Talkin’ Cowboys: Red Light on the Green Dot

Summary

Talkin' Cowboys: "Red Light on the Green Dot"

Episode Date: May 5, 2026
Hosts: Kyle Yeomans, Patrik "No C" Walker, Josh Rodriguez, (Isaiah Stanback absent), Chris Beam (producer)
Podcast Theme: Barbershop banter meets film-room analysis: Cowboys roster breakdown, camp stories, rookie intrigue, and plenty of spirited debate.

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Episode Overview

This offseason edition of Talkin’ Cowboys digs deep into rookie minicamp news, jersey number debates—including the heated “Green Dot” (defensive play-caller) conversation—and listener Q&A. The hosts combine sharp analysis and fan banter as they unpack Dallas’s roster construction, rookie impressions, and remaining concerns at linebacker and offensive line. Notable topics include the lack of a clear defensive leader, how undrafted free agents fit, and whether the Cowboys can field a “top 15 defense” in 2026.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Offseason Roster Moves & Rookie Minicamp Impressions

• Rookie Minicamp Wrap-Up: One notable signing from minicamp: OL D.J. Wingfield (Purdue), increasing the Cowboys’ undrafted free agent count to 13 (plus eight draft picks).
  • [04:04] Chris Beam: “Only one signing came out of that group... D.J. Wingfield... after a successful workout.”
• Jersey Number Drama: The panel discusses the temporary/“soft retired” status of iconic Cowboys numbers (2, 8, 12, 22, 74, 82), with heavy debate over whether star rookie Caleb Downs will (or should) get his Ohio State #2, or possibly #11, instead.
  • [06:51] Chris Beam: “I would like to see [Caleb Downs] in 11… It just feels right. One plus one equals two. It would look better too, right?”
  • [09:01] Josh Rodriguez: “For a defensive player, I’d do [number 8]. It’s different.”

Notable Quote

“If you're not going to retire the number, sure, yeah, I would put it on. I would never put it on an offensive — especially a quarterback. God, no.” — Kyle Yeomans [09:40]

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2. Rookies to Watch: Inside Linebacker Spotlight

• Jayshawn Barham Steals the Show: Detailed breakdown of rookie JayShawn Barham’s minicamp performance. Christian Parker (defensive coordinator) gave him significant individual instruction—leading some hosts to peg him as a “potential sleeper” and even a possible starter at middle linebacker (“the Mike”).
  • [13:05] Chris Beam: “Barham, first of all, he’s a freaking unit... As a Mike... Good God.”
• Can Barham Go Sideline to Sideline?: There are questions about his lateral quickness and instincts—a critical factor for playing the modern linebacker position.
  • [14:41] Kyle Yeomans: “His film in 24 was better at Mike than it was at Edge... but technically, there’s a lot he’s going to have to grow on.”
  • [15:45] Chris Beam: “His ability to quickly diagnose is what’s going to determine if he can stick at that Mike position.”

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3. The Elusive "Green Dot": Who’s Calling the Defense?

• No Clear Defensive Leader Yet: The coaching staff has not settled on a green dot (on-field defensive play-caller). Candidates include Barham (if he sticks at Mike), D. Winters, Jalen Thompson—and yes, even rookie safety Caleb Downs is mentioned.
  • [16:22] Chris Beam: “Right now, there are a lot of candidates at the table.”
  • [17:14] Josh Rodriguez: “I don’t think your green dot is necessarily on this team yet.”
• Depth & Trust Issues: The lack of a true, trusted veteran at linebacker is worrying. The group agrees a veteran free agent/trade could still arrive after June 1.

Notable Quote

“The idea of a green dot by committee right now... has me concerned, honestly.” — Josh Rodriguez [16:22]

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4. Ongoing OL Concerns & Swing Tackle Discussion

• Who Backs Up Tyler Guyton?: The swing tackle (backup) role is still unsettled, with rookies Drew Shelton and Nate Thomas discussed as top candidates, but neither inspires a ton of confidence yet. The hosts stress the need for a versatile veteran addition.
  • [31:19] Josh Rodriguez: “The swing tackle... you need a certified swing tackle. I would like more insurance there.”
  • [32:13] Kyle Yeomans: “[Shelton] isn’t the swing tackle now... but the job is wide open.”
• Depth or Desperation?: If multiple OL starters go down, the depth gets exposed fast—moving Tyler Smith outside could be a worst-case scenario.

Notable Moment

The group jokes morbidly about “breaking the glass in case of emergency,” moving Tyler Smith to tackle if disaster strikes. [37:37]

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5. Undrafted Free Agents: Realistic Expectations

• UDFA Facts: The hosts caution fans not to place outsized hopes on undrafted free agents, especially as answers at linebacker or cornerback.
  • [44:07] Josh Rodriguez: “Please don’t count on any of those [UDFAs] contributing at a high level for the Cowboys this season. It’s a lottery ticket.”
  • [46:03] Chris Beam: “You cannot put that expectation on these undrafted guys, especially when at the linebacker position.”

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6. Listener Calls & Fan Pulse

Standout Callers & Topics

Greg in Columbus, OH (Ohio State pride & culture fit for Caleb Downs)

• [24:26] Greg: “He is going to be the face of this defense and... I hope he gets his number two.”

Nebby Nobby in MD (Swing tackle question, congrats to Cooper Beebe on his wedding)

• [29:06] “With a strong training camp, do you think Drew Shelton can be the swing tackle?”

Fred in VA (LB/CB depth and UDFA Patterson’s fit)

• [42:56] “Is [UDFA linebacker] Patterson from Vanderbilt a valid potential player this year?”

Mike in NY (Can the Cowboys be a top-15 defense?)

• [47:59] “Do you think we could be a top 15 defense this year?”

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7. Can They Be a Top 15 Defense in 2026?

• Yeomans is Skeptical: Too many holes, first-year coordinator, not enough proven pass rush, and the “green dot” still unsettled.
  • [48:19] “I just don’t think that’s there yet... I could see them making marginal improvements, but to be a top 15 defense, that’s just unruly expectations.”
• Rodriguez & Walker are More Optimistic: See huge upside in the young core, new scheme, and coaching staff. Top 15 is plausible—especially if a key linebacker is still acquired post-June 1.
  • [51:01] Chris Beam: “I think they fall anywhere between 11 and 14 before the season is over.”

