Talkin’ Cowboys: Backed into a Corner

Summary

Podcast Summary: Talkin' Cowboys – “Backed into a Corner”

Date: June 4, 2026
Hosts: Kyle Yeomans, Patrik Walker, Josh Rodriguez (with shoutouts to Isaiah Stanback and Chris Beam)
Theme:
A lively, insight-packed discussion breaking down Cowboys offseason moves, wide receiver depth, coaching changes, OTA (organized team activities) storylines, and major NFL news impacting Dallas’ 2026 campaign. True to form, the team combines barbershop banter with film-room depth, analyzing roster competitions and previewing what to watch as the new-look Cowboys take shape.

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Main Topics Overview

• News & notes from Cowboys HQ and around the NFL
• Paris Campbell’s retirement and impact on the WR room
• In-depth look at new WR signings (Romello Brinson and Jaden Smith)
• Special teams and WR depth: who makes the cut?
• Major NFL moves: Myles Garrett to the Rams, AJ Brown traded
• The state of the Eagles post-AJ Brown, and implications for the NFC East
• Players and positions with most to prove in OTAs: linebacker chaos, corner competition, and O-line questions
• Coaching staff preview: what to watch for from new DC Christian Parker's scheme
• Key training camp and OTA battles: RB2, nickel corner, special teams

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cowboys News & Roster Notes (03:05–10:57)

• Paris Campbell Retirement:

  • Campbell, a veteran WR with a good reputation, retires before training camp.
  • Created open roster spots, filled immediately by two signings:
    • Romello Brinson (SMU): Downfield threat, 6'2", 190 lbs
    • Jaden Smith (Tarleton/Nevada): Big-bodied, 6'6", 210 lbs, contested-catch specialist
  • Yeomans on Campbell:
    • “He was always a contributor ... I thought that would be his role in 2025. The emergence of Ryan Flournoy and some depth guys probably hindered his chances.” (06:33)
    • Campbell is considering a broadcasting career.

• WR Depth Battle:

  • 13 receivers on the roster, fighting for 4-5 spots.
  • Special teams contributions crucial for fringe WRs like Brinson and Smith.
  • “There’s a reason they brought in Brinson and Smith: special teams.” – Yeomans (09:58)
  • Valdez Scantling and Turpin also add complexity to the cut.

• Full 90-man roster:

  • “I would like to see one spot have remained free for a possible trade ... but that’s a conversation for another day.” – Walker (05:21)

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Major NFL Moves Affecting Cowboys (10:59–18:36)

• Myles Garrett traded to the Rams:

  • “Obviously, it takes a Super Bowl contender in the Rams as they were structured last season ... and now you add the best pass rusher in the NFL.” – Walker (11:25)
  • Rams defense could feature both Garrett and Aaron Donald (who hasn’t ruled out coming back).
  • Cowboys face Rams Week 15, after their bye—significant challenge for the offensive line.

• AJ Brown traded to the Patriots:

  • Big move: “AJ Brown no longer an Eagle, no longer the NFC East. Cowboys to meet AJ Brown ... would have to be in the playoffs at some point.” – Walker (13:55)
  • Eagles now feature Devonta Smith and rookie Makai Lemon—both similar “archetype” WRs, lacking Brown’s physicality.
  • “There’s no way anyone can objectively say you lose a receiver like that and you’re not worse by default.” – Walker (14:40)

• Analysis of Eagles’ Decline:

  • “They’re not bad. They’re just worse than they were before AJ Brown got traded.” – Rodriguez (15:31–15:33)
  • Pressure on the Cowboys to capitalize on this window—especially early in the season (first meeting vs. Eagles is Week 7).

• Schedule Notables:

  • Cowboys play the Rams in Week 15 after a bye—extra time to prepare for the new defensive front.

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Most to Prove in OTAs: Positional Deep Dives (23:20–38:10)

Linebacker Room:

• Demarvion Overshown:
  • “He hasn’t played all 17 games ... the whole room’s got a lot to prove.” – Rodriguez (24:04)
• D. Winners:
  • Needs to prove trade value and find a true role.
• “As of June, this is a room full of questions.” – Walker (24:47)

Offensive Line:

• Tyler Guyton:
  • “Can be a starting left tackle ... the problem is he’s not been on the field nearly enough.” – Walker (25:21)
  • If he can’t stay healthy entering year 3, he loses the spot and might not regain it.
  • Tyler Smith’s physique now “looks more like a tackle than a guard” – Yeomans (28:00)

Defensive Edge/OLB:

• Sam Williams:
  • “Williams has to have a breakout season. ... For me, Sam Williams has to have a breakout season and he has competition.” – Walker (30:01)
  • He’s been vocal the new scheme will help him—"you got what you asked for."

Cornerback Room:

• Savion (Savone) Rebel:
  • High expectations after return from college injury; “He’s always been the underdog ... I think he could step into that role and be a surprise player to most of the NFL.” – Yeomans (32:26)
• Kaylin Carson:
  • “There’s ... people I’ve talked to that don’t quite know if he’s going to be on this 53 man roster at the end of training camp.” – Rodriguez (33:47)
  • Has battled availability issues, similar to Guyton’s story.
• DaRon Bland:
  • Former All-Pro, must step up as the steady hand, especially following injuries and the departure of veteran CBs.
  • “This season is going to define what DaRon Bland will be or won’t be for this organization going forward. ... We’re paying you big money to be the guy.” – Walker (36:24, 38:04)
• Bottom line: “The biggest question mark on this team: linebacker, but the biggest pressure is on the cornerbacks to be available and grow.” – Yeomans (38:10)

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OTAs & Coaching Staff: What to Watch (43:13–51:42)

Christian Parker’s Defense:

• Scheme Watch:
  • Converting from 4-3 to 3-4, with heavy Nickel base (“Nickel is base now in the NFL.” – Walker 43:13)
  • “I want to see the multiplicity ... what does it look like if it’s a 5-2, versus a 3-4, who’s that personnel on the edges?” – Walker (43:13)
• New Staff:
  • Several new faces – especially on defense. “There’s so many new faces ... new to the Cowboys and new to the league.” – Walker (44:51)
• Important Note:
  • The group jokes about taking “notes” on stretching and rehab, since OTAs only show so much, but Yeomans pushes back: “They don’t have time to waste practices. ... I think we will see some early portions of it.” (46:27)

Key Position Battles:

• RB2 competition:
  • “It’s Jaden Blue’s to lose ... but the RBs coach was hammering home his excitement about Phil Mafah.” – Walker (48:15)
• Nickel corner and DB rotation:
  • “I want to see how they rotate in with the safeties. Jalen Thompson, Caleb Downs ... probably 60% of the time you’re going to be playing in nickel this season.” – Yeomans (50:13)
  • DaRon Bland’s foot feeling “way better” (per media day check-in).
• Special teams as path to roster for WRs and DBs.

