← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Music History Podcast:Takin' a Walk with Buzz Knight: Clint Black Shares His Emotional Journey and Legacy in Country Music
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- [00:01]
Buzz Knight
Taking a Walk I'm Buzz Knight and this is the Taking a Walk podcast. Now, do you have something to say?
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Why don't you use the Talk Back
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feature on the iHeart app, send me a voice message, react to the show, share your thoughts, and tell me who you'd like to take on your ultimate dream walk. I'm listening. My guest today is one of the most important figures in the history of country music. Even he burst onto the scene in 1989 as part of what became known as the Class of 89 alongside Garth Brooks and Alan Jackson, and helped reshape the entire genre. He scored five consecutive number one singles from his very first album, Killing Time, wrote or co wrote every one of his more than three dozen chart hits, amassed 22 number one singles, sold over 20 million records, earned a Grammy, and has stars on both the Hollywood and Nashville walks of fame. Right now he's on his Back on the Blacktop tour. The Country Music hall of Fame has a major new exhibition dedicated to his life and career and his memoir, Killing Time is out. He's one of the great singer songwriters of our era. Coming up next on Taking a Walk, we welcome Clint Black.
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iHeart Podcast Network Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Buzz Knight
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Buzz Knight
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Buzz Knight
Taking a Walk Clint Black welcome to
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the Taking a Walk podcast, sir.
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Clint Black
Good to be here. And I can do it sitting down even better.
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Public Investing Ad Narrator
That's right.
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Buzz Knight
So, Clint, you came up playing the Texas nightclub circuit before anybody knew your name. What did those years teach you about performing and connecting with your audience?
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Clint Black
Oh, lots of things. Get the money up front. Get that $50 in advance. You know, I, I think one of the things that came out of it was appreciating anyone who shows up. There were times no one showed up and, and I was playing to the bartender who was cleaning glasses and trying to ignore me. Probably how to how to be comfortable on stage. You know, it's not a natural thing for us to get up there and, you know, hey, here I go with my thing. So just being comfortable on stage, being ready for anything, whether it's someone coming up on stage and trying to take my harmonica or a fight breaking out and the sheriff's coming in and dragging someone off of the dance floor, being. Being ready for just about anything and knowing when to stop playing and when to keep going. But the most important thing would be, thank you for showing up. Being grateful for that.
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Buzz Knight
Congratulations on killing time. I want to ask you, what was that process like for you? It was going deep, certainly into your life and your care, career and your great legacy. But what was the process like for
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Clint Black
you writing the book? Yes, it was a lot of talking with Craig Shelburne and him transcribing that for me. He did a lot of research and. And put that on a document for me, and then, you know, helped me with the structure, you know, organizing chapters from there. It was really me taking what I had said or what we were writing about and putting it in my own words and telling the story the way I would tell it. Eventually, I would have to decide what to leave in and what to leave out. Took his input on that. And my editor at HarperCollins. And the exploration of those memories for me was cathartic, fun, funny, laughing at my life at times, and at times very emotional. Reliving this thing that is no more. Feeling the loss of that past and. And then eventually getting to the point of fatigue and headaches from just, you know, 10, 12 hours a day sitting at the computer, trying to hit my deadline and not being able to walk away from it, becoming so immersed in it, that even when I decided to take a break and get away from. Was like a magnet. And it would pull me back, and I'd be right back at the computer working on it and getting headaches and eventually calling it finished, and then having my editor call it not finished.
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Buzz Knight
They have a way of doing that, huh?
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Clint Black
Yeah. And I loved it, though. I knew before we even started this how lucky I was going to be to have an editor helping me make it better. So I was all in on that. But I. I didn't realize how many times I would have to reread, rewrite, look for errors and typos, and just go over and over and over and over the book again and again to the point where it took a lot of focus just to read it carefully and not skim along on the surface of what I had written, but to really stay focused on it. And when I was at the End of it and, and doing that, that's when I was most impacted by my own life. And, and things like losing my dad and things that just, just broke me and made me sob all over again. Reliving a life well lived is an emotional ride.