Memorable Back-and-Forth

“If you get that linebacker in the building... then I think we’re talking about a top 20 defense.” — Josh Rodriguez [54:09]
“I think by the end of the first four games... this defense will be between 10 and 15.” — Chris Beam [53:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On retiring numbers: “If you’re not going to retire the number, sure, yeah, I would put it on. I would never put [8] on an offensive — especially a quarterback. God, no.” — Kyle Yeomans [09:40]
• On rookie LB Barham: “He’s a freaking unit... If he can stick at Mic, good lord.” — Chris Beam [13:05]
• On the linebacker/green dot question: “The idea of a green dot by committee right now... has me concerned.” — Josh Rodriguez [16:22]
• On rookie swing tackle: “I don’t think [Shelton] is the swing tackle now... but the job is wide open.” — Kyle Yeomans [33:02]
• On undrafted free agents: “Please don’t count on any of those [UDFAs] contributing at a high level for the Cowboys this season. It’s a lottery ticket.” — Josh Rodriguez [44:07]
• On the defense’s 2026 ceiling: "By the end of the first four games... this defense will be between 10 and 15." — Chris Beam [53:39]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Rookie Minicamp News & Transactions: [04:01] – [07:40]
• Jersey Number & Soft Retirement Debate: [06:51] – [12:29]
• Jayshawn Barham/Inside Linebacker Talk: [13:05] – [15:45]
• “Green Dot”/Defensive Leadership Discussion: [16:11] – [18:53]
• Offensive Line Depth & Swing Tackle Problem: [31:19] – [39:15]
• Undrafted Free Agent Expectations: [44:07] – [47:39]
• Listener Calls (Greg, Nebby, Fred, Mike): [24:04], [28:59], [42:56], [47:59]
• Top 15 Defense Debate: [48:19] – [54:12]

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Tone and Atmosphere

Sassy, knowledgeable, and amiably argumentative—true “barbershop meets film room.” The show balances candid critique (“I’m worried”) with fan optimism (“By the end of the year, they’ll be top 15!”), always quick to poke fun at themselves and each other.

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Final Thoughts

This episode features spirited debate and honest assessment of the Cowboys' roster-building progress, spotlighting the urgent need at linebacker, the hazy “green dot” situation, and the OL’s vulnerability. The hosts blend analytical insight with die-hard fan energy, making the pod both informative and entertaining for casual and hardcore Cowboys followers alike. If you want to stay plugged in to the real discussions happening around Dallas Cowboys football, this is your fix.

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Transcript

[Kyle Yeomans]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco.

[Patrick No See Walker]

CD Lamb.

[Chris Beam]

It's on Jake Ferguson.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Prescott keeps it and he bangs it in for the touchdown. And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. It's an off season edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in everybody. We've got Josh Rodriguez, Patrick no see Walker with Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. Plenty to get to is now rookie minicamp is in the rear view mirror and there are a lot of things that we can take out of the first week with the rookies on the board. No Isaiah, stand back today. Oh, empty chair off to the side. It's unfortunate you guys see him in the stormtrooper outfit yesterday.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We did. Chris was quick to alert us of that for May the fourth.

[Chris Beam]

Be with you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Which one's better, that one or his deep V neck that he's wearing right now on. On Good Morning Football.

[Chris Beam]

That V neck is pretty dope, sir.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's not a V neck. That. That's a. That's a. What's it called?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, it just looks like it.

[Chris Beam]

Because it's all white and it's down to his belly button.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So I don't know.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's not a V neck.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's like a one piece swimsuit for a second.

[Chris Beam]

Let's just call it a bg. Like the bgs. That's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's.

[Chris Beam]

It's the whole vibe.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's actually a regular T shirt that he has ripped. I'm joking. I'm joking. You were completely serious. I would have believed. I would have believed it knowing Isaiah 1000%. Hoping to get Isaiah back. I know he's. He's busy with Good Morning Football. They use him a lot this time of year. So we'll get him back here over the next couple of weeks. Gentlemen, how are you doing?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Excellent, man.

[Chris Beam]

How about yourself?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Henley is what it's called. That's a Henley. A Henley shirt. So it has the four buttons up

[Chris Beam]

here and then it goes down to the belly button.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It. Not necessarily. That goes pretty deep.

[Kyle Yeomans]

To be fair, I may have one or two of those.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Henley. Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

In the, in the closet somewhere.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's a T shirt wife bought me at one point. Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

You probably wore it out of the country. Didn't you go out of the Country.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I did. I went to Mexico.

[Chris Beam]

Did you have a Henley in your bag?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Chris Beam]

Perfect timing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I did have like one of those. Like, she, she went. Bought like a bunch of outfits for both of us and she bought like the, the like boater shirt where there's. It's like a polo. It looks like a polo, but it's a little bit tighter on, like the arms and it's like, it's got like a, like a different colored line here and it's really soft. Is that what it is?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I don't call her, dude. I don't know.

[Chris Beam]

Kyle had the guns out. The guns were out.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What I think Isaiah is missing here with the Henley is that you need to layer it with some. Something under it, like a long sleeve.

[Chris Beam]

He's going to say he's got picks with the Henley.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, he's.

[Chris Beam]

Isaiah, he's trying to show some. He's going to say he's got picks under it, then he's going to do his pick dance.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's trying to drive views up.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If that were myself. I'm wearing as many layers as possible, to be fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Dude. Same kind of thing, though. The, the, the out. One of the outfits my, my wife bought for this trip has like a brown shirt with like the little holes in it so you can kind of see through it a little bit. And I told her, I was like, I'm not ready for this. I can't wear this. I was like, it's just not going to happen. I got sunburned before I even tried to wear it too. So it was like red in certain spots and like blotchy and it just looked like garbage. And I was like, I can't do this.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You looked great. It looked like you had a great.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Nope, I didn't. I never wore it. So, yeah, I put it to the side.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm going to have her.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're not going to try that one.

[Chris Beam]

We did not want you to come back looking like a candy cane.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I got, I got a little son.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, you did get a little son.

[Chris Beam]

I see Isaiah with his super V trying to drive everybody to his only stand.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, let's get into some news and notes. Rookies were in the building.

[Chris Beam]

Rookies were in the building. So we only had one transaction over this over the course of this weekend. So for those that may or may not know Cowboys and, you know, other NFL teams, they routinely invite some players, some rookies, to their rookie mini camp as a tryout. One of the more notable ones here this weekend was grandson of Former Cowboys head coach Barry Switzerland. Zach Switzer was in the building trying out last week. Only one signing came out of that group, though, and that would be offensive lineman D.J. wingfield. So D.J. wingfield out of Purdue, he is heading to the Cowboys and after a successful workout tryout with the Cowboys rookies this past weekend. So add him to the list of undrafted free agents that have been signed to the roster, bringing them to 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 total undrafted free agents to go along with their eight draft picks. So that's the only transaction. But of course, the bigger news and no, it's not Caleb Downs number. That's not huge news. However, we do love to see the fact that Caleb Downs was obviously in the building along with Malachi Lawrence and so many people.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's not the number.

[Chris Beam]

It's not the number.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If people don't understand this by now that that's not the final number until the roster cuts are.

[Chris Beam]

Talk to the people, please.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Please understand they need a number to be out there on the field practicing and the final number can be made up until the beginning of the season.

[Chris Beam]

So please. Dude, I say pre order jersey because in every tweet and in every jersey number article, I say numbers can and likely often do change. Caleb Downs will likely not play in the number 18. Let he and one Kobe Durant continue their negotiations.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, that's the thing though is like if Kobe Durant's not giving up the number, what kind of number is he going to end up getting?

[Chris Beam]

Listen, we're going to say. I'm going to say there's, there's no

[Kyle Yeomans]

open numbers in the single digits.

[Chris Beam]

Great. Ted Dibiase. Everybody has got a prize and I promise you Kobe Durant, okay, as a

[Kyle Yeomans]

prize, let's, let's say Kobe does not. Okay, let's say like, let's just say veteran. He's coming to a new place. He wants to make a statement. He wants to keep number two. He was here first, whatever that may be.

