← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
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- [00:00]
Host
Where'd you get those shoes?
- [00:02]
Charity Rose Thielen
Easy.
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Host
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- [02:03]
Lynne Hoffman
Music Saved Me.
- [02:04]
Matt Gervais
It's a Fleetwood Macian process where we're literally a lot of, a lot of songs. You can kind of are grappling with interband dynamics to be, to be honest, you know, and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning and you're learning from each other. And there's just as much value in that as there is in a personal relationship or some other experience that you went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much time together that is literally like, it does end up becoming a part of, like, what occupies our minds and what we're processing and going through.
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Lynne Hoffman
I'm Lynne Hoffman and welcome to the Music Saved Me podcast, the podcast that explores the deep healing forces of music. Now, if you like this podcast, thank you and please share with your friends and don't forget to follow us so you never miss an episode. I'm so grateful. Today I get to speak with Matt Gervais and Charity Rose Thielen from the American indie folk band the Head and the Heart. Maddie and Charity, welcome to Music Save me. This is a big thrill for us.
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Matt Gervais
Thank you for having us.
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Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah, thank you so much.
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Lynne Hoffman
All right, so first I want to ask you, your band formed rather serendipitously at an open mic night at a bar in Seattle. Can you tell us how music. Music brought all of you together initially?
- [03:28]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of. It was kind of a hodgepodge of us, of individuals being attracted to this. This Irish pub called Conor Burn in Ballard. And John had moved from. A lot of us were actually, you know, coming from different states, and it was in our early 20s. John moved from Virginia. Kenny had come up from LA. Josiah also came up from kind of the LA area to go to school in Seattle. And I just been studying overseas and coming home. I was born and raised Seattle, but had literally met the band two weeks after getting home. Chris was the only one there who later joined, and he was the bartender of this open mic. And, you know, we all kind of met very serendipitously. You know, Kenny went to even. Not even play music at the open mic, but he came to watch a Lakers game and saw a couple of us, you know, performing and, you know, said, oh, well, I play piano. Never, never had been in a band, didn't read music. But, you know, Kenny has this. Has this musical genius that he possesses. And so he joined and I came through a friend and, you know, and so with the exception of Tyler, no one. Tyler later drove out from Richmond, Virginia. He knew John, but with the exception of them, you know, we hadn't known each other. And then we later met Maddie at the music festival, kind of first music festival that the band played and his band was playing. And, you know, because of circumstances, we lost one of our members and he wanted Maddie to take. Take his place. And so it's just been this. This kind of family collective how we've operated as a band with multiple songwriters and multiple personalities, and we've gotten to know one another.
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Lynne Hoffman
It's a big band.
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Charity Rose Thielen
You know, we.
- [05:33]
Lynne Hoffman
We didn't.
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Charity Rose Thielen
We really. We really bonded from this kind of. We formed. You know, there was. There's.
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Lynne Hoffman
With.
- [05:42]
Charity Rose Thielen
You know, in a very unspoken way, we formed because we connected immediately. And had this kind of wild wonder about, you know, at that point in life and music and didn't know what we were doing, didn't know who we were, and we just were meant to be together. And if we've tried to maintain that. That kind of uncertain wonder, I think through the whole thing, the whole time, that's very special.
- [06:11]
Lynne Hoffman
It's a big band, so, I mean, there's a lot of parts. Yeah.
- [06:15]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yes. Yes.
- [06:16]
Lynne Hoffman
So that's a lot. Your music often explores themes. Home, belonging, personal growth. How has your relationship with these concepts sort of evolved through the years that you've been together?
- [06:31]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah, well, I think. I think the early days, you know, so much, especially the first. First album, was. Yeah. You know, leaving home, looking for belonging, looking, you know, kind of questioning, what is home? Who am I? Where do I belong? And kind of, you know, a lot of. A lot of the themes that occur, you know, in all of us, kind of in that time frame of life, I would say. But then it. It reoccurs, you know, and you get into your 30s and have another existential. And 40s have another existential crisis, you know, and. And you kind of are reminded of the same questions. But I think there's so much comfort in kind of moving through uncertainty in music, you know, there's so much comfort that you find from making it and also engaging with it as a listener. And, you know, that's for sure.
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Lynne Hoffman
You know, this. Maddie, did you have anything to add to that?
