← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Rest in Peace Rob Reiner-Takin A Walk with An Icon-Replay Episode
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A
Taking a Walk.
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I'm Buzz Knight, and this is the Taking a Walk podcast. We are going to replay an episode with Rob Reiner. Now, like you, we are shocked at the loss of Rob and his wife Michelle. And it was a couple months back. Rob was promoting the Spinal Tap reboot. It was amazing. Clicking on the zoom. And there he was, right before my eyes, willing to talk about his past, his influences, his father, what his father meant to him. He was heartwarming, he was engaging. It was wonderful having him on. He has such an incredible body of work that he has left us, that we are grateful for. And I'm grateful that he took the time to be on the Taking a Walk podcast. Here's a replay. Rest in peace, Rob Reiner. Rob Reiner, welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast.
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A
Thanks for having me.
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B
So your life, you know, intersects everybody. So before we dig into Spinal Tap 2, the end continues, I have to ask you, if you could take a walk with someone, living or dead, who would it be? And where would you take a walk with them?
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A
That's a great question. You know, I think about my dad all the time, and he's, you know, he's in my head at every move I make. And there's a. There's a story that they tell. I don't remember because I was little. I think I was 8 years old, and I went up to that, my folks, and I said, you know, I want to change my name. And they thought, oh, this poor kid. He's worried about, you know, being Carl Reiner's son and, you know, living in the shadow and, you know, living up to and all that. And they said, well, what do you want to change your name to? And I said, Carl, because I loved him so much, and I wanted to be just like him, and I looked up to him, so I think I would take a walk with him if I could.
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B
Oh, that'd be incredible. Now, what did he think of Spinal Tap?
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A
He loved it. He loved it. I mean, you know, listen, he, you know, he was on the show of shows at Caesar during the 50s, and they did satire. They may, you know, they were doing satire of movies and television. And one of the things they did was a satire of a rock and roll act called the Three Haircuts. And there would be. Had these big, you know, kind of pompadour hairdos. And so he was always into that kind of stuff. And, you know, we. This is long time ago, and I was. I've said before, but we, you know, he was on television before we Owned a television and we actually bought one so we could watch him on television. Anyway, he loves satire. I mean, he, you know, if you listen the stuff he did with Mel brooks and a 2000 year old man and a lot of the stuff no, he loved, he loved Spinal Tap. And he was very, you know, very complimentary me. He even actually said. Because I was always trying to live up to him and I never thought I could do it. And I don't know that I have or I still. But he told me at one point, he says, you're a better director than I am. And I thought, wow, that's, that's pretty cool for him to say that. And I remember there was one year, the year that Spinal Tap came out in 1980, before he had done a movie called all of Me with Steve Martin. And you know, they have these top 10 lists at the end of every year they put the, you know, top 10 films and Spinal Tap and, you know, this is Spinal Tap and All of Me were on a ton of lists together. And I thought, wow, that's amazing. I don't think there's ever been in the history of the movie business that a father and son have had two films that they've directed that were in the top 10. So. And I don't think it's ever happened. So I was very proud of that.
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Outstanding. So bands evolve over time. They get more mature, they find new creative outlets. So if I was speaking to this guy, what was his name? Marty Deburgi.
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Marty de Bergi. Yeah, he, he, he was the director of the first film and the second one, the, the new one, the. The End Continuous, he directed that as well.
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B
What would he say about this band's evolution over time?
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A
Well, I think, you know, first of all, Marty's a huge fan of Spinal Tap. I mean, he goes way back to when he first saw them in Greenwich Village. And you know, he was like, couldn't be more thrilled to be able to get the chance to document this. At the time was supposed to be their final tour. Turns out that, you know, they have life after that. And Marty was very hope that it would trigger a bigger film career for him, that he would get a chance to make a studio movie. And in fact, he did. He got to do it was a sequel to a film that won a lot of Oscars, was with Meryl Streep and Dustin Hoffman. It was called Kramer vs. Kramer. And Marty did the sequel, which was Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Godzilla. Didn't do too well. No, no, it bombed. It bombed.
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So oh, my God.
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You know, he's been floundering since then and he got the opportunity to do the new one and he was like, thrilled beyond belief.
