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Go cowboys.
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Sam.
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Sa.
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The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
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This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from Dallas Cowboys training camp in Oxnard, California.
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CD Lamb.
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Touchdown.
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Boom over show.
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Touchdown.
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Keeps it and he bangs it into the touchdown.
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And now your hosts, Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Nicole Hutchinson.
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B
What it do Cowboys nation? Welcome in to Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. I'm your new host going forward, Nicole Hutchinson. We got Patrick no see Walker. We got Josh Rodriguez.
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Hey, what's up y'?
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All?
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B
How y' all doing?
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Get a load of this.
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And the new
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host of talking, host of Talking Cowboys and Cole Hutchins.
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I'm so glad I got to be a part of the fun, man.
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E
Wake up.
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Where's it before?
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B
Wake up, wake up. There we go.
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Bring it over here and get to your hosting duties. Josh and I just first of all want to welcome you.
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E
Yes.
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Oh, thanks guys to hands down the best podcast covering all things cowboy, period. Absolutely. All things. No, for real. For those of all, for those of you that have been following Nicole, you know just how exceptional she is, you know how authentic she is for those long time followers, the family. Talking Cowboys family. You know how Josh, I Isaiah, you know how we get down. So putting us all together when Isaiah comes out here, you know what it's gonna be?
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B
Hey, it's gonna be a party.
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Absolutely.
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The energy from Nicole Hutchinson is unmatched. We loved her on Girls Talk, boys talk, but now she's on Talking Cowboys. It is a new regime in the Talking Cowboys universe.
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B
Hey, I love it.
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The collection to be here DCU podcast universe. If you know.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
You know what, we're still going to be the number one podcast on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Hello. She said what she said, I said what I said. We're starting it off today though, obviously. We wrapped up day one of practice yesterday. I want to get first day look. What what y' all think? What kind of stood out differently from practice yesterday?
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Well, first of all, shouts out to Frederick Johnson in the live chat. Part of the family. He said, the queen and her court.
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C
Wow.
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I love that.
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I like it.
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I love that. That's going to stick.
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I love him now.
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That's going to stick from now I'll jump right off and say one of the things that stood out for me from practice yesterday is Brian Schottenheimer is not kidding around when he says he wants this to be as physical a training camp as possible. Obviously he has to Balance that with the CBA rules. But as he did note, CBA rules do allow for more physicality and training camp than in OTAs and minicamp. And the Cowboys are going to max that out. Day one, day one. Practice, obviously padded. Practice doesn't begin until Monday. But they were out there, they were running hard. They were, you know, running through plays. They were dripping sweat. We talked to Tyler Kite yesterday after practice, a couple of other guys to Ron Bland, and they said, hey, man, they were expecting it to be as physical as it was.
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E
Yes.
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A
But they forgot how physical training camp practices can be because it's just not always been like that out here.
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E
No, no, not at all. I think what you saw yesterday, at least from the team drills, because there was a lot of special teams going in practice, but then you got to the team drills later on. But you saw a lot of the quick pass game, you know, screens, bubble passes from the offense. And I think in years past under different regimes and not talking about shotties, last year you saw the quick game get clunky at times. It was a lot of rigid attempts at offense that felt obligatory at the line. You felt like the, the offense was saying, now, gentlemen, Aroos, you know what I mean? Like it was very. Just forced when it doesn't feel that way. But it doesn't feel that way now. It feels like an actual offense with good screen passing, with great short game. And as far as the defense goes, I think the defense disguised in multiple packages pre snap, I thought that was really good. The secondary is moving seek and you know, we won it that way.
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B
Yeah, yeah. That's facts. I think for me, it was the defense that stood out. I mean, they've come so far from the off season, right. Putting in that install new coaching staff, new defensive coordinator, new players on that entire roster. I think for me it was. It seemed like they knew what they're trying to do. Right. And so for so long it's been like a gradual process of waiting until maybe after training camp when they finally seem like they're same on the same page. Or hell, even during the season, it's like week three, week four, they've kind of taken so long to get on the same page, but it seems like they know what Christian Parker wants to do. They know what they like, what spots they need to be in, whether it's defensive lineman, linebacker, cornerback. It seems like they're on the same page and I freaking love that.
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A
And to that point, you mentioned Christian Parker. It feels more purposeful.
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Yeah.
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As far as what's happening with the defense since we're keening on the defense for this point. You saw Christian Parker walking the sidelines with the walkie, sending in plays, already giving things are definitive, things are being intentional. And you see, we saw a lot of. We talked about it during inside training camp live yesterday. You, me and Tommy Yarish. We talked about the multiple sets that we were seeing. The. The pre snap movement, but the timing of the pre snap movement, waiting until the last possible second and seeing multiple guys shift to their actual positions to deceive the opposing quarterback. And then you saw guys that you know are going up against the first team like Caleb Downs expected. But we're seeing that. We're seeing P.J. lock. We'll get to him in a moment. Getting first team reps. And we've seen guys like Jayshawn Barham getting first team reps. So it seems like everything to Nicole's point is being done with intentionality. Intentionality. And Christian Parker is not wasting any time. Like, he's not getting out here and saying, okay, let's feel this out for a couple days. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The plan was in place when they got out here. And you can tell it.
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It feels like there is no GU culture behind the defense because it is. Communication is the heaviest emphasis that they have. And Shady was talking about conditioning and how that's going to play, you know, out for them in the long term and how the teams that are the most conditioned are going to fare well, especially late in the season, but at least on the defensive side. And such a drastic difference from what you saw last season at the same exact time is communication.
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Yeah.
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And I'm literally talking about the secondary and how they're talking to each other on the field, but before the snap, being able to diagnose what's going to happen. And then like I was talking about the pre snap movements, disguising their coverages. To me, that is obviously the emphasis from Christian Parker not showing exactly what they're going to do on each play. Make them guess, give them a little confusion. I love it.
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A
Hey.
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B
The word on the street was communication was the theme of training camp. Jerry Jones said that on the podium. So clearly that was emphasized this off season. But y' all know what time it is.
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A
What time is it?
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B
It's time for news and notes.
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A
Yeah, it is.
