← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Musician and Author Bill Janovitz-"The Cars: Let the Stories Be Told"
00:36:04
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- [00:01]
Bill Janovitz
Taking a walk. Rick was really. Rick was getting back into guitar after having done it as a kid, but really more as a vehicle for his writing. He saw himself as a writer and an artist and he was trying on different sort of influences. He was influenced by everything from sort of the beatniks, pre Beatles, very Buddy Holly, which is very evident in the Cars.
- [00:23]
Buzz Knight
Picture this. It's 1978. You're driving down the road, the radio's on. Suddenly the sound you hear, part rock, part pop, part something from the future. You can't quite name it. It's the Cars. That's right, the Cars. A mixture of rock and new wave. It's here. The Cars didn't just bridge the gap between the classic rock of the 70s and the synth driven sound of the 80s. They basically built that bridge. And boy were they a mainstay in the Boston area and nationally and globally. I'm Buzz Knight, the host of the Taking a Walk podcast and we welcome back Bill Janovitz. Now you from his band Buffalo Tom for sure, but Bill's just written a book called the Cars. Let the stories be told. And after these words we're going to talk to Bill next. This is an iHeart podcast. This episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. The discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. Every music lover has that moment you hear or read something that stops you in your tracks. A forgotten B side, an offhand comment in an interview, a connection. Nobody else noticed that. Curiosity. That's where Claude comes in. Claude is AI for people who don't stop at the surface. It helps you explore the real stories behind the music. Not with quick answers, but by working through the discovery with you, matching your level of curiosity. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Buzz Lexis believes in the importance of standards. One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexis, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings. Exhilaration, joy that sens your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing Experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. New Film Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere don't miss the movie critics are raving as the real deal, an intelligent, deliberate paced journey into the soul of an artist. Scott Cooper, director of the Academy Award winning movie Crazy Heart, brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon. Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere Only in theaters October 24th. Get your tickets now.
- [03:45]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw Sugar, Milk Chocolate, Caramel, Jack O' Lanterns, Brock's Candy, Corn Charms, Mini Pops and more. Offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [04:15]
Buzz Knight
On Taking a Walk.
- [04:19]
Bill Janovitz
Taking a Walk.
- [04:20]
Buzz Knight
A returning guest on the Taking a Walk podcast. Hello, Bill Janovic.
- [04:26]
Bill Janovitz
Hello, Buzz Knight.
- [04:27]
Buzz Knight
Nice to see you again. Nice to be with you.
- [04:30]
Bill Janovitz
You as well. Thanks for having me.
- [04:32]
Buzz Knight
We're going to talk about the new book the Cars Let the Stories be Told. But since you were last on, we started asking this question, Bill, so I'm not going to let you get off the hook on the question. I couldn't do that. Right. The question is, if you could take a walk with someone, living or dead, who would you take a walk with and where would you take that walk with them? Whoa.
- [04:56]
Bill Janovitz
I hadn't been aware of this question. Living or dead. The first person that comes to mind for me is Keith Richards. I'm sure there are better choices, but first of all, let's get the guy some exercise. He seems to be doing fine without it or whatever exercise he's doing. But I would love to just talk music. Now, where would we do that? How about he guides me around where his compound is or wherever. Wherever he goes for vacation in Jamaica or something like that.
- [05:34]
Buzz Knight
I think we'd take it anywhere with Keith, wouldn't we?
- [05:37]
Bill Janovitz
I think we would, yeah.
- [05:38]
Buzz Knight
Yeah. I like the idea of being in a compound with anybody, though. Don't you?
- [05:43]
Bill Janovitz
I don't know. Compounds. It depends how. Like I like a nice long walk, I guess if it's a gigantic compound and you've got plenty of space to run. But with any kind of conversation, I'd want it to be somewhere, you know, fairly private so you're not getting interrupted in the streets of New York going, or something like that right now.
- [06:07]
Buzz Knight
Have you encountered Keith in your career?