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B
Do you think when he evaluates though, the band's growth as artists, that he's seen them grow as artists?
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A
I think the beauty of a Spinal Tap is that they have not grown at all. They have not grown emotionally or musically. And I think that's their charm now. They have grown age wise and they are quite a bit older. But if you look around, you see Paul McCartney still out there doing it. Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger's still running around the stage in his 80s. You know, these bands want to keep going. They want to keep going. And as a matter of fact, in the second film, Derek Smalls, their bass player, wrote a. Had an idea for a song called Rockin in the Urn, which is all about what happens in the afterlife. And his contention was that you're still rocking, you know, wherever you are, you're still playing music.
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B
I love the book, A Fine Line Between Clever and Stupid.
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Between stupid and Clever. Actually, the line line is. Was from the first film, you know, they. That, that, that was a line. That's my favorite line in the first film was there's a fine line between stupid and clever.
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I love the various takes from the artist. I don't want to give it away, but I do want to, if with your permission. Sure. Look at how Don Henley weighs in on the. The Spinal Tap drummer stew, as we would call it. And he says, being a drummer alive is a victory. I haven't exploded.
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I mean, he, he's one of the few drummers that has survived. I mean, we, you know, Spinal Tap went through. I think it was 11 or 12 drummers, I'm not sure. 12, I think. And they actually have to have an audition to, you know, find a new drummer. Because the last drummer they had, Skippy Scuffleton, died from sneezing. He had a sneezing fit and he couldn't stop sneezing and he sneezed himself to death. And, you know, so they have to find a new drummer. And they put out, you know, a wide net. They're trying to, you know, see if there's anybody would come in and, and, and fill the bill. And they go to Questlove, you know, who's Jimmy Fallon's drummer, and eating from the Roots. They go to Chad Smith from the Red Hot Jelly Peppers and they also go to Lars Ulrich from Metallica. And they turn them down because none of them want to Die. They all would rather survive than play rock and roll. So they all turn them down and they have to hold auditions, and they wind up with a new drummer who. We'll see whether or not that drummer survives.
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I did go to a friend of ours, Ed Begley Jr. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know you have some history with him as John Stumpy.
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Yeah, John Stumpy Peeps. He was there drummer when they were the Thamesmen. And they had their first moderate hit called Give Me Some Money. And we show that it's interesting, but Ed just did a little part in a film, in a short film that my daughter Romy wrote and directed and acted in. And so it was funny. Romy was trying to figure out what he should wear, and they did a FaceTime, and they looked in his closet, and she said, I want that sweater. There was a specific sweater. And Ed said, oh, that's my favorite sweater. I love that. I've had it for over 50 years. And it was knitted for him by Annette O', Toole, who was married to Michael McKeon. So, you know, they had. So when we all got together, then Annette and Romy, they bond over knitting because Romy loves to knit, too.
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So I asked that. I said, if. If. If Stumpy had been interviewed by Rob Reiner, what do you think the conversation would be like? And he said, and I quote, I knew that was one dangerous hoe. I never thought it would end like this. And I asked him, too. I said, so what do you think of the masters of. Of tap these days? And he says, as for the masters of tap, I'm laying low as I owe each of them a great deal of money, but if they're willing to forgive and forget, I'm available for grip work or craft service. And he says, for the record, doing craft service on their next project is a sincere offer. Grip work is a euphemism that's probably frowned upon by HR these days.
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A
Ed is so funny. You know, we're talking about him, and I'm going to show you something. Show you, because we're on a podcast. You can't see it, but I have a book here that Ed wrote, and it's sitting right there on my desk that, you know, and it's sitting there, right there. Ed's book.
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B
He's the best, for sure. So, as a master of directing people and giving them space, can you describe the joy of collaboration in this process for the new Spinal Tap?