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B
Yes, sir.
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A
Yeah, it is. All right, so as we get out here to Oxnard, not a lot of, you know, news and notes there because it was in fact a quiet off Season for the Cowboys, headline wise. Right? Listen. They cruised, right?
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Cricket.
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Cricket.
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I was trying. It's not. That's not it.
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You're not. You're not.
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Cricket.
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B
It was worth a shot.
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A
You're not cricketing. That's not. That sounds like a Come on. A singular cell phone.
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E
Come on, man.
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A
Are you like rolling over?
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B
It was after I was born.
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E
I would argue it's a better attempt. Cricket. Come on, man.
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A
Okay. Pigeon. Or actually saying the name of the insect. You're trying to mimic YouTube?
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B
I tried.
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A
News and notes foremost, let's talk about how PJ Lock was unfortunately forced out of practice yesterday. We were told it was due to a knee injury. As the night progressed, they did evaluation on him. The good news is that I'm being told that it is minor. It is not something that they are going to view as severe or they're going to treat as severe. We'll see if PJ practices today or if he'll be held out. There is no practice tomorrow on Friday. So they might give him a couple days of rest before they get him back. Especially with padded practices coming up on Monday, which is key. The other big news is not that it was a transaction. It's that it's a non transaction. No one started the training camp on the PUP or NFI list.
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E
I like those words.
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Wow.
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Daron Bland given a full green light to start training camp. Donovan Ezraku given a full green light to start training camp. We know that Jalen Thompson, the newly signed safety three year deal. He was dealing with a minor injury in minicamp. He was held out of those practices. He's fully. He's a full goal as well. All three of those guys were on the field yesterday. None of those guys report any type of soreness. Also spoke with Savone Revel. Obviously this is going to be a critical year for him. First full healthy off season. Last year as a rookie he was still dealing with the recovery from that devastating ACL injury suffered at ecu. Talk with him yesterday had a scary moment in practice. He banged that surgically repaired knee up against someone else's knee. He did tell me.
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Of course.
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Of course it hurt in the moment. He said in his words a few minutes later. Is right back to normal. Yes, he feels like he's perfectly fine. He's moving well. The braces off. D Mon mode. The Marvin over shown the braces off. Everything looks a go. Everyone is completely healthy. Keep an eye on PJ Lock. But I'm told it's minor.
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E
Knock on all the wood There, though. All right.
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A
All right. We got to be careful now. Y' all can make that sound. Because that cricket stuff, I don't know what y'. All. Man.
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B
What we tried, right?
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A
I've heard better cricket from the sale.
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B
Why didn't you try it?
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A
Who, me? I'm not. I know my limitations.
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B
Oh, my. You know your game.
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I know a man knows his limits.
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C
Yeah.
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You see what I'm saying? A wise man. Beamer, tell him. A wise man knows his limits. Limits. And I know I can't make a cricket time. I'm not. I'm not. Just like someone said, Patrick Nosy should do the. The Joe Milton backflip. I know my limitations.
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B
Let's not do that.
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We're not doing the joke.
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E
Do or do not. There is no try.
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B
Let's talk about the cornerback room because y' all are sick.
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A
Oh, you will learn.
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B
I know. I want to be a part of this. Okay. Great. Duron Bland, we. He's been kind of dealing with that foot injury.
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Yes.
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B
For years, and he's played 19 games out of a possible 34 over his career here.
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Not great, Bob.
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B
Not great at all.
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Not good. Ungood.
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B
Ungood. That's a word. I love that. Let's talk about it because we've been talking about the depth at cornerback for the past couple of years. It's always been injury after injury after injury. Like we said, everybody's healthy going in. But what's at stake for Daron Bland now heading into this training camp?
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E
I think this is Bland getting back to the player that he was, or at least a version of it. Because of the last two years with that foot injury. Because of that last two years with his foot injury. He's only in his fifth year. I mean, let's. He is the veteran in the cornerback room, but again, he's only in his fifth year. We're talking about when he talked to the media yesterday, he was as composed as he always is, but he was very forthcoming about his rehab with the. With the foot and how he feels and basically just saying, like, there is no. Like, there's no kid gloves right now. Like, I'm. I'm here. I'm on it. I'm ready to go. I trust that after a few games this season, kind of getting his feet back under him, I think we'll see a lot. A version of that pick six King, but maybe more mature, if you will, a version that isn't necessarily going to give up big plays, because I don't think anybody would have ever considered Duron Bland being a shutdown corner even at his best. So to me, now it's just creating a dichotomy of both those things being better in coverage while also being knowing where the ball's going to be and being at the right place at the right time, which he consistently is. And I, at least, I think there's going to be a version of Duron Bland. I don't know if it's exactly what we're expecting, but I, I would expect at least that. Just a version of Duron Bland.
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A
I feel like a healthy Duron Bland is required for this cornerback's room to do what Christian Parker needs done. You have questions on Daron Bland's availability? I love yesterday that he said he's quote, unquote, the foot feels stronger than it did last year. He admitted that last year during the rehab process, he had a couple of hiccups. He said there were no hiccups this time around. And I, I hope that remains true going forward because you have questions about his availability. You have questions about the second year of Savone Revel. Can he get back to ECU form that would have potentially made him a first round pick if not for the, the knee injury. You have questions about what's Kobe Durant's fit here? How are they going to use Caleb Downs? We saw Caleb being used in the nickel a little bit yesterday, but he's not the starting nickel back. Or is he? We don't know. So you have all of these questions going forward. Devin Moore, the rookie fourth round pick, how's he going to play into this? So many questions. The room needs a leader, right? And the leader leadership has to come from Daron Bland, both in verbal mentorship, but also in being on the field and showing these young men how to be professionals and how it's done. I think Josh makes a good point. I don't think anyone would have ever labeled Daron Bland a shutdown corner, per se. Daryl Revis, for example. He's an opportunistic.
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E
Yes.
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A
And slightly more physical. I would arguably say much more physical than Trayvon Diggs was, who was also an opportunistic cornerback at his prime, at his peak. But being an opportunistic cornerback means that you have to be able to physically bait the quarterback into throwing your way. And then your reaction time has to be faster than what the quarterback thinks it can be. And that's how you get the interceptions and the pick sixes. His foot being healthy is going to be critical in order for him to get back to being a pick six king to piggyback off of that.