- [06:09]
Bill Janovitz
Yeah, I met Keith once, so I wrote two Stones books. And in between those two books, right as the first one was going. I'm sorry, right as the second one was getting. Getting started. It wasn't even really getting started, let's say the publishing deal is just sort of coming into place. I just happened to be at this, this ceremony at the JFK Museum here in Boston for Penn New England had, I think, three of these ceremonies where they gave a. Gave away an award of lyrics of literary excellence. And the first one was to Chuck Berry and Keith. I'm sorry, Chuck Berry and Leonard Cohen. And I have these photos that are just insane from the green room of me meeting Chuck Berry, of, of Leonard Cohen sitting right in front of me, of Salman Rushdie, of Paul Simon, of, you know, of course, the Wooba Goo's there, Peter Wolf. But before the ceremony, I. I was just at against a wall, trying not to, you know, bump into anybody or hurt anybody or spill anything because I'm a klutz. I just wanted to take it all in and be the fly literally on the wall. And right next to me was a little sort of side table kind of thing up against the wall with a lamp. And who, who should come and stand on the other side of it but Keith Richards? And he was by himself at that moment. So I had a pep talk to myself for about five seconds and said, all right, you got to go talk to Keith Richards. This is like my. One of my, you know. You know, he's the guy I picked right off the top of my head when you asked me that question. So I turned to him and I said, and I didn't want to get into my books or anything, you know, because I didn't want to scare him off, but I wanted to start a conversation or just say hello. And I said, keith, I just wanted to say hello to you. I, you know, obviously get this all the time. I'm just very honored to meet you. And I said, I said, oh, man, it's all right. So, you know, what do you say to Keith Richards? And he says, well, I feel the same way about Chuck Berry, mate, you know, he's, he's, he's just one of my, he's my hero. So I had to be here for him and I said, yeah, and what a great event for him to get an award for his lyrics, you know. And he said, oh, absolutely, man. He goes, he's written some of the greatest lyrics of all time. And he said, hurry home drops in her eyes, man. He's like, oh, you know. And he starts counting his chest. And I'm sitting there going, what an amazing guy to take this nervous, awkward guy that I am and just like sort of jiu jitsu it into this beautiful conversation. And I'm sitting here having a conversation about rock and roll lyrics with Keith Richards. And my mind is just sort of like, I'm okay. So that was kind of the extent of it.
- [08:59]
Buzz Knight
Wow, thanks for sharing that. Other than maybe you smoking another three packs of cigarettes a day, you sounded pretty much like them. That's good.
- [09:11]
Bill Janovitz
That's good.
- [09:13]
Buzz Knight
So congrats on the cars. Let the stories be told. How did you first intersect with the cars? At least before, you know, we talk about the book, specifically what, you know, you obviously did intersect with them.
- [09:27]
Bill Janovitz
Yeah, I, I, when I was 12 years old is when I first heard that record. It came out in 78, as you know. And I talk about it in the prologue of this book where I'm just sitting in my friend's room. And I was the old oldest of five and he had an older brother. I didn't have any older siblings to bring me these records. And his brother was the. Probably is still the coolest person I know. Drove an orange Camaro, came back from college often bearing cool records. And he brought back this record, you know, with Natalie Mova on the COVID as we got to know later. This model at the steering wheel and the lights are going and it's just as the cars and it's like, what is this? You know, and you put down that we're on the shag carpeted shag carpet of a wood panel bedroom in the 70s, you know, and we drop the needle and we're listening to Let the Good Times Roll. And I talk about, wow, what a revelation this is. It's like, I mean, final. I found, like, this is one of my bands. This is like, for me, this is like not me going to catch up with the Stones or the Beatles or Neil Young or whatever it may be. This is something brand new and it sounds familiar, but it also sounds extremely new and novel. So that was the first time I had Heard them and I was just. I just started the journey. My brother, my friends, and I just got right into it with, with