[Chris Beam]

He was here first.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was here for a couple, couple months first. The, the who's the most likely to give up their number outside of Kobe Durant in the, in the single digits.

[Chris Beam]

That's a valid question.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, it's not. So. Okay, so zero is demo.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

1.

[Kyle Yeomans]

PJ Locke, number one, probably that maybe that's a good candidate. Number three is George Pickens. Number four, of course is Dak Prescott. Brian Anger is number five. Donovan as Rock. Who's number six. Sean Gary's number seven. Of course, we all know number eight hasn't been worn in a long time. Once worn by one Troy Aikman, then you've got Cavante Turpin, number nine. That's. That's the list.

[Chris Beam]

I. Can I tell you what I want to see happen? Oh, I understand the affinity for fans wanting to see the number 2 jersey on Caleb Downs. Obviously, it's Ohio State number, but I would like to see him in number 11. And here's why I like it. It has nothing to do with the guy in Green Bay. It really has. So here's the thing. One plus one equals two. Okay. Which overall pick? Which was Caleb Downs?

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was number 11.

[Chris Beam]

Shall I continue? I mean, it just. It feels.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It would look better too, right?

[Chris Beam]

It just feels right. So I am. I am on board with Caleb Downs taking the number 11. I know some people are going to, you know, take it as a shot at that guy in Green Bay. It's not. Not from my perspective.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Can we make it a shot?

[Chris Beam]

You can make it whatever you like.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I mean, Paris Campbell had number 11 after Michael Parsons, so let's not act like that number is sacred at this point. I mean, you.

[Chris Beam]

11th overall pick and one plus one equals two. Give Caleb Downs number 11. In my humble.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Would you let him wear 22?

[Chris Beam]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I will also say Dante founder.

[Chris Beam]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He just signed with the Seahawks this

[Chris Beam]

morning, reuniting with aiden dirty.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Number 13 will be available. I don't know if that's any better than 18.

[Chris Beam]

It doesn't hit.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If it doesn't hit, it doesn't hit. I'm just saying that that number will become available.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Apparently, Sam Howell is wearing 13.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I was having a conversation with Beam earlier, this is yesterday, actually, about the number eight. And of course, you would never give it to another quarterback, much less another offensive human player. Another human. I mean, it's sacrilege to even have the discussion. I'm just curious, would you guys let a defensive player have that number?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Number 22?

[Chris Beam]

No, eight.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, number eight. It's a different. It's a different thing. I mean, when.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Because it's not retired.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, we don't retire.

[Chris Beam]

That's the crux of my argument. I want the conversation to retire numbers. They don't, but I would like for them to retire.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, they.

[Chris Beam]

12.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They've got three numbers that they have.

[Josh Rodriguez]

12.

[Chris Beam]

Soft retired. Yeah, they're soft retired.

[Josh Rodriguez]

12 is off.

[Chris Beam]

12, 8 and 22 are all soft retired. But I would like to see official retirement so that we don't even have to have these cars.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I know, exactly.

[Chris Beam]

So, yeah, I would do it for defense.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

For defensive.

[Kyle Yeomans]

For a defensive player, I'd do it. It's different.

[Chris Beam]

This is international cow. He spots.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm just saying, like, I. And trust me, I like. It's nothing against Troy. It's nothing against, like the history and everything that it's there. I'm just saying for a defensive player to wear a number that an offensive player made famous, to a certain extent, it's a little different. So if you haven't retired the number, if you want to retire the number, go ahead and do it. Just make it like, like you're saying, just make it official. Let's do it. That's 12. And if that's the case. Yeah, start with 12, work your way down, and then we don't have to ever have this conversation. But if you're not going to retire the number, sure, yeah, I would put it on. I would never put it on an offensive.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Especially a quarterback would.

[Josh Rodriguez]

God, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Never, ever, ever, ever.

[Chris Beam]

However, not ever.

[Kyle Yeomans]

For a safety, sure. Yeah. I'd take that one right off his

[Josh Rodriguez]

jersey and be able to feel differently.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I would say 74 is also soft retire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is 74. No, good point.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What about 22?

[Chris Beam]

No, that's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, no, 22 for. It's same. Same thing. I'm not going to change it up. I'd say same thing. If it's a defensive player. I think 82 is probably soft retired as well. You think from this point forward, 82 would be.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, they'd get a phone call upstairs from that, from, from that coach in Oklahoma.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think it's worth the number. Know with so many soft retired numbers, I mean, you know, just, just do it.

[Chris Beam]

Just.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Then you're going to turn into the Yankees.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I'm also not against 18. I'm really not against it because, you know, why not? Why not make your own legacy with your own number?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like, I think 18 look that bad.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Not a big numbers guy.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. And I am a big numbers guy, but I'm not, you know, I'm not a fanatic about the numbers. Like, I would like. I like them to look a certain way. Like, I wouldn't, for example, going to the extreme, I wouldn't want to see a cornerback in 99. You know what I mean? So there, there are boundaries, but for

[Josh Rodriguez]

the most part, I gave up on numbers. Once I saw Jalen Smith in the number 9 jersey after Tony Romo, I was like, I was like, come on, man.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, what are we doing?

[Josh Rodriguez]

And then I just, I let it

[Chris Beam]

go, you know, at least Kevonte started to make it look good.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

So there's that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, but when you look at safeties, the numbers are all over the place for safeties. I mean, Kyle Hamilton wears 8 or 14.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No one likes 40.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Antoine Winfield Jr. Wears 31. I mean, you talk some of the best safeties in history were 20. I mean, double digit numbers for a good safety is not out of the question.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Of course not.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's just the fact that everybody looked at the Ohio State film and said, wow, this guy looks really good wearing number two. It's, it kind of fits the mold and it's a historic number with Ohio State and it carries a lot of weight there. Why not just continue that? Especially for an organization that hasn't had a number two that has stood out as of late.

[Chris Beam]

I'm saying all of this and Kobe Durant, everybody has a price sitting there,

[Kyle Yeomans]

just waiting for the number, for the number to get.

[Chris Beam]

That's all. That's all. Yeah. So outside of that, which has been a nice, fun banter for Cowboys fans coming out of this rookie mini camp, there are actual football things that are happening. You know, Cowboys saw Christian Parker, Caleb Downs, Malachi Lawrence, Jason Barham and these other rookies finally get on the field for the first time with Christian Parker and Scott Simons and Chedera Uzo De and these defensive coaches. And that was exciting to see, especially when you see, you know, guys like Barham getting so much attention early on from Christian Parker specifically. There is more than one occasion where obviously he was giving his attention to Caleb Downs as well some of the other guys. But I know specifically on, I believe was Saturday, I sat there and watched for about 20 minutes of practice and it was first one on one Barham with Christian Parker. He was helping him with footwork and hand placement and things like that. And then he escorted him over to the inside linebackers group, let Scott Simons take over, and then Christian Parker stood back with his arms folded, nodding in approval that, that the rookie was taking some of the things that he was giving him and integrating them already. So we talked about, you know, potential sleepers last week in this draft, as far as who might be our favorites. I mean, based on what I saw in rookie minicamp and the level of attention already being given to Barham and Devin Moore as well, I'm going to switch my answer from Devin Moore to Barham. I think Barham, first of all, he's A freaking unit.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's huge.

[Chris Beam]

Good God.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That is a big dude.