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E
I think early and often offensive coordinators are going to attack Duran Bland because they're going to test that foot. They're going to want to see if. Of course, why wouldn't you. If I, I would, I would do exactly that same thing. But I feel like Christian Parker knows that and because of the like I was talking about the communication between the secondary and how that's looking, I don't think like they're going to be. I don't think the secondary is going to be unearthed by Duron Bland. I think it's going to be a situation where like they're going to have it all covered. I really do.
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B
Well, that's where you, you know that the safety room is going to have to be so crucial because you're dealing with guys on the outside that are coming back from injury. So many of those guys you mentioned Sone, Revel, Duron Bland, of course with the foot injury. And so yeah, that safety room has to be sure. So I'm looking forward to seeing maybe like obviously Caleb Downs what we going to do with them because you can really play him everywhere. You played him down close to the line of scrimmage in the box, nickel safety like you can. He's the true chess piece that this Dallas Cowboys needed and I think that he'll really kind of help out that cornerback room.
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A
Yeah. And I would say, you know, the expectations that are on Caleb Downs are well earned, well deserved from his time at Ohio State. There's a reason the Cowboys traded to to move up to get him and I think we've seen that beginning yesterday with that chess piece, his versatility. We saw him rushing off the line of scrimmage. We saw him at nickel some safety. They're going to move him around. What I would say is don't sleep on what Jalen Thompson can bring to the safety. Hell yeah. Jalen Thompson, his football IQ alone is sky high. He's also reuniting with Ryan Smith, former Cardinals secondary coach. So there's familiarity there and I think Jalen Thompson is the fact that they're talking about testing him as a green dot as a defensive from a defensive back position.
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E
Who called that in the off season? Who mentioned that?
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A
I think it was talking Cowboys.
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E
Oh, maybe, possibly, I don't know.
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A
Oh, the same talking Cowboys that. Oh by the way, Brandon, we've been on Zion Childress's train from day one.
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B
I actually have two. So I since I wasn't a part of talking Cowboys now.
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A
I am, but we're literally like wood. 16 minutes into. 16 minutes into our first training camp episode. Let us. Let us get to Zion. There's levels to this, right? We're not going to say Zion in the same sentence as Caleb Downs and
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E
Jalen Thompson, but Jalen Thompson. Just a really quick. I want to say that I think there are going to be multiple points throughout the season where he's going to be in the right place at the right time. And I don't necessarily think that means turnovers. I mean, eliminating the big play.
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A
Yeah.
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E
I think. And especially like when he was talking yesterday about being a leader in the locker room, it was literally no surprise to him at all. He's on the leadership council. He's like, oh, yeah, I've been doing this since Arizona, like, literally unfazed.
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B
Yeah.
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E
And I love to hear that because the safety room looks entirely different than it has since I got here four years ago.
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B
Yeah.
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E
This is the first time that it is discernibly different in any possible way. And it shows, obviously, Caleb Downs that being a big part of it. And Shoddy was saying there's nothing that we can put on Caleb that he doesn't already expect from himself.
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B
I want to pause right there, take our first break, because next I kind of want to dive into that. Is Downs already the chest piece or is it too much to kind of overload him so early with so many different things? I want to take our first break here on Talking Cowboys. We'll be right back.
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C
Welcome back into Dear doctor The show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of Dr. Pepper. Sheila, let's hear from our next caller. Would you.
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B
Dear Dr. My friend supported me during a tough time, but what's the right gift that says thanks for being a shoulder to cry on?
- [21:10]
C
Okay, this one's easy. I say give her a delicious Dr. Pepper. Nothing says thanks, girl better than a one of a kind soda. Yes, any Dr. Pepper flavor will do. Now, just a reminder that I don't need to be a real doctor to know that Dr. Pepper is the one you deserve.
- [21:25]
D
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- [21:55]
E
Picture yourself making your morning coffee. You know those few minutes while the
- [21:59]
A
water and the beans do their thing instead of scrolling.
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E
What if you video call the friend?
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F
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A
A cup and a call.
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F
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- [22:25]
A
The tailgate started just as a pickup truck and a grill, but now they're huge. I've always tried to make people feel welcome. You don't have to to be a Cowboys fan to make a plate. But it helps.
- [22:37]
F
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- [22:56]
D
Back to Talking Cowboys
- [23:00]
E
get your copy of the official 2026 Dallas Cowboy star Magazine training camp. Inside, you'll find scouting reports for every player on the roster, the current outlook at each position, battles to watch, and more. Plus the pull.
- [23:12]
A
What?
- [23:13]
E
What does it say? Plus the pull out 2026 schedule poster. Visit your local Dallas Cowboys pro shop@dallas.com star that's what it says, Josh.
- [23:22]
A
Don't mess up the pull out.
- [23:23]
E
That's what it says.
- [23:24]
A
Don't mess up.
- [23:24]
B
Read it like that. Every time. That was.
- [23:26]
E
I never ever do.
- [23:26]
A
Don't mess up the pull.
- [23:27]
C
Never ever do.
- [23:28]
B
I love it. Welcome back into Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee, the official coffee other Dallas Cowboys get you some. Hey, they need to have you on an ad or like a commercial for that. That'd be fire.
- [23:43]
E
Is that the very end of the commercial? He's like. He's like the Randy Savage of Black Rifle Coffee.
- [23:47]
A
Yeah. Get you some.
- [23:51]
B
All right, y'.
- [23:52]
F
All.
- [23:53]
B
Welcome back. Caleb Downs. You got a chance to see how the Cowboys possibly want to use him. They're trying out new things. Obviously. That's what Shotty said. There's no true destination of where they'll be placing him. He played in the nickel. He was moved. Upside moved Inside the box moved kind of everywhere. Thoughts on maybe is this too much to kind of overload him too early with all these different roles or. I mean, do y' all agree with what they're trying to do with him?