- [07:35]
Matt Gervais
Oh, yeah. I was just gonna say, like, you know, you're kind of processing these things. You're talking about personal growth when you're. When you. When we all started music, you know, we were all, you know, in our teens, basically. And it starts off being this, like. Almost like one plus one equals two sort of dynamic where you have a feeling and you're translating it through song and it's. And as you. You kind of learn that, you work that muscle and you realize the catharsis that comes with that. Slowly but surely as adults, it becomes more and more of like, oh, I see what I'm doing now. At first, I didn't realize what this was, and now I see what its power is, and I can almost harness it more intentionally, if that makes sense.
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Lynne Hoffman
Yes.
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Matt Gervais
And so that's kind of been really an amazing thing, is kind of like, as we've all matured and as a songwriter, we found ways of looking into what that experience is and what that transaction is that you're having when you're writing and understanding it. And it's been really interesting to go back and listen to records from heroes of ours that are at the same point in their careers that we are now. Whereas before, it used to be like, we're looking up to them, and now we're like, okay, this person is the same age when they made this record that I love that I am now. And what does it mean to them at the time? And what does it mean to me to be making music at that same age? And, you know, that's just been kind of a really, you know, comforting thing almost, you know, to have that.
- [09:08]
Lynne Hoffman
So, yeah, I mean, certainly when you have a certain amount of time behind you and you can look back and see patterns and things that you've learned and you didn't even realize you were going through at that time until you get here.
- [09:19]
Matt Gervais
Exactly.
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Lynne Hoffman
It's pretty amazing. Speaking of which, and you mentioned you have a large band and a lot of moving parts. You have spoken about seeing a therapist, the band as a whole. And all I could think of in my mind is, when you're together, you're probably more together with the band than you are with your own families. I mean, you work really hard, and it's almost like a marriage, and that can't always be easy. And I think prioritizing mental health is pretty incredible. I've only heard of one other band that did this, and it was Metallica.
- [09:57]
Charity Rose Thielen
No, but I mean, that same documentary, right?
- [10:00]
Lynne Hoffman
And I mean, it was pretty. It was brutal, but it was. It was, like, amazing that they did that. And that was a group of guys, which is hard enough to get people to seek some counseling, as you know. How has prioritizing that mental health affected the creative process now, now that you've sort of gone through that?
- [10:22]
Matt Gervais
Well, it's interesting, like, you know, every time that we've mentioned that or brought it up with other bands that are peers of ours, when we encounter them on tour, they're always like, wow, that's cool. You guys do that. And they kind of. And you can see their gears spinning, like, why haven't we done this? Like, we should be doing this, too. Because there's so much that can be gleaned from it, and you realize that your fortunes are tied together whether you like it or not. You know, you. You know, it's like the. You're greater than the sum of your parts, and no one member necessarily, like, has the ability to go off and strike it on their own. And, you know, Metallica, actually, it's ironically, one of the few where that actually did happen with Dave Mustaine going off and creating Megadeth, but it's very rare for that to happen. And so, like, realizing that we have, like, a, you know, our fortunes are tied together and it's important that we stay together has been something that's definitely informed where we're going. To answer your question, though, so you're talking about how does it, like, impact our creative process, right? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of very Fleetwood Mackie to be. It's a Fleetwood Mackie in process, whatever. Literally, a lot of. A lot of songs you can kind of are grappling with interband dynamics, to be fair, to be honest, you know, and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning and you're learning from each other. And there's just as much value in that as there is in a personal relationship or some other experience that you went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much time together, that is literally, like. It does end up becoming a part of, like, what occupies our minds and what we're processing and going through. Yeah.