Honorable Mention:

• “I want to see attitude!” – YouTube comment
• “I want to see competence.” – YouTube comment
  Panel agrees, aiming for more aggression and sharpness from the coaching staff this year.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s a reason they brought in Brinson and Smith: special teams.” – Yeomans (09:58)
• “There’s no way anyone can objectively say you lose a receiver like that and you’re not worse by default.” – Walker (14:40)
• “They’re not bad. They’re just worse than they were before AJ Brown got traded.” – Rodriguez (15:31–15:33)
• “Can DaRon Bland get back to form? ... We’re paying you big money to be the guy.” – Walker (36:24)
• “I think the fact that we all have a name in that cornerback room ... speaks for the entire [position] as a whole – they have to prove it.” – Yeomans (38:10)
• “The cornerbacks are backed into a corner.” – Yeomans (38:06)
• “They don’t have time to waste practices.” – Yeomans (46:27)
• “That RB2 battle is going to be live!” – Walker (50:13)
• “Nickel is a metal, baby!” – Yeomans (51:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:05–10:57 – Cowboys news, Paris Campbell retires, WR signings, WR room/roster math
• 10:59–18:36 – AJ Brown and Myles Garrett trades: Impact on NFC East and Rams, Eagles roster analysis
• 24:01–30:59 – Who has most to prove in OTAs? (LB, OL, Edge, CB)
• 31:43–38:10 – Cornerback room deep dive: Daron Bland, Rebel, Carson
• 43:13–51:42 – Coaching staff expectations; Christian Parker’s scheme; Training camp battles (RB2, nickel corner)
• 51:42–End – Final thoughts, laughs, and “nickel is a metal, baby!”

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Tone & Style

• Energetic, friendly, inside-joke-rich (barbershop banter)
• Honest, sometimes blunt (“I want to see competence”)
• Bold predictions, but grounded in football logic
• Panelists are clearly “one of the fans” – mix personal stories from media day, practice, etc.
• Plenty of laughs and meta references (“Tyler Smith looks like a tackle now ... that’s the most Tyron Smith lookalike I’ve seen”).

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Useful Takeaways for Listeners

• Cowboys’ WR and CB rooms are crowded, but most depth guys will need to make their mark on special teams.
• Linebacker and corner both feature high-upside candidates with “prove it or lose it” pressure.
• The defense will look different under Christian Parker; OTAs and preseason critical for sorting out position battles—especially with so many in flux.
• Major trades elsewhere (AJ Brown’s departure, Myles Garrett joining LA) both open and close doors for Cowboys on the 2026 path.
• RB2 and nickel corner are two battles to track — Jaydon Blue the early RB2 frontrunner, but Phil Mafah is pushing hard; nickel role might be Jalen Thompson’s to lose, with Caleb Downs in the wings.
• The window is open for Dallas to capitalize on NFC East turbulence—if the team’s young talent and new staff deliver quickly.

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Transcript

[Kyle Yeomans]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco.

[Patrick Walker]

CD Lamb.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Touchdown.

[Patrick Walker]

It's on. Jake Ferguson. Touchdown. Keeps it and he bangs it in for the touchdown.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. It's an OTA edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in, everybody, alongside Josh Rodriguez, Patrick Dosi, Walker, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman. So glad you're with us. Welcome in because guess what?

[Patrick Walker]

Guess what.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The Cowboys back on the practice field, baby.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I like those words.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We get to watch the veterans and the rookies together.

[Patrick Walker]

Together, together.

[Kyle Yeomans]

In at once. Maybe. Maybe once or twice. We'll see, man. But I can't wait. It's one of my favorite times of the year. We've got. We had media days on Monday and Tuesday. The the players were all in. Get to see some friendly faces again and get to talk to them for a little bit and just kind of catch up on how their summer's been. Then the OTAs come around. Starts to feel like football again. It's a little hot in the air down here in Frisco. You know, it's hot and humid. So it's perfect weather to try and maybe shed a couple pounds for those that are trying to do so by standing outside watching practice, AKA me. And then today we've got the rookie premiere a little bit later on after practice. So we get to talk to the rookies and go Q and A session to me and Isaiah. Stand back. He decided he didn't want to show up for the podcast, but he will

[Patrick Walker]

show up for the rookie.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But he'll be here for the rookie.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I mean, yeah, he's. He's where he's deserved to be. I mean, I guess he's. He screw this show, right? He just wants. Wants to get the.

[Patrick Walker]

The audacity.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's watching the rookies speak to us.

[Patrick Walker]

The audaciousness. Isaiah stick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Do you blame him, though?

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I wouldn't either. I don't want to talk to you guys either.

[Patrick Walker]

What's Isaiah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They just didn't ask me to.

[Patrick Walker]

Isaiah's middle name. I'm going to start addressing him by his middle Bartholomew when he starts.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Ramon, Ramon.

[Patrick Walker]

Ramon. Oh, he's the bad guy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Get a roll R there.

[Patrick Walker]

Have some fun with that. Oh, Chico, we gotta have some fun.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'll introduce him as that next week. Ramon alongside Josh Rodriguez. Patrick no see Walker, Isaiah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Ramon.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Stand back.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm high key mad that I was going to use his middle name to shade him. And it's. It's a badass middle name. It is completely badass and everything.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He throws it at you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It is pretty.

[Patrick Walker]

Sweet mama stand like you. You win. You did it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Got it.

[Patrick Walker]

Got it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Done. She knew it.

[Patrick Walker]

She knew ahead of time. She knew.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, let's get into some news and notes. Patrick, we got to catch up on.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

NBA Finals, guys.

[Patrick Walker]

We had a feud, right? And. Hell of a game.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was a great game.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It was great.

[Patrick Walker]

Hell of a game.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So it was game one of the Stanley cup final game, too.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That was crazy, too.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Who are you going for? Golden Knights.

[Patrick Walker]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, okay.

[Patrick Walker]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Go Carolina.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, all right. Carolina.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. I want somebody different.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's all. They haven't won it since, like, 06.

[Josh Rodriguez]

About the finals, who are you going for?

[Patrick Walker]

There's a.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There's probably some crossover Spurs, Cowboys fans. I'm a Mavs guy, and I married into a New York family. Go, Nicks. That's where I'm at.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't have a horse in the race. All I can tell you is the former Mav did a thing.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, he did. Jalen Brunson.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It does make me sad watching.

[Patrick Walker]

Of course it does. It's a. It's another reminder.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You had Luca and Jalen Brunson.

[Patrick Walker]

Incompetence of. You know.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Anyway.

[Patrick Walker]

All right, Cowboys news and notes. Quite a few. Let's start with what occurred shortly after our last Talking Cowboys episode. We sat here and we talked about how not everyone in the wide receiver room was going to make it to training camp. Well, by golly, by george, somebody decided to make the decision for the Cowboys. And that is one Paris Campbell. Paris Campbell has decided to hang up the cleats. He is going to retire. The Cowboys have placed him on the reserve retired list. A couple weeks ago, they already had one available roster spot. That created another. Cowboys then flipped and got two receivers in the process. They signed both Romeo Brinson.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Romello.

