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Music Saved Me Podcast: DMC and Dee Snider Explore the Healing Power of Music -Harry Chapin's "Cat's and The Cradle Legacy-New Documentary
01:11:22
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- [00:01]
A
Music Saved Me. Welcome to a very special edition of the Music Saved Me podcast where we dig into the songs and artists that didn't just play in the background, they pulled us out of the dark. I'm Lynne Hoffman, and speaking of special podcasts, you know, from time to time, we like to turn you on to new podcasts that we think you might like. BuzzKnight Media just launched a brand new one called Taking a Walk Nashville, which is a spin off of his popular original Taking a Walk podcast that buzz hosts where Nashville based country artist and storyteller Sarah Harrelson inter some of the biggest names and up and coming artists in Nashville. So you can hear that wherever you get your podcasts. And we're so excited to welcome her to the family and the Cats in the Cradle and the silver spoon. All right. I am so stoked right now. Can you tell? On this very special episode of Music Save Me, we are celebrating 50 years since folk artist and humanitarian Harry Chapin dropped a quiet bomb in a song called Cats in the Cradle. Just like me. And this song wasn't a party anthem, it was a mirror. And for the millions to this day, including the two legends joining me right now, it was a lifeline fresh off starring in a sweet new documentary called Cats in the Cradle, the song that changed our lives, streaming right now on Amazon Prime. I'm so excited to welcome my two special guests today who I hounded incessantly on text to join me to talk about this. Dee Snyder, the unfiltered voice behind the glam rock band Twisted sister, and Darrell DMC McDaniels, hip hop pioneer and Run DMC co founder. Gentlemen, welcome to Music Saving. And thank you so much for coming on today.
- [01:43]
B
Thanks for having us. This is so good.
- [01:44]
C
Yeah. Great to be here. You got two Ds, double Ds right here.
- [01:47]
B
Double Ds.
- [01:48]
A
It's the double D. Now, the funny thing is, is that when I watched this documentary, I saw and heard for the first time that D didn't really like folk music at all. In fact, I think you used the word I hated folk music and dmc.
- [02:06]
C
Yeah. I hate acoustic guitar and I hate folk music. Yes, I do. Yeah.
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A
So you two are the last people that I would have expected to pop.
- [02:15]
B
Up because I loved it. He hates it.
- [02:18]
C
You like that shit?
- [02:19]
B
Yeah. I mean, you understand when I was first hearing folk music, it was on the radio, you know, but the reason why I liked it because it was storytelling. So it wasn't like it was a genre to me because I was A little kid. All I did was read comic books, the folk music. The reason why I liked it, it was the stories. It was relatable. It was kind of like, you know, bedtime stories, Lalapais, all this stuff that I was learning in elementary school. So there was kind of a connection there. It was, you know, the Jim Croce bag. Bad Leroy Brown. Baddest man in the whole damn town. Better than all.
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C
Yeah, I'm not judging. You know, people get very upset when I say things like, I hate golf.
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B
Right?
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C
And I say, I hate golf. I hate golf. And people like, right, dude, is that affecting golf? I hate Grateful Dead. They had a wonderful career. They don't need me. What do I have to like? Everything you like. So I don't. You like Grateful Dead. Great. You like golf, Ralph, you like folk music. That's fabulous. I like aggressive music, you know, and that's why I like hip hop, too, because it's got an edge. It's in your face. It demands your attention in a different way.
- [03:42]
A
By the way, this is why I brought you two together, because we got to take a quick break. You two have to sort this out, and then we're going to come right back and get into it with Dee Snider and. And Daryl McDaniel's next on Music. Save me. Don't go anywhere.
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D
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E
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D
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D
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A
Making the holidays magical for everyone on your list it's no small feat, but with TJ Maxx, your magic multiplies with quality finds arriving daily through Christmas Eve, you'll save on luxe cashmere, the latest tech toys and more. So you can check off every name on your list and treat yourself to a holiday look that'll turn heads. Now you know where to go to make all that holiday magic. It's TJ Maxx, of course. It's shaping up to be a very magical holiday. Music saved me D&DMC. It was little over, I want to say 20 years ago. Maybe 20 since you the three of us first met on the set of VH1 Classics. Very special Thanksgiving taping along with Debbie Gibson and Gloria Gaynor. We had turkey, all the trimmings. We talked about music and things we were grateful for. And it's all come full circle because we're back together again, the three of us, right around the same time of year, Thanksgiving, and we're talking about music and things we're grateful for on a very special Music Save Me podcast.
- [07:37]
C
I was grateful to have you Guys on that horrible show with me because that very special Thanksgiving, remember they had like some wine connoisseur who was explaining every was pairing wines.
- [07:49]
B
Oh, yeah.
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C
And you'll be saying it's okay to.
- [07:52]
B
Rock a wine and rock a wine.
- [07:55]
C
And you know, but it was. It was awful experience except meeting you, Daryl, and you, Lynne, and Debbie and I become friends as well. So.
- [08:02]
B
That's so cool.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Yeah. That's so awesome. You know, and I really. You two really been the too that I've kept. We've kept in touch over the years. Of course, you know, you. You are the most real genuine people.
- [08:16]
B
That was just the thing to get us together. You know what I'm saying?
- [08:20]
A
We had more work to do.
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B
We had more things to do.
- [08:23]
A
Well, we're going to talk today about a song that is super powerful. And you both have been on Music Save Me before as guests. So you know the stories about people being saved by music and artists also. And basically this song, I think, has to be maybe the most powerful song of all, especially if it moved the two of you. And the story and message, not just to men, both young and old, pretty much everyone in between is basically life changing. So as soon as I saw the two of you on screen in the documentary that I was watching, I knew I had to reach out and have you come on and discuss this song further with me and what it means to you. And also I wanted to say that talking about emotions and emotional stuff, deep things, not typically something that men, especially not too heavy hitters like yourself, rock and roll, heavy metal, hip hop, as a rule, it sort of leads itself to more of like a badass silent toughness. So allowing us all to access your vulnerable side and being so public about it, it's not only generous, but it's extremely powerful. And I know you two, you two always want to use your power for good. Yes. Even though it doesn't match, I've definitely play on stage.
- [09:34]
C
Daryl, I don't know about you, man. I definitely feel I've gotten more vulnerable and touched with my emotional side in my older age. And it's not about age. I think it's about wisdom and experience. You know, I used a kid that I had my tear ducts removed in the 80s, but somehow they reattached because, you know, if I'm watching movies now, I'm like, you're crying?
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B
I was just crying to Cabrini, the movie about Mother Cabrini.
- [10:05]
C
Yeah, I know. So I was just like sitting there.
- [10:08]
B
Crying because she went through a whole lotta oh my goodness.
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C
Yeah, so definitely got emotional as I've gotten old more. Gotten older for sure.
- [10:16]
A
Wow. You think maybe that was kids having kids, you know?
- [10:19]
B
Yeah, I think it's. Cause like you said, it's experience. Like it was always there for us, but we never had a situation or outlet to present it because we was too busy doing these other things, you know, I think if they would approach us back then, we would have spoke back then and it would have been a game changer back then. But it wasn't in time for. Like Dee said, it's not about age. It was just about. I mean, an experience, you know.
- [10:49]
C
But you know, Cats in the Cradle is a really good example, you know, throughout a song that with time becomes mean more and more to you. When I was a kid and I would tune in and hear that song and Harry's from Long island, where two of us are from. So the poor guy who was killed on the. On 494.
- [11:09]
B
On the lie.
