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Music Saved Me : A Story of Redemption and Resilience with Austin John Winkler
00:21:32
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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast.
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B
Music saved Me.
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A
I think that being vulnerable is a very important part of an artist's job. If you're sending, if you're writing songs about your life, even, you know, like, be honest, be as honest as you can because deep down you know you're human. Everybody's human on this, on this earth. And somebody's going to feel the exact same way if you're just honest with yourself.
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B
I'm Lynne Hoffman, the host of the Music Saved Me podcast, the podcast podcast that goes behind the scenes with musicians and entertainers and explores the healing power of music. Now, if you like this podcast, thank you and please follow our companion podcast hosted by the incredible Buzz Knight called Taking a Walk, which is available wherever you get your podcasts now. Like most celebrities from the days of mtv, my next guest is a multi platinum selling rock star and former frontman who is no stranger to the temptations of addiction. After a decade of fighting for his own survival, Austin John Winkler, formerly of the band Hinder, has done the hard work of finding his footing and rekindling his lost love of music. Can you believe lost love? I can't even believe I'm saying that. With a brand new musical entity he created called the Founder, which symbolizes his artistic rebirth. He also has a brand new six track EP called Walking Dead which we'll talk about. An eagerness to use his newfound freedom to help others who are working through those same demons by letting them all know that they are not alone in their fight. Just the perfect guest for Music Saved Me. Austin John Winkler, welcome to the show. It is so good to see you and have you here.
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A
Thank you so much, Lynn. And it's good to be here.
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B
Well, first, let's just talk a little bit about this new entity, the Founder. It's a sanctuary for where you're creating all of your new musical creations. Can you tell me a little bit about that? And when that started, yeah, I wanted.
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A
To just get in and, and I just had this one song is actually the title track, Walking Dead. And I was just like, all right, I'm just gonna do one song and just do a single. And it kind of, it really turned out like, I don't know, to me, really raw. A lot more raw than, than kind of my polished stuff that I'd done in the past and, and the lyrics are a little more raw. And I was like, okay, well I'm gonna do another one. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do another one. And so I just, I kept on recording him and it just, I, I saw this body of work and I saw this whole kind of new approach to, to recording and, you know, I didn't want to ever put out anything again that I wasn't going to be in full control of. And so that's kind of how the founder was, was born, is that I, I, I was able to put my whole heart into something again, you know, for the first time in a while. And I told myself, if I ever do that again, I'm going to make sure that I'm, I'm only putting in all the creative into it.
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B
So can, can you share that moment? Was there, was there a moment like that epiphany that you realized that music was going to be this, this lifeline during your darkest times, considering your past with music?
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A
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, to be honest, that means we have to go back even further to like to 2020.
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B
Okay.
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A
And I, I had just, I was, I was on dialysis because my liver and kidney had failed due to excessive years of, of partying. I was, I was what, what you'd call a disposal. I, I would, whatever I can get my hands done, I was, I was going to do. And I was like nine months on dialysis and I was strumming the guitar and I was just, I, I hadn't, I hadn't been in love with music for a while just, just because I've been through so much in this industry. And I, I started writing a song called Super Jaded and I like hit a C chord on a chorus and that was the moment, at least for me, that I fell back in love with music. I, after I had written that song and heard it back, like, I cried in my hotel room at like 2am Just like. And I could feel myself just like my body releasing from this music healing vibration. Like me hearing myself going, you know what? I think I still got this thing in me. And yeah, that's, that just like started like a complete new love for music and for me going, you know what, I'm, I may give this thing another go.
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B
Well, I mean, you have spoken very openly, as you are now, about your battle with the addiction. And the dialysis was, you know, so young. It just, it blew me away that you were able to. I mean, that truly is a low moment. Yeah. For someone sitting there thinking about their life, I mean, it's right in the palm of your hands.
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A
Yeah.
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B
To do with, it's pretty incredible.
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A
Thank you.
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B
How did those experiences change your perspective on life and music?
