← Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Takin' A Walk - Music History with Buzz Knight
Walking the Beat: Adam Met on AJR, Advocacy and Adventure
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- [00:00]
Jenny Garth
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
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- [00:26]
Buzz Knight
Flight to Mexico now boarding. Oh, that's me.
- [00:29]
American Express Announcer
That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. For more information, visit americanexpress.com withamx did.
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- [01:07]
Jenny Garth
Garth from I Do Part 2, Ozempic in a Pill. It's Oral Semaglutide and is now available from Future health. Go to futurehealth.com to get affordable access to Oral Semaglutide, Ozempic and zeppbound for only $3 a day. No insurance needed. Visit futurehealth.com future without the e to start losing this week, Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [01:36]
Adam Met
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- [02:10]
Tom Brokaw
I'm Tom Brokaw. Hope to see you back here.
- [02:12]
Adam Met
I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamas is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a constant and from one era to the next trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC. Taking a walk. Your power at the local level is thousands of times more than your power at the federal level. Not saying don't vote in a federal election, but my call to action for you would be go look up when your next local election is and look at the people who are running because that is going to make some of the biggest difference in your own life.
- [02:59]
Tom Brokaw
Welcome to another episode of Taking a Walk. This is the podcast where we explore the stories, music and passions that inspire us. I'm your host, Buzz Knight. And today, Adam met musician, activist, educator and the a in the chart topping band ajr. Adam's journey is anything but ordinary. From busking on New York City streets with his brothers to selling out arenas worldwide, he's helped shape AJR's signature sound, one that's inventive and and deeply personal. He's a climate advocate, a PhD in human rights law and sustainable development, and an adjunct professor at Columbia University. Now Adam is adding author to his list of accomplishments. His debut book, how to Use the Power of Connection to Engage, Take Action and Build a Better World is out in Amplify. Adam draws on his experience building one of music's most devoted fan bases and shows how the same strategies can be used to spark real world change. Let's talk to Adam Met from AJR right now on taking a walk.
- [04:11]
Buzz Knight
Well, Dr. Met, I hope you can cure what ails me. Welcome to Taking a Walk.
- [04:16]
Adam Met
Only if you're on a plane and they ask for a doctor's help.
- [04:22]
Buzz Knight
Well, we have a signature question, first of all, that we want to ask at the start here. Since the podcast is called Taking a Walk, who would you like to take a walk with, living or dead? It could be somebody in the music side of things, but doesn't have to be. It's your imagination, it's your walk.
- [04:44]
Adam Met
Do I have to talk to them while I'm walking with them? Or could it just be a silent walk?
- [04:48]
Buzz Knight
It could be silent too.
- [04:50]
Adam Met
Huh? I feel like I would want to take a silent walk with Paul Simon and just be in his presence. I feel like he's my favorite artist of all time and I feel like if I humanized him in my mind, I might like him less. And so I just want to see what it's like to be in his presence and take a walk with him.
- [05:11]
Buzz Knight
I like that because sometimes, you know, the bubble gets burst with folks Like Paul Simon, who we. Who mean so much to us. Right, Exactly. All right. That's a good. That's a good one. Now, do you like to walk in New York City? Do you have favorite places to walk there?
- [05:29]
Adam Met
I walk everywhere. So I'm averaging now that it's nicer out in New York, around 20,000 steps a day. So I walk while I'm doing conference calls, I walk while I'm in meetings, when I'm on the phone with friends, I walk everywhere. And my favorite place is I live right near Central park, so my go to is walk out the door, go into Central park around Belvedere Castle. The theater where they have Shakespeare in the park is under construction now, so I can't really walk around there, but I just go. It's one of my favorite things ever.
- [06:02]
Buzz Knight
I love great walking cities. I live outside of Boston. Boston's a great walking city. But yeah, I mean, it makes so much sense in New York to start walking because the alternative is, okay, hop in an Uber or whatever and then sit there and don't move.
- [06:20]
Adam Met
Right, exactly.
- [06:22]
Buzz Knight
Yeah.
- [06:22]
Adam Met
It's a little better now with congestion pricing. It's a little better now, but still a lot of traffic.
- [06:28]
Buzz Knight
We have tons to discuss. We want to talk about the great new book Amplify. We want to talk about your amazing commencement speech at. At Columbia. We certain want to talk about ajr. But I do want to ask you, I know Washington Square in New York is of great influence to you over your life and certainly your brother's life musically as well. Do you remember the first time you walked into Washington Square and saw whatever was going on on that particular day?
