← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
"Stories in Song: A Musical Journey with A J Croce-Encore Inspiring Musician Interview"
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- [00:00]
Buzz Knight
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Janice Torres
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- [00:36]
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AJ Croce
Visit your nearby Lowe's on Colorado street in Kennewick.
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Janice Torres
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AJ Croce
This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.
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Janice Torres
Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
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Interviewer
As athletes, our lives are about having.
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Janice Torres
A clear path and a team that.
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AJ Croce
You can absolutely trust. So when it came to getting the.
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Janice Torres
Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.
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AJ Croce
PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
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Janice Torres
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Buzz Knight
Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast. I'm Buzz Knight, and we are in the heart of our Valentine's week celebration with Love Songs and Heartbreak Stories, a special series where we revisit episodes that explore the deepest emotions in music. This week, it's about the songs that make us feel, the stories that remind us we're not alone in our joys and sorrows, and the artists brave enough to bare their souls through their art. Today's guest, the remarkably talented A.J. croce, a singer, songwriter, and pianist whose music spans genres from soul and blues to jazz and pop, and whose life story is a testament to resilience, love, and loss. AJ carries forward an incredible musical legacy as the son of the legendary Jim Croce, but he's carved out his own distinctive path with a career spanning decades and numerous critically acclaimed albums. His music is infused with deep emotion and craftsmanship, drawing from the rich traditions of American roots music while creating something entirely his own. But AJ's journey has been marked by profound heartbreak as well. The tragic loss of his wife Marlo in 2018 devastated him, and yet through that unimaginable grief, he found a way to continue creating, to honor her memory and to channel his pain into music that connects with anyone who's experienced loss. This Valentine's week, join us for a deeply moving conversation about the power of love and the healing grace of music. AJ Croce is next on Taking a Walk.
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AJ Croce
Taking a Walk.
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Interviewer
Well, aj, welcome to Taking a Walk. Thanks for being here.
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AJ Croce
Hey, thanks so much. You know, I. I got to take a walk every day, so I dig it.
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Interviewer
So if you could take a walk with somebody, living or dead, doesn't have to be in the world of music, but we like when it can be. Who would you take that walk with? And where do you think you would. You would go on that walk?
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AJ Croce
That's a. That's a good question. There's so many people I would love to walk and talk with, but I would probably say that the first name that comes to mind would be my father because he died when I was very young and. And I think that being able to get his perspective on. On life would be kind of magical.
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Interviewer
I dare say it would be, oh, my God. And his Career was really a short career considering the amazing amount of work that he put out, right?
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AJ Croce
Mm. Yeah. You know, it was three albums in 18 months, and all of it written, recorded and. And toured it in that time.
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Interviewer
Do you have a sense, as you studied your dad's life, if he was caught by surprise at the quick pace of his stardom?