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C
On the lie. Driving 480 got hit by truck. Such a dangerous road. But, but hearing the song, it meant something to me about me and my dad. And then as time went on, it started to mean something to me about me and my son, you know, and.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah, let me, let me get into that with you in the doc. You said hearing this song d. My dad being a new dad for the first time you had a kid gave you a full on panic attack. Can you please explain and walk us through that moment? What specifically was it about the song that hit you and gave you a panic attack?
- [11:46]
C
I was. Darryl's gonna get this. I was gone the first nine months of my son's life. Yeah, nine months of the first 12. He was on this earth. I was non existent. He watched me on MTV and Suzette would go, there's daddy, there's daddy, you know. And when I came home, he just looked at me like I was an alien.
- [12:09]
B
Who are you?
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C
Oh yeah, like who's this guy? Or he, you know, because I'm much bigger than I was on tv. But so, you know, so really you just realized. Damn it, I, I just did exactly what Harry was warning me about. Exactly. But you know, this is a life we chose, you know, and, and, and that's what the kids. But the kids don't understand that you're just, you're doing the job, trying to take care of them and you know, have you had one of your. Darrell, when did you have your first kid? How were you?
- [12:38]
B
My son was in 94.
- [12:40]
C
94 I was never home. My son was 82.
- [12:44]
B
Yeah. So my first But. Well, my first and only son was 94. And we was always going, here's a cute story. So like I said, I was always on the road, right? But there would be some weeks when my wife would drive with him to drop me at the airport and take him to school. So my wife goes to pick him up for preschool. This is when he's like four years old, right? So the teacher says to my wife when she's picking him up, oh, Ms. McDaniels, I didn't know your husband was a pilot. And my wife goes, what do you mean, a pilot? Oh, well, Deason, we had career day. And what your friend was doing. Deason said that his father was a pilot. And they just cried out laughing because kids are so smart. All my son knew was, my mother always drops me where the planes is at, so father must be a pilot.
- [13:35]
A
Wow. Wow.
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B
You know what I'm saying? And then I had to tell him, no. I perform and I do shows, so I take the plane to where I go. And we used to always walk through the mall when he was 4 and 5 years old. And he used to. His whole day was, daddy, you know a lot of people, Daddy. You know those, Daddy. But now he. As he got older, he put, oh, they know you because of the music and videos. So, you know, saying he was. He was knowing me through other outlets.
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C
Daddy, do they fly on your plane with you?
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B
Yeah. It was just so cute. But the teachers, all adults, started laughing because my son was so funny. He just put two and two together. But that must be a probably cutest thing ever.
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A
Well, you did dmc. You said that this song, Cats in the Cradle, was like a therapy session on wax. Can we just unpack that for a second?
- [14:27]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
You said that it hit you hard when you first heard this song, right? And what was it like the first time you heard it?
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B
It was probably when it first came out on 77 WABC. And it was just shocking. Cause I had the best parents in the world. And I couldn't believe that this man didn't care like my parents. Like all my Run DMC records I rhymed about son of Byford brother of Al Bannon's My mother runs my pal it's McDaniel's, not McDonald's these rhymes are Darrell's those burgers are Ronalds I ran down my family tree. My mother, my father, my brother and me. Like I was so busy rhyming about Christmas time in Hollis, Queens it was always my family. So when I first heard the record, I couldn't believe that people actually could let that happen. And I was thinking about this poor little kid and then it hurt. But Harry, this song is such a part of my life because I heard it growing up and it was just shocking because I had the best parents ever. That's why I rhymed about them. But in 1981, the greatest hip hop group ever, the CO Crush 4, emcees the CO Crush Brothers out of the Bronx at the infamous. One of their most famous battles in hip hop history at this club called Harlem, where The Cold Crush 4 was Battle in the Fantastic Five. And they did a rhyme routine using the melody of Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle. And instead of going, cats in a cradle in a silver spoon, they said, the initials of my name are gmc. You can search all your life but you'll never see a higher powered body rocket in the galaxy. I'm the first and ever last. I'm the grandmaster cast. Well, hell. So I did these initials rock. So when I got into hip hop, I remembered, oh, that's this song that I used to hear on the radio. And they did the initials. So I changed my name to DMC because of what the cold Chris Ford did with the Harry Chapin record that I heard growing up all the time. So then you fast forward to when I'm 35 years old, I find out that I'm adopted, which wrecked my whole world. And after rehab and therapy, it gave me a purpose. But then when I was thinking of killing myself and suicidal, I said, before I go, I want to do one last thing for the world. So I wanted to do a remake of Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle, but I wanted to flip it and put the story of my parents in it. So I did a remake of Harry Chaplin's Cats in a Cradle, but about the parents that gave the kid all a good time. And then I did it with Sarah McLachlan. Shout out to Sarah McLachlan singing the Harry Chapin parts. And then I go to Vancouver to record with Sarah. And she didn't tell me this till after we recorded that. Oh, Dee, there's something I need to tell you. And I go, what? She says, I was adopted too, and I didn't know that. So just her whole family, you know, the record being about whatever. But here's the kicker though. In order for me to do the remake, it's a song called Just Like Me. I did it with Sarah and I had to go to Long Island D to speak to Sandy, Harry's wife, to get permission to do it. And she explained to me she wrote the words though.
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C
She wrote the lyrics?
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B
Yes, she revealed that to me. So since I was a kid, when I first got into hip hop, Harry's song was there. And then when I started going to my own personal family identity things, that song has been a literal theme song of my life. Movie.
- [18:17]
A
Wow, that's just. It's amazing to me. Amazing to me how it all connects even through the decades. Dee, you had mentioned up front too something about this song made you think about your own relationship with your dad, who I know is a police officer. And you kind of had a little bit of a, a tug and pull. And I've read your autobiography, so I know there were some of those things in there. How did that song as well as Harry's personal story and journey with his families become your sort of do not repeat blueprint?
- [18:47]
C
Well, I don't know what I said on that documentary. I think I love it. When I first got there, I said, I do not know why you're interviewing me. I don't know what I have to say about this. It turned out I had a lot to say about it when I started thinking about it. But honestly, my dad, my dad was a cop and he was, you know, when he was a hard ass Korean War vet. He's still with us, 95 years old. I, when I used to hear about this father who was never with the kid, I say, man, I wish my dad was around less because I said, well, it was just, just, just. I just couldn't stand to be around him. So I didn't have that problem. My father, he was present too damn much. I came to realize as the years went by and I became a father and see what it takes to be come home to work those two, three jobs like he did. We had six kids in our family and you know, and show up and be there even though he was yelling at you and punishing you seemed like all the time, you know, but, but he, but he was present in my life. Making sure that he was present in my life or I only recently found out and this is Post doing that documentary is I really after some therapy. Here we go, darling. We all have that common people highly recommend it. I realized it was his intense love for me and intense. And the fact that he was my hero. This cop, this sergeant in Korean War, he was my hero. And the fact that my hero was punishing me and disciplining me. It really hurt me. And it turned that insane love I had for him because I couldn't understand why this, my hero, was being so, so mean to me. And I realized that I did the same thing to my own eldest son. He saw me on mtv. When I'm Darryl, I'm saying it to you, Lynn. You and me, we. We've done radio together, we've hung together. I'm not cutting you out here, but this is a new conversation. I. Matter of fact, Lynn, I don't know what. You're over here on my screen, by the way. I don't know what we. What we've talked about, we've talked about so together. But. But I realized that my son, when I came home from the road, he asked me for an autographed picture of me.
- [21:05]
B
Wow.
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C
And I said, yeah, sure. And I signed, I love you, Jesse. Dad looked at it, and I could see he was disappointed that it didn't say D. Snider on it. You get me? Oh, wow. You get me. He knew D. Snider. He didn't want Dad's autograph. He wanted. And that's how those first years, I was not present except as this thing on a poster thing on tv, you know? And so I made me realize here my dad was actually there, you know, my hero was actually there. So, you know, this isn't about cats and cradle, but this is just right realizing as life goes on, you know, you think you know it all. Yeah.
