Talkin’ Cowboys: Same Problems, New Angle

Summary

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Talkin’ Cowboys: Same Problems, New Angle

Date: December 22, 2025
Podcast: Talkin’ Cowboys (Dallas Cowboys)
Episode Theme:
A candid, in-depth breakdown of the Cowboys’ disappointing 34-17 loss to the Chargers, what’s gone wrong with the 2025 season, and what the team needs to address moving forward—particularly their persistent physicality and defensive issues.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Opening Reactions to Another Disappointing Loss

• Tone: Somber and direct; the hosts immediately opt not to “cheer up” the fans but to analyze the hard truths.
• Record and Playoff Elimination:
  • Cowboys fall to 6-8-1, officially eliminated from playoff contention with three games remaining.
    • “A lot of disappointment I think around the 2025 season… the talent and how they were, how they played yesterday.” – Kyle Yeomans [02:14]
  • Eagles also eliminated.

2. Defensive Collapse & Lack of Physicality

• Get-Right Game Myth Reversed:

  • The Cowboys, supposed to benefit from the Chargers’ weak offensive line, instead registered zero sacks—a first for Chargers’ QB Justin Herbert all season.
    • “Justin Herbert was not sacked for the first time this entire season. Cowboys did not sack Justin Herbert a single time. He was back there playing Madden.” – Patrick Walker [03:13]

• Defensive Adjustment Failures:

  • New plan with Matt Eberflus in the booth produced no improvement; the defense was dominated.
    • “This looked to be one of the worst performances I’ve seen from the Dallas Cowboys defense.” – Josh Rodriguez [04:47]

• Accountability and Scheme:

  • Hosts caution against putting all the blame on Eberflus; players’ effort and assignment failures are equally at fault.
    • “Guys need to be held accountable to not handling their assignments.” – Isaiah Stanback [07:54]

• Statistical Lowlights:

  • Chargers scored on 6 of 8 drives.
    • “Their offense scored against our defense six of eight times.” – Isaiah Stanback [06:53]

• Players Lost:

  • Injuries: Ryan Flournoy (knee), DeMarvion Overshown (concussion) likely out for Christmas Day.

3. Offense: Fast Starts, Slow Finishes

• First Half Production:

  • Cowboys offense started strong—scoring on all but one first-half possession.
  • Second-half offense: “Punt, turnover on downs, turnover on downs, fumble.” – Isaiah Stanback [07:08]
    • “Offensively you had a good start. Defensively, wasn’t great at all.” [07:21]

• Key Moments & (Another) Missed Opportunity:

  • “Ticky-tack” holding penalty wiped out a Ryan Flournoy TD.
  • Odd play-calling criticized (e.g., 4th and inches handoff to fullback Hunter Luepke instead of a QB sneak).

• Miscommunication:

  • Notable play: Kevontae Turpin stopped running his route, ultimately stalling a drive.
    • “You're Kevontae freaking Turpin. Get past this guy.” – Isaiah Stanback [10:18]
    • “Offense is not excused from the loss.” – Patrick Walker [10:33]

• Overdependence on Perfection:

  • The refrain: this year’s Cowboys needed the offense to play perfectly to have a chance, which is “unrealistic.”
    • “To expect an offense to be perfect in the National Football League in 2025 is unrealistic. But they've had to be perfect.” – Kyle Yeomans [11:15]

4. Physicality: Cowboys Outmatched

• Recurring Theme in Losses:

  • In every recent loss, the Cowboys were “out-physicaled.”
    • The hosts name-check each loss and agree nearly every opponent was tougher in the trenches. [14:33–15:35]

• Personnel Gaps:

  • Dallas’s physical defensive identity only extends to the interior; edges, linebackers, and corners lack that edge.
    • “You need some goons… physicality, a lot of it is mentality.” – Isaiah Stanback [18:31]

• Team Construction Philosophy:

  • Need “goons,” players with an edge—mentally and physically—was a repeated point.

5. Organizational Accountability & Failure

• Team-wide Responsibility:
  • Not just one area or coach to blame; all in the building—from players to front office—share responsibility for the letdown of 2025.
    • “In 2025, we all underachieved.” – Patrick Walker [20:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Once again, the Cowboys are the get-right game.”
  – Patrick Walker [02:37]

• “Ham, no burger… peanut butter, no jelly. That’s the theme with this Cowboys team.”
  – Patrick Walker [03:43]

• “You have a bowl of Lucky Charms without any milk to speak of. …It's flashy, but there's no depth.”
  – Josh Rodriguez [16:08]

• “You need some goons… some guys that are like on the edge that you gotta reel them in a little bit.”
  – Isaiah Stanback [18:31]

• “It's an organizational type of failure.”
  – Kyle Yeomans [19:28]

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Highlight | |------------|------------------| | 02:14 | Yeomans summarizes elimination/disappointment | | 03:13 | Walker: Defense can't pressure, no sacks on Herbert | | 04:47 | Rodriguez: Eberflus adjustment failed, defense shredded | | 06:53 | Stanback: Chargers scored on 6 of 8 possessions | | 10:18 | Stanback: Turpin stops on route; offensive miscommunication | | 11:15 | Yeomans: Offense had to be “perfect” to compensate | | 14:33–15:35| Physicality check: every loss, Dallas out-muscled | | 16:08 | Rodriguez: “Bowl of Lucky Charms without milk…” | | 18:31 | Stanback: Cowboys lack “goons,” edge-mentality | | 19:28 | Yeomans: “Organizational type of failure” | | 20:11 | Walker: “We all underachieved” |

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Offseason Fixes & Draft/Free Agency Debate

Where Do They Start Rebuilding?

• Defensive Fix Prioritized:
  • “You have your DT position solved. So solve your DE. You have to get a pass rush.” – Patrick Walker [26:29]
• Draft Priorities:
  • Hosts agree: two 1st-round picks should go to DE and linebacker; maybe corner.
  • Disagreement: Stanback notes corner is the hardest to find and retain, pressing for a Day 1 investment at CB.
• Resource Constraints:
  • Cowboys have two 1st-rounders, but no 2nd or 3rd-round pick.
    • “You got to hit both of them. Both… Day one starters.” – Rodriguez [33:33]
• Roster Construction Headaches:
  • Inability to cover all defensive needs with limited premium resources.

Offensive Line and Coach/Coordinator Assessment

• Coaching Staff Trust:
  • Yeomans and Stanback discuss how head coach Schottenheimer was forced to overly manage a failing defense, potentially hampering offensive evolution.
  • “If you're supposed to be cooking dinner and the kids are acting up… it's not an excuse, it's a reason.” – Patrick Walker [45:29]
• Stanback’s Leadership Theory:
  • Argues head coaches should be “leaders of men” and not primary play-callers, so they can oversee every facet of the team.

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Offensive Playcalling: Did Schottenheimer Evolve?

• “No, I don’t think he’s evolved as a play caller.” – Josh Rodriguez [40:31]
• “I think he became more predictable as the year went on... I don’t foresee him going back to back years with that same issue.” – Isaiah Stanback [49:17]
• Theory: Once the offense coordinator spent more time trying to bandage the defense, the offense lost some creativity and momentum [42:26–43:05].
• Still, Cowboys produced one of the league’s best statistical offenses; the “sin” was not being perfect every week.

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Final Thoughts & Season Perspective

• Summary:
  • Cowboys 2025: A team with gaudy offensive stats, no playoff hope, and a glaring lack of physicality/team toughness.
• Blame Shared:
  • Every layer of the organization failed: talent, coaching, management, and culture.
• Looking Forward:
  • Dallas needs to overhaul both personnel (especially on defense) and mentality, seeking toughness and edge in new acquisitions.

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For fans: This episode is a straight-shooting, no-excuses, sometimes biting autopsy of the season. You’ll hear honest frustration—a recurring theme of physical inferiority, self-inflicted wounds, and missed opportunities for growth. The hosts balance analysis of strategy with a clear-eyed indictment of softness and organizational slippage, making this essential listening for anyone wanting to understand how and why the Cowboys’ 2025 campaign fell apart, and what’s needed next.

Transcript

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Lowe's Nose.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sundays are for football, so tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, Select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products and more. Then once your to do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax and enjoy the game. Shop in store online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's official partner of the NFL. The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco CD Lamb.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

It's on. Jake Ferguson.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Pescock keeps it and he bangs it.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

In for the touchdown.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. Hey there Cowboys Nation. The Cowboys fall to The Los Angeles Chargers 34. Yeah, no good. 34 17. The final score from AT&T Stadium. Welcome in to Talking Cowboys. It is a holiday week so we're going to try our best to cheer you up.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

No, we're not.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're not going to try and cheer you up. We're going to just talk about what happened over the course of that football game. In Week 16, the Cowboys fall to 6, 8 and 1. This music is very condescending. Sending to what the tone should be for this show for Patrick no see Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah, stand back. Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. Welcome in to Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas and and the SWBC studios. Yeah, not the game that Cowboys certainly wanted, of course in between the time of our final show on say it with the chest Friday into this Monday. It ends up being an elimination for the Cowboys as well as the Eagles.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Darn.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It took down the commanders. It was a part of what we anticipated.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

However.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, it's now official and it became even more official whenever they lost later on. So there's a lot of, a lot of disappointment I think around the 2025 season when it comes to the Cowboys and the talent and how they were, they were how they played yesterday. But I'll start with you, Patrick. You were in the building your thoughts on how it went down against the Chargers.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Once again, the Cowboys are the grg, the get right game. That's how it goes. So we said it last week. Josh pointed it out as a contrary point to yours. Kyle, when you just throwing out the stats saying that the offensive line for the Los Angeles Chargers basically one of the worst in the league as far as allowing pressure on due to a.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Lot of injuries along the line.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, of course. And your counterpoint was that well, the Cowboys can't get after the, after the quarterback. So which one of these things is going to out bad? The other thing and I said on Friday I think the Cowboys lack of pass rush ability is going to make it a wash and I think that Justin Herbert is going to stay clean for a good bit of the game. Well, Justin Herbert was not sacked for the first time this entire season. Cowboys did not sack Justin Herbert a single time. He had his way back there. He was back there playing Madden basically. And from there, so the game went. Cowboys these last two weeks have figured out the inability to have a fast start offensively. They figured that out but now they're having slow finishes. Peanut butter, no jelly.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Ham.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Ham, no burger. It seems like that's the theme with this Cowboys team this season. Something goes right and then something else is going wrong to wash it out. And that's what happened again on yesterday. Shouts out to, you know, Dag Dyke tried to push through. George Pickens had a big game. CD Lamb crossed the thousand yard threshold for a fifth consecutive season despite having missed several games. So you know, there was some bright spots. Javante he did what he could. Ryan Flournoy, I'm waiting for an update on on him with the knee injury. Yeah, just kind of quick news and note Ryan Floy with a knee and the Marvin Overshone. The Marvin Overshone with a concussion. I don't expect either of them to play on Christmas Day, so just put that out there right now. But for the most part, I mean the defense was getting gashed as they normally have been those three games notwithstanding, coming out of the bye week. And it was a lot of the same old same old, which is a team comes in and whatever they're bad at, they suddenly become really good at.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I was told that having Matt Eberfluss up in the booth to call the game defensively would improve. I mean it was just an, an idea to improve. This is something that they came up with the brain trust that the Dallas Cowboys came up with over the last week. I did not see any indication of a change on defense. Obviously this looked to be like one of the worst performances that I've seen from the Dallas Cowboys defense. But yet again, like we were just talking about, the Dallas Cowboys defense just can't get right. That's their nickname this season. And another situation where the offense has to play a perfect game in order to kind of keep you in the conversation in the game, period.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The off he did in the first half, for the most part, it looked good.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And then an unfortunate holding call which was kind of iffy on my part, permitted Ryan Flournoy's second touchdown of the game.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