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AJ Croce
It was. It took, I think it took about, you know, a dozen years for him to be an overnight success. You know, he started playing in the late 50s and. And through college and he graduated and he went, you know, he was in groups in. In college and then in folk groups, and then, you know, went in 64, did a state Department tour of, you know, the Middle east, which was a very common thing back then in North Africa. And I think he felt like he was going to be able to, you know, that was going to be what he was doing. You know, he did everything he could to avoid a steady job. I think he. He, you know, he went. He got two master's degrees and then. And then took odd jobs and he joined the army in 64, 65. And then, you know, he. My mother met in 63, and they started writing together and performing together. And in 67, they got a break. They got signed to Capitol Records. They released an album that no one bought, and it was kind of over. And they didn't even. They toured for maybe two weeks, you know, that was it. And then it was back to work. And I think that he had, up to that point had really become a good player, became a good writer, but he hadn't really found his voice. And when my mother was pregnant with me, and this is kind of a rare thing to be able to see in an artist, but he recorded everything. All of the practice that for a concert, he'd play on the weekend at a little bar. It could be a roadhouse or a coffee house. It didn't matter what kind of place it was. He kind of tailored the set to that group and they were covers, mostly covers. He might throw something of his in there, but it was when my mother was pregnant with me. I think he felt like he had maybe one more chance before he had to really get a serious job. And I was archiving a bunch of his music maybe 25 years ago, and I came across a cassette, and it was all of the songs that he was planning to perform that weekend. And then it was all these great old blues songs and early country stuff. Jimmy Rogers and Mississippi John Hurt and Bessie Smith and all of this stuff. And then I flip it over and on the other side is the Smith beginning of Time in a Bottle. And this was the, like, epiphany for him. It was all of a sudden, all of those covers that he had done and the album he did with My Mother and an early solo attempt at a recording called Facets, self produced, was. It was all really standing on the shoulders of giants in the way that, you know, you could really see where the influences were from. And it wasn't that. Orig this. And at this point, all of a sudden, with Time in a Bottle, it became like the floodgates opened. And, you know, in the next six to eight months, everything for the first two records were written. So Don't Mess around with Jim Operator was finished. A lot of these things had been started, like leaving New York City after moving there in 69. My folks moved there trying to make a living playing music and. And on the way out, my dad started New York's Not My Home and Bo. They were unfinished. And it just went on, you know, and so it became this. It. It was, you know, it was kind of magic. It was like lightning had struck.
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Interviewer
I'll say. Yeah, we're going to talk about Croce plays Croce and certainly the Heart of the Eternal tour as well. But let's talk about the Heart of the Eternal. What inspired, you know, those songs and sounds and how does it reflect where you are as an artist today?
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AJ Croce
You know, I think it's really very representative of who I am as an artist. It draws from a lot of different places. I. I was conscious in. In selecting the songs with Shooter Jennings because I had a lot to choose from. A lot. You know, probably 25 songs that I was really proud of to choose from. Didn't want anything to be too similar from the next, but didn't want it to be too different. There are kind of pairings in the sense that there's, you know, certain. A couple each song has. Has a partner in the sense that they kind of live in the same world. So on that album, there's a couple songs that are kind of rock and roll songs. One's sort of psychedelic soul influence, the I Got A Feeling, the other being hey, Margarita. Both of those are kind of living in the same world, just as Complications of Love and Finest Line are kind of living in the same sonic world. I like to be able to have things that can be very different from the song before it, but. But will kind of take you on a. On a little bit of a. Of a journey. You know, I like to Think of, of an album in its entirety because it helps me to, to get. Have a well rounded story. But I don't know that anyone else outside of, outside of me is ever going to listen to it that way. We live in a world of singles. It's like the 1950s or early 60s again. You know, people are. They're not even getting to two sides, they're getting one song and that's it. You know, people download one song and if they like it, they'll download another. And then you've got a smaller group of people that want to hear everything that a particular artist does. I love those people, but it's like they're, you know, it's few and far between compared to the number of people that hear a song on the radio or a friend shares it with them and it becomes part of a playlist. I think that's, it's, it's all valid, it's all important. But all of those are facets that I consider in recording it. You know, it was a really fun record to record. It was super relaxed. We had been on tour for two and a half years when my band went in to record this. You know, my rhythm section, bass player and drummer, we had had played with me for over a decade at that point. We had played every one of these songs live except the last song, which we played live, but it was in a different form and it was just very comfortable. I've never had a lot of time in the studio, budget wise. So we recorded the basic tracks in four days. I had a. I overdub. If I was playing guitar and needed to play piano, I'd go over, play the piano part, the organ part, whatever it was sung, whatever instrument I started on, I was singing live because I want people in the, you know, that come to see me perform. I want them to be able to connect with the album as if it's actually organic. It's me singing. There's no pitch correction or any tricks in that way. I want it to feel alive. And. Yeah, so it was, it was a unique project. It was, it was fun.