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B
What's crazy about Harry's song? The very thing the father was doing to the son. The son had no time for him at the end.
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C
Right? Exactly.
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B
That's what was the crazy. That's why that song was so shocking. It was like a movie.
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C
How many. How many kids you got, Daryl?
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B
I just got one.
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C
Got one. I got four. And that's the only thing I want from him, is time. You know what I mean? Like, I'll say, yes, you've got to get me a gift.
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B
I always say that.
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C
Hang out, hang out, you know? And I get. They got their lives, man. But.
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B
Right.
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C
We don't see them enough. Right, Right.
- [22:24]
B
Yeah. And they gotta get you. And they gotta get us the gift because that feels. That's them giving us their time, you know, it's so crazy. But that whole song, you know, Sandy, she was telling me about Harry, was marvelous because he would do one show, paid, and then the next show would go to charity. He was always doing shows. She said so. He would always make Sandy give these big events for charities and the Mayor and the government. So the song came out from a family at one of these meetings to where she said she was meeting with, like, the guy running for assembly or something, you know, in Long Island. And the husband and the wife would have interpretators, but not because of angel's language. The husband would say to his assistant, you tell them. And this is to the family. And they all in the same room that I said this. And then the wife would tell Harper, well, you tell. And it was crazy. And the kids was caught in the middle. She said it was the craziest thing. So when she first started writing the first bunch of lyrics, Harry comes off the road. It's early in the morning. He finds what she wrote, and he wakes her up. And her frenzy say, are you doing this about me? Because he was always gone. And she was like, no, no, honey, this is about the people you just had me meet. So it even affected Harry when he first saw the lyrics that he was rap because he knew he was always on the road. So it's.
- [24:03]
A
And that happened to him too, because, remember when he performed the first time and his dad was in the audience and he had to leap over the chair to tell him, dad, this isn't about you.
- [24:11]
B
So look how it's. Anybody who ever heard that, like, there was something that you was connected to with this song or.
- [24:21]
A
Or it could have been the kid in the doc. I don't know if you saw this. This young child actor, he was on the Mike Douglas Show.
- [24:28]
B
Oh, Mike Douglas show is great. I love that show.
- [24:30]
A
And he said, this was in the documentary, though, that you two were on. And he said, I just don't wanna talk. I don't wanna talk about Cats in the Cradle. I don't wanna talk. This is a kid on the show. And he saw the cards on the show before when they went to break. And when he saw Cats in the Cradle was gonna come up on the show, he started profusely crying, unconsolable. And Mike Douglas was like, well, what is it about this song? And he said, it's nothing bad that happened to me. I had the greatest life. I had the greatest family, the greatest parents. But it's just something about that song makes me cry. And I have to say, I never had any issues, except when I heard that song, I got so emotional. Cause you can connect it to any. It could be for a parent just wanting to, you know, have I gotten to the point where I want to retire? I only have. How many years do I have left? How can I enjoy this with my grandkids and my kids, life goes so fast. We're here for such a short amount of time.
- [25:26]
B
And even with the song, for me, though, when I first heard it, though, I thought the beat was dope. The drum, like, you know, to most of us hip hoppers, even though it was folk music, you know, we sampled. I mean, we stole. I mean, we sampled a lot of certain music, but the rhythm of it was kind of really cool. You know what I'm saying?
- [25:46]
A
D, You're Dee's biting his finger over.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, well. But it was like, even if you have no family issues, the vibration of that song brings about emotions. And that's what music does. That's what music does.
- [26:03]
A
D. Twisted Sister was all about rebellion and giving the middle finger to authority.
- [26:08]
C
Yes.
- [26:09]
A
But this song, forced introspection, which is really just for the average person looking inward. Am I the problem? Is there something I'm not doing? That's not an easy thing to do, especially when you're young. Was there ever a moment while you were on tour where you. I can say this to both of you. When you both had to choose between the rock star life and being present for your family. Was there ever any time like that?
- [26:33]
C
You know, I. I was. Had Jesse. We had Jesse in 82 and the band broke 83. I was over living in England. We got a deal over in England recording and touring. In 84, Stay Hungry came out and the world opened up for us. And that was. I was gone. I was gone. And my wife, you know, you say, oh, why don't you bring him on the road? Then we get to another subject of me being a miserable bastard on the road. I was just mad at the world, not at my wife and my kid, but, you know, I was just. Just perpetually angry at everything. I just sat in my room and. And just fumed. And then went out and screamed at people, stay. You know, I was always in a rage. And Suzette would just say, you know what? You're terrible hanging around, you know, you know, I'll wait till you come home. And I get it, you know, because I was so preoccupied with trying to just make the success last and keep going. But it was, you know, it was certainly. I'd made adjustments. I remember. Here's a big one, okay? I was very meant to have all aware I have a son. So I was on tour the height of things going crazy, and my son got sick and nothing crazy. And then he got bronchitis. And then my wife calls him. They're putting him in the hospital. And I remember hearing that Robert Plant's son. The same thing happened to Robert Plant's son. Robert Plant was on tour and his son got a cold. Son got really ill. Son went to the hospital. His son died while he was on tour. And I just said, that is not going to be me. And I just. As I pulled. The guys were out in California. I said, I have got to go home. I cannot. In three days he's gone from, oh, he's got a cold too. He's in the hospital, you know, and with an iv and I flew home, got there in time. And as. As Daryl knows, kids, they recuperate like that and. But maybe it was part of dad walking in, you know, and to the hospital and you know, and just maybe that would help. Whatever it was. I just didn't want my song to wind up. And I love Robert Rob playing and, you know, I'm not no casting as Persians, you know, he figured he's going to be okay. He just. See, the kid's got a cold, he's fine. I did not want to take any chance that I would be a lasting memory, that my son died while I was out there on tour. So I got home as fast as good and stayed till he got better.
- [29:12]
B
That was a step up moment.
- [29:14]
C
Yeah, for sure.
- [29:15]
A
Dmc, similar. Similar question. But Swagger Revolution, that was run dmc. But this song just cracked you open, so.
- [29:26]
B
Cause the song had an impact. Cause at the time, at the time, the song resurfaced three times. When I was little, when hip hop first began, it was a present. Now I'm going to my. You know, I'm an alcoholic, suicidal, metaphysical, spiritual wreck who just found out he was adopted at age 35. Jam Master J gets shot and killed. And then my father dies of cancer. So you can imagine where I was at. And then I'm drinking Jack Daniel, who's Jim Beam and Johnny Walker. Jack, Johnny and Jim become my best friends. And prior to me starting to drink again, prior to me finding out that I was adopted, I had acute pancreatitis. So then when I found out that I was adopted, I'm drinking myself to death. And I always remember my. My wife telling me, motherfucker, you got a son now. And I still didn't stop hanging with Jack, Jim and Johnny, even though I had a son. And then it got to the point where my wife said, you are suicidal. You are killing yourself. You don't gotta shoot yourself. You don't gotta put your foot on the third rail. You don't gotta drink the poison. You're fucking drinking. You have pancreatitis. So subconsciously I was committing suicide. And then my wife was like, what are you gonna. What are we gonna do if you leave us? And I was like, oh. So that revelation and the songs playing. I'm trying to find Sarah McLaughlin, but it was that revelation saying, oh, oh, shit. I don't wanna end up letting him grow up without his dad. So, Harry, it was always a relevant theme song in my life. Movie. That was the moment that I said, you know what? I gotta go to rehab. Because I was a functional drunk. Like, I was never late. I was just drunk all the time. And I'm drinking, but I'm not supposed to be drinking. I'm drinking thinking I'm celebrating the newfound found part of my identity. I'm GMC from Run dmc. Yes, Byford and Banner is my mother father. Alpha is my brother. But now that I'm finding out adopted, that's a missing piece to my identity that I didn't know. I'm celebrating. And my wife was like, motherfucker again, motherfucker. She had a lot of motherfuckers. Motherfucker. You're just drinking because you can't handle the fact that your parents didn't tell you was adopted all this time. So the records playing, I go into rehab. I get out, you know, miraculously, my pancreas heals. No liver problems. And then I go, I gotta do something the same way. I gotta do something with music the same way Sarah McLachlan made the angel Song.