the cars. The first time I actually encountered them in person, you know, living around. I just live a town away from, From, From, From. From Greg, as I think you do as well. And we. I've seen him. I first actually met him very briefly at the Hot Stove Cool Music Music benefit, which I've been part of for the better part of 20 something years. And I doubt he remembered me. It was just, you know, the backstage area of all these other people going, Going around, just me saying hello. But in 2018, I was fortunate enough to play music at another benefit out in Los Angeles. I was an invited, honored guest to be there as part of this Wild Honey Research, Autism Research benefit. And, you know, in nla, it's like, it's an embarrassment of riches of who comes along to play for these things. I mean, for. When they did a tribute to the Beach Boys, they had Brian Wilson himself show up, Alex Chilton, all these. I mean, it's just crazy. So when I. When I played, I played this. It was a Kinks theme where you played Stop youp Sobbing and I san. And I had Elliot Easton with me playing guitar and Dennis Dykin of the Smithereens and Brian Wilson's band making the orchestra. It's crazy. It's just crazy. So for rehearsals, I met Elliot the night before, two nights before, whatever it may be. And he's just a warm Elliot Easton, a warm and open and very conversational person. Kind of like my encounter with Keith Richards, except this time I was going to be playing music with this person. And again, my mind is blown. I mean, here are these people off my record collection and I'm talking to them, and they were such a big part of my life. And anyway, long story short, Elliot and I just struck up a little correspondence talking. I mean, he already had one of my Stones books, I think, and I sent him more and we talked back and forth and I said, hey, you know, I wrote an article about this experience. And I talk about how great and underappreciated Elliot Easton is as a guitar player. And I said, what about doing a Cars book? It's kind of at the suggestion of a friend of mine. I said, that's a great idea. And Elliot thought it was a great idea, too, except that Rick Ocasek was still around and he was very much calling the shots still for the band. And it didn't seem to take root at that point. So in the Meantime, I did this Leon Russell biography and that seemed to get some great traction and get the attention of the Cards guys as well. And then sadly, RICOC has passed and I struck up a relationship with these three guys and said, let's do a Cars book. And they were all on board with it.
- [13:27]
Buzz Knight
And do you remember the first time you saw them play live?
- [13:30]
Bill Janovitz
I never saw the Cars live. I mean, it's. It's one of my regrets. I mean, you know, a lot of people that I did talk to, I mean, I've seen obviously many clips and. And I've got the videos, the home videos and things. But no, I never got to see them live. Why is that? Well, I was fairly young when they were going. I wasn't able to really go to rock and roll concerts for a few years until after that. And then by that time I was moving to Massachusetts. I think they broke up when I was, you know, soon after. I was like in my freshman year of college, so I never really got the chance. I have one of my band, my own bandmates, Tom McGinnis, got to see them at the what is now the Lang Center. But what was the what? The Boston Music hall back then, the same weekend that the Pope was in town. Everybody talks about that one. You know, there's differing views on how the Cars were alive. By all accounts, you know, audio wise, they were amazing. A lot of people were sort of let down by how their visual presentation maybe.
- [14:30]
Buzz Knight
How about you saw them at the Yale bowl, believe it or not, which was not a fitting place to see them. I thought. I didn't think it in the moment. And then after the fact, I'm like that. I wish I saw them at, you know, the Wang or something like that.
- [14:45]
Bill Janovitz
Because that was that Cheap Trick, I believe, and a bunch of other bands at the Yellow Ball.
- [14:49]
Buzz Knight
Right, yeah. So that one, it was a great experience, but it sort of didn't showcase them, I think, like they should have been showcased because obviously the catalog of music speaks for itself. Right? I mean.
- [15:03]
Bill Janovitz
Right, right.
- [15:04]
Buzz Knight
Just. Just incredible. So walk us through the. The ricoc Benjamin Orr partnership and how it evolved over time with the Cars.