[Chris Beam]

As a mic.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Stands out on film, too.

[Chris Beam]

As a mic.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Emphasis on the hand.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. If he can. If he can stick at Mike. Good Lord, dude, he's film.

[Kyle Yeomans]

His film in 24 was better at Mike than it was in 25 at Edge. But it's so I, I wouldn't be shocked if he is a starter by the end. And I liked Mike. Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

I wouldn't be 55 on him, by the way.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Do you trust his, his ability to get sideline to sideline, taking on blockers and.

[Chris Beam]

No, there, There's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There's elements of his game that that's, that's. That's part of.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's the part that's concerning me, of course, but it's like, if he gets washed out by, like, one of the bigger tight ends, that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's where I don't think he'll be washed out. It's. It's more of can he get there first? That's. That's where. When he gets to the point of attack, I think he's fine. He's got good hand placement. He's got good dude. Big dude. Yeah. All of that plays a factor. It's the, the sideline, the sideline lateral ability that I'm a little bit skeptical on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And maybe, maybe I just haven't seen it, or maybe he's. He's grown in that area. But I don't think if he was just an incredible linebacker, which his tape was better as a linebacker. If he was an incredible linebacker, they would have never moved him to edge rusher, and they did because of necessity and what Michigan had on the roster and things like that. I know all that plays a factor, but if he was as good as advertised as a middle linebacker. Right. Then he would have stayed a middle linebacker in Ann Arbor. Now, when you get to the next level, he probably fits better just from a schematic standpoint, from an athleticism standpoint, as a Mike. But I think technically there's a lot of things that he's going to have to grow on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Is it more so footwork or is it actual, like, speed that, that he's suffering from in that good question aspect? And is he able to diagnose play?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like, I wouldn't even say he's suffering. I'm just saying it's. It's something that I'm watching for because remember, he hasn't played the position, of course.

[Chris Beam]

Years.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So a lot of it. I'm not going to say he's so. And yeah, in rookie minicamp, it's just something that I want to see more of when we get to training camp. That's going to be one of my number one things to watch is how is he moving sideline to sideline, how is he reading? How is he reacting?

[Chris Beam]

I was just about to say all

[Kyle Yeomans]

of that is more instinctual than it is even technically.

[Chris Beam]

His ability to quickly diagnose is what's going to truly determine if he can stick at that mic position or not. I think that as he gets integrated into the NFL level with conditioning and you know, just the training staff and everything, I think those traits, he's already an athlete and he's already a freaking unit. But I think like the speed, the quickness, that'll level up for me it's more. So how quickly can he get the playbook down? Particularly being like it's a new playbook but it was going to be a new playbook to him anyway.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Regardless of what happened. So how quickly can he get this playbook down and how quickly can he read, react or diagnose? Read, react in real time. And also that goes to his pre snap awareness as well. And as far as like helping to. Because now the question becomes if he sticks at the mic and we're saying that, okay, if he sticks at the mic then that means likely. It's likely that he is diagnosing. Well, he's reading. Well, does that automatically make him the de facto green dot in.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. No.

[Chris Beam]

Because that's a conversation as well. Shoddy talked about it this, this weekend. Christian Parker was asked about it this weekend and right now they're saying there are a lot of candidates at the, at the table for it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And that has me concerned, honestly. Like I, at least from a outside perspective, the idea of a green dot by committee right now.

[Chris Beam]

No, I don't think it's by committee, not by committee.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I mean like it's, it's an open competition.

[Chris Beam]

The ballot is long.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, the list is long.

[Chris Beam]

Ballot is long.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And you know, Shoddy said in the pre draft presser that you know, no, a linebacker is going to be the green dot. And then he's since sort of changed his tune, especially in Saturday's press conference where he's talking about like the ability of a Jalen Thompson or possibly Caleb Downs being trained to take over green dot positions like during game scenarios. I'm concerned because there is no definitive answer yet.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There's no answer.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And Shotty was like, well, I have a favorite but I'M not gonna, you know, share that with anybody. And he was, of course, joking around, but to me, to not have that answer right now is concerning. But obviously they're not trying to show all their cards right now.

[Chris Beam]

Question.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think it's a. I think it's a matter of, you know, and this is something we're gonna be talking about in the third segment. I don't think your green dot is necessarily on this team yet.

[Chris Beam]

Oh, that. Ooh, good segue. Here's the question. If the Cowboys made no additional moves between now and training camp, who is Kyle Yeoman's green dot? Who is Josh Rodriguez's green dot? If no other moves were made in. Before training camp? No trade.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, this is why I don't think they have an answer. Oh, I've got a favorite. They haven't. They haven't decided.

[Chris Beam]

Doesn't sound like you even have a favorite.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't. I would say D. Winters, probably. At least he's been there, done that. He's started 17 games. Do I love that option?

[Chris Beam]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But is that kind of what you got right now? Yeah, that's kind of what you got. I. I wouldn't be shocked if it's a guy that maybe plays in the secondary. They. They could maybe make Caleb Downs the green dot at certain times, but even then, like, I would rather it be your mic if it has to be, maybe a will. But give me. Give me Dee Winters as the early favorite.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They also brought up overshone in terms of, like, the green dot conversation, and I don't think that's a great idea just based on.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That would be like the break glass of. Of emergency. Put it as your weak side guy.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Make your will. Your. Your green dot.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And in terms of, like, his availability so far in his career here with the Cowboys, that concerns me because, you know, you're going to have to have other people trained at green dot and knowing the place. To me right now, my. My pick would be Jalen Thompson. Just because of the.

[Chris Beam]

Oh, that is. That's my.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's a good one.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, that's. That's my pick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know, if it's. If it's not going to be Caleb Downs in year one, which I don't love that idea either, then it would be. It would probably be Jalen, too.

[Chris Beam]

That's my vote. My vote is Jalen Thompson.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Shout out to Ultra Cowboy. On the YouTube chat, he said Barham can. Or Barham ran a forced 6 to 40. He can get sideline to sideline. He had the fourth best 10 yard split for defensive ends. That's. That's good. All of those numbers are fine. But remember, he's playing middle linebacker in this scenario. Remember, that's what we're talking about. 4, 6, 4. 40 out of the list of 43 linebackers that I have, it ranks number 25. So 25 out of 43 that I've gotten. I didn't have everybody, but there's that. That's still bottom half of the list in terms of linebackers in the 40s. And then in terms of 10 yard split. Let me see the same. Let me do the same math. If I can organize this column real quick, that split would be. Yeah, like 20, 22. So it's still middle of the pack in terms of your rookie linebackers going sideline to sideline. Not saying he can't do it. I'm just saying I want to see it a little bit more. And we haven't even seen practice. I was in Mexico, dog. Like, see practice yet. I'm just saying this solely based off of the. The college tape.

[Chris Beam]

I mean, practice wasn't as much practice as it was individual drills and the rookies getting to know install installs and things like that. It was not actual practice. The Cowboys and the NFL teams are not allowed to actually pract right now. So just keep that in mind. But also shouts out to Ultra Cowboy because he said Barham wants to run an Oklahoma drill with talking cowboys. Listen, I'm not ready. Holler at these.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You see what he tried to do?

