Talkin’ Cowboys: Running Back Buzz and Camp Battles Heating Up

Summary

Talkin’ Cowboys: Running Back Buzz and Camp Battles Heating Up

Podcast: Talkin’ Cowboys | Dallas Cowboys
Episode Date: August 5, 2026
Hosts: Nicole Hutchison, Patrick “No-see” Walker, Josh Rodriguez
Setting: Live from Cowboys Training Camp in Oxnard, California

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Episode Overview

This episode of Talkin' Cowboys centers on the heated training camp battles, with a spotlight on depth chart movement at running back and left tackle. The crew offers bold takes, sharp position analysis, and light-hearted banter, weaving together nuggets from recent practices, inside impressions, and breaking injury news—all in a fun, conversational “barbershop meets film room” style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Training Camp Trends: Offense vs. Defense

• Hosts’ Main Takeaway: The padded practice sessions have been fiercely competitive, showing a balance between offense and defense.
  • Day 1 of Pads: Defense dominated.
  • Day 2 of Pads: Offense bounced back strong.
    “Defense won in lopsided fashion on day one of padded practice… How would Dak Prescott and his band of talented colleagues bounce back on day two? They did exactly that.”
    —Josh Rodriguez (02:26)
• On Reserves: Defensive “twos and threes” standout, noted for strong communication—a night-and-day improvement from last year.
  “The defense is absolutely on fire right now...”
  —Patrick No-see Walker (03:04)

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2. Injury Updates & Personnel News

(News & Notes Segment) [04:31–07:43]

• Good News:
  • PJ Locke (S): Returned to practice after a hyperextended knee (04:31).
• Bad News:
  • Princeton Fant (TE): Suffered a torn ACL & partially torn MCL; will require surgery and is likely out for the season (05:04).
    • “At best, he’s done for significant time… at worst, we probably won’t see Princeton Fant until next year.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (05:44)
  • Elijah Clark (S): Sustained an ankle injury; big blow for special teams and safety depth (05:57).
    • “Elijah Clark… his motor is relentless.… hate to see that for Elijah Clark. Hope it’s nothing serious.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (06:24)
  • Demarvion Overshone (LB): Sat out of practice with a sore leg (“not serious” per team sources) (07:23).
• Breaking Update:
  • Elijah Clark’s MRI Clean – No major issues; expected to be ready for preseason opener (17:03).
    • “Great news on the Elijah Clark front.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (17:34)

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3. The Special Teams Conversation

Impact of Injuries [07:43–09:55]

• Both Clark and Fant’s losses hurt special teams, especially with C.J. Goodwin gone.
• Special teams coordinator Nick Sorensen faces roster allocation challenges, especially with who fills coverage/gunner and reserve tight end spots.
• Opportunity now surfaces for “bubble” guys, e.g., Anthony Smith (receiver), to step up via special teams.
  “When you see these players go down, this is your opportunity to step up and potentially make this team.”
  —Josh Rodriguez (11:45)

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4. Depth Chart Battles: Left Tackle

Tyler Guyton vs. Nate Thomas [17:55–32:12]

• Tyler Guyton:
  • Receiving the lion’s share of first-team reps at LT.
  • Praised for consistency, footwork, hand placement, and offseason/conditioning commitment.
  • Has largely neutralized camp “blindside” pressure on Dak Prescott.
    • “A lot of the pressure that is being felt by Dak Prescott is not coming from the blindside. That’s very, very promising.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (21:26)
    • “What we’re not saying through two padded practices and three non-padded—Tyler Guyton gave up one there.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (22:44)
  • Self-aware and working specifically on hand placement and pad level.
    • “He said, ‘hands… pad level’ …he leaned out, he got his own weight room in his garage now.”
      —Nicole Hutchison (23:20)
• Nate Thomas:
  • Called a top “swing tackle” option and needs to continue proving versatility.
  • Needs minor technique improvement to keep his spot as backup.
    • “I do believe Nate Thomas is…the best swing tackle. What he needs to do—improve to hold off guys like rookie Drew Shelton, Johnny Cornelius…”
      —Josh Rodriguez (28:08)
• If There’s an External Veteran Option?
  • Given budget and other needs (LB, CB), hosts would prioritize elsewhere unless necessity dictates.
    • “You only have about $4 million in cap. I would wait.”
      —Patrick No-see Walker (31:34)
• Bottom Line: If Guyton stays healthy, he’s your starting LT—competition is essentially over.
  • "If the answer is yes [Guyton is healthy], then that's your starting left tackle." —Josh Rodriguez (30:40)
  • “The storyline I wasn’t buying… was that there was an actual competition at left tackle. …There is no competition at left tackle.” —Josh Rodriguez (52:32)

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5. Camp Fire: Fights and Physicality

• Donovan Azaraku (DE): Ejected from practice after throwing a punch at Terrence Steele; second altercation in two days.
  • Hosts enjoyed the passion but cautioned about risking injury and disciplinary issues.
    • “I like the fire… But don’t let the fire burn the house down.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (26:45)
  • With a crowded OLB/EDGE room (Rashan Gary, Sam Williams, Jayshawn Barham), raw energy may help or hurt.

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6. Running Back Battle: The Buzz Segment [32:12–41:51]

RB1: Javonte Williams

• Firmly entrenched as starter. Still “ripped off a 60-yard TD run” in camp.
  • “There’s no question about who’s your RB1.”
    —Patrick No-see Walker (32:40)

RB2, RB3, and Bubble:

• Jaydn Blue: Standout camp so far; speed and open-field threat.
  • Working to improve as a pass protector—crucial for offensive versatility.
  • “Jaydn Blue is stacking great days…he has not missed or slowed a step at all.”
    —Josh Rodriguez (34:39)
  • Quote from Blue on his maturity:
    “Man, the game has slowed down a lot for me. It’s coming easy to me now. I probably know the playbook like the back of my hand now.” (36:41)
• Malik Davis: Veteran, reliable, “the holiday killer,” could end up as RB2 or RB3 but needs to fend off younger competition.
• Phil Mafah: Strong, physical runner—now flashing more after pads came on.
  • “Phil Mafah is kind of that bowling ball…had a slow start in non-padded, but he’s coming alive now.”
    —Josh Rodriguez (34:39)
  • Compared to Williams in physicality; praised for running through contact.
    • “Contact. He don’t shy away from contact. And that’s what you want in a running back in this offense.”
      —Nicole Hutchison (41:40)
• Israel Abanikanda: Making waves, scheme fit, shifty and fast, but still has to prove value in RB2/RB3 competition.
  • "He just looks so smooth in Shotty’s offense. I feel like he gets it.” —Patrick No-see Walker (40:36)
• Takeaway: No single backup matches Williams' all-around skillset; closest fit in physical traits is Phil Mafah.
  • “I don’t think you have one player behind Javonte that perfectly encapsulates everything… but the closest to me would be Phil Mafa.”
    —Josh Rodriguez (38:18)

