Paul Rappaport: A Music Industry Legend and his look at Music History

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Paul Rapoport: A Music Industry Legend and his Look at Music History"

Podcast Title: Takin' a Walk
Host: Buzz Knight
Guest: Paul Rapoport
Release Date: June 13, 2025
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of the "Takin' a Walk" podcast, Buzz Knight welcomes Paul Rapoport, a venerable figure in the music industry. Paul, a longtime Columbia Records executive and author of Gliders Over Hollywood, shares his extensive experiences and insider stories from the golden age of rock. The conversation delves into Paul's interactions with legendary musicians, his promotion strategies, and the creative chaos that defines life in the music business.

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Guest Background: Paul Rapoport

Paul Rapoport brings decades of experience to the table, having worked closely with iconic artists such as Pink Floyd, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, and the Rolling Stones. His book, Gliders Over Hollywood, encapsulates his journey and offers an intimate look into the behind-the-scenes workings of the music industry.

Paul Rapoport (04:10): "I'm trying to learn how to play the blues. I'm a kid in college, and an electric flag comes and I'm watching what he's doing... It can be sad, it can be happy, it can be exhilarating. All these emotions are flying out of this guitar."

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Early Influences and Musical Passion

Paul recounts his early fascination with music, beginning with his first memory of being moved by "Big Rock Candy Mountain." This song ignited his imagination and set him on a path toward a deep love for the guitar and blues music.

Paul Rapoport (14:19): "At 14 years old, when I heard Bob Dylan, that changed my life. I went out, saved up my money, bought a guitar, and taught myself how to play."

His transition from acoustic to electric guitar during his teenage years coincided with the rise of surf music and the British Invasion, particularly influencing his admiration for the Rolling Stones and Keith Richards.

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Navigating the Music Business

Paul shares anecdotes from his time at Columbia Records, emphasizing his genuine passion for music over business agendas. This authenticity fostered strong relationships with artists, who trusted his promotion efforts.

Paul Rapoport (13:55): "I had no other agenda other than I love this music so much. People knew if Paul Rapoport was coming with a project, it was going to have some meat to it rather than some fly-by-night operation."

He highlights the importance of work ethic and meticulous planning in his promotional strategies, often going the extra mile to ensure successful campaigns, such as envisioning elaborate promotions like "shooting a laser beam off a mountainside" for Pink Floyd.

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Stories from the Golden Age of Rock

1. Michael Bloomfield and the Blues Connection

Paul expresses his admiration for Michael Bloomfield, a guitar legend who deeply influenced his playing style. He recalls a pivotal moment when Bloomfield's advice led to a breakthrough in his guitar technique.

Paul Rapoport (06:49): "When I met him, he said, 'It's all in the fingers.' I went back and emulated what he did, turning the amp up and wiggling my fingers to achieve the vibrato I needed. It was a lightbulb moment."

2. Rolling Stones: From Fan to Colleague

Paul narrates his journey from being a 17-year-old fan attending Rolling Stones concerts to collaborating with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards at Columbia Records. He shares the surreal experience of advising Mick Jagger on marketing strategies years after idolizing the band.

Paul Rapoport (42:14): "I'm a 17-year-old kid falling for the Rolling Stones, and fast forward 20 years, I'm sitting across from Mick Jagger, telling him his marketing plan. It was a surreal experience bridging fan and promoter."

3. Journey and the Yiddish Challenge

One of the more unconventional stories involves Journey's manager, Herbie Herbert, who insisted Paul learn Yiddish to secure the release of a new single. This anecdote underscores the quirky and unpredictable nature of the music industry.

Paul Rapoport (50:08): "In order to get the next Journey single out, I had to learn two lines of Yiddish and call him back. You can't make this shit up."

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Insights on Artist Relationships and Promotion

Paul emphasizes the delicate balance between promoting artists and respecting their creative integrity. His genuine love for music allowed him to forge meaningful connections, ensuring that promotional efforts resonated authentically with both artists and audiences.

Paul Rapoport (27:11): "Having the work ethic to ensure everything worked perfectly and being genuine in my love for the music were key to my success."

He also reflects on the changing dynamics of the music industry, noting that while the essence of collaboration remains, the magic of the 70s, 80s, and 90s is harder to replicate in the modern landscape.

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Magic and Creativity in Promotion

An intriguing aspect of Paul's career is his foray into magic, which he seamlessly integrated into his promotional tactics. Learning from master magicians like Tony Slydini and Dai Vernon, Paul used magic to enhance his promotional strategies, making them more engaging and memorable.

Paul Rapoport (30:50): "Magic is a performance art. It's about getting people to think a certain way so that something amazing happens."

This creative approach not only set him apart in the industry but also demonstrated his ability to blend different forms of art to achieve promotional success.

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Final Thoughts and Book Promotion

As the conversation winds down, Buzz Knight commends Paul on his book, Gliders Over Hollywood, highlighting its rich storytelling and insightful look into the music industry's inner workings. Paul shares his passion for the book, detailing the meticulous effort he invested over six years to capture his experiences accurately.

Paul Rapoport (40:25): "It took six years of writing, rewriting, and perfecting every paragraph to ensure the book truly reflected my journey and the stories within."

He encourages listeners to dive into his book to gain a deeper understanding of the music business and the personal stories that shaped its history.

Paul Rapoport (59:03): "Gliders Over Hollywood is more than just stories; it's an inside look at how the business worked and how these incredible relationships were formed."

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of Paul Rapoport's life in the music industry, blending personal anecdotes with valuable insights into music promotion and artist relationships. Listeners gain a unique perspective on the behind-the-scenes dynamics that have shaped some of rock history's most significant moments. Paul's authenticity and passion for music shine through, providing both inspiration and a deeper appreciation for the artistry that drives the industry.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Paul Rapoport (04:05): "I'm amazed that I'm on this side of the microphone."
• Paul Rapoport (14:19): "At 14 years old, when I heard Bob Dylan, that changed my life."
• Paul Rapoport (27:11): "Having the work ethic to ensure everything worked perfectly and being genuine in my love for the music were key to my success."
• Paul Rapoport (50:08): "You can't make this shit up."
• Paul Rapoport (59:03): "Gliders Over Hollywood is more than just stories; it's an inside look at how the business worked and how these incredible relationships were formed."

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For those eager to delve deeper into Paul Rapoport's experiences and insights, Gliders Over Hollywood is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and local bookstores.