- [32:07]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:09]
B
And save my life. I'm gonna use the Harry Chapin song that like. What I'm trying to say is I heard the record as a kid, and this is the universe saying, this is gonna for. This is for a reason. I'm a fully grown man at age 35.
- [32:25]
C
As I'm saying, with the years it just takes on, it's like that old Bill Cosby family special. I'm not gonna. I ain't talking bad about Bill because funny is funny. And he used to have that thing about kids and stuff. And you could just keep watching it and identify it as years going by. That song changed the meaning changed as the years go by. And, you know, and it affected your life. Amazing.
- [32:47]
A
The song definitely wasn't nostalgia. It was like a literal warning on, like, myriad levels and a message that basically you can change the course of your life for the better and to be more positive and. And help all those lives by being more present with the people that matter most. Yeah.
- [33:07]
B
And little things. Yes. Yeah. And it's the little things. It's not money because, you know, the record says there's planes to catch and bills to pay. That's a big statement because of course, that's necessity. We gotta eat and it's the neck. But at the end of the day, that none of that means nothing if you don't have that simple little connect. You know what I'm saying? Playing catch in the pool. Like the song is an eye opener. And it's also a great anthem for foster kids and orphans and adopted kids. Some kids might not be in a situation to have a father at all. So your little mentorship or your little. I'm going to take you to the movies, little kid. I'm going to take you to the museum. Anything that you can do for a kid that is not even yours that doesn't have a father, it can make you say, oh, shoot, I'm gonna go adopt all the orphans.
- [33:59]
A
No, but clearly you're right. And the ripple effect from the song is still so strong and remains even 50 years later. I can't even believe that we're still talking about it. I wonder if Harry would even be shocked that it but learned.
- [34:13]
B
No, I think he knew what he was doing too.
- [34:15]
A
He did. But I gotta say, the one thing I did not know is I didn't know that his wife wrote it.
- [34:21]
C
Yes.
- [34:21]
A
And it sort of makes sense for. Because like I said sort of in the beginning, guys aren't always readily available to get deep into conversation about personal things and emotions, you know, and emotional things. So, like, it makes sense to me now why it touched so many people because a woman wrote it. Sorry, I don't mean to take credit, but. But it really. We could talk and talk, right?
- [34:44]
C
Because, I mean, she's observing it, but she has another thing is she's on the outside observing that couple who's using and, you know, interpreter to speak to each other. She was the observer. So it gave her a much better view of the situation. Right about it. When you're in the middle of it, very tough to see it as it's happening. It's only within the passage of time that I've stepped back and look and go, oh, shit, you know, I did exactly what I was supposed to do.
- [35:15]
B
Exactly. Because then you become an observer. You get to. And for us D. It's really crazy when you. Somebody lets you do all that you do and then you. At a point where your awareness is a little more. And then they reveal to you all the stuff that you did, and you go, yep, I remember I did that.
- [35:35]
C
Oh, you met my wife.
- [35:38]
A
Suzette is awesome. She's so amazing.
- [35:41]
C
A truthsayer and a dropper of the F bombs, for sure.
- [35:44]
A
Oh, I think I would. Well, I already know Suzette, but I don't know your wife personally. D. Daryl. But I have to say that we're probably all three very similar. Cause I have an artist for Willie, you guys know, is an artist, but in a different way. He, you know, produces things that people see visually in here and stuff. But similarly, he is. What's that word? Prolific. It's the amount of work that comes out of this one person is like a lot. And it means that he has to lock in himself away a lot and miss out on a lot. So I can completely relate. And the F bomb.
- [36:24]
B
Yes, yes, exactly.
- [36:25]
A
It comes out frequently. I'm a truck driver. Dee, these are some rapid fire questions. What's one line from the song that you would tattoo on every new parent?
- [36:38]
C
Which D are you talking to? I was not sure if you're talking to darling.
- [36:41]
A
Oh, I'm sorry.
- [36:43]
C
D. Snider.
- [36:45]
A
Yes, I was.
- [36:46]
E
I was.
- [36:47]
A
Darryl. I almost forgot your name because I call you.
- [36:50]
B
Right, Exactly.
- [36:52]
C
Yeah, yeah. You know what? I'd have to look at the lyrics to refresh them in my mind. I mean, all of it. All of it should be. I mean, it's just. It's. It's insanely powerful, beginning to end. Look, I hate acoustic guitars. I hate folk music. Yet I've listened to that whole song many, many times. Because as the story's unfolding, even after, you know, it's. And that's part of the deal, is that what the father did to the son, the son is now doing to the father. And what the son wanted from his father, his time, now the father wants from his son. And neither has the time for either. It's bad. It is truly an amazing storytelling. Lyrically amazing, top to bottom.
- [37:42]
B
So I would sum it up with it to add. He said it right there, that last line. The whole song can be stated in what Deej has said. When he says, my boy is just like me. I said, my boy, son is just like me. And then he goes on in that cat said, and what's so powerful about that? He realizes that. And then he just says, goes back into the chorus, like, that's what his life is now, summed up in all the planes. And all of that. And all of that, he thought it mattered then. And now comes that to him saying, yo, my wife is sick, my daughter's sick, dad, I gotta go to work, then I got a meeting, I'll call you on Thanksgiving. And it's like he realizes that, damn, if only I would have did this different. And the other thing is, he says my boy is just like me. Not only does his boy doesn't have time for him, his boy is busy with life. So, you know, my whole thing is I just don't want my son to be as crazy as I was in the 80s. I don't want him to be like me, I don't want him to be like me, but I want him to be exactly like, better for me. You know, all the cocaine and all that other stuff, I don't want that. But if you're not present in their life, that's what will lead to, you know, like when you look at all of these rock stars and metal all, you know, anybody that had a life outside Marines and stuff, when they come home, when they run their kids, they the most soft spoken, happy people. Taking the kids to kindergarten now and going to the recitals. You know, when you see the big Navy SEAL at the dick, he's doing that for a reason. Because he don't want to end up like the father in a Harry song. So I think now after Harry put that song out, all the generations afterward, you started to see a change in men. Even if you didn't see them soften up, you see them be more present in their households.
- [39:51]
C
That is interesting. That is interesting, Lyn, because good observation there. Because they're accusing that men have gotten weaker and softer and become more involved in their kids lives. And it's certainly post catching the cradle. You can't argue that, you know.
- [40:07]
B
Sure. We'll be right back with more of the music save me podcast.
- [40:14]
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- [43:43]
B
Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast.
- [43:47]
A
Conversing with you D through. There was one time we had a conversation about how you felt like you ruined your children because of your fame and how they all wanted to follow in your footsteps. And I felt like that was way. Like, I never heard anyone say that. And then I thought about it and I was like, well, that could happen.