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Buzz Knight
Well, you have always had, as a hallmark to your life and career, authenticity and truth and a genuine resilience. And that comes shining through in the book so brilliantly on so many levels, even at very difficult dark periods. I'm going to pick out a few elements here. First of all, so that moment when that, that writer from. It was Variety, wasn't it? Who.
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Clint Black
Yeah, one of those Hollywood reporter of
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Buzz Knight
Variety wrote the story about, about you and Lisa living apart and not being together. And you reached out to him, let's just say, more than once, to really confront that story. I don't want to give the whole background of it away, but do you still call that guy every year?
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Clint Black
He's passed away a good while back, but I called him every year for a while until I realized nothing would come of it. I wanted him to confront the dishonesty that he was presented with and consider the source. And the other part was, you know, see how untrue it is. You know, we're still together now, nearly 35 years. I had already experienced, you know, people saying things about me that were cruel or untrue, unkind and all that didn't provoke a reaction or a response from me. But when you start talking about my marriage, then it's time to become proactive.
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Buzz Knight
But I think in the long run too, you, even though you had continued to reach out to him to kind of say, look, we're still together, you ultimately, if, if I have it correctly, respected the fact that he did not give up his, his source as well.
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Clint Black
Well, yes, I did. I, I think it's a, it's a mixed bag because while he didn't give up his source, he also didn't acknowledge that they lied to him, that they were purposely trying to spread false information about my marriage. And so the respect was not widespread, let's say.
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Buzz Knight
And then the difficult moment where you had that terrible accident is just such a shocking piece to read in that, you know, detail there. That must have been really hard for you to go deep into that because that one was not only your, your physical and mental well being, but that was also about your career too, right?
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Clint Black
Yeah, it was harder to go through it than it was to revisit it because I've been through, through so many surgeries since then that I marvel at it, you know, I'm like the $6,000 man now, you know, so many surgeries, and I was. I was one of what I'm told is the rare bird who wanted to know exactly what was being done in detail, actually had pestered my surgeon for video and he finally sent me a video of one of the surgeries on my neck. And I watched it like, like this for the first five minutes and then settled in and got used to the gore of it. And. But I wanted to know every detail and understand what was happening symptom wise, and what the corrections were going to be. And so to me, it was just this marvel of modern technology and, and gratitude for how having this happen at this time and in human history when they did have some pretty good remedies for it. So to me, it's a. It's an incredibly fascinating and marvelous story to tell. So what I really had the trouble with was, was getting the details right. And I talked to my surgeon, Dr. Bray, and got more details so I could be accurate. But what you see in the book is about a third of it all. And so when anyone likes to talk about that stuff, I love to tell it.
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Buzz Knight
The other element that really struck me in the book was your very particular description of what an artist faces with their record label and how difficult and challenging that is to stand up for what you believe and to kind of keep strong throughout it. I can't help thinking about artists of today who might read this and gain some insight, because it hasn't gotten any easier for artists. It's only gotten more difficult, don't you think?
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Clint Black
Well, it's gotten easier for artists like myself who really want to write their own songs. That's more in favor now than ever before, you know, for me, I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. I was willing to throw it all away in order to be as, as full an artist as I could be. If everything went away because I insisted on being an artist and writing my own songs, then so be it. There wasn't meant to be. And I, I don't think that's for everyone. I. I think it. It has to be according to each his own convictions and what's most important. I think financial security can easily be more important to people, especially who have families to support, than being the creator of your own work. Confronting your biggest advocate is not. I don't. I would not push that idea on anyone, but I do like the idea of young artists being able to see it cost me, and so it should be considered you know, and you know, get some counsel on it because, you know, you're, you're making a choice that could, that could hurt you in the long run. Ultimately, I walked away from the major label system entirely because I wasn't willing to give up my day job writing songs just to be able to sing on my nighttime job. It's not for everyone, it's not for the faint of heart. And I think the only reason I was so adamant about it is because the artists I respected most wrote their own songs and I loved all the songwriters, all the Harlan Howard stuff and Dean Dillon and you know, Don Schlitz, you know, you name all of the writers who wrote and weren't known to the, to most of us, unsung heroes. Yeah, I knew who they were and I appreciated them, of course, but I gravitated to the singer songwriter. That's who I wanted to be. I didn't want to be a star, although I knew stardom was a necessity. But I wanted to be like them. And if I can't be like my heroes, then I'm not just going to do it for the money. And if I had it to do all over again, knowing what I know now, I might have taken a different tact, a different approach to resolving the issue. But I drew a hard line and that was that. And I do credit the record company in the book for at least releasing the albums I gave them. I may be one of the few artists who just made albums and turned them in. There were a lot of controls on everyone else's albums and there was one instance where someone at the record company called the producer, the co producer and once, I think even the engineer to have something changed. I mean, I was there for every minute of the playback and overdubs and recording and everything. And to think that someone wanted to step in and tell an engineer to change something without me there was abhorrent. And so anyway, I turned in the albums, they released them and in almost every instance they promoted them. And so I have to give them that. Ultimately, bad things were said about me because of my stance. You know, my reputation was sullied a bit because I was considered the problem child. But the problem was the record company didn't get to make my records. So I thought not a bad problem to be, but it, it was at a cost.
- [19:07]
Podcast Host or Narrator (possibly Buzz Knight or guest host)
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [19:12]
Public Investing Ad Narrator
Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks bonds, options, crypto and now Generated Assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to a to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index, and lets you back test it against the S P500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available@public.com Disclosures
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Kal Penn
hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's Audiobook project, Hail Mary, Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.
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Podcast Host or Narrator (possibly Buzz Knight or guest host)
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo yo yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.
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Kal Penn
Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:17]
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Podcast Host or Narrator (possibly Buzz Knight or guest host)
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
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Buzz Knight
The class of 89. You, Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson. That moment genuinely changed country music. Did it feel historic to you when it was happening or did you only understand the magnitude of that later?
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Clint Black
Now, as it was happening and it took a couple of years for it to really spin up and I knew what was happening. I saw, I saw Nashville go from six major record companies to 26. So, you know, crediting myself for that. I didn't think that way. I just thought there were so many of us who were influenced by all the country greats as well as our pop greats, but we were making country music. But a lot of us are. Our musical heroes included the Eagles and Jackson Brown and James Taylor and Buffett and Seals and Croft and, you know, Loggins and Messina and Seeger and Skynyrd and you know, I would call a lot of that rock. But, you know, it was considered the more popular front of music until SoundScan came out and, and showed the world just how popular country music really was. So I saw it happening and I attributed it to all of the talent who had been fighting to get in, suddenly had the record companies out of, you know, New York and LA really funding these labels in Nashville, you know, because it wasn't, you know, 26 brand new record companies it was affiliates and subsidiaries of the six major record companies. But they were funded to go out there and create other more companies and sign more artists. 10, 15, 20 artists. So there was such an influx of talent who were getting a chance that that was the historic movement. I saw how I saw it and the reason for it was just so much, so much great talent who were given the opportunity.
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Buzz Knight
Let's play a little game called Fast 5 here. First concert you ever attended.
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Clint Black
That would be Merle Haggard
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Buzz Knight
first record.
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Clint Black
That was as a child when I grew up and started going to concerts. I'd been listening to rock and roll and my brothers had brought it home when I was really young. So the first concert I went to that I bought a ticket to was Ted Nugent and the Amboy Dukes. So he still had the Amboy Dukes there attached to him. And the opening act was Head East.
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Buzz Knight
Wow. Journey to the center of your mind and never been any reason. I'm sure we're part of that, Phil.
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Clint Black
Yeah, big hit. And. And it was a great show.
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Buzz Knight
Wow, that's great. First record you ever bought with your own money.