- [15:16]
Bill Janovitz
Yeah, I mean, they met in Ohio. Ben was raised outside of Cleveland in Agora Heights and I think, anyway, suburb of Cleveland. And he was a teenage star in a band called the Grasshoppers on a local and then syndicated show called Upbeat. It had two different names, but Upbeat was one of them. Sort of a. Sort of a shindig type show. They were. He was sort of in a house band that they had various house bands that came and went. But he was in the Grasshoppers. They were sort of, like I said, teen local teen stars. Rick's family. Rick was raised in Baltimore until he was about high school. Somewhere in, you know, later high school year 16 or so, his father got relocated to. I think he was working for NASA, a NASA lab in. Outside of Cleveland. So he. He started college and. And. And bumped around Ohio a little bit, Bowling Green, and then ended up in Columbus. And that's where they met. And they. It was sort of like at this point Rick was really. Rick was getting back into guitar after having done it as a. As a kid, but really more as a. As a vehicle for his writing. He saw himself as a writer and an artist and he was trying on different sort of influences. He was influenced by everything from sort of the beatniks, pre Beatles, very Buddy Holly, which is very evident in the Cars, the Beatles, of course, but then very much Bob Dylan was revolutionary for him as it was for so many other writers. And then the Velvet Underground and onward. But he was still, you know, when he was writing, he was writing sort of almost pastoral, you know, Crosby, Stills and Nashi type stuff and some psychedelia, you know. So they had these different bands. And when he met. When he met Ben, Ben joined this. They joined forces. They joined this band. ID Nirvana, I think is the first band. I may be mistaken there, but they had so many different little iterations and. But they. He recognized in Ben this. He remembered having, I think he learned and then put it together that he had seen Ben on TV as when Ben was, you know, 16 or so and just being really impressed by that. And. And Ben was just a naturally charismatic, quiet, cool, natural singer, could play any instrument. And it was just sort of like a match made in heaven for Rick, who was a bit more angular and tall and gawky and a little awkward and edgy and he was this smooth guy. And they were sort of. They. I think they recognized this in each other, this yin and yang. Ben wasn't really writing anything. Rick was. So one thing led to another. They eventually tried on, you know, duos, trios, blah, blah, blah. They ended up in. In. In coming to. Coming to Cambridge, Boston and forming a trio called Milkwood with Jim Goodkind. And they put out one record. And it's very kind of what I was saying. More singer songwriter 1971ish. You know, it wasn't really rock and roll. It was kind of a weak record that Rick forever tried to distance himself and then there were other bands. I don't know how long you want me to go on, but I think there were different iterations that led up there's like two other three other iterations that led up to the cars of 1977. We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [18:53]
Buzz Knight
This episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Travel is one of the most precious things in my life, and the memories of each of the experiences live on forever. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows me to travel with ease with a $300 travel credit and access to a curated collection of hotels through the edit. So no matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply Every music story has layers most people never discover. The session musician who created that signature lick, the studio accident that became a classic sound. The cultural moment that made a song possible. That's when you need Claude AI built for minds that can't stop at the first answer. Comb through interviews, biographies, recording session notes. Claude analyzes up to 200 pages instantly and can reveal connections across decades of music history. Need to verify claims about music legends? Claude searches the web and cross references sources with citations you can check. But here's what's different. Claude doesn't just give you quick facts. It works through the problem with you, step by step. It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the culture, technology, and human stories behind the sounds. Whether you're researching your favorite artist, exploring genre evolution, or discovering untold music history, Claude matches your curiosity about what really happened. See why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner and try for free at Claude AI Buzz Lexis believes in the importance of standards. One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexus, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs. They're feelings. Exhilaration, joy. That sens your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. New Film Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere. Don't miss the movie critics are raving is the real deal, an intelligent, deliberate paced journey into the soul of an artist. Scott Cooper, director of the Academy Award winning movie Crazy Heart, brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon. Springsteen Deliver Me from Nowhere, Only in theaters October 24th. Get your tickets now.
- [22:05]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats now through October 7th. You can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw Sugar, Milk Chocolate, Caramel, Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy, Corn Charms, Mini Pops and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [22:38]
Bill Janovitz
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [22:42]
Buzz Knight
It's interesting thinking about the Boston Cambridge scene and the influence certainly that, that you know, had to have had on the band and their evolution and their acceptance over time, but also the fact of the rich, you know, radio landscape as well that was going on here in, in town and in the Boston area, you know, specifically the WBCN side of things. But as I was hearing you talk about that history and I was wondering, okay, could they have catapulted to success if they were in fill in the blank market A or B? Even if you mention Ohio, the answer is yes, because Ohio was rich in experimental sounds as well, you know, just like Boston and Cambridge was. And the radio side of things was also rich there as well. So I think there's many markets that would have, you know, helped fuel their success. Not only Boston. Would you agree with that long winded statement?
