and he was a road dog then, so it was like a thing, man, being clip of Shanil's son. So what I did was just told everybody exactly how I felt about things and growing up with and without him and, you know, the effect the end of my life and just tried to be as straightforward about it as I possibly could.
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Podcast Host
This Wonderful collection includes 19 previously unreleased performances. I'm pretty certain you had heard those performances in some form before, but were there any that, you know, frankly surprised you that gave you new insight into the brilliance of your father?
- [05:25]
CJ Chenier
Man, I'll tell you the truth, every night I was on a stage with him gave me an insight on his brilliance, you know, it's just like a living lesson. And it was so good to be next to him, watching him and seeing how he did things. I mean, and then when I listened to his playing, knowing that he never took lessons, nobody never taught him. No, he self taught. And I listened to some of the things he played and I'm like, there's some kind of divine Intervention with his fingers, man. Cause it's like, you know, I listened to those notes, and I'm like, well, how did he come up with that? And all natural, just. Everything was just natural with him.
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Podcast Host
Take me back to your childhood. What was the earliest memory that you recall of music in the Cheniere household? And when did you first realize your father wasn't just your dad, but he was this musical force of nature?
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CJ Chenier
Well, you know, in my household, you know, had one clip of Chanel album, you know, and he sang in French, and I didn't really speak French. So this album had this one song on it, and that song was called Hot Rod. It was instrumental. And to me, that was the greatest song I ever heard. Cause it was like my dad had song. And, you know, when I was going to school, people would. My classmates, you know, would tease me sometime, oh, your daddy played on chanky chain music. And I had one friend, he used to take a piece of paper and fold it up, and there was a bunch of folds, like a car. It open and wide and go, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. But the thing about all that is, even though they were clowning me and talking about the music, because they didn't understand it, they all knew who he was. So it's like, okay, y', all, dial me by my daddy. But, you know, him. And then when I went on the road with him, gave me the opportunity to really see how people felt about him then, you know. Cause I was a little kid from living in Port Arthur, Texas. I really never been anywhere. And all of a sudden, I was on the stage with the King. But to me, it was just my daddy. But I was on the stage, and then I saw how people reacted to him and how they migrated to him, how they loved him, how they danced in frenzies when he played. And all that gave me a whole new insight to who he really was, you know?
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Podcast Host
So that kind of brought the fact that he was. It was different seeing him as a band leader than your dad.
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CJ Chenier
Right, right, right. You know. You know, come all these slippers on and just chilling and everything, and, you know, and he tell me stories about some of the songs he had recorded and how people acted to him. But when I got out there and saw it for myself, it was unbelievable, man. I had never seen. You know, I was playing in funk bands and stuff like that. And I like jazz, but I never saw nobody act like that to funk or jazz. I'd never seen anything like that on audience reactions. So that all wrapped me all up into it.
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Podcast Host
You know, your Uncle Cleveland is featured prominently in the. In the box set as one of the real foundational zydeco collaborators. Can you tell us what the musical relationship was like between the brothers?
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CJ Chenier
Like I said, man, it was all natural. You know, it's like they all came. They came together like. Like one. But it wasn't a plan thing, it wasn't a rehearse thing. They got up there, they just did it, and it just fell in place, you know, it's like they felt the same thing, you know, so my dad playing a choir, Cleveland playing voice bowl was just like one person playing both instruments because they blended in so well.
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Podcast Host
It's incredible. I mean, the box set description, how it. It talks about your father blending African American blues, R B, Afro Caribbean rhythms, Louisiana Cajun and Creole music. So it was just something that came naturally. It was not anything that was a conscious place that he went with all those genres. That's. That's incredible.
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CJ Chenier
Yeah, I mean, he. He walk around humming the blues all the time. You know, he was a blues zydeco man. You know, he always hung the blues and he had different influences, you know, that people he listened to and he sing their songs in French. But he. It was all, like I said, it wasn't planned. You know, he felt it as he went along. You know, whatever he felt that he did, he never held back anything.
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Podcast Host
There's a previously unreleased recording of a song called Mr. Charlie in the set written by your. Your father's cousin, Lightning Hopkins. What can you tell us about that relationship? And, and how did blues and zydeco intersect in your father's world?
- [10:57]
CJ Chenier
Well, you know, I came along later on in. In his career with. With Lightning. But, you know, they were cousins. You know, I'm not gonna tell you exactly know how they were cousins, but they were. Because Lightning has Cadillac parked at my daddy's house in Houston. And, you know, he promised to talk to Lightning and try to buy from him, but things didn't happen that way. But I just think, like I say, my dad had a lot of influence because he felt the blues. You know, like I said, he was a farmer, man. He felt the blues. Cause they had the blues back then. I tell everybody. It's like you got to understand where he came from and what he had to go through to do what he did. You know, the blues was present. He just created a whole nother genre of music within itself.