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Well, to me, this. That's the most fun for us is that we had, first of All a sequel. It's like 41 years after the first one. So, I mean, there's a time has gone by and we, you know, we've worked together in different iterations, you know, over the years, but we hadn't really worked in, like, 50 in the last 15 years. None of us. But the minute we got back together, it's like old friends, you know, you pick up right where you left off. And Chris Guest used to call it schneideling, which is this byplay back and forth that you do. And we fell right back into it. It's like, you know, jazz musicians that just know how each other moves and we all can, you know, schnadle with each other and they fell back right into their musical connection. And it was fun. That was the most fun is. Is. Is to be able to, you know, do sht with people who are on the same level as you are and have the same frames of reference and. And. And know how to lay out, know when to come in, all of that.
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It's effortless, isn't it?
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It is. It is. And when we did the first one and the second one, all the dialogue is improvised, and that's comfortable for us. We enjoy doing that. I mean, you know, people say, oh, my God, the first film you made and there was no script and it was improvised. I said, yeah, because that's my training, and that's the training of the guys I'm working with. We're all. That's what we do. It's like. Like I say, it's like jazz musicians. You pick up a bass, you pick up the sax, the guy plays p, somebody's playing drums, and you just fall in and start doing it. And it was. To me, it was a lot easier to do that than to do a scripted film where I had to figure out camera angles and. And, you know, is this tracking is the continuity and all that stuff. This was easy for me.
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Do you remember the first point in your life that music had an impact on you?
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Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I'm the first. I'm the first generation that grew up on rock and roll, and that was in the 50s. And, you know, it's why it exploded, because young people connected immediately. Going back to Bill Haley in the Comets or any of them, but Little Richard, Chuck Berry, you know, fast, dominant. I don't, you know, the Everly Brothers. I don't care who you listen, Jerry Lee Lewis, all these people spoke to us and we loved. I had stacks and stacks of 45 records that you played and I, right, like in Diner, I could tell you it was on the flip side of, of a song, you know. And so that, that was the stuff that, that got to me. Right. And then of course in the 60s, there was another real explosion that happened in Great Britain and also in the west coast, in San Francisco and in Los Angeles. And I was part of that scene too. So I, you know, I, I, I, I grew up on this stuff and there's been a lot of cross pollination between Rock World and that's why people said, well, how could you be so aware of what happens to rock musicians and tour? Because first of all, those guys are musicians, they've been on tours and stuff. But I hung out with these people. I hung out with Janis Joplin, I hung out with Mama Cass Elliott, you know, these are the people that, you know, David Crosby from Crosby, Silson, Ash, and these are the people that we hung out with. And so it was just natural. Janice Joplin would come on stage a number of times when I was working at the Committee, which is a improv group from San Francisco. So this was part of our world. And, and I'll, you know, I, you know, to me that was, that's my background, you know, first generation to grow up on television and rock and roll. We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast smart talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna and I asked him, how can companies use AI to its fullest potential to create smarter business? My one advice to them pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side. For example, if anybody has more than 10% of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30% more productive today with the goal of being 70% more productive. Yeah. So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say you can leverage what we did. We are happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process. Because the biggest change is not technology. It's getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit IBM.com smarttalks. And Doug. Oh, what a horrible call. Hey, ref. Open your eyes, ref. You're really not gonna call that? Come on. Hey, ref, why didn't you customize your.
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B
Do you mind if we share favorite protest songs?
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A
Sure, go ahead.
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B
Mine is the version of Blowing in the Wind by Jim Neighbors.
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Oh, my God. You're talking about an episode that I did of Gomer Pyle where I sang Blown in the Wind with Lee French, who was also in the committee, and Chris Ross, who was also in the committee. The three of us as hippies were singing Blowing in the Wind. It's one of my. My proudest moments in in television all right, I'm cheating.
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That was not my favorite protest song.
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I know, I know. What was it, though?
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Mine was by Phil Oaks and it was called here's to the State of Richard Nixon.
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Right, right. Phillips did some great protest songs. You know, Country Joe and The fish have 1, 2, 3, 4. What are we fighting For? You know, Don't Give a Damn. Next stop, Vietnam. And, you know, one of my favorites is for. For what It's Worth, which is, you know, the Buffalo Springfield. Does something happen in here? What it is ain't exactly clear. That was, to me, is like an anthem.
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B
So were there new challenges in directing a mockumentary in today's comedy and media land versus back in the 80s?