Transcript

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Paul Rapoport]

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[Buzz Knight]

In order for me to get the Journey single, this is real stuff. I want people to know this is not bullshit. In order for me to get the next Journey single out, I have to get go find the Yiddish book, learn two lines of Yiddish, call him back, read the Yiddish, and then he'll talk to me and we'll get the Journey single out. You can't make this shit up.

[Paul Rapoport]

Today on the Taking a Walk podcast, Buzz Knight is joined by a true legend of the music industry, Paul Rapoport. As a longtime Columbia Records executive and author of Gliders Over Airships, Airplay and the Art of Rock Promotion, Paul has spent decades behind the scenes with some of the most iconic names in rock history, from Pink Floyd and Bruce Springsteen to Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones. Today, Paul shares unforgettable stories from the golden age of rock, like flying the Pink Floyd airship across America, training Tarlex with David Gilmore on stage, and navigating the wild creative chaos of life on the road with music's biggest stars. Join Buzz Night for an audio journey through music history as we take a walk with Paul Rapoport on the Taking a Walk podcast.

[Buzz Knight]

So, Paul Rapaport, thanks for being on Take It a Walk. It's so great to see you in person, my friend.

Thanks for having me on. I'm amazed that I'm on this side of the microphone.

It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. So, so since the podcast is called Taking a Walk, before we get to your fabulous book and the See Me underbelly of its creation.

If you could.

Take a walk with somebody, living or dead, doesn't have to be a musician, but since you've lived a life around music, maybe that would be great. Who would it be and where would you take a walk with them?

I think it would be Michael Bloomfield, because as a guitar player, I've been playing guitar since I was a kid. He really spoke to me when I got turned on to the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and I listened to what this guy was doing. He's not as well known as he should be, you know, for being the great guitar player that, that he was. I mean, Bob Dylan considers him to be the best guitar player he ever played with. Just to give you an idea of, you know, how great Michael Bloomfield is. And I met him once briefly what you read in the book. But he's a big hero of mine and I think it would be him because he's not living anymore and If I could go back and just talk to him about the blues and, you know, his style and how he learned to talk with the instrument and everything. And I'd probably would be in Chicago with him where he, you know, played in all those clubs and learned his craft. You know, hanging out with guys like Muddy Waters and these people, that would be a thrill for me. I remember actually being in a studio, working on a record, and I had to play a part in time, in beat, and it was. You had to get in a groove. And I. And it's gonna sound hippie, dippy, but I. I was, like, channeling him. Like, I was like, hey, Michael, you know, like, just sit on my shoulder just so I can get this done.

Yeah.

You know, and I felt like he was there, and it was like, oh, no, you got this. And I just. I don't know, you know, I just felt special. So it would be him in Chicago.

And knowing you, I think you would get some unique takes out of him. You would get down to the core of what drove him as an artist, and you would get something out of him. I think that would be different than most folks would get out of a person like that.

I believe, knowing you, I think, you know, having grown up and being involved, you know, with guitars from an early age, it's something that's been a part of me my whole life. And of course, you know, all the artists that I work with in my career, it was a sort of an instant bond with them because aside from talking about, you know, the promotion of them and selling, you know, you know, albums and eventually CDs, etc. Etc. They knew that their music was inside me, that I loved their music. And, you know, it was easy for me to talk to them. And I could talk and have deep conversations because I could talk about, you know, albums in certain parts and how did this happen. And, you know, because I was such a fan and it gave me a wonderful entree, you know, in the music business because I wasn't viewed as a suit, right? I was like, oh, this. This guy's cool. He's going to help us. But he. He knows our stuff. Like, he knows what he's talking about. So I think I probably would. You know, I mean, I write in my book about meeting Michael Bloomfield briefly, and I'm trying to learn how to play the blues. I'm a kid in college, and an electric flag comes and I'm watching what he's doing and the guys playing a Les Paul, which I didn't know how meaningful that was at the time. I just know that these notes are screaming out of this guitar. And he's talking to me with this guitar like he's. He's. It can be sad, it can be happy, it can be exhilarating. All these emotions are flying out of this guitar. He's plugged into five different amps, which is a whole nother story. It was. He was working and crafting his sound, you know, But I think that because he felt so much in his music, that we would have a different kind of a discussion, you know, where does this come from? And how. How do you do this? And I remember going backstage afterwards, introducing myself, saying, hey, I'm the college rep for ucla. I'm a big fan, you know, blah, blah. And I'm learning how to play the blues and trying to get this sustain. How do you do this? And he looks at me and he goes, oh, it's in the fingers. It's all in the fingers. And as I write in the book, I thought he was egoing out on me, like, oh, hey, it's all in the fingers, right? And he leaves. And I go back to my fraternity house and I just emulate what he did. I go, hmm, it's all in the fingers. You know, I have a guitar at the time as a Rickenbacker. It's not the greatest guitar for blues, but I do what he did. I turn the amp all the way up, I turn the volume all the way up, and I wiggle my finger. As most guitar players know, that's how you get a vibrato. You hit a note and you wiggle your finger, it makes a vibrato. That's how you get the sustain. The light bulb of the century goes off in my head, and I'm like, oh, my God. He wasn't egoing. He's trying to teach me something. And I'm running back across campus screaming my guts out. People think I'm crazy. It's in the fingers. It's in the fingers, you know, And I wanted to tell him, but he was long gone, right, you know, by the time I got back to, you know, the hall where he played. But I would just love to have another conversation with that guy about so many things, but he would be the one.

I love the story. And I think what. I'll pile on the accolades at the beginning about you and in the middle of the interview and at the end, so I'll equally distribute the accolades. But I think one of the keys to your success as a promotion leader for your Company was the fact that you weren't bullshit and you were genuine in your love for the music and for what the artists were doing. And people instantly picked up on that. They. They knew if Paul Rapaport was coming with a project that it was gonna be something that had some meat to it rather than some fly by night operation.