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Clint Black
Yeah, I was. I tell a story in the book. I used to find money on the ground and I found a $20 bill and my brother Brian said, let's go to the record store. And so he took me to the record store and helped me pick out an album he really wanted. And it was Uriah Heap, look at yourself. I liked it because it had a quasi mirror on the COVID So look at yourself and. And you know, you could see yourself in the reflection. And I thought that as an eight year old, I thought that was cool.
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Buzz Knight
First song you ever wrote and what was it about?
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Clint Black
First song was called Time Machine and it was about just going into the future, going into the past and it being, you know, mind blowing and all of this. Nothing, nothing good, nothing to keep. It ended up in the trash bin, so I thought. And then I found it in an old notebook a few years ago. It's nothing I would ever share with anyone. But at the time I sang it in the talent show at my high school, Katy High School. And I got a great reaction. I was playing harmonica and guitar at the same time. So pretty novel to a bunch of kids and got a great reaction and took second place. And the. A bunch of them were throwing, you know, nickels and dimes at me, you know, like, you know, hey, here's some money. We like this. And I'm like, ouch, ouch. Thanks. Ouch.
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Buzz Knight
First car. And what was always playing in it.
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Clint Black
First car didn't have a radio. It was a 64 Plymouth Ford Fury 3. It was like the B52 song, you know, big as a whale. And it lasted two weeks. It broke down in front of a U totem convenience store. And by the time my brother Mark and I got back there to get it running, the owner had had it towed. Wouldn't tell me, couldn't tell me who the towing company was so that I could find the salvage yard. I looked and looked and looked at all through all the salvage yards for it. Never found it. I. It cost me $300, by the way. So it was a big loss to me as a teenager, but I would drive again.
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Buzz Knight
First moment you thought, I can actually do this for a living.
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Clint Black
I was. I was 17, I think, and I was trying to make a decision for my career path and wanted to be an astronaut and thought the way into that is through the air Force, and there's no way the air force would have taken me. And I kind of knew that. So I decided music was it, and whatever kind of a living I made at it would be good enough.
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Buzz Knight
Clint Black the Hard Way on Purpose opens at the great Country Music hall of Fame. What is it like walking through an exhibition about your own life?
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Clint Black
Well, it's. I had gone through my storage lockers and pulled a bunch of stuff out for the. For the hall to look through and pick what. What would they could tell the story with. So I had seen some of it, but I hadn't seen it on display, you know, standing in the hall of fame and museum. So I think what was most striking to me was seeing it with my wife and daughter and knowing that my fans could see it, my friends who were all there could see it and follow the story. This. It wasn't all that new to me because I had just written the book and I'd seen a bunch of the artifacts. For me, it was more about marveling at the display of it and seeing how they approached laying it all out, because that was not told to me. I didn't have a sense of what the display would be like. And it was fun to see it with Lily especially. She hadn't seen so much of my career as Lisa had, so it was a thrill. It was especially moving to hear the. The introduction and introductory speech with Kyle Young introducing me, the CEO of the hall of Fame, and hearing him talk about my career and who I was as an artist and a writer, that was, I think, the most moving part of the evening for me.
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Buzz Knight
I can't wait to see it. I love the Country Music hall of Fame. They do such an amazing job. You've been described as someone who refused to follow trends, who insisted on doing it the hard way on purpose. That's sort of how the exhibit kind of lays it out. Was there ever a moment where that pressure to inform sort of got to you?
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Clint Black
No, I think the frustration that when I learned what it was about, the disappointment, it was a real letdown to me to. To know that it wasn't about the songs, it was about the politics that the record company played in. For me, it was a. It was a very clear choice. I felt I didn't have a choice. This is who I am, and if you don't want me, then let me go. And if you're not going to let me go, then, you know, here's my next piece of work. I was a piece of work and now I. I just. I just rolled with it. I took the. The blows and counted my blessings and not my curses.
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Buzz Knight
You must be so excited about the, the Back on the Blacktop tour. Getting out there with your fans. What does live performance still give you to this day?