- [12:15]
Charity Rose Thielen
Two things that come to mind for me. For me, songs that. That are incredibly impactful for me as a listener are songs that. That feel like the writer was very connected to themselves from within, very honest. And I think when you aren't just a solo artist, but you're in a collective, you have to get to a place where you're safe enough to be vulnerable. And for me, you know, songs and music, I can be more honest in songs than, you know, talking about something, you know, talking about that theme. And when you have, you know, multiple relationships and then there's dynamics in groups, right. You have to work with intention to get to a place where you feel safe with one another in order to. To kind of release in such an honest way and create in such an honest way, which then if everyone's guards come down, you know, in the, like, the recording, writing process as a collective, then, you know, that's another layer of. Of connection in the process that is so powerful and that nuance and magic can be captured in live takes, you know, in the music itself. And so it's just building upon this connection that starts within the individual and then it starts moving outward. I think therapies is necessary for that. It really gives a lot of tools in terms of communication. I think that's the biggest takeaway is just learning how to be more understanding and more curious with one another in communication. The second thing is it baffles me that it isn't more of a, a norm. It's, it's, I think in my mind the support, the infrastructures that support bands like labels. There should be an arm of like a mental health arm, a holistic kind of domain that is supporting the bands because it's, it's a pretty, it's. It, you know, it's like, it's like a faceless marketplace that's not considering the human and it's not sustaining. And there's a reason why addiction is prevalent amongst musicians and why, you know, it's mind boggling to me and we're moving more towards support, but I wish that there were even within, there was more of a recognition and infrastructure for that than just kind of tertiary organizations and. But yeah, I'm grateful that. I'm grateful that we found this incredible, incredible therapist who I knew intuitively would. She really emphasizes group dynamics and she's resonated with everyone and she's been amazing for us.
- [15:19]
Lynne Hoffman
I have to thank you for sharing that. A lot of people assume that you have it all. You've got this great band and you're touring the world and you know, people don't realize how difficult it can be for artists to be together like that. And music is a therapy in and of itself. But you still need levels of things to get yourself through life and for you to share that is pretty astounding actually. You know, you're letting, you're feeling vulnerable enough to say that publicly. And I bet it helps a lot of people to know that even the most talented and, you know, famous people actually do need some help too. And it's okay to, to get that and it, and it works.
- [16:10]
Charity Rose Thielen
Oh. Oh, yeah. I mean, thank you. Thank you for, for even, you know, thank you for saying that. You know, I think I can't help but just always, you know, be honest.
- [16:22]
Lynne Hoffman
I know I'm cursed with it too.
- [16:25]
Charity Rose Thielen
But I think that, you know, there's always, and there's always a thread of, of deep gratitude and understanding of the privilege and the gift that, that we have through everything, you know, and that's what one of the, you know, drivers and that keeps us going, you know, and, and that, you know, grand acknowledgment. But you know, every relationship we're human and if you're human in a relationship, there's always going to be. It's always a dance of understanding and then you multiply that times so many. And also, you know, when we started as a band, we were young, we, we were trying to stay informed and be sage and all these things. But this was new for all of us and we didn't know one another, so we didn't have that foundation. And so all of this is happening and it was just. There's such an intensity and an extreme. When you're on in the industry, we have extreme. Our year is booked with extremes where you're on or you're really on or you're really off, you're gone away or you're home. And so I think it's just, it's trying to navigate those extremes to kind of bring them more towards the center in a healthy, balanced way.
- [17:47]
Lynne Hoffman
When did you first both discover that music had healing benefits to your fans and to listeners of music?
- [17:57]
Matt Gervais
Well, yeah, I think we all started making music because we recognized that power, you know, from, you know, very, very, very, very young. We, you know, whether it be music the way we experienced it, you know, going to. For me it was Catholic church every Sunday and, you know, and sharing songs with family members. My grandfather was a singer and, you know, just the, the shared experience that you have with that. My parents were big, huge music fans and so we grew up listening to all the classics, you know, like, they have great taste. Bob Dylan music or Bob Dylan records and Neil, Bruce Springsteen and you know, you know, Buddy Holly and music from the 50s and the 40s and, and a lot of great jazz records too. And just pretty, you know, as an early teen slash tween, I guess, you know, before I was even a teenager, I had an older brother who started learning guitar and kind of, we, we formed a band with our close neighbor down the street. And it became this very immediate like, form of processing and an outlet for stuff that, you know, feelings and experiences that you couldn't, you know, quite necessarily, you know, comprehend, you know. And so music was always that, you know, it was always a way of transporting to the, to someplace else in a healthy way that, that gave us that drive to do it ourselves essentially. And then, you know, come full circle and seeing what you, what you mentioned, like with how the music that then you then write affects others is just the most profoundly amazing experience and affirming experience to ever have happen. You know, you can, there's nothing that can even remotely come close to it because you realize the full circle benefit of putting yourself out there and you, and you've, you've gotten so much from all the people that came before you and you're channeling and turning your life experiences into these new creations that are doing that for someone else. It's It's a profoundly gratifying thing and it's easy to forget that that's what you're doing, you know, but like, it's just when you see it on the faces of people that come out to the shows, it's just, it's everything.