Yeah, well, you know, I had no other agenda other than I love this music so much that we grew up with this music. Late 60s, early 70s. I mean, this shapes our lives. Bob Dylan shaped the way, I think. So did Pink Floyd, so did the Rolling Stones, the Beatles. So I come to the business just with a love of music and no other agenda other than to help these people along because they had given so much to me. I was like, hey, I get to give back to these people and new artists. When I joined Columbia, you know, Aerosmith is a brand new band. There's a new guy named Bruce Springsteen, there's a new guy named Billy Joel, there's a new guy named Elvis Costello. These are all new people. They're brand new. They're just starting out. So we're starting out together where I'm the same age as all those guys. So I think because I come from the 60s thing, which was a more authentic, genuine place. I'm not the pre, you know, the 50s, you know, promo guys, like the hey, babe guys, you know, I'm not that slick person. And my only agenda is I love this music and I get to shout about it, right? I'm gonna go try to get this on radio to tell people, hey, I love this music. And guess what? You know, so will you if you can hear this, etc. I think also because of my work ethic, people knew if I would bring a promotion to them. One of the greatest compliments I ever got was from somebody when I brought them something that was, you know, I have a big imagination. I'd bring them something pretty big and they said, that's okay. Rap. Because my last name's Rappaport, so my nickname's Rap. That's okay. Rap. Your shit works. And it was the biggest compliment I ever had. Like, oh, they trust me. Like, no, your shit works. Whatever you have, even if it's outlandish, you know, which could be shooting a laser beam off a mountainside or a giant airship for Pink Floyd, at least they knew I'd done my homework. And yes, you know, it would work. So I think those two things, having the work ethic to just make sure everything did work, you know, by perfection. Having a List. I would always make myself a checklist. I don't care if it's the smallest promotion or the biggest television show. You make yourself a checklist of you anticipate every little thing, every big thing, and every little thing. All you have to do is go down the list. You'll never fail. You'll be perfect, because you just keep looking at the list. Oh, I didn't do that. Oh, I didn't do that yet. So that was something that I adopted early on. You know, what you read about in the book, which really helped.

That was an early lesson for you.

It was an early lesson, yeah, because it was like, oh, this is how you do it. And you learn along the way, you know, how to do these different things, how to approach problems, challenges. So I think those two things, a work ethic and, you know, not, you know, look, it's an entertainment business. A lot of people have agendas. They're trying to be this or they want to be that, or they're trying to get close to somebody because they want a favor. That just wasn't me. I was just pretty much what you see is what you get, you know?

Yeah. Well, it certainly proved its point time and time again. We'll get to the book more, but I want to ask you, do you recall, though, the first moment in your life where you were touched by music and you absolutely knew with some certainty you were going to have something to do with music in your life?

That's an interesting question. My first memory of music really moving me is it's a very old song. It's Big Rock Candy Mountain. You know, it's by a guy named Harry McClintock. And in this song, it's about a hobo, and it talks about living the hobo life. And in the Big Rock Candy Mountain, there's cigarette trees, there's lemonade springs, and there's a jail that only made out of tin so you can walk right out again as soon as you are in. I'm like, what, five or six, I hear this. And I love this song because I could see it in my head, you know, I have a big imagination. I could see this world in my head. And I went, wow, what a great world. So I listened to this over and over again as a kid because I went, this is a wonderful world. I'm only a kid. Right. And just even the whole idea of a jail where you can walk out again, it speaks to my inner rebel. Right? Yeah. So that's the first time, I think.

And you must have loved when it then became a central part of oh brother world.

Oh, it blew my mind. I was like, oh, that's my song. But the first time where I really have a wake up call is again, I'm seven years old and I'm, you know, it's Sunday morning in Los Angeles. My parents are sleeping in. I turn on the TV. There's not a lot on in the 50s on Sunday morning, but there was a live show from a very famous car salesman, Cal Worthington. Cal Worthington Dodge had a giant car lot and in order to get people interested, he had live music playing on the lot. It was mostly country. So as a kid, first of all, it's great because it's live. I'm transported to this place and I'm seeing all these players and singers and I'm like, this is amazing. And I don't know, Buzz, I guess for whatever reason, the guitars spoke to me. I'm looking at these guitars, I knew what a guitar was, of course, but it's the first time I'm seeing them in action. I'm like, look at these guitars. They're all different. Some of them are big, some are small, some of them have a wide neck, some of them are a nylon string, some are metal string. But they all have their own soul, right? Every time somebody hits the guitar, a different sound comes out. And all these people have songs and they have something to say. These songs have messages. And I'd always anticipate, geez, I wonder what this person's going to sing about. I wonder what that person's going to sing about. But the guitar, I don't know if it was the curves or the wood. It just seemed important. I went, wait, you know, somebody with a guitar on their shoulders got a message for me. And this is a big deal to me. And I remember after watching the show, I told my parents, not, I want to learn how to play the guitar. I need to, I need to do that. I need to learn how to play the guitar. And as you read, I mean, the woman who came to our house told my parents, oh, what she called the Spanish guitar, she said, oh, this will be difficult for him. He's got to push the strings down. Why don't we start him on lap steel, which is like, if you look at country bands, pedal steel, there's pedals that bend the strings, but there's lap steel, which without the pedals. And you can play slide guitar music, but you could play country. You could play, you know, Hawaiian music was big. It wasn't really my thing. At all. But it was electric. So I plugged into an amp and that was. Wow, this is elect. This is like, this is a cool thing. And so I start doing this at seven years old. And I think at that time it wasn't what I wanted, right? So I'm doing this for a little while and I'm like, I don't like this. You know, except for the one time I did the, you know, the recital where an 8 year old girl came, was doing a hula in front of me. I'm playing Hawaiian music, this girl shows up. All I know is I'm seeing more skin than I've ever seen in my life as a kid. You know, hula skirts, you know, below her navel, her legs are moving in and out. I'm only eight. I know I like this. I don't know why. I have no idea why I like this.

You knew why?