It was ticky tack, but it was the right call. I hate to admit I disagree. Patrick.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, he walked.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You can't hold the jersey and turn him. I mean, if you let that go a split second sooner, then you probably don't get the flag. And also if you don't hold him at all, it doesn't affect the play. If you look at the timing of.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The throw so well, and Isaiah said it in real time, he said Dak didn't necessarily help out there because he went into the pressure. Not that Dak knows. Yeah, but he went into the pressure and it allowed for Khalil Mac.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

It was ticky tack, but it was not a bad call.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I really don't want to. I mean, granted that they, the Chargers defense buckled up in the second half and were able to hold the Cowboys from doing anything offensively and had them in a lot of fourth down situations which Cowboys did not convert on. Obviously there's. There was just some looks there that the offense was not necessarily getting right, but more so than not, the fact that you weren't able to generate any pressure against that offensive line, the Dallas Cowboys, I mean, against the Chargers offensive line, it just, to me, it just is more of the same. And talked about him going up to the booth and how that might change things. A better look, a better view and being able to make better adjustments during the game. You simply didn't see it. It was just more of the same.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, their offense scored against our defense six of eight times.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Easily six scoring drives of eight drives of eight total possessions. Wow, that seems like a lot. Isaiah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, it's not a good percentage, but. Second half, the Cowboys, we know it, but the first half was good. Second half, the Cowboys. Possessions, punt. Turnover on downs, turnover on downs. Fumble.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That doesn't seem good either.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Ngb not good though. You couldn't do anything. Offensively, you had a good start. Offensively, you had a good start. Defensively, wasn't. Wasn't great at all. Obviously it was not all just Eberfluse. I know, I know, I know. He's getting torched right now and statistically for the last 15 games, it shows that he should be getting torched. But it's not just him. It's not just flutes. There were times where he got out, schemed. There was times where he Called man. And we got beat.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yep.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

All of what it is. So, I mean, I understand he's the representative and responsible for all those guys on that side of the ball, but guys still have a job to do, so I don't want him to be the only scapegoat. Guys need to be held accountable to not handling their assignments as well. So. Just bad, man.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Bad.

[Isaiah Stanback]

In terms of the running game, I don't know why we are just not committing to that portion. Is frustrated me over the last probably five games now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They just has not. They. Whatever reason, they just said, all right, Javante. Yeah, we know you were top five for a while, but we're going to throw this thing around.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And it wasn't like they weren't getting stopped on a run. They just stopped giving it to him.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

No.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So I don't know. It's frustrating. And I mentioned to Kyle and the rest of the crew, you're going to be frustrated when you have expectations that aren't met. And I didn't expect the Cowboys to win in this game. I just think that against larger phys, more physical teams, we just don't do well. So I did not have an expectation of a victory, but I expected a more competitive battle.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And yeah, Sean Hummer's not off the hook on this one either. They got off to a fast start, which was great. Unfortunately, you had like the holding penalty, which ended up negating what would have been Flournoy's second touchdown. So for the most part, first couple of offensive drives, holding penalty notwithstanding, those guys were cooking. Um, but then came it. It slowed down and in the second half, it was just like a few of those calls. Example being like 4th and inches. Why are you handing it off to Hunter Lipke in that situation? Kyle tweeted. And I jumped right on that tweet. You're like, might as well QB sneak it in. That might as well.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Might as well.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

As opposed to handing it back three or four yards to get three inches. I'll never understand that process. But then there was another particular drive where you had two errant passes from Dak Prescott, which, look, it was a miscommunication between him and the receiver. One went sailing way downfield down the right seam, and the other was. Yeah, I think it was.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Turpin stopped.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, there was a miscommunication there.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No miscommunication. Turban stopped.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

He just didn't run his route.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He just stopped running his route because Dak Prescott from the Again, not understanding. Not knowing. I mean, this is me just speculating.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Not knowing what the route that was called. But it looked as if he was responsible for taking the middle of the field open Terp. It happens at times where a receiver is running their route, and they're like, I can't get past this guy.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So they just throttle down.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's not throwing to me.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, he's not throwing it to me. Right. Because there's a guy right here. He's not throwing it to me. I'm gonna shut my route down right now. Dak was like, you're Kevante freaking Turpin.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Get past this guy.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So that what I perceive that was the miscommunication, like, hey, bro, why are you stopping? Like, you're one of the fastest cats in the league. Don't stop running.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah. That would track. Because in real time, it was such. Such a broken play that you would think that Dak was assuming this route will be ran and the player did the route, which is basically what you're saying. But you're saying it wasn't because you don't believe it was because Kevonte Turpin thought he was supposed to run and out. It was because Kevonte Turpin said, it's not coming to me, so I'm shutting down. Which is horrible. But, yeah. So the offense is not. Not excused from the loss at all. When you only get seven points, but fast start, slow finish. And the Cowboys defense just did what we felt the Cowboys defense was due, unfortunately.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, you're.

[Kyle Yeomans]

As the offense, you're not excused from 17 points, especially when all 17 come in the first and you didn't get in the second half.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And we talked about this numerous times on this show is this is the 2025 Dallas Cowboys. When we look back on this season and remember how this unfolded and what will stick out, it's the fact that the offense had to be perfect. And to expect an offense to be perfect in the national football league in 2025 is unrealistic. But they've had to be perfect, and they almost were in the first half. They scored on all three of their full possessions in the first half, except the only exception of the difference between the crazy fast start that the Chargers had and then the Cowboys offense had was the fact that they had a holding call and the field goal. That's the only difference in the entire first half, punch for punch. But you can't expect that to happen over four quarters. And when you're Talking about consistency, you're talking about complimentary football, which I know fans get tired of hearing, but it's so true.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's what good teams do.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's what good teams do. I mean, look at what happened last night. The Patriots, the Patriots, even when they were down, they had a special teams play, then followed by a defensive play. Then the offense picked it up and Stefan Diggs had 134 yards. There's a reason why they're 12 and 4. I mean, that's. That's a part of this. This game right now is you have to have all three phases. And the Cowboys, for lack of a better term, don't have two of them. They don't have two of those phases. Playing at a high level right now. Defense and special teams, I'll still contend Even with the 17 points on the board. I think the offense was fine except for the run game. I do agree with you there. And I think they went away and they fell off. And I think part of that is they felt pressure. Then they felt backed into a corner. And whenever they feel backed into the corner, the default for Brian Schottenheimer as a play caller is throw the pill, throw it around. And that's where I feel like yesterday came into fruition. It looked like a team that had nothing to play for. It looked like a team that had been eliminated from playoff contingent, which is something I did not expect. Even if you were eliminated going into that game as the Dallas Cowboys, I still expected to see fight. And you saw it in four and a half, in sporadic points, I think.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You saw for a half.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It may be for the half. I would contend that maybe from the offensive side for a half, but to.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Kind of contend or just to compliment what you're saying about a team that is more physical than you. The Dallas Cowboys sort of gave up in that aspect.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They wore them down.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They were worn down. I don't want to say they gave up, but they were worn down. How physical the Chargers were.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Well, it's. And you make a point, a good point, did look like, for the most part, a team that had nothing to play for, unfortunately. But what makes that even more disconcerting is they're in this position because they had the same energy in Detroit against the Lions when they had an opportunity to continue to apply pressure to the Philadelphia Eagles and really push this thing down to the wire. You showed up and basically laid down.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So against them against more physical things.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It literally, like. I hate to say that because I know it sounds terrible, but it has been Consistent. Not just this year. It's been consistent.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's our identity.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's. It really has been. Yeah, it really has been based upon the personnel that you have. When you play a team that's about that life. And they're bigger than you. Right. And they. And they're willing to go toe to toe in the box all day long, you struggle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. I want to. I want to do a little social experiment here off of that. Out of the losses for the Cowboys this year, was this a more physical football team than the Cowboys? Not necessarily in the game, but just think about the roster. Right? Eagles.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, for the most part, yes. The first game, the Bears.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes. This year, absolutely. Panthers.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

They did that day.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They were definitely that day. Broncos.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We didn't buckle up that game.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Broncos, absolutely.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely. The Broncos. The one I could probably contend would probably be the Cardinals. Like, they just aren't that good.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Snuck one.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They just kind of got you that day. Lions, Vikings.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They beat you off the line, though. The Cardinals did.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Lions, yeah. Yes. Vikings. Yes. Flores.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I think the final three games, you've been out physical by that football team. And it takes me back to. What year was that? 20, 22. When Dallas. Maybe 21. Going into 22. Dallas felt like they got punked by San Francisco in that first playoff game.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And they got out physical by San Francisco, Kyle Shanahan. And what did they do that off season? They said, we're going to revamp how tough we are up front. And their first round pick was Tyler Smith. And that was a. Check the box. You got that one right. So is that going to be the mantra this year? You've got some speed, you've got some skill, you've got some talent. You're going to have to retain a couple of guys that are in contract years, but for the most part, if you're going to attack something, you need to attack your physicality as a team, because you just don't have that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, you have so much finesse. You have the skill players that are in sight. I mean, you have a bowl of Lucky Charms without any milk to speak of. You know what I mean? To get a. Pour water in there. Like, it's just. It's flashy, but it's not. There's no depth. There's. There's nothing behind it.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I think the problem is, is that you. You don't have to. The. The physicality at every position. So you brought in Kenny Clark, super physical monster of a man. You go and trade for Quinn Williams, super physical monster of a man. So your defensive interior monster of men. Physical. Your edges. Nope. Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And this is.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's not even a knock to a guy like easy. Easy is more of a finesse guy. Like I said, they're trying to. Like Kyle said, they're trying to fit him as a DeMarcus Lawrence, but that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He'S not in their mind. And this is my thought, I think that they believe that Sam Williams is going to be that guy for them.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

They did think so. They did.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Maybe they thought at one point.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Thought. Thought.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They thought that way.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So because he has that. He has that mentality.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah. It just ends. Right. So defensive interior. Check and check. Super physical. Great. Net solved for now. In the future, your edges, not so much. Linebackers. Nope. You don't have physicality at the linebacker core at all cornerbacks? Nope. I'll say. Ready. Ready. Ready.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's a safety, though.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah. Ready.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Playing out of position.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, he's playing out of position, bro.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And then speaking of your safeties, you got Donald. He's physical, but he's always being asked to do whatever cover he's asked to do. What's not his strong point. So from a defensive side of the ball, the only physicality that you have that can out muscle an opposing team is your defensive interior. That's it. Your defensive line or defensive tackles, I should say, offensively speaking, you got to figure out your offensive line. You got to figure it out. You got Tyler Smith. Check that box.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Cool.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

There. Outside of Tyler Booker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. I like what we've.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You got two super physical interior linemen. We'll see if. If BB can take that next step. We'll see. But the two Tylers, Booker and Smith. Yes. Outside of that, you don't see that from Terence Steel on a consistent basis. Tyler guy needs to remain on the field. Nate Thomas and not having a Good showing. Cooper, B.B. you will see. But my point being they have too many spots where that we got dogs, horses that will punch you in the mouth. It's not enough of that at certain positions. And until you figure that out, you're going to keep getting off.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Do you think it's because of the culture that they're trying to create here? Explain the locker room culture. Oftentimes when coaches and organizations are trying to get a team, that is the best way of saying this. You need some goons, you need some guys. You need some guys that are like on the edge that you got to reel them in a little bit. Like maybe they don't necessarily always Kgs Maybe they don't always fall in line. Right. Like, every team needs those guys.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You got one at receiver, you want to get them.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, you got one at receiver. But I'm saying, like, so I wonder. This is not an indictment on their actual physical being, but the mentality of the players that they're acquiring. Maybe they need to get some more edgy players because at the end of the day, physicality, a lot of it is mentality, facts, absolute fact.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm going to end that segment there because I completely agree with you, and I think there's a lot of that going forward. There's a lot of blame being thrown around. It could go one way or the other. But I think everybody in the building has something to do with how this season at different points in time has come down to what it is now. And you're two games under.500. You're out of playoff picture entirely. Completely eliminated from contention with three games to go. There's a lot while you were going. I know, but you were out into your third game, gentlemen. So with all that being said, there's not just one person or one specific area that needs to have the blame. It's a. It's a organizational type of failure.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

In 2025, we all underachieved.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's exactly how it goes. All right, when we come back, I want to talk about the defensive side of the ball. You guys mentioned a couple different pieces there. Where do you start from what you saw yesterday? Because this is evaluation time for the Dallas Cowboys. Where do you start? Because there are multiple spots to try and upend going into the offseason. More talking Cowboys coming up after this.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

Earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official partner of the NFL.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's why we're here, providing the tools.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Expertise and John Deere equipment you have.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Relied on for generations to help you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Get the job done right.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

We're with you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's our promise to you.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Because no matter the project or the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Challenge you're facing, we're with you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're United Cowboys fans. We've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is now available at Texas Seven Eleven stores. And for a limited time, you can score two cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch. 200 milligrams of caffeine, veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood, 711 here in Texas, grab that two for six dollar black rifle energy deal and fuel up the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's coffee.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

How's it going? You see that Cowboys game?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh, I watched.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Been seeing some good things. Totally. They have some talent.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yup.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Some great talent.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody, by the way.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I'm Travis.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys. Go Cowboys. Make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America. The official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. At, at and t. We guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the vet.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Hey, yeah. I can't believe he ate the whole.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Thing of chicken wings.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And I can't believe we're staging a comeback. Touchdown.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yes, staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or.

[Kyle Yeomans]

More caused by a single incident impacting.

[Isaiah Stanback]

10 or more towers must be connected.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

To impacted tower at onset of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Catt.com guarantee for full details.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Back to Talking Cowboys. Back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company where your Cowboys geared to a Black Rifle coffee location. Get 10% off your entire order at Black Rifle Coffee. I don't know if they're even open on Christmas. I feel like they're probably not on Thursday. So you might only have. Yeah. Check their hours. You might only have one more shot to do that. Oh, at the end of the year.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't like those words.

[Kyle Yeomans]

One more opportunity on a Cowboys game day to go get 10% off your entire order. All right, back here on Talking Cowboys. I saw a stat yesterday that I think sums up kind of what we were talking about in the first segment there. Cowboys have a 4,000 yard passer.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yep.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Two 1,000 yard receivers, C.D. lamb and George Pickens.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And a 1,000 yard rusher in Javante Williams. And yet they were eliminated from playoff contention with three games to go. So all of that to be said.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Crazy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean, you've got to point to the defense and everybody knows this. Everybody's watched this. If you've even listened to a smidgen of talking Cowboys over the course of the season, you would know the defense has been abysmal at different times.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I thought he was going to do it.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You do it.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You thought to do it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You want me to.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Allow me to do it today, the defense.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So I'm not as good at it. I don't think. Where do you start? When we go into this off season, we just talked about physicality and I think that's. That's a number one trait that you need. But I'm thinking more position groups here. Do you start in the secondary? Do you start in the pass rush? You've already revamped the interior, so I think you're set moving forward. Unless. Do you want another D tackle? Isaiah?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Nope.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. All right, don't. So you got that out of the way now. He's good.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We got three. Got what you want? I got two. Monsters.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Just making sure.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yes. Sally's on the contract next year, too.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's good.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I haven't seen him recently.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But where do you start?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You? I'm always going to be built front to back. You have your defensive tackle position solved. Solve your defensive end. Okay. After you have to get a pass rush, you have no choice because without the pass rush.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. Just a question. If you're solving your defensive end, are you going to take a chance with one of your first round picks or are you going to attack free agency?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I would like to attack free agency. But first I want to see who's available.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Of course, yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And we can talk about there's one name that is going to be available.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, yeah. We can't say it and you can't.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Say, yeah, he's under contract this year.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And there was interest in him going into the trade deadline from this franchise.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And I would say even if you acquire that individual, you still attack it in the draft. You got two first round picks. So for me my two first round picks are going to be on the defensive side of the ball. One is going to be defensive and the other is going to be linebacker. That's how I feel about it. Again, I'm building front to back. Demarvi on over showing his back. He's he's your centerpiece for at the linebacker position. But you don't know if they're going to stick stick with Libra flu. If they do stick with EBA flu that's probably going to keep Marisley file still clamped. Right. What does that mean for Shemar James? He's going to be more unleashed. Does he take the step forward? Things like that. So the only player in the linebacker you that I'm confident with going forward and you still have to put an asterisk on that because he has to remain available which is the Marvin over shown. So I'm not overlooking linebacker. And I think Kyle, you pose this question of a few weeks ago, two or three weeks ago saying which positions do we want to address in the draft with the two first round picks.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, that was after the mini buy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Defensive end and linebacker. Those are my two first round picks regardless of what I do in free agency. But also go get something in free agency.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Where are you getting a corner from?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

So no, no, no, no. I get what he's saying because the first thing popped in my mind, first thing popped in my mind was okay, well you need a corner. Yeah. But you know, it helps corner owners cover.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't disagree however is is sacks.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

And agree qb's running for them.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Who are your starting quarters next year?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Oh no, you got to figure that out. I'm not saying you have an answer.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You don't even have one person.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You don't have an answer there.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Jerome Bland's gonna be healthy. Trayvon Diggs most likely won't be here. Right.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

You don't.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Who's your starters?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Well, they're going to look at some reverse.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Not like we haven't physically, but he.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Hasn'T had a full off season and.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I'm just going off of what I can see right now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You're right.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I know.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Don't. I don't have confidence in mind that he's going to be a starter yet.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

But you have to.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I hope that he gets help. He gets back to what he was.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but the answer to your question has to also be answered through the purview of upstairs. So it's, it's less about. Well, what would no see do? Okay, I know what no C would do, but I'm telling you that they're going to look at it as Sone Revel is a starter.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Ron Black. Duron Bland is going to be back healthy. He is. Black is going to be back healthy. And then you kind of go from there. So you're not wrong. It. I shouldn't even have to say it, but I'll say it anyway. You are in dire straits at cornerback, but you're also in dire straits.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You could argue every position aside from.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Defensive tires, but if you, if you build backwards to forward, you're still not pressuring the, the quarterback. You're still not getting linebackers who can have run fit. Correct run fit. So you're giving up yards on the ground as well. So then it's like yeah, the, the corners are covering but the windows are expanded now they have to help in run support.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't disagree with you. But then I go from your point. Did I say what positions are harder to acquire?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Corner.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Corner. So like.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But, but then again I, I wouldn't be sold on a first round linebacker because I don't know, I don't know that I trust this team's evaluation of linebackers in the draft. And I think granted you, you got over shown. Granted you have over shown. But I mean still, even when he has been out there over the last few years healthy, it hasn't been so excellent.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Say this counterpoint to that is they actually scout linebackers really well and on day one and like day two, but they have a, they're snake bitten. Right. So it's the availability issue. So Leighton Vanderish was a hit coming right out. Right. Sean Lee was a hit for a good bit of his career, but injury. So they can hit on an off ball linebacker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They drafted Micah Parsons, Mike Parsons.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

So we're into Marvion over showing.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So as far as.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Right. And then the Mario and Overshone store as far as scouting the ability of an off ball linebacker, they're actually really damn good at that. But they tend to be snake Bitten and getting these extremely talented linebackers that then have availability issues.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But isn't that part of evaluation? I think making sure only these players are.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You can't know.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

The only one that was predictable, I hate to say it that way, but the only one that had the red flags that were inexcusable was lve and Jalen Smith. Jalen Smith. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, they did get him back on the field, but yeah. So for the most part. And I, I won't excuse that because you know, lve had neck issues coming out of Boise State. You were the, you know, the, the medical team that handled injuries coming in. Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So those two had those two issues coming in. And Damone Clark had issues coming in.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Over shown had some injury flags at Texas too.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Did he?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

To the extent that you would think.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Because you can't predict. But he, he definitely had some stuff.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

His is just a team is more. And I look at it from this perspective. If I don't, if I can't grab it in the draft, can I grab it in free agency or can I trade for it? Right. Teams are less willing to trade really good corners.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You're just not getting rid of them. Right. I, I think when you.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And but if you are, you're paying a really high price for those.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Is Eagles quarterback, offensive tackle, defensive end, freaking corner.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Look at the price that the Colts paid for Sauce Gardner.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean not that Dallas would do anything like that to go get a corner, but just look at the price tag because even a step below that is still going to cost you.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I think if you're going to draft a linebacker, it's got to be a dude that you expect to be two names. Part of your team for 10 years.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Two names.

[Kyle Yeomans]

One of them Jacob Rodriguez at Texas Tech.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Three names.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Okay. So you got, you got one. Sonny. Okay. Styles one. And C.J. allen is the other. Those are three guys that I would use a first round pick on. And I think because you have two first round picks and I've seen you have success in hell. Cornerback. All right, let's talk about cornerback before the latest. Trayvon, let's not have recency bias. So we know everything's going on with Trayvon Diggs. He's not been playing up to the level. Injury, etc. Etc. But. But isn't he a second round pick? So I say that to say you would like to believe that you could find all these are lottery picks. You never know. But if you Found Trayvon Diggs in the second round, then you can find another Trayvon Diggs.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You don't have a second round pick.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's right, you don't.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's what I'm saying. You don't have any room to operate when it comes to your first two round picks. That's great. I love the fact that they have for two first round picks but you don't have a second.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But they have to hit and you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Got, you got to hit both of them.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Both of them have to be. Both have to be. Day one starters impact your team.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I'm glad you reminded me. We don't have a second round pick. So get a second round pick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

How would you do it?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Package something. You're going to get some.

[Isaiah Stanback]

What does it look like right now in terms of where we.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, you're going to, you're going to get some compex that you can package. You take those and maybe you throw in something from 27.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Your comp picks aren't going to get you back in.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

No, no.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Package.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Package.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Who are you packaging?

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Who? I didn't say who.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You said who.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm just.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Oh, who are you thinking about?

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's what it's going to take. You don't have the draft capital to get back. No, you can draft, you can go back. If you wanted to trade your first round, one of your two first rounds to go back.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Pull from the future is what I'm saying. Pull from the future.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right now the Cowboys are sitting at 13th overall with their pick. And then Green Bay with their most recent loss, they are projected to lose Chicago in the wild. Wild card round. They would be 2113 and 2113. And projection, projection. Because Green Bay is going to make the playoffs more than likely. And if they make the playoffs, where they end up is going to determine how you're.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Man, I'm. I would not be upset at one of those picks being a cornerback. Let me be clear. I would not be upset at it. But if you ask me to choose, I need a pass rush, especially somebody opposite as Raku.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You also don't have a third round pick, by the way. I forgot to say.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, no day, two picks, period.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's good.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's gonna be a long day for.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Us in this studio unless you start pulling from 27 to 28.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Maybe.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

But I need somebody to compliment as Raku so that you can take Ezra out of that DeMarcus Lawrence fit and get him back to a Demarcus where. And I need, I need linebacker core solved. And then, you know, look at the cornerbacks. But I just, I can't build front to back.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I can't.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I mean, I'll back to front. I can't build front to back. My brain just doesn't, my football brain doesn't work that way.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But I mean, all of that being said, what we've kind of speculated about too, is that you may have one of those picks go to another, yet another offensive lineman maybe.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, we talked about that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Let's talk about that when we come back. I want to go back to the offensive side because of course, they are not without blame in the 3,417 loss to the Los Angeles Chargers. What went wrong on the offensive side and why was it the offensive line? When we come back with more talking Cowboys right after this. Hi, this is Gronk from Dudes on Dudes. I'm here to tell you about protecting your end zone whip wet extra large flushable dude Wipes. Unlike dry wiping with toilet paper, dude wipes clear instead of smear wetter cleans better. Goodbye dingleberries. Goodbye itch and irritation. Plus, if you take Gronk sized Grumpies or as I like to call them, Gronkies Baby wipes won't do. You need extra big Dude Wipes to handle the job. So don't fumble the ball with toilet paper. Stop being an A hole to your B hole and start using Dude Wipes. Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes Best Clean Pants down Lowe's nose. Sundays are for football, so tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products and more. Then once your to do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax and enjoy the game. Shop in store online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Partner of the NFL at AT T.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

We guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the vet.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Hey, yeah, I can't believe he ate.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The whole thing of chicken wings.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And I can't believe we're staging a comeback.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Touched? Yes.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day's service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or.