[Patrick Walker]

Romello. Brinson. Sorry. And Jaden Smith. And those are two guys that are going to come in and. And compete for a camp spot. I mean, basically, they're going to go through OTAs, they're going to go through mandatory minicamp. They're both going to hope that they're on the plane to Oxnard, and when they get to Oxnard, they're going to hope that they have a chance to prove something so that they can maybe stick in some capacity, even if it's just a practice squad. So the Cowboys Add those two guys, that brings them to 90 men, not counting the IPP International Pathway Program exemption. I'm going to butcher this name. Od. Did I pronounce that correctly? If I did not, feel free to correct me when you see me at practice today, my friend. But the Cowboys have a full roster right now. The that is interesting and you'd like to see that going in. I would like to see one spot have remained free for a possible trade. But you know, that's a conversation for another day. We'll see how that goes. But yeah. So now Cowboys OTAs are underway. Love seeing Tyron Smith in the building coaching up not only the the offensive line big, giving some pointers to the defensive line as well. Saw him working off to the side with Sam Williams and some of these young defensive ends and slash outside linebackers in Christian Parker scheme. Love to see. And that pretty much rounds up the Cowboys news. And then comes the NFL News.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Before we get into the NFL News, I do want to kind of hit some of those points.

[Patrick Walker]

Come on.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Odalay, by the way, Odalay Odalite is

[Patrick Walker]

how you say it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So yeah, you were very close. Very close.

[Patrick Walker]

Yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I wanted not. Not it. So one the Paris Campbell News. That's disappointing to me because he was a veteran presence last year that you never really got to utilize. I just mentioned how media day was the other day. I caught up with him at media day last year and he was awesome. Just a good down to earth dude who of course played in Philadelphia. You hate seeing him on the opposite side every once in a while. He was never really the top guy, but he was always a contributor.

[Patrick Walker]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I thought that would be what his role would be in 2025. And it didn't end up that way because of the injury because he never really had a chance to get on the field. And then I thought maybe he could rebound at 26. I think the emergence of Ryan Flournoy and the addition of some of those guys in in the depth part of the wide receiver room probably hindered his chances to make the roster this year, even if he would have given him given it a shot. But I'm bummed that it came to the end the way that it did because I really liked Paris. He did tell me at one point that he wants to go into broadcasting when he's done. Oh wow. Paris hit me up. Let me know. We'll see what happens because he's got the personality to do it. So. But Romello Brinson and Jaden Smith are two guys that I saw play in college. Brinson, of course, at SMU and then Smith played at Nevada. I didn't have him at Nevada, but I had him when he was at Tarleton State because I do a lot of their games too. And both of which are very different in the way in the skill set that they're going to bring. Jaden Smith's that big bodied 6 foot 6,210 pound receiver who's going to go up and get it. Contested catch guys, great navigating on the sideline and using using his body to his advantage with a catch radius and like I said, the contested catch ability. Brinson's a smaller guy, but still not small. I don't think he's a slot guy. He's 6 to 190.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I worked over the middle of the field. Well, they used him in a number of different ways. Sometimes in the screen game. Not really. He was more of a downfield guy at smu. So a couple notes on those guys from seeing them in the past.

[Patrick Walker]

As you're talking about your scouting reports on those guys, you've spoken about what you love about them. What would you like to see them improve that would give them the best possible shot at, you know, somehow carving their way onto this?

[Kyle Yeomans]

I wouldn't classify either one of them as overly explosive.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Smith, it's because he's a big body guy. He's a little slow off the line of scrimmage when it comes to Brinson, he's got a little more burst, but I don't know if he's a polished route runner. And forgive me because I need to go back and watch the film. I'm just going based off of the notes that I had from play by play. But I don't know if he was necessarily an explosive player. But when I go back and look at it again, I'll do that this week. I'll talk about it again next week. But I think it's going to be tough to make this roster just because of what I just outlined for Paris Campbell. Because you have the addition of Anthony Smith in the room, they still like Trayshawn Holden in the room. They still like some of these guys at the back end of the roster. Fonte Turpin is going to fight for some possible offensive reps and then you've got three solidified receivers probably for the first time since it Was Gallup, Cooper and Lamb. Right. And that's probably the first time you've had three solidified guys at that position going into a season since those three were all healthy and good.

[Patrick Walker]

So put it to you this way. Thirteen. That's how many wide receivers are currently

[Kyle Yeomans]

on this roster and how many spots are they fighting for?

[Patrick Walker]

Probably four or five. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And you also have to consider who's going to be contributing most in special teams.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Special teams.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Granted you do have a Valdez scantling who has the, the, the rapport or the, the, the length in the league to be able to, you know, he has the career, obviously he has more games behind him the, the experience there. But in terms of helping on special teams, I think that is the biggest takeaway from this group here. It's like, how are they going to contribute? And if those guys aren't explosive, you know, that may hinder them in, in terms of special teams.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm glad you bring that up because I'm, I'm talking about from an offensive standpoint. There's a reason they brought in Brinson and Smith. Special teams.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But a 6 foot 6, 210 pound receiver that can run down the field on special teams, it gives you a little bit of option to work with. So I, I think that you bring up a phenomenal point there. I'm thinking offense, that's, that's why they're here.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. You know, of course the depth for

[Kyle Yeomans]

the wide receiver room and it's the

[Josh Rodriguez]

special teams element and also going to camp too. You need to have a lot of bodies at those skill positions that are able to, I mean, give you get reps all over the place because it's going to be a lot of practicing. I guess my concern is, you know, people listening that are like, you know, how are they going to contribute on, you know, against the New York Giants, Week one, It's like, okay, let's, let's back tap the brakes a little bit.

[Patrick Walker]

There is little chance that they will.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Exactly. So just consider special teams. Look at preseason. That's kind of where they're going to make their bones.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And if they achieve more than that,

[Josh Rodriguez]

great, excellent and awesome.

[Patrick Walker]

Excellent.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It is definitely possible.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, let's go to your second piece of.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Two bombshells landed over these past couple of days or so. First and foremost, Miles Garrett, the reigning and two time NFL defensive player of the year.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Is he getting ready to play in Cleveland?

[Patrick Walker]

No, not anymore. He's, he's departed Cleveland. He's waving, he's retired Cloth. He's retiring from Cleveland.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, he's headed to the Los Angeles Rams. And of course the Cowboys face the rams on week 15.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So at least it's late. You got some time to prepare.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay, so there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there. But for the most part, I mean, obviously it takes a Super bowl contender in the Rams as they were structured last season with the reigning MVP and Matthew Stafford. Can I say it? Can I say it? Go Dogs. And now you add last one of the year and now you add the best pass rusher in the entire NFL to the defensive side of the ball. And it's has that organization so excited that Aaron Donald has not officially shut down any rumors or speculation.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, that was pretty wild.

