Talkin’ Cowboys: Serve the Defense First?

Summary

Talkin' Cowboys: Serve the Defense First?

Episode Date: December 30, 2025
Hosts: Kyle Yeomans, Isaiah Stanback, Patrick “No C” Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Producer Chris Beam
Location: The Star in Frisco, TX

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Talkin’ Cowboys dives deep into the state of the Dallas Cowboys’ defense as the 2025 regular season winds down. The crew debates whether to prioritize upgrading the defensive roster or focus on a coaching overhaul, discusses offseason roster challenges, and takes live calls from Cowboys fans with pointed questions about free agency, identity, and the ever-shrinking Super Bowl window. Key topics include the future of Jadeveon Clowney, the merits of building through free agency vs. the draft, and what sort of defensive coordinator the team needs moving forward.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Defense and Recent Performance

• "Get-right" Game Analysis (05:24–07:45)
  • The Cowboys’ recent game vs. the Commanders was described as a “get right” opportunity for the defense. However, Kyle and Patrick note miscommunications and lapses, particularly with coaching rotations:

    “It just looks like [the defense] can't figure itself out... there was ‘confusion’ on the side of the coaching staff...week 17 and there's still miscommunication.” – Kyle Yeomans (06:30)

  • Some “bright spots,” like Jadeveon Clowney, are singled out as foundational pieces.

2. Jadeveon Clowney’s Future and Defensive Line Outlook

• Clowney’s Contributions and Contract Patterns (07:45–12:10)
  • Debate on whether Clowney has overachieved, matched expectations, or if his up-and-down career pattern is a concern. Chris points out:

    “Every year or every other year in his career has been productive, and then he disappears... very contingent on what the contract situation is.” – Chris Beam (08:06)

  • Isaiah argues Clowney is exactly the “big body, versatile” DE type needed for any scheme.
• Need for More Proven, System-Agnostic Players
  • Dalvin Clark and Quinnen Williams cited as examples of "scheme-proof" impact players.
  • The group agrees the team tried to make personnel fit Eberflus’ scheme.

3. Roster Building: Free Agency vs. Draft

• Striking Out in the Draft (23:18–25:03)
  • Chris lists recent draft picks (2022–2025) and highlights a lack of contributions, especially on defense:

    “That's three or four drafts where you have struck out on guys and you're still waiting on 2025…You can't keep striking out on the defensive side of the ball in the draft.” – Chris Beam (24:53)

• Argument for Free Agency Prioritization (39:12–41:34)
  • Given the “shrinking window,” Kyle strongly advocates for bolstering the defense through proven free agents:

    “You need more proven guys than developmental guys.” – Kyle Yeomans (41:31)

  • Isaiah stresses the importance of acquiring “mental dogs” and building a defense with an identity.

4. Salary Cap, Pie Metaphor, and Roster Decisions

• Salary Cap Constraints and Prioritization (16:21–18:48)
  • The notorious “pie” gets discussed:

    “You’re going to be paying five people probably 70% of your salary cap.” – Isaiah Stanback (16:44)

  • Hard choices loom—talent like George Pickens, Javonte Williams, and Clowney vs. possible progress stoppers (i.e., role players hindering development).
• Jerry Jones’ Comments & Coaching Question Marks (17:45–19:19)
  • Jerry’s notion of “progress stoppers” and ambiguity around Matt Eberflus’ future:

    “It sounds like either Jerry Jones is going to keep his continuity with Matt Eberflus or he’s going to clean house. There’s no in-between.” – Kyle Yeomans (17:45)

5. Defensive Identity (or Lack Thereof)

• What Is This Defense’s Identity? (41:49–42:56)
  • Multiple hosts agree:

    “Every dominant defense has an identity. This is one of the first years…where you didn’t feel as if there was an identity.” – Isaiah Stanback (41:53)

  • Prior years under Dan Quinn or Mike Zimmer had known traits (e.g., takeaways, double A-gap blitzes), but 2025’s unit lacks a signature style.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Jadeveon Clowney’s Contract Year Rollercoaster

• “He’s literally there right now... Five and a half sacks. Who knows what he gets this week... it’s just been marginal. Like, it’s a marginal overachievement, but it is a slight overachieve.” – Chris Beam (11:42)

On Personnel vs. Scheme—Which Comes First?

• “If some say it…is it a scheme problem first or is it a personnel problem?... The egg came first, and that is the personnel.” – Isaiah Stanback & Chris Beam (21:24–21:32)

Salary Cap and Pie Metaphor

• “There’s already not enough pie going around. Most of it’s on the offensive side of the football team… you’re going to be paying five people probably 70% of your salary cap.” – Isaiah Stanback (16:42–16:44)

On Defensive Identity

• “You need some mental dogs. Like, especially on the defensive side of the ball, there’s a mentality that goes along… every interior, every dominant defense has an identity.” – Isaiah Stanback (41:33–41:53)

On the Window For Super Bowl Contention

• “When you look at the Cowboys and you have a shrinking window… you have Dak Prescott still at a high level, but he’s in his early 30s… and you have [the] owner and GM becoming very aware of his own mortality.” – Kyle Yeomans (41:24)

Classic Banter and Tone

• The crew’s friendly razzing and candid, light-hearted style persists throughout (“He’s a big personality… I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro two years ago. I have no problem climbing mountains…” – Isaiah on his fondness for Rex Ryan as DC, 49:04–49:08).

---

Fan Calls: Questions and Key Responses

[29:21] Mike in New York:

• Wants to see Dallas target defensive free agents; skeptical that a new DC (e.g., Brian Flores) alone will fix things.
• Chris: Reminds fans to beware offseason rumors and clarifies the show can’t suggest tampering with contracted coaches (30:36–31:13).

[31:46] Mike in Kentucky:

• Shouts out the show’s positivity and community.

[32:58] Hoodie Kush:

• Thinks Schottenheimer is taking bullets for the defensive coordinator; lists potential DC candidates (excluding under-contract options).
• Kyle: “Oh, absolutely… he’s taken several bullets for the defensive coaching staff.” (34:26)

[37:10] Jalen in Shreveport:

• Asks if the Cowboys should use free agency to fill defensive holes and draft best player available (BPA).
• Panel consensus: With the window closing, lean heavily on proven free agents and use the draft for BPA rather than need (39:12–41:34).

[47:31] Jamie in Edinburg, TX:

• Asks about the ideal type of defensive coordinator and whether the group would prefer a front-to-back or back-to-front defense.
• Isaiah: Advocates for an “aggressive” DC, specifically name-dropping Rex Ryan for his scheme flexibility and intensity, while also noting his long absence from coaching and fiery personality (49:08–51:43).
• Patrick: Notes that modern offenses have evolved and it's crucial a new DC can relate to today’s players (54:06–54:56).

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:24 – Cowboys-Commanders game recap; defensive miscommunication
• 07:45 – Jadeveon Clowney’s contributions and contract-year debates
• 12:03 – What makes Clowney the right scheme fit?
• 16:21 – How does the salary cap “pie” force tough roster choices?
• 17:45 – Jerry Jones’ “progress stoppers” comments
• 23:18 – Cowboys defensive draft misses, 2022–2025 classes
• 29:18 – Fan phone lines: free agency vs. draft
• 39:12 – Should Dallas focus on free agency to fix defense?
• 41:49 – The search for a defensive identity
• 47:31 – What kind of defensive coