← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
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- [00:00]
Lynne Hoffman
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
AJ Croce
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- [03:37]
Better Music Saved Me we can all overthink stuff and I think that's the beauty of the art of music is never overthinking. I mean, I practice every day, I practice guitar, I practice piano, I practice writing. It's what I love to do.
- [03:54]
Lynne Hoffman
Welcome to another episode of Music Saved Me, the podcast where we explore the transform power of music through the stories of artists, songwriters and musicians who have found hope, healing and inspiration in their craft. I'm your host, Lynne Hoffman and by the way, if you like this podcast, we would love for you to check out our companion podcast that I also host called Comedy Saved Me, which showcases the healing power of laughter. Today, we are so honored to welcome a very special guest, AJ Croce. As a celebrated singer, songwriter and pianist, AJ is carved out a unique path in the world of music, blending soulful blues, rock and pop influences. The son of legendary musician Jim Croce, AJ has faced his own share of challenges and personal loss, yet he has consistently turned to music as a source of comfort and resilience. And on this episode, AJ shares his journey from growing up surrounded by music to overcoming adversity and forging his own identity as an artist. We'll talk about the songs that shaped his life, some of the stories behind his acclaimed albums, and how music has been both a lifeline and a source of joy throughout his career. So settle in for an inspiring conversation about creativity, perseverance and the healing magic of music with the one and only AJ Croce right here on Music Saved Me. AJ welcome to Music Saved Me. It's so wonderful to have you here.
- [05:26]
AJ Croce
Thank you, Lynn, I appreciate it.
- [05:28]
Lynne Hoffman
Now I want to start sort of in the early side of things with you because this is something that blew me away when first read about you. First of all, you lost your dad when you were much, much younger, very young.
- [05:42]
AJ Croce
And then you lost your eyesight a couple years later. When I was 4, I lost my sight, lost my father at 2. And I was in the hospital for six months during that period of the loss of sight.
- [05:57]
Lynne Hoffman
Wow.
- [05:58]
AJ Croce
Regained partially. I got light in, in my left eye and so there was hope. It took about six years before I could see out of my left eye again. So I was completely blind and legally blind during that time. And music saved me. It really did. I mean, as a kid I had my father's record collection, which was so diverse and amazing. I mean, all the good stuff as a kid, you know, I would, I, you know, I would find the good stuff I couldn't see, but I would always put it on the left side. So I'm left handed. So I'd reach for one of those records. And, you know, I got turned on to Ray Charles really early and Stevie Wonder because of, for obvious reasons of losing sight and just inspiration and. Yeah, and they were a foundation for me. You know, Ray Charles played all kinds of music and I can hear it in the other stuff that was in the collection from Fats Waller and Bessie Smith and the Lady Behind Me and, and there was great blues and folk and country music, all kinds of rock and roll and Little Richard. I mean, that stuff, it just, it blew me away. And as a kid, it was my, it was my sanctuary. It was, it was everything. So, you know, I started playing piano along with that stuff before I could see.
- [07:19]
Lynne Hoffman
Wow, that's incredible. But it definitely shows how you can pull on the other senses that become extremely powerful at that time.
- [07:28]
AJ Croce
Yeah, the sense I think people don't necessarily think about is the sense of heart, the sense of soul and intention. I think when you lose a particular sense, you are vulnerable in a particular way. And so you find a way to sort of compensate. And in that way, recognizing decent people from indecent is really important at a young age, you know, and understanding the intentions of, of the things that you're seeing or hearing or feeling is, is really important. So it's not always like, oh, I, you know, I couldn't see, so I could hear Better it wasn't. You're forced to listen harder. You're not. It's not that you hear better, you know, it's not that you taste more. It's. It's. It's not like synesthesia or something. It's just kind of necessity.
- [08:44]
Lynne Hoffman
Mm. I never really even thought about it that way. But you're so right. When you. You're forced into it, you have really no choice but to rely on those senses to make it. I'm just curious. When were you aware of your dad and his incredible accomplishments in this world?
- [09:04]
AJ Croce
I guess I grew up from the earliest days. I mean, my first concert was. I was brought as a baby to hear my dad and Randy New, you know, and Rand Human played a big role. You know, they were on tour together for a year, on and off for a year. And, you know, my father's career was 18 months. You know, his entire professional career. All the songs, you know, were written, recorded, and toured in 18 months. So it's three albums, 18 months and done. And so it was a relatively short period of time.
