Rashad Tobaccowala (3:23)

Thank you very much, Buzz, and thank you for your kind words and for inviting me back.

Unknown (3:28)

It's always great to see you. So you recently like I attended the Consumer Electronics show, and other than some sore feet from 15 to 20,000 steps a day, are there any particular takeaways that you can bring to this conversation from your visit to CES 2025?

Rashad Tobaccowala (3:51)

Yes. So I would say that there are three big takeaways. The first one clearly is, not surprisingly, everything had AI in it, on it, and even if it wasn't, it was going to be AI. So very much like your website will now be called buzzknight AI. So everything was going to basically be AI, but this AI was actually increasingly real. And the first thing really is that AI continues to spread everywhere. And we are actually now moving from generative AI, which obviously continues to exist, which is used obviously in the creative and other forms, whether it's ChatGPT, et cetera, to two different kinds of AI. One, which you're beginning to see, which is agentic AI, where AI does some work for you versus just provide, you know, some writing. And then what we're beginning to see is physical AI with robots and other kinds of things. So one was the spread of AI. The second one I think is you're continuing to basically see every industry is now increasingly starting to become a technology industry and you have everything from, I believe it was one of the Japanese. I don't know whether it was Skyrin or Sapporo that actually had a product that used some form of technology to make you feel that you were eating salt when you were not eating salt across the board. I sense what's beginning to happen is, and these are four words that I use which are not my own, but it's basically from Brian Cooley who works at cnet, that technology that is really good isn't technology. It's increasingly just what works. And what works is something that is one. It is intensely transparent, where you don't think about the technology, you just get the benefits of it. It's very intimate, so it knows you. It's a better way of saying personalized. It's very intuitive, so you know how to use it. And it is constant, so it's always there. And more and more it's becoming like that. Everything from variable objects to obviously, the phone, that's the second thing. And the third, which is also happening is our entire industry has been built increasingly on two ways of interfacing with people. One is through search. So increasingly, you know, whether it's search and including, you know, ChatGPT is search, and then the other one is through streams. So we see streams, it's TikTok streams, Facebook streams, et cetera. I think we're going to have a third one which we began to see, which is conversation. And so we're going to increasingly converse very much like Scarlett Johansson, as her does in the movie, her as sort of a voice. So it's a conversation core. Media of podcasting is actually going to be the next way people are sort of interacting. So you're going to search for the stuff, stuff is going to be streamed, and then there's stuff that's going to be conversational. And I think AI and a lot of modern technology is going to be conversational, because I can't think of something more intimate, intuitive, transparent and constant than conversation.

Unknown (7:34)

When you think of the content creators who all over the place, no matter what the business, whether it's media entertainment, are fearful of artificial intelligence, what would you say to them as a baseline opportunity for them to embrace change rather than be so fearful of it?

Rashad Tobaccowala (8:03)

I think there are a couple. One is there is a reason to be, I would say, worried. And the reason to be worried, obviously, is all these machines are training on our intellectual capital without in many cases paying for it. Now, some people are making negotiations. Things like the Financial Times and Excel Springer have made negotiations. And others have decided to go to court, like the New York Times. But there are new technologies and new companies. Like a gentleman called Bill Gross, who started Idealab, has started something called Prorata. And he basically said, hey, Richard, can I get all your content? And if I make money, we'll share it. Half. Half. Okay. So the first part of it is this is a new world order. And if I am a creative, I would think of the following three tactics, tactic number one is how do I monetize as much as possible what people are eating from me, they are going to eat. The second one is try to figure out a way to put as much of your stuff out there. Because in effect, in the future of conversation, if people basically go today and ask Chachi PT vocally tell me about Rashawn Tobacco Walla, the answer that'll come back will actually make me feel pretty good because I've let them eat my website, not my book, they've let them eat my website, my free substack. So I put out a lot of free stuff that they can eat on and that allows me to appear proper. So the whole idea is, how are you represented if you're a brand? You know, there's a friend of mine, Pete Blackshaw, who has a company called BrandRank AI. How does your brand show up over the in these seven different engines? ChatGPT, et cetera. Lord. So second is, one is monetize what you can. Second is try to understand that this is the new interface of discovery, where people are going to figure out what your brand and discovery is and feed it. And the third one is, think that if you came out of school today and you had these technologies, what would your career look like? So reinvent your career. Because the reality of it is every time there's been a new enhancement of technology, the really good, creative people have honed and practiced their craft, whether it was the birth of radio and then television and then Adobe Photoshop and everything else. So the idea is you can't be frozen in time. The world's worst thing is to basically A, not accept that this is real, B, not adapt, embrace and complement these new technologies. And three is not to spend some time, at least to reimagine what your career and what you do looks like. Because what I basically told people is there are three key things to this. AI, in many cases, is going to save money. It's going to be efficiency. But the efficiency doesn't have to only be that the person who hires you gets you for less. It's you can do more for less. Also think about that. So there's efficiency, there's obviously effectiveness, which is you can be more impactful. But the third one is existential risk or existential opportunities. How do you reimagine your business? And a big part of my new book called Rethinking Work is we keep thinking about work the way it was in 2019, but the way it was in 2019 was bullshit. It shouldn't have been that way in 2019. So why do you want to go back to 2019? Because the future doesn't fit in the containers of the past. And 2019 is the past.