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7. Rookie Risers & Bold Predictions [47:00–53:11]

• Rookie standing out (excluding Caleb Downs):
  • Josh: Malachi Lawrence (1st rd DE), quietly stacking positive days, benefiting from the attention on Caleb Downs.
    • “Malachi Lawrence is flying under the radar… he’s locked in, getting work done.”
      —Josh Rodriguez (47:32)
• Position battles the hosts refuse to overreact to:
  • Nicole: Demarvion Overshone ("Demo") at inside linebacker. Needs more grace and time to adjust to the new role.
  • Patrick: No overreaction to any concern about CeeDee Lamb's camp; believes he’ll benefit from new defensive looks and be just fine.
  • Josh: Never believed in an LT competition—in his mind, the job was Guyton’s as long as he’s healthy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Don’t let the fire burn the house down.”
  —Josh Rodriguez on camp fights (26:45)
• “If Tyler Guyton remains healthy, there is no competition at left tackle.”
  —Josh Rodriguez (52:32)
• “Jaydn Blue wants that RB2. He wants it real bad.”
  —Josh Rodriguez (37:12)
• “All of the things that you want to see from your players as a coach… But you have to have the ability to walk that razor thin line between the whistles and not go over...”
  —Josh Rodriguez (25:58)

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Important Timestamps

• Offense vs. Defense Camp Takeaways: 02:17–03:55
• Injury Updates: 04:31–07:43, Elijah Clark MRI update 17:03
• Special Teams Impact: 07:43–11:48
• LT Position Battle (Guyton-Thomas): 17:55–32:12
• Camp Fights (Donovan Azaraku): 24:12–27:26
• Running Back Battle: 32:12–41:51
• Rookie Standouts: 47:00–49:55
• Bold Predictions/Position Overreactions: 50:00–52:55

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Tone and Style

Vivid, energetic, and candid—the hosts balance sharp football insight with quick wit and warmth. Banter abounds, but always circles back to granular game analysis and Cowboys roster nuances.
“Barbershop banter meets film room”—with plenty of friendly ribbing and a few inside jokes.

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Summary Usefulness:
This recap provides Cowboys fans and general NFL observers with a complete sense of training camp momentum, key injuries, position battle narratives, and the emerging faces to watch—all in the same fun, passionate spirit of the pod itself.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Josh Rodriguez]

How about you?

[Casual Fan]

Cowboys.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Go Cowboys.

[Announcer]

This is Talkin Cowboys. Streaming live from Dallas Cowboys training camp in Oxnard, California.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

CD Lamb touchdown.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Boom over show. Prescott keeps it and he bangs it in for the touch.

[Announcer]

And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Nicole Hutchison.

[Nicole Hutchison]

You know the drill. You know what time it is. This is Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. Nicole Hutchinson, Patrick no see Walker, Josh Rodriguez. What's poppin, y'?

[Josh Rodriguez]

All?

[Nicole Hutchison]

How y' all doing?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Excellent.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We out.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Ya.

[Julio (Tailgate Host)]

You.

[Nicole Hutchison]

We outside.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

We need the air horn.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That part

[Guest Analyst]

I tried.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Right?

[Josh Rodriguez]

You did. I don't know about you and these. These not really impressions. Impressions are other people. I don't know about you and your onomatopoeia. It's not. It's not. It's not fire.

[Nicole Hutchison]

But at least I try. That's all that matters.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's not all that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You know, you must be good as well.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

But. But it is training camp after all.

[Dear Doctor Host]

Thank you.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

So you can practice here. You can make mistakes here. And it's all good. It's all for the greater good. As long as you bring it during the season, right?

[Nicole Hutchison]

I'll bring it during the season.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Always.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I'll practice. All right.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Bet that part.

[Nicole Hutchison]

So we're outside on our off day. Okay. Player off day. And shut off. Y' all are sick.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Turn off.

[Nicole Hutchison]

It's not really. Yeah, it's. It's really not an off day. Yeah, it's not.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, it's not.

[Nicole Hutchison]

It's not.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Not for us.

[Nicole Hutchison]

L. We've talked. Obviously. Padded practice. We've got to see a couple of padded practices. What's kind of stood out to you before we get to news and nose Pat.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, I mean, honestly, what's standing out is that it seems equally balanced at the moment as far as offense versus defense. Defense won in. In lopsided fashion on day one of padded practice. It wasn't even close. I think we can all agree to that. My question was how would Dak Prescott and his band of. Of very Talented, you know, colleagues bounce back on day two of padded practice and they did exactly that. They didn't win in the lopsided fashion as the defense did the day prior. However, they definitely stacked more wins than than losses and it felt like they control the day on Tuesday.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

If we're talking ones, absolutely it's been split. You know, first day was defense, second day was offense. But if we're talking about twos and threes, the defense is absolutely on fire right now and it is really impressive to see how much of a command CP has over his defensive unit. I'm very, very excited to see how these players, even the twos and threes are able to contribute throughout the season because there are a lot of guys that are contributing at high levels already now and the communication obviously is the biggest strong point for them. And night and day difference between compared last year to this year.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah, I've got to go with Josh on the defense in terms of first team reps obviously defense on the first day. Second day was an offense kind of winning that day. But I believe second and third team it's been defense all the way.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

All the way.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I mean we've talked about it at nauseam because it's literally that's what we have to do. Christian Parker has established what he wants to do. That is disguise, that is get to the quarterback, that is create turnovers. That is literally do everything beyond the sun. And so I love what he's doing so far. And you mentioned a good point with the communication we heard from Shoddy yesterday and he was just talking about how it's been on a whole high, you know, a whole different level this training camp. So you love to hear that. But y' all know what time it is. It's time for news and notes. Let's get it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

All right, so we got some not great news. We got some bad news and we got some some good news. Let's just lead with the the good news. PJ Lock was back at practice yesterday. He suffered a hyperextended knee in one of the non padded practices last week but he was getting worked back in on yesterday. So safety room gets a body back there. Talented young veteran signed this this veteran free agency and his reunion with Christian Parker. The very bad news is the Cowboys tight end room has lost Princeton fat for significant time. Princeton fant went down on day one of padded practice with what is being described as a torn M or torn ACL and partially torn mcl. He will require surgery which is in the next coming in the next few days or so. So Preston Fat is done for significant time. He will be headed to IR any day now. It's it TBD on if his season is done. But if I had to, yeah say based on the injury we probably won't see Princeton Fant until next year. So what does that do for a guy like Michael Trigg? Those are conversations that we can have here shortly. But Princeton fan likely done for the season at best. He's done at best. He's done for significant time.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Who am I missing? Safety's room. Safety you said?