[Patrick Walker]

He's not shutting it down. He's entertaining it. So there is a very realistic chance that the Cowboys could be facing the Los Angeles Rams defense that features both Myles Garrett and Aaron Donald. Which just goes back to what we talk about time and time again. Outside of Tyron Smith and Tyler Booker, we like the strides he's making. This offensive line better have their sugar honey together. You know the rest of that. Yeah, they better have it together to start the season going against the Giants. Yeah. And that defensive front. But they most certainly better have their chemistry and everything gel together by then. Second move actually takes a one of the best position players in the game out of the Cowboys way for now. And that would be one. A.J. brown has been traded from the Philadelphia Eagles. A.J. brown is now with the New England Patriots. Kind of interesting to see him reunite with Mike Vrabel who was the coach with the Tennessee Titans that traded away A.J. brown to the Eagles Eagles in the first place. But NFL. Go NFL. So now the Cowboys don't contend with A.J. brown at least two times a season, but of course they are going to be looking at Makai Lemon and Devonte Smith. But I also said this in in my write up on the impact piece after those two moves happened. Makai and Devonte are pretty much the same archetype when it comes to build. Right. AJ Brown is much more difficult to out physical, so to speak. So when A.J. brown is really on his game and really locked in, he actually like his quarterback. He's difficult task and matchup for smaller defensive backs. And there's not a lot, a lot of large defensive backs or lengthy tall defensive backs over the span of the NFL. Right. You know what I mean? Cowboys have a couple. We'll see how they can develop. But so AJ Brown no longer an Eagle, no longer the NFC East. Cowboys to meet AJ Brown, it would have to be in the playoffs at some point. He's in the afc, coming over to the nfc. Miles Garrett bombshell there. Cowboys better be ready for week 50.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Do you think that the Eagles took a hit with the trade by AJ Brown? Are they worse than they were in 2025 because of it?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think so, but I think it's an amalgam of things. I don't think it's just A.J. brown. I think it's also losing Christian Barker. I mean, you know, I'm being honest here, where it's like a solidified part of their defense that made their defense better, especially that secondary, particularly losing that aspect while also trying to, I guess, manage the cap within their office and then also play to the same level that they have been the last two years. Granted, they won the NFC east the last two years. They won a Super Bowl. I mean, you know, all the credit to them, I guess. But I do think they're a worse team than they were.

[Patrick Walker]

There's no way that anyone can logically, reasonably and objectively say that a team that's losing a receiver that racked up over 5,000 yards over the past four or five seasons and is still very much in their prime, you lose that player, you become worse by default. Now they're going to try to figure out how to regain that production. Kamakai Lemon step up and be an impact player of that magnitude in Year one. I don't know that he can, especially given the quarterback struggles of Jalen Hurts. That's why the offense runs through Saquon Barkley. So I don't. I think it's going to take them a while, and it might take them a couple of years to try to

[Josh Rodriguez]

regain that with a new offensive coordinator.

[Patrick Walker]

With a new offensive coordinator. So there's a lot of moving pieces there. But. But. Easy answer. The Eagles got worse when AJ Brown

[Josh Rodriguez]

got shipped to the new does that make them bad?

[Patrick Walker]

Patrick it doesn't make them bad. It just made them worse.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They're not bad.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're not bad. They're not bad.

[Patrick Walker]

They're just worse than they were before A.J. brown got traded.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And that was the question.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And Makai Lemon could end up being a superstar. We don't know that yet. We haven't seen it yet. But that's kind of the point that you're making is in 2026, for him to come in and immediately fill in the void of A.J. brown when he's not that type of Receiver, first off, and you have a guy on the opposite side that's now your de facto number one. And devonte Smith, who's never been a number one for the most part, he has the ability, but he's. He's always been kind of second on that list behind A.J.

[Josh Rodriguez]

brown.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You. You have the ability now to see a window of growth for them, which is great for them. Cool. Sounds good. But if you're the Cowboys, you have to capitalize on it. Yeah, you got to capitalize on. Okay, Kyle Lemon's a rookie. We got to, we got to find a way to make him pay at certain points in the season, and you get them kind of early. I mean, you get him week seven on the road, and playing October football in Philadelphia is a lot better than playing December football or January football in Philadelphia, and then you get them on Thanksgiving and you're done. So they have 12 weeks to figure it out, at least against the Cowboys specifically, if Makai Lemon can be that elite level wide receiver that they hope him to be as a first round pick.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, what you also have to love is that, you know, your current and newly hired defensive coordinator came from where I. Philadelphia. Philadelphia.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Right. Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

So while Christian Parker won't have any inside information on Makai Lemon, he has all the inside information on devontae Smith and some of those other guys. Dallas Goddard, for example. Jalen Hurts, obviously. So, I mean, that also works in the Cowboys favor in a, in a massive way. But bottom line, AJ Brown no longer being in the Eagles uniform absolutely made them a worst team. It does not make them a bad team. Yeah. But it most certainly drops them down a couple notches and makes them a little bit easier for the Cowboys to beat up on. From a defensive standpoint, if, if, if, if, if, if this defense can do what we want them to do and hope they can do, if.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I will say the writing was sort of on the wall for A.J. brown leaving Philadelphia in the offseason, obviously for the first. They were waiting for draft first. Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They're waiting for post junior worst kept secret in football.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And if you're the Cowboys, if the Cowboys organization, you're, you're, you're excited. The fact that, you know the Eagles are probably going to get just a little bit worse, that gives you some sort of edge in off season where you feel like you've built the right way and you've got the coaching staff where you want them to be, you have certain depth players that you feel like, all right, we can actually make a run at this thing and do what the Seahawks did a year ago and really turn things around. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, where the Los Angeles Rams decide to go all in again, figuratively and quite literally again, to getting Miles Garrett and solidifying.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What is. What do they say about those picks?

[Patrick Walker]

F those.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, that's what they say.

[Patrick Walker]

That's what they say.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That has to be disheartening in a way, but it's like there's no. There's no way to go but through.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Nope. You got to find a way to do it regardless. And like Patrick said, you're going to play them in week 15, so you better be ready. Got a little bit of time. You get a bye week going into it. Maybe. Maybe that'll help.

[Patrick Walker]

I think it can. Especially considering you might need some guys to kind of heal up a little bit before you go in. So that's the game. You, you know, you definitely want to go in that game. Fre.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What was the stat against Cleveland in week one of 24 where the last time that Dallas played Miles Garrett, it's like didn't. Didn't give up a sack. That's great. But then it was like that.

[Patrick Walker]

What.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What was it, like 16 pressures or something like that?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Well, last time we played Miles Garrett, there was one left tackle that kind of shut him down, if you know what I mean. Week 15, the rematch, baby.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, we will see.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Come on, Tyler.

[Patrick Walker]

Let's go real quick before we go to the break. It's just funny to me that they're talking Cowboys is such a great show that. That Eagles fans are watching. And I'm not going to say that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Are they really?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, yeah, there's an Eagles fan in for them. But yeah, we're not some real cow because you're a nobody. But thanks for watching.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I don't think about you at all.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, your. Your hate is not real because you're here. I'm nowhere that I hate.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's like the one time we've ever talked Eagles, specifically, it's because they made a big move and they traded away their best wide receiver.