Unknown (11:55)

And you just highlight. Certainly one of my favorite reasons for going to ces. It's really to look at the future and not be frightened by it. To be aware and then to then be prepared on how to react and adapt and learn.

Rashad Tobaccowala (12:12)

Absolutely. And as someone who has been fortunate, when I was working in my full time job, and therefore I both had access and the budgets, I am somebody who's had the opportunity of going to everything from TED to CES to Davos to just about everything. There is nothing like cesar, because it's 150,000 people from all over the world, small companies to large companies, people who should be there and people who should not be there, in midst of alcohol, drinks and gambling, taking a risk on the future. And I find that's really cool. And in fact, I had the opportunity to speak to 140 people from a company called Novartis, whose president had brought 140 doctors and medical practitioners and pharmacists and marketers to the Consumer Electronics Show. And his thing is, here is where the future is taking place, and the companies that are most valuable were born here. And we should be here because we want to be among the most valuable companies. And if healthcare is changing, we need to be where healthcare is changing. And healthcare is more likely to change outside our industry than just inside the healthcare industry. It's an interesting way of thinking about it. And that is, I think, what a lot of people don't recognize is we cling on to the past, though we want to thrive in the future. And my basic belief is the past is pretty good parts of it. So I call it the roots. Figure out what the roots are, drop the rest and then take wing.

Unknown (13:54)

Well, we all have to dream. And the beautiful part about CES is the dreaming part. For so many people who are there who are trying to find it in their own individual businesses, and for so many who are dreamers who have created, just that walk in Eureka park is full of dreamers. So I think the absence of dreamers more regularly in our our society and our businesses make CES even more critical. For the dreaming aspect. Would you agree with that?

Rashad Tobaccowala (14:28)

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that is something. Buzz, you've done really well. You thought of this podcast. You dreamt about it, right? We chatted and I was fortunate to be one of your first guests. And it was, you know, people could have talked to you and said, what's wrong with you? Right? And now you've got two of them, you know, partnering with iHeartRadio and stuff like that. And you dreamt. Now, sometimes dreams are visions that take you in the right place. Sometime dreams are nightmares that take you backwards. Sometimes dreams are delusions. But, you know, you have to start somewhere. And sometimes dreams become reality and make a better future, which has happened for you, and it happens for a lot of people. But if you don't dream, then you get stuck, right? And the reality of it is you do need to take these chances. And that's what I find about CES and talking to a lot of people, is you get inspired to take chances. And to me, the future, and I'm going to write about this, I began to realize that almost everything that we end up doing is about chance, change, and choice. We need to take chances. People give us chances, sometimes good chances, bad chances. We're living in a world of change, and we've got to decide what choice are we going to make about change and what choices we select. So it's change, chance and choice and everything else is not part of living. As I basically say, the day we stop changing is the day we die. And even then, we sort of decay. But now inside a grave or inside a crematorium. But as long as you're living, to me, living is an act of change and an act of creativity and an act of chance.

Unknown (16:25)

I'm so grateful for your touch on things that has been so instrumental in helping me see things differently, certainly for these podcasts and the way I think about them. I want to ask you, though, going back in your career, you have this gentle touch that is so welcoming and collaborative and engaging and kind. Were you ever a cattle prod push at an earlier point in your career?