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A
Man, I'll tell you, I'm still processing it. It's still something that was just so crazy. It's like somebody picked me up and shook me and then set me back down. And I still. I'm still processing it. Like, even this is. This is me processing it. Because as soon as I found out that what happened is I was. I was allotted. The doctor said, okay, you know what? We're going to take you off dialysis for two weeks. And my brain didn't even think about it. I'm like, I got to go record this song. So he took me off dialysis for two weeks. I flew to Nashville. We recorded super jaded in this, like, tiny shed of. Of my guitar players. Now is as crazy as that sounds. And then I go back, I fly back as expecting to get back on dialysis. And he was like, you know what? We're. We're good. We're gonna. We're gonna keep you off of it for. For two months or three months or whatever it was. And I was like, okay. Crazy. So I. I haven't even still had time to process all of that crazy stuff. But, I mean, I will tell you what it's like to walk in to dialysis, like a dialysis center at 5am, four days a week, five hours at a time. And I'm 37 years old at the time or 38 years old at the time. And on. Everybody else is 70 and on the way. I'm the youngest guy in there. And everybody's just in there just kind of sitting like this, you know, And I was like, is this. I had accepted it. I had accepted this is my life now, I guess. But I was diligent in what the doctors told me to do. And whenever he said two weeks off, I booked my flight the next day, and I was out and hit the ground. Yeah.
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B
That is just so powerful, what you just said. I mean, literally, you're cleaning your blood, which is what we need to live the rest of our lives. And you got that one moment of clarity where maybe you could turn this around. So do you think music had an impact as well in your healing when you got to performing that after you left for a couple of weeks?
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A
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's. It's more therapy now than it's ever been. Even when I, you know, first started, I. I feel much more connected to what I'm putting out now. And not that I wasn't connected to it. I was just. I was literally a different person than. I mean, coming out at 24 years old, I was that. That party Guy, I was everything on those records. Like, that's who I was at the time. And I've always been attached to it.
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B
It was like a machine.
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A
It was. Yeah, absolutely.
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B
I'm curious about Music Cares and in other support systems that sort of played a role in your recovery. How did they work and how important do you think it is for artists, especially artists, to have access to these types of resources?
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A
Man, Music Cares has done so much for me. Whenever I was really in need of a lot of help and they took me in. They took care of, like, my. My entire. Getting your scholarship for my. For my rehab 90 days. Like, I mean, they really take care of their own. And I'd love to do anything. If they ever have anything to do, I'd love to volunteer my time to help them out. I mean, they truly help. Really help people out.
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B
How did you find out about them?
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A
My therapists at the time was connected to them in Malibu, and she hooked me up with. With them.
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B
Wow. There. There has to be. I mean, being in this industry as long as you have and I have on. On my role, it's amazing how little there is put out for artists. You know, when they're the ones entertaining the masses who need it so badly, they're providing this therapy, but they don't have any access to understanding that it's even out there for them.
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A
You know, I'll tell you this, like, my therapist now who. Who. Who does amazing work, she's. She started to have to go to, like, Coachella and these big festivals, and she'll have a tent, and she's like, well, these artists. These artists are too big. They're. They're. They're. They're not going to have any time. And she is booked solid. Like, she'll go in and she'll be booked from the time she gets there, because these. Because people nowadays, I mean, they're actually. They are starting to wake up and realize that, hey, this business is designed to isolate you. Like, no matter the bigger you get, the smaller your world gets. And she's providing safe space for big artists to go in and be like, you know what? This is what I'm dealing with on the road, and this is what I can't deal with and stuff like that. And it's really quite remarkable to see that. And I love seeing that.
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B
Yeah, me too. Was there a specific song or, like, a moment that you felt that music truly saved you?