- [44:04]
C
Yes, dude, it does talk about both you dudes. Dude, dude, dude. No, seriously, it is. Well, I mean, now you get into crazy stuff. I mean, you know, the shadow we cast. Daryl, you know, my kids, so they're super creatives. My wife's creative. I'm creative. We encourage her to explore. But I have been a presence much longer than I expected to be a present, whether, you know, a presence. And I am just this thing that won't get out of the way. And I'm very conscious of it now, trying to step aside, to let the sun on them, let the sun shine on them without being filtered through their. Who their father is, you know, I want nothing more than people to come up to me and say, are. Are you Cody Snyder's dad? Like that to me was like, that's the ultimate dream is when people ask me if I'm their father. Not, you know, not, are you the Snyder's son? You know, so right. There's. There's, you know, be careful what you wish for, because you might get it. And I. I wanted to be rich and famous. I wanted to be a rock star. I want to be a husband and a father. But the two don't work cultively together. They do not. And it's a real challenge.
- [45:24]
A
There's no manual on how to be a rock star. There's no manual on how to be a parent. There's no actual definitive book of how to do this. It's like, you know, you're on your own.
- [45:35]
B
Right?
- [45:35]
C
So you, you know, well, the one that does exist is written by people who died at 27, so. And that's. That's not the book. I don't want the dead rock star manual.
- [45:46]
A
Well, it's obvious the two of you are in touch with your sensitive side, your empathy. You have all of those things.
- [45:53]
C
Take that back, Lynn. You take that back.
- [45:55]
A
I'm taking it back.
- [45:56]
C
I'm not sensitive. I'm not crying. I'm not crying.
- [46:00]
A
That's why he always wears glasses now. I know.
- [46:02]
C
Exactly.
- [46:04]
A
But you're also very charitable. And I wonder if that's part of all of the stuff that we're talking about, is using the platform not only to bring home the bacon for the family. So you can survive, but also to give back. Because, you know, it's part of why you're on this show today. But what you two do, charitably, on many levels, I know throughout your whole career, it's been very important to you both to give back. And in this documentary, I didn't realize that Harry believed in using his power, so much so that he wanted to make a world a better place. So he gave away half of all of his money.
- [46:44]
B
Yeah.
- [46:46]
A
Half of all of his earnings to fight hunger, which is incredible to me.
- [46:49]
B
I had no idea how did he work with. Why hunger? Yet after me, insanity. I was like, okay, wow. I went out to the facility in Long island and everything.
- [46:59]
A
It's amazing.
- [47:00]
C
I did many motorcycle rides, charity rides, for LI Cares, Harry's organization. And I'm honored. I'm not bragging. It's just a tie into. I received the Harriet Chapin Ward Humanitarian Award for my charitable work. Was given to me by Sandy. And she said, you know why we picked you? And I said, well, yeah, yeah. I assume. Charity says you're the only rock star that actually not just doing charity work, organizes. I chair the charity. I did a ride for 18 years. She said, people donate a signed guitar, they'll do a thing. But you are one of the few who actually runs a charitable fund, you know, and does something like that. So, yeah, I got the Harry Chapin Award for my work. Very cool. Very proud of that.
- [47:55]
A
Yeah.
- [47:55]
C
Because Harry's Amazing LAK is a massive food bank. It feeds so many people. And he started that thing that was the Harry Chapin Foundation. Amazing charity he did.
- [48:07]
A
And he found, you know, the thing that really was astounding to me was that he figured out what caused hunger and what caused disease, and it was simple poverty. So the rest of his life.
- [48:21]
C
Wait a minute. But add to that, lyn, that like, 25%, 30%, some crazy number of people in suburban America need help putting food on the table.
- [48:31]
B
Yes.
- [48:32]
C
You're like, Like. Like, you think suburbia. Oh, you think that's. Oh, that's an inner city problem or a rural problem or other countries. No, down your own block. Harry recognized the problem, and that's why it was Long Island Cares, feeding people on Long island, where he grew up, where he was from knowing there were hungry kids go to bed without food, you know, and. And needed help. Amazing insight.
- [48:56]
B
Right.
- [48:56]
C
Because we look so far past. We look, oh, this is a problem. You know, over in Africa. Right over there.
- [49:01]
A
Yeah.
- [49:02]
C
Over, you know, the Ukraine. They're suffering. No, right here, people are Struggling too.
- [49:07]
A
You know, he wanted to feed the world.
- [49:09]
B
He was like. He wanted to fix everybody here so that we could go fix everybody there.
- [49:14]
A
That's how you do is oxygen mask on you first, then you can help everyone else.
- [49:22]
C
Exactly.
- [49:23]
B
Give them a plan to follow. That's how easy it is.
- [49:27]
A
Yes.
- [49:27]
B
That's what he was trying to tell us.
- [49:30]
A
Now, what. What is one? Cause both of you would bankrupt yourself for like that. What. What is one? Cause you two believe in so much that you would take half.
- [49:39]
B
Oh, for sick force the kids and orphans. Because, you know, first I found out that I was adopted and had the best parents ever, and I got to meet my birth mother. So, yeah, I got to. I did a search for my birth mother. I grew up in Queens. He was in Staten island all this time. Beautiful thing is that when I got. When I met my birth mother, first thing she says is, I know you're dying to know why I gave you up. And I was like, shit, lady, that's an understatement. And she said these words, I gave you up to give you a chance. And then I look back at my life like Eminem and Busta Rhyme said, d, don't you know, if your mother never gave you up for it, you would have never been run Hip hop would have happened. But it was destiny that you run in J with spur the moment and put hip hop in the right way with integrity and positivity. He said the world would be completely different. So when my birth mother said that, I was like, wow. I found my birth mother in Thanksgiving of 04, and in Thanksgiving of 05, I had Thanksgiving with my birth mother and my adopted mother in the same room. Wow, that's crazy.
- [50:48]
C
That's amazing. And that is the most unselfish thing mother could have done.
- [50:53]
B
Yeah.
- [50:54]
C
To give you up to have a better life.
- [50:58]
B
So, you know, for me, it's like, you know, it's like when Harry said, all these people need is opportunity and access, and you give them an opportunity. Especially, you know, the kids, you know, whether they're homeless or in poverty, you know, whatever they're going through, if you give these people an opportunity, they don't just do well, they excel. But so many people are stereotype. Oh, homeless. Homeless is your situation. Your situation doesn't define who you are. So we gotta. You got a meal, you got a nice place to stay. What is it that you want to do? I think Benjamin Franklin had said, most people just want opportunity for occupation. And what he meant by that was, you know, could be a job or could be just, I want to be a painter. I want to be a designer this and that. So many people are, you know, like, with most of the young people I deal with, they all want to be rappers because they see on Instagram all the fakeness of the rented cars and the rented jets.
- [52:00]
C
Oh, dude, dude, I watch those. I watch those MTV cribs and I go, they got nothing in the refrigerator.
- [52:08]
B
And if it's something, it's all one product that was placed in there.
- [52:14]
C
You saw my one on our MTV creams. You saw leftovers in there. I even got a case of Shock Full Nuts coffee because Shock Full Nuts saw I had a bag in the refrigerator. They sent me a case.
- [52:26]
B
Oh, my God.
- [52:27]
C
That's Shock Full of Nuts.
- [52:28]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [52:29]
C
All right. My charity. What I've noticed, Lynn, is that we tend to gravitate towards charities that we have somehow a connection with in our own lives. And it makes sense because it's something we can identify. Identify with. One of the first ones I got involved with, with the March of Dimes, I had two prematurely born children who grew up to be healthy and everything like that, but, you know, they're not every. But so it was. It helps children need babies. It helps babies. And I related to that because the time I sat in that NCU watching my. My son and my daughter and my daughter in incubators, my daughter nearly dying of pneumonia of a Christmas. She was born. She was born seven, eight weeks early. And my wife had already been in the hospital for four months because she was giving birth way too prematurely. But that's neither here nor there. So that was one of my first children. Babies, they're helpless, they're defenseless. I've worked with. I work with, you know, for children with cancer, you know, because they, you know, the children, they can't help themselves.