[Nicole Hutchison]

PJ Locke already.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Elijah Clark. More bad news for the safety room. Elijah Clark went down yesterday on a play with he went down, he started grabbing his ankle so it's apparently an ankle injury. We're still waiting for more news on that. However, if Elijah Clark can't practice for the foreseeable future or if he misses any kind of time, that's going to be a little bit of a blow to the safeties room but a big blow to special teams, especially special teams room that no longer has CJ Goodwin to help kind of anchor that unit. Elijah Clark, we saw what he could do last year with the viral tackle against the Philadelphia Eagles. His motor is relentless. He's out here impressing. He's gotten one or two name drops from Brian Scheimer up on the podium during press conferences. So hate to see that for Elijah Clark. Hope it's nothing serious. We'll get more information on on that as we as we get it. But yeah, so Elijah Clark down for now. Princeton Fant down for the foreseeable future. Will miss significant time. PJ Lock back on the field. Getting worked in now I will say on a minor level I saw people on Twitter kind of oh my God, oh my God. Dak Prescott with a little bit of a sore elbow yesterday. However, he was a full participant throughout practice. Now demarvion Overshone did not participate fully in practice yesterday. He had a sore leg is what we were told. But in that same breath we were told that it's not serious. It's he's okay. That's the quote. He's perfectly fine. So I think that was more so of the Cowboys being cautious with a player that most certainly will help form and define the linebackers room going forward. His health is of the utmost importance and the Cowboys understand that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah, I want to talk about, you know there's a lot to kind of take in but I want to talk about the safety room because you, you mentioned Elijah Clark who was phenomenal on special teams. And you talk about a guy in Princeton fan who doesn't get a lot of love because he has spent time obviously between the active roster, practice squad, but he has been with the Cowboys for quite some time and you're expecting him to finally get that opportunity. Maybe an eight if they do keep four or five, maybe tight ends. We don't know that. But just, you know, from what he. The days he has put together. Talk about just those losses as a whole. Elijah Clark and Princeton fatigue. A guy who doesn't really get so much love.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Exactly. Like, especially on. On special teams. They're doing thankless jobs. They're doing jobs that you know, you're not seeing obviously from your ones and twos. The, the unit that they're putting together, Sorence is putting together for special teams is, is missing that C.J. goodwin, like they're missing that guy to really take over as far as special teams goes. Like their, their gunner, right. Elijah Clark is definitely one of those. Like you said, he made that special play last season. Losing him now, at least if it's a significant amount of time, which we don't exactly know yet, that would be very detrimental to the special teams as a whole. However, I feel like there's enough depth there between safeties, cornerbacks that you're able to improve that spot still. I think you're going to have a better special teams unit that you did last year because there were a lot of growing pains, especially coming off of like what Bones Fossil was able to do with the special teams unit and how great that was. I think there were some growing pains there. Overall, I think you have time to figure it out. Right now is the time.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Well, you need to have a better special teams unit. Let's not.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Absolutely.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Because field position was a problem last

[Patrick No-see Walker]

year, you absolutely need to improve, especially the return game. Like, I mean we're talking about Cavante Turpin, you know, as well, who definitely had a down year as far as like return game goes. But overall that unit needs to help block as well. So I mean it's, it's just across the board. They need to improve upon what they did last year.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Obviously, I think from a tight ends perspective and most certainly like you guys are talking about from a special teams perspective, special teams not only loses Elijah Clark, a promising young guy with a relentless motive, but it does in fact lose Princeton Fan.

[Guest Analyst]

Right?

[Josh Rodriguez]

So not entirely unlike C.J. goodwin, Princeton Fant has been kind of that security blanket. Right. He just quietly and he does his job, he does the dirty work and that's why he's been able to stick on this roster for so many years when so many fans don't exactly know what his contributions are. And it's because his contributions are quiet, but they're impactful. From the positional discussion as far as tight ends are concerned, what does this do for Michael Trigg, a player who has freakish athleticism but needs to develop in his technique and also needs to prove himself on special teams?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I would argue Brevin's fan for it as well. Like, is he going to be required to do special teams? More like, this is a guy that I'm like at tight end too. I'm very much considering just personally. But does that mean he has to take a step back and work on special team?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Or does. Or do they pull someone else in from a different position entirely?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Right, Exactly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We're talking about the safeties. And yes, you lost. You lost Elijah Clark, but, you know, does that make someone like a Marquis Bell have to go back and play some special teams to contribute? So Nick Sorenson, the team special team coordinator, he's going to have his hands full on trying to figure out who he can use to fill those spots. But at the same time, this is a numbers game. And the discussion then becomes, it's. It's Nick Sorenson's needs versus Christian Parker's needs. On defense, it's not as easy as just saying, hey, I want that guy. Yeah, right. Same on offense, you can't simply say, I want that guy. Especially if that guy is a name like Ryan Flournoy, for example. Who. Brian Schottenheimer sat right up on that podium and said, sometimes Nick Sorensen says, hey, can I get Flo for a couple reps? And Brian's like, no, he's kind of good boss. So you got to be careful in who you pick to fill these roles. But I will say for those guys that are on the bubble, the. The bottom third of the roster, you hate to see players go down. But when you see these players go down, this is your opportunity to step up and potentially make this team.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

There's a reason why there are 91 guys out there. You definitely have enough guys on your roster to fill that spot and figure it out. And like you said, an opportunity for someone to step up.

[Casual Fan]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Like an Anthony, for example. How does this play for Anthony Smith? You know what I mean? We were sitting here talking on Monday about Anthony Smith, the wide receivers room. You asked the question, Nicole, what's the level of confidence after wide receiver three, which is Floy and the confidence is, is pretty low. So the question is, how do they, how many do they carry? Well, maybe they carry a plus one now because they need a special teamer. And then maybe whoever that is, let's say hypothetically, it is Anthony Smith. Now, Anthony Smith has a leg in and he can potentially show what he can do on offense as well going forward. So again, hate to see guys going down, but as the NFL goes, one guy goes down, it's an opportunity for another guy to step up. These younger guys and these bubble guys just have to do exactly that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah. I want to take our first break a little early because I know this second segment is going to be. Well, I know we got a lot to say about this. I know we got a lot to say about the second segment. We're talking the left tackle position battle. Is it Tyler Guyton? Is it Nate Thomas? What does Nate Thomas need to do? What does Tyler Guy need to do? We're talking about the running back competition as well, where it kind of stands. Coming up in our next segment, we're going to take our first break here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee.

[Casual Fan]

M and M's popped caramel do sound different. Oh, no. People are gonna be obsessed.

[Announcer]

What do you mean?

[Casual Fan]

People hate the sound of chewing. Maybe they won't like the crunch.

[Announcer]

Maybe we're saved.

[Casual Fan]

Wait a minute. Yellow. Have you been eating them this whole time? Mmm.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So tasty.

[Casual Fan]

Hands off us.