- [24:22]
E
So what I was alluding to before the break was that Shotty said there's nothing we can put on Caleb that he doesn't already expect from, from himself. He already. But he also emphasized that there are fundamentals that Caleb is learning for the first time. But yesterday he said that right before practice and then in practice, Joe Hoyt pointed this out. In three consecutive plays, Downs was lined up near the edge in the box and deep middle third three plays back to back. So it doesn't seem like they're trying to put any brakes on him at all. They're not trying to put kid gloves on this guy. I, I want to see how it plays out. I really do. But of course you have to expect growing pains along with it when it
- [24:58]
A
comes to Caleb Downs and every, everyone on this team, but specifically Caleb Downs. I want all gas, no breaks. I don't want to hear about load management. Pause. I want to see Caleb Downs in multiple situations, multiple spots. No matter if it's a three man, three down man, front, four down man, front, five down man, front. Show me Caleb Downs in, in different areas because he's shown time and again in his time at Ohio State he can do so. That's why you traded up to get him at the 11th overall pick because you don't view him as strictly a safety. If you viewed him as strictly a safety, he is not here at the 11th overall pick or the 12th or maybe even at some point later in the first. So I'm also of that mindset of at the big age of 21. Are we really talking about overworking a 21 year old?
- [25:48]
B
You right, yeah.
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A
We're not talking about overworking a 21 year old first round pick, top 11 pick. No, no, no, no, no. He was brought, brought to Dallas by Christian Parker Will McClay in the front office to do exactly what we've begun seeing him do yesterday. We're going to see a lot more of that going forward.
- [26:07]
E
But they're saying one thing and we're seeing another, which is okay because I think part of it is tampering expectations.
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B
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I mean, I think this is, I think some people forget Caleb Downs only allowed one touchdown pass through.
- [26:22]
A
Say that again.
- [26:23]
B
College seasons. That's three college seasons. Let me say that one more Time for the people in the, in the back because I don't think they hear me for real.
- [26:29]
A
Okay. Okay.
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B
Caleb Downs.
- [26:31]
D
Yes.
- [26:32]
B
Only allowed one. Numero uno, unobla espanol.
- [26:37]
A
She's showing off now. She's showing off now.
- [26:39]
B
One touchdown pass in three college seasons. I think that's good.
- [26:46]
A
Seems good.
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B
I think that's arguably.
- [26:48]
A
Yes, it seems good.
- [26:50]
B
Yes. But, but I'm interested to see because we saw multiple different looks, right. So to speak. Caleb Downs, maybe a Malik Hooker, you know, playing alongside each other. Caleb Downs, even Jalen Thompson. Which pair do you feel like works the best? I know, I, I gotta ask.
- [27:07]
E
Go ahead. I need your answer so that I can calculate.
- [27:12]
A
Fair enough. Fair enough. I think this is a situation where. And prepare yourself for this, ladies and gentlemen. You're going to see a lot of sets with three safeties on the field. Now, where that third safety lines up, be it box, be it as a nickel, a quasi nickel, whatever the case may be, you're going to see a lot of sets with three safeties. And that being said, you're going to see Malik Hooker on the field at the same time as Caleb Downs and Jalen Thompson. You're going to see two safety sets with Caleb Downs and Jalen Thompson. You're going to see Malik Hooker and Caleb Downs, Malik Hooker and Jaylon Thompson. The thing about Christian Parker, what I'm picking up on is he doesn't want any opposing offense to be able to look at the film on any given week and be able to determine, well, the last three weeks, here's the trend. Malik Hooker and Caleb Downs have been the two safety set for 40 of the time. I don't think you're going to see that with Christian Parker. He's really going to mix and match some things up. And the good thing about it is, and I think this is one of the key reasons in, in retaining Malik Hooker, who by the way, last year he battled injury and he was kind of finding his groove getting back. He's starting to look really good out there. I'm not going to put too much emphasis on it, but I'll say don't be surprised if Malik Hooker does surprise some folks. But yeah, Christian Parker, he's, he's of the mindset that you're not going to be able to, to scheme against trends when it comes to him.
- [28:31]
B
I like it.
- [28:32]
E
Nicole Reader at the question, one more time, my bad.
- [28:36]
B
Which player do you feel like would play best alongside Caleb? Down.
- [28:41]
A
Yes.
- [28:42]
B
I mean, which safety?
- [28:44]
E
I think you're covered. I Mean it. You're pretty covered. But Jalen Thompson, to me, yeah, again, talking about his consistency and even in his play in Arizona, like, I feel like, like that presence is something that Dallas Cowboys have not had in many, many years. Like, I won't even go back to. To the 90s, but like, there are just so many safeties in the Cowboys lineage that you can kind of like see some of those traits because he's a hard hitter as well. And like I said, not necessarily going after the ball, but like just being in the right place at the right time. And if you catch the ball, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that tackle. I mean, to me, Jalen Thompson, it is the one.
- [29:22]
B
What do you feel like has been. Do you feel like k. Caleb Downs chess piece has been the only thing missing from this Dallas defense?
- [29:31]
A
The only thing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Obsession. No, no, no, no, no. Become one of the worst defensive units in the history of the franchise, in the NFL, simply because you're missing one chess piece. You become. Yeah, you become that because little is going correct.
- [30:02]
E
You are fundamentally.
- [30:03]
A
You are fundamentally broken. Your scheme is broken. The communication is breaking down on a play to play basis. You have injuries, you have players that are not playing up to potential, and that could be because they're not buying into said scheme. All those things were going wrong in 2025. So, no, I don't believe that Caleb Downs is the singular piece that's going to get the Cowboys defense where they need to be. But I do believe that in combination with Christian Parker and his staff, which comes a new scheme and a new form of coaching with the added physicality and practices because Schottenheimer wants to build, quote, unquote, build calluses. Yeah, go. And then you look at the additions of Rashawn Gary, who I still believe is going to shock a lot of people. I don't know where all the Rashawn Gary hates coming from, but y' all might want to delete those because that's going to age like milk is my prediction. Quinn and Williams now has a full off season here. Kenny Clark now has a full off season here. Demarvion overshone if he remains healthy. All of these pieces I'm speaking of have to come together. Revel Daron Bland, all of these pieces coming together have to remain healthy, execute well, scheme well, and then Caleb Downs becomes the potential piece that gets you over the top.