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Podcast Host
How does it make you feel how the Stones and particularly Mick Jagger have embraced your dad's work and his legacy?
- [11:59]
CJ Chenier
Wait Until I remember back in 1978, 79 or something like that, we were performing, I just got in the band and we were performing at Bourbon Day School in Watts in California. And of course the place was jam packed, you know, I was on stage with my daddy, you know, playing the Saxopar. And man, a little commotion going on on the audience. And it was Mick Jagger showed up at the show that night. Oh, and but of course, you know, the old Louisiana folks, they two step and have fun and they're like, you know, you need to get out the way so I can see Cliff. So, you know, it's a great thing. So I know Mick Jagger didn't just all of a sudden start paying attention to Clifford and shit. He's been doing it for years. And it's really an honor, you know, someone like that, you know, would take the time out of his busy schedule to come and pay attribute to him.
- [13:04]
Podcast Host
I discovered something about Austin City Limits and your father that he performed on the third ever episode of Austin City Limits alongside the great Towns Van Zant. What did it mean for Zydeco to be presented on that platform back in 1976?
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CJ Chenier
I actually performed with him at Austin City Limits once also when I got in the band, which was a little later than 76. And so I know he had a great relationship with Austin, especially because of Antones. I don't know, I was so young and so dumb back then, you know, I didn't know the magnitude of what Also City Limits was all about, you know, until the years passed by and I played with him on there. And then once I had my. They had me on there, you know, now I see it and I'm like, wow, that's a big deal. Sometimes things don't dawn on you. The hindsight is 20 20, you know.
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Podcast Host
What lessons did your father teach you musically and personally that still guide your approach in your career today?
- [14:21]
CJ Chenier
Well, musically we only sat down one time and played together in Chicago somewhere where we was hanging out and we were staying in his basement apartment and hanging out around the kitchen. And he had his acquire and I had mine and we played together. But he mostly gave me pointers. You know, my whole. Everything I learned came from standing next to him, watching him. Even in a musical life, I paid attention how he did business, you know, what he did and how he did it. You know, it was. He wasn't like, I need you to do this, I need you to do that. Let me show you how to. He wasn't that kind of person. He was just Being him. And by him being him, I was watching him like a hawk, man. I was paying attention like eyes on all the time. Because I was learning, you know, Like I said, I got in there, I was 20 years old. I'm 68 now. I got there, 20 years old, coming out of a funk band. All of a sudden I was like I said I was on the stage with the King of Zydeco. And I didn't know anything. But he had patience with me. He let me learn. The band had patience with me. They let me learn. And it was all from doing, not telling and showing it. It was all from doing it. My first night on the first gig I ever played was at Tipucinos. And I'd never been in front of an audience before. But he told me that night, I need you to open a show for me. Because he got sick and things changed a little bit. So he put me in front of the audience at Tipucino's in New Orleans for the first time I ever really played a accordion in front of an audience. It also me watching, paying attention. Of course I played Hot Rod because that's pretty much what I do. A couple of boogie songs because I heard him play them. But, you know, it was all hands on experience.
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Podcast Host
When you pick up the accordion today, do you feel the weight of his, of his legacy, you know, his spirit with you at all times?
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CJ Chenier
Yes, I do. But I often think about him, you know, when I'm on stage and I'm getting. I'm looking out of the audience and I tell myself, oh, my daddy would be here now. He'd be pretty proud of what's going on. Especially when I sing that song, I'm Coming Home. Bring back things, you know, There's a.
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Podcast Host
New interest in roots music and regional traditions. Which I think is so fantastic. What do you think zydeco offers listeners today that they might be missing in, you know, contemporary music?
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CJ Chenier
The naturalism is a natural music. I mean, just the style my daddy created. It wasn't the kind of stuff you just go write down on paper and write the phone out and stuff like that. It's pretty much similar to blues. It's all about the feel. If you can't feel it. I mean, writing it down on paper really won't do a whole lot for you, but show you the notes. It's a feel music and he felt it better than anybody. Even when he got sick, he might struggle playing some stuff. But when it came to real zydeco, which is drums, washboard and accordion only That's a real zydeco song. When it came to that, I don't care how he felt. He always played that to the maximum effect all the time.
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Podcast Host
You know, we have this other podcast, it's called Music Saved Me. And it's really about kind of the therapeutic aspects of music, the healing powers of music. In my opinion, music in general has those powers, but in particular, I feel like Zydeco really has those, those therapeutic powers. I dare say, cj, I think you'd probably agree, wouldn't you?