- [20:21]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah. Because I think in. In many ways in the creation process, I am. I think I was born this way, but also conditioned. I don't know, you know, but I'm a, I'm a deep empath, a highly sensitive being and I love it. And I'm the youngest, you know, and in our family line and you know, I can't help but just think of others a lot. But in the music creation process, I'm not thinking about anyone else. I'm again, trying to be honest, the most honest that I can be with myself so I can connect to the deep parts of who I am and also be open to receiving whatever is coming from beyond me, you know, and it's. Yeah, it's cathartic. Cathartic and healing for myself. And so it's, it's extremely. Not unexpected, but surprising every time. And so beautiful to know that someone is reacting in the same way. And it like to. To the music, to how I. I did when I was making it. And so I think there's that, you know, you can't, you can't. Truth is, Truth can't help but be attractive, you know, and connect. So it's. That's the power, you know, and it's beyond. I say like the, the. The most powerful songs and music canon come from this place that is beyond yourself, beyond the writer and in the room. And you're almost receiving. You're a conduit and vessel for this. And so it's outside of ourselves what we're connecting with.
- [22:00]
Lynne Hoffman
Absolutely. And empaths can have a hard time with large crowds with. But it makes sense though because you're, you're sucking in all of the energy, good and the bad and all of it. But, but the weird thing is, is that at a concert where you have fans of your music and you're fans of making the music and performing it and you're feeding off of each other all the good, then that's a safe, large crowd environment for someone who picks up on all that stuff, which. It just kind of dawned on me. I've always had issues with large crowds and I've never been a musician on stage making them just feel amazing. So it just sort of dawned on me that that's how you could probably Handle it in that.
- [22:44]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, 100%. And as a fan, you know, I think about experiences of, like, when. When I'll, you know, be in the audience. We've. We've been lucky enough to see, you know, Paul McCartney a couple of times. And, you know, just like you look at the faces and the tears streaming down these strangers that you don't know that are sitting in the same row as you and you sharing in this experience, and this music is meant the same thing to them as it's meant to you for. For so long, for decades and decades, your whole life. And so as a fan, you know that that's what's happening in the audience, or at least you as a performer, that's what you hope is happening in the audience. And. And you know that it is when you see. And you look out and you see those tears and you see those smiles and you see that release that everyone's experience experiencing, and it just gives you the ability to reinvigorate what those songs meant to you in. When you were writing them. And. And it just. Yeah, I mean, it is a spiritual experience. There's no other way of putting it. Like, that's the whole. Like, that's the joy of. Of live music and of concerts and especially with artists that you love. It's all about. It's all about that shared sense of community and shared history and catharsis and all the good things.
- [24:02]
Charity Rose Thielen
And it's. And it's crazy that, you know, that can the. It's. It's that, like, power to unify, especially in, like, the live. The live music setting, you know, is. I always go back to the fact that I learned a few years ago that the average American attends one. One concert per year. And so it's a rare occurrence to be in attendance at this concert, you know, and I think that there's so much power in that. And so everyone in attendance, you don't know their relationship with the music, but nine times out of ten, they've been moved deep enough by the music to want to come see and experience it live. And so it's this rare occurrence for the person, but everyone is drawn there for the same reason. And it's like you're uniting. Thousands of people are united and connecting in various moments and ways and songs. And that is such a powerful, beautiful thing to have in society. And moving our collective towards unification, towards connection and away from division, that is the tool that music can have. Live music. And also just listening to it, you know, on headphones or in your car, having that as a tool that can heal and, and bring us, you know, move us away from fear and more towards love on that spectrum is beyond extraordinary. And, you know, I think we're learning there's evidence, there's greater and greater evidence on the neurological side of, of how, how, how it can heal the individual and thus the collective and our society.
- [25:51]
Lynne Hoffman
Yes. Listening to music, going to shows together and listening to music. All of it. We'll be right back with more of the music Saved Me podcast. And by the way, if you like this podcast, you are going to love our companion podcast called Taking a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend Buzz Knight, and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:12]
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Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts I.