Yeah, I don't know at 8. What do you know at 8? Yeah, but, you know, but Hawaiian music music started to sound better and better. I was like, oh, and I'll stick with this royal. But at 14, when I heard Bob Dylan, that changed my life. And I went, okay, I forget I'm doing this. So at 14 years old and I heard Peter, Paul and Mary, but Dylan was really the one. Like, don't think twice, right? And I see the guitars they're playing and I just went out, saved up my money, went and bought a guitar. Strung it up in a way that I needed. I like the nylon look. I bought a guitar that happened to have steel strings. I actually took those steel strings off. I filed down the nut of the guitar so the nylon strings would fit. Made my own guitar, you know, lowered the action so that my fingers could play. Got a guitar chord book and just sat down and taught myself how to play the guitar. And I couldn't get it off out of my fingers. I just couldn't get enough of it. We'd be watching TV and I just, I just, you know, I wouldn't play it loud, but I'd be chording to make sure my fingers could remember how to go. Because, you know, in the beginning your fingers don't know what to do. You're taking your right hand and pushing your left fingers down to. No, this string is getting in the way of this. You have to make sure that the chords are clear. And ever since 14 years old, I just couldn't get the guitar out of my hands. It just became a friend of mine. It became like a companion. And, you know, if you Were sad. It could be a friend. If you were happy, you could play joyous stuff on it. It's just always there. At 15 and 16, I go electric. I grew up in Southern California. It's all surf music. Dick Dale, all right, you want to know where heavy metal came from? Even Jimi Hendrix tells you that he listened to Dick Dale. Go listen to surf beat with a Fender reverb from hell. You know, the echo of that thing in Miserloo and all these songs. And so, you know, early on, I learned how to play surf music, which, interestingly enough, the same thing was happening in England. All right, so I'm listening to the Ventures, right, And. And surf instrumentals at the same time. A guy named David Gilmore is in England. He's listening to Hank Marvin and the Shadows, and they had the big hit Apache. But it's the same Fender twang, right? It's the same things going on. This is how electric guitar is building, you know, until Jimi Hendrix comes along and then changes the face of the electric guitar. Yeah, but. So we started doing that. And then, of course, when the British invasion hit with the Beatles and the Stones, I was immediately attracted to the Rolling Stones because they were dangerous and I wanted to be dangerous. So I learned how to play electric guitar blues. Listening to early Rolling Stones records, listening to Keith Richards was how I learned how to play electric guitar. Like with an. You know, with a record album and a tone arm, which I ruined my records. Like, what? Going back. Drop the needle. What's he. How does he do that? What is he doing? And as a kid, there's no. We don't have YouTube. We don't have any of that. So that's the only way you're going to learn. Or a friend's going to come over and say, oh, here's a lick. Or here's how he's doing this, or whatever. You know, Years later, I met him, gave me a guitar lesson, which was amazing because I learned how all the Rolling Stone sets are made with G tuning. But at any rate. So I think from the age of 14, I know something's up for me with the guitar. By the time I go electric and I'm playing in bands in high school, I know something's really up now. I have no idea I'm going to be in the music business, and I have no idea if I'm going to make it as in music. You know, we had experiences. I was in a punk band in LA in 1973, which, you know, may have gone farther than we thought. I thought it was a lark. So, you know, I was going to get a real job at Columbia and I went, well, this is a steady job. I think I'll take this. I'll still play guitar. The leader of the band man's called Mogan David and his Winos. Believe it or not, it's a legendary band in la. If you go onto ebay and you look up our album like it's called Savage Young Winos, which is a takeoff on the Savage Young Beatles album with Pete Best. If you go on ebay, our album, Mogan Davison Winos. Savage Young Winos is like a bidding war. The last one sold for 133 records. If you go get the original Beatles album called Savage Young Beatles with Pete Best as the drummer, it sells for 50 bucks. I love it. So go figure. I don't know how this worked, but so we were in this band and you know, we were like, we're known in Hollywood. We're like the hip, you know, whatever punk band. But when the Columbia real job came up, Harold Bronson, who by the way, went on to be Rhino Records, he is the co founder of Rhino Records, right? Very talented guy. He wanted to take the band on the road. And I said, harold, I just don't think we're that good now. We buzz. We didn't know that at that time. Nobody was that good. There was a band, there was a group called the Wrecking Crew. These people are helping bands, even the biggest bands in the world, like the Beach Boys. Like I'd hear the Beach Boys and go, harold, which is not that good. Listen to these guys. It wasn't them, it's the Wrecking Crew. Like, you know, session guys helping them and of course.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But we didn't know that.

[Buzz Knight]

We didn't know that. So they're getting better as they play on the road. Guess what? If you practice, you get better. You play night after night, you get better. We didn't know that. So we didn't know anything. We snuck in the middle of a recording studio tonight, make our record. We didn't. We didn't know anything. Eq, what does that do? We don't know anything, right? So. But we made a record. We made a thousand. We sold a thousand. We sold them all over the world. I have reviews from France and Japan. I don't know if they like the record. I don't know what they say because they're different languages. But, you know, so we go on our merry way. I work for Columbia Records. I have a wonderful career there. Harold does Rhino Records, those guys, it's huge. But when the Ramones came out, Harold called me and he said, you see, this would have been us. And we don't know that it wouldn't have not been us. Because we didn't go down the road of, hey, can we get some help in the studio? We just thought, it's all on us. I mean, neither one of us are complaining. We both had wonderful careers and we, you know, had successful marriages and kids and all that kind of stuff, you know. And I don't know that I would have, you know, actually even been able to survive on the road. I think I might have been one of those road casualties. That's a rough life. I don't know if that's for me. But at any rate. But I guess in those times, I know music's playing a part in my life. I know it's always going to play a part in my life. Even when I got the job for Columbia, well, this would be the best of both worlds. I could still play. I can play in jam sessions. And lo and behold, I'm meeting all these people and I'm winding up playing. I wrote in the book, Taj Mahal came one day to the office. He usually would go to the recording studio. He came to the business office. I don't know why. Cool guy goes in the mailroom's, got a big flat back, Austrian bass. He just starts playing the bass, right? Because in those days, that's how it was. We were like one happy family, right? Okay. I don't know where I got the balls to do this, but I have the guitar in my office. I went in there and just started jamming with him, right? Every once in a while I look up, I just stop because I realize it's Taj Mahal. I freak out, right? So we get done. So half an hour later, or 40 minutes, he looks at me and goes, what's wrong with you? I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, you seem like you know where you're going. You're doing really good. Then you just stop. I go, yeah, I stop. Because I look up and I realize it's you. And I freak out. And he goes, well, that's your problem, right? And I came to realize these guys are all players. First people from that generation. Eric Clapton did not get into business to be a rock star. Rock star wasn't even invented, right? He invents that with other people. There is no such thing. At the time. There are pop stars, but there's no rock stars. Eric Clapton just wanted to be the best player he could be. If you read his autobiography, I just wanted to be a guitar virtuoso. And all of these blues things that I heard, I went, oh my God, it's already been done. Well, maybe I'll listen to Freddie King, but maybe if I do it my way, maybe I can make, quote unquote, a living, you know, you read Ronnie Wood's book, We just wanted to play. We didn't think about business, just me and Rod, we just got in a van, we just want to play. But they wanted to be the best players they could be. David Gilmour, same thing. They just wanted to be the best players they could be. And then all the business stuff came after. So they're musicians, right? I found myself, you know, when Steve Perry was making a solo record, you know, in a rehearsal, he goes, oh, hey, rap. Oh, I know you can blow. Just grab one of my guitars and come up here. I'm like, okay, what do you want to do? I don't know, like, I'm a blues guy. Okay, Perry. Okay, Blues in A minor. Oh, no. He asked me the key. What key do you want? I go, perry, you're the singer. You know, it's like all of a sudden I'm playing guitar with Steve Perry from Journey, right? I wound up playing with, with the little feet guys. This would happen to me just because I'm a player, you know. And then you read in the book, eventually I wind up playing with Pink Floyd, which is all. That's a whole another planet, you know.