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CJ Chenier
Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had people come up to me and say, you know, I was having a bad day today. He said, but when you hear this music, you just can't stay sad and you can't sit still. And it's the truth. You know, it's like you could, you could come to that show feeling a certain way, but the music is so infectious that before it's over with, you're gonna have a big old smile on your face. No matter what kind of day you had, if you had enough in you to show up at that show, you're not gonna leave that feel the same way.
- [19:05]
Podcast Host
What would your father think about the box set and about the, you know, the hundred year celebration? Do you think he'd be surprised, bashful about the recognition? How would he feel?
- [19:15]
CJ Chenier
I think he'd feel good about it because, you know, there's a lot of time my dad felt like he wasn't, you know, people, especially when he got ill and, you know, his health start feeling, you know, kind of felt slighted a little bit, you know, it's because when he first started off, when you heard the name Cliff, everybody was going to be there, you know, it don't matter. All you had to do was hear that name and they showing up, they going to the La La to hear Cliff play the zydeco and they were there, you know. But, you know, after he start his hell start feeling and, you know, he kind of sometimes felt like people were kind of pushing him aside. You know, a lot of people don't know he felt that way, but I do. And I think right now he saw attention people were giving him. Right now he probably wish it happened while he was still living like I do, but if he could see it right now, I think he'd be happy about it. Yeah.
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Podcast Host
Isn't that sad that in the moment the great ones don't always get the deserved recognition and then they pass on and then it's. It's it's different recognition. It's. It's. It shouldn't be that way, you know?
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CJ Chenier
No, it shouldn't. Especially when you have somebody like him. I mean, think about it. My dad invented an instrument. I don't know if anybody else in the United States ever invented an instrument, but good thing Chenier did. He invented the Fatoire, you know, he designed it. And with the help of a metal worker, Mr. Eddie Landry, they came up with that instrument, you know. And he never knew nothing about patenting and all that kind of junk. All he knew is he wanted something better for his brother to play than the old wooden thing used to tie with a string around your neck, you know, they wash your clothes with. And he came up with that instrument. So, you know, he's a pioneer in different aspects. Zydeco music and fatois. I don't think he ever got enough credit for being that instrument.
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Podcast Host
A hundred years from now, when people listen to your dad's music, what do you hope they hear and understand about him and the world that he came from?
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CJ Chenier
Well, you know, a lot of. A lot of people when I first started playing with him, you know, didn't have a clue, you know, what zydeco was. As a matter of fact, some people say, what is zydeco? And I'm like, no, it's not the right way to say that. It's exotico. But I think through his hard work, man, and finally getting people to recognize our fun, because it was different, you know, it wasn't some polished album that you go in the studio and do. We redo it. He went in the studio, it was going to be one take, and that was it. So all this music is really natural with natural sound. And I hope 100 years from now people are able to hear that. Wow, this guy was natural. You know, you don't have all those additives, you know, all the stuff you need to put in there to make a sound, the pitch control and the different effects and all this. He didn't have none of that. It was all natural. Clifton Cheniere, hands on the accordion.
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Podcast Host
CJ as we wrap up, is there one thing that we might not have captured here or that wasn't in the recording or the box set that you would want people to know about your daddy?
- [22:50]
CJ Chenier
My daddy didn't look at being as king of the zycho, as some kind of gimmick or some kind of fad like that. That was his life for real, you know, and the times he took that crown and put it on his head is because he felt good about it that night. He felt good about the show, he felt good about the people. So you put it on. He didn't wear it all the time. And also, I like people to know that Victor Chenier lived the King of Zydeco. It wasn't a joke to him. It wasn't a gimmick. It's his real life.
- [23:23]
Podcast Host
It's brilliant. Smithsonian Folkways capturing the King of Louisiana Blues and zydeco. Clifton Chenier, C.J. chenier, a tremendous honor speaking to you. I hope you know that you're always welcome back anytime.
- [23:40]
CJ Chenier
Thank you very much.
- [23:43]
Podcast Outro Host
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking A Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:02]
Spencer Graves
A man with down syndrome tries the impossible, the grand slam in turkey hunting.
- [24:07]
Justin
4:53 hits. We're legal, shooting light. And he gives us this one last judgement.
- [24:13]
CJ Chenier
Ow.
- [24:14]
Justin
And he pitches off. And when he pitches off, he flies right into the gun barrel. I said to the cameraman, do you have him? He said, shoot him. I said, justin, shoot.
- [24:24]
Spencer Graves
You can download this episode and others from Lines and Tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:33]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [24:35]
CJ Chenier
Guaranteed Human.