- [09:43]
Lynne Hoffman
Wow. Were there artists or genres that inspired you early on that made you feel like this was something that you could do as your art form?
- [09:54]
AJ Croce
Yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned, Ray Charles was. He was my gateway drug. You know, in the collection, there was stuff like Fats Waller. There was stuff like Little Richard. There were wonderful piano players in that mix. But I, as. As I got older, really went down that. That rabbit hole of piano players, you know, from the stride guys like James B. Johnson and Willie the Lion to the. To the boogie guys and like Mead, Lux Lewis and Albert Ammons, Pete Johnson, the swing guys like Ellington and Basie and so many others. I mean, I could name the jazz piano players for probably 45 minutes or an hour, and it all played a role. So whether it was rock and roll and listening to the way that the English bands interpreted blues and someone like Ian McLaughlin and how he played with the Small Faces and the Faces and Dylan and the Stones, Ian Stewart, all those guys that were Steve Winwood, that were really interpreting an American tradition. And as a kid, I liked a lot of that. But it was in my teens I started to recognize what they did that was different, kind of simplified what the American players were doing. It was just part of, like, gaining knowledge and learning. And so it was, you know, when I first met Leon Russell, before we started writing together, it was one of those things where we just spoke about piano players for an hour, you know, because then we had the same. Apparently grew up with the same record.
- [11:43]
Lynne Hoffman
Collection you geek out with. So, like, I love that.
- [11:46]
AJ Croce
Yeah. And, and of course I loved his music and, and his playing and, and songwriting, but it was, it was really our deeper connection to, to being piano players, you know, and the New Orleans stuff played a huge role. Alan Toussaint, from the time I was about 13, I, as a kid, my mom would sing me some of these songs. Lee Dorsey Working in a coal mine, things that, that Alan Toussaint had written. I knew the songs, heard him on the radio, all of the great artists that he worked with. But it didn't click until I was about 13 and I went to see Jim Jarmusch movie and I think it was like Stranger than Paradise or something. And, and there was a version of Irma Thomas singing It's Raining and. Which is an Alan Toussaint production song. He's playing and singing on it. And I just had to know everything about the music, where it came from, who it wasn't, just.
- [12:49]
Lynne Hoffman
It wasn't.
- [12:50]
AJ Croce
Because it was complicated. Like the complicated stuff. I was already diving into the jazz and the blues and the stride and all of that, but gospel and soul music, but it was something that was, in its simplicity, could communicate such depth that I had to understand how it was done.
- [13:11]
Lynne Hoffman
Wow. I mean, that's fascinating that you would even pick up on that. Was there anything in there that told you that this is healing me? Or when you realized that music could be healing for not only the musicians but the people listening to it?
- [13:30]
AJ Croce
I knew that from the earliest point in my life, you know, as a kid that lost his sight.
- [13:36]
Lynne Hoffman
Right.
- [13:37]
AJ Croce
Being able to sit down and play a piece of music was. It was more than just healing. It was empowering. It was incredibly powerful. I knew that it was my refuge. And at a certain point I recognized that I was able to sort of communicate that to, you know, to a small audience. You know, I played my first gig at 12 for money. And where were you? It was for a, it was for a bat mitzvah and I love it. The Silverman Bat mitzvah and, and it was 20 bucks. And I played, I played Ray Charles and Chuck Berry and Memphis Slim and I'm sure a few other, you know, oddball things for a 12 year old to be playing, but it was, was what I was listening to is what I would do. And so, you know, at that point I realized I got 20 bucks. Wow. If I keep practicing and really work hard at this, I might be able to do this for a living, you know.
- [14:48]
Lynne Hoffman
Amazing. How do you Channel these personal experiences, both, you know, the joy and the pain into. Into your songwriting. I'm curious.