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah. Barham is ready for all the smoke, for all comers.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Anybody was ready for the smoke.

[Chris Beam]

Anybody who I'm sure, yeah, step up.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And Joe, he's a man of his word. He'll do it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's a man of his word. He would do it. But I don't think he was ready for that response.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I'm sure that shocked him a little bit.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You want to go?

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's had a tough offseason.

[Chris Beam]

A couple times in the interview, like when there was a different topic, he brought it back full circle, bar him. And then he was like, no, seriously, we can do it. I was like, all right. This guy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I mean, I remember he had the questions. He's a good guy, by the way. Shouts to him. But I remember he had the question whenever President Clinton walked in the press conference. It was literally on him. And he's just like, like,

[Chris Beam]

what am I doing? Joe Hoyt, we love you and you're having a very interesting, great off season. Great, great, great.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right. Let's take our first break. When we come back, for the first time since the Cowboys selected Caleb Downs, we're going to hear from the fans. 888-855-2297. What are your remaining questions this offseason now that Dallas has put a couple different guys into the fold? We'll talk to Cowboys Nation when we come back with more Talking Cowboys right after this.

[Chris Beam]

Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools, expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you

[Kyle Yeomans]

get the job done right.

[Chris Beam]

We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you. We're united.

[Kyle Yeomans]

If you're looking for fresh American roasted coffee that gives back, you need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle Coffee. That's right, America's coffee is now available in the coffee aisle of a grocery store near you. Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran founded with a mission to give back to those brave men and women who have served our nation. Every bag, box or can you purchase helps support that mission. Head to your local grocery store and roast yourself some Black Rifle Coffee.

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Chris Beam]

Learn [e-mail] LOCALBUSINESS bank of America Official bank of FIFA Club World Cup 2025 Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation or

[Kyle Yeomans]

getting AT&T's best deal on a Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra made me realize I do deserve the best. Like this bubble bath with fancy soap and even this face mask.

[Chris Beam]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Chris Beam]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Chris Beam]

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[Patrick No See Walker]

Foreign.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Cowboys. Welcome back into talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign, the official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Back with Josh Rodriguez, Patrick no See Walker, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. Time now to talk to Cowboys Nation.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Our first caller is Greg in Columbus, Ohio. Greg, I have a feeling where this conversation could be headed. We'll see if it's a correct feeling or not, but you're in Columbus, Ohio, and the Cowboys just drafted a guy that played his college football there.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Oh,

[Chris Beam]

what's going on, Greg? And there it is.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So you know this. It was really nice to see the behind the scenes of the draft and, you know, everything that went with this. But, you know, the last couple years, Ohio State has had these incredible young men at their school. A lot of them with the faith background, especially Caleb Downs. They had Henderson, Jack Sawyer, Will Howard, Sonny Stiles, all these guys. There's videos of them having, like, revivals with a student body at Ohio State. And, you know, Ohio State's getting a great, great ball player, but an even better person. And, and I'm excited and I hope he gets his number two because that's what he deserves and he is going to be the face of this defense and also for Patrick. You know, I don't know if you saw it, but Jake Cargill's husband, Brandon Phillips, got into the Cincinnati Reds hall of Fame.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Last weekend.

[Chris Beam]

Absolutely.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's about all I got. So thank you, guys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Jake, appreciate it, man.

[Chris Beam]

Put the belt back on her. Love you live, but put the belt back on Jade.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He brings up a good point. I mean, there's a lot of Ohio State. I mean, you think about some of the guys that have recently just come into the league and immediately had an impact. Like last year, Mecca egg Buka, the 19th overall selection last year, wide receiver, Ohio State. He was like the third receiver off the board last year. I think Tet was first.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's going to have an even better year this year.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's second. Probably is.

[Chris Beam]

He's going to be really good. And that's scary.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, they had four first round picks last year. Ohio State did. They had four picks in the first 11 this year.

[Chris Beam]

Crazy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They had Marvin Harrison Jr. In 2024, C.J. stroud in 23, Jackson Smith and Jigba in 23, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, both in 2022, Justin Fields in 2021. We've seen how that kind of turned out. And then they had three guys go in the first round of 2020, and they've won that national championship, remember, since then. So kind of, yeah, it's. It's a pipeline of guys. And this year's group was a big reason why? They won last year's national championship and they were in the contingent to win this year's national championship until they came up against a really talented Miami team in the Cotton bowl at. AT&T Stadium.

[Chris Beam]

It might have won when C.J. c.J. Straw was a quarterback. Yeah. You know, they kind of ran into an issue.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Which one was that?

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, we can't say.

[Chris Beam]

Who was the issue? Go, doll. No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

How dare you. Boom.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Rules, buddy.

[Chris Beam]

But to be fair, all jokes aside, C.J. stroud in that semi final, he absolutely made my life flash before my eyes several times. Shouts out.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was one of the best games.

[Chris Beam]

Shouts out to the kicker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Before we move on to the next caller, he did bring up something that was really interesting. The path to the draft and behind the scenes coverage that ESPN and the NFL Network put together. They had NFL Network cameras all weekend long in the. The draft meetings in the war room. And there's a lot of behind the scenes footage from different trades that Dallas tried to make. They had the trade from. They were trying to go from 12 to nine whenever Cleveland flipped with Kansas City. And were they trying to go up. It was probably Caleb Downs. I haven't watched the. The documentary yet, but just the clips that have arose on there.

[Chris Beam]

Not for Jordan. It was for Caleb Downs and not for Jordan. Well, there were rumors. Yeah, there was rumors they were going for post draft that they were going for. No, they weren't.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, they like Jordan Tyson. No, I think if he was there, they were wiped out on defense. He would have been.

[Chris Beam]

They did like him. That was true. But the, the speculation and the rumors post draft, that'll come out saying the Cowboys were trying to move up for Jordan. No, that's. That's actually wildly inaccurate. It was Caleb that they were trying to go up for, and it just so happens that he was still there at 11 and they were like, we're not going to keep playing this game. Yeah. Two, five. Do it now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And then it's even got the behind the scenes call of Philadelphia trading up and then Makai Lemon being on the phone with Pittsburgh and then why is Philly calling me? Well, that's why.

[Chris Beam]

Draft action, baby.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Crazy. I love the NFL draft.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's a crazy night.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, next caller. It's one of our faves. It is Nebby Nobby in Silver Springs, Maryland. What's up, Nebby?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Listen, before I get to my question, I just want to congratulate. My favorite player, Cooper Beebe, on getting married. Over the weekend. And my question is, With a. With a strong training camp, do you think Drew. Do you think Drew Shelton can be. Can be, can be, can be, can be, can be, can be, can be, can be. The swing. A tackle I. I take care of. Thanks for being patient with me. Have a great week. I love you guys. Bye.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Love you too, Nabby.

[Chris Beam]

That was a great question.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, and that's how we know Nabi knows ball is. We're in the mid. We're in the middle of May. It's Cinco de Mayo, and he's asking about the swing tackle.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I love that he knows ball so much that. That is literally a topic that I wrote down for this show.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, nice.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Because that is in Kyle's third segment about the most glaring need. The second most glaring need. I'm like that exactly.

[Chris Beam]

Well, Nebby wants you to pull that forward to segment two. So here we are.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, here we are.