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Interviewer
I want to talk about some of the folks you've worked with in your career. But before getting there, I think about that unbelievable list of people that you've collaborated with. And it's a diverse group and you're very diverse in your approach. Do you intentionally choose these collaborations because of those folks and their diverse outlook on things?
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AJ Croce
Absolutely. I think, you know, diversity is the spice of life, you know, it is, it's the thing that makes music interesting. I think that it's not necessary. You can hear great artists who have very limited knowledge of music outside of what they do. That's what they know. And it can be magical, and they can be the greatest in the world or one of the greatest in the world in their field. But I love it when music brings in a lot of different elements. And I think because every chord's been played, every melody's been written, every combination of words have been spoken and sung, I think that I've come to a place for myself as an. As a. As a creator of music, that the best way to create something that's unique and uniquely representative of me is to incorporate lots of different genres and finding interesting ways to incorporate all of these different sounds and. And textures and scales and chords and put them in a. In a. Together in a way that hasn't yet been put together that way.
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Janice Torres
We'll be right back with more of.
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AJ Croce
The Taking a Walk podcast.
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Commercial Advertiser
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
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Interviewer
When you pull back and think of the list of people I'm going to talk about, you must sometimes want to pinch yourself thinking of being alongside. All right, I'll start with Leon Russell as an example. I mean, what was that experience like?
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AJ Croce
Well, I. I'm not really starstruck. They're just. They're people, you know, And. And with Leon, you know, it was funny. We had played on a couple festivals in the 90s together, and. And we really connected on. He and. He and Willie Nelson were on tour, and I and I, they were doing a duo show. It was the best I'd ever heard these guys. And I had had the opportunity to play with Willie, sit in with him and. And play keys and stuff. And he was always super supportive. And so I go backstage on. Onto Willy's bus, which was dangerous in those days, and, you know, you don't get a contact high from gummies. So anyway, he. Leon and I started talking about piano players, and we spoke for, like, we just talked about our heroes for an hour. You know, I think we bored Willie half to death. And a little while later, I got a call that he wants to write. And so we had the same influences. I wasn't thinking about him as this iconic songwriter, piano player, studio musician or. Or producer or any of the hats, many hats and very cool hats that he's worn. I just thought that, you know, here's a kind of a fellow, you know, traveler. You know, he's inspired by all kinds of music and. And is. And uses. Uses it in the same way that, that I have, you know, in a different, in his way, you know, that's magical.
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Interviewer
Could you possibly nail your favorite Leon Russell song? I know that's probably impossible.
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AJ Croce
You know, there's, there's so many good ones, but. And we wrote a bunch together. We wrote probably 10 songs together. But I really, in A Song for you is beautiful. There's something about the self titled Leon record and Carney in particular that really resonate for me. And, and again, you know, I, I loved his music. I, I still love his music. It, it. But he was not like my, he was not Ray Charles for me or Ray Charles for him. You know, we both had that connection to, to Ray and that and, and to Little Richard and to Johnny Johnson and to the boogie guys. Those were, you know, they were kind of our piano playing heroes, regardless of songwriting or anything. But Leon wrote so many great songs and those two albums just have so many cool things and I love how raw it is and just, just, it's just great because how much fun the band is having.
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Interviewer
Oh, man, I'll say. Then you think about his record company executive period, which is incredible as well. Right?
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AJ Croce
I know Freddie King was on his lab and JJ Kale and then of course the studio, the church, which he has, which is, you know, or had. And that's pretty amazing. And his son Teddy, Jack's very talented as well.
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Interviewer
I find when I listen to his catalog or my wife and I just, you know, just have a night of just, you know, swinging through playlists and whatnot. You then like rediscover something that you knew was great, like, you know, magic Mirror and you go, oh my God. And we just play that, you know, 15 times in a row because it's just so amazing. All right, you brought up Ray Charles, so let's talk about that collaboration and how magical that had to be.