- [14:58]
AJ Croce
Well, it's all there. I mean, it's all here. It's in us all the time. It's not about. I don't think it needs to be channeled as much as it just. You need to be. I think there's a part of it where you need to let go. I think letting go is more of it's. It's. It's losing a sense of control as opposed to trying to control the environment by letting go of the idea that what you might write or say or play is not good, or there's a mistake, or you're, you know, some. Or. Or it's been done before, or I've heard that line, or I've heard that passage, or the melody of that is similar to this, or the chord structure is similar. Forget it. It's an exercise. No one needs to hear it. This is about being completely free and being able to, in that way, access the beauty of what's around you all the time, what's in you all the time. Really. It's trying to channel things. I think that makes it harder to get there.
- [16:13]
Lynne Hoffman
Yes. And, you know, it's interesting that you would say that for my next question. That really makes me curious. Finding your own voice.
- [16:24]
AJ Croce
Now.
- [16:24]
Lynne Hoffman
You've already faced such adversity from such a young age. You've already figured out at a young age how to use music to heal not only yourself, but others and to be strong and fearless almost in a way. Did it ever occur to you that you had to sort of identify yourself as your own artist because of the fame that your dad had? I mean, I would think that. That another roadblock that you would have to overcome.
- [16:50]
AJ Croce
Absolutely. It was. It was the. It was probably the biggest roadblock. And. And I don't know if it was only external. I think it was internal as well.
- [17:01]
Lynne Hoffman
Right.
- [17:02]
AJ Croce
I think that the fact that in my. Up until my 30s, I didn't play guitar. So piano was first of all was my. Was my instrument. And. And it was. So by that, by being. Playing a different instrument, I was already a little bit separate. By the fact that I was playing more complicated music. And it, albeit, you know, maybe from my grandparents generation, some of it was from my parents generation. There were, you know, a few groups of my generation that I was. I was really, really liked a lot. But it was. I was looking for a timelessness. It wasn't about when the music was from or whatever. I was looking for finding a way to create something that could have been written, you know, 150 years ago, or it could have been written yesterday. And not knowing when that is gives you this flexibility. I think as an, as an artist, each component of what I do as a performer in communicating with an audience, that's one skill set that took development as a singer. That was another skill that took, that took developing and understanding and work as a piano player. That was its own thing. Being a piano player was its own thing separate from playing any other instrument or other keyboard, keyboard instruments or anything. And then as a songwriter and, you know, I think some people might think that it all comes together and is, is developed simultaneously and there's a part of it, if you're working on each facet that is simultaneous. Because by becoming a better musician, you're giving yourself a better platform to write a better song, to create a better melody. And, and by living life, the longer you live, the better understanding of the world around you, you might have. But it all developed differently for me, you know, I think I was a stronger piano player when I was, you know, in my late teens than I was a singer. I think the songwriting sort of came up in between the two. And, you know, I had bad habits as a singer because I really came up in, in jazz clubs and blues clubs where there was no amplification. So I was shouting over the piano and, and shouting over an instrument that large, you, you know, you tend to, you know, raspy real fast. And I was, I had bad habits. You know, for the first 10 years of touring, you know, it was creating issues and it, you know, you learn along the way, you learn to be better at what you do and improve and continue to learn.
- [20:14]
Lynne Hoffman
That is so true. And Hindsight is so 2020, isn't it? And when people say terms like that to you, they may not mean anything at the time, but then you look back and you go, oh, that's, that's why someone told me that. Or that's. That mean it means so much more. And you did blend a lot of really cool stuff. I mean, blues, rock and pop and jazz and all of that is. It's so unique.
- [20:39]
AJ Croce
We'll be right back with more of the music Save me podcast.
- [20:45]
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- [23:07]
Lynne Hoffman
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AJ Croce
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- [24:29]
Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast.
- [24:32]
Lynne Hoffman
Can you walk us? Well, I think you just did a little bit of your creative process. When you're, when you're making, like when you're writing a new song or putting together a new album, is there anything that you do specifically to get in.
- [24:44]
AJ Croce
That head frame or, you know, each record is. Is. It's kind of unique. And I've found in being able to look back with 2020 vision, the only time I've had that.
- [24:58]
Lynne Hoffman
No pun intended. Oh, my gosh.