But I think one of the underlying storylines, lessons inside the book is the aspect of your confidence and just frickin going for it. Whether it be as a player, whether it be in the way that you approached, you know, your promotion work, the ability to think big and just say, let's let it rip, baby. Let's let it rap, baby. And I think as I reflect on the book, I think that's one of the things that everyone can take from it besides all the great stories. Would you agree with that?

Oh, I think so. There's a, you know, there's a lot in this book beyond the stories. And you know, I tried to write it like you are there, like you're having conversations, you know, with, with, with. With some of your favorite artists. Because I, you know, I'm blessed with like a photographic memory. I can, in these conversations, I remember the conversation buzz. I can remember the room. I mean, I remember having dinner with Mick Jagger. I can tell you what he had to eat I mean, I can visualize this plate. I mean, that's kind of wacky stuff.

Well, you are a bit of a savant.

Yeah, I'm whatever it is. I'm something. So, you know, these things, you know, come to me and so. But I wanted to make sure that more than stories, I, you know, I hope people could. Could get, you know, here's an inside look of how this works. Or here's how, you know, my mind worked, you know, and I had a big imagination and I had a big work ethic and I had, you know, I wanted to be the best. You know, I guess that's an ego thing, but I, you know, I wanted to be the best. I just, I don't want it to sound like some, like I'm egoing up, but I had to be the best at what I did. It was just something inside. Like, I'm going to be the best at this and I'm going to do bigger than life things, you know? Yeah, that does take a belief in yourself and it does take a bit of attitude. But I would visualize things and then I would make them happen. So, like, I have a big imagination. So I could visualize an airship for Pink Floyd or shooting a, you know, a giant laser cannon off a mountainside or, you know. You know, even I did a TV show, you know, once at a TV series. I was just. I could see it. And once I saw it, it was like, okay, I see it. How do we do that? Okay, get the checklist out. What does it take? Everything takes something different. What does it take to make these things happen? And it's like building blocks. You just, you know, it's like building a company, you know, look, you built a company. It's like building a company. It's the same thing. Here are the things that need. That you need. If you're going to shoot an argon laser cannon off a mountainside, these are the things you need. These are the things you need for a giant psychedelic airship. You know, there's a television show Live by request, okay. I didn't know about television. I had to learn how to make a television show. Okay. It's okay. There are people that teach you how to make a television show from the get. What do you need? How does this work? How do the lights work? How do the camera people work? How do the producers work? Who do I hire? You can learn it, but I would see it. I have, like, I'd see it. I guess the best way to, you know, to have you understand, like, I envision these things and then I build them.

Well, and that's probably what eventually led you down the path of. And where your, your mind and your, your memory went with all this, with, you know, being a magician. A card trick maestro. I mean, it, you have to have a memory and a mind that works uniquely to be able to pull some of the stuff off that you were able to pull. Right. I mean, there's a secret to it.

Yeah. You know, especially in, in magic, you know, I, I write about, you know, my forays into magic. I had an uncle who was a big time magician in Florida, and I started learning as a kid. Later in life, you know, I wind up getting lessons from one of the great masters that invented a lot of the slights that people still use today. There was two major league magicians. One was a guy named Tony Slydini, who took his name from Houdini because he's from the 40s. There was a guy, Dai Vernon was on the west coast and Tony was on the East Coast. I saw Tony perform. I took lessons with him. Magic will teach you a lot. There's a lot about it that's not just the slights. Right. It's a lot of mind. You know, what am I going to tell people? What journey do I want to take them down? It's a performance art, you know, it's getting people to think a certain way so that something else happens and something else happens. And there's a lot that I learned and there's a lot that you can divine from how magic works in the, in the human mind. And I, as you read, I brought some of this stuff to light in the book, how I actually even took some of those premises and, you know, made it a part of my promotion efforts. Because there were things that I learned that I could, quote, unquote, make magic happen in certain ways that helped records along that maybe needed some help that wasn't going to get there on its own.

Right.

So, you know, so that was, it was, it was, it was helpful. So I think the way your mind has to work for that stuff is a lot of people don't realize. They think it's always just sleight of hand or something. Oh, no, no, that's, that's, that's just the basics. Just, you know, magic is bigger. I mean, if, if you wanted, you know, I hate it when people say tricks. I don't like that we're not doing tricks. I didn't, you know, I want to do magic. Magic's different, okay? You do magic and people Are like, whoa, is that. Was that real? Like, wait a minute. You know, if you want people to get to that place, you get people to get to that place, and then you've accomplished, you know, something. So. Yes, yes.

Yeah, it applied. It was part of what you ultimately.

Became a part of my life. And, you know, it was great witnessing it.

I remember the first time. Absolutely blew my mind. I was already a fan of yours. And then I'm like, this guy's a freaking superhero, you know, and there. And there he's.

He's.

We're leaving. We'll get to Bob Dylan more in a bit, but we're leaving. The Bob Dylan moment that you were gracious enough to include me in.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And.

[Buzz Knight]

And I remember that Bob wanted you to stay behind because he wanted you to do that. That trick where he was a big.

He was a big magic.

He left the jack of hearts.

Right, right. Yeah. No, he. He was a big magic fan, Bob. So he liked for me to come backstage and do, you know, card magic or whatever. He was just a big fan, you know. But the jack of hearts story is funny because I did this effect where I wanted him to wind up with the jack of hearts, right? And there's ways that you can do that, because I thought, well, this will be, you know, Bob will love this because it's, you know, Lily, Rosemary and the jack of hearts, right? So I do this whole thing, this concoction, everything. Jack of hearts comes up. Bob's like, pretty cool. I go, well, Bob, you know, jack of hearts. He goes, well, so what? I go. I go, well, you know, Lily, Rosemary, and the jack of hearts. And he looks at me like, you know, who cares? Like, that's the farthest thing from. You know, this guy's written so many songs in my mind, it's like, oh, that's one of the biggest Bob Dylan songs. He doesn't even put two and two together that the jack of hearts comes up. It doesn't matter to him. Maybe he did.