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AJ Croce
That was pretty magical. And it, you know, obviously he was, he was a hero of mine. I got turned on to him when I had lost my sight and you know, it was, it was funny. I. When I was about 16, I started touring around Southern California with a blues piano player named Floyd Dixon. Floyd was just an eccentric kook who had a tendency to drink a little too much. He wrote, hey bartender, wine, wine, wine. One scotch, one bourbon, one beer and great boogie woogie player. And he told me this story about hanging out with Ray Charles and Sam Cooke back in the late 50s. And they were on Central Avenue and Sam Cook and he had had too much to drink. So they had the brilliant Drunken idea to get Ray Charles to drive him home. And so they get into Floyd's Cadillac and they tie a string to raise left wrist and a string to raise right wrist. And they go, okay, Ray, you've got. You got a mile of green light. Step on it, right? So five years after I hear that story, I'm out on the road with Ray Charles. And I'm not starstruck, but he was a huge influence. And so I'm a little. And I had heard a lot of stories about him being challenging or difficult off stage or whatever. And I see him smiling on the side of the stage after the show. And he's sitting there and you've seen this, the way he looked and he seemed approachable. And I come over and I say, ray, is it true? I heard this story from Floyd Dixon, and here's Floyd Dixon, and his smile disappears and he's just like. And I said, is it true that you drove Sam Cooke and Floyd Dixon home? And he lightens up right away. He goes bad. I used to drive all the time. And that was my introduction to Ray Charles. He was super encouraging. He dug what I did. He thought that he was grateful that I had a piano because it made sure that he had a great piano too, because he didn't always ask for a great piano, even though anyone would have given him whatever he wanted. It was just an old fashioned way of doing things. He always had the Wurlitzer and a keyboard or something. But on tour, that was. That was a dream, you know, And I had heard all these insane stories about his tour manager, Joe Adams, who, who I was terrified of meeting. And, you know, he would fire a bus driver and drive, drive the rest of the tour. He would fire a pilot and fly the plane. You know, he was. It was like. And. And I meet him and he couldn't have been more of a gentleman in the whole, you know, it was just. I felt like after that, I must have been 21 years old when I did that. I'm like, okay, well, if I never do anything amazing in my career, I've done this.
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Interviewer
Well, you've. You've continued doing amazing things. Heart of the Eternal wonderful project. We had John Oates on this podcast some time ago. He spoke so wonderfully of collaborating with you on Reunion. Talk about your view of collaborating with the amazing John Oates.
- [24:11]
AJ Croce
John was such a surprise. We met. We met at the Ryman. We were both performing Was it John Prine tribute a couple years back. And after I played, he came over and said, hey, you Want to get together. I'd known that he lived here in Nashville, but didn't know, had never met him. And so he comes over a couple weeks later. He had just gone to see his father, who was 100 years old in Philadelphia. And he comes over and he says, I saw my dad, and he's 100. And he said, john, I'm ready for my reunion. I've had a great life, and I'm grateful, but I'm ready to see the people I've been, you know, I love and lost and ready for my reunion. And that was all it took. The two of us took that, and he said, I've got an idea. I want to call it Reunion, but I don't know exactly where to go with it. Kind of hear it as a. Kind of a gospel thing. But he was playing it in 4. 4. And I said, well, we got to play it in three or in six if it's gospel. And so I started and played the opening part to it, and that was that we wrote it. Bam. It just kind of wrote itself. And John is such a talented musician. The thing. There's very few musicians that I write with who understand the possibilities as far as not just the way it feels, but also theoretically, what is going on in the music. So a place where I'm like, you know, we want to go to the four, but I don't want to. I don't want to stay on this four again. We're going back to this. And. And so we play A minor two instead, which was his suggestion in kind of the leading up to the chorus. And it's basically the same chord the way it's played, but it has a different tonality. And. And I just. There's not a lot of collaborators that I have who. Who have that ability, you know, of course, Leon was one, and I've had. You know, I've been able to collaborate with some great, great folks. But John really understands the music and the possibility of a song, and, you know, he's a master at what he does.