[Announcer]

M&M's popped caramel. It's more fun together.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Sergey Ghosh, Heineken's chief AI officer, to learn how the company is brewing up new workflows with AI.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

If you can connect all the different applications, all the platforms remove fragmentation scale very quick. That's what we call the best connected role. That's where IBM is really partnering with us.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Crack a cold one and listen to our full [e-mail] smart talks.

[Dear Doctor Host]

Welcome back into Dear Doctor the show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of Dr. Pepper? Sheila, let's hear from our next caller. Would you.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Dear doctor, My friend supported me during a tough time, but what's the right gift that says thanks for being a shoulder to cry on?

[Dear Doctor Host]

Okay, this one's easy. I say give her a delicious Dr. Pepper. Nothing says thanks girl better than a one of a kind soda. Yes, any Dr. Pepper Flavored will do. Now, just a reminder that I don't need to be a real doctor to know that Dr. Pepper is the one you deserve.

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[Josh Rodriguez]

Picture yourself making your morning coffee. You know those few minutes while the water and the beans do their thing

[Patrick No-see Walker]

instead of scrolling, what if you video call the friend?

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[Josh Rodriguez]

a cup and a call.

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That's the new ritual. Internet backup requires eligible AT&T wireless service activation and power Source speeds vary. AT&T may slow data speeds if the network is busy. Backup may not be available in all locations. See att.com guaranty for full details.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The tailgate started just as a pickup truck and a grill, but now they're huge. I've always tried to make people feel welcome. You don't have to be a Cowboys fan to make a plate, but it helps.

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Julio, also known as Mr. Prime, lives up to the name with a tailgate worthy of America's team. That's why bank of America champions the Cowboys, their fans, and everyone who dares to ask, what would you like the power to do? Bank of America the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2026 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.

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Talking Cowboys

[Patrick No-see Walker]

get your copy of the official 2026 Dallas Cowboy star Magazine training Camp preview. Inside, you'll find scattering reports for every player on the roster, the current outlook at each position, battles to watch and more. Plus the pullout 2026 schedule poster. Visit your local Dallas Cowboys pro shop or Dallas Cowboys.com oh.com Sorry, I forgot

[Josh Rodriguez]

we I loved it when we stacked the melody on Monday.

[Casual Fan]

That was great.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There it is.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

There it is.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's too good. That's so good. It's too good.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I still feel like I need a little bit more work, but it's no that one. It was my best one.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's great. I love that. Welcome back into Talking Cowboys.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The impressions, right?

[Nicole Hutchison]

Presented by Black Rifle Coffee. Let's get into this left tackle really quickly. Oh, yeah, you gotta update.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We got an update during the break. That part on Elijah Clark. Really good news. I'd say it's great news. His MRI apparently came back clean, so there is no major issue to be concerned with today. The Cowboys have a non practice day. Kind of a walk through. This is going to help him as far as rest is concerned. Maybe he misses today and maybe tomorrow, but nonetheless expect Elijah Clark to be ready for the first preseason game against the Seattle Seahawks. So great news on the Elijah Clark front.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Like those words.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I like those words.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Hey, and you know, obviously Shotty did mention that you ain't going to see a lot of the stuff starters in preseason. It's gonna be crucial for breaking news, guys.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He said the Cats out the bag. Was the actual.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Let me say it right now before

[Josh Rodriguez]

y' all ask the Cats out the bag.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I'm dead. All right, let's get into the left tackle conversation. We also heard from Shota yesterday saying Tyler Guyton will stay at left tackle. He mentioned there was going to be a rotation of, you know, everybody getting some reps of between Tyler Guyton, Nate Thomas. Hell, Tyler Smith. But we've seen Tyler Guyton take a bulk of the left tackle snaps. I did see Nate Thomas get in there a little bit yesterday in first team reps, but I want to stick with Tyler Guyton first. What does he need to show you or what has she. What has he shown you that lets you agree with what Shotty made?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

That decision so far in this camp? I feel like it's consistency. I think consistency with the footwork consistent with his hands placement and he's not like getting blown up like, like we've seen in.

[Casual Fan]

In.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

In certain reps. And I don't want to say that overall because he's definitely had some good games. But Shotty's talked about it numerous times. It's his consistency so far. You see that now. And another big thing that I think I don't want to say goes ignored because I feel like we've talked about it ad nauseam, but it's his availability when we get into the season. The dog days are of the season. Is he going to be available for all these games and you know, obviously you're going to have a lot of movement along the offensive line. It's the most taxing unit that you have on, on the offense. So obviously you're going to have some moving around there. You want Nate Thomas to be able to swing if he absolutely has to. And let's not get it twisted either he's a big, physical dude. And the fact that it's even a conversation who's going to be the starter is. That's just indicative of how well Nate Thomas is and how consistent he is. But Tyler Guyton has the strength, he has the size, he has everything that you need out of left tackle. He just needs to put it all together for a full season.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Well, first of all, hey, Melvin, let me know if my volume is different. I moved the mic around for you, so hop in the chat and tell me about that. Since you're talking about everything else, Wink. When it comes to Tyler Guyton and this quasi position battle, which is what I'll call it, I think it was a motivational. Yes, absolutely. For Tyler Guyton coming into camp to say, hey, yes, you're going to have to battle with a former seventh round pick for your starting position. Oh, and by the way, we're not closing the door on possibly moving our, you know, future hall of Fame left guard over the left tackle if you're not doing what we need you to do. Tyler Guyton was one of the first people in the building. This is why Shoddy said he won one of the off season offseason awards. He was one of the first people in the building as early as February making sure that his body is ready to be durable and so that he can be as available as the Cowboys need. And I've said this time and again, when it comes to Tyler Guyton when he's on the field, yes, there are things to clean up. Penalties being one of those things, okay? But the only way you can start cleaning those up and start cleaning up your technique is if you're on the field. So one hand washes the other. I said yesterday doing the guest spot for Cowboys break and it was before Shott's press conference, which honest, man, you're

[Patrick No-see Walker]

doing the break, man.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Listen, man, they slid and I was

[Nicole Hutchison]

like,

[Josh Rodriguez]

they slid in the the DMS and I'm a loyal man, you know, but they did.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

It's a long camp, they needed my help.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's a long camp, they needed my help and you know, I'm here to, to oblige. So I'm back in business. I'm back home. You didn't cook dinner yet, so don't complain. Take care of home Josh and now come home more often. But no, all jokes aside, man shouting Hammer what he said yesterday after my spot on the break in which I said that Tyler guyn had taken 100 of the starting left tackle reps and my expectation was that he would continue to do so unless he consistently showed a regression of sort. Not an hour later, Scheimer gets on the podium and he says, yeah, Tyler Guy's staying at starting left tackle until further notice. Just shuts the door. The competition for the most part. So that tells you what Tyler Guyton has shown this offseason to the coaching staff. That also tells you what he's showing the coaching staff and us out here through what, five practices, Three non padded, two padded practices. A lot of the pressure that is being felt by Dak Prescott is not coming from the blind side. That's very, very promising. It's coming from guys like Quinn and Williams. It's coming from Jayshawn Barham getting sent on blitz packages. Demarvion Overshone being sent on blitz packages, things like that. Terrence Steele, who we know is a great run blocker, needs to improve a little bit on his pass pro. You see some pressure coming from his side. But what we're not saying through three to. Through two padded practices and three non padded practices, I've not heard anyone say yet. Tyler Guyton gave up one there.