- [31:16]
E
I like it.
- [31:17]
B
All right, we're gonna take our. Oh, I'm sorry.
- [31:20]
E
No, I want your thoughts as well.
- [31:21]
A
Come on now. Come on now.
- [31:22]
B
Oh my God.
- [31:23]
A
Yeah, you got, Come on, Come on.
- [31:25]
B
No, I, I, I have to agree with you because you finished 32nd in the NFL.
- [31:30]
A
Yup.
- [31:31]
B
Passing yards allowed, 30th in total defense. That don't mean that's just the secondary. That's linebackers getting drove off the ball and hitting the wrong gaps. That's defensive lineman not getting to the quarterback. And what I loved yesterday was that granny, you saw some nice completions from Dag. You saw some nice, you know, completions from Joe Milton. And I don't want to take that from either of them. But it would have been a Rashawn Gary sack on one of those completions. I forgot who was it. There we go. It would have been a Donovan as a Raku sack as well. So you're seeing the effort there, the way they're able to get off the ball fast. It's, it's a collective effort. So I, I agree with you, Pat.
- [32:11]
A
Yeah, I agree with you Pat and I. That also goes to not only personnel being upgraded over last year, but the coaching. When you talk about someone like Chadero, Uzo Deribe, Go Dogs. Coaching the outside linebacker. I had to say it. I had to say it. But these, these position coaches are getting after it as well. You know, Scott Simons and Ryan Smith and Chidera and, and Derek Ansley and these are guys who, it's a, it's a wonderful mix of both NFL experience and fresh minded guys coming out, coming in from the collegiate ranks who have performed at a high level in the collegiate ranks. Right. And I think all of that is starting to show. We need more time to assess and see it happen. We'll see what happens in these joint press practices as well. You got joint practice against the Rams and the Saints. Let's see how the Cowboys piece things together there. But again, I believe Caleb Downs, you could say the same about Quinn and Williams, but Caleb Downs, as far as the versatile chess piece, he can get you over the top, but everything else has to happen in addition to him being present in order for you to get over the top.
- [33:13]
B
And another thing is Caleb Downs is far beyond his years. We've heard so many things of him. Always asking questions in the film, in the qu, in the meeting room rooms, always watching film, eager to watch film, you know, with Christian Parker and you saw the mic'd up. Go check it out on DallasCowboys.com or Dallas Cowboys Socials you saw Christian Parker the mic'd up showing how to work his hands and things like that. So I. I love it. I love the new additions that the cowboys have added. But I do want to take our second break here on talking cowboys. Up next, I want to get into this defensive line.
- [33:45]
A
Come on.
- [33:45]
B
All right, let's. Let's get into it.
- [33:47]
D
Can we?
- [33:47]
B
Can we?
- [33:48]
A
Shall we?
- [33:49]
B
Of course we can. All right, we're gonna take our second break here on Talking Cowboys. We'll right back, girl.
- [33:55]
A
Yes.
- [33:55]
D
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- [34:25]
C
Welcome back into Dear doctor The show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of Dr. Pepper. Sheila, let's hear from our next caller. Would you.
- [34:32]
B
Dear Dr. My friend supported me during a tough time, but what's the right gift that says thanks for being a shoulder to cry on?
- [34:40]
C
Okay, this one's easy. I say give her a delicious Dr. Pepper. Nothing says thanks girl better than a one of a kind soda. Yes, any Dr. Pepper flavor will do. Now, just a reminder that I don't know need to be a real doctor to know that Dr. Pepper is the one you deserve.
- [34:55]
A
The tailgate started just as a pickup truck and a grill, but now they're huge. I've always tried to make people feel welcome. You don't have to be a Cowboys fan to make a plate, but it helps.
- [35:07]
F
Julio, also known as Mr. Prime, lives up to the name with a tailgate worthy of America's team. That's why bank of America champions the Cowboys, their fans, and everyone who dares to ask, what would you like the power to do? Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2026 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.
- [35:24]
E
Picture yourself making your morning coffee. You know those few minutes while the water and the beans do their thing. Instead of scrolling, what if you video call the friend?
- [35:32]
F
Connect with confidence knowing at&t Internet backup is included at no extra cost guaranteed. So even in a rare fiber outage, your wireless data can keep you connected.
- [35:40]
A
A cup And a call.
- [35:41]
F
That's the new reference. Internet backup requires eligible AT&T wireless service activation and power Source speeds vary. AT&T may slow data speeds if the network is busy. Backup may not be available in all locations. See att.com guaranty for full details.
- [35:56]
D
Talking Cowboys
- [36:00]
A
Rally days. The countdown to game day starts with rally day, presented by seatgeek. The day before. Select home games, get a tour of AT T stadium. Autographs from the Dallas Cowboys, cheerleaders and alumni play games on the field, and more. Get your tickets@att stadium.com rally just like that.
- [36:24]
B
Throw the paper.
- [36:25]
A
Yeah, like I'm playing space. They lucky I just flip it. You know what I'm saying? Like, slap it on the table. You know what I'm saying? Give me my books.
- [36:31]
B
Welcome back to the Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee. The official copy of. Of the Dallas Cowboys. I just felt like I needed to say. I just felt like I needed to say like that, you know, a little to it, you know?
- [36:45]
E
Yeah. So big, like the emphasis.
- [36:48]
B
Thank you.
- [36:48]
A
So bad.
- [36:49]
F
I appreciate it.
- [36:49]
E
I hope you say Dallas Cowboys like that going forward.
- [36:53]
A
Oh, we got to get her on the dot com. We gotta get her on dot com.
- [36:58]
B
Wait, wait. One more time.
- [36:59]
A
Don't worry about it. So whenever we say, like, let's say I have an article on Dallas Cowboys.com.com. oh, see her harmony better than us.
- [37:08]
E
Hell yeah. I mean, your pitch was a little off. You were off.
- [37:12]
A
It would have been good enough for, like, Bone Thugs and homie.
- [37:14]
E
Good enough.