[Patrick Walker]

But that's it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

When we take a break or after we take a break, we're going to talk some OTAs. We've got some OTA activity out on the field, and we're going to talk about what's going on, what we can expect, and then what we want to see from both the players and the coaches from this. This week's OTAs. More talking cowboys coming up right after

[Patrick Walker]

this Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools to expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help

[Kyle Yeomans]

you get the job done right.

[Patrick Walker]

We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you. We're united.

[Kyle Yeomans]

If you're looking for fresh American roasted coffee that gives back, you need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle Coffee. That's right, America's Coffee is now available in the coffee aisle of a grocery store near you. Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran founded with a mission to give back to those brave men and women who have served our nation. Every bag, box or can you purchase helps support that mission. Head to your local grocery store and roast yourself some Black Rifle Coffee today.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If you shout how about them Cowboys? You have that undeniable passion that's the heart of Cowboys Nation. And if you like to drink Dr. Pepper, you'll love the unique blend of its 23 flavors together. Your one of a kind fandom paired with the one of a kind taste of a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper is the game day lineup that can't be beat. Better yet, gather Your Cowboys and Dr. Pepper fan friends to watch the next game and crack open a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper for everyone. The wins will be even tastier. It's a pepper thing.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm home. Hey mom, before you ask, I've done my homework and the dishwasher's unloaded. Nice. Hey, can you. Hey hon.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, I've got the finale ready to play.

[Patrick Walker]

Here's your wine.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Wow. Isn't it nice not having to ask? We think so. That's why if there's a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. Guaranteed credit for Fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or for wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers.

[Patrick Walker]

Restrictions and exclusions apply.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See att.com guaranty for details. Back to talking Cowboys Hey Cowboys fans, 2026 schedule is here. Don't miss your chance to see the Cowboys live at AT and T Stadium with matchups against NFC rivals and lesser than the Eagles, the Giants and the Commanders. Plus the jags, Titans, Cardinals, 49ers and Buccaneers. Limited single game tickets are available [e-mail] the official primary ticketing partner of the Dallas Cowboys. Welcome Back in to Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company. The official copy of the Dallas Cowboys. This wasn't on the read, and I'm not being told to say this extra, but I did see that you can now get. It's like very close either this week or next week that you can buy single game tickets for that Brazil game.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah, I think it's together today.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Is it today that it's open?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Sorry, I don't always have to pre.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But wait on that. It's coming up. So if you want to go to Brazil and watch the Cowboys play, then there you go. They take on the Ravens in week three. Yeah, just keep an eye on it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If you want to go on Dallas Cowboys.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Thank you.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, if you're. If you just happen to be in Rio de Janeiro that weekend, you might as well catch a Cowboys game.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. Might as well hit up Patrick.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Say what's up to Patrick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. See what's going on.

[Patrick Walker]

Hit me up, Kyle. Maybe I'll limp around Rio with you. Yeah. Because I only. I got like one and a half legs right now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, let's get into some OTAs, gentlemen, shall we? Cowboys have been on the practice field this week. That's not new. They practiced on Monday and Tuesday. Now they practice again today.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They also had some optional. Optional team activities last week.

[Patrick Walker]

And what do voluntary mean?

[Kyle Yeomans]

It means optional.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So today Mingo mandatory is what it

[Patrick Walker]

means, if you know the quote.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The big thing is today we get to watch practice and we get to see what's going on here in a couple of minutes. So I'm going to start with players with the Most approved in OTAs. You talked about Jonathan Mingo last week and made the toy in the term, or coined the term in terms of Mingo mandatory.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Is he on that list in terms of players that have the most approved.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The most approved? No, he doesn't make my list for most approve. I feel like demarvi Nova shown is really high up. I mean, you're talking about a guy going into year four. He just signed with David Molaguetta. He's got a contract to start negotiating at the end of the season. But a guy that hasn't played all 17 games, to me, that is very impactful on what this team is considering going into the season because the linebacker spot isn't solid. We're here talking about how we kind of wish there was an open spot on the rosters, possibly after June 1st. I thought this is going to be a different show. I thought we're going to be talking about a new edition now that that isn't necessarily the case right now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Not yet.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Not yet. All things considered. I'm only talking about here and now, Fellers. I'm right here. I'm right now.

[Patrick Walker]

It's only June 3rd.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You have. You're aware your feet are planted.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm looking at what the linebacker room is right this second. And as far as things to prove, that whole room's got a lot of things to prove. Demarvanovichon is really high up on that list. Same with D winners. I feel like if I maybe because we don't know his role yet quite in our system, this will be a lot to figure out. But at least for him, I mean, I'm sure he has a lot to prove. He wants to prove to himself that he's worth the trade that the Cowboys made for him and to solidify what this defense is going to be going forward.

[Patrick Walker]

You know, for me, I'm going to go one on one, one on each side of the ball. Tyler Guyton. Tyler Guyton. Tyler Guyton. Tyler Guyton has taken strides when he's on the field. The problem is he's not been on the field nearly enough.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

Over the first two seasons he's missed far too many games because of a variety of injuries. And that's not counting the training camp snaps in Oxner he missed because I think he had the tight hamstring or something to that nature at that point. So he needs to remain available. I'm of the mindset that Tyler Guyton can be a starting left tackle in this league. However, he is now going into year three, Tyler gotten cannot remain on the field, which then means he can't make said strides forward. I believe that he loses the starting position and he does not regain it in year four.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's bold.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, that's bold.

[Patrick Walker]

I say that because the Cowboys are in a position. Schottenheimer, Clayton Adams, Connor Riley. They're in a position where they're already entering 2026. Letting you know that they're still trying to figure out the left tackle situation.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They.

[Patrick Walker]

They have a former first round pick from a couple of seasons talked about

[Kyle Yeomans]

it at the draft.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. And the fact that they are not closing, slamming, welding, shut the door on Tyler Smith possibly moving the left tackle tells you outright that they're still working through it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Is that who the. Who he would lose it to?

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I don't know that he. Let me say no, I don't know that I Don't believe that he would lose it to Tyler Smith because I do believe they don't want to move Tyler Smith and we know Tyler Smith doesn't want to move.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All that looks great.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I think there's. I think there's a buffer between if Tyler got in order to lose the left tackle spot and Tyler Smith becoming left tackle. And that buffer could be Nate Thomas. That buffer could be Drew. I mean, it could be. We don't know. But I think there's a buffer there. But nonetheless, can.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I can't go soon enough. He needs that get right game.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, the get right game.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm kidding, but that's fine.

[Patrick Walker]

Tyler Guy is get right game. Might be week one.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Maybe the Giants defensive line is just nasty work.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, that is tough. The rebuttal is. Mama Joe always told me, come on, mommy. Actions speak louder than words. And the. The words that are being spoken is we don't want to move Tyler Guyton to left tackle or excuse me, Tyler Smith to left tackle. We don't. He doesn't want to move to left tackle. He doesn't want to move from the left guard spot, which he's an all pro caliber player at. However, I caught a glimpse of Tyler Guyton the other day. That dude does not look like a left guard. He. He's in terms of shape and I'm sure this will come out today at some point whenever the media gets a first look at him too. He is in more of a tackle shape than I've ever seen.