- [23:48]
Bill Janovitz
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough exercise to go through and I'm not sure if it really brings us much. I mean, I will say that Boston was essential to them because that's where, you know, so there's no native boss. The only native Massachusetts person in the band is David Robinson, who had come from Modern Lovers and then was in a garage punk band, proto punk band called dmz with the they were basically the band that led to being the Liars, who were a legendary garage rock band, retro sort of thing. But the other guys, Greg Hawks and Elliot Easton, had come to Boston to go to Berklee College of Music. And like many who had come to Berkeley, they dropped out at a certain Point. And they were kicking around in different bands themselves. So I go into all of this lineage. So there was that. Then there was also, by the time the Cars started, because they were really through these other bands, it was very difficult to get a gig playing original music. They had to sneak in original songs when they were in this band called Richard and the Rabbits and then Cap and Swing, they had to smuggle in these new songs, these original songs. I should say so. But by the time the Cars got going, let's say what 76 is when maybe the Rat started. Jim Harrell's here, somewhere in there. And they were the Rat and maybe one or two other clubs in Boffin were supportive of original bands. And it became a bit of a circuit with cbgb. So they would send each other. Hayley Crystal would send up bands to Jim and Jim would send. I talked about this with Oedipus, a big radio figure that, you know, here and part of bcn. And so all of those things, plus the built in gigantic college town, despite Spinal Tap's statement to the contrary, it was a big and is and remains a big college town. And the drinking age was not yet 21 here. So all of those things were very much encouraging. And not to mention what you already mentioned, which is Max Ansertore at wbcn, Oedipus, before he got to bcn, he was at what is now WMBR at mit. So they had this. This built in support. They were playing their demos. I mean, Maxan started playing just what I needed in demo form on bcn. And that really, all of a sudden they had like not just one show at the Rap, but they have two shows a night, which was sort of unheard of, like two separate doors entrances. So they really got traction in Boston. It's hard to say. I don't know if all of those things could have happened in Ohio. I think they felt like they had to leave Ohio, Columbus, Cleveland, whatever it may be. Louisiana was more of a, you know, sort of different thing at that point. In fact, David and I'm giving you a long, very even more long winded response. But David had gone out to LA and was recruited to play in this band called the Pop, which was a power pop band. And LA was kind of dead at that time. You know, these A and R scenes sort of move on to different places. And this kind of went on at least through the grunge years that I. That I was a little bit part of as well.
- [27:11]
Buzz Knight
Roy Thomas Baker produced the debut album. What did his involvement bring to the sound.
- [27:19]
Bill Janovitz
Oh, he, he, he. Well, to say he was the sound would be overstating it because they had the songs, they had the arrangements. He didn't fuss with those at all. He was coming off of his Queen years, monumental success, which Maxan Sartori, by the way, also had a big role in helping promote and break in America as just among a few artists, including Aerosmith. She was very instrumental in breaking these artists. But so Roy Thomas Baker had produced those Queen records and they were gigantic sounding. And he was getting, he thought, well, he'd sort of taken that as maybe as far as could, could go or, or should go. And he was getting, he, he was getting grief from some of the punk rock bands, including the Sex Pistols themselves, who said, oh, you guys are, oh, you're, you know, a bunch of blah, blah, blah, and you're, this is all bloated and yada, yada, yada. And he said, well, maybe they have a point. Maybe there's a part where I should start to feel it back. And he found. He comes to this gig in Boston and he's one of maybe a dozen people at this gymnasium somewhere lost to history, some high school or college gymnasium. And it's a middle of a blizzard and Fred Lewis, the car's manager, drives him down there on a vw. He loves them, he wants to sign them. Within a year their record is out. They go to London and Roy Thomas Baker took them and said, instead of having these multi layers to everything, let's just have it on. Let's start with the first song, Good Times Roll. It's this sparse kind of sleek sounding song. And then all of a sudden the big. The chorus comes in with these 40 times vocals shouting Good Times Roll, you know, in harmony and unison and it just explodes out of the speakers. And, and Roy had, had, had come up as an engineer, so he really knew how to get the best out of this peak. Analog equipment, tape, microphones, tube equipment, and just sort of peek it to where it was just a little distorted, really saturate the tape and get this, what he called perceived loudness. So when it came on the radio, it just sounded punchy and big.
- [29:37]
Buzz Knight
It sounded unlike anything we had heard. And it did fit so beautifully around everything that was being played at that time as well. So there was nothing that was, you know, out of sync with the times. It was a, a breath of fresh air. It still is a breath of fresh air really, when I think about the music. How did the massive success of the first album affect the band's Dynamics.