- [53:34]
B
Right.
- [53:34]
C
You know, children can't help themselves. They're dependent on us and they're. They're at our mercy whether, what with their lives and, you know, force the children as well, you know, so when it comes to kids, that's. That's my really, my soft sport.
- [53:48]
A
Yeah, you guys are just the best.
- [53:50]
B
You know, we know, we know, we have our own bloodline children, but we also know that kid over there could use some love. Yeah, just, you know, some assistance. Like even when I'm working with the foster kids and adopted kids, adopting is a huge thing. Even being a foster parent is a huge thing. But a miracle in a lot of these kids lives is this thing called mentorship. Okay. You know you're not adopting and you're not. But just giving a kid, yo, here's my phone number. Anytime you need to talk, call me. And the kid will go, yes. Time.
- [54:26]
C
Giving your time. Yes. If you're giving time back to Cats in the Cradle, it's all about giving some time to a kid.
- [54:34]
B
And the kid will go, really? And you go, yeah. And then they'll call just to see if it's serious. And then, you know, and all you got to do is say, yeah, I'm rooting for you, or I'm calling to see how you doing. And then you're here a month later. Oh, he's doing he or she's doing so well now with her studies, she's going on to college. It's the time Bruce Lee said, you're so. Bruce Lee said, time is the most important thing for people.
- [55:01]
A
Wow, you are so right. I have to tell you, while you were telling me that story, I just realized so many people gave me time. I asked a million questions growing up. I also think that's important to ask questions about it.
- [55:12]
C
She's really annoyed, Daryl. You gotta hang out with him. Yes, I've always had.
- [55:17]
A
But I remember my very first job at a radio station was WCDJ smooth jazz. And it had like, ding, ding. And you'd hear like, seagulls fly by. My grandmother and grandfather listened to the channel, and that's where I first started working in radio. And our first concert was Bobby Caldwell, what you won't do, do the love. And I was like, oh, my God. So after the show, I'm there, I'm working. I get six bucks an hour. I'm not even on the air. I'm just playing shows that are pre taped on a reel to reel. And he came up to me after the show and he's like, hey, kid, I noticed you. You were working hard. He said, what do you want to do? And I told him what I wanted to do. He goes, when I come back to Boston to perform again next year, you're gonna be on the radio. I can just tell. I know it well. And it was like, whoa. So a year later, I got a job doing traffic reports and I was on the radio and I went back to his concert, sat in the front row just so I could tell him he was right. And thank you for making me feel like I could do it. Because someone like that telling me that I could do it, it was like.
- [56:20]
C
Hearing that I could do it. Yeah.
- [56:22]
A
So, yeah, so thanks for jogging my memory on that. So when I asked both of you to come on the show to talk about this specifically, Dee mentioned something to me about. See if you can find a performance that Darrell and I did. Did you perform Cats in the Cradle or did you perform the Aerosmith Walk this Way?
- [56:43]
C
We did Walk this Way.
- [56:44]
B
I was at a holiday thing, right?
- [56:46]
C
It was a corporate gig, and Daryl asked me if I would sing the Tyler part. I was like, I sang this in the club spot forever. And the two of us are very. We're the same size. We're the same. We're the same style of the former. We're not, like, crisscrossing on that stage. We were working that, right? I mean, I love Tyler, but you and him, you and me. You and me, man. It was phenomenal.
- [57:11]
B
I remember 2015.
- [57:13]
C
One of my favorite moments, you guys.
- [57:14]
A
That was 10 years ago at Madison Square Garden. I love the 80s. One question before I. Well, two more. One is, was there anything that you two have ever wanted to ask each other? And don't feel bad if you didn't, because I'm hitting you on the spot with it. But if you did, I wanted to give you an opportunity to.
- [57:33]
C
Oh, okay. I got two questions for you. May have nothing, but me. I got two questions for you. One. Did you ever see Twisted Sister before you were famous? Because your guys came after us on the Long island clubs or something? Because Chuck died. Chuck Diaz said if there was no Twisted Sister, there'd be no Public Enemy. He used to come see us, and it was our defiance, our in your face, our f you attitude, which we had in spades, you know? And he. He saw that, and. And he said that inspired me to put together a fuck you band, you know? And so I was wondering if. Because we played Queens, we played no Staten Island.
- [58:17]
B
All of them friends all saw you. But me having the best parents in the world. I was always the curfew kid. I was always a kid.
- [58:30]
C
Me, too. I never went to concerts, so it was out of the house.
- [58:35]
B
So I heard about all of this. And then when I got into business, of course I started seeing all your videos on tv, and we would. I would sit there, watch y' all on tv, and everybody was talking about. They just went to the concert. And every time I would sit around and see you on tv, they were like, d, that's nothing. We saw him live last Saturday. Or we saw him live. So people would always rub it in.
- [58:58]
C
I was curious because we're local.
- [59:03]
B
I have a question for him. Cause just like he said, do you get upset being called a glam bandy. Cause Twisted Sister was a badass band to me. I didn't think y' all fit into the cheesy, you know, industry.
- [59:22]
C
Yeah, the hair metal. They call it hair metal.
- [59:25]
B
You know, it was like y'. All, y' all were. It was almost like you was in your own genre, is what I'm trying to say. Cause it was punk, then it was y', all, then it was metal, and then it was Ozzy. So y' all never fit in. Like, I would always get confused saying, why D Snider, this is a beast. You know what I'm saying?
- [59:46]
C
Thank you.
- [59:47]
B
You wasn't even industry. Y' all just played your music and moved on.
- [59:51]
C
Thank you, man.
- [59:51]
B
So did you ever get hated being considered a. Because a clan band means you was just that for that period of time, y' all was a badass with some great songs.
- [60:03]
C
I thank you. I, I, I. When I've come, I've really analyzes, you know, as part. It comes with having all your brain cells intact. Yeah, every. This is. And this is the truth. I don't know if you guys know this. Every label applied to every form of music is derogatory. And it was not. The musicians didn't take the name. It was given by critics.
- [60:29]
B
Yes.
- [60:29]
C
Yeah. Jazz.
- [60:31]
E
Yeah.
- [60:32]
C
Blues, Funk, hip hop, punk. That. Heavy metal, hair metal. All these terms were terms that were given, written by some writers. And, oh, they're a hair metal bat. Oh, they're. Oh, they're a jet. Jazz was a derogatory term. Punk was not a term that the bands, the early. The original punk bands, they hated that. Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin, AC dc. They don't call themselves heavy metal bands. They hate being called heavy metal bands. But the people embrace the labels. They don't see it as a negative thing. They don't view it. The fans don't see it as negative. And I just accept it. Hence 29 years of doing a radio show called the House of Hair. But it's. I didn't name the show, but that's. It's, it's. It's affectionate to the fans. But we got the, we got those, those, those labels put on us. We all. Every music form has hated the label because it basically limits you. It says that you're not. Oh, you're. Yes. You're not just a musician. You're not just an artist. You're. Oh, they're lose. And they're really trying to define you and limit you. And, you know, and so many bands have been limited by that.
- [61:49]
B
And it wasn't even their fault. So. You know that you're the second person in my musical career who I have heard say that.
- [61:58]
C
Oh, okay.
- [61:59]
B
You know who the other person was that I heard say that and was just like you.
- [62:03]
C
Who?
- [62:03]
B
Ginger Baker. The drummer. The drummer?
- [62:07]
C
No shit.