[Chris Beam]

All right, you lead with it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The second most glaring need. Thank you, Kyle, for the. The question that we'll get to eventually. But just to bring it up now, I mean, the. The swing tackle. I mean, you need a certified swing tackle. I don't know that Drew Shelton is. I mean, he was there. They obviously like him. But I. I'm curious if they think that that is their solution going forward for swing tackle, because at least at this point, I would like more insurance there. I would like a vet, a really good vet, someone with a lot of pedigree that gives you an opportunity to have more experience there. If and when there is a. An injury there, a tackle on either side. I think there might be some options out there, especially for a vet that's looking for the best situation to be in, that wants to chase, I don't know, some playoff success. We'll see. But I hoping. I'm hoping that Drew Shelton proves me wrong there, but it wouldn't hurt to have another dependable guy that's a little longer in the tooth, in my opinion.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I mean, Nate Thomas is still on the roster. Johnny Cornelius is still on the roster. I don't think either one of those guys have.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah, you're not like. You're not like. This is.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You don't have a guy there. Yeah. Drew Shelton, I think. And I said this. Maybe it was on the draft show specifically. It may have been on this show last week, too. But I don't think that's a 20, 26 pick. I think that's a 20, 27, 28 pick because he needs to build functional strength. He's strong when he's got his hands at the point of attack. But his finishing strength isn't the same. His lateral movement is phenomenal. It's fantastic. And the way that they're going to pull tackles and pull guards and do different things with their offensive line, I think he'll be just fine. But is he your go to swing tackle when one of your top guys goes down? I don't know if he's there for

[Josh Rodriguez]

that, but you can't count on it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But the question that Nebby did put out there was with a strong training camp. So maybe he does come out and he is impressive and he does set the tone in training camp. Could he become the swing tackle? I think my answer is yes. Do I think he's the swing tackle now? No. No. He can get there and I think the job is wide open.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It is.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's really the point.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It'll be a fun competition to see. But again, I think it would be best served with a veteran in there

[Kyle Yeomans]

to I don't disagree.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You need the Rob Jones at tackle of this season. And granted Rob Jones got injured last

[Kyle Yeomans]

preseason, he would have been great on the team this year.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He was arguably starting for he was pushing to be a starter last at training camp because he was playing so well and he was a guy that was working with the rookies until he got he injured his neck in last preseason. Now he's with with the 49ers of course. But you need a guy like that in my opinion that can be here at tackle.

[Chris Beam]

I think it's. Well, first of all, Kyle said and I agree the competition at left tackle is indeed wide open.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Swing tackle.

[Chris Beam]

Swing tackle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I was about to say left tackle. I mean do you want to expand?

[Josh Rodriguez]

You could argue depending on if you

[Kyle Yeomans]

swing tackles wide open. I'm not saying the starting job is open, that's fair.

[Chris Beam]

But I would argue that because of Tyler Guyton's issues with availability, yes, the left tackle position right now is just wildly out of sorts as a whole. And I don't like those words because it's also, by the way, Dak Prescott's blind side. Right. So the Cowboys have to figure this out and I'm not of the ilk where I want to see Tyler Smith popped outside. I don't want that. I want Tyler Smith to remain at left guard. What I want you to do is solve the issue at left tackle so you can keep your all pro left guard at left guard. Now to answer to address Neb's question, as far as Drew Shelton, I Think that's too much right now to put on a day three pick. When going in, especially going in, you have two things that are true. The strength needs to improve. He does have the strength. I love his anchor. I love his hand placement. But he's got to get stronger at this level. I think you're going to have to give him the entirety of a season to develop that. I don't think he's going to just magically come out of Oxnard in late August and all of a sudden Tyler Smith strength like. No, that's not going to happen.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Chris Beam]

I think he's viable option for swing in the event Nate Thomas has another availability issue or Nate Thomas doesn't develop. Continue to develop as he was before he had the injury issue late last season. But I'm looking at Tyler Guyton as well in this whole equation, asking myself, am I 100% certain? And I'm. I. I've stood here and I've said it. Well, I'm sitting now because. But I believe Tyler Guy has the potential. He just has to stay on the field. But if you're asking me, well, no, see, do you believe he will stay on the field the entirety of this season? Based on the science. The science says I can't lean on that. The science says he's probably going to miss some games. I hope I'm wrong, but we. All we have is two years of evidence where he's missed games and he's missed some training camps. Significant for various reasons. So Tyler Guyton has to remain available. I am very, very, very concerned about left tackle. Not because of the ability of Tyler Guyton. I believe that he has that, and I believe that it's being stunted by the injuries. Yeah. Has to stay healthy. And then behind him, Nate Thomas, Cornelia Cornelius. But Nate beat out a Johnny, right?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Now here comes Drew. He's a rookie, needs to get his strength up. Everything else looks really, really good. Anchor, hand placement, everything. Just got a lot of questions. And you better damn well come out of Oxnard in the preseason with a definitive answer at both. LT1, which will likely be Tyler Guyton as long as he's healthy. And you better have an answer at swing tackle in the event. The likely event, unfortunately, something that Tyler got, it misses some games.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think, if anything, it's Nate Thomas's job to lose at this point. I think you would be the most comfortable. I'm not saying you would be entirely comfortable with him at swing tackle, but I think in terms of, like, the starts that he had last year what he was able to bring, and if he improves on that, I think it's his job to lose. However, I don't think that's necessarily solid ground.

[Chris Beam]

And to answer the questions in the chat really quickly, Terrence still is not going anywhere, and the Cowboys proved that by restructuring his deal this season. So I know there are questions. They were saying, well, how do we feel about not this year. Right. Not this year. How do we feel about Tyler Guy and popping out the right tackle in 2026? It's not going to happen in 2026. So at the earliest, maybe 2027. But for this season, it doesn't bear, you know, mentioning or having the conversation because they. You don't restructure a guy like Terence Steele's contract and then just to. Yeah, no, he's. He's your starting right tackle in 26.

[Kyle Yeomans]

To that point, though, your swing tackle may be Tyler Smith. Currently, I don't like. I'm just saying that's. I don't like Smith.

[Chris Beam]

Doesn't like Tyler Smith.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But that's. If you've got TJ Bass, so you can throw in there a guard that's five, then you're throwing up Tyler Smith at left tackle and you're, you're.

[Chris Beam]

You do have tj.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They don't like it. I know Tyler doesn't like it, but in the break glass of a case of emergency, I've used that a couple times today. It. You have to put your best guys out there and he would be one of the best.

[Chris Beam]

See, doesn't that bring us to another question as far as ol depth? Because you do have TJ Bass back in the building. You don't have Brock Hoffman back in the building.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No.

[Chris Beam]

So if in the event they have

[Kyle Yeomans]

Hennessy, who I like Matt Hennessy, who the sign. Yeah, I like him.

[Chris Beam]

That's good. Solid presence. Yeah. Do you believe that in Trevor Keegan in the scenario Keegan was here last season. Correct. And couldn't crack into even when they had issues.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Depth, though. We're not talking about starting right now.

[Chris Beam]

Depth.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Depth,

[Chris Beam]

like not the triple H. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Like Hunter Hearst, Helmsley.