He was just playing with you.

Well, Bob can do that, right?

We'll get back to Bob.

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, maybe, you know, maybe you don't know. He could have been, but I don't think so. I think it was just my view on him, but he, you know. And look, I would have fun with all you guys. It's a. Fun. It's a people thing. So you. Like, if you and I go out to dinner and then afterwards. And I don't force it on people. I'm not one of these guys. Oh, you know, pick a card. I'm not you to ask. If you're really interested, I'll do something. Well, I'm not that guy. Right. But for people who love it, it's fun. How much fun is this? Okay, let's have dessert. Oh, you want to see, like, half an hour magic? Sure. Great. Okay. Here's corns going through a tabletop. You know, it's like, why not? You know, I love it because it's also a people thing. It's something I do with people. It's not my. The way that I do. It isn't like I'm the magician and you're not. I'm much the opposite. I want to be as amazed as you. So when things happen that are amazing and you're getting a kick out of it, I'm getting a kick out of, like, man, that was amazing. You know, I want to be a part of it. I don't want to be the, you know, the sort of overlord of it. It's better to be, you know, just with everybody else hanging out and freaking out, you know, over watching this stuff happen.

Yeah.

[Paul Rapoport]

We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Buzz Knight]

NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw. Hope to see you back. I'm Lester Holt.

[Tom Yamas]

It's carried forward.

[Buzz Knight]

Tom Yamatz is there for us.

[Tom Yamas]

Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a concept and from one era to the next, trust is the anchor. For NBC Nightly News, I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.

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[Paul Rapoport]

Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.

[Buzz Knight]

So there's so many people I want to talk about about here, so we're gonna have to. I don't want to do the lightning round effect at all, but I do want to run through some of the Mount Rushmore of music that you have been exposed to and you were part of that is so well chronicled in the book. And you do take us into it and it does make you feel like you're, you're there. So you did an amazing job of crafting it. The book is beautiful. The, the layout of it, the feel of it, the pictures.

Yeah, I got lucky. I had some publishers who are really into art.

Yeah, but you care. Back to your work. It's so obvious too. So the publishers care. You care. It's a great product. So it's a beautiful book. The pictures are rich. I remember talking to you early on when you were still working on it and you hadn't even completed it and you were already beautifully obsessed and proud of the work even at that point. I remember. So I know now you really are.

Well, it took six years. I mean, this is six years of writing, rewriting, putting Stuff in, throwing stuff out. I wanted it to be great. And that takes time. And so. And I slaved over every paragraph, every sentence, words. I mean, just, you know, I had four editors that helped. You know, like, they're like record producers. You know, the fellow from Jawbone Press the books on Jawbone. He's like a record producer. It's like, okay, you've got 15 tracks, let's cut it down to 12. I'm gonna re sequence your album. And here's a better bass line for this song. That's what record producers do. That's what people that you know that are in charge of books do. And he said, look, it's your book. He said, but geez, the way you've written it, I think it's a bit top heavy. I'd like to slide the Bob Dylan section a little closer here. I think your chapter one could be a prologue. I'm smart enough to know this is what these people do for a living. It took me a second, took me about a week. Because when he sent it back, it was different. Same stories, but kind of, you know, laid out different. And I took a big breath and I went, oh, no. This is like. This flows better. This. He knows what he's. This, you know, he knows. It was kind of like, I wish that some young bands would have listened to me more, right? I'm not going to be them. I'm going to be the one who listens. Like, I think this is like really amazing. So I just, I said, thank you, thank you, thank you. So, you know, the writing is mine, but the way that it's laid out is, was it's having a great record producer. I lucked out and got this guy, you know.

So, okay, Mount Rushmore. I'm gonna start with the Stones because I know you were more of a Stones person than a Beatles person. Even though Paul McCartney represents a significant part. So he'll be next. But what can folks take on the Rolling Stones experience that you. Experiences that you. But overall experience that you write about so well?