- [25:00]
AJ Croce
Looking back, I think. I think I've seen albums sort of work in threes. The first one is kind of just getting into finding this sound and space and storytelling style that is working. It's like a palette. And I felt like it kind of functioned that way throughout. Throughout my career. You know, on my 11th, just released the 11th album. And it sort of works in threes in that you have a palette of colors you're working with and they are used, and you find new ways to use those to create new music and songs. And you might work in that period with five or six or seven different chord changes that are unique to themselves. Tempos, time signatures, all of these things that are relevant to that period of time. And then by the end of that third album, I find that I'm already ready to do something new. And I've used those colors and I'll continue to be able to use that because I perform live all the time, which means that the music from those albums is still present. It's. I don't need to put it away. It's in fact, because I'm not putting it away, I'm able To move to something else, find new inspirations, you know, different styles of music, different genres of music. Whether it's Latin music or whether it's, you know, West African influences or Indian scales or whatever it might be, Western, European, classical music. There's no limitations to it, but it's. For me, it sort of comes in threes.
- [26:55]
Lynne Hoffman
Interesting. You're like a musical athlete.
- [26:59]
AJ Croce
I don't know, you know, it takes a. This is a calling, you know, this is. This is. I've worn a lot of hats in the business of music because it's a necessity, certainly as an artist, I think, you know, my first couple albums were on a major label, and then I was on Indies. And I figured once I was on. On Indies, I really had to learn every facet of the business. Because the bottom line is, you know, the artist is paying for everything. And so you want to make sure you know where the money's going. You want to make sure that you're responsible with it because this is your livelihood. And as time changed and a lot of different changes in the. In the business itself, I had to be aware of it. And yeah, not more than just adapt. I had to be involved, and I had to be more than just involved, but engaged.
- [28:04]
Lynne Hoffman
No, that, you know, somebody very smart, and I wish I could remember who it was in my life growing up when I was younger, told me, whatever it is you want to do in life, the job that it is, make sure that when you get there, you also get to know how everyone else does their jobs.
- [28:19]
AJ Croce
Right.
- [28:20]
Lynne Hoffman
Because it will make your life much easier. And also you'll have a better understanding. So that. I've never actually heard anyone say that before, especially being an artist. So that's. That's pretty cool. I mean, that must also mean you've got both sides of the brain firing at the same time, which can also be a detriment to some of us. You never get anything done.
- [28:40]
AJ Croce
You can all overthink stuff. And. And I think that's the beauty of. Of the art of music, is never overthinking. I mean, I practice every day. I practice guitar, I practice piano, practice writing. It's what I love to do. And I need to be able to live life in between the recording and the touring and the writing and the practice, because that's where all of the stories come from.
- [29:08]
Lynne Hoffman
It's where you would draw your inspiration. Right.
- [29:10]
AJ Croce
And the bottom line is that. Is that whether it's instrumental or there's lyrics to a song, you're telling a story. I think it's really important to be able to tell a universal story in a very clear way. Obviously it's universal. So you want anyone that's listening to be able to get it maybe not be their style or may, may not, may not be what some people listen to, but they're going to appreciate that it's a complete and well crafted story. And that's the goal is writing a timeless universal story and having a beginning, a middle and an end. And the frame that you put around it, which is the production can vary. It can be as simple as metaphorically as a magnet that goes on a fridge or a beautiful ornate, you know, rococo frames that has a lot to say and contribute to the art inside of it.
- [30:10]
Lynne Hoffman
And I love that you brought that up though. And I love that you brought up the fact that you have to live a certain way in order to create these masterpieces. And in order to do that, you have to know like oxygen mask on you first. If you can't live that lifestyle that you want to live to be inspired to write these songs, then where are you? You know, so it's almost like you need to know what to do when you are successful.
- [30:38]
AJ Croce
I don't know that I ever think about the success factor because I feel that being able to do what I love is a success. And I don't ever think of anything as being a masterpiece. It's an exercise.
- [30:51]
Lynne Hoffman
I call it that though, because I think anyone who can do what you do. Well, that's just my personal.