[Patrick Walker]

Tyler Smith.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Tyler Smith. Yes. Oh, did I say guy? Sorry. So many. Tyler, man. It's why the schedule release was what

[Josh Rodriguez]

it was a whole video about it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Tyler Smith is. Who looks like a tackle now.

[Patrick Walker]

Whoa.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He. He is built like a tackle now. That doesn't mean that he can't play guard and he's not going to be great at guard. But there are some times where you talk about actions speak louder than words. It's not a negotiation if, hey, your body certainly fits the part as a tackle more than it does a guard. Maybe you're a little lighter than you were in 2025. Hey, maybe we should play you a guard and make it happen from there. That's not necessarily a negotiation. That's fact of how you were built in the off season. And at least at the moment, I wouldn't be shocked if he does play some tackle this year because he looks the part.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What has changed?

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's slimmer, it seems like, and it looks like he's built stronger like he's, he's leaner more than ever before. I could be wrong. It might just be a look of being in the building and being around him for the first time in a while. But I, I, my first thought was that's the most Tyron Smith look alike that I've seen since Tyron Smith.

[Patrick Walker]

Whoa.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And it's not, he's not to that level yet.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, of course.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But he's the closest I've seen in this building since.

[Patrick Walker]

All that does is go right back to my original point that Tyler Guyton, for me has the most to prove. Because especially if what Kyle is saying holds true and that Tyler Smith looks more of a left tackle. Well, Tyler Guy. And that's that much more pressure maybe on you to run right out of the gate in OTAS minicamp and most certainly training camp. Because now it would appear, if that's the case, it would appear that you don't have as much rope as you might have thought that you had. Maybe you thought that you'd have until, you know, the second quadrant of the season, but maybe you don't. Maybe you have until training camp. Training camp, preseason. You don't know. So, Tyler Guy, I really believe in my heart that the young man is capable. He just has to stay on the field and he knows it. We've had these conversations. He knows he has to stay healthy. And objectively speaking, if he can't stay healthy for a third consecutive season, the Cowboys will look for other options. They're already considering other options.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Kind of half.

[Patrick Walker]

We're talking about Tyler Smith and really quickly flipping to the other side of the ball is Sam Williams. For me, it's Sam Williams. This is a guy who set the sack record at Ole Miss, right? You come in, there's such high expectations, you're a second round pick and it just has not panned out outside of you being one of the best special teams players. But the Cowboys didn't draft him in the second round for him to be just an elite special teams player. And now they brought him back. He's on a one year deal. He absolutely has to prove it. And he's being more move to outside linebacker in this new scheme. So he has kind of a leg up to be able to succeed in this season, more so than the previous. But for me, Sam Williams has to have a breakout season and he has competition, right? You have Ezra who and you have Malachi Lawrence. Now you have competition. So for me there's a lot of

[Josh Rodriguez]

pressure and there's a lot, I mean, very vocal about how the scheme change is going to benefit him and, and suit him better. I mean I think that's definitely a part of it and, and you know, you got what you asked for man. And see where you step up from here.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was in great spirits the other day at media day. He was, he was smiling. He's happy. That's about one of the always been the case. Yeah, that's one of the lighter hearted Sam Williams I've seen, you know, in the building during his time here because it hasn't been easy on him. I mean pure and simple. Like you said, the expectations set for him from the outside have been high. I'm sure he hasn't lived up to him inside and what the expectations that he set for himself. So I think he's kind of stepping into a role this year where one it's make it or break it. You got to come in and you got to be able to have some success at that spot or else like you said about Tyler Guyton on the offensive side, you have to look at other options because now there are other options in the building and one is

[Patrick Walker]

a first round pick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Exactly. And you got to find a way to step up through that. So that's a great one. What do you it call to talk about? I think the most approved is Savone rebel in 2026 because 25 was not his year and we kind of knew that. Right. We kind of knew going into it that he was coming off of the major injury. He wasn't going to play a ton. He's a high caliber, high film guy, but he comes from a smaller program. I mean East Carolina is a quality football program. They play in the American Conference, which is arguably the fifth or sixth best conference in football, college football. And he was incredible enough, but he only played three games his final season.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So where, where is he now in the minds of Cowboys fans, A lot of Cowboys fans that I've talked to. Ah, Savone doesn't have it, doesn't have it ready to go. That's after just a couple of games and playing through injury and playing through, coming back quickly. He hasn't had the rehab this, this offseason. He hasn't had to do anything with that knee this offseason. He's taking care of business off the field. I've seen him in and out of the building more than anybody over the course of the last few months. He has been and just in his mindset he has been the underdog his entire life and it feels like now, after being heralded as he's going to be a great corner, he's a third round pick that we should have gotten in the first. It was all just the injury that held him back. Now he's back to being the underdog and I love that for him. And I think he could step into that role and be a surprise player to the most of the NFL. But for those who watch the college tape, it was there. It was all there, Link. The speed, the change of direction. I just hope he's able to do so now with a full Runway of an off season to land the plane and get right back into NFL form. And I think he could be a huge difference on the defensive side, especially with Christian Parker at the helm.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Kyle, I love you. I have to disagree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Come on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I have to disagree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Come on with it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think there's another guy in that same room that has more to prove. It's vulnerable.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Is it db?

[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, oh, wait.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Because we're talking about guys that are going to be on the roster that are going to be on the 53. There's one guy in that room that was drafted relatively high that you had high expectations for. He has a nickname after all. And there are a lot of people that I've talked to that don't quite know if he's going to be on this 53 man roster at the end of training camp. And that's Kaylin Carson talking about more to prove. I mean, this. Look, I just laid it out for you. Tell me why he doesn't have more to prove than one Savone Rebel.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I would agree to a certain extent. I think Savone Rebel has higher expectation,

[Josh Rodriguez]

a higher ceiling in a much higher ceiling, of course.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Whereas Kaylin Carson maybe came in and I think the expectations took a life of its own. He. I mean, he was a day three pick.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That number.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Keep that in. And the number.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, sure.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That plays a factor into the nickname. Played a factor into it. I think the expectations took off a little bit quicker than Kaylin Carson even. He probably intended or wanted for that to happen. And part of that was because he played well in that early training camp. And then the second part of that is he just hasn't been available. It goes back to the Tyler Guyton situation of it's been a shoulder, it's been a. What was it, a knee or a hip or whatever. There were lower body things there too. He. It's been little things here and there that have kept him off the field,

[Josh Rodriguez]

hindered his progress and hindered the growth

[Kyle Yeomans]

and stunted the growth. So while I do agree that he is fighting for a roster spot and he's. He's a guy that could be expendable whenever the cut down day comes and he's got a lot to prove this off season, I still think the step in the higher direction for Savone could be higher. But I do agree with everything you said and the expectations that were set and the way that it was lined up. It hasn't hit and so if he doesn't perform, he won't be wearing a Cowboys uniform.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm going to counter. Josh's counter to Kyle. This is actually kind of. This is kind of depressing because it's a combo breaker. Combo breaker. Seriously. Because you want these guys to have the killer instinct. Am I right? Sivone Revel, Cal laid it out. I agree wholeheartedly. Kaylin Carson, Josh laid it out. Kyle supported it. I agree wholeheartedly. Daron Bland. Yeah. Of those three names that we just talked about that we're talking about Duron Bland, Sivone Revel and Kaylin Carson, who is on their second contract. Okay. Who's the former first team on pro and Pro Bowler?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Who's the pick six king?

