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Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Narada Michael Walden: One of the Most Influential Figures in Music History
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- [00:00]
Narada Michael Walden
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
Every music lover has that moment you hear or read something that stops you in your tracks. A forgotten B side, an offhand comment in an interview. A connection. Nobody else noticed that. Curiosity. That's where Claude comes in. Clod is AI for people who don't stop at the surface. It helps you explore the real stories behind the music, not with quick answers, but by working through the discovery with you. Make matching your level of curiosity. Try Claude for free @Claude AI buzz this episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I get eight times points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA member, FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. Lexus believes in the importance of standards One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexus, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings. Exhilaration. Joy. That sense your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. New Film Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere don't miss the movie. Critics are raving as the real deal. An intelligent, deliberate paced journey into the soul of an artist. Scott Cooper, director of the Academy Award winning movie Crazy Hard, brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon. Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere Only in theaters October 24th. Get your tickets now.
- [02:33]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway Cough and cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief Tablets or Liquid Gels, Halls, Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night so you and your family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [03:03]
Narada Michael Walden
Taking a Walk.
- [03:05]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
This is such an honor.
- [03:07]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I'm here speaking on Taking a Walk with Narda Michael Walden. Hello, sir.
- [03:13]
Narada Michael Walden
Hey. How are you?
- [03:15]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I'm fantastic. I'm fantastic. Welcome to Taking a Walk. This is what we call the podcast now. Since we're not taking a walk literally, but we are walking through music history with you, I do want to ask you, if you could take a walk with somebody, living or deceased, who would you take a walk with and where would you take that walk with them?
- [03:39]
Narada Michael Walden
I don't know. For some reason, Ali came to me. Muhammad Ali came to me. And being in the woods, like mere woods, for some reason, he came to me. But then. Then came a lot. Then came Prince, then came Guru, then came Mahvishnu, all of Mordechan. Then came Carl's. They all wanted. Yeah. Mother Mary came. She wanted to go in the Fender woods and talk.
- [03:57]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yes.
- [03:57]
Narada Michael Walden
Okay. You know, I'm like, who didn't ride the bus? You wouldn't take the back seat in the bus once in front.
- [04:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
- [04:05]
Narada Michael Walden
She want to go in the woods and talk.
- [04:07]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, my God.
- [04:08]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah, man. It's all. It's all good. They all want to come. We all want to have a party together.
- [04:12]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They're all invited. Everyone is invited.
- [04:15]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah.
- [04:16]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Before we dig here further, including still yours for the summer and just everything and your wonderful career, though, it does hit me, we also produce this other podcast. It's hosted by my friend Lynn Hoffman. It's called Music Save Me, and it's about the healing power of music and what it does for us and how important it is from musician standpoint, certainly. So I believe I know where you're going to go with this, but I do have to ask you, knowing your spirituality and your core beliefs, do you think music has healing power?
- [04:54]
Narada Michael Walden
Absolutely. Without question. Absolutely. More than we even recognize or realize. In fact, when I think of my childhood, it's the music that comes to me first. The songs. If I hear a song, then I can see what I. What I was doing and smell the air, the kind of car we drove, the conversations, the feelings, the excitement, the enthusiasms. Music is a. Is a key to unlock the whole universe. In fact, music is right next to God because, dig it, if God talks to us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music. So music is the highest form on the planet to reach each other. I can go with Jeff Beck when he was alive, from America to Japan to China to Russia, anywhere in the world. And that music communicates. Mavish. You can communicate, Carlos, communicate anywhere in the world. That's the beauty of music. You don't speak the language, you know, but the music of the higher language. So I, I'm a. I am here in, in honor of music. To keep the music going and keep my heart young and fresh like a little kid excited by the music.
- [06:17]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
And the euphoria that, that you bring to your. Your craft and to your life is so contagious. It's. It really connects us all at a time when so many things don't connect us. But it's the one thread. Certainly not only your beautiful work with it and all your collaborations, but that in general what music gives to us, it keeps us together.
- [06:44]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah. And please tell your friend I want to be on his show, if you'll have me. They speak about the spiritual aspects of music. And I got my name, Narada, behind him being the divine musician. When Guru gave me the name, he told me all the stories about Narada with his music came to the earth to inspire with loving God, more with divine message. So it's all, it's all beautiful.
- [07:07]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
So do you remember? I will. You are invited. So hereby, you are. You are hereby invited. But the first moment you recall in life being connected deeply with music, what was that?