- [37:15]
A
Oh, we're not going good enough. We need excellence.
- [37:18]
B
We need excellence over here on Talking Cowboys.
- [37:20]
A
Air grab. Oh, she ready.
- [37:22]
B
Let's go.
- [37:22]
A
She air grabbed. All right, y'. All.
- [37:24]
C
Based on.
- [37:25]
B
Based on day one alone, that's all we've gotten to see is one day of practice. First day impressions. I want you to fill in the blank here, okay?
- [37:33]
A
Okay.
- [37:33]
B
The Dallas. This defensive line was blank, serviceable. Okay?
- [37:40]
E
I mean, Rashawn Gary had a sack. I. And you had a few other players. I think Sam Williams had one as well. I'm just really looking to see how this rotation looks, especially when we get into, like, red zone drills. Like, that's what I'm really, really, really keyed in on. We haven't seen that yet. Like I said, we only had. Or like you said, we only had one practice, so it's. It's hard to discern exactly what that's going to look like right now. And of course, no pads at all. Once the pads come on, then we can Actually make some. Some critical analysis here.
- [38:07]
B
I like it.
- [38:07]
A
The Dallas Cowboys defensive line was, I'm going to say, on track. Okay. Sample size is far too small for me to say that they're performing well or none.
- [38:19]
D
The.
- [38:19]
A
It's just. They're on track. Dak Prescott and Joe Milton and Sam Howell, they weren't clean the entire time. So if not for the red jersey, there would have been, you know, two, maybe even three sets. You mentioned Rashawn Gary Donovan as Raku. So you love to see them getting into the backfield, you know, quick, get off time. So as it stands and. And with some of the. The assignments that I'm seeing from Christian Parker, where. Who he's playing, placing, where they're on track to go, where they need to go. But that was day one. Today will be day two, and we'll see how it builds from there.
- [38:53]
B
I'm just gonna go basic and say the defensive line was fun.
- [38:57]
C
Okay.
- [38:58]
E
I like fun.
- [38:59]
B
Basic.
- [39:00]
E
I hate fun.
- [39:01]
B
Okay.
- [39:01]
E
No fun here.
- [39:02]
B
Are you sure?
- [39:03]
E
No fun?
- [39:04]
B
I can't tell. You like fun?
- [39:06]
C
Yeah.
- [39:06]
B
You like fun here.
- [39:07]
A
It makes fun. Did you hear the crickets?
- [39:08]
E
We have a good.
- [39:10]
A
Did you hear the cricket attempt?
- [39:14]
E
That was it.
- [39:15]
B
That was not bad.
- [39:16]
E
He tried it. You tried it. I respect him for it. He tried it.
- [39:20]
B
I'm gonna go fun because I do like the rotations and they tried that a little bit last year with. With, you know, under my eber flus. But I like how it's the different looks. I don't want to say, you know, obviously who we're getting, who where, because problem. But. Okay, you're. You're liking. I like to see, you know, Rashan Gary, you know, Donovan as a rock who. Getting some opportunities. You need a big step from Sam Williams, though, like, to make a difference with this defensive line because. Go ahead.
- [39:46]
E
Oh, no, it's. But it is the best case scenario for Sam, is it not?
- [39:50]
B
Yeah.
- [39:50]
A
Do you recall when he tweeted free me under the Michael. Michael Parsons era?
- [39:54]
E
Yeah.
- [39:55]
A
Well, he's free now.
- [39:56]
E
He's free now, now.
- [39:58]
A
And if he doesn't now this. This is something that I probably should have included in news to note in news and Notes, but let's throw it out there. Jerry Jones has made it exceptionally clear he's willing to trade, quote unquote, a top pick for an impact guy that can help the Cowboys as early as week one. He's not sitting around waiting until the trade deadline, November 4th. I believe it is.
- [40:18]
B
Is.
- [40:19]
A
So when you talk about someone like Sam Williams, he's on a one year deal. He needs to have a breakout season and he needs it to begin as early as yesterday because Jerry Jones in the front office, they're. They're watching. And the bat signal has been put up by the Cowboys for the other 31 GMS that, hey, the Cowboys are open for business for maybe another blockbuster trade, possibly likely at defensive end.
- [40:40]
B
Hey, I got a question.
- [40:41]
A
Come on, Fear. Come on, come on.
- [40:44]
E
She's very excited about this.
- [40:45]
A
Come on.
- [40:46]
E
She can't hold it in.
- [40:47]
B
I can't. Can't. If the Cowboys.
- [40:49]
A
Can I do that? I need more rehab.
- [40:51]
B
Please don't try. We don't need that.
- [40:52]
A
Need more rehab. Go.
- [40:54]
E
I'll do one.
- [40:55]
B
Yeah, it's fine.
- [40:57]
E
That's how excited I am.
- [40:58]
B
Okay. If the Cowboys trade for a position, we don't know what, but that's what I'm asking y' all for.
- [41:06]
A
Okay.
- [41:07]
B
What position would you immediately add to linebacker?
- [41:13]
E
I'd sleep more peacefully at night with a veteran presence there, there sharing a room with Patrick.
- [41:18]
A
You sleep pretty peacefully. No, don't hear anything.
- [41:20]
E
But you'd hear me honk shoeing up there, dude. Like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm a big guy, Nicole. This is. This is par for the course. All right. But I would be much better with snores.
- [41:35]
A
Was that. Not every big guy snores.
- [41:38]
E
And you, how many big guys have you been in pro close proximity with?
- [41:43]
A
Well, better set myself. I set myself up for them. I mean, you.
- [41:50]
E
It's just a camp thing, guys. It gets real lonely out here. But anyways, no, I'm not dealing away top capital for a linebacker. Let me just say that if we're talking a game changing edge, I'm all ears. But I don't see that happening before linebacker. But also, free agency still is very much, much a thing. You still have a few pieces out there that I think you could do. But yeah, if I'm trading today for a position to make it better, it's linebacker.