- [30:05]
Bill Janovitz
I think it was. It solidified the first record. They felt like a real esprit de corps. They. They. They had this massive success. It just, you know, there were. There were some. There was some downside to it. For example, Elliot was all of 21, maybe at the time. He was the youngest. Rick was nine years older, though nobody knew that, including the band. He kept his age, as did Ben. They kept it vague at best. But, you know, here's a guy, here's a duo. Ben and. Ben and Rick, that had starved. They were on the dole, basically. Welfare. They were. They were stealing things to just try to survive. They were working, you know, periodically at retail just to kind of scrounge together some. Some food, money, blah, blah, blah. And now they finally hit it and it just. It just verified it. It validated everything for. For them, for Rick. And, you know, I think, like I said, these guys were at different points in their lives. I think Greg was. Had just gotten married to Elaine and, you know, it was. It's just like they had. They were a bit journeyman. They were a bit of a journeyman group of guys that had sort of been around a bit. So here they were, they finally made it. And it didn't happen immediately, but it happened rather quickly. Over the course of that summer, that record spread. And you could see it climbing up the charts. And now they were no longer opening for sticks, for example. They were headlining arenas. So they went in and made that second record. And to me, and to most listeners, I think it was like 1A and 1B. It's like, I don't know which. Choose your favorite. They're both. It's almost like a continuation of the first record. It's just fantastic group of songs. That sounds amazing.
- [32:01]
Buzz Knight
MTV was just launching and, you know, the car's peak was happening. And how did the visual esthetic of the band and the videos contribute to the success?
- [32:14]
Bill Janovitz
Well, David Robinson, the drummer who had come up, as I said, from the Modern Lovers and. And from dmc, he had a real eye and he's very, very. He remains very visually oriented and he's very into design and aesthetics. And he kind of provided the band with their look, which at that time was black and white with a little bit of red mixed in, you know, and it kind of became the template of new wave bands. I mean, look at the Pretenders. Look at the new. You know, look at the Romantics or whatever it might be at that time, things that came out, it was like the knack. Eventually they were taking kind of A bit of what David provided for the Cars. The Cars individually had their own taste, of course, but David was sort of the guide in force. And they were on the cutting edge of video. I mean, the very cutting edge of music video was really Devo in this era. I mean, music videos, films, promo clips, kind of go back at least to the 60s with Motown going through car factories and doing things like that, that. But now, this is before NTV actually launched. It was their third record, the Cars, Panorama, where they hired Gerald Casale from Devo, who had been doing Devo's videos. I mean, Devo was almost an art band to begin with, a film band to begin with. They saw it as a whole, as the recent documentary on, I believe, Netflix shows that just came out in the last few weeks. So they hired Jerry to do. To do their. To do two videos on that record, Panorama itself and Touch and Go. And like I said, this was before MTV was even around. So MTV didn't even really come around until between that and their fourth record, which was Shake It Up. And I remember seeing the video for Shake it up on mtv, and I didn't even have mtv. I was a friend's Hassan, and it's got that amazing guitar solo from Elliot. One of my favorite guitar solos, if not my favorite guitar solo of all time. But they were, you know, and I talked to Casalia about them and video in general, and he's like, you know, a lot of rock bands didn't want to do videos at all, but some saw it as a way to sort of, like, give to these TV shows as a, you know, the Merv Griffin show or something, where they didn't want to go and be on, you know, or like. So there were some shows that would use them, but by the time MTV came around, it was like MTV was starved for this kind of stuff. So they broke a lot of acts that were sort of, maybe even mediocre acts because they had music videos and they played them five, six, seven times a day. And the Cars are real beneficiaries of that, as were Devo. But like a lot of bands, they were reluctant to sort of. Rick, we talked about this with the guys. Rick himself was reluctant and ambivalent and suspicious of video because, like, a lot of writers, you come up with imagery, and you want the artist. I'm sorry, you want the listener or the reader to. To come up with their own imagery. You don't want to sort of assign it to them and have them have listeners have to overcome their. Their first exposure being A music video, right? We all remember this from, from this era, those of us that lived through this. But at the end of the day, the Cars really benefited from it. Who knows how long their career would have lasted without it. But they became big time MTV presence, if not outright stars. They won the first video music award for, you Might Think, which was a. You know, and this was, by the way, this video cost, I think, over $400,000 at that time, which is incredible, you know, 1983, 1984, to spend this much money ever on a video. But it really kind of changed budgets for bands and record labels too, because I. By the time my band came around, I remember we were spending more on videos than we were on the. On the recordings themselves.
- [36:16]
Buzz Knight
What surprised you the most while researching the book?