- [07:19]
Narada Michael Walden
First moments. Oh, I. I loved like Frank Froggy went a court and he did live. When I was a little, little kid, little 2 year old. Those little nursery rhymes are so cool. My dad would buy them for me and it would be just so sweet on it, on the record player, you know, mambo music. Looking at the beautiful covers of the ladies on the covers of the mambo music. And hearing George sharing with Peggy Lee that album, the live album, Beauty and the. And the Beat it's called. I think those are early, early recollections. Then at my grandpa's house across the way, my mom's sisters, Vicki and Valerie, they would have Nina Simone live at Town Hall. Then I had to get out my, my, my pie tin and a pillow and play along just softly to try to imitate the, the, the drummer on those records, you know, Summertime, I love you, Porgy. Just that that whole album is so deep with Nina Simone live at Town hall. That, that really got me, you know. Then of course, not long after, we go on our little trips to Upper Michigan in our cottage. And they bring an album by Horace Silver called Six Pieces of Silver. And there'd be a piece on there called Senor Blues. And they would say the Drummer is only 18, named Lewis Hayes from Detroit. I said, oh, he's little, he's young. So that I have like memorized. You have to memorize all the pieces just so. That's early, early, early on all those things, man. Even, even Harry Belafonte. Take My Mother Home was a very scary piece. Very frightening. I got frightened as a kid then I remember good memories like when they. We first heard on the radio Twist and Shout by the Osby Brothers on the radio. You know, all that. All that rock and roll coming. Also Little Richie on 78s, you know, good golly Miss Molly at my grandma's house. That was electrifying. As a little kid hearing that then I loved the live album of Ray Charles. What I say, Frenzy, spirit, drama on tears and just so incredible that album. So I. And then fingertips came along and this wiped me out. All the live recordings, quite frankly, would. Would knock me out. The live recordings.
- [09:52]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Isn't that interesting thinking about that? Because then you would not only apply your craft in studios and you continue to brilliantly, but you applied your craft in the live performance area.
- [10:07]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah.
- [10:08]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Who taught you the incredible disciplines that take you to musical journeys and beauty to this day?
- [10:16]
Narada Michael Walden
My mom and dad were very disciplined. My mom was. Was raised by. Her father was a great janitor, custodian in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Cleaned all the car places, insurance, buildings, clean everything. Just made a sparkle. Be up at three in the morning to get out, you know, in the morning before places were open. So she had a great discipline of helping him, you know, and seeing how hard he worked. And then my own dad helped, helped him too. And also ran a job in a paper mill and then eventually became a draftsman for Consumers Power Company. He was like a sergeant. My dad's very serious. You know, whatever he said, we knew he meant it. So there was no bullshit in our family. And my dad wanted to be a drummer. He would carry in the snow his friend's drums, a guy named Bill Dowdy from the Three Sounds. So I also had to like listen to three Sounds. And you know, when I could play along with that record, then my dad would actually get me a new drum set to go on TD and look really professional because I could. I impressed my dad. I could play Bill Dowdy. So it's all in the music, it's all in the family. And in Michigan, where I'm from, I'm from Kalamazoo, you know, there's snow outside a lot. The weather's not so good to go Outside and play so you're locked inside a lot so you can play and practice and do things. And my mom never complained about drumming. The noise only thing she ever complained about. One time I was downstairs with my friend Steve Whiffin, working over the who's record of him. I can see for miles and miles and miles. And I wanted to get it right. And I was telling the boys how to play it right, and I went upstairs to get a glass of water. My mom said, why are you shouting at those boys downstairs so I'm not shouting. He said, yeah, you were being strong with him. I said, I didn't mean to. I just want to make sure we get the music right. So that's the only thing she ever complained to me about.
- [11:58]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
But other than that, she didn't care that the noise was there. And it was not noise. It was beauty to her.
- [12:05]
Narada Michael Walden
In fact, as we lived in Plano, Michigan, outside Kalamazoo, they would take me to different rehearsals. I would have on Saturday mornings with Joel Brooks, who play organ in his house. And then we'd have Joel Brooks had an uncle who owned the Ambassador Lounge, the cool lounge on the north side of Kalamazoo where all the people would go hang out and drink and whatever. And we can go in there early before the opening act and play in there. And my parents would, would help me do that. I want to be have a big gig on New Year's Eve at the Crazy Horse. And I go on the Crazy Horse and play. So, you know, and you see the big spinning light mirror ball, you know, and all the people. And so I was introduced to early playing live and my. And my parents loved it. They help me haul around my drums, which, you know, that's not easy, and haul on an organ. And even, even the Leslie.
- [12:55]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
No roadies with you then?
- [12:56]
Narada Michael Walden
No, that was my parents and his parents. So, you know, real, real dedication. That's what I'm trying to tell you. We don't think about it, but I'm telling you that in the 60s, 50s, 60s, you had to work to be in music.
- [13:11]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Who's the Mount Rushmore of drummers for you?