- [07:06]
Adam Met
Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's so many memories that have combined in my mind, because the first thing that really comes to mind is all of the different street performers in Washington Square Park. And mind you, this was during the day, because at night, the people who were in Washington Square park are a little bit different. They're trying to sell you something different, but during the day, they're trying to sell you a performance. So there were people who would do kind of acrobatic tricks and would flip over each other. There were people who set up puppet shows. There were people who were playing all different kinds of music, and everybody had their own space. It almost felt like a variety show when I was a kid that I could walk through the park and get all of this different entertainment. And so that really stuck out to me as a child. And I mean, as you know, we got our start street performing In Washington Square park as well. And the first couple of years that we did it, it was strange because it was almost like a business negotiation with the other street performers. We're going to start our set now, then we'll pause while they get to go. And it was a much more complex system than you even think about street performing could be. But I think that was probably my first impression of the park, that it was an overwhelming cacophony of the senses.
- [08:19]
Buzz Knight
Did your parents give you and your brothers a long leash? And if so, was that key to creative expression years later, that you still are so amazing at?
- [08:34]
Adam Met
They did give us a long creative leash, absolutely. So our dad was a huge music fan growing up. He had quite a sizable vinyl collection. And so we started listening to things like the Beach Boys and Peter, Paul and Mary and John Denver and people like that on vinyl. But our parents were very supportive of any creative pursuit that we had. So I did a lot of theater when I was younger. I did some voiceover work, and then we kind of fell into the music because of being in the theater world. Something I don't talk about often is that I was a professional dancer before I got into the music world. I was a professional tap dancer, and I ran a tap dance company, and we toured around the world. So creativity and expression through all of these different modes of art was something that we were not only encouraged to do, but given the kind of full space to do as we were growing up.
- [09:29]
Buzz Knight
Was there a first live concert experience that really knocked you out?
- [09:36]
Adam Met
Yeah, absolutely. So I love that you asked me the first question that you did, because seeing Paul Simon live at Bam at Brooklyn Academy of Music with Josh Groban as his opener, and then Josh Groban coming back on stage and performing with him. When I was a kid, that was a transformative experience. Seeing the person sing the songs that I grew up listening to on vinyl on my dad's record player, and then seeing him live with my family, I will absolutely never forget that.
- [10:08]
Buzz Knight
And that. Yeah, I mean, the fact that this is locked in your brain forever fuels your passion, fuels your curiosity further around all other types of music, right?
- [10:22]
Adam Met
Absolutely. I mean, you think about Paul Simon, he has experimented with so many different kinds of music and so many different kinds of instrumentation and production, but the thing that stays consistent with him is the equal parts of simplicity and complexity of the lyrics. He plays with the listener just as much as he wants the listener to take what he's saying very seriously. So he tells very specific stories, but tells them in a Way that feels like popcorn to the ear and also tells them in a way that are repeatable and shareable. I mean, think of something like Me and Julio. That song is just so crispy in its lyrics, but the lyrics are so impactful and true, and they're kind of about the neighborhood where he grew up. So he is very consistent in lyrics, but very. He takes a lot of creative liberties in terms of his experimentation with production and instrumentation. So you really know when you're hearing a Paul Simon song, and that's because of the vocal and the lyrics, but the fact that he does get to have this playground of audio, and it's something that was really inspiring to me.
- [11:39]
Buzz Knight
I don't know about you. There's one of his songs, there's so many that ring true, but there's one for the way the world is now and the way the country is now that I think about all the time. It's an American tune, and it's. It's just so poignant and. And beautiful. And, I mean, I. I try to think, though, when he wrote that, what the world was like at that time, that would have influenced it and if he wrote it now, how much different the song may have been.
- [12:16]
Adam Met
Yeah, I think that. I mean, musicians, artists, sculptors, dancers, painters, people who create theater, A lot of what they do is reflect on the world around them, and they hold up a mirror to what society is going through. But at the same time, there are all of these people who project their own solutions or questions onto. Onto the world using their art. And I think that a lot of artists are very intentional about the way that they do that, meaning they decide whether, okay, this piece of art that I'm doing is going to be a mirror to society, so society can see what they're going through and just have a moment to reflect. And then they can also be intentional about something like protest music. Right. We need to stand up and fight. We need to band together. There have been periods in time where protest music has kind of rode this. This wave of popularity. In the 1970s, hugely popular. 20% of the Billboard Hot 100 was protest music. And now we would say that would never happen. Right. But if you listen to the Billboard Hot 100 now, I argue that there's even more protest music on it now. Even though those songs in their entirety are not protest songs, There are lines here and there about that reflection of society. I think artists can't help but write about the things that are going on in their lives and in their world. And we go through periods in music where they're kind of big pop songs that are very general and so everyone can relate to them. But we're in a moment now where storytelling has become king. Right. People want to tell their own stories in a way that other people can see themselves in it. And so I think right now, in terms of how we think about songs, reflecting on society and then reflecting society, I think more than ever, we're seeing artists engage with what it means to be making art in 2025.