- [26:47]
Voiceover
Could catch anything sitting in this doct doctor's waiting room. Okay, just wiped his runny nose on my jacket and the guy next to me sitting in a pool of perspiration insists on sharing my armrest.
- [27:00]
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Next time, make an appointment with an Amazon One medical provider. There's no waiting and no sweaty guy. Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.
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- [28:46]
Lynne Hoffman
Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast. The podcast where we discuss the healing powers of music with some of the biggest names in music as well as up and comers. Maddie, we'll start with you. Who are some of your favorite artists or songs that have truly impacted you, say maybe a particularly difficult time in your life?
- [29:10]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good one. I, I mean there's. Because there's countless, there's so many. You know, I can think back to my teenage years and you know, listening to, you know, bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and, and like, you know, you know, Green Day and bands that, you know, I looked up to when I was younger and you know, going through the, the trials and tribulations of early adult. The Bachelor number two record by Emmy man and Rufus's want records are just so influential and so got me through my early 20s and Neil Young Silver and Gold, you know, around a similar period of time. Harvest Moon. Just countless, countless acts like that. You know, one of the, one of the ones that always sticks out of my head and it wasn't necessarily like a personal difficult time, but like as a Nation, post 9 11, Bruce Springsteen puts out the Rising and it's just this like absolute. He sums up so many of the feelings we were all having. Like in this way they're like, I don't know how you performed that magic trick, but thank you for that. You know what I mean? And every so often you just have to come to. I come to this like realization like, oh my God, thank God I live at the time that I live where these people gave these gifts to all of us because it's. I can't imagine my life without it. And I can put those records on that I put on it when I was in my early 20s or in my teens. And I have the exact same feeling that I had and I can remember the, the reason why I was going through something in that moment. You know, I can, I can, I can re. Experience painful as it was like when I lost one of my best Friends to a drug overdose, or when I lost my grandparents, or all these different feelings that you. You go through in life and. And they come right back to you, you know, but then, of course, they're. They're. They're viewed through the lens of history and all the things that you learned and processed before that and after that, it just becomes. It's just a very peaceful feeling because you get. You realize, okay, I can put this record on whenever I want to. And it's like, I can't believe all the anxiety that I was having because of what I was happening today just drifts away. It's gone. And I have that. That release again. It's. It's an incredible gift. So. Yeah.
- [31:45]
Charity Rose Thielen
Was there. I have a question, actually. Were there, like, talking about your grandfather, was there, like, a specific song that kind of in the moment, I guess, of his. His life's decline and mental decline? That.
- [32:02]
Matt Gervais
Yeah.
- [32:02]
Charity Rose Thielen
Point two or.
- [32:03]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, you could probably Google the words. I can't remember the name of the actual artist because it was. We didn't really have. It was pre.
- [32:11]
Charity Rose Thielen
Pre. Google, pre smartphone information back in the day.
- [32:17]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, yeah, back in the good old days. But it was like, here's my song, Violeta. It's the song that's in my heart. And this is. You know, my grandfather, who had Alzheimer's, was, you know, not capable of conversation in a way other than kind of reliving stories and reliving things that he had gone through in the, you know, distant, distant past. But, you know, these songs and these. These. These. These melodies would come back up and he would sing them over and over again. He just kind of like, you know, have an appreciation for the staying power. It lives in a different part of you than. Than the part of the brain that we typically access when we're, you know, responding to an email or driving down the highway or whatever it might. The case might be, it's. It lives somewhere else. It lives, you know, in the soul. And so it's just. It's. It's amazing to see that happen in real time with someone who has, you know, a mental decline or situation or, you know, something's like. Like Alzheimer's, which my grandfather looked at. Does that answer your question? Yeah.
- [33:25]
Lynne Hoffman
Take it from here, Charity.
- [33:29]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah, well, I mean, I think. I think the more that I learn, we learn, you know, but just about how there's, you know, a part of the brain that can only be communicated with through music is. Is. And the fact that our brains have evolved, you know, to maintain this access is Is says something, you know, and that makes me think of the Disney film Coco. That happened to be the first kind of dizzy film we showed our. Our eldest, who's four. Almost four. Yeah. I think just the power to be able to communicate and heal, you know, that means the music. The power that music has to do that, that is beyond a talk talking, a talk therapy or somatic therapy, or. It makes me. I can't help but cry hearing about.