- [62:08]
B
From Queen, you mentioned. I've seen him on this documentary.
- [62:13]
C
Oh, Beware of Ginger Baker. That documentary was great.
- [62:17]
B
He said, it's fucking music, man. I hate when they do that shit. They just doing that to be disrespectful. And I was like, wow, you're the second artist who fucking knows what they talking about who have said that. That's true.
- [62:30]
C
It's limiting. It's limiting your audience. It's limiting how much airplay you would get. Oh, you're this. That's why MTV was so great, because it had such a cast, such a broad net. They were just looking for a visual entity.
- [62:45]
B
You.
- [62:45]
C
And so you would, you know, the exposure for a band like Twisted Sister.
- [62:50]
B
Yes.
- [62:50]
C
And for Run dmc. Look, for sure, with Aerosmith. I mean, literally the crossover point. But people who weren't listening to your genre of music got a chance to see you and know you a little and appreciate you.
- [63:03]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [63:03]
C
You know, it was an invaluable moment in time, but it's gone.
- [63:08]
A
Labels can polarize people and making them not want to even see, which is why this is what I learned. Letterman. The reason why Letterman always put the bands on later in the show is because he was afraid if he put them up front, people, if they didn't like that artist or wasn't into that music, they would turn it off. So smart. Because. And also, award shows needed labels so that they could put it on the award. Cause I remember when. Remember when they came up with the heavy metal genre.
- [63:38]
C
Do not get me started. Metallica played and Jethro Tull won the first heavy metal award of all of that. Yeah.
- [63:47]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [63:48]
A
Well, that just goes to show you that labels don't work. And it's sort of a metaphor for the world we're living in today, too, which I think you know.
- [63:56]
B
Yeah, 100%. While all this division is going on.
- [63:59]
A
That's what it does.
- [64:00]
B
People are fighting over a name. You're not even that you're a person. Motherfucker. You think you're that. You know what I'm saying?
- [64:07]
A
That's right. He has spoken.
- [64:09]
B
That's why.
- [64:09]
C
Hold on.
- [64:10]
B
What's funny? Yeah. What's funny is that's why I love you so much.
- [64:14]
A
I don't want to let you blame me.
- [64:15]
B
Instead of saying, I'm the king of rap, I said, I'm the King of Rock. Cause all of rock was my second question. I thought you was the King of rock. The reason why I said King of Rock was all the rock acts. You know what I'm saying? All of them, you know, from Queen to Twisted Sister to David Bowie. I wanted to be that, but I had a problem. I couldn't sing, and I didn't have a band. So hip hop allowed me to steal. I mean, sample all the music of my favorite bands. And I said, I screamed on the King of Rock. Because we would do press conferences, D and Lane and the critics, and they would always ask me, excuse me, dmc, where do you think you'll be in two years? Is hip hop a fad? Are you going to die like disco? I'm 18 years old. I'm taking it personally. And I'm saying, motherfucker, I would be the King of Rock. And Elvis is going to bow when I walk into the room. When I step on the stage, Steven Tyler's going to hand me to my. This is just me crying in my fret.
- [65:14]
C
So I get that, though. I get what you're saying.
- [65:17]
B
When I started screaming at King of Rock and I would meet people like Hank Williams Jr. And Bon Jovi and all the rockers, they would say, yeah, man, we like what y' all doing. Keep doing what you're doing. Because they seen that we was a rebellion against. Against people who was criticizing us and labeling.
- [65:34]
C
And labeling. Yeah, yeah. No, I get that.
- [65:38]
B
And you're speaking of talk shows, Lynn. That's why we put Larry Bud Melman from the David Letterman show at the front door of the Rock Roll hall of Fame Museum in the King of Rock video. Remember, it's Larry going, you guys can't come in here. This is a rock and roll museum. And I go, what? I'm the King of Rock? And we go into the museum. It was awesome. Yeah. And you know what I'm saying? So we said, I. I'm gonna give MTV something to show to rock people that don't think I'm legitimate.
- [66:06]
A
It's just amazing, too. You both took risks. You went out there. One other thing I just have to add in there is that Suzette was probably a lot to do with their look, which probably had something to do with why they use the word glam. Oh, outfits, makeup, hair.
- [66:23]
C
You can't. She will not accept. Take blame.
- [66:26]
A
Oh, not the blame, but just why.
- [66:28]
C
People know when she met me, I. So I was inspired by the glitter bands of the early 70s. Alice Cooper, David Bowie, Slade, T. Rex, all coming out of England, all this stuff. And they were New York Dolls.
- [66:39]
B
New York Dolls, yeah.
- [66:41]
C
Yeah. So I was into all that stuff, and I was doing it really badly. And. And. And Suzette, she. When we started dating, she started. She was. She would like, push me to try stuff. She'd go, how about I wear some nail polish? I'm not wearing nail polish. I'm not wearing it.
- [66:58]
A
Just try it.
- [66:59]
C
And she'd go. She go, oh, just a. She puts a black on. Well, black turned to purple, turned to blue, turned to red, turned to pink. And I had pink nails for 20 years. And then she said, why don't you wear some lipstick? I'm not wearing lipstick. I'm not gay. She goes, oh, come on. Just a little gloss. A little gloss turns a little beige. By the end, it was bright red lips for 20 years. So she kept pushing me to, if you're gonna do it, she said, if you gotta take a chance. And when I say, well, you know, yeah, I guess it's fun wearing makeup. She goes, oh, dude, you don't wear makeup. You wear war pants. She says, you're not.
- [67:36]
A
And.
- [67:36]
C
And I looked at it, and it looked like, you know, I was. Looked like I was on, you know, with. It's just like anger makeup, you know? So, anyway. But yeah, Suzette. Suzette's responsible. Yes.
- [67:46]
A
Then he took a turkey drum and.
- [67:48]
C
He said, I want to be the best you, you could be. And d. You ain't pretty. At the beginning, I was all like this. She goes, you ain't pretty. Let me help you.
- [67:59]
A
Well, besides everything or everyone getting to see you both on Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle, the song that Changed Our Lives doc recently released on Amazon. What else do you two have coming up? Because I've read a few things, but I want to know, you know, from your mouth what's going on. I want to start because you're always working on something fun. I know that you both are always doing something. This is why you're. You are always.
- [68:25]
C
What are you doing? Darrell?
- [68:26]
A
Yeah, Darrel. You got any new books or singles or comic books?
- [68:29]
B
Currently, the fun new music now at the end of November, Agnostic Front, their new album is out now. Oh, Jesus. So I'm on the album on this single called Matter of Life and Death. Agnostic Front featuring dmc. That's out right now. My second children's book Comes out is called Daryl's Christmas in Hollywood. It's a Christmas story about me growing up. It's for kindergarten and fifth grade, but January 23rd, my new single off my new upcoming album is called she Gets Me High. It's me and Sebastian Bach on vocals, Travis Barker on drums.
- [69:15]
C
Nice.
- [69:16]
B
Mick Mars, who's phenomenal on guitar, and Duff McKagan on bass.
- [69:20]
C
Amazing.
- [69:21]
B
So I have goosebumps. Yeah. We did a song together in the studio. It's called she Gets me hot. Dropping January 23rd. And then I'll probably put the album out. The album will probably hit in August. I'm still putting the album together, but that's what's going on right now. Agnostic Front, Matter of Life and Death, which is out now. You can check out the video. Get the single Darryl's Christmas in Hollis. And January 23rd. DMC, Sebastian Bach on the mic, Travis Bark on drums, Mick on guitar, and Duff on bass.
- [69:53]
C
Damn. Damn.