[Nicole Hutchison]

No, that's fair.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Not at all. And you're also talking like, how advantageous is it for him to be going up against a defense that he has not seen before, you know what I'm saying? Like, he's getting everything thrown at him right now, and he's had very consistently good practices.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I thought, see, it was funny when we talked to. I believe it was me and you who talked to Tyler guiding off to the side.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yes, it was.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Just left me out of that. Cool.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah, my bad. Sorry.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Supposed to be home, that part.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Wow, man.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Making sure home is ready.

[Nicole Hutchison]

But no, I. I talked. We talked to Tyler Guyn and kind of asked him, you know, what was. What is the biggest thing that you need to work on? And he said, hands. Like, I mean, that's hand placement. That's not something that's not known. Right. He also mentioned playing with better pad level. He said he got in the weight room. He leaned out a little bit more this year. He got his own weight room in his garage now. And so you see the work that's been put in, in terms of his body, how he looks, the speed is a little bit there. I think it's a little bit better as well. And you're seeing the physicality against guys like Rashawn Gary, guys like Donovan as a Rocko who was kicked out of practice yesterday. That's sick. But they say, yeah, let's talk about it in A second. But they exchange words. So I think you're getting the help of this improved defense to kind of elevate the play of Tyler Guyton.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Yes.

[Nicole Hutchison]

And I want to do credit the defense that has allowed that to happen. But let's talk about Donovan as a Rocky. I know we're going off off topic.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

My goodness.

[Nicole Hutchison]

We'll get back to Nate.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

We got to talk about it. It's one of the bigger events to happen in practice yesterday.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah.

[Dear Doctor Host]

Yeah.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Because that's crazy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Tell me how you really feel. Yeah.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Donovan as a rocku, gets kicked out of practice, obviously threw a punch at Terrence Steele, I believe the day before him and Tyler Guyn got into it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Hence the physicality that's happening out there, the competitiveness out there on the field. Domin as a raku. Thoughts on the move of him getting kicked out of practice or do you like it?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Like, it's unfortunate because Shoddy talked very early about whenever the fads were first coming on. It's like we're trying to limit any fights, and it's like, you know, you got to be strong enough to not throw the first punch. You have to be strong enough not to engage in that. And these are your teammates. Of course you don't want to see that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

However,

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I like the fire, man. I like Easy out there doing his thing. Ultimately, it's not what the team wants. I totally understand that, but come on.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I forget that I want to see it.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Exactly.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Sorry. Maybe I should have kept that.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I. I completely concur with you.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I couldn't say the word I really want to say.

[Josh Rodriguez]

All right, so here. Here's where I am on it. I absolutely adore the fire. I love it. I crave it. It's passion. It's, you know, it's competitiveness. It's all of the things that you want to see from your players as a coach. Okay. It's also true, however, what conversation are we having right now? If. In throwing a punch at whomever. Terrence Steele. Let's say if throwing a punch. We're having a conversation that he injured his hand.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Throwing a punch at a helmet.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's fair.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You know what I mean? So this is what I mean when I say, yes, we love the passion. We love the competitiveness. We love the. The, you know, the hits talking. Hits.

[Nicole Hutchison]

You know, hits talking.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. We love the. We love the trash talk. We love all of those things. But you have to have the ability to walk that razor thin line between the whistles and not go over because if you go over, you're risking potential injury throwing a punch and in a game you're going to get flagged and ejected. So you. And then what does that do that also cost your team field position? And what if it's a close game and what if the division is on the line in that particular game? So this is as much about physical discipline as it is about emotional discipline. So I love it. I love it. I love it as far as the fire is concerned. But don't let the fire burn the house down is what I'm saying.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's a good point. And, and plus, when you're talking about an outside linebacker room that is very competitive right now, guys like Sam Williams who are standing out, guys like hey, J. Sean, but. Well, he really an inside linebacker, but he's playing outside linebacker. But the flexibility.

[AT&T Advertiser]

Right.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I mean, there's so many guys in that room who could be your starting outside linebacker with a Rashawn gear right now. So I think I love the fiery. I love the competitiveness. Competitiveness. I just need to see a little bit more controlled emotions when we're talking about Donovan as a rocku.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I love it though. Agree.

[Dear Doctor Host]

I like it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I like.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Don't lose the fire.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Just I like it when he's angry.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let the fire burn the house down.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That part. That part. All right, let's get back to the left tackle conversation because I know we kind of went off topic. My bad, y'.

[Casual Fan]

All.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Nate Thomas, what does he need to prove? Because I mean, Shotty said this offseason there's going to be a left tackle competition. He said yesterday it will be Tyler Guy saying a left tackle. What do you need to see from Nate Thomas?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Again, it's just that flexibility that be being able to play on both sides. Because I think it's. Even if Tyler Guyton is named the starter going forward, that's not the last time you're going to see Nate Thomas on the field. I mean, you have to be able to rely on him and his flexibility across the line is going to be very, very, very important. So just consistency as far as I'm concerned.

[Josh Rodriguez]

For me, when it comes to Nate Thomas, it goes to the consistency, but it also goes to just slight improvement in technique and. And making sure that. Because I don't believe that he's a better left tackle option than a healthy locked in Tyler Guyton. But I do believe that Nate Thomas is, as we have this conversation, the best swinging tackle.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Absolutely.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So what he needs to do, improve to hold off guys like rookie Drew Shelton and Johnny Cornelius and some of these other guys, Trevor Keegan, a veteran, you know, who, who was brought in just in case the Cowboys need to make a change at, at swing tackle. So for Nate Thomas, it's about staving those guys off and, and continuing to prove that in the event Guy and misses any, any time at all that he, Nate Thomas can step in and do some things.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

And you're talking about, like we talked about motivation in terms of Tyler Guyton as far as shotty saying, like, now it's a competition. Left tackle is not secure. We need to figure out this, this position battle right now. Yeah, I think as much as it was motivation for Tyler Guyton, I think it was a confidence boost also for Nate Thomas to say that you're even in the conversation right now. Yeah, I, I, I think that's good for him ultimately, both of them.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Do you believe that? Let's say this is just me throwing things out there. Okay. This is not me saying it's what I do. It's what I'm supposed to do. Be a little messy. No, I'm just kidding.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

A little.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Hey, make a little spicy out here.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Drop it in the comments. Do you think she's messy or not?