Rashad Tobaccowala (17:01)

I wasn't. But I did have bosses who were cattle prod at Push. I had clients who were cattle prodded Push. And I began to understand both the benefits of cattle prod and push. And there are some benefits of those. And I also began to say, hey, can we get those benefits without some of the bad downsides, which is leaving people feeling bad about themselves, feeling sometimes bullied, feeling sometimes inadequate. And I turned it around and I basically said, what's good about them is they want a goal and they have a sense of urgency, and they believe to get to their goal in a sense of urgency that they have to basically do it with a threat. And my belief is urgency is important. Having a goal is important, but could you do it with a, instead of a thread, with instead some form of a attraction that you are not running away from something, but you're running to something. And that to me basically meant, and I wrote about this is a having clarity and telling people where we're going, but at the same time giving people a sense of energy that they can actually do it, if that makes sense. And then third is being generous at providing them with resources, including training, so they can go do it. And what I found is when you are, when you give people clarity or you work with them for clarity and you give them energy and then belief and generosity, two out of three people will take it and one out of three people won't. It simply means that other one out of three people are not right for your company or for the job. Not that they're not right people, they're just not right for the company or the job. And you can discover that without yelling and screaming at them. Okay? Because if you yell and scream, what might happen is one out of the three that are not that good might continue to do what they have to do because they're scared that they're not that good. And one of the three who are really good are so good they don't have to take this shit and they leave. Right? What I've always basically told people is I've never, ever, ever believed that we're in a world where companies hire talent. I've always basically believe we live in a world where talent chooses companies and people say you're mad. And I guess I realized why I was mad because I was thinking about talent that's very good. And I've always believed that talent that's very good has choices and talent that isn't very good sometimes does not have choices. You can yell at those people and they'll stay because they're cattle. But the other people basically say, we're not a cow, we're a five argy beef. We can basically sell ourselves for more and do less and make more money and be treated specially and be massaged while these clowns yell and scream and prod. And that's my whole basic belief is if you're world class, why do you have to yell and scream and prod? You should be able to just speak and people should understand and as importantly, you should be very open when you're yelling and screaming that then people don't yell back and scream back at you, which they won't because they're so scared of you. And Actually, the most you learn is when people actually don't yell and scream back at you. But when people come to you, you know, Baz, you might come to me and say, rishad, I think you're wrong on the following four things. And because we have a nice conversation all the time, you feel very free to come around and say, hey, I'm not sure these things are right, which allows me to actually grow. But if all I'm doing is I'm yelling at you, one, you're scared to tell me that. The other is, I hope he dies and fails. I'm not going to tell him anything. So that's what I always say. People who yell and scream often have not been trained well. Not that they're bad people, they're not been trained well, and in many cases they're deeply insecure. So I basically say when someone screams, you're hearing the roar of emptiness and insecurity. That's all you're earring. You're not earring leadership.

Buzz Knight (21:22)

We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.

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Rashad Tobaccowala (24:11)

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Buzz Knight (24:19)

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Buzz Knight (24:41)

Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.

Unknown (24:45)

You know you believe in a multifaceted multimedia immersive of approach to things with experiences. The way you write your weekly blog is an example of that. And on display at CES and then outside of CES is this this little place called the Sphere in Las Vegas. Yeah, I don't know if you've made it over there, but what's your take on the future of immersive experiences that are so on display at the Sphere?

Rashad Tobaccowala (25:23)