- [42:17]
A
I'll say this. Yes, free agency is a thing, but if Jerry Jones looked at this current free agent market, which we know he did, and still got up on that podium day one press conference and said time and again, I lost count of how many times he made it a point that the Cowboys could possibly make another blockbuster trade, giving up a top pick to do so, that tells me that Jerry Jones isn't entirely interested in free agency. And yes, there are guys out there, for example, Javion Clowney, cowboy, last year led the team in sacks I saw that he reportedly met with the Cleveland Browns, one of his former teams, but he's out there. Jerry Jones is looking right past that and saying, no, we need something bigger. So for me, that bigger would come by way of the edge. It has to be an outside pass rusher. Right. I do have my. My questions about linebacker. I'm on record with plenty of those, but I'm also on record, and Josh can attest to this. Talking Cowboys, you build the defense from back. I mean, from front to back. You have your two interior linemen. You have Quinn and Williams. You have Kenny Clark. You don't know what the step in year two looks like for Donovan Nezraku. The projection is very high. Right? Christian Parker's scheme kind of mirrors what he did at Boston College. As far as Donovan is concerned, he could have a breakout season. But we don't know know, right? We don't know Rashawn Gary. I anticipate him being much better than some fans are giving him credit for. Okay. However, you don't know yet, right? So you need something bombastic at the edges to add with Kenny Clark and Quinn and Williams, which then allows your linebackers to roam a little bit more freely, which then allows your secondary to have, you know, shorter windows to operate in. And as it goes, the quicker you get to the quarterback, the shorter the coverage window. And the shorter the coverage window, the more plays can be made via PBUs and interceptions and potential pick sixes get after the quarterback. You mentioned it earlier, Nicole, what was one of the things the Cowboys were very poor at doing in 2025? Getting to the quarterback. Okay, you got the two interior hogs. You need to make sure. You need to make sure. Make sure. Make sure that you have at least one person off that edge that demands potentially a double team which frees everyone else up to Cook. And if you make that move, and Donovan Nezaraku does have a breakout year, and Sal Williams does have a breakout year, now we're talking positive overkill, and that's something the Cowboys haven't had in a long time.
- [44:32]
E
But let me stop you there, because I know we wanted to talk about Rashan Gary. Did you want to set that up real quick?
- [44:38]
A
Okay.
- [44:38]
B
Well, no, go ahead, Go ahead.
- [44:39]
E
Well, I mean, because Rashan Gary, we traded for him. I think the Dallas Cowboys have a very specific use for him in mind. I think it. The trade wasn't alone, wasn't enough to blow your hair back. I mean, mine included. But. But it is a systematic move that gives a better chance for him to succeed, which I'm a big fan of. He's not a Band Aid free agent, which we had last year, but although we had a good one. But they felt good enough about Rashawn to make the trade. They're asking him to be the best. Rashawn Gary, not necessarily a great value Mike, at all. I'm really excited to see how he's implemented in this defense.
- [45:15]
A
Grid value is not a sponsor. Josh didn't actually say that.
- [45:18]
B
That part. And I think, look, looking back at what, you know, Rashawn Gary actually did with the packers last year, 47 pressures, seven and a half sacks. I mean, better than and misused. And that's better than most of what any edge guy on the Cowboys roster did last year. So you talk about a guy who can get after the quarterback. I agree with you. But I also, on the flip side,
- [45:43]
A
flip it, then hear me out.
- [45:45]
B
And I don't want to get crucified for this because I love me some Tyler Guyton.
- [45:49]
A
Come on.
- [45:49]
B
Love, love, love me some Tyler Guyton. Come on, Nate Thomas, all those guys
- [45:53]
A
in that room say with your chest,
- [45:54]
B
but I think that we need a veteran left tackle. Leave Tyler Smith at left guard, let him keep being a Pro bowl guard, and you find a veteran presence who can protect that blind side of Dak Prescott. Because we've had so many issues, issues of affecting Dak from that side of the line, that interior of the offensive line. Solid. One of the best in the NFL, if you ask me. But I think the tackles, they've got to do something about the tackle. So I'm gonna go Spicy. I hate saying this. I really hate saying stay with your chest, but I gotta say left tackle.
- [46:28]
A
That's. Hey, spicy.
- [46:29]
E
You're being honest, you're being critical.
- [46:31]
A
And as we should be to the Cowboys talking. Cowboys family. Weigh in on that. That's spice.
- [46:36]
B
Spicy.
- [46:37]
A
That's a spicy take. Hop in the chat. Let us know what you think.
- [46:40]
B
That part. Y' all know what time it is though, this time, cuz we got a few minutes to go.
- [46:43]
A
Okay, Come on with it. Come on.
- [46:44]
B
It's a segment I'm bringing from Girls Talk Boy, stop. Just because I feel like.
- [46:47]
E
Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
- [46:49]
B
Bullseye or bus?
- [46:53]
A
Since we're talking like this now, cuz that's what Nicole.
- [46:58]
B
So basically what this is, guys, is I want to see if this is like a realistic expectation. Now I'm basing it just off predictions. Week one threw some out there Is it realistic or is it too bold? All right, here we go.
- [47:13]
A
Clear throat.
- [47:14]
B
Ryan Flournoy will make the biggest play of the week by the end of
- [47:20]
A
week one regular season.
- [47:22]
B
No, this is week one training camp. Solely training camp.
- [47:25]
A
Oh, we. You said Bulls are a bus.
- [47:30]
B
Hell, yeah. You say. You gotta say the Bullseye bus.
- [47:34]
A
Okay, so Bulls are a bust. No, wait, man.
- [47:37]
B
Hell no.
- [47:38]
E
Bullseye or Buzz.
- [47:40]
A
Okay, well, then you leave.
- [47:42]
E
Give me bust. Because George Pickens looks too good out here. Him and CD look amazing. I don't know that. That. I mean, Floyd's great in his own right, but he is number three. Okay, let me just. Let me just leave it there.
- [47:54]
A
It's. It's well known that I'm day one Ryan Floy, HIVE and this is going to hurt my soul.
- [47:59]
E
You gotta say it. Bullseye or blood.
- [48:03]
A
It's a bust. Hell, Nick Eatman just reported this morning that CD Lamb was out here on the jugs machine at 7:30am so while I do believe it's a high likelihood that George Pickens. Go Dogs. Will be the one to make the. The play of the week, this first week out here, training camp, I have to defer to 88. 88 is. Is. 88 is making sure that. That while we all enjoy George Pickens, that we don't forget who's wearing the 88.