- [13:15]
Narada Michael Walden
All of them. I love peaches, bananas, oranges, strawberries, apples, grapes, grapefruits, all of them. You don't leave nobody out because they all contributed to, like the star behind me. Everybody brought their own flavor and you needed it. Mitchell brought that flavor for Hamix that no one else could have been better at him, at Jimmy than Mitch Mitchell. Billy Cobham brought that, that, that kick and that fire behind My Vishnu, that just scalded my soul to this very day when I saw him in Harbor, Connecticut. 72, whatever. It was just the most incredible fire I've ever seen in my life. So, you know, and then, of course, as a little kid, we have an album by Buddy Rich and Max Roach going back and forth. I was, like, intrigued to hear that, you know, Art Blakey on the the Sermon with Jimmy Smith playing a rock backbeat throughout the whole 22 minutes through that time. Ka Ching, Tanka, Chain Tang, you know, which you wouldn't think in jazz it'd be a blues medley, but that's what Al Blakey was playing. That was my favorite because it was just so. Just swinging strong like that. Of course, Take five comes out with Joe Morello. Oh, now that's something cool, you know. Or Cannibal Adley. Seven Miles High. Mercy, Mercy, Mercy. Sack of old this year. All that music that was coming out, you know, Michael Bloomfield with Buddy Miles. The electric Flat. So much everywhere you look. Even the Moby Grape. Cold, Cold blood with Stanley McGee, everywhere you look. Jack De Janette. First Light with Freddie Hubbard, you know, Wendy with Wes Montgomery. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. All of it. Percy Faith, all that stuff was so beautiful. So I learned from all of it. And there is a rush, Mom. If you have a rush, Marmore put them all up there.
- [15:03]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I love that. I have to ask you about one drummer, though, in particular who was part of the Wrecking Crew and Hal Blaine. The one I'm thinking of, though, is the one that had the. The tragic ending, Jim Gordon.
- [15:22]
Narada Michael Walden
I didn't know much about Jim Gordon. I knew. I'm familiar with some of the recordings, but he was taken out of the game so quickly with that accident he had, and taken into jail. Now. Give him the name. Me. One of the two of the pieces that he'd be honest. I could tell you.
- [15:35]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Well, writing credits on Layla, for sure.
- [15:40]
Narada Michael Walden
Is that him playing drums in Layla?
- [15:41]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yep.
- [15:42]
Narada Michael Walden
Okay, I got it.
- [15:43]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
And also, though, Good Vibrations, Beach Boys.
- [15:48]
Narada Michael Walden
Oh, that's him, too. Okay. I didn't know that. I thought that was Hal.
- [15:52]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I think Hal was associated with it as well, but he was. That whole Wrecking Crew was the unknown group of, you know, experts there that were kind of. No one knew them, but they were all producing this incredible work. But the tragedy of Jim Gordon was how the music industry turned its back on mental illness. That's the tragedy.
- [16:16]
Narada Michael Walden
I worked in a hospital of mental illness, and I saw how it goes down. You know, shock treatments and, you Know, we take the people and put them in the cages, you know, sometimes, you know, strap them down and my job as an orderly to go in and unstrap them, wash them, bathe them, clean them, shave them, put on their clothing, you know, and you have to restrain them against. Later, they'll hurt themselves. Mental illness is a very serious thing. Also, I would take care of the kids who would burn the house down. Runaways be my job. When I had a guy out of high school from freshman to ninth grade, freshman, take care of those kids, take them for a walk or keep them in the same room, play them. Oh, oh, Happy Day by Edwin. You know, Edwin.
- [16:53]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Happy day, Edwin. Star.
- [16:55]
Narada Michael Walden
Not star. No, no, the. The choir guy.
- [16:58]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Edwin Hawkins.
- [16:59]
Narada Michael Walden
Edwin Hawkins.
- [17:00]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Sorry. Yes.
- [17:01]
Narada Michael Walden
Or I'm leaving on a jet plane by.
- [17:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah. Peter, Paul, Mary.
- [17:06]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah, you know, things are kind of calm down, you know, but I would see the mental illness firsthand. And back then, there was a budget to actually take people in. Of course, Reagan came along and it kind of like dismantled some of that stuff. People end up on the streets. So you're saying Jim Gordon, a mentally ill problem. God knows, maybe there wasn't anything to catch him. There was no net to catch him, you know, and that's happening everywhere now, even full, full force. Anywhere you go, you're seeing holes on the street. Right down the street from where I'm living here, my studio off the hanging out. There's no place for them to go. There's no net. Other countries have a net. We don't. We don't believe in that over here island. And it's going to get worse because the rich get rich and the poor get poor. So the net, they, you know, they don't catch you. I'm so sorry about it. It's my. It's my. It hurts me.