- [34:15]
Matt Gervais
That.
- [34:18]
Lynne Hoffman
Just to make you feel better. I think almost every one of these podcasts that I've done has brought me to tears in a good way. But it's there. I mean, you don't see it, but I'm. I turn around, I'm like, yeah, it's just so special, all of that for me. Can I share with you? Your song hurts, but it goes away.
- [34:42]
Charity Rose Thielen
Oh, interesting.
- [34:43]
Lynne Hoffman
Okay, so tell me. First you have to tell me about the song, because for me, having someone, my husband or my best friend or someone. Anyone close to me, when I'm going through something, they say to me, it's gonna be okay. That changes everything. Especially if it's someone that you trust and love and they tell you that and just. You need to hear that sometimes. And I was just curious if you could tell me a little bit about that song.
- [35:11]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, I guess a line that sticks out to me is like, I've been noticing the leaves are changing colors. It just kind of like it's. It's talking about the passage of time, and despite the fact that we are. Might be in the thick of it right now, there's beauty in the passage of time, and the healing lies there. I'm not the only one who feels the weight of this, you know, it knows. It shows that you're. You're not the only person going through this. It's a shared experience. Regardless. Regardless of whether or not you feel like you're at the center of it. We've all. We're all in this together. Even when it comes down to, like, your own personal struggles, because we've. You know, everyone shares those struggles at one point or another in their life, and they are always an invitation to take the next step and move beyond the plane of existence that you've been on and step towards something greater than you would have conceptualized had you not gone through that experience in the first place. And so, yeah, like, to say it goes away. I mean, it's almost like it would be better almost to say it hurts and it stays with you, but it gets better.
- [36:31]
Lynne Hoffman
It gets easier to deal with.
- [36:33]
Matt Gervais
To quote the great Britney Spears, stronger than yesterday. No, it is one of those things where you become stronger for it, if that makes sense.
- [36:47]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yes.
- [36:47]
Matt Gervais
Right.
- [36:48]
Charity Rose Thielen
And I think as a person, as a person who carries and lives with heightened anxiety, I'd say, you know, and I think that there's a lot of, there's a lot of collective pain in the endemic of, of anxiety. But you know, emotional and mental pain, you know, and suffering that we all kind of dance through on a daily basis to varying degrees, living with anxiety. It's really the understanding that kind of trying to find the hope. Hope is the only way to kind of bring you out of that and bring you through it and not thinking, worst case scenario, you know, bringing you out of that cycle and that things your thoughts aren't. It's not the end of the world, you know, and that's. You find that hope and then you build that strength and that resilience to be able to move, you know, again. Music is, is one of the main tools that, that can bring me, bring me through that.
- [37:46]
Matt Gervais
Yeah, it's kind of funny. You could go, you could read a thousand self help books and before you realize like, oh, all I really needed to do was put on my favorite record and that, that had the same effect of just release and, and, and self actualization that you were looking for in the first place. You know, there's a lot of like, I think we, we can all, we've, we've all been through the part where you're kind of just. I mean, I can't say this is true for everyone. I'm sure it is, but like thinking everything all the time and you're like, oh my God, I just, I've just remembered that, that Harvest Moon exists. I'm gonna put Harbor Moon on. I did that last week. I was like, okay, this, this is, everything is good now.