[Nicole Hutchison]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They don't. They don't. A lot of us don't know her yet to know that she's talking Cowboys nation, those who saw girls talking.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Nicole is messy.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I like to add a little spice. Ain't nothing wrong with that messy hutch, but like, okay, let's see what happens here.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay, what if, hypothetically speaking, whenever it starts like that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Hypothetically speaking. Right. You get down to the wire. We're at the third preseason game. Okay, I lied after the third preseason game.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So right before week one, roster cut downs.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Roster cut downs. And obviously neither of these guys are going to get cut. But clearly, if you are talking about who is your starting left tackle at that point, what will be the deciding factor between a Nate Thomas and a Tyler Guy?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Is Tyler Guyton healthy?

[Nicole Hutchison]

I mean, at that point.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

At that point. At that point, yes.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's the only deciding factor.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

That's the only way Nate Thomas starts over. Tyler Guyton. Is it? Tyler Guy is not available and not healthy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's fair. Because Tyler Guy has suffered an injury out here in trading camp camp before. Which means if we're having that conversation that you're having right now at that point going into week one post preseason game number three, the only question for me is, did Tyler Guy and make it through training camp completely Healthy and I'm with Josh. If the answer is yes, then that's your starting left tackle.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Let me take this spice to a whole new level.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Oh, my goodness.

[Nicole Hutchison]

We're at that point and you say okay, about evened out. I don't know what that was anyways. What is that?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Easily distracted.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's crazy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Thriller video.

[Nicole Hutchison]

We're at that point. Roster Ghost is here and we see hypothetically a left tackle available that's veteran, proven they can stay healthy. What are you doing?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

You have $4 million confident in. Am I correct? $4 million cap space.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I can confirm.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I also need a linebacker. I also need a possibly. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Chris Beam just yelled out corner, corner, off the ropes.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

There are some other positions to address and you only have about $4 million in cash. I. I would wait.

[Nicole Hutchison]

And this is 5.5. 5.5, 5.5. This is not me making things spicy. This is not me saying that. I agree. Because some of y' all like to think that and take and run and all that extra stuff. Anyways, let's talk running back competition. All right.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Please.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah, I know, I know y' all been waiting for this moment.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Wait, this going to be a long segment.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I know.

[Casual Fan]

Okay. All right.

[Nicole Hutchison]

But it's fine. We're going to just keep it going. All right. Jaden Blue, Malik Davis, Phil Mafa, Israel Abanakanda.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There you go.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I said it that time. Thoughts, thoughts on now what that group has shown you through the first, what, two padded practices?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Well, I mean, just looking at yesterday, Javante Williams is as solid as ever. I mean, he ripped off a 60 yard touchdown run.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I left out Devonte just because.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Oh yeah, we're not talking about talking death pieces.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You know why? Because we. Because he's leaving Javante.

[Julio (Tailgate Host)]

Yes.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Right.

[Nicole Hutchison]

This time.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

But I mean, you need to give him his flowers too because like that part, that spot is solidified. There's no question about who's your RB one, obviously. But he even came into camp saying like, I, I need to go out there and pro prove it again. And they're being as cautious as they were last year. We're not seeing a whole lot of Javonte Williams. However, I just needed to shout out that 60 yard touchdown. Oh, my goodness. However, the depth pieces Jaden Blue Cannon will be dangerous in open space. The short passing game will be improved if he can prove himself as a consistent, good pass protector. Like, because if you just use him in those short game situations, every defense is gonna. Okay, this is. It's going to Jaden Blue, obviously, if he can shore up that pass defense, the, the, the, the blocking actually then he will be versatile enough to be able to scheme him into Shoddy's offense. I think that's what they're really looking for. That's what the whole rub on him was last year. Malik Davis, you know exactly who he is. He's the holiday killer as Shotty called him. He shows big moments.

[Nicole Hutchison]

What a name.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I love that.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

But most impressive for me so far once the Pads got on was Israel by Conda because in a big way I feel like he minus the fumble, but I feel like he fits Shotti's offense like a glove. Like I think he's exactly what shot he's looking for. And just from the eye test I was like, this guy looks great in this offense like for years to come. Like, it just feels like he blends in so perfectly with it. I'm excited to see how that plays out. Granted, we're talking depth pieces if you know the roster is the thing. The roster cut down is very much a thing. I would like to still see him on this team though.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Like you said, Josh, Javante Williams is very much still Javante Williams and I say he's going to take a step up and a step forward in his second year with the Cowboys. As far as those behind him, Jay and Blue, he's carrying over. He's, he's stacking. Not just good days. Jaden Blue is stacking great days. Okay. And non padded. When it came to padded practice, we were like, okay, well once the pads come on, we'll get a better idea of what these running backs look like. Jayton Blue has not missed or slowed a step at all. Phil Mafa, who I thought had a little bit of a slow start and non padded, he's coming alive now that the pads are on, which is not surprising because Phil Mafa is, is kind of that bowling ball, kind of that cannonball, downhill runner. I said this in the scouting report after he was drafted by the Cowboys out of Clemson. He's a little bit shiftier and faster than people give him credit for because his utilization at Clemson was mostly take the ball and be the hammer and just wear down and tenderize the defense. But we, I said, I almost said something, but I went to defense, tenderize the defense. Yeah, okay. But yesterday Phil Moffat was standing out to me as much as Candle was as much as Jay and Blue was. So I love that. And when it comes to Malik Davis, not to be over shadowed at all. You saw what Malik can do last year. He had a breakout year contextually for, you know, his journey, having been waved five times and finally getting his his just due and then taking the opportunity and no pun intended, running with it. So Malik Davis is going to remain in the mix this entire time, of course, versus Jaden Blue. My question is can Israel Abanakanda and Phil Mafa make enough waves to apply pressure to Malik Davis and Jayton Blue at RB2? And I also love we talked to Jay and Blue yesterday and I did a feature article on him based on that on Dallas Cowboys.com

[Nicole Hutchison]

oh dang it.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Let's try it again.com

[Josh Rodriguez]

Much better. We'll get there. And here's a perfect quote. He he talked a lot about the maturity he and I spoke this offseason. He said he's quote unquote a different person. I asked him about that yesterday, diving into the playbook. He said yes, absolutely. Man, the game has slowed down a lot for me. It's coming easy to me now. I probably know the playbook like the back of my hand now. End quote. That is massive because one of the biggest reasons Jaden Blue was ruled inactive so many times last season was because he was unfamiliar with the playbook or at least, at least unfamiliar to the point where the Cowboys were not comfortable putting him out there to try to protect Dak Prescott. So hearing what he's saying and also seeing it come to fruition in real time behind us, oh, Jaden Blue wants that RB too. He wants it real bad.