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Clint Black
Well, it's, you know, I always say, you know, every night is a World Series game to me. I want to be at my best. I'm striving for excellence, and what it gives me is a chance to entertain people. It's all I've ever wanted to do. But doing it on my terms, I'm not running around swinging from ropes and all that. There's no pyro explosions or anything. It's really about the music and a little bit about the comedy. You know, depending on how intimate the venue is, we. We get lots of laughs in the show. I did all the stage, video screen content myself. So that's another chance to present something that I think complements the music and the show doesn't detract from it. It's a chance to put myself to the test. You know, I still practice just about every day. I'm pushing myself to get better and better on my instrument, more knowledgeable about music and, and the technology and the way we present and how. How it sounds. And every show is a chance to do it to the highest level of excellence we can. We can achieve.
- [34:08]
Buzz Knight
So, Clint, tell me about the Lifetime movie and what that means to you and how folks can look forward to it.
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Clint Black
You know, Lifetime. It had approached me a couple of times for the song when I said, I do my duet with my wife Lisa, and I didn't Pay close enough attention or dig in deep. It didn't appeal to me when I first heard about their. What I heard about their idea at first, and then I took a meeting and learned more, and I'm so glad I did, because it wasn't what I thought it wasn't what I thought it was. It was so much more. And it was a fantastic opportunity for me and Lisa to help shape a love story that pulled from our values and our principles and our idea of relationships. And so we. We got to be involved as executive producers. You know, sometimes that can be a privilege. That is, it doesn't require as much involvement, but in this case, we got to be really involved, which made it much more rewarding as a. As a couple and also just creatively to. To have that. That palette to work on. I got to come up with the idea of how Lisa and I would appear in the movie. Although there's a lot of collaboration there, I loved. I loved being able to think about that and come up with ideas and present them and have people who can do this without us helping to make it even better. So to have that with a song as special to us as when I said I do, and. And knowing that we were able to shape what the love story is, just made it the best experience. Top notch, people. Great network of lifetime comes on May 23rd. We're. We're excited for everyone to see it, and, you know, it's a pretty big audience that sees these Lifetime movies, so we're hoping for some great feedback.
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Buzz Knight
Well, we always like to close the Taking a Walk podcast with this question. If you could take a walk with anybody, living or dead, who would it be, and what would you want to talk about? Clint Black.
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Clint Black
I would take a walk with someone both living and dead, and that would be Jesus Christ. I'm trying my best to walk with him, at least on the path that he wants for me. And I feel the greatest joy I have is when I feel close to him, close to God. I listen for his voice, you know, whenever I really need help. Every night when I pray, I try to get closer. I said something in the book about always feeling like, you know, it would be arrogant to think the hand of God is. Is present in my life, but I don't think I would have survived and been the man I am without his hand in my life. It makes me more and more emotional to say that because I'm trying harder and harder to get there, and I never feel close enough. So I. I thought about that, knowing the. The question was coming and he is always the the first name I think of.
- [37:58]
Buzz Knight
Boy, there are so many moments I pinch myself with gratitude when I'm doing this podcast and this is one of those moments. Clint Black, it's really an honor to have you on the Back on the Blacktop tour. The new book Killing Time. It's so fantastic to have you on Taking a Walk. I wish you all the best and good health.
- [38:20]
Clint Black
It's my honor. Thank you. Thanks Buzz.
- [38:24]
Buzz Knight
I'm Buzz Knight and thanks for listening to the Taking a Walk podcast now. Now please check out our companion podcasts produced by Buzz Night Media Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music Save Me Showcasing the healing power of music and comedy. Save Me Shining a light on how laughter is the best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are part of the I Heart Podcast Network
- [38:54]
iHeart Podcast Network Announcer
at cvs, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit us@cvs.com or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.
- [39:30]
Kal Penn
Hey everyone, it's Kalpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobook available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:59]
Sean Duffy
I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. The sound of a Seatbelt. It's one of the most important sounds in our car. It means everyone is ready and everyone is safe. The more our kids see us put on our seatbelts, the more natural it is for them to put theirs on too. Make it a priority. Buckle up every time. Hear the sound. Make it a habit paid for by NHTSA
- [40:29]
Inner Balance Ad Narrator
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