- [48:32]
B
I like it. Yeah, I'm gonna go Bullseye, too. I just want to make it a little spicy, the first one.
- [48:36]
E
Are you going bust? You mean.
- [48:37]
B
I mean bust. Excuse me.
- [48:38]
A
You didn't say it, though.
- [48:39]
B
My bad. Well, because I said the intro, but my bad. Bullseye or. Yeah, I'm going bust. I'm sorry, guys, because, yeah, like you said, I did see Nick's tweet. Shout out to Nick out there at 7:45 in the morning.
- [48:52]
A
Because I was not.
- [48:53]
B
Because I was not either. But talking about CD Lamb, I mean, you saw the love that George Pickens got last year. Obviously, CD Was dealing with injury, so he had to step up in a major way. But I think that CD Wants to be still that guy. He is that that guy.
- [49:09]
A
He is that guy. He is the one.
- [49:10]
B
But he wants to make sure that you're that guy. Or those Cowboys wide receiver room alongside his terror twin.
- [49:20]
A
Yep, Terror twins.
- [49:21]
B
That part. Here we go. Y' all ready for the next one?
- [49:23]
A
Trademark. Let's go.
- [49:25]
B
Bullseye or bust. That was not.
- [49:32]
A
Trailed off a little bit, but that was dry.
- [49:34]
B
All right. Tyler Booker will look like the Cowboys best offensive lineman at the end of training camp.
- [49:40]
E
Week one My goodness.
- [49:42]
A
I mean, you got to say. Say it Bullseye or bu.
- [49:49]
E
Because talking about a guy that made the leadership council. I mean, they think very highly of this guy.
- [49:55]
A
He is.
- [49:55]
E
He is of the utmost respect by the coaching staff. And I think there's a good possibility that he takes another step. He played great last year, but I think there's another step for him to take.
- [50:06]
A
Okay. God, you're killing me with this because just yesterday I. I posted my thoughts on Tyler Booker and how seamless the transition has been from Zack Martin, how no one is talking about it, but Bullseye. Bust. I'm going to say bust. I agree with everything that Josh has said about Tyler Booker. Go back and read my. My tweet about Booker. I believe he's phenomenal and his ceiling does not exist. That being said, there's a guy at left guard. Yeah, the other Tyler. Tyler Smith, one of the other Tylers. This is an all pro left guard with hall of fame potential that we see right now three time. So Tyler Smith also, I still believe has another level as long as he remains at left guard. So I'm keep him there. I'm hard pressed.
- [50:59]
E
Hold the line, man.
- [51:00]
A
I'm hard pressed to do two things. I'm hard pressed to. To say Tyler Booker won't have a huge step forward because I believe he will. But on an interior line that's still anchored and. And captained by Tyler Smith. Until further notice, it's Tyler Smith's line.
- [51:16]
B
Dang.
- [51:17]
A
Yeah.
- [51:18]
B
That's facts, my man. Can't even beat that. I'm sorry, we do have to go, so I want to make sure we get it.
- [51:23]
E
Just one more, Nicole, Give us a good one.
- [51:26]
B
I gotta go and I gotta go and I got it going. Bullseye or bust. Okay, I think that was okay.
- [51:32]
A
Yeah, that was better.
- [51:32]
B
I think that was better.
- [51:33]
A
That was better. That was because Shoddy walked by.
- [51:34]
B
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
- [51:36]
A
You found that extra.
- [51:37]
B
I did.
- [51:37]
A
Okay, cool.
- [51:39]
B
Jayshawn Barham will be in the conversation for inside linebacker three.
- [51:47]
A
Bullseye or bust. Bullseye DeSean Barham. First of all, looking at the young man, he is the prototype at inside linebacker. Yes, he will get some. Some reps on the outside, rushing off the edge, but primarily the Cowboys and Scott Simons, they're going to get him. ILB. That's what he's been in OTA's mini camp. That's what he was yesterday. He's. He's flying around. He's physical. He's. He's just built for the job. And then when you look at. I was studying him yesterday when he wasn't doing drills and the way that he was going through mental. Mental reps while watching some of the veterans. J. Sean Barham, I believe is going to be a problem for offenses.
- [52:27]
E
Bullseye or bug? Give me bullseye because. Absolutely. Have you seen this guy? Have you seen what he looks like? He looks angry doing anything. He's eating breakfast. He's mad.
- [52:39]
A
He's.
- [52:39]
E
He's going to the weight room.
- [52:40]
C
He's mad.
- [52:41]
A
Who gets mad over Froot Loops?
- [52:42]
E
He's mad at all times. Absolutely bullseye for every reason. The Patrick just.
- [52:48]
B
Hey, you got a bullseye. You got a bullseye. You got a goddamn bullseye over here, too.
- [52:52]
D
I thought you.
- [52:57]
B
Call from Derek doggy.
- [52:59]
A
I thought she was going to do it.
- [53:01]
B
I'm going bullseye. You talking talk about his size. You look at him like I was going to go there about the fact that he just wants to play football. We've been needing that type of presence at the inside linebacker position. You add that with a demo who's flying all over the football. Football field. You talk about a shamar James a D winners. Can't even forget about him. I mean, that. That inside linebacker core, I think is going to be real nasty. But you know what's going to be nasty?
- [53:25]
A
What's that?
- [53:27]
B
Talking Cowboys for the rest of the season.
- [53:30]
A
It's so fast.
- [53:32]
B
This has been talking Cowboys presented by black. What are we. Are we not doing the thing?
- [53:36]
A
Guys, it's at the very end.
- [53:38]
E
It's at the very end.
- [53:40]
B
Oh, let me try to get.
- [53:41]
E
God dang it.
- [53:42]
B
Talking Cowboys presented by black rifle coffee. Black coffee of the Dallas Cowboys for Joshua Rodriguez, Patrick Noi Walker, Nicole Hutchinson. We'll see y' all next week.
- [53:55]
D
This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys football club.