[Nicole Hutchison]

You get make a make a good point of being out there to protect Deck. And that's yes, the reason, not the reason, but one of the reasons why Javante Williams has had so much success. His pass protection is one of the best in the NFL amongst all running backs, in my opinion.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's also science proves that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

It does prove that as well. Shout out to Patrick Nosy Walker. And yes, when you talk about to Josh's point of what you need to be in this offense, you've got to be able to pass protect, right? And as a running back, you got to be able to help in the passing game, you got to be able to create on your own as well because that is what Javante Williams has been able to do. When you look at the rest of the room, which running back gives you kind of similar traits of being able to do all of those things in

[Josh Rodriguez]

one I don't think you have one player behind Javante that perfectly encapsulates everything Javante is. But the closest to me would be Phil Moffa and I say that because Jay in blue excels in space. He's working on his pass pro, kind of needs to get there. He can get his hands dirty in the A and B gaps, but that's not his game. Abanakonda, like you said, he's kind of a perfect scheme fit. He can play well in space. He's shiftier traits that Javante has. But you're not looking to hand the ball off to Israel and say, go push this. This linebacker back four yards. Phil Mafa, though, has the same type of physicality and demeanor as Javante Williams. Because if you look at Javante, wow, he, Javante is shifty and quick and fast and good in space and good in pass pro. He also loves getting his hands on defenders. I mean, that is a huge part of his game. He just wants to. To beat the hell out of them. Right. There has to be some linebacker in his DNA because the way he just runs and gets at guys. Phil Maf was the same. Phil Mafa really thrives. There was a play yesterday, I tweeted this because I was curious. Phil Moffat had what would have been a great run. He took the hand off. Beautiful jump cut. Patience. Jump cut. Saw the gap. Who fills the gap immediately? Kobe Durant. And they meet. Yes.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Right after the collide, if you will,

[Josh Rodriguez]

at the one yard line. And they both had to pull up. And I said it out loud and I said it on, on Twitter yesterday. In a real time situation, I fear Kobe Durant would have discovered that Phil Mafa in space running at you full speed is not the guy you want to get in front of. So I'm gonna go Phil Mafa.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Okay.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

That's a great point, man. And I, I would definitely agree.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And I love Kobe Durant.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He would have fafo'd yesterday if Phil was allowed to run full speed just

[Patrick No-see Walker]

to, just for the hot take purposes. Because you already took film off. You already took him. No, no, just for the hot take.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I like Izzy, I like Israel Abanakanda. I feel like, like I said before, he just looks so smooth in Shotty's offense. I feel like he gets it, he understands. And then all it's the versatility that he brings as well as. As far as Michael Jackson's coming up. We gotta go back here, fellas. This is terrifying. Israel by Gonda. That'll be mine. What about you, Nicole?

[Nicole Hutchison]

I, I say you're not asking anybody to be exactly like a Javante Williams. Right? But I, I love that there's a luxury of having so many of these different guys in this room who can bring maybe three, four of the things that Javante Williams can do. But I've got to go and agree with Patrick. I'm sorry. Like, yeah, Phil Mafa is shares is the guy I can share. Sharing is caring. I gotta go. Phil Mafa. There was also another play and I love me some Josh Butler. Yes, love me some Josh Butler. But Phil Moffa ran him over yesterday

[Josh Rodriguez]

telling you like it. He don't want to be in that path.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Contact. He don't shy away from contact. And that's what you want in a running back in this offense. And so yeah, I gotta go film off of But y' all know what time it is. It's time to take our second break, unfortunately.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Let's do it.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Okay, we gotta take our second break here on Talking Cowboys. Up next, we got bold predictions.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Yeah, we're getting real pop that B.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Because you know who we're presented by. Black Rifle Coffee. So good. Take our second break here on a Talking Cowboys. We'll be right back.

[Casual Fan]

M M's popped caramel do sound different. Oh, no. People are going to be obsessed.

[Announcer]

What do you mean?

[Casual Fan]

People hate the sound of chewing. Maybe they won't like the crunch.

[Announcer]

Maybe we're saved.

[Casual Fan]

Wait a minute. Yellow.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Huh?

[Casual Fan]

Have you been eating them this whole time? Mmm.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So tasty.

[Casual Fan]

Hands off us.

[Announcer]

M&M's popped caramel. It's more fun together.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Sergey Ghosh, Heineken's chief AI officer, to learn how the company is brewing up new workflows with AI.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

If you can connect all the different applications, all the platforms remove fragmentation scale very quick. That's what we call the best connected pro. That's where IBM is really partnering with us.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Crack a cold one and listen to our full [e-mail] Smart Talks.

[Announcer]

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[Dear Doctor Host]

Welcome back into Dear doctor The show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of Dr. Pepper. Sheila, let's hear from our next caller, would you?

[Nicole Hutchison]

Dear Dr. My friend supported me during a tough time, but what's the right gift that says thanks for being a shoulder to cry on?

[Dear Doctor Host]

OK, this one's easy. I say give her a delicious Dr. Pepper. Nothing says thanks girl better than a one of a kind soda. Yes, any Dr. Pepper flavor will do. Now, just a reminder that I don't need to be a real doctor to know that Dr. Pepper is the one you deserve.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The tailgate started just as the pickup truck and the grill, but now they're huge. I've always tried to make people feel welcome. You don't have to be a Cowboys fan to make a plate, but it helps.

[Julio (Tailgate Host)]

Julio, also known as Mr. Prime, lives up to the name with a tailgate worthy of America's team. That's why bank of America champions the Cowboys, their fans and everyone who dares to ask what would you like the power to do? Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2026 bank of America Corporation Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Picture yourself making your morning coffee.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

You know those few minutes while the

[Josh Rodriguez]

water and the beans do their thing.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Instead of scrolling, what if you video call the friend?

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[Josh Rodriguez]

a cup and a call.

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[Announcer]

Back to Talking Cowboys

[Josh Rodriguez]

Rally Days Sheesh. The countdown to game day starts with rally day presented by SeatGeek. The day before select home games, get a tour of AT&T Stadium autographs from the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, always a great thing and alumni play games on the field and more. Get your tickets@att stadium.com rally where's the.com

[Patrick No-see Walker]

josh.com

[Josh Rodriguez]

that one's for Isaiah. That was I think Isaiah. Isaiah, can you go? Go falsetto that part we'll find out

[Nicole Hutchison]

when you get we're back coming to you from Oxnard, California at Cowboys training camp Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. I just want y' all to know that like when I drink black rifle coffee because I used to drink it a lot.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I would get you still drinking every day though?

[Nicole Hutchison]

I mean, absolutely. Why not, right?

[Dear Doctor Host]

Yeah.

[Julio (Tailgate Host)]

Yeah.

[Nicole Hutchison]

I Get real bold.

[Josh Rodriguez]

How bold? Real bold. Okay, I'm sorry, Are you trying to put some bass in your voice?