So I've had the opportunity to be at this Sphere twice. Once at this CES and once within the first three, four weeks that it opened. I have not been for a U2 concert or an Eagles concert. Both times I saw Postcards from the Earth, which is the current show that's going on. And the first time I went is because I heard about it. So I bought tickets for my wife and daughters and we did it. And the second time I went is because I'm on the board of the company that helps create it. And they had some prospects and clients there. They invited me as a board director and I got a behind the scenes look at it. And I obviously believe enough in experiences to be on the board of a company that has created that and a lot of other things. So let me tell you a little bit about experiences. I think we talk about omnichannel. I think the world of marketing is moving from omnichannel to multidimensional. We are starting to move from technology stacks to experience stacks. There are all kinds of experiences of which there are four potential dimensions of experiences. One form of experience is the virtual experience. The other form of experience is a twin experience where you think you're there and feels more real than virtual. A third form of experience is the real world. And a fourth form of experience is an immersive, complete experience, as happens with Unreal Engine and a whole bunch of other things. You put those together and you see some of those happening at the sphere, which is a great physical experience. It's a form of an immersive experience, and it's a real world experience too. But a lot of people have, for instance, used another example and they say these things. I was at a presentation recently and someone said this stuff is for the 100%. It is in some ways and not in other ways. So if you look at this sphere where the cheapest you can get a ticket is $86, right? It's not cheap for one ticket. And if you start doing VIP tickets and add stuff, it goes up to about $200 right next to me. And I use it a lot. So I'm clearly one of the minority. I have a Apple Vision Pro, which everybody basically believes is dead on arrival. It's not dead on arrival. The Apple Vision Pro is amazing because I believe it's where the future of work and the future of television is going to occur. And I use it more like the future of television. And it's a very expensive future of television. It's $3,000 actually, by the time you're done insuring it and paying the taxes, $4,000 we have to insure for $29 a month because it's so expensive. But I use it everywhere in my travels as my form of television. It's incredible. In fact, sometimes at home, and I have the luck of having an amazing 85 inch television, sometimes I want to watch it on that versus that, which is why. But everywhere I travel on planes, it's brilliant. But the other thing that I do is when I'm Again, working and I'm on a plane or I'm outside home. At home I have, as I talk to you, I have an XDR display, these amazing beautiful displays from Apple. But on the road I have also a great display. I have a Mac Pro, the top of the line Mac Pro with the Retina display. But I put out this little thing and what I begin to have is multiple screens in front of me. It allows me to take that screen and make it a huge screen in front of me, right? And I can do a lot of different things. I could also do this thing where I could have the multiple screen in front of me while I have a video running, watching like cnn. So just like I'm doing today, I'm basically doing this, I'm talking to you. I've got the presidency thing, the CNN at the back, I can do the exactly same thing. But that's part of the future of work. But the real future of work and the future of television, especially the future of work, if people don't understand it, I mention it in my book is I tell everybody, hey listen, this is expensive. It sounds very elitist. The price will come down just like it has come down for phones and a bunch of other things. Go to an Apple Store, ask for a 30 minute demo of Vision Pro. Just ask for a 30 minute demo of Vision Pro. And when you have that demo, ask them to show you the Alicia Keys rehearsal in Spatial Video. Once you see that, just remember what I just said, that's the future of work, right? You have absolutely no clue that you're not in the same room as with her. You're in the room with her, right? She's walking around you, she's talking to you, she's talking to her sound people, et cetera. And you think you're right there, that today costs $3,400 a person. Expensive. Okay? Once it's less than $1,000 a person, companies will buy it for everybody. Because my basic belief is it's much cheaper than real estate. Right? And that is what most leaders don't understand. You don't. Most of these people talk