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A
Well, it's different. I mean, you know, we. I use the 16 millimeter camera. I had one 16 millimeter camera and that's all I had. Now I'm used, you know, with the. You know, I've had a couple of digital cameras and so, you know, I had a lot of more coverage that I could get. And I tried to not mirror what I'm. You know, we set a certain standard of documentary type entertainment. And you see it in Parks and Rec and Abbott elementary, the Office. Even Ricky Gervais talks about how he took from Spinal Tap and created the Office with that kind of documentary feel. But it is evolved. It's evolved with all these supposedly reality shows. They're not reality at all. I would argue that Spinal Tap is more reality than some of these reality shows. So there's a tendency to try to mirror how they do these documentari things now. But my gut feeling was to. Marty is not very much like Spinal Tap, not making a lot of growth. I'm thinking that Marty didn't grow all that much either. And so I try to keep it sort of in the vein of what he did the first time.
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What is so incredible is so many of the storylines when you really dig into them in, you know, Spinal Tap are actually, you know, true to life. Extensions of the rock and roll world.
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Yes. I mean, that was the. That was the thing that people were so stunned by. You know, there were things that we took from experiences we had. There were things we took from articles from the newspaper. One of the things we had was the original. The original? Not the original, but the. One of the keyboard players we have is a guy named John Sinclair, which we had in this 20 minute demo reel that I put together to try to sell the film. And he had to make a choice. We were going to start shooting the film or he was going to. He got a real gig with a group called. They were doing an album called Obama Knock. And it was. Oh, God, I can't. Oh, Uriah Heep. That was the name of the band, Uriah Heap. And he went and showed. He said, that's a real gig. So he went and did that. But during the tour, he came back and talked to us one time about this weird booking they got in a military base. And so he said, oh, great. We put that right in the film. So anything that would. That seemed interesting. Getting lost backstage was something that happened to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. The whole idea of the backstage rider, what's provided backstage, that's something we took out of an article we read in Rolling Stone about Van Halen called the Endless Party. And in their case, they did. They said, no Brown M M's. They didn't want any Brown M M's backstage. So we had that whole thing. So we took from. From what we were. Were presented with.
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And you went out and did some research on bands such as Judas Priest, right? I think the other one was Saxon. And, yeah, Harry.
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Harry spent some time with Saxon. We all went to a concert with Judas Priest. The guys also went and saw ACDC at another concert. And we just took from what we. I mean, the one thing that I got from, you know, going to see Judas Priest is I thought I was having a heart attack. The sound was so loud and intense and the drum and the bass were so heavy that it would, like. It was pounding on my chest. So I thought, okay, that's the. That, you know. England's loudest band. Spinal Path.
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Breaking the law.
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Breaking the law, yeah. Oh, my God.
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B
Now, did some artists, when the first Spinal Tap came out, they did not get the joke. Is that correct?
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That's true. You know, Ozzy. Ozzy Osbourne, God rest his soul. I mean, he was a little bit upset. He said, this is not nice. They're. They're making fun of us. I mean, the. You know, what are they doing? You know. And Axl Rose, I mean, we got a story from Slash, played with Guns N Roses, and he said Axl Rose was very upset because he thought that's not. That's not the way we. We have real music and we're, you know, we real. We're important. We shouldn't. You know, we shouldn't be talking about. And I think, oh, Steven Tyler, also from Aerosmith, didn't like what we did. But I think over the years they've come to understand that, you know, it was Fun. And like I said, we grew up on rock and roll. We all love rock and roll and we're all satirists. So it's. You try to find the way that you can blend satire with, you know, and make, make fun of the thing that you love.
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B
Yeah, Spinal Tap's always been about. You have poking fun at fame and excess. What does the rock, rock, rock mockumentary say about celebrity culture now?