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was the Ron. Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Nine interceptions a couple seasons or so ago. But availability has suddenly become an issue and it's not. I don't know what's more worrisome, which is a separate conversation. Would you be more worried about a guy who was getting nicked and banged up in different areas or one who has a nagging issue? Devon Bland has a nagging issue with this foot. It required surgery last season to try to help get it right for this season. The last two seasons have been for him, throwaway seasons. He. He wants to take lessons from them, but he doesn't want to be defined by them. This season is going, in my opinion is going to define what Duron Bland will be or will not be for this organization going forward. He has to be the steady hand. This is a room full of young guys. And then throw Caleb Downs in there as. As you know, the versatile gu a room full of young defensive backs say for Malik Hooker and even Jalen Thompson. But Daron Bland has to be the one that you look at. While Sivone Revel is having his ups and downs, while Kaylin Carson is having his ups and downs in this contract year trying to figure things out. You got to be able to look at somebody in this cornerback room and say that's the guy who's making things Happen week in week, week out, play and play out. And has to be the veteran, former first team all pro pick, six king, nine interceptions a few seasons ago, who's on his second contract. So for me, for all of those reasons, can Duron Bland get back to form? It depends on where his foot is. Can. Can he get back to that with his foot? But if I'm the Cowboys, I'm looking at it as yes. Agree on Savone, agree on Kaylin. But Duron, we're paying you big money to be the guy. And to the point where we ship Trayvon out of here, you have to be the guy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So you're saying the cornerbacks are backed into a corner?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Ooh, let's go.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Come on now.

[Patrick Walker]

Cuts a bar.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The I. It's the case that we've talked about all offseason. Where is the biggest question mark on this team? Linebacker. Because of personnel.

[Patrick Walker]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And talent level at the, at the linebacker spot. I don't think anybody's challenging the talent level at corner. They're challenging the availability and the growth. Yes, that's. That's where there's a challenge. And so, yeah, I, I think the fact that we all have a name in that cornerback room and how they are backed into a corner speaks for the room. It speaks for the entire as a whole. They have to prove it as this defense continues to grow. And luckily there's a guy that knows a thing or two about cornerbacks that's leading the group going into 2026 and that works out well. I want to keep a conversation going about the OTAs and some of the superlatives. Let's talk about the coaching staff when we come back on the other side of the break because I do believe there are things that we are going to see and reveal from this coaching staff and how they're going to utilize players. Maybe some scheme questions and certain elements of this team that we don't know yet. Then we might learn when we go to practice today. More of talking cowboys coming up in a matter of moments. What would you like the power to do? Dig deep and ask it. Can you really live so far from the family you lean on? Will a broken nose break you or will it make you Diego Luna bank

[Patrick Walker]

of America champions U.S. men's national team player Diego Luna and everyone who dares

[Kyle Yeomans]

to ask, what would you like the power to do?

[Patrick Walker]

Bank of America proud to be the Official bank of US Soccer and FIFA World Cup 2026 bank of America NA

[Kyle Yeomans]

Member FDIC if you're looking for Fresh American roasted coffee that gives back. You need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle Coffee. That's right. America's coffee is now available in the coffee aisle of a grocery store near you. Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran founded with a mission to give back to those brave men and women who have served our nation. Every bag, box or can you purchase helps support that mission. Head to your local grocery store and roast yourself some Black Rifle Coffee today.

[Patrick Walker]

Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools, expertise, and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you

[Kyle Yeomans]

get the job done right.

[Patrick Walker]

We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you. Where are United? I'm home. Hey, Mom. Before you ask, I've done my homework and the dishwasher's unloaded. Nice. Hey, can you. Hey, hon.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, I've got the finale ready to play. Hey.

[Patrick Walker]

Here's your wine.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Wow. Isn't it nice not having to ask? We think so. That's why if there's a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. Guaranteed credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more, or for wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers.

[Patrick Walker]

Restrictions and exclusions apply.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See att.com guarantee for details. Back to Talking cowboys. This one's for you, Josh. This next read.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Zach Bryan is bringing With Heaven on Tour to AT&T Stadium on Saturday, August 22, with special guests M.G. linderman and Faye. Philly. We need pronunciations on this read. By the way, don't miss his biggest tour yet. Get your Tickets [e-mail] Thank you, Kyle. Yeah, that one's all you. Big Zach Brian.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Just for me.

[Patrick Walker]

Big Zach Bryan.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like Zach Brian. I don't know why y' all are laughing.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, no. An excellent act for AT&T Stadium.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm absolutely into the orange.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, he's got. He's got a couple hits.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I thought that was.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's headlining at and T Stadium. He's pretty big.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. No, he's excellent.

[Patrick Walker]

Pretty big.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't know.

[Josh Rodriguez]

M.G.

[Kyle Yeomans]

m.G. Linderman at all. And then Faye. It's F I L I. So Philly. Philly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I already don't like him.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Maybe a girl. Philly might be a female. I'M not entirely sure.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, nothing against Zach Bryant. I just thought that was a dig because of my. You.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You just like hard rock.

[Patrick Walker]

Like, I mean, he's a metal hit. Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I should have said not hard rock. Metal is what I should have said.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, hard rock, dude. You got a little metal horn. Hard rock, dude.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He likes it like little guitar and drums. It's great.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Check out the band Behemoth guys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He played that walking in one day and I was like, this is not what I want to hear at 8:45 in the morning. I was like, is you're crying. I need a little need to breathe or something like that. All right, let's talk about the coaching staff. OTAs, of course, already underway, but we'll get our first look today. What are some of the things you want to learn about what the coaching staff is going to do here in 2026?

[Patrick Walker]

Really? I mean, they're not going to show much of this, if at all, in the OTAs. But I'm really looking forward to seeing the multiplicity of Christian Parker's scheme. We know that he wants to convert it from a 43 to a 3 4, but we also know that in the NFL nowadays, Nicholas Base. Right. So keep that in mind as well. But they want to be able to, you know, have a three down man, front four five. You know, what does that look like if it's a 5:2 versus a 3:4, who's that personnel on the edges? You know, is it Sam Williams when it's more of a 43 and they're kind of keeping him to the true DE or when it's 3 4, are they giving him some burn as an OLB? So things like that. So for me, far and away, I'm, I'm staring at the defense. I'm staring at the construction of it, the scheme, the changes, the installations. I want to see where some of these guys like Sam Williams, whom I pointed out as a guy who has a lot to prove on the defensive side of the ball, what the, what does the utilization look like? And the same goes for Marisley. Afoul. He's being converted to an offensive linebacker. I'm sorry, outside linebacker. So I want to see, you know, what's his ability immediately to try to make an impact in that role. So for me, it's all defense. It's both from a personnel and definitely a coaching standpoint, especially with such an overhauled staff beneath Christian Parker, right off a defensive line coach, why does my brain keep going? Offense, defensive line coach, secondaries, coach, Ryan Smith, you bring in, you know, a new linebackers coach because Bonzi just was not getting the job done. There's so many new faces. And when I say new faces, I don't just mean new faces to the Cowboys, but new face. There's several new faces to the league.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

On the defensive side of the ball, I just want to see how it all comes together.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like one these. There's two comments right now in the YouTube chat that just made me chuckle a little bit. One of them says, I want to see attitude, which I completely agree. Want to see attitude get downhill. A little aggression. Yeah, that's great. The other one says, I want to see competence.