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Interviewer
You both share this incredible passion for the history of what you're doing as well, the history of your craft. So I think that's what's remarkable about both of you. There's another force of nature that you collaborated with on. On the. The latest project, Heart of the Eternal. What was it like working with Margo Price?
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AJ Croce
You know, I wasn't familiar with Margo. I knew her name and have friends who. Who play with her, but I had never met her before. And she came in she was in Los Angeles and stopped in the studio, I think, the second day of tracking, just to say hi to Shooter. And she heard what we were doing and she apparently dug it and said, hey, if you want someone to join in and sing on anything, let me know. And I had. I'd written this song initially on guitar, and then the day I was leaving for Los Angeles, I was. Played it on piano for my girlfriend and I said, what do you think of this? She's like, where's that song been? And I said, well, you know, I've had it for a while. You heard it on guitar, but it just came alive on. On the piano. And. And so I looked at the lyrics to this and I realized that if I broke the verses in half, that it was a real conversation, almost a question and answer or two statements. And it's such an ethereal piece of music that there was something kind of ghostly about it. Beautiful, gentle and forceful at the same time. Confidence, maybe. Anyway, I felt like having those facets kind of fit, you know, I think that. I think it worked for. For us to do that in that way. It just. It was really unique, completely unexpected. And, you know, we met. We met twice, and I haven't seen her since.
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Interviewer
It's a wonderful collaboration. It really is. Well, in closing, what's next after this album and tour? What are the new collaborations or creative projects that are on your horizon?
- [29:08]
AJ Croce
Man, I'm not sure. You know, I have a lot. I've gotten, you know, another album, you know, worth of songs that I'm. That I'm continuing to write, even one that I wrote with John, co wrote with John and Gary Nicholson, who's been a longtime collaborator. I got a message from Ben Harper the other day, and that could be an interesting collaboration. He's living in France right now and wanted to maybe collaborate long distance. I have a project that's been sort of a real passion project for several years. It took many years to sort of organize the concept for its origin stories, using a lot of almost the world music project, in a way, because there's a lot of really unique instrumentation, a lot of interesting stories, stories. And they're coming from folklore, coming from mythology, coming from science, coming from religion. And the similarities of these origin stories from each continent is so amazing and so similar that you realize how similar we all are. And I think it's such a beautiful project that when. When the time allows, I will. And you know, that was initially started with a group called Anti Ballast, who's, you know, kind of a world music band. I think five languages are spoken in that group. It started in Mexico City, but the lead singer and percussionist is from Nigeria and the band all kind of met in Brooklyn and but they're, you know, they all play with a lot of different groups. So I just think there's going to be a lot of collaboration when this, this thing comes together. I think it'll be really interesting.
- [30:59]
Interviewer
Oh man, I have so enjoyed Speaking with you, A.J. croce. And for those that want to check out the Music Saved Me podcast, you should check out that version of the AJ Croce with Lynn Hoffman on Music Save Me. That's also fabulous. But aj, congratulations on the new project, the tour and everything. And thanks for your your generation, generosity and all you continue to give us, man.
- [31:24]
AJ Croce
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us so you never miss an episode.
- [31:38]
Janice Torres
Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcast. Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks. We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners. The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie, that's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. With Bali from iShares, you get access to both monthly income and growth potential in one simple ETF. It's the best of both worlds. Discover Bali iShares Large Cap Premium Income Active ETF iShare shares the market is yours. Visit www.ishares.com to view a perspective for investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses and other information that you should read and consider carefully before investing. Risks include principal loss in the use of derivatives, which could increase risks and volatility. Monthly income is not guaranteed. Prepared by BlackRock Investments, LLC.
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- [33:47]
AJ Croce
This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.