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A
Well, I mean, you know, because of social media and, you know, TikTok and Instagram and all that stuff, everybody's a star. I mean, everybody wants to be a star. And they put themselves out there in some kind of semi documentary form, in some realistic cinema verite style to connect with people. That's what they try to do. It is one of the best ways to connect because it feels real. It feels like you're, you know, you're really experiencing something and everybody's doing it. You know, I remember seeing a documentary years ago called We Live in Public. I don't know if you ever saw that, but it's. It was done by the guy who initially created, before Facebook, there was. What was it called? It was called MySpace. MySpace. MySpace. He had created MySpace. And he talked. He had, you know, left that world and he was talking, he says, everybody says, you know, like, you know, Marshall McLuhan, you know, everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame, but we've gotten to a point where Everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame every day. You know, that's what we've evolved to. And I think, you know, it's. It's this documentary style that lets us in on supposedly who we are. But you never, you don't really get to know who people are.
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B
Are you fascinated how cult movies like Spinal Tap ultimately turn into not only cult movies, but into classics?
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A
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's, it's shocking to me. It's, it's stunning because when we first came out, nobody. People didn't get it. They didn't know what we were doing. It's a classic line you hear from the, the theater. You know, satire is what closes on Saturday night and we just almost closed. People thought it was a real band. They thought, why would I make a movie about a band nobody's ever heard of? And why wouldn't I do something about the Rolling Stones or the Beatles or something? So they didn't get it. And it took many, many years. I think it was the, you know, it was home entertainment. It was the videotapes and CDs, and people started you know, catching wind of it. And then over the years, over many years, it became this thing where the Library of Congress puts it in the National Film Registry, and it's in the Oxford English Dictionary, goes to 11. And all this stuff becomes part of the culture. And there's no way in a million years that you'd think that you'd have this kind of impact. There's just no way. You're just making a film that you think is funny and you think real, have a few laughs, and maybe somebody will like it. There's no way you think it's going to be what it. What it turned out to be. What are your.
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B
Some of your favorite cult classics?
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A
Well, I. There's a lot that. I mean, I like a lot of. You know, give me the. Give me what you consider a cult classic. And I'll tell you, because to me, if I like a film, I don't think of it as cult classic. You know, I'm just like, I like a film. But what would you consider a cult classic? I know you say Rocky Horror show and stuff like, I'm not a big Rocky Horror show fan, but give me another example of a cult classic, and I'll tell you if I like.
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B
I'll mention it because you referred to it earlier. Diner.
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A
Oh, yeah, I know. I love Diner. And it's funny because Diner and Spinal Fap came out the same year. And I remember being on a plane with Barry Levinson as a good friend, and we were talking about these films that we had made, and we were trying to get, you know, get somebody to promote it and all this stuff. And we had no idea that, you know, to him, it was a very personal film about growing up in Baltimore. To me, it was this personal thing of this integration between rock and roll and. And improvisation. So it was just things that we thought, hey, I like this. I don't know if anybody else will like it, but, yeah, Diner's great. I love Diner.
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B
So I know the theaters are important to you as a creator. The fact that, you know, this Covid kind of obviously knocked everybody off kilter. It knocked that business off its kilter. Talk to those listening about, for you, as a creator, as an artist, how important it is to go to the theater and see any movie. This movie in particular.
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A
Well, I think that, you know, if when you're looking at comedies or horror movies, horror thrillers, those you want to share with people because it intensifies the experience, there's nothing better than being with a group of people and laughing at something and that's infectious. And the same thing with a. With a thriller or a horror movie. You can't experience that at home. People watch it at home, they put it on pause, they go to the bathroom, they go get something to eat. And it's not that same experience. I can tell you something that it really bugs me, and that is when I was doing all in the Family. This is back in the, you know, in the 70s. And by the way, a lot of young people never even heard of all in the Family. They don't even know what it is. But for those who don't, it was the number one show in America for five years straight. Every single week was number one. And we were a country of about 200 million at the time. And every single week, 40 to 45 million people watched the show. And they watched it at the same time. They had to, because There was no DVR, there was no TiVo, there was no video cassettes. You had to watch it when it was on. That meant that there was 40 to 45 million people having a shared experience and being able to talk about it. And it had an impact on the way people viewed it and the way they talked about it. Now we're a country of about 340 million people, and if you have a show that's seen by 10 million people, that's considered a big hit, and they don't even watch it at the same time, they're streaming it, they're watching. Don't tell me what happened. I didn't see that episode yet. I'm still on season two, whatever it is. And so you don't have that communal, shared experience. I think that's important. It's important for theater, and it's important for movies to have that. And you're right, Covid had a big impact on it, and so did streaming. Streaming has had a tremendous impact on it. So, you know, I'm hoping people will have it. They'll enjoy it. I know they'll have a better experience, and they'll enjoy it. If they go, they go to the theater.