- [30:57]
AJ Croce
Well, that's very, that's very kind. I think of it as an exercise. Some, some of them, you know, just like, just like an etude, you know, of, of Chopin's. These were, these were practice scales. They were working with every key. They were working with, with all of these different facets that were designed to teach his, his students. And in the process, some of them, you know, became, I guess from the outside world, you know, masterpieces or, or at least a masterpiece of how to exercise and practice. And I think that's, that's sort of the thing. I've never known anyone that finished a song and went, oh, that's, that is a masterpiece. I don't think I'd hang out with him if I didn't meet that person. I think you just, you finish something and you're like, okay, I think we did good with your co writing or I accomplished what I wanted. And sometimes, you know, you're like, I said it all in three verses and a chorus. I don't need a bridge. If you can't say things succinctly and communicate an idea in two and a half to three minutes, which is kind of the mass, maximum attention span of most people. Then you need to look at it and see what you can do. And I think that's another facet of songwriting. I've written with the idea of the same story. I have an idea of a story, I have have an idea of how I want to tell it. And it might take five or six attempts before I finally get the one. And this music could change, the melodies could change, it could be a completely different style. But the story finds a home.
- [32:57]
Lynne Hoffman
Wow. That right there, you hit the nail right on the head. The story is really. If you don't start with a good story, then what do you have?
- [33:06]
AJ Croce
Right? Yeah, just like a movie or, you know, it's the subject of a painting or sculpture. If, if, if the, if the subject is, is uninteresting, then it's unlikely to move anyone.
- [33:20]
Lynne Hoffman
So how do you, how do you hope music impacts listeners who may be struggling or facing their own struggles at this time?
- [33:29]
AJ Croce
I, I always joke that I want to bring crying back.
- [33:33]
Lynne Hoffman
It's so good though. Sometimes you need to, you know, you.
- [33:36]
AJ Croce
Do and, but there's, I'm joking when I say that.
- [33:41]
Lynne Hoffman
Wait, that actually works though. I'm bringing sexy back. You can put cry and it's got the same syllables.
- [33:48]
AJ Croce
I think if it. Yeah abbreviated. But I think it, but I think it's honestly, it's one of those things where when you, you are sincere in what you're doing and all of the work that you've put into being, the artist that you are, is present and you are playing to the best of your ability and performing to the best of your ability. I think it moves people and, and it doesn't need to be. Always, doesn't need to be necessarily particularly great. It needs to be pure, it needs to be sincere, needs to be organic. I had a conversation, I had dinner many years ago. I was on the same label as a, as a well known musician named Toot Steelman. He was a harmonica player, great jazz harmonica player, great guitar player. And his harmonica playing was really iconic. We were sitting and having dinner and he said, you know, when someone plays to the best of their ability, everyone has a different level of ability. You know, you have someone like John Coltrane or Charlie Parker who have this natural ability, you know, that is so amazing. Stevie Wonder. But if they aren't pushing themselves to play at their, at the highest level that they're capable of it doesn't connect. Whereas someone that doesn't have half that ability plays with all of their heart and gives it everything they've got, that's going to be the thing that you connect with. And even if it's terrible, you're going to be. You're not going to be able to look away because they're putting everything in the hat into it. Which is, I think, the whole purpose of TikTok.
- [35:50]
Lynne Hoffman
Oh my gosh, you aren't kidding.
- [35:53]
AJ Croce
It's like, you know, being able to see people do the best they can at a, you know, improbable level.
- [36:05]
Lynne Hoffman
It's authentic.
- [36:07]
AJ Croce
Authentic. Yeah, it's definitely, it's, you know, when you see someone learn something for the first time, first time, and they're so excited about it, or when you write a song, and I know a lot of people feel this way, you write a song, you don't quite know all of it, but you're just so excited about it. Sometimes that first recording of it is. Is the best, you know, and sometimes that first understanding of what it is as a demo really captures what the song is. That's why I don't like recording demos. I. I want to just go in if I think the song is good or perform it live and see if the audience thinks it's any good. And if they connect with it, then I'll know, okay, this is one that could be on the record. Does it fit the other songs? Is the other question just enough? But yeah, I mean, I think it's a living, breathing art and being able to practice it every day and be able to perform it in front of people as a gift.
- [37:09]
Lynne Hoffman
It sure is. And it's also great advice, what you just said, for anyone looking to do what you're doing for a career and. Or who may be going through a tough time, which it seems that there seems to be a lot of that going on these days. People start searching for things.
- [37:28]
AJ Croce
Don't know if you know, sad songs can sometimes resonate when you're, when you're, when you're down, when you're, when you're sad yourself and you listen to a sad song. I find oftentimes that's the most powerful because you can connect to it in a way that if you just put on some up tempo piece of ear candy, it's not going to necessarily pull you out, you know?