- [38:24]
Charity Rose Thielen
You know, you're able to quiet the noise. You're able to quiet the noise. And it's like a form of meditation really, you know, and I guess to reference kind of songs, particular songs that were poignant for me along my life, you know, thus far. You know. As a child I grew up in a musical household with my mother being a violence violist orchestra teacher. So I couldn't help but be surrounded and played violin since I was very young. And so classical music, I was just, we listened to that so much. And also I have two older sisters and then my mother that, that I grew up with and we would sing hymns a lot as well. There are moments when I remember singing. Singing hymns in my grandma's Cadillac in small town Minnesota, where we moved to for a handful of years as a kid. And being the youngest, I would always add the last harmony. You know, I would fit in where I could, which is a lot. You know, it applies to being in this band too. With my harmonies. I'm always kind of the last. The last voice to find their way. One classical song that I always come back to and now I'm playing for my one daughter who calls it the most so beautiful and makes her fall asleep at the same time, is Debussy's Clair de Lune, which is just one of the most. It makes me feel all of the emotions whenever I put that song on, as well as Carnival of the Animals, the swan song by Sasson. Both of those tracks I think I could go to, you know, for the rest of my life and have carried with me, you know, since being a kid. But then moving forward. Green Day's good riddance Time of your life came out right when I was 12. Like I said, we had moved. I'm born and raised Seattle. All my extended family were in Minnesota, including my, you know, grandma Core in small town. And it was kind of near the end of her life. So my. My parents moved us all out to have a relationship with her and the rest. And for me, I had quite an existential crisis and realized that has then, since then, given me this kind of fierce independence and understanding. Being comfortable with isolation and later in my life really lends itself to. To writing songs and for the first time and et cetera. But I remember the day that we moved away and we had like, an overnight, actually, with our church community. And they put Green Day's Good riddance as the soundtrack to the photos. The photo, like the slideshow. I was profoundly moved by that song. For my sisters, there is sadness for the leaving of the relationships, the community. And now we're, you know, we're moving back to Seattle. For me, there was. It was almost tears of joy. And I'll never forget just the vision, the visual of me, like, looking out of the rear of the car and us all waving, you know, goodbye. But for me, it was, you know, these tears of joy knowing, you know, I'm good friends, like, I'm happy to be leaving you. I'm happy to be moving on and moving back to. To where I feel like my home really is, you know, back in Seattle. And, yeah, I'll never, you know, forget the poignance of that song and come to think of it, you know, there's such a, like, violin instrumental in the middle of that song, you know, for quite a long time. And that obviously resonates with. With me. But speaking of hymns, you know, growing up with that, when I. When we moved home to Seattle and probably a couple years later, right before I started getting a guitar and writing. Writing music, Sister, Act 2, my sister and I would sing to, you know, the classic hymn His Eyes on the Sparrow. And that was really my introduction into Lauryn Hill. We would always, you know, duet that song. And there's such profound power in that, in that rendition and that song. And that really opened up my world to, you know, Lauryn Hill and the MIS education, her solo stuff. And, you know, she was a huge, huge influence on. On Me, you know, musically. And just seeing the power of music, it's pretty powerful.
- [43:03]
Lynne Hoffman
There's something about harmonies, too, that I don't know what it is.
- [43:08]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yes.
- [43:08]
Lynne Hoffman
Just powerful. With lots.
- [43:10]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yes.
- [43:11]
Lynne Hoffman
Oh, my gosh, I wish I knew what it was. Still trying to figure it out.
- [43:16]
Charity Rose Thielen
We're learning.
- [43:17]
Lynne Hoffman
Yes. Now, I have a couple more things that I want to ask you about before I let you go because you've been so generous with your time. First of all, I wanted to comment on something you said earlier. It's almost as if the way you were describing music was your record shelf, for a lack of a better word, or the thing you go through to find your albums or however you get your music, which is kind of dating myself now, is kind of like your. Your medicine cabinet.
- [43:47]
Matt Gervais
Totally.
- [43:48]
Lynne Hoffman
You go in there, you have a problem, and you're looking for which one is going to. Of help you get through that moment. Yes, but that was just a comment. Your new album, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is more about what you had just spoken about. Hope and light. Can you. Can you tell us a little bit more what we're going to find on that new album?
- [44:11]
Matt Gervais
We've been going through this period of not knowing who you are, not, Not. Not necessarily being satisfied with where we are, you know, not. Not necessarily apprec. The things that are beautiful that are already there. And the idea is that, you know, we're stepping forward into something new that feels that's always been there, but we're only now opening up the aperture, opening up our ability to. To see it and to take it in for the. You know, again, as if it was, you know, for the first time. And so it's kind of like those moments in life where you've. You. Whether you met two or not, You. You've kind of been having sort of some sort of long, dark night of the soul, which. I've always loved that phrase, and I feel like it's very apt for songwriters and myself. Like, you go through these periods of despair and depression and. And they seem like they're going to last forever. And all of a sudden, whatever the lessons that were in that period of time, they congeal in your brain. You somehow you've translated them into the thing or into the lesson that you needed to learn at that point in your life. And all of a sudden it's like, okay, I have this new. I get to, you know, I get to take a walk down the street, and all of a sudden, it just feels different again. I can. I'm taking notice of the color of the moss on the branches. You know, I'm starting to see the things that were always there, but for a while, you were shut off, too. And so there's. There's sort of. There's hope in that. And, you know, another line in the song is, time was made for running out. Don't know why it took us so long. You know, the sun was made for coming out, even though the night is long. So it's kind of just giving you again the reassurance that, you know, you've been through this before, it's going to happen again. But the sun always rises at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day after a long night.