- [17:58]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Well, and it goes back to the thread at the beginning of the interview, just on the fact of what music means and how it brings, you know, folks together and how it has, you know, healing, know processes as well.
- [18:10]
Narada Michael Walden
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [18:15]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
Every music story has layers most people never discover. The session musician who created that signature lick. The studio accident that became a classic sound. The cultural moment that made a song possible. That's when you need Claude. AI built for minds that can't stop at the first answer. Comb through interviews, biographies, recording session notes. Claude analyzes up to 200 pages instantly and can reveal connections across decades of music history. Need to verify claims about music legends. Claude searches the web and cross references sources with citations you can check. But here's what's different. Claude doesn't just give you quick facts, it works through the problem with you, step by step. It's built for people who know that understanding music means understanding the culture, technology, and human stories behind the sounds. Whether you're researching your favorite artist, exploring genre evolution, or discovering untold music history, Claude matches your curiosity about what really happened. See why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner and try for free @Claude AI buzz this episode of Taking a Walk is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Travel is one of the most precious things in my life, and the memories of each of the experiences live on forever. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows me to travel with ease with a $300 travel credit and access to a curated collection of hotels through the edit. So no matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. Lexus believes in the importance of standards One of my standards I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexus, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings. Exhilaration. Joy. That sense your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. New Film Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere don't miss the movie. Critics are raving as the real deal. An intelligent, deliberate paced journey into the soul of an artist. Scott Cooper, director of the Academy Award winning movie Crazy Heart, brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon. Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere Only in theaters October 24th. Get your tickets now.
- [21:27]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertson's and Safeway. Cough and cold season is coming, so make sure you're prepared and stock up on your family's favorite personal wellness products. Now through October 7th. Shop in store and online for savings on products like Mucinex, Kickstart Combo, Zyrtec Allergy Relief Tablets or Liquid Gels, Halls, Cough Drops and Mucinex Fast day and night so you and your Family are armed and ready for the season ahead. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [22:00]
Narada Michael Walden
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [22:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Talk about your first time running into and then ultimately making great magic with Aretha Franklin.
- [22:14]
Narada Michael Walden
Aretha Franklin. Daunting. Clive Davis opened that door for me and he just said, give her, give her a phone call. Like that, Very understated. And I called her and the conversation was just magical. I'm so glad I was prepared for the phone call with my, my pen and my paper to take little notes and things because she speaks in a way that I couldn't ever understand prior going into the conversation that that's how she would talk. But she speaks in a very high faluting, has her own language, her own way of describing things, that it's just. It's just her. So for example, I'd be on the phone, I said, well, what do you do? What do you do to have fun? And she said, oh, I might go out to a nightclub. In the nightclub, I see a guy in the corner. He look good, I look good. We're looking at each other, we both look good. Kind of like who's in one? Who. Yeah. But then, you know, he's looking at me, I'm looking at him. Oh, you think he got me. But then the fish jumps off the hook. He thinks he's got me, but the fish jumps off the hook. What are you talking. But that's how she was. Now get off the phone. I tell, press the glass. This is what she said. We gotta make a hit song out of this. And we did this out of the phone call, just her being her. So when you talk about her, that had that. That comes to my mind. Then when I went with the tape from San Francisco to Detroit to go meet her, that's a whole other history. Her walking in the room with her fur coat and her cigarette, she's still smoking and looking in my eyes. I look in her eyes, I let her know right away, I'm here to be your friend and serve the music and love you and be kind to you. I'm not here to fight with you. And then it was like, cool because I could see in her eyes the genius, the all knowing, you know, can hear everything, can sing everything, can play everything, piano, everything. Just looking at you. The all knowingness of God. She is. She's walking deity of God, the highest form. So how about that God know? I'm not here to fight. I'm here to make Music. And then, sure enough, with Dave Frazier, hit the play button, let the music come on. I saw that whole thing, like, just go. And she was like, that sounds so good, you know? You know. And then she'd go, I'm going out to the microphone. And she was. Sing down the octave four times straight through the whole song, down the octave, like a man range. And she'll say, okay, I'm ready to cut. I say, okay. And now