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A
You know, like I said, I think it was that. That super jaded song. I mean, when I say save, I Mean like music saves me in general. Right, right. When I say save, I mean that made me fall in love with music again. Meaning that I needed that to fall back in line with something that saved my whole life. Like, I mean, before I even started hinder at 19, I was getting arrested and I was like, I was, I was a train wreck of a 19 year old kid. And a couple weeks later I started hindering. I got online. You know, I felt like I found my calling of stick to music.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
Or you're, or you're gonna get off track. And that's what happened, you know, whenever I left, whenever I ended up leaving the band in 2013, is that I didn't have that main thing is my support anymore. I felt. And I got off the rails, man, like seven years of, of some pretty dark stuff that I ended up getting into. So.
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B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's true. You don't even realize, you know, how vulnerable you are and how much you give that. You don't check yourself. Like it brings meaning to the word, you know, oxygen mask on you first and then you can help others. But.
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A
Right.
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B
Sometimes you see that.
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So much truth.
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B
Yeah, right. How does vulnerability play into your songwriting and help you with your process, with healing or with pain?
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A
Man, it's, it's something that, that I feel like I'm getting, I mean, even more, I'm getting even more personal. I feel like with, especially with this founder stuff because I think that being vulnerable is a very important part of an artist's job. If you're sending, if you're writing songs about your life even, you know, like, be honest. Be as honest as you can because deep down you know, you're human. Everybody's human on this, on this earth. And somebody's going to feel the exact same way if you're just honest with, with yourself. I mean, look at Lips of an angel, to be honest, like that, that happened to me and I wrote it the next day, like, and it was just, it was 15, 20 minutes. But it was something so true and very vulnerable. I mean, it ended up actually causing me a lot of problems with my personal life.
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B
But how crazy is that? You know something?
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A
So I've been vulnerable since day one.
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B
You know, just trying to figure out how to work it so that you're protected.
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A
Oh yeah.
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B
You know, it's funny, I was reading after stepping away from Hinder that you had mentioned this. I couldn't believe this. I said it in the open that you, you sort of fell out of love with music. Which is incredible. So you must have really been really in a tough spot. What helped you rekindle that passion? I think the quote was something like, I learned how to be from mtv. But then it almost, that almost ruined you. Really?
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A
Yeah, no, that was, that was something that, I mean, it's, I'm kind of half kidding, but kind of not. Like I, I, I loved watching MTV as a kid and I, and I wanted to be a part of that world. And, you know, I read the dirt right before I went out on tour. Like, it was, it was all kind of playing out exactly what I think, you know what I mean? And I went down all the steps. You know, I married the girl in the music video. Like I did everything you shouldn't do. I mean, as long as it's crazy as that sounds like that's kind of how I feel. Like the MTV raised me kind of thing, you know?
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B
Yeah, but how, like, it's amazing to me that you even went back. Well to begin with. But, but in 23 though, you released Lips of an angel again as a duet, and There was like 3 million downloads and you had been off the scene for quite a while. That must have been an incredible feeling to know that your fans are still out there craving for more.
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A
No, that's, that was, that was a surreal experience. I mean, I couldn't believe it. I was back in the booth with the producer Brian House, who did the first one, and it was, you know, Shaelyn was, did an amazing job and it was, it was surreal. It's, it's, it's amazing to know that there's still people out there that, that are digging the music.
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B
Has your approach changed at all in terms of how you write songs since you entered recovery?
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A
No, like I said, like, it's like with this founder stuff, it's just a little more raw and, and, you know, it's, it's very personal. It, it hasn't changed. Like I said, I mean, I've been vulnerable since day one. Like, I've laid it out there as clear as day as long as I've been writing songs.
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B
How important is it for you to help others who are challenged?
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A
Man, I read every single comment that people write on songs that I'm a part of, and it's very important to me because I know I've been on the other side of that and I still, I'm always on the other side of that. Like, music, Music helps me all the time, daily. And to be able to write something that connects with somebody who is going through the same thing as you. And to be able to go on stage and sing that and them sing it back to you is an indescribable feeling. Like, that is more rewarding than any amount of numbers in a bank account or any. Anything I can own. Like, that is something I share with the fans, and that is something that is sacred to me.
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B
That's so special that. That you do that and also that you care enough that. That you want to do that through your music to help others. And is it. It's a therapy for. For everyone involved. Really, it lifts everybody up?