[Kyle Yeomans]

More caused by a single incident impacting.

[Isaiah Stanback]

10 or more towers must be connected.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

To impacted tower at onset of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Catt.com guarantee for full details, it's the.

[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Josh Rodriguez]

How about them cowboys? You have that undeniable passion that's the heart of Cowboys nation. And if you like to drink Dr. Pepper, you love the unique blend of its 23 flavors together. Your one of a kind fandom paired with the one of a kind taste of a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper is the game day lineup that can't be beat. Better yet, gather Your Cowboys and Dr. Pepper fan friends to watch the next game and crack open a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper for everyone. The wins will be even tastier. It's a pepper thing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Cowboys fans, we've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is now available at Texas 711 stores. And for a limited time, you can score cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch, 200 milligrams of caffeine, veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood 711 here in Texas, grab that two for $6 Black Rifle Energy deal and fuel up the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's coffee. Back to talking cowboys.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Foreign.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Back here on Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee company. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign, the official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Back with Patrick Nosie Walker, Josh Rodriguez. Hi, Isaiah Stambach, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. There's a lot of craziness in the chat today. I'm just kind of monitoring.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Just kind of don't do it, Kyle.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Hooray.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, no, no, it's fine. I think it's fine. And everybody's entitled to their own opinion. But I did see this really good question and it does play into what was going to go into this break. So I want to give credit where credit is due. Dalton asked, he said, do you believe Brian Schottenheimer has evolved as a play caller as the season has gone on? Do you feel like he's evolved in his play calling? Because like we said, going into the Break. Gotta talk about the offense. We'll get to the offensive line in a minute. But I just saw that question. I think it's too good to pass up.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I don't think he's evolved as a play caller. I think he is a really good coach. I think he's a good leader. But for me, time and time again, you've been in situations we just talked about at the top of the show where he's gotten away from the running game, which was kind of his MO from his coaching days previous to the Dallas Cowboys and then including last year, even though, you know, he said he was butting heads with McCarthy as far as running the ball. Yeah, but you've seen it time and time again where they've kind of leaned back on the, the, the run game, which is unfortunate because the run game looks so good at times. There's just not a lot of balance there. And I've been very critical of red zone situations where he just leans on the passing game a little too much. And it just basically is, you know, it's not hard for the, the opposing defense to identify what Dallas is going to do in the red zone. If we know what they're going to do in the red zone, it's gonna be a play action pass and it's gonna, you know, like, you just know. Yeah, it's gonna be a bootleg. You know exactly what he's gonna do. I feel like there's not a lot of, I don't want to say lack of creativity. I don't think he's been put in situations enough to where he can get in a groove offensively.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I have a theory. First of all, let me say this. Shouts out to my niece, dm. She is watching. The kids are out of school right now, so the kids, my nieces and nephews, they don't often get to watch. Talking Cowboys. How cool just told me that my niece DM is back in Atlanta watching the show. So Shouts out absolutely a town. Now that's my patty cake. I love my patty cake. But my theory is, follow the chronology here. Okay. The Cowboys offense was high powered for several weeks. Yes. It was at a certain point when the defense, when they realized that the defense was just abysmal. One of the. Or the worst in the league.

[Kyle Yeomans]

League, say trash.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

That's when Brian Schottenheimer began spending more time with the defensive coordinator in meetings. Right. My theory is, and, and from that point forward, the offense looked a bit disjointed.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Over what it was weeks prior. My Working theory is that once the offensive coordinator who also wears the hat of head coach had to then become the principle to what was going on in the back of the class. It took away from what happened with the offensive side of the ball. I say that to say I wonder and it'll be something that we never have an answer.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He was torn between being a head coach and office coordinator.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I wonder if him be being forced to be the head coach as far as checking in constantly and having these extra meetings with their defensive coordinator to get that side of the ball correct if it cost the explosiveness on the offensive side of the ball. So I agree, I don't think he evolved as a play caller, but I personally, I don't think he evolved as a play caller because he had to constantly keep going into the defensive coordinator's classroom and standing there. We all remember we've all been in class before and we've had some disruptive classes. Sometimes we've been the culprit of said disruptive class. And then you have like the vice.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Principal or the principal, don't mind me.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, just come and stand at the door and just monitor.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, while the unannounced but wanting to.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Show presence and while they're act like.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I'm not here and while they're showing presence, that's taking away time from something else that they could and should be doing. Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But it's the response working theory.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

It is.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's what happens when you're a head coach.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

So here's. Here's the thing though, right? If you have a defensive coordinator that you can wholly trust to handle everything and your defense is playing as it should be playing, you don't need to go in that room. You can continue to focus on the offensive side of the ball. That's all I'm saying.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Boy, you're the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. You're overseeing all things.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yep.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Maybe that's just a part of the gig.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

So, you know, it is.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's a luxury, but it's a.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

It's a part of the conversation that needs to be had on if you're going to move on from that Eber flu. Because if it's taking away from the evolution of the offense and now you now it's a double whammy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Two things there. One, as a head coach, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, Isaiah, if you're a head coach, you got to oversee everybody, which is why it's important to have solid coordinator hires. One of them has already been talked about in Matt Eberflus. At what point? I don't think you're talking about job security or anything with Clayton Adams, but one thing that he was brought in to do was to revamp your offensive line. That hasn't necessarily played to fruition, mostly because of help or whatever you want to chalk it up to. At some point as the head coach, you need to have confidence and trust in your guys, in Clayton Adams, Matt Eberfluss, Nick Sorensen, and it doesn't feel like there's that cohesion that you anticipated going in.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I agree. I would say this real quickly. I'm going to talk about this real quick. Someone in chat said me saying stating the obvious of him spending time on the defensive side of the ball is an excuse. No, it's not. If you're supposed to be cooking dinner dinner and the kids are acting up in the background and you constantly have to go checking on the kids, if that causes you to accidentally burn dinner, it's not an excuse, it's a reason. There's a difference between an excuse and a reason. That's all I'm saying.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Your thoughts?

[Isaiah Stanback]

So we had this discussion when we're talking about potential head coaches and I personally, I am not necessarily the biggest fan of coaches that are in charge of the offense or the defensive defense. I come from the cloth where I believe that they should be fully aware and knowledgeable and maybe even capable of calling plays on either or side. But I don't think that they should be calling plays on that side. Reason this being an example as to why, because some of the more successful teams that I've personally been on, those coaches were leaders of men. That was their primary job. The head coach was the leader of men capable of calling plays but have somebody in position to call to plays. Therefore, I can go to the offensive meeting rooms, I can go to the special teams meeting room, I can go to the defensive meeting rooms and I can, I can, I can. I could sit back and I could look, I can, I can observe and I can take notes and I could be aware of the discussions that are taking place so I don't have to go off of hearsay. When I'm in a position where I am in charge of one unit, I have to now pull double duty and I cannot fully be invested in anything that's outside of the fact that I have to be responsible for calling plays. I don't know what you're talking about on the defensive side, Kyle, because I'm going off of what you're Telling me yeah. Or I'm going off what the players are communicating to me. I don't truly.

[Kyle Yeomans]

As many meetings and as many communications as you can have from one person to the next among the entire staff and it's still not going to be the same as you seeing it yourself.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Unless. Unless you have a defensive coordinator that you can trust wholeheartedly.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Agreed.

[Josh Rodriguez]

100% with 100% certain.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Which is a luxury.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Exactly.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Which is a luxury. It's not an expectation. It's a luxury.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Exactly.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Right. So, I mean, again, it is what it is. Right. Shotti calls the plays offensively and he's the head coach. So yes, he got pulled away from. I don't want to say he got pulled away from. He had the responsibility and it was necessary for him to start overseeing what was going on in those defensive meeting rooms because of the lack of productivity. Now, did it pull him away? Yeah, but that's what happens. There's only so much of a piece of a pie. Right. You can't just have a whole pie on offense when you got somebody over here that needs to eat too.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So I have to go spend some time over here and that's going to take away from that.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Exactly.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But that doesn't to mean that still is not an excuse as to why this offense didn't the office still stay the course. Right. They put up numbers. Let's not, let's not act like this. We're disappointed.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We just talked about it.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

I was in 1,000 guys. Yes.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Let's not, let's not act like these guys didn't do amazing things with Shotty, even splitting duties.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Their fault is that they weren't perfect the entire season.

[Isaiah Stanback]

There's certain things that I'm sure that he's going to go back and evaluate and want to criticize and change about his play calling the red zone, running the ball, the commitment to running the ball. You know, I'm, I'm, I am almost certain that he took. It takes it as a personal challenge that for two to three weeks George Pickens went away because of the double team. Well, whose responsibility is that? That's coach's responsibility. Don't allow him to be in a position where he can get double team. So that's a challenge. Right. And I believe that coach Shotty is of the mindset where he's going to go back, be analytical about it, watch his film, like, dang, I have to be better here to make sure that my guys can't get double teamed.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So the question was at the beginning of the segment, do you feel like he's evolved as a play caller?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Evolution? No. I think that he became more predictable as the year went on. For what reason? I don't know. But again, I don't, I don't foresee him going back to back years with that same issue. Yeah, I, I, I don't, I think he's that type of coach where he will go back and be like, ah, I have to be better here because it's not the players. George didn't fall. He didn't start dropping balls.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

CDC dropped balls earlier on and he figured it out. Right. Javante Williams didn't start fumbling all of a sudden.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It was just we didn't commit to the run and I allowed my guys to be double teamed.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And we didn't cover it on four down.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We, we've already talked about what was that?

[Josh Rodriguez]

What's your thought on that? Did he evolve as a play caller?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, but I also don't know if it was entirely on him. We just talked about the way that the defense hindered some of that growth and how that happened. And then the offensive line too. There were times where I feel like Shotty's play calling was conservative to protect himself from the offensive line not playing well. And there were times where you had to make adjustments. They were able to grip it and rip it early in the season because you were confident that, that the five guys up front were going to block for Dak Prescott long enough to where they could have a play develop and they could have the, the scheme start playing into it. So no, I, I don't think he did about or evolve. But I also think there were outside factors in this whole thing that contributed to that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But he was still dominant. Let's not, let's not just because we, Evolution means that you're right. The question was he was still dominant.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes.

[Isaiah Stanback]

As a play caller. Let's give him still one of the.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Best offenses in football.

[Isaiah Stanback]

One of the best offenses in football. But you can't have the disparity from being one of the best offenses in arguably the best, the worst defense.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That just means you're mid.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, that's where they are. Two games under.500 at this point. Appreciate you joining us. We will be back tomorrow, our final show of the week. It is a holiday week. It's one of those weird ones where we're going to have a say it with Chess Tuesday tomorrow. We're going to have some fun in this SWBC studio tomorrow.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Patrick.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, see Walker, Josh Rodriguez, maybe, if that's what you're into. Isaiah, stand back. Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long. We'll see you tomorrow with more talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

A little escape? No.

[Isaiah Stanback]

A delicious bowl of grapes?

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[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

Sorry, no.

[Isaiah Stanback]

A burrito bowl? Happily, yes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you there. That get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now.

[Patrick Nosie Walker]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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