[Nicole Hutchison]

Let's try that again.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Real bold. Oh, my God. Bless you.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

You're going to pop the B, though.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Bless your heart.

[Casual Fan]

Bold.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Complete absence of their tone. It's a positive, though, that you. You know, it's a positive.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That part. We are gonna get real bold.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Come on.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Final segment to wrap up. Are y' all ready for this?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Let's go.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You ready for this?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

All right, that's a copyright strike.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What? Only if I do it for a certain number of seconds.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

That was actually.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I don't. I don't know what the seconds are, but there's a certain length of time that if you cut it off in like four seconds, they can't. They can't.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Everybody okay?

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yep. All right. One rookie. Y' all are sickos. One rookie who's forcing his way into conversations, and you cannot use Caleb Downs.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, okay.

[Nicole Hutchison]

All right.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You beat me to the buzzer.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Oh, you gotta pick a different guy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, well, I really don't have to.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

You know what I want. That's the rules of the show, man.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Come on now. Barham, I'm gonna go with. You said we can't do Kel down.

[Casual Fan]

So

[Josh Rodriguez]

the rookies who you said. Bieber. Anthony Smith. I was going to say, yeah, that's a good Anthony Smith. So let me go. Malachi Lawrence. I think Malachi Lawrence is flying under the radar as one of the. One of the two first round picks for the Cowboys alongside Caleb Downs. And all Malachi Lawrence is doing is keeping his head down. He's locked in, he's getting work done. He's not one that we consistently call out as being beaten on reps, but obviously he's getting his lumps against this offensive line. So I think Malachi Lawrence is one to keep an eye on most definitely.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

As far as, like, being under the radar, does that concern you guys for a first round pick?

[Nicole Hutchison]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. You know why he's under the radar?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Why?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Because of Caleb D. Literally, that part.

[Nicole Hutchison]

And it's been that since he arrived here in Dallas, you know, Like, I feel like everybody, when they had the press conference and everything, it was all about Caleb Downs, you know, But I think he likes that. I think he likes the fact that he's kind of flying under the radar. You know, you're not.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

The pressure's not there.

[Nicole Hutchison]

The pressure is not there. And especially when you are in a room like I've already mentioned, like, you're in. You get to Learn you get to, you know, kind of work under the radar. I think he likes it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, I think he's. He's out there chopping and that's fine. He's out there chopping wood most certainly. And because so many people probably view Malachi Lawrence as, quote unquote, the other first round pick, which is kind of an oxymoron because he's still a first round pick, right. But for me, it's about viewing it the correct way, which is he's one of two of the Cowboys first round picks. And once you start viewing it like that, then you'll set the appropriate expectation, but. Excellent point. This guy coming from ucf, he's been doubted all his life. He's coming from a small program and he's coming into a Cowboys program that didn't, you know, most recently have a lot of success with the UCF program by name of Tristan Hill. So Malachi Lawrence is looking to rebuild the UCF brand here in Dallas, and flying under the radar, I think is going to play out well for him, especially when the. The season gets going and opposing defense, opposing offenses, I'm sorry, are keen in on Caleb Downs as from the rookie standpoint, and you know, Donovan as rock from a year two standpoint. And then here comes Malachi Lawrence, who they haven't studied like they probably should have, right. Getting a couple of sacks from the outset. So hopefully that's what we're seeing. But we are seeing him stacking some. Some solid days.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Y' all ready to get bold again? That was a little better.

[Casual Fan]

Okay.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Okay.

[Casual Fan]

Bold.

[Julio (Tailgate Host)]

Bold. All right.

[Nicole Hutchison]

All right, thanks. One position battle or storyline you're refusing to overreact to?

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Oh, I don't know. I don't know about that. Nicole, what is yours? What is yours?

[Nicole Hutchison]

I'm gonna go Demo. Demo kind of flying under the radar. I. I don't know who I heard talking about this a couple of days ago. And they were like, well, is Demo really right for the inside linebacker position? I was talking.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I think that was us on this show.

[Nicole Hutchison]

No, no, it wasn't us. It wasn't us questions, but I can't remember who I was talking to, but it was more so. Or maybe it was about the mic position. And I think that a lot of people forget that demarvi Nova shown battled with injuries. He battled. He's now dealt with, what, four defensive coordinators since he got here in Dallas. So you're getting basically four new schemes as well. I think he might be at his best at inside linebacker because Patrick Made a good point. It was Patrick about, you have to kind of put on some weight at

[Josh Rodriguez]

outside linebacker, and I'm not with that. And you saw him get much love to demo, but there was a rep where he tried to rush off the edge as an outside linebacker and Tyler guy and absolutely devoured.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And immediately I added Nicole Hutchinson and Josh Rodriguez. Keep demo off the ball.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Yeah. I think he. It's gonna take a lot more time for him to kind of really understand the mic role, because you are commanding, you are communicating a little bit more, but I think that we just got to give him a little bit more grace. So I'm not with that whole storyline of whether or not he fits that inside linebacker. Really doubting the fact that he fits that inside linebacker.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I got my storyline.

[Nicole Hutchison]

All right, go ahead. We got, like, three minutes, so let's.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

Less than that.

[Nicole Hutchison]

Okay, cool.

[Guest Analyst]

Cd.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

There's nothing wrong with cd.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Cd.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

CD is doing his thing out there. If anything, like, he had a rough day that. That first day that we talked about in pads. I think a big part of it is that CD has not been challenged like he's been challenged at training camp like this.

[Nicole Hutchison]

That's fair.

[Patrick No-see Walker]

I think this, like we talked about last week, this is a bit of. Or last episode. This is a bit of a chess match. And this is the first time that he's seeing the defense as well. So, I mean, genuinely, I am. I'm very much of the mind that CD is going to be just fine. Don't worry about cd. It's just a growing pain. And going up against this new defense,

[Josh Rodriguez]

the storyline I wasn't buying weeks and months ago was that there was an actual competition at left tackle. My point was, if Tyler Guyton remains healthy, there is no competition at left tackle. Fast forward to now, and guess what? Brian Schottenheimer confirms there is no competition at left tackle. So, yeah, that's the storyline. I wasn't buying then, not buying now, and I won't buy in the future as long as Tyler Guyton stays healthy.

[Nicole Hutchison]

All right, man, well, this has been fun. I know we gotta go. Let's hurry up and get out of here before Chris curses that part. All right, y', all, this has been Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee for Josh Rodriguez. Patrick no see Walker. I'm Nicole Hutchinson. We'll see y' all back here on Friday.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They got it right this time.

[Announcer]

This has been a production of DallasCowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

[Josh Rodriguez]

How about this?

[Casual Fan]

Cowboys.

[Announcer]

Snoring gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm Shaquille o' Neal and this shouldn't

[Announcer]

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[Josh Rodriguez]

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[Guest Analyst]

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[Announcer]

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