about these things like AI. And my stuff is, hey, by the way, if AI really spreads, you're going to require all your employees, but they're going to actually require them to work 75% of the time, not 100% of the time. So have you started thinking about fractionalized employees? When you're basically thinking about a company that starts today to compete in a modern world with modern technology and AI, which Company outside of a dentist's office will make people come down five days a week to the office. Zero. You would never start a company like that. That includes this. Jeff Bezos with Amazon Day Zero. Starting a company would never started that. That's what I told them. And they started clapping. Right. So my basic belief is this return to the office thing is first, the wrong question. That the question should be, how do I maximize the benefits of in person interaction? The second one to a great extent is you should basically be asking a much more important question, which is, how do I reimagine my business? And is it that the reason people are not coming back to the office? There are lots of good reasons for them to come back to the office, but there's also another reason they're not coming back to the office. They are not coming back to the bosses. Because we have entered an age of de bossification. Stop being a boss. Learn to be a leader. If you don't know how to manage and inspire people over a screen, you cannot be a leader. You just cannot be a leader today. And the reality of it is, if you need to be looking over someone's physical body to be a leader, you are so old school, you should go back to basically trying to basically help people in the days of cargo ships. And that's as soon as I show people what's happening with the future of everything, aging population, declining populations, marketplaces, technology, and then I say, what are we doing? The whole focus and emphasis on return to the office is a total lack of. It's got nothing to do with the future of work. Nothing. And that's what Business Insider and all these people are writing about. I said, like, who in the world even understands where this is going? Which is why I hope my book is going to basically either wake people up or they're going to think I'm becoming. Become totally demented and delusional, which is also very likely. But, but, but the way for the, the CEOs who've read my book say, oh, shit, right? Because what happens is I just say, here are different ways of looking at it. You are different frameworks. But I don't say there is a way. I don't say there is one way for the future of work, right? I said, actually, if I were running a company for a certain group of people, I would ask them to come to the office five days a week for the first six months they joined the company. But that means for those people who joined the company for six months, I'd say I needed to come for these reasons after that, this is the flexibility, right? And among those who tell me, hey, I've got some huge personal or health reason I can't do it, I'd make exceptions, but I'd say the standard is this. For these reasons. And once I've got you trained, indoctrinated, built relationships, networks, understood the company, understood our history, understood all the stuff that comes, which is easier to do that way. It's like boot camp. Right now. You're going to be trained as by, you know, mission impossible agents. You've gone through training. Now you go out and do your spying and other work everywhere else. Okay? Then we come back maybe once every quarter or once every month, they figure it out more. You know what all that requires? It requires leaders to actually lead, to work really hard to reimagine their businesses. So you're the same company that says, I want to be agile and I want to keep my costs under control. And then they say, we don't like flexible work and we want to pay a lot of money in real estate. Which one do you want? Now, the good news is, Buzz, because I don't have a job, I can speak like this without fear of being fired, because I don't have a job. Okay? But once I. And I of course, don't speak like, I speak even kinder, if that makes sense. I just say, like, I don't understand why you would do it like this. I would doubt if I had a job today. And the good news, I had a job for a lot of time. And in effect, those are some of the things that I find really, really unusual, which is why one of the things I admire about you is a lot of people say, it's too late, we've grown too old. How can we change? And my whole thing is like, okay, Warren Buffett made 95% of his wealth, 95% of his wealth after his 65th birthday. Okay, so tell me exactly how old you are now. So 99% of your potential has not been used. If you actually can reimagine things, I love it.