she sounds up in her range like Aretha. And the whole take is like a hit record. In fact, to her, it is almost done. I'll sing one more time for you, you know, because you have a choice. She sing a second time, like, done. Okay. But then I'm so smart. Because I am smart. I'm a porpoise. And I'm like, flipper. They called him Flipper. Flipper. I said, you know what? Because now you're so high on the ending. Do all these riffs and stuff. Do you do one or two more takes? Adjust that. So I got all that in the bag. She said, okay. So I let her get happy. Whatever the riffs are, all those ideas just flowing. Because I realized with people like that, you can't come back to. You got to get it right. Then. Then go back to the first verse and get studious. Because that first verse is critical for the R B singer. If it's too much R B on the first verse, you can lose a lot of your pop audience. I know that. So now I'm a little concerned that the first verse is still too RB sounding. Perhaps too much flippancy going on. Maybe we need to have a little more subtle, or people in their cars and their offices can sing it back more easily on the first opening. We can get more progressive as we go along, but let's start out a little simpler. So she would say to me. Then she got kind to me. She knew I'm a good person. She looked at me, you know, I'm gonna do for you. I said, what? I'll give you one more take. It's called the Straight Reading. I go, the Straight Reading. What is that? I go in, I sing it one more time for you. A little closer to the melody that gives you one more take. I go, okay. And she goes back in. And she'll sing it to her. A little closer than melody to me. Not that much different, but a little bit. So inevitably, when I come back home to my studio in San Francisco here. And comp. Word. Comp means put the word. Put the. The best lyrics together. The best performances together, I end up using what I thought was two R&B. It's just so good. It's just so pure that you can't. You can't ignore it. You can't act like you're going to be simple because you want to be simple. No, it's just too good. So I end up using it. So I've learned so much from her just to kind of flow with her, make sure the chorus is a hit. I'd always go over there with the choruses stacked up backgrounds, so I knew that would be powerful. No matter what she would do, flipping around or carrying on. The chorus be so powerful that I get one take when she'd sing with the chorus to make sure I had it. And, man, once we knew each other, how we worked, we got it like peanut butter and jelly. And then she wanted, hey, what you want to eat? You want. You want a cheeseburger? You want some fried chicken? Nardu. Going down there, getting nada, nada. Going down to get nada some fried chicken and some cheeseburger. Fear beyond, man. Then she opened up her pants. Pow. Let her. Let her belly come out and go and sing one more thing for you or whatever it might be. Power unknown. No one can understand what it's like to be in the control room with speakers, hearing Aretha Franklin's voice coming out. Because I make things loud anyway, but powerful, clear, clean. Every note is what she wants it to be. She doesn't sing anything unless she hears it that way. For example, one time I said, this might be a little bit much here. She goes, well. She goes, well, play it to me. She'll light a cigarette. Well, then play it to me. And the ash almost be burning down just hanging on the cigarette. Listen to the whole thing. Loving, loving every damn thing about it. And I said, well, maybe this area right here, you know, could be a little simpler. She goes, well, that's just the way I hear it. Okay, I get it. I get it, man. I get it. So she opened my eyes, and I opened her eyes, too. We both got along great. We made our first platinum with George Michael. I knew you were waiting. Bam. I knew you were waiting for me. First big in the morning, pop record, million seller, Freeway of Love. Who's even who. All that stuff we did. I'm so proud of her and proud of my history with her. When I went to her funeral. She's the people's champion. All around the blocks in Detroit, just far as you could ever see. All the people just lined up to come and look at her the night before the big funeral, you know. And they had this song playing out from that church called Mary, don't you weep. With her singing, just perfect. You realize how damn genius she is? Was. Is Mary, don't you weep. As these people are all lined up. Her people, the disenfranchised of the world, the poor people. People ain't got nothing but just loved her. And it'd be a little symbolized, a little pink Cadillac on the front that I was very proud to see. But Freeway. Love, Sam, right there. I never. I never actually went to church to look at her. It was too bad. I couldn't even get in there. Even the day I went to for the funeral. I'm playing in the band, you know, for the music. And I wanted to go take a peek, a peek at her before they closed the coffin. Ralph Armstrong and I went around for the band. Stand all around the church. We can get in before they close. The captain, I said, no, respect the family. It's closed off now. You're five minutes too late. But this is nada. He's part of the family. Respect the family. It's closed off now. So it wasn't enough for me to see her like that, but we had the best of times. Before she passed away, she called me on the phone. I just want to tell you, I love sitting on the couch laughing with you. We had the best of times. See, that's the best it gets. I mean, she was saying. She was saying, and don't ever lose your million dollar smile, okay? Oh, man. See what I mean? You can't beat that, man.
- [30:51]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
That's priceless.
- [30:52]
Narada Michael Walden
You can't beat that stuff.
- [30:53]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, man.