[Patrick Walker]

If it's not too much to ask.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think that's fair.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You. Last year, that felt like maybe that didn't happen as much. Maybe, maybe. But then this year, I'm hoping. Yeah, I am being nice. I'm. I'm hoping that sometimes this year that that'll be a. A fleeting memory that we think about

[Josh Rodriguez]

that as far as, like, OTAs and what, you know, the. The media is going to be able to see today. I mean, I've been going to the chiropractor a lot. You know, like, certain stretches would, you know, like kind of carrying those over into my own regimen. Yeah, I'll take some notes on those because that's all we're going to see today.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm going to take a picture of you, like, taking notes. Yeah. Outstanding. Out with the rest of the media. He'll have everybody behind him, like, in a row. Like, everybody's just kind of talking, chatting. Josh is super intent on the stretching port.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

But what's going to be key is the sketches that he puts along with the notes to make sure that he remembers exactly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Drawing them like my French girls.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Are you a diagram guy?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll storyboard them out.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know, that makes sense.

[Patrick Walker]

There you go.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And put them in order.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think that's all we're gonna see. I mean, they're not going to give us an indication on what the defense is going to look like, which is what we're all clamoring for. We're desperately trying to get a look

[Patrick Walker]

at, but we'll get closer to disagree, really.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They don't have time to waste practices. They don't have time in the off season. The way that the NFL and the CBA and everything, It's. You got to take advantage of everything. And this is a different availability than,

[Josh Rodriguez]

like, typical practice of the season where

[Kyle Yeomans]

we only get 15 minutes and it's special teams and stretching. This is. We get to watch practice and it's closer to training camp. I don't think they can afford to waste any time. So I, I think we will see maybe the early portions of it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But I don't know if we're going to see any sort of cloaking from a coaching staff.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I like to hear that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So if that's the case, what is the one element that you want to.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You want an answer to where defensive players are in the scheme, depending on what setup that they're using. Like we're talking about nickel a lot. You're talking about three, four. I want to see kind of where these players are positioned and I guess overall like what it looks like.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You know what I mean, seeing those players. I mean there's a lot of terminal turnover there on the defense. I want to see these rookies there in place for the first time. I want to see Caleb Downs.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, you do.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I like it.

[Patrick Walker]

I want to see Caleb Downs. I want to see Jaylen Thompson. You know, I just, I want to see these guys, especially these two guys because they're going to be utilized in such a versatile way. And I'm just, I'm also interested, and I'll leave it on this. I'm interested to see who from my POV starts to take the, the front runner position as the possible green dot. Will it be a defensive back like Jalen Thompson, Caleb Downs, or will it in fact be a linebacker?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, you know What? I got one RB2. That's a good one. I think that's one spicy. I think that's one to really look out for.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Wide open.

[Patrick Walker]

It's.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I mean, it's Jaden Blues to lose at this point. Right. Blues to lose. You would think, you'd think, especially after

[Patrick Walker]

that Giants game, some insight to the first half of that giant insight to this. I had a great conversation with, with Foster, the running backs coach and he is very high on Jay and Blue as he has been. But it was interesting to me as I was having this RB2 conversation with him. Kind of off the cuff, off the record. So I'm not going to say any quotes or anything thing, but I will say that he was really hammering home his excitement to see Phil Mafa.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

This season. So I just simply say that to say it very well could be Jay and Blue spot to lose. But you're talking about 51, 49. I mean they really anticipate Phil Moffa

[Kyle Yeomans]

making some waves and don't forget like they did last year about Millie Davis. I mean, this is a three person fight for one spot. Yeah, it's Javante Williams and then it's considerable question mark right after that. And if it's a question mark, then they're going to get reps, they're going to get carries, they're going to get opportunities in certain situations and packages and things like that. So this is, you're right, that's a crucial battle that starts really this week, last week, whenever they started back in the OTA process. And then next week in minicamp, it's going to take off as well.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think of training camp last year in terms of trying desperately to see what Javante Williams was going to do and how he's going to contribute because it wasn't a solidified position. I mean, granted, like you got him and you're assuming that he's going to be RB1.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sure.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I think for a good portion of training camp last year, we're like, we're not seeing enough of him to really be like, oh yeah, this is the guy for sure. The offense is going to run through this guy in a way. Now that that is solidified, he is that guy. Now I think more opportunities will be given if they don't want to put him out there in certain reps, you know, or lessen his reps because it's like, oh no, he's, he's, he's good. Like we're, we're solid, we're solidified there. And yeah, more reps all round.

[Patrick Walker]

That RV2 battle is going to be live.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I want to see the rotation at nickel. I want to see how they rotate in with the safeties. Jalen Thompson, of course, Caleb Downs, how they rotate in with corners. Are they going to throw. I don't know how active Duron Bland is going to be. Which, by the way, to add to your point earlier, I ran into him at media day and asked him.

[Patrick Walker]

You didn't actually run into him though?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No. Physically, yeah, wouldn't do that. I walked past him at media day and checked in, said, hey, how's it going? Duron asked him how the foot was. He said it's way better, way better than what it was last year. So I like those words. He said he's got a lot more time to recover. He feels really good. And of course, I don't know if he'll be out on the practice field yet. Probably not, I would assume, but we'll see what happens in terms of his availability. But outside of him, Kobe, Durant, some of these other corners that they've brought in throughout the offseason. Maybe you start to see rotations between Carson and Rebel and whoever you wanted to throw inside just to see what that nickel looks like. Because I think you're going to play a lot of that this season. Probably 60% of the time you're going to be playing a 4, 2, 5, front and that nickel. And so you're going to have to have a rotation there, there. And I want to know who the number one guy is there. I'm assuming it's probably going to be Jalen Thompson until Caleb Downs takes it, but I will finally get the opportunity to look at it as well. You know what nickel is, right?

[Josh Rodriguez]

What's that?

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's a metal. It's a metal, baby. And that's going to do it for us on Talking Cowboys today.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Tiny Horns rock.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Cowboys fans make it happen this week. We'll be back next week to break it down for you, tell you all that we saw in OTA practices and cannot wait to do so for Josh Rodriguez, Mr. Metal himself for for Patrick Noi Walker, Chris Beman back and Kyle Ymans. We'll see you next week with more Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

[Patrick Walker]

How about this Cowboys.