Well, I think first of all, I'm not writing from a too cool for school place. I want people to understand exactly how it was for me meeting them in the first place. Again, I'm a 17 year old kid falling over the Rolling Stones. I take my wife, my girlfriend at the time, who wound up becoming my wife, and we're little. What am I, 17? She's 16. Or however old we are in 1966, I take her to the Hollywood bowl to see my favorite band and Our favorite song was Everybody Needs Somebody to Love, which is a song they did on two different albums. And, you know, just like you see in the newsreels, we're jumping up and down, we're singing the songs. I mean, you know, Mick Jagger comes out, jumps high in the air. He's got this great leather jacket with conchos, you know, playing the tambourine. This is so long ago. Brian Jones is still in the band. Okay? So this is music that is. Is my life. It's shaping my life. Mother's Little Helper, all the messages, whatever. Now you fast forward 20 years, and I'm sitting on a couch right across the street, you know, over here in Blackrock, which was Columbia Records, you know, famous, you know, the CBS building. I'm telling Mick Jagger his marketing plan for his first solo album, she's the Boss. Because I've now come to New York and I'm the head of rock promotion for Columbia. Now I'm sitting next to this guy, telling him his marketing plan. The two most amazing things are. I know what I'm talking about because I'm steep now. I'm a professional record. You know, Promotion man. He's listening to me now. I got to shake my head like I'm just. Because I'm flashing back. I'm like, I'm just the kid that saw you not that many years ago. This guy's listening to me. And I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this, right? So first of all, to meet. I want people to know what it was like, even though I'm professional, to have to just take a breath and get it together to talk to these people. Because when you sit across from a Mick Jagger or Keith or Bob, any of these people that were a part of my life before, I'm in the music business. So like I mentioned before, when I start, it's Bruce and it's Billy Joel and it's Aerosmith. We're all the same age, we grow up together. I'm not in any less awe of their talent, but it's not the same feeling. It's not. I'm not in awe of them because we're just trying to make their. We're kids trying to make their careers happen, right? So. But when you see these people, like, you know, when you. I grew up watching the Ed Sullivan show, and I know every Rolling Stone, and I love Bill Wyman playing bass, being the famous bass, and just chewing gum and looking in the camera like, you know, all these visions I have, that's what you See, you don't see. Oh, here's a guy that's, you know, you know, done made a great career for himself. You, you, you can't help it. All the movies and all the songs and all the concerts you saw, that's what you're looking at. So it takes a second, right? And I wanted people to just travel with me. This is how it was. And then eventually you get to know them. Then I wanted people to see a different side of them. These guys are really cool people. I mean, they're. Because they've been there and back, right? These are seasoned people. It's a hard life. People just only see the fun stuff. They don't know the rough part about this business and what it can take out of you. So again, I wanted people to see, to meet me when I'm 17, learning how to play guitar right in my little blue collar town in Southern California. And B, flashed forward working with Mick Jagger and finally Keith Richards, my all time favorite rock hero, which, you know, you read in the book. The first time I read him, it's pretty druggie. So that's a whole other fun story for another thing. But, you know, but later I remade him when we signed the whole Rolling Stones and the guy gives me a guitar lesson. Now, again, I'm flashed back to the kid at 17 years old going, how I don't understand why I can't get this. And I meet him and because he's a guitar player first and a rock star second, it's the guitar club, right? I meet him, okay, look, I'm going to gush on you for about 30 seconds and I'll be professional again. I said, but you got to understand what you mean to me. As a kid growing up, he took it all in. He actually loved the fact that a kid listened to him. He said to me, no, this means a lot to me because I'm a musician, I'm supposed to pass it on. That's my job. He said, look, I'm proud of the Stones. I'm proud of everything we've done. But I'm supposed to pass this on to players like you and Dave Edmonds. How I got in the same, you know, list as Dave Edmonds, I don't know, but I'll take it. So then the guy gives me a guitar lesson. Now, it turns out that the reason my high school band couldn't get the songs exactly right is because most of the Rolling Stone hits are in G tuning. It's an open G tuning, it's a blues tuning. You Know that I explained in the book that he explained to me, he said, this is fun. You're going to see this goes home. It's only five strings. You're going to take the top string off, you're going to bar these chords. It's only two fingers. He was so excited to show me this, and I wanted people to see that side of Keith Richards. You know, you get the rock star stuff. I want them to meet a guy who loves the guitar so much he just wants to turn another guitar player onto this. I want them to meet a David Gilmour, who, as a thank you, him and Nick invited me to play live with them on stage in the London arena in front of 15,000 kids. Buzz. Who does that? Think about this. Who does that? We want to thank you so much for everything you've done for us. Come and play in our band. One song, live. You're going to play lead, you're going to have a blast. I want people to know that side of these people, you know, Mick Jagger is all about the business, but there's a story in here where you see his heart. I want people to know Mick Jagger's heart. I want them to see what I saw beyond, you know, what you normally see. Because for me, those were the greatest moments. You know, the glitz is the glitz. Yeah, they're rock stars. Yeah. I mean, I'm hanging out with the Rolling Stones, but, you know, when you're really working with somebody and you're trying to take the hill and you're trying to do something special for people and you're working with them shoulder to shoulder to try to make stuff happen, at the end of the day, it's just guys, you know, looking at each other, or guys and gals looking at each other. Hey, together we made this happen. It's real. It's very fulfilling, you know, because it's beyond the glitz, because it's just real stuff.

It's just the spirit of what yeah. Is music is all about, why music is just so incredibly special. And it's the essence and core of that. That's right.

So I hope people would take that away and you learn, you know, a lot of the inside stuff about how the business worked. And probably in the. In this day and age, it still has reminisces of the same kind of people help each other out, kind of a, you know, business. And it's still the business of music. So not as magical as it was 70s, 80s and 90s. Which is why, really, I had to capture it, because as you read, forget the artists, the managers, they're more eccentric than the artists. You're talking about banana brains. I mean, this would be, you know, Herbie Herbert Herbert, Herbie Herbert, making everybody learn Yiddish. If you want to talk to him, he's not even Jewish. I mean, this is real. This is rock and roll business in 1985. If you want to talk to us, you know, they send Yiddish for Dummies books to the whole industry. If you want to talk to me and their famous road manager, Pat Morrow. Bubba, right? If you want to talk to me or Bubba, you need to learn a couple lines of Yiddish, all right? So I will never forget this. It's a Thursday. I can't remember what Journey.

Herbie Herbert. Yeah, Journey's Journey.

Herbie Herbert's Journey's manager, okay? Journey's huge. The biggest bands in the world. I can't remember which one it was. We're selling 50,000 albums a week, right? We have to pick a single. It's timely. I remember it was a Thursday. We had to get it out. I had some ideas. He had some ideas. We have to pick the next single. I have to tell the rock stations. We have to put it in production for top 40 stations. And I got this book, which I thought was cute, right? I got the Yiddish for Dummies book. It's great, you know. Herbie Herbert, line one. Hey, Herbie, how you doing? What? How are you? In Yiddish. He starts talking to me in Yiddish. I'm like, herbie, I got the book. It's great, but you and I are about to have a really important conversation. It's three o' clock in the afternoon here in New York. We gotta decide now. The new Journey single, Buzz. He doesn't stop talking Yiddish for two minutes. Finally, he stops. He goes, rap. What the fuck? A nice Jewish boy like you can't learn a little Yiddish? I'm like, herbie, yeah, I get it. But this is a timely conversation. I know. Learn your Yiddish and call me back. Click, Buzz. This is rock. This is in order for me to get the Journey single. This is real stuff. I want people to know. This is not bullshit. In order for me to get the next Journey single out, I have to get. Go find the Yiddish book, learn two lines of Yiddish, call him back, read the Yiddish, and then he'll talk to me and we'll get the Journey single out. You can't make this shit up. That's the tip of the iceberg of the stuff that's in this book. It's nuts. You Know, this is the. It's a business where there's bowling in the hallways, water gun fights. A business meeting to discuss why, you know, the LA branch wouldn't be allowed to set their table on fire anymore at former CBS Records conventions. Right, right. Because that was our big thing, you know, we threw rolls in the knives and forks. It escalated into setting our table on fire in a ballroom in these hotel, you know, shows. We'd have dinner shows at night and the bands would play and we were the rowdy table. So we ended every night by setting our table on fire. We did this two years in a row. Somebody in New York finally figured out this is not a good idea, right? These people are setting a table on fire in a ballroom in a hotel room. There's a. It's a business meeting. We're the business meeting to discuss this fact, why we can no longer set our table on fire at former cbs, you know, you know, the next CBS record conventions. And fascinatingly, half the staff rebelled and wanted to know why not. I love that this is what this is. So I wanted to capture all of this because no one was going to believe it, you know, and one day when I'm not here anymore, hopefully this is book is still around and you can read all about it. It will be, because you can't believe it.