- [30:54]
Narada Michael Walden
Oh, I got one more thing. I never played live with her back then. Toward the end of her life, the last seven shows of her life, she said, would you come play with me? I said, I'd be honored. And I made seven shows with her, you know, New Jersey, at the JPAC center, whatever it was called. Boston was incredible. Oh, my God. New York at that Radio City Music hall, that Clive Davis event we did. And the last show was the Elton John AIDS concert at St. John Devine. And I mean, it was packed with Sting, Billy Joel, Clyde Davis. Anybody with. Anybody in New York was there now. This would be her last show. And she came out kind of real thin now. And people are kind of like, whoa. You know, but it didn't matter, man. She sang her ass off. And that band played its ass on Freeway in Love. When before the bunny was like 15 minutes long. She wanted us to rock it, man. And she'd leave the stage and come back and still rock it. So that's how she was. And I remember at one point she did her tribute to Nessa Dorma live. And I play the symbols with the malice. And I could see over there Sting. And there's Sting all crying just to hear her sing. That's in Durham. It was so beautiful. I have one more memory I'm going to share with you because it's on my brain.
- [32:19]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
Sure.
- [32:20]
Narada Michael Walden
The first time I played live where there would be. What do you call those? An affair where they're like a private function, not for just the public, for a private affair.
- [32:30]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
- [32:30]
Narada Michael Walden
Like in New York.
- [32:31]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yep. Corporate or whatever.
- [32:33]
Narada Michael Walden
A great one, though. I mean, like a high faluting one. And that was the first time I played live with her. And I went up on a jam called Chain of Fools. She had another drummer from the Detroit, forgetting her name, Galene. Galene. The beautiful girl. A woman could play really great. So she'd be with there and then it'd be my turn. And I came out on Chain of Fools. Chain of Fools got so rocking with Ralph Armstrong and I that after she sang the song, she said, keep on going. We kept going. Rock Chain of Fools, right? She goes and sits down like. Like a prize fight, like in the corner, like sitting down in the chair. Then she says, tells the guys, bring me some towels. They wrap her throat with towels, you know, like. Like a prize fighter all wrapped up and wrecked, what look like wet towels. We're over rocking, you know, Chain of Fools, you know what I'm saying? It's really into it. And she's sitting there looking at me, you know, as I'm grooving. At one point she stood up, threw off them towels, went back that mic and started rocking hardcore. That's why people love her. She just gave everything. Everything, man. It was like Ollie and Frazier, just pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. And then I started realizing when you go to Boston, before she even come out, the audience, like, Aretha, you're here. It'd be like a frenzy in the audience before she even walked on the stage. And another thing I learned, you could never talk to her before a show. I mean, she knows you're there, but she'd be dead quiet, not mentioning a word to anybody, saving her voice for a show. And also to be back there mist to make it misty for her. But never. You can never talk to her. You can never talk to her. And she Come out and just kill. And she warned you to kill. And we did. But after every show, the classic thing is true, you know, Go into her bra, pull out the cash, pay you in cash. Then you have to sign a little piece of paper. You got paid in cash, you know, so. All right. But then one time I got embarrassed because I knew I was getting paid more than other cast in the band. So her, her. Her girlfriend, part of the family, said, go and count your money now. I think it's gay. Not Gaylene, was it? Earlene. Earlene, go and count your money now. But I feel embarrassed accounting in front of everyone. All the band look at me like this. Yeah, count your money now. Let's see how much you got. I turn my back, you know. Karen. Okay, thank you. It's all here. Thank you. But I don't want to see how much it was you make. Make the band upset. And then re the said to me, you gonna join me in New Orleans for the Jazz Fest? I said, of course, I'll be there for you. But she never made the Jazz Fest. She never made the Jazz Fest. She kind of hold her little side. I knew she was in pain, you know.
- [35:18]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, thank you.
- [35:18]
Narada Michael Walden
We had a close relationship.
- [35:20]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
You sure did.
- [35:21]
Narada Michael Walden
As close as it gets, I think.
- [35:22]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
You know, I'm still trying to get my arms around. I love the visual. When you said in the studio how she just kind of, you know, un unbuttoned things there and let things hang.
- [35:33]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
And said, let me let it rip, baby.
- [35:35]
Narada Michael Walden
That's what. How it was. I love it. What she wanted to really go for. Like, you know, she under. Under her pants. Love it. Oh, yes. And. And one more thing you should know. This is classic on the number one record. You know, I. In those days, it was tape. So I only had like one real tape for George, 10 tracks. Another, I mean, two reels. One with a track, with a band and then another reel. The track could be 24. 10 for George, 10 for Reef and 4 for they can Mess Around. So the first day, Aretha would come in and do all our parts. Not the. All the ad lib stuff, just the verse and the river was I. The choruses and the, you know, verse, the basic stuff. Then George come the next day, really nervous to lay down his stuff. He lay down his verses, his choruses, and I wouldn't do too much outro. So I want to save a third day for them to come together for the ending. But even the verses and choruses, George would say to me, you know What? After doing 10 tracks here. Go back over my first four tracks. I'm feeling stronger. And I would say, no, George, I ain't doing that. Those first four tracks are the record. You think you're getting better, but in fact it's not. You're going down. The first four tracks were your strongest, and I'm saving those tracks. And he looked at me like, who the hell do you think you are? I'm George Michael. I know you're George Michael. But he wasn't used to having a producer. I wasn't used to working with him. But I had to stand up strong because I knew what I knew. And I said, george, if you just go home, I'll stay up all night, cop together the best parts to show you when you come tomorrow. If you got any problem, we could do tomorrow. But right now I'm stopping. I can't go any further because these are the best tracks. So he came next day. I was able to knock him out with how. How good it sounded. Then we could focus on the ending. And on the ending. I got two mics for Aretha and for him. I had just enough to go over the ending four different times. First couple times, Aretha is being really nice to him, you know, just being kind of mild. Third and fourth time, hell, now she's. Now she's hot. She let it rip. You listen to the Amy, but you hear just an incredible thing. And stunned George, you're like, got stunned. It's so incredible. It's on the record. So I love that moment to see George get stunned by her.