- [14:25]
Buzz Knight
I love in amplify how you, you know, you focus on authentic storytelling, and in particular, you highlight a couple of people. Certainly Bob Dylan is a part of that highlighting, but you also highlight Phil Oaks as well. And, you know, Phil back then stood really in his own. His own camp when it came to how fiercely free he felt about speaking about things. You make mention of. Of here's to the state of Mississippi, and then here's Phil using comedy and rewriting that song and creating here's to the state of Richard Nixon.
- [15:15]
Adam Met
Yeah.
- [15:17]
Buzz Knight
And he. But he. He stood on. On that ledge often by himself.
- [15:24]
Adam Met
Yeah. I mean, even Bob Dylan was critical of him for going too far. He called Bob Dylan, called Phil Oaks a singing journalist. Right. And so what kind of thing does that evoke? You know, if you're somebody who's an artist, but you're also being called a journalist, you're making your. Your sharing facts, you're being very direct, and you're letting the audience kind of pull their own conclusions out of what you're saying, but you're being. You're being very honest. And I think that that's something that we don't see so much anymore in art, that blatantness that Phil had. And so for people who are listening who don't know who Phil Ochs is, because I know that he is a less common name than Bob Dylan. He's one of my favorite artists of all time. All of his albums are great, but there's a story. So my uncle and my dad saw Phil Oaks downtown in New York City one of his final performances, and he actually ended up committing suicide a few weeks later after that performance that he saw them. But he was completely out of his mind during that performance, apparently. Again, I'm hearing this secondhand, but he was so drunk, couldn't remember any of the lyrics. Everything he did like up until that point was with so much intentionality, engaging around the Democratic National Convention, really participating in everything that he felt could be better in America. He saw what was going on and reflected on it. Through his art. So please go listen to Phil Oaks.
- [17:01]
Buzz Knight
I couldn't wait to share this with you and the audience. I believe one of the first mass organized ticketed event protest concerts was organized by Phil and some others at Madison Square Garden. It was called An Evening with Salvador Allende right after the Chilean overthrow and all sorts of people played at that, from Dylan to Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie and but it was a Phil moment because Phil was one of the instigators that brought that whole crew together and it was, it was quite a night. I was a nerdy fan who came from Stanford, Connecticut, took the train down and went by myself actually and saw this show at Madison Square Garden and it was pretty, pretty wild. I have to say.
- [18:01]
Adam Met
I'm so jealous. I am so jealous. That sounds incredible. We'll be right back with more of.
- [18:08]
Greenlight Announcer
The Taking a Walk podcast.
- [18:10]
Buzz Knight
This episode of Taking a Walk is.
- [18:12]
Tom Brokaw
Brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether I'm booking my next vacation or going to a concert, Chase Sapphire Reserve is my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Travel is one of the most precious things in my life and the memories of each of the experiences live on forever. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows me to travel with ease with a 300 travel credit and access to a curated collection of hotels through the edit. So no matter where I'm walking, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [19:03]
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- [19:34]
Jenny Garth
Is Jenny Garth from I Do Part 2 Ozempic in a Pill. It's Oral Semaglutide and is now available from FutureHealth. Go to futurehealth.com to get affordable access to oral Semaglutide, Ozempic and Zeppbound for only three $3 a day. No insurance needed. Visit futurehealth.com future without the e to start losing this week. Future Health Weight Loss Data Based on independent study sponsored by Future Health Future health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [20:04]
Adam Met
The NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed.
- [20:07]
Tom Brokaw
Down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw. We hope to see you back here.
- [20:10]
Adam Met
I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamatz is there force firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a constant and from one era to the next. Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.
- [20:34]
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- [21:39]
Adam Met
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
- [21:42]
Buzz Knight
So the focus, among other things in the book Amplify is certainly community building and really showcasing specific ways to be able to do that from your experiences and certainly the band's experience experiences. Still. Do you think community building has sort of become a little bit of buzzword bingo if you will? Because I know with you one thing that irritates you is meetings that ultimately have no action that initiates from that meeting.
- [22:26]
Adam Met
Are you taking that from the commencement speech that I offered at Columbia?
- [22:30]
Buzz Knight
Very possibly, yeah.