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B
So two more questions, Rob. First of all, how do you want fans, both longtime followers and new audiences, to walk away after seeing the sequel?
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A
I want him to say, I. I had a great time. And here's it's something interesting. We screened both, you know, we screened the. The Sequel for an audience of recruited, you know, people, regular people. Half the audience had seen the first film. The other half had never seen the first film. And the reaction was exactly the same. The cards came back and said, exactly. They enjoyed it equally. And so. So hopefully I'm making a film that stands on its own. Even if you haven't seen the first one, if you have seen the first one, there are some references you'll get that you wouldn't get if you didn't. But I want. I feel obligated to put something out there that's a piece of entertainment that stands on its own. I read this book by Frank Capra many years ago where in the days when. That's when you went to the theater and he said, said, you're asking people to pay money to sit in a darkened room with strangers, and you're asking them to pay attention for two hours. You better have something to show them. And so I'm hoping that people come away saying, yeah, I had a great experience. I liked the first one. I liked the second one. And if you hadn't seen the first one, you'll still like the second one.
- [33:45]
B
So, in closing, beyond Spinal Tap, are there stories you're excited about, additionally, that you're working on now that you can share?
- [33:52]
A
I have one story that I've been playing around with. It's going to sound crazy, but I've been playing around with it for over 50 years, about 55 years as it is, because it came out of a sketch that I worked on when I was writing for the Smothers Brothers. This was back in the 60s, in 68, 69. And I was writing. Steve Martin was a writing partner with me. We were together. And Carl Gottlieb, who wrote Jaws, we wrote this sketch, was a Christmas sketch. And Tom and Dick's mothers and brothers, they came out and they said, you know, they say, he's falling in love is wonderful, wonderful. So they say, who are they? Who are these people that say these things? They say this. They say. So we had a thing where it was an office, and on the office door, it said, us. And you walk, you know, you go in there and there's Tom and Dick at typewriters, manual typewriters, typing out, look before you leave. And he rips it out, he goes, ding, ding. He hits a bell. You know, a messenger comes in, he says, take it down. Haste makes waste. Ding, ding, ding. Take it down. Absence makes the heart grow redder. Fonder. Fonder, yeah. They take it down and they keep, you know, giving it to the messenger. And then he says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And he starts to hit the bell, and the other guy stops him and says, no. He says, what are you doing? We can't send that down. He says, why not? He says, remember the last guy we sent that down with? Remember what happened to him? They're not ready for it yet. And that was the end of the sketch. And I always thought, what if there was some kind of modern. In this modern world, that message came down, what would happen? What would happen? And so this is the basis of something I've been working on for a while. I haven't gotten a script that I like, but the trick is to find a way to do it that's real, that has humor in it and also is emotional and has this philosophical thing to it. So I'm going to see if I can pull that one off.
- [36:00]
B
Well, if I'm fortunate enough to talk to you again, I'll ask you about the famous fart joke that you guys created.
- [36:05]
A
Oh, yeah, no, we were the first one. We were the first ones. Steve Martin and I wrote a sketch for the Smothers Brothers where Pat Paulson, who was an actor on the show, was. He was the president of the Acme Novelty Company and he was demonstrating all these little gadgets and gimmicks and, you know, there was, you know, the pucker gum and the dribbled glass and the. And the thing where your finger gets stuck in the thing. And then at one point he sits down and you hear a big, big like this. And he goes, oh, gee, they slipped a whoopee cushion in under me when I wasn't looking. And he gets up and there was no whoopee cushion there. So it was the. You know, we're very proud of the fact that we wrote the first fart joke that was ever on national television. See the movie, get the book. I'm grateful beyond belief.
- [36:55]
B
Rob Reiner to speak with you on Taking a Walk.
- [36:57]
A
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:19]
B
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- [38:13]
A
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- [40:51]
B
Is an iHeart podcast.
- [40:53]
A
Guaranteed human.