- [37:56]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
- [37:57]
Narada Michael Walden
Do the knockout blow on him. She didn't want to scare him, but, hell, she couldn't. Couldn't help it. She's Aretha.
- [38:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, man.
- [38:05]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah.
- [38:06]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I have two more things I want to talk to you about.
- [38:08]
Narada Michael Walden
Go ahead.
- [38:09]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
One is I want to talk about Euphoria and still yours for the summer. Oh, there it is. The hearts are coming up. Tell me how much enjoyment you had creating that work.
- [38:22]
Narada Michael Walden
Which one? Euphoria. Yeah, that was great. That was with our partner in Italy named Lino Nicolosi and his family, where I write my songs over here. Cut them, do what I'm going to do, sing them, and some over there for his touch to add into it, his guitar work, his sister on badass bass player, his brother, badass keyboard player. Kind of just dress it up from the European standpoint. I want to make sure I offer something to the European people of my work because they love me over there. Ever since I had. I should love Jean's Nine more Right. Divine Emotion. Europe comes to life with my music. Gimme, Gimme Gimme was like number one in Sweden. So I thought, let's have some fun with the European touch. And that's what he brought. That was a lot of fun for me to hear back and forth, the culmination of my. My vibe, his vibe coming together. And on the song for Sting, I had that labolt, Sting, Carlos, Stevie, the More I Love My Life. And I said, let me just make this into the little European touch on it. So he did that too. And that was lovely. Called the More I Love My Life. So that was a lot of fun to me. A lot of hard work because it's. You're working two cartlets, you know, when I'm. When I'm sleeping, he's awake and vice versa, you know, I wake up at six in the morning, whatever. And there he'd be like Omni. But notes and notes and notes. So that was a lot, but it was. It was great music. Now this new album, mine, I made it right here in my. In my house. So.
- [39:41]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Still yours for the summer?
- [39:43]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah, it's. In a way, it's easier for me because I can just do it, you know.
- [39:47]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
And you had the. The great version of Hot Fun in the Summertime.
- [39:51]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah. I felt like an honor to Sly. I didn't realize he's going to die, but something in my spirit said, hunter Sly and make it a dance version. Like, just change it up. So I took a hot button and made it a dance, kind of disco and fun and what you wouldn't expect. And when I did it, Jeff McCluskey out of Chicago, the big radio guru from Clyde Davis's camp.
- [40:10]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I know Jeff. Yeah.
- [40:11]
Narada Michael Walden
And his team, they said this should be a first single because it's something old, something new. I said, okay, put it up. So they did. But then I kept. Then I came with another song called Bougie Cherry Bomb for the summertime Color. Cut out. Funky bikini, sexy type song. Having fun in the, you know, on the beaches and all that. And then our third single, we decided to make Warner Chapel. Said, do something from your catalog, you know, because you got this great catalog. Take one of those songs and redo it. I said, well, let's take I Should have Loved you'd. And I had. I remember that Lino had done a remix of I Should have Loved you. So after I took Leno remix, make sure I had. Did my. Did new vocals, new stuff on it, you know. And that became our third single. And now the album Is just freshly out. And I'm very proud of the song. Still goes to the summer. Features Neil Sean from junior Great solo from him. Got another testimony from Ma Vishnu how much I love him, how much he helped me, discovering me, bringing me, opening the door. Because I got to tell you, Buzz Knight to making this industry the hardest thing in the world. There's no book on it. There's no book on it. There's no magic. It's just happenstance. I saw so many talented, talented people in Midwest, you know, touring. I think they're so great, gifted, but maybe they never make it. So I was just always praying how I was going to make with this mahabish dude that actually took me in mainly because I think I was ready to pray and meditate with the guru and just make myself what he needed me to be. And it was. It worked out. And God blessed me because from there I toured my business and met Jeff Beck and then Weather Report and you know, it all kind of by Tommy Boland. I actually joined Tommy Boland's band over Weather Report because I wanted to do more rock and roll at that time. So all those doors just started opening for me, you know, Garden Love Light. I was able to make my own solo albums with Atlantic. You know, it's easy, but. But God made a way. So I'm very thankful in my life that I've been able to kind of cross, you know, meet Tommy Dowd, you know, who says, you got to bring us to Houston singing On the guard of Love Life. I go, okay, I didn't know Sissy, but he did. So here in comes Sissy Houston with her whole group. And here's a Little Whitney Houston, 11 years old in the corner watching the session. And they sound incredible. Wow. I met Whitney when she was 11. That's because of Tommy Dowd.