- [22:33]
Adam Met
Yeah, community building. So when I say community building, I don't mean it for the sake of building a community. And I know that sounds strange, but community building happens through action and happens through reaction and happens because of the things that people actually do. I think there's a difference in saying let's, you know, do something for the sake of doing something as opposed to let's do something on our way to trying to get something done. And that was pretty vague. So I'll give you an example. Let's use the idea of music, right? There are fan clubs in music and people say, I want to create a group of fans and we're going to get together and talk about the music and discuss what we like about it. Things like that. Great. That's building a community, right? There's nothing kind of further to it. But if you're doing something like that, creating a mini fan club for a band that's up and coming, like we were a handful of years ago, one of the amazing things that can effectively build a community is to take a group of people who are like minded and have them work towards something bigger. For example, when we went to Boston, the first time we went to Boston, we played a place called the Red Room. And it was a really tiny music venue and we sold like a dozen tickets. The second time we came back, we couldn't play any video, so we played the Red Room again. But some of these fan groups had started to form and they took it on as their responsibility to spread the word about us. They shared with their friends and their family. They put up posters around the city, they went to the colleges and the high schools that show completely sold out over 200 people. And so that built even more of a tight knit community among those fans because they took ownership over that process and they were actually able to achieve something together. So does that make sense the difference if we can actually use the community for something as opposed to just building it for the sake?
- [24:38]
Buzz Knight
Makes total sense. The application that, you know, your band applied certainly was the creation of, of, you know, one of the COVID art pieces. And yes, you basically gave that ownership, you know, brilliantly, to the, to the fans. How much science are you using when you're applying some of this? And I'll give you a specific example referencing that question. I know around Covid, the ban ended up finding a way to pay for medical treatment for people who, who were in particular need. Were you. This is the, the data nerd in me now asking, were you able to go into a database of sorts that you guys had created and go right down to zip codes where you knew fans were?
- [25:32]
Adam Met
Yeah. So that's one of the amazing things about building a fan base. The way we have is that we know exactly how many tickets we can sell in each city. We know exactly where our fans are. From the data that we gather from places like Spotify and other music streaming services, or places like Instagram and TikTok, we really know the amount that fans are engaging and exactly where they are. So in this project that we did during COVID we did a big fundraiser specifically for people in the zip codes where we knew that we had the largest concentration of fans. And these people were impacted by crippling medical debt related to Covid. So we ended up partnering with this organization called RIP Medical Debt, which multiplies the donations that you get by buying up medical debt for one penny on the dollar. So for the amount of money that we raised, we ended up alleviating over $7.5 million worth of medical debt in the communities where we have the most fams. So it was all very intentional. We wanted to make sure that our community that had supported us for so long, we were going back and supporting them.
- [26:48]
Buzz Knight
There's so much in the book that I think it's great for, you know, musicians that are trying to build their. Their brand, podcasters trying to build their brand. I come out of radio, so, you know, radio stations or personalities trying to, you know, grow their brand. And you talk also about something really important, and maybe you could expand on it. The importance of super fans and what they kind of mean to all this.
- [27:21]
Adam Met
Yeah, there is nothing like a super fan. So we have. We have a lot of superfans, but one in particular that I write about a lot in the book is this young woman named Mel. And she essentially took our fan base and grew it to the point that fans were engaging in a much deeper level, more than we ever could have engaged with the fans. She built all of these activities with them. She built incentive programs. She built ways for them to bring other people into the fan base. And this model that she developed kind of unknowingly, traditionally, when you're in activism or advocacy or you're in music, you're trying to move people up this ladder of engagement. You know, they take one step, they hear a song, and then if they go home and they buy a concert ticket, they move up another rung. If they follow you on Instagram, they move up another rung on that slider. This is not the model that works anymore in music or in advocacy. The model that we found that works really well looks more like a hurricane than a ladder and a hurricane, because when people first start engaging with an artist or with a cause, you want to bring them in really close, give them all of the tools to then have them go back out in the world and be evangelizers for the movement. And movement could be for music or advocacy. It really is building a movement for both of them. And when you give them the tools, they feel ownership over it in a way that they become evangelizers. They want to share their little secret with the world that is so much more powerful than any amount of ads that you can run on Instagram.
- [29:04]
Buzz Knight
So I know as this book tour for Amplify will be rolling out, you've made it public to your fan base and AJR's fan base that you're going to be. Not at all the shows.
- [29:18]
Adam Met
Yes.
- [29:19]
Buzz Knight
When AJR is out on the. On the road.
- [29:22]
Adam Met
Yes.