- [37:59]
Lynne Hoffman
Yeah.
- [38:00]
AJ Croce
Whereas hearing something that's a little bit darker, you have you. All of a sudden you're inspired by this beauty, you know.
- [38:08]
Lynne Hoffman
Oh, yeah. I mean, I can think about being dumped by a guy in high school and turning on a station back home called Magic and listening to, you know, a ballad from Chicago and then crying my eyes out and then feeling so much better after.
- [38:25]
AJ Croce
Exactly. It's cathartic.
- [38:26]
Lynne Hoffman
Yes. It really does help. So bring crying back. I love that. Can I ask you, before I let you go, a couple of quick hits with you. What is one song that you wish you had written?
- [38:41]
AJ Croce
Well, you know, why, why would I wish I had written it? You know, like, you know, We Will Rock youk is played at every, every stadium and every. Everywhere in the world. I don't know that there's a song that I wish I would have written. There's so many out there and there's so many that have yet to be written that there's not, like a reason to want to capitalize on someone else's art.
- [39:08]
Lynne Hoffman
I love your answer. All right, now, if you could collaborate with an artist living or from the past, who would it be?
- [39:16]
AJ Croce
McCartney, probably. I just think he has, you know, he has the ability to, to be a chameleon. You know, stylistically, he draws from so many different places from, from old jazz and, and blues to rock and roll and everything. I just, you know, he's a complete artist and, and I think that's, that's inspiring. But I could, I could name, you know, 200 artists that I would love to, to play with and collaborate with, you know, A.J.
- [39:49]
Lynne Hoffman
Croce, it's been such a pleasure having you. I know that you're pressed for time otherwise, because I have a million other questions for you, but maybe you'll come back and visit us again.
- [39:59]
AJ Croce
You just let me know.
- [39:59]
Lynne Hoffman
Lynn, thank you so much for coming on Music Save Me and sharing your story. And it's been so. I love learning things from people and I definitely learned things from you today. So thank you for that.
- [40:12]
AJ Croce
Likewise. Thank you so much.
- [40:14]
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Ah, but do you know what our.
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Lynne Hoffman
Most important ingredient is? Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
- [41:04]
AJ Croce
Almond Joy's got nuts and something even.
- [41:07]
Lynne Hoffman
Way better than that.
- [41:08]
AJ Croce
Yes, Almond Joy is made with almonds.
- [41:10]
And y with depression. It feels like every day you're just going through the motions. I wanted something that could help me feel better fast and that also lasts. That's when my doctor told me about Ody. In a study, O started working for some as early as 11 week with significant improvements seen on average at 6 weeks compared to placebo. Ovelity is helping me to feel more like myself. I'm glad I talked to my doctor about Ovelity. Ovelity is a prescription medicine for adults with major depressive disorder. Ovelity is not approved for children under 18. Ovelity may increase suicidal thoughts and actions in young adults. Tell your doctor about sudden changes to mood, thoughts or behavior. Do not take Ovelity if you have a history of seizure eating disorder or have abruptly stopped drinking alcohol or taking benzodiazepines, barbiturates or anti seizure medicine. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Do not take if you are allergic to dextromethorphan, bupropion or any of the ingredients in Ovelity. Do not take with maois. High blood pressure, manic episodes, serious eye problems and dizziness can occur. Report all medicines you take. Take to avoid a life threatening condition. Do not take Ovelity if you are or may become pregnant. Side effects can include dizziness, headache, diarrhea, feeling sleepy, dry mouth, sexual function problems and excessive sweating. Ask your healthcare provider if Ovelity is right for you. Visit ovelity.com that's a U V E L I T Y.com or call 866-496-2976 for more information. Hey, it's me, your heart. Mind if I pick the next song?
- [42:49]
Lynne Hoffman
Listen.
- [42:49]
AJ Croce
Even though we're eating better, people who've had one heart attack are at higher risk of another. But Repatha Evolocumab plus a statin lowers.
- [42:57]
Lynne Hoffman
LDL C, our bad cholesterol and our heart attack risk. So let's talk to our doctor about Repatha.
- [43:03]
AJ Croce
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- [43:30]
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This is an iHeart podcast.