- [42:39]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Incredible.
- [42:40]
Narada Michael Walden
I got another piece for Jeff Beck. Jeff flew in from London to become the same the rascal Carlos Fantana come playing on First Love on my first album. Sounds so blessed. Mike Gibbs, who arranged the strings for Apocalypse from Obvious Orchestra, arrange the strings for my album Garden Love Light. So I'm just. I'm really, really grateful that so many nice things have been in able to come across my path.
- [43:07]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Can you share the new project that you're. That you're working on?
- [43:10]
Narada Michael Walden
Which one? You mean the one today?
- [43:12]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, today.
- [43:13]
Narada Michael Walden
Today we're on a very heavy project. Heavy in the sense that it's so mind blow, mind boggling. We're doing a tribute to Motown. It's called the Motown Salutes a song that Otis Williams from the Temptations wants me to write. And we're writing it together to honor all the greatness of Motown. So I cut the track twice because I wanted to make it. First time I did, it was more like kind of easy going, like a what's going on kind of cool. But then we. We want to amp it up. We. Man, we have to track that twice now, making it more.
- [43:45]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
More.
- [43:45]
Narada Michael Walden
More dynamic. So. And then I had to look at changing my lyric to make that more dynamic too. But it's so much of a story. Who you. Who you. Who you put in, who you have to leave out because you only got four minutes, you know, but it's incredible. The. The word that came out of Motown is staggering. You know, James Jameson, Benny Benjamin. How they found a little CD wonder. Ronald White for the Miracles. How Smokey wrote My Guy and My Girl produced them. Of course, all the hits for the. For. For the Miracles. Became the vice president of the company. How the Temptations came on, that came on the scene and became the biggest act over there. You know, Four Tops. Diana Ross was. Was a receptionist they came down to. Ross became the Supremes. Martha Reeves told me she had the hottest records, you know, Heat Wave and Quicksand and Dancing the Streets. Because you paid him more money. That's why my records had more heat on. Damn. It's true. Those. Those records she put out was. Had fire. It's just so much in there.
- [44:43]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah. Oh, my God, how exciting. And bless the great Mickey Stevenson.
- [44:47]
Narada Michael Walden
Right, Right. But his name is not mentioned, but exactly.
- [44:50]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah. Well, he was always the man behind the scenes, right?
- [44:53]
Narada Michael Walden
Yeah. The Andantes, all the backing singers, they're not really mentioned, but they were there. Kim Wesson, who I loved, you know. Take Me youe Arms, Rock Me, Rock Me A little while. That's not mentioned. It's just more of the main thing that we all know.
- [45:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, man.
- [45:05]
Narada Michael Walden
And Barry Gordy.
- [45:06]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Narada Michael Walden
And his team. How hard they worked to take all these kids from the ghettos. They had nothing. And polish them up, teach them how to eat, how to dress, how to dance, how to meet the King and the Queen and had hit records. And they did.
- [45:23]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, man, I can't thank you enough. I can't thank you enough for being on Taking a Walk Narrative Michael Bald and for all you give us while you continue to give us the joy, you give us the energy, you give us the positive vibes and the love. Oh, man, thank you so much.
- [45:40]
Narada Michael Walden
They can you too.
- [45:41]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
This was an honor.
- [45:42]
Narada Michael Walden
You want to do anything else. You're all done.
- [45:44]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I I you know what? Part two will be coming around. I love it. I love I'm so grateful.
- [45:53]
Narada Michael Walden
About me man.
- [45:56]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
You are the best. Thank you so much.
- [45:58]
Narada Michael Walden
Thank you brother. Love you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:19]
Podcast Narrator/Advertiser
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- [48:21]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [48:51]
Narada Michael Walden
Thursday Night Football is on, and it's only on Crime Video. You better look out. You better get ready. This week, it's a rivalry renewed as the Philadelphia Eagles take on the New York Giants. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF Tonight, presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member? Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Eagles and the giants Thursday at 7pm Eastern, only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. This is an iHeart podcast.