- [29:23]
Buzz Knight
I hear a big collective sigh from. From the audience as. As I'm delivering that in case they didn't know. Yeah, but you've been very transparent and the band's been very transparent about that. What's been the reaction to you sitting some shows out?
- [29:42]
Adam Met
So it's really been bittersweet. Obviously, fans are disappointed that I'm not going to be at some of the shows, but one of the things that's been really important to me over the last bunch of years is bringing fans along with me on my journey. As I've been working on my Master's and my PhD, as I started teaching, as I've been working with governments around the world on their climate policies. And so they know every step of the way everything that I've been doing and how I've been growing my work outside of the band. So just as much as I see the disappointment that I'm not going to be there, they've also been so supportive. I mean, if you look at the post that we did, when I announced that I wasn't going to be doing all of the shows, there were thousands of comments across social media just so supportive that I'm going to do this work. And a lot of them want to join me. The number of people who have written me emails or DMs saying that they started studying environmental science because I was the one who introduced the field to them. Even if there are just a handful of those people, then I've done my work. Right. I am proud and I am satisfied that that's the work that's been done. But at the same time, there is this whole additional journey in the climate space that I'm taking with this book and this tour and all the other work that I'm doing. And they've been right there with me. And it takes a while and it's very Weird, right? For an artist to say, okay, you know, we have tons of fans. We've sold out Madison Square Garden multiple times. We've sold out TD Garden multiple times. And now I'm going to go work in climate policy. That's a weird thing for fans to see. But the fact that they've been there and so supportive, I can't thank them enough.
- [31:29]
Buzz Knight
So I want to close on the commencement speech. Look, we're at a really, you know, difficult time. There's many folks who have lost sense of optimism about, you know, where things are heading. And one of my takeaways from your great speech was I think you have a different outlook in terms of where there is some optimism, how folks can be activated, how important it is, whether it be in the largest election or the smallest election, to show up and be involved. Can you talk a little bit about that?
- [32:11]
Adam Met
Sure. I spend a lot of time traveling around the country and the world and the number one question that I get from fans and from people at protests, events, community meetings is what can I do? I want to participate. What can I do? It doesn't feel accessible to them. Climate change is not accessible to them. It's big, it's existential. What does 1.5 degrees Celsius even mean? Right. The people who make the decisions about the future of your community, of your city, of your state, happen at the most local of levels. Yes, of course every four years we both vote for a president. Of course, every two years we have a midterm election. But between that, there are hundreds and hundreds of elections around the country that are voting people into office that are at the state level. So state senate and state assembly and, and even more at the local level, community boards. These boards make such impactful decisions on your day to day lives. They make decisions about zoning, they make decisions about where you're going to put this petrochemical plant. They make decisions about local transportation. Some of these people, when they're running in these elections, win by 10 or 12 votes. And this is one of the things that I mentioned in the commencement speech. Your power at the local level is thousands of times more than your power at the federal level. I'm not saying don't vote in a federal election, but my call to action for you would be go look up when your next local election is and look at the people who are running because that is going to make some of the biggest difference in your own life.
- [33:56]
Buzz Knight
Adamet, congratulations on amplify and, and thanks for that work. But also all your other work and this little band called AJR as well. Thank you for for that and thanks for being on Taking a Walk. I really enjoyed it.
- [34:10]
Adam Met
Thank you so much for having me. This was fantastic.
- [34:13]
Greenlight Announcer
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- [34:19]
Adam Met
Friends and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the.
- [34:25]
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- [34:53]
Buzz Knight
Flight to Mexico now boarding. Oh that's me.
- [34:56]
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That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. For more information visit americanexpress.com with Amex.
- [35:02]
Greenlight Announcer
Get this Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, US parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat Start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free trial@greenlight.com iheart greenlight.com iheart behind every.
- [35:34]
Jenny Garth
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- [36:35]
Cindy Crawford
You have a long list of things to deal with. Check dry eye symptoms off with Refresh.
- [36:40]
Jenny Garth
Relieva PF Extra Lubricant eye Drops Offering.
- [36:44]
Cindy Crawford
An advanced formula to soothe and hydrate.
- [36:46]
Adam Met
Your dry eyes, Refresh Relieva PF Extra includes moisture locking technology that prevents further.
- [36:52]
Cindy Crawford
Irritation and gives you lasting relief. You deserve relief from your dry eye symptoms and your eyes deserve extra.
- [37:00]
Adam Met
Find Refresh online or in the Eye.
- [37:02]
Cindy Crawford
Drop section at all major retailers.
- [37:04]
Adam Met
FSA and HSA eligible.
- [37:06]
American Express Announcer
This is an I Heart podcast.