- [46:26]
Lynne Hoffman
Well, it depends on where you are.
- [46:30]
Matt Gervais
The wrong analogy to use at that moment.
- [46:32]
Lynne Hoffman
It sounds like to looking, what you're saying is, you know, finding those silver linings when things seem really the darkest, and then when you realize what they are, it's time to celebrate that and be okay, which is amazing. And it's almost as if you too, were. Or your band collective was picked to do this because you sound like musical therapists, but you're giving of yourself and your skills and talents to those that need it desperately. And it's interesting to hear from your side how much you go through this, too. And I think that's so important.
- [47:13]
Matt Gervais
Thank you. Thank you.
- [47:15]
Lynne Hoffman
I am really excited to hear about the Rivers and. Is it the Rivers and Road Foundation?
- [47:21]
Charity Rose Thielen
The Rivers. Rivers and Roads Foundation.
- [47:25]
Lynne Hoffman
Tell us about that.
- [47:27]
Charity Rose Thielen
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, so the Rivers and Roads foundation, really, the heart mission of it is to kind of allow greater access to music education for children in the Seattle area and greater community, as well as mental health support and access to services for musicians. So a lot of Kind of. It was a very natural extension for the band and how, really understanding how we can support the community that supported our band in the early days and the foundation leading to where we are and again, going back to understanding the power of music as a necessary tool to have in society, young society especially, and, and also the having a compassionate understanding of the need for mental health support for artists and for crew, you know, who support the artists on. On the road and in venues and such.
- [48:47]
Matt Gervais
And we're lucky that we have a bunch of really amazing pre existing nonprofits in Seattle that we kind of allocate.
- [48:54]
Charity Rose Thielen
Partner with the Seattle Foundation.
- [48:56]
Matt Gervais
Oh, yeah, yeah. So we've been able to like, over the, you know, each year designated different recipient of the funds that we've been able to raise and so. Right. And so there's an infrastructure, you know, because our own infrastructure is more just a fundraiser essentially. And then we were able to give that to different organizations that can then translate that into direct, you know, person to person benefit, you know, in different communities within Seattle.
- [49:23]
Lynne Hoffman
So that's great. You guys just keep doing what you're doing. I'm so impressed and you're just so lovely and it was so wonderful to meet you and, and Maddie and Charity. Please come back and see us again and share more great stories from your career. I. I suspect you have many, many, many more years of performing and giving back and I'm just blessed to know you and to meet you.
- [49:49]
Matt Gervais
Likewise. Thank you so, so much.
- [49:51]
Charity Rose Thielen
I'm grateful. Thank you for, for having this type of podcast that really is not, you know, as you were saying earlier, not the gossip fluff train of sorts. It's, you know, really getting to the heart of what makes us human, you know, and what connects us. And so, so thank you for giving us a platform and for your time too, sharing it with us.
- [50:14]
Matt Gervais
It's really true. It's. It's like what music does, you know, we could have. We could talk to you all day about this. You know what I mean?
- [50:20]
Charity Rose Thielen
And so that's really as long school. We've got a few more hours.
- [50:25]
Lynne Hoffman
So much more to talk. All right, well, listen, part two down the road, go out, you know, kick some ass, take some names and just keep doing what you're doing. Keep rocking the free world. And I'm sure that we will cross paths again and we'll have part deux.
- [50:43]
Matt Gervais
Absolutely. Yes, please. We'd love to.
- [50:45]
Lynne Hoffman
All right. Thank you so much.
- [50:46]
Charity Rose Thielen
Thank you.
- [50:47]
Matt Gervais
Yeah.
- [50:47]
Charity Rose Thielen
Thank you.
- [50:52]
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