- [69:54]
A
D. When he came to the house, when he came to the studio last year, he showed up at the front door and it was on December 12th. So we're very close to Christmas. And he handed me. He's like, hi, here, Merry Christmas. And it was a bag of cookies. It was Christmas.
- [70:07]
B
Oh, yeah, I got cookies, too. Yeah.
- [70:09]
A
It's got the words from Christmas time and Hollis, Queens on the back of it. It's hilarious.
- [70:14]
B
I have Daryl. Yeah. DMC also means Daryl makes cookies. You could go to dmc-col Cookies.com and get some DMC cookies.
- [70:24]
C
Or it could be Daryl, Merry Christmas.
- [70:26]
B
Exactly. Daryl makes cakes.
- [70:28]
A
I love it. Now, Daryl D, I did hear some little rumor or something, because what was the name of your last tour, your very last tour with Twisted Sister, it was called.
- [70:39]
C
What, you mean 40 and fucking?
- [70:41]
A
Yeah.
- [70:43]
C
That was supposed to be the Bitter End. And it's been 10 years. And this is the. I've told this very publicly, but the truth. I said I would never reunite. I don't believe in. I think it's when people do that. We saw it in blood and then two years later, you know. But I had a little scare. I'm fine.
- [71:03]
A
What do you mean?
- [71:03]
C
But it got me reflecting. Well, I won't get into details, but okay. Yeah, I'm fine.
- [71:09]
B
Okay.
- [71:09]
C
But it made me reflect a little bit, you know, and say, wow, that was scary. And I don't want to go out like that.
- [71:17]
B
Right.
- [71:17]
C
How do I want to go out? And I called the guys and said, next year is 50 years since we joined forces. 1976.
- [71:26]
B
Wow.
- [71:26]
C
What do you Think about doing some shows. And the guy said, because I told them never gonna happen. And they were like, are you serious? Yes. Like they couldn't believe what was Eddie's reaction.
- [71:38]
A
I need to know.
- [71:40]
C
They had to think about it. But Eddie was. Eddie and John are like. They like they never expect to get the call from me. Wow. They expect it to be completely them. And they, and they never even. We were getting constant offers over the last 10 years, bigger and bigger offers. I just said not happening. Yeah, not happening. And then I called and so we had a meeting, we talked about it and we said, all right, let's one more time put the band back together. Putting the band. So it's not a tour. We're doing like 20, 30 shows around the world, big festivals and stuff. But yeah, so. But then just as recent headline in the rock mags was Dean Snyder says. I don't know if I'm. If I'm brave or stupid because now that I've committed and now that the shows have been announced. Oh damn, I gotta do. I gotta do 90 minutes. I mean like, damn, I gotta get back to it. I haven't sang like that. That's like 18 songs. But that. But the thing I'm most excited about is I'm directing my first movie. I started a new film company called Defiant Artists.
- [72:41]
B
Oh, wow.
- [72:42]
C
My first movie which is called My Enemy's Enemy is going to go. I'm going to be directing in the first quarter. We start pre production in February.
- [72:49]
E
Awesome.
- [72:50]
C
So I'm going to be sitting in the director's chair and it's going to be intense.
- [72:55]
B
That's really exciting.
- [72:57]
C
Wow. So more. I'm always more interested in the new thing than the old thing. I'm more interested in like showing doing something that like I haven't done before, you know. The old thing's great and I'm proud of it and it's our history, you know, and I love that. But to say yeah, people. But yeah, I wrote this new. I wrote, I wrote a novel and I did and you know, fr. It's called Frats and it didn't sell, but just I did it. Just saying I'm going to do it. I'm going to write it. And it came out, it was published. You know, that's the thing.
- [73:25]
A
Finishing things. Finishing things.
- [73:27]
C
But I'm going to tie up everything with the cats in the cradle. I cheated. I cheated and I fixed the problem, guys. Now you've fixed the problem of time. You build a family compound.
- [73:41]
A
I was just going to ask you.
- [73:42]
C
About that entire family.
- [73:43]
A
DMC D has got a compound. He built all his kids for grandkids, houses, all on the compound so they.
- [73:52]
C
Could be near each other. We all live together, so we all live. You know, I try to stay, give them their space. You know, that's brilliant, but way more in between moments. I mean, my. My latest grandson was born. I got a phone call from Shane. He says, abby's in labor. She had a midwife on the compound. And like, 20 minutes after, he. Chilean Killian. I call him Chilean. He's so chill. But Killian was born. This freshly swaddled baby was brought into our house, and, like, here he is. I was like, Holy. 20 minutes. This is just so warm out of the oven. You know, I mean. I mean, it's that you never get to experience something like that regular life. You know, we go to the hospital during visiting hours, and everybody's there, and you look through the glass, and, I mean, it couldn't. So, yeah, I cheated. I spent all the money I had on building this place so that we have time together. And we're all together now.
- [74:55]
A
It's a beautiful thing, what you're doing. And I bet Suzette's super happy, because I know when you had the reality show, she wanted to have more kids. Kids. The look in your face was like, what?
- [75:06]
C
You already have like, five. Super happy. Except now she has to. You know, she's a Virgo. She has to decorate everything. So now she's got a compound that has to be finished and detailed. And I'm like, oh, my God, Darryl.
- [75:21]
A
When I went over to their house one time. Where's Suzette? Oh, she's on the roof, power cleaning.
- [75:27]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [75:28]
A
The shingles.
- [75:29]
B
Oh, yeah. Yes.
- [75:30]
A
I'm not even kidding.
- [75:32]
C
No, for real.
- [75:33]
A
She's a power washer.
- [75:33]
C
She's a power washer. Yeah. She's.
- [75:35]
A
Well. Dee Snider, Daryl McDaniels. After 20 years apart, this one song brought us back together again. And I'm so grateful. And it's still changing lives and healing families and creators and listeners for the better everywhere. And I just can't thank you both enough for coming on the show and sharing these personal sides of you that we wouldn't normally get to hear or see. And even one day, your kids are gonna probably hear this. This, like, wow.
- [76:02]
C
I.
- [76:02]
A
You know, if they haven't heard it.
- [76:03]
B
Before, you know, I want to say shout out to the Chapin family, Jen.
- [76:08]
C
All of them.
- [76:09]
B
I love y'.
- [76:09]
C
All.
- [76:10]
B
I love them. They suck her.
- [76:12]
C
I want say something funny. I say, somebody, Jason. He said, dude, he sent me an email. He said, thank you so much for doing the show. It was so great. You were such a great part of it. Blah, blah, blah. I want to send you a vinyl album of Harry's latest release because he's got, you know, some. I said, jason, you know what I said on the show?
- [76:32]
A
I hate folk music.
- [76:35]
C
I said, don't waste. You turned him down, of course. I said, I don't even have a stereo. I don't even listen to music in my house. I don't, you know, Jason, I'll take it. That's real funny. But I said, yeah. I said, oh, I gave it to Darryl. I said, there's somebody else who's better served with this record. I said, no, see, here's what you.
- [76:56]
B
Got to do on a compound. You put a little basket. All folk music for DMC that Dee Snyder has to filter through him to me.
- [77:07]
C
I love forward it to you man.
- [77:12]
A
Well, for those of you sticking around to listen to this conversation, thank you so much. You can stream Cats in the Cradle, the song that changed our lives on Amazon prime. And you can support the Chapin family's mission while which is an incredible organization, as you heard on the show. And yeah, and this Thanksgiving, put the phones and screens down, look up and be the parent your kids remember. And Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Thanksgiving.
- [77:38]
C
Lynn. Happy Thanksgiving. Daryl. Happy Thanksgiving. Buzz. Happy Thanksgiving. Willie in the back there. Somehow they're working too hard, brother.
- [77:54]
B
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C
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