Unknown (36:06)

And now when you were out touring for restoring the soul of business, I call it touring because you are a rock star.

Rashad Tobaccowala (36:14)

I don't call it a rock star. Basically, I speak for my money and food.

Unknown (36:19)

That's what I call it, a rock star. So when you were out touring as a rock star for restoring the soul of business, how early on in that process shaped the beginnings of the rethinking workbook that you're just putting out?

Rashad Tobaccowala (36:36)

So Rethinking work. So the restoring soul business really stay given to. The Age of Data is really a book of essays which say that to be successful you have to combine math and meaning, story and spreadsheet. And in order to do that, a lot of the book talks about things like the importance of managing change, the importance of constantly learning, which is upgrading your mental operating system, the importance of being able to tell truth to power while keeping your job. Which was a chapter called the Turn on the Table. But what was interesting is there were two chapters in the book that started to actually reveal the future of work in that book, which wasn't clear to me till a year later when something else happened. So the second chapter in the book is called the Darker side of Brighter Screens. And it was how do you manage teams in different places who don't actually meet in person that often? Which I had to do because I was working in a global company and I had teams all over the place. So how do you manage a culture where you've got teams in five different cities and things like that? The second is the end of the book. Basically had a chapter saying prepare for the third Connected Age, which literally has a chapter five years ago on Blockchain AI and other things. Those two chapters were like the seeds of what might happen for the next book without me knowing that. What became clear as I was going on my tour is from time to time, a lot of people start bringing some of that up. But what really happened was two months after my book came out, everything closed. So my book came out in Jan. 2020 and March 2020, everything had closed. And you know, Covid actually happened in November of 2019 in China. So my book had come out when Covid had started, but we didn't know Covid had started. And so then immediately after Covid started, which is only six months after I finished my full time job, every one of us worked from home for two and a half years. And then is when this book took shape. Okay. Because I began to realize that as I was talking to people about my first book, the things that were coming up were issues that I started addressing in the second book. And the single biggest thing that became very clear to me is the following, which is there were five reasons why work is changing. So my book basically says five reasons, of which Covid is the least important reason. Okay. And what people are taking away from COVID is also the wrong thing. There are three things to take away and everyone's taking only one of the three. So let me first start with what are the five reasons why work is changing? One, not surprisingly. And people don't seem to understand a societal change. So the United States population is in decline. If you block immigration, it'll decline really fast. The United States population is aging. 11,200 people turn 65 every day. This is true aging population and declining population in every country of the world, accepting seven and the continent of Africa. So it's true everywhere. We have five generations of work with young people and older people having completely different mindsets. We basically have the rise of the freelance economy, where 75 million people next year will work freelance, which is versus 74 million people who work full time. So you had these societal changes that were happening. We had technology changes, of which AI happens to be just one. We have the rise of marketplace, which is the ability for us to do plug and play, which is, in effect, a marketplace could be like Amazon Web Services. A marketplace could be like Shopify. A marketplace could be like Upwork and Freelancer. So marketplaces where we can both get resources as a small company, that allows us to scale and find places to sell, which is particularly interesting. 66% of a side gig or silent. And the last thing really is Covid. And the three things you take away from COVID what people have taken away from COVID is. Has changed where we work. Yeah, but that's the least important. You're the two most important. What Covid did is it changed what we thought about work. Okay. We began to ask, life is too short. Maybe instead of asking, how do I fit life into my work? I have to figure out, how do I fit work into my life? So it's not where we work, but what we think about work. But the other one that it basically did is it made us wake up and realize that in 2019, we were using 2002. We had 2019 technologies in 2019, but we were using them as 2002 technologies. And in June of 2020, by June of 2020, we were all working using 2019 technologies or 2020 technologies. So it accelerated change. What Covid did, is it fast forward right behind us into the future, changed what we thought about work. And also having to change where we work, which is the least important of those three. And so if you think about it, there are these five factors of which Covid happens to be one of three factors. And the thing we fixate is on one of the three of the least important parts of COVID And if that's the way you're going to plan your future, any executive or Any individual or any talent, you are not going to succeed. These are seismic changes. You have to rethink work.

Unknown (42:22)

Congratulations on book two, Rashad. Rethinking Work, available everywhere under the sun. I'm thinking Amazon, rashadtapakawala.com and wherever a book is, you can get it.

Rashad Tobaccowala (42:34)

Yeah. And if people want to know more about it, including the first 25 pages of the book for free, just go to rethinkingwork IO. So if you go to rethinkingwork IO, you've got all of it and also where to buy it if you want to buy it for your company, scale based buying discounts, et cetera. But do buy it, because I do believe that it's not like I'm going to make a whole bunch of money if you buy it. I get $3 every time you buy a book, so I sell that. I like helping people and I do believe that this is a manual for anybody who works, whether you're a leader or you just joined a company or experience, because everybody's a leader. But if you're very experienced or less experienced, regardless of your country and regardless of your industry, I've written it in such a way, it's basically a manual. So think about it is if you want to be a great writer, you know, you read or you sometimes have a thesaurus and you know, will and strong and other kinds of books. This one is that it's one of the books that people are going to sort of use. It's a little bit different and I hope it'll be like. And I've talked to the gentleman whose father wrote the book what color is your parachute? Which is the biggest book in the world of work that was really about who are you and how to get a job. This one is really. It's not as good as that because that's amazing. I've read the book. It's a legendary book, but it's sort of like this generation's like, what color is your parachute? Which is how do you soar in the future as an individual and as a leader and as a company.

Unknown (44:06)

Thanks for your generosity, Rashad, your inspiration and your friendship. I'm so grateful for it and I appreciate you being on. Thank you for listening to this episode of Taking a walk. You could find Taking a walk at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Iheart or wherever you get your podcasts. And Taking a Walk and our music Save Me podcasts are proudly part of the Iheart Podcast Network.

Unknown (44:36)

The Unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

Rashad Tobaccowala (45:12)

Hey, Jenice Torres here and I'm Austin Henkwitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio and Intuit QuickBooks. Catch up on seasons one and two and join us for a brand new season of the podcast as we talk to small business owners about how they manage and grow their businesses with the help of platforms like Intuit QuickBooks. Listen to mind the Business Small Business.

Unknown (45:35)

Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

Rashad Tobaccowala (45:38)

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Unknown (45:42)

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Unknown (46:14)

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