[Chris Beam]

Right. The game. But no, seriously, I mean, in the situation. Let's just talk football. And we don't want to put any bad mojo out there, but if you're looking at a situation where you now have to pop Tyler Smith out to be your swing tackle, that means you're in dire straits there. But it also puts you in a bad position in the. On the interior because, yes, you have TJ Bass, but you don't have Brock Hoffman. And yes, Matt Hennessy brings experience. I'm just going to stop there because Trevor Keegan, I need to see more before I say he's in my equipment. Listen, all I can say I love him.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I love what you're saying. I love every. And I agree with everything.

[Chris Beam]

I'm worried. I'm worried.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I love what you're saying.

[Chris Beam]

I'm worried.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But if you're telling me that there are multiple starters missing on the offensive line, you're kind of in a bad spot regardless.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, of course.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't care who's hurt up front if you're missing two or three starters on your offensive line. Regardless. Regardless. There's not a ton of teams in the NFL that are built to withstand two or three starters down. So the depth, the depth there is all. That's all. Safety net.

[Chris Beam]

That's fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's so you can feel the team.

[Chris Beam]

Let's spin. Let's put a positive spin on it though, and then we can.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We got to go to break. That's what we need to do.

[Chris Beam]

The positive spin is Tyler Booker. Year two. Can't wait. Can't.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, when we come back here on Talking Cowboys, we're going to take two more calls because they've been waiting very patiently. More talking to Cowboys Nation right after this. Getting AT&T's best deal on a Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra made me realize I do deserve the best. Like this bubble bath with fancy soap and even this face mask.

[Chris Beam]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Chris Beam]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Chris Beam]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

Visit att.com Samsung Details if you shout

[Josh Rodriguez]

how about them Cowboys? You have that undeniable passion that's the heart of Cowboys Nation. And if you like to drink Dr. Pepper, you love the unique blend of its 23 flavors together. Your one of a kind fandom paired with the one of a kind taste of a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper is the game day lineup that can't be beat. Better yet, gather Your Cowboys and Dr. Pepper fan friends to watch the next game and crack open a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper for everyone. The wins will be even tastier. It's a Pepper thing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Cowboys fans, we've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is now available at Texas Seven Eleven stores and for a limited time you can score two cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch. 200 milligrams of caffeine, veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood, 711 here in Texas, grab that two for six dollar black rifle energy deal and fuel up the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's coffee.

[Chris Beam]

How's it going? You see Cowboys game? Oh, I watched.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Been seeing some good things.

[Chris Beam]

Totally. They have some talent.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yup.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Some great talent.

[Chris Beam]

And they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody by the way.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm Travis.

[Chris Beam]

Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys. Go Cowboys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice. What would you like the power to do?

[Chris Beam]

Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Back to talking cowboys. Excuse me.

[Chris Beam]

Welcome back to Talking Cowboys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Back here on Talking Cowboys. Get a behind the scenes look at the home of the Dallas Cowboys with Tony tours of AT&T Stadium presented by SeatGeek. Check out the locker rooms, playing fields, contemporary art collection and a whole lot more. Get your tickets today at att stadium.com/tours had zero lead in. I was, I was not ready for that.

[Chris Beam]

Go cow.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Here we are back here on talking. All right, we've got two more calls that we want to get to before we say goodbye. Fred in Virginia is our next caller. What up, Fred?

[Patrick No See Walker]

What's up fellas? How you guys doing? Isaiah and Abia. So I have no problems with what has happened over this offseason. Honestly, I think Jerry's done a good job, but I do think the cornerback room and the linebacker room, I thought there would be maybe more done to those two and I thought that they would perhaps grab a couple of undrafted free agents to add to those rooms and that didn't look like that happened. So one, what do we know about the Patterson guy from Vanderbilt? Is he a valid potential player this year? And who do we expect then? I'm expecting they're going to have to talk to more people into those two rooms. So do we have any credits, you know, inside track for that for those two positions? That's it. That's it.

[Chris Beam]

Good stuff.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Appreciate the call.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let me say really quick as in terms of the undrafted free agents, please don't count on any of those contributing at a high level for, for the Cowboys this season. I mean it's one of those things where it's like you're looking at guys at positions that you probably feel comfortable with.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, it's a lottery ticket.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Seriously, it's just. Just kind of feeling things out. I don't want to bank on any of those guys right now because time and time again, you've heard about these guys or, like, you'll have a favorite that you kind of keep watching and then, you know, lo and behold, by the time the season starts, it's like we've kind of moved on and, you know, they're not a part of the roster in. In that same fashion. Maybe a practice squad like this is figuring out your practice squad right now. I don't want to count on those guys contributing to starting positions or, you know, I don't want the thought to be there. Like, that's where the Cowboys are looking to fill their starting positions at linebacker or defense. Position at linebacker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well said.

[Josh Rodriguez]

In terms of undrafted rookie free agents,

[Kyle Yeomans]

if they would have. If they would have addressed the linebacker spot through undrafted free agency and said, this is our plan moving forward, Cowboys fans would burn down the star.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like, it would not be. It would not be a. An effective way of doing things. And yes, I know they still haven't done a ton to this point to try and address a glaring need at a position they traded for Dee Winters. I think that's. That's a great move. I think Jayshawn Barham does a lot for you at the second level if he can kind of grow into the role as we talked about earlier. But I don't. I still get the feeling they're not done. I really don't think they're done at linebacker, and that may be a big name that's elsewhere right now. Whatever it may be, it may be a veteran that's still out on the open market one way or the other. I don't think they're done yet and they're going to address it somehow, some way. It's not going to be through undrafted free agency.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, it's a. It's a. That's a big no. Like a. If they. Like a Bugs Bunny. No, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

If they felt like that was the case and that was their best option for filling a role, they would have drafted a couple of more guys at the linebacker position.

[Josh Rodriguez]

This is for camp. You need camp bodies. You need 90 guys out there. I mean, just consider that, like, that's still have one more doing. Oh, yeah, 91.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Patterson is talented, but to Kyle and especially Josh's point, these undrafted guys, if they hit magnificent. Wonderful. You cannot put that expectation on these undrafted guys, especially when at the linebacker position. I mean, they're high. Patterson is coming into a situation we talk about, we've been talking about depth. Cowboys are kind of high on Justin Baron as far as depth is concerned. So they. He'd have to get past Justin Barron, who's already shown some good things in his rookie season.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Special teams.

[Chris Beam]

Special teams specifically. So you know, Josh makes an excellent and a very accurate point. These are guys who likely are aimed at the practice squad development roles. And if it so happens that one or two of these guys, like a Michael Trigg, the tight end, could see that. Right. If he, if he were one, and he likely is going to be one, that stands out and forces the Cowboys to play the numbers game to keep him around. That's my early, way too early camp predictions that you're going to have to play the numbers game to figure out how to keep Trig in the building. But outside of a guy like that, and even with a guy like that, that you can't expect Trig is going to make an impact for the Cowboys on a starter level or even a TE2 level. This season. No, let them, you know, have their first camp. Let's see who sticks, practice squad or bottom of the roster. Right. And then let's go from there. But the answer rather be Patterson or anyone else. But specifically since the question was about Patterson. Patterson is talented. Yes. But he is far and away not the answer or your linebacker position. And Kyle and I and Joshua are all on the same page with this is we don't think the Cowboys are done. I'm of the mindset and I know Kyle agrees. We, we believe that whatever is going to come is going to happen after June 1st.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yep.