- [36:20]
Bill Janovitz
Some of the stuff was. I guess I didn't. I can't say that, you know, Rick's secret lives and compartmentalization. I can't. I can't say that I was that surprised by that because he seemed like a real enigma anyway, and he fostered that. But the darkness of what Ben, or went through as. As after the Cars that say, or as the Cars were starting to wind down, that. That kind of surprised me because he came across as this easygoing guy for whom everything came natural and he should have been a giant solo star himself. So to learn that was kind of, you know, tragic and sad now beyond sad, really disheartening and, you know, it's part of the story. I had to tell it, so that was a bit surprising, I suppose.
- [37:15]
Buzz Knight
And were there any myths about the band that you feel like you were able to debunk?
- [37:21]
Bill Janovitz
Yeah, I'm sure there are. I'll have to come back to that when I think. But I mean, you know, I think what's surprising to a lot of people who don't know the Cars really well might have been more casual things. Well, first of all, there are two. That there were even two vocalists, you know, two lead vocalists. It's like John and Paul and the Beatles to some people. When they finally learn, oh, wait, Paul is singing that one, and you start to discern the difference, which is funny because once you hear it, you can't unhear it, as we say. But, you know, people's people in bands tend to sort of become the band and their voices start to take on characteristics of the other. So there's that. And I guess one of the myths. Well, I say, I don't know if it's a myth, but I think a lot of people assume that Ben wrote the songs that he sang. But you know, like the who know, it's one guy wrote all the songs basically. There were some co writes with Greg Hawks, but for the most part all of those songs were. Were Rick or Cassock.
- [38:24]
Buzz Knight
In closing, you preside over your own band and obviously in doing the work, researching about the Cars, you delve deep enough into the fragility of bands, you know, how bands are just. There's just a fragile nature there. Talk about how you sort of view that now as you've completed this book and you're out, you know, doing publicity for it.
- [38:50]
Bill Janovitz
Yeah, I mean Elliot gave me, I think, I think it was for me or at least it gave a quote that that's in the book that says, you know, bands are such a knucklehead proposition. Anyway, reflecting on the end of the band and I understand completely what he means, it's something that feels very natural. When you're 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old and you're putting together a band. It's almost like putting together a gang or putting together a team. But to be grown adults doing it as a sustained proposition, as you say, it's so fraught. You're dealing with people in art as a collaboration and artists themselves tend to be fragile and volatile. And when you put multiples of them together in a collaborative effort, whether or not there's a leader or not, or if it's a democracy, which is rare or not, you inevitably have to. You have to change out parts. Right. It seems inevitable, but that's not the case. Certainly with my band, which is beautiful, we've had the same three, but for a successful band like the Cars, it was the same five guys over, let's say five or six, depending on what you want to call it, six records before they broke up. So that's a rarity. And it was a balance that they were able to maintain until the end. And then inevitably it starts to fall down. But what a, what an amazing collaborative effort for those, for those years from 1978 to, let's say 1986 and before that for Ben. You know, Ben and Rick predated that by 10 years. So it's a beautiful thing to be able to keep that together.
- [40:55]
Buzz Knight
What's going on with Buffalo Tom these days?
- [40:58]
Bill Janovitz
Not much. I mean, we're just a part time, fun for fun outfit now. I mean, we were supposed to play up in Salisbury, Massachusetts, but the weather had other ideas. That was for wxrv. I'm leaving for Spain in a few days. We're playing a festival out there in Valencia, which is so it's just like, you know, if we can, if we can get on a plane and go play a festival in Valencia in September and come home without losing money. It's all, it's all, it's all gravy at this point. You know, we formed in 86 as the cards were breaking up, I suppose. So it's really, it's. I feel very fortunate to be able to still do it.
- [41:39]
Buzz Knight
I feel fortunate talking to you, Bill, once again.
- [41:42]
Bill Janovitz
Oh, thanks so much, Buzz.
- [41:43]
Buzz Knight
Congrats on Let the Stories Be Told. A great band, part of music history without a question, and you always just delve deep into it and produce great work. So thank you for everything.
- [41:55]
Bill Janovitz
I appreciate you having me. Buzz thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the I Heart Rate Radio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. Foreign.
- [42:48]
Buzz Knight
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- [44:52]
Ryan Seacrest
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Bill Janovitz
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