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A
Yeah, absolutely. Like, you go to the show and it's like, okay, it's like a little church or whatever for people who go on through heavy shit. Like, that's what. That's what it is.
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B
It's pretty amazing. How do you think that the music industry. I know we talked about this earlier in terms of charitable organizations that are out there, but what do you think that the music industry as a whole could do to better support its artists? I mean, we're in a whole new world. It's a lot different than before, where we were just apples and oranges represented by agencies, and now it's really, you know, you can pick and choose who you want to represent you, what message you want to put out there.
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A
That's it for sure. I mean, my advice that I would even tell my younger self would be like, dude, it's okay to say no. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to do every single thing that gets thrown into your lap. I mean, that. That drains you. It doesn't matter what kind of line of work you're in, if you're just saying yes to everything, especially if you're doing something you love and it starts to get tarnished with. With so much that they pile on your plate. I mean, the bigger you get, the busier you get. And, I mean, I would. I would tell my younger. I tell my younger self to be like, dude, say no to once in a while. Like, get some rest. Like. Like, it's important for you to take care of you before you can take care of, you know, the person on stage. So, I mean, I think, like I said, them having, you know, therapy tents instead of, you know, swag tents, I think are. Will. Will play, will go a long way and keep. Keep big artists, you know, or smartwaters. It doesn't matter who it is. Keep them in line and keep them grounded from the small success, you know, that we have had. It was crazy out there. It was crazy.
- [18:10]
B
I remember, I mean, I was working actually at a radio station not long before your first real big hit song came on, about 20 years ago up in Boston. And I just remember, I mean, you were on heavy rotation. Lips of an angel was just a smash, but you had a lot of other songs as well. You were, you know, rising up. And just as I was leaving town, heading to New York, and it was, it's exciting to see that you've been able to really turn this whole thing around because it really is inspiring and that you're willing to put yourself out there for your fans as vulnerable as you are, to show them that even people like yourself has issues that you have to work through. And it's, you know, the biggest thing for me is when people who rise to the, the big levels have such a responsibility. And I always felt like you should never squander that responsibility to help others when you have forged your own path like that. Because there's so many who don't know how.
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A
Right, right. No, it's, it's definitely, you know, and you don't, I mean, you don't realize the responsibility you have. Obviously, I, I, I, you know, it was hard for me to see that until I was out of, of how.
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B
Can you got the machine behind you like that? You're like, what stage am I? What town am I at? Where's my clothes?
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A
You're definitely somewhat of a, of a robot, in some sense, is arrows pointing. You, you just, you're following a path and you don't even know. You're just following the person to the stage or you're following the person to the radio station or the hotel or whatever. Like, you're just, you're on autopilot sometimes, and it, it's really, really good to not do that. And if you can do some things to break that up, that would be great.
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B
What would you like your legacy to be? Not just as a musician, but as someone who's overcome significant personal challenges.
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A
Just to be honest, it would be just somebody that fights for what he loves. Like, I love music again. And, you know, I have days where I'm like, am I still, am I still good? Or is this worthy of, of going out and touring and stuff like that? And it's, you know, I, I think it's just, it's going to be the legacy or whatever, just somebody that obviously loved music and wanted to share his music with the world and wanted to connect with people because this, this, this rock or whatever that we're spinning on there or is insanely malicious. I mean, it can, it can be a beautiful, beautiful place, and it can be so malicious. And I just want to be known for maybe taking time, whatever. I come to the city and it just kind of pushes everything. Everything's on pause for a minute and you can sit and scream your head off to rock and roll songs.
- [21:08]
B
I love it. And I love your videos, especially. They're really great. Austin John Wayne Winkler, congratulations on getting to where you are in life and your successes. Thank you for sharing them with us on music saved me, and good luck in everything that you do in the future. And please come back and see us again when you have your next EP or dare I say album. But everything's coming back, so you never know.
- [21:33]
A
Absolutely. Thank you so much. This is an iHeart podcast.