[Chris Beam]

And I'm just going to leave it,

[Kyle Yeomans]

signing, trade, whatever it may.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Lots of things to figure out there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It may happen after camp.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Or around camp. Whenever all the veterans are kind of

[Chris Beam]

like maneuvered out there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You got a whole nother pool of players to pull from whoever it may be. All right, Mike in New York. What's up, Mike?

[Patrick No See Walker]

What's going on, guys? I know it's been a pretty good off season for the Cowboys. My question is, is I know it's a long ways down the road.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Do you think we could be a

[Patrick No See Walker]

top 15 defense this year?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

We're just going to get right through it, huh?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Beam]

Yes, I do. No, I do.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't.

[Chris Beam]

State your case.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They're not there yet.

[Chris Beam]

State your case.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There we Just talked about.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, thanks Mike.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Mike just like threw a match into a fire or threw a match into like Gasol gift where it's like the

[Chris Beam]

little girl is turned looking at the camera, smiling and the house is on fire. Yeah, that's what I just did. I respect it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like the moves they've made. I like the thought process to this point. Part of me feels like the expectation, part of me feels like the faith in a first year defensive coordinator is a little bit overblown. He has not coldplays, he's been around people that have called plays that have been great, but he has not been thrown into the fire quite yet and that's quite literally what he's doing. You're asking a first year defensive coordinator and a second year head coach to completely revamp the defense entirely. To be a top 15 defense means you are above average on the defensive side exactly one off season after you were the worst defense in franchise history. I just don't think that's there yet. I could see them making marginal improvements and I'm not saying they're going to be the worst defense times two. But to be a top 15 defense, that is just unruly expectations.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let me for a team, I love

[Kyle Yeomans]

Caleb Downs, I love Quinn and Williams, I love Kenny Clark, I love all of the cornerstone pieces you're putting together on this defense. All of that is said to be true. But you still don't have a green dot. You still don't have a linebacker that you trust. You still don't have a pass rusher outside of Rashawn Gary and a second year jump from Donovan as rock who you feel like can get you 10 sacks and even that's probably asking a lot of those two guys. I don't think this is a top 15 defense yet. However, in two to three years you've got the framework, you've got the foundation and you've got a coordinator that's going to grow with the position. Then you can maybe tell me this is going to be a top 15 defense. I just don't see it in 2026 that defensive coordinator.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He quoted one Sun Tzu.

[Chris Beam]

All I needed to hear.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Writer of the Art of War.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's awesome. I like it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

A Handbook Guide to the Art of Combat. Military Combat.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I have loved every move that they've made on the defensive side of the ball. They are moving different in my opinion. In my uninformed opinion, I'm just a fan, really. Genuinely. I don't have inside information on any of these things. I like what they're saying. I like. I like the guides that they have. I like the guys that they picked. Caleb Downs is going to change the face of this defense. To me, top 15 says you can be 14 or 15 because it's top 15. Yes, I think they can do it.

[Chris Beam]

I'm say this really quickly because I know we got to get out of here. Yes, absolutely. They can be top 15. I'm qualifying it as such. I'm not saying they'll be top five. That would be fantastic. I'm not saying they'll be top 10. That'll be fantastic as well. I think they fall anywhere between 11 and 14 before the season is over. But we talked about it ad nauseam last season. All the Cowboys offenses it offense needed. Was it above average defense? They're in the playoffs and maybe making a run. I think when you look at the pieces, let's just go ahead and circle linebacker. That's glaring. You still have to address that period point blank. If you had addressed that, I'd be willing to put you in the top 10 right now, but I'm not because I need to see what happens there. But Caleb Downs and Malachi Lawrence and Kenny Clark, who wasn't here to start last offseason when it Williams wasn't here to start last regular season, you have these pieces. Jalen Thompson comes in. I think he's going to be a magnificent piece as well. So forth and so on. We'll see who takes the next step. Savone Revel. That we'll see. But the pieces I've named mixed with not just Christian Parker, but also the coaching staff behind Christian Parker. I think that all told, even when you throw in the glaring hole at linebacker, which I feel like they'll address after June 1st, we'll see. I think that this Cowboys defense, they're going to have their hiccups. Christian Parker is going to have his growing pains. But before this season is over, I believe this unit will have galvanized to the point and will have enough chemistry that we're looking at the stats and we're looking at their impact on film and we're saying this is one of the top 15 defenses in the league. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So you're saying by the end of the year.

[Chris Beam]

By the end of the year.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Not over the entire course of the year. So when you look down on NFL

[Chris Beam]

stats, let's be fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

When you look down on NFL stats.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. When we get to. By the time we get to Rio, they're not going to be.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, but that's, that's part of the growth there. Like we're gonna look. We have to allow for growth and we're gonna see. Statistically, at the end of 2026 season, are they a top 15 defense or

[Chris Beam]

not by the end of the season?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, over the course of the year. So their total from 2026, is it a top 15 deal?

[Chris Beam]

Okay. Yes. I'm still sticking with the yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. See, I don't think that's the case

[Chris Beam]

because I think more often than not they will.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think they'll be closer.

[Chris Beam]

More often than not, they'll put top 15 production and on film versus below.

[Kyle Yeomans]

If they improve 10 spots from last year, if they get to 21, 22,

[Chris Beam]

they're going to improve.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Awesome. And this, this offense can continue fighting the way that they fought last year and doing what they did. You get to 22 and then maybe your top 20 in turnovers or something like that. I think this is a playoff team. That's all you need. But I don't think top 15 is possible. Right. This. I like it.

[Chris Beam]

Can I say with my chest?

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm trying to.

[Chris Beam]

By the end of the first quadrant. Okay. We got four games in September. We don't know. Schedule hasn't come out yet. By the end of the first. I don't know, maybe by the end of the first four games. When we look at this defense, I predict this defense will be between 10 and 15. That's my prediction.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's bold.

[Chris Beam]

So 11, 12, 13 or 14, they'll be right there going into game five.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You know that linebacker that we can't really discuss right now. If you get that guy in, in the building, then.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Then I think we're talking about a top 20 defense at least.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I wanted to get your gauge on that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. If we're talking about that, at least a top 20 defense, maybe. Maybe even more.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. So keep in mind these.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But they don't have that front office. Listen to Kai.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They don't have that yet.

[Chris Beam]

Keep in mind these players are all ready to run through a wall already for guys like Christian Parker and these, these coaches.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I hope so.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So am I.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They haven't been playing games yet.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But before they play, they haven't been. They haven't been faced by another team that's had a great off season yet.

[Chris Beam]

Correct. I'm just saying it's also true. Multiple things can be true. This time last season, did you get the same energy for EBER flutes and his staff from players divide.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No.

[Chris Beam]

All right. No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was never the same.

[Chris Beam]

That's all I'm saying.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No. All right, that does it for us here on Talking Cowboys. Hope you had as much fun as we did here over the last 55 minutes. We'll be back next Tuesday to break it all down for you. For Josh Rodriguez, Patrick no see Walker, Chris Beam in the back, I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long from Talking Cowboys. We'll see you next week. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys football Club.