You know, I want to, in the time we have, get people to go nuts over what we alluded to. It's the Bob Dylan aspect, which I learned a lot more than I even knew in terms of your connection with him over the years. I mean, I knew obviously you worked with him, but I kind of always felt like, well, you know, he's Bob. He doesn't really work with anybody on anything but talk about that relationship.

Yeah, he. He does and he doesn't. I mean, Bob, first of all, for me, the two biggest artists that mean more to me than anything growing up are Bob Dylan and Keith Richards. Right. So it's Keith and the Stones and Bob Dylan changed my life as he did a lot of our lives in the 60s. I mean, he changed the culture. His music is allowing me as a young man going, wait a minute, you don't have to live in this square world anymore. Things are going to change and you can be a part of this change and you can think different and have new ideas on how to live life and et cetera, et cetera. So for me, helping him and having a relationship with him was huge. And it took me a few meetings to get used to it because again, you could talk to Bob for 30 seconds. And then you realize who you're talking to. And you know, and you can't help it. You shake your head, you go, bob Dylan. But he is very much the artist. Artist. He's like Picasso. He just paints. He doesn't think about promotion. He doesn't think about marketing. His mind isn't there. So he would come up with some ideas that are funny to me, but to him, you know, he doesn't know because he doesn't know, right? It's like, imagine the universe, okay? There's the sun and we're the planets, and we. We fly around the sun so we have a perspective of the universe. We're like, oh, there's planets behind us, there's planets in front of us, and there's the sun, okay? But Bob Dylan's the sun, right? He has no perspective. He's the sun, right? So he doesn't know about all this other stuff. So I would. Every time he'd have an album out, I'd call him and say, look, you know, I know you don't like to promote yourself. Somebody. Here's 20 ideas, right? And I remember, you know, Shot of Love. I'd heard the album was great. I called him in New York and I said, okay, Bob, this is going to be great. We're going to do great with this album. Here's 20 ideas. You know, I'm listing ideas. Nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm not going to do that, man. You know, it's because he told me, I said, okay, look, how's this? We don't promote you at all. You just show up on Scott Muni's shows. You know, Scott was a major league legend. You know, New York on wnew. You're just gonna show up at Scott's show. John Lennon did it. He just showed up. It was brilliant. You'll just show up. Oh, man. I don't like to push my music that way. Which I respected. Like, he didn't. He wants the music to do the talking. He doesn't want to, quote, unquote, promote it. Just. It's just not him, man. It's just. He just wants to paint, right? It's like, I just want to make this music. And I eventually got him to read about the book. I eventually got him, you know, got him to do, you know, an interview, which was a whole, you know, unworldly experience. But he's very mercurial and. But he'll listen. But it would be like, we go out to dinner and it's like, okay, we have to talk about this video. Oh, no, man. I just got back from Russia. They gave me an award which Russian poets, like, you know, Pushkin. This is a big deal. Poetry in Russia is a big deal. He goes, they just gave me an award. I was thrilled that they gave me an award in Russia for my poetry. He goes, rap. You got to start reading these Russian poets. He's got a list, right? I say, bob, you and I have to talk about the video. No, no, no, man. We'll talk about the video later. You need to get into these Russian poets. So these are the kind of conversations you could have with him. And one day he came in. We were just talking about being dads, right? I was like. I wrote in the book. I was like. It was the most fascinating conversation. Because I was like, bob, you know, I've got this one son, I got another on the way. What am I going to tell him? I mean, you know, the 60s are kind of wild in the 70s. And, you know. And he looked at me and he said, well, he goes, you know. Well, you know, Bob Dylan was. Well, you have a choice, you know. He said, my life is drugs, the women. It's all in the press. I'm busted. You know, he said, but you. You know, it's like rap. You have a choice. Tell them some things. You don't have to tell him everything. But me, you know, I'm busted right out. My whole life's in the press. And he was just talking to me as a guy. Hey, look, this was my life. I didn't have a choice. You have a choice. So now we're talking, you know, he's giving me advice, right? I mean, so we're just guys now. He's not Bob Dylan, you know, he told me the most amazing thing. He said, you know, the problem with me is when people meet me, they think they're meeting the lyrics. And that's exactly what happened to me when I first met him. Because that's all we know. You know the lyrics, right? You look at this guy and you think about all these lyrics. He said, look, I know how heavy the songs are. I wrote them, but those are songs. I'm a songwriter, but there's me, the human being, me, I'm me. Those are the songs. There's a difference. And people can't. Making the difference. Separate, separating it. When Jerry Garcia passed away and there was a funeral, Bob went. And a very famous promoter, John Schur, in town went. They're walking away from the funeral. And Garcia went through the whole Thing. Not as bad as Bob, but, you know, Garcia's God, and, you know, he was revered. And the fans would just think they're walking out of the funeral and Bob looks at John Sher and says, you want to know something? The guy that's lying in that coffin is the only person that knows what it feels like to be me. Whoa. Right. Whoa. Right. Because Bob has to deal with that every day of his life because he gets approached in odd ways. He can't help it. He's Bob Dylan. You know, good luck. Right? That's how it is. Oh, man.

Well, the book is fabulous. It takes you inside your life, but also inside the insecurities of artists, the creative processes.

It's.

You did a brilliant job with it, and I just love talking to you about stuff that I knew and stuff that I didn't know, which is so captured in your book. Congratulations on it. It's really.

I really appreciate it. First of all, it's easy talking to you. We're old friends, so, you know. But I'm a promotion man, so I'm going to mention the name. Better. I better. Okay. It's called Gliders Over Hollywood, which, if you read the book, you'll find out why it's called Gliders Over Hollywood. Just think of balsa wood gliders. Gliders Over Hollywood. It's easy peasy. You can go on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, just punch it in. Gliders Over Hollywood. It'll show up. If you have a local bookstore and you want to support them. If they don't have it, it's easily gotten for you.

You'll love it. And I love talking to your rap. I will leave you on one thought. I have one regret in my music radio career, and it was the fact that when Bob Dylan said, anybody want to do a shot of whiskey? And I and others backed off because we were like, we can't do this. This is the voice of a generation and I'll know I'll never have that chance again. But anyway, and he meant it.

By the way, this is Bob just being Bob. Right? Everybody want a shot of whiskey?

We were petrified.

Yeah, understood.

But rapper. So great to see you. Thanks for being on Take it a Walk.

Thanks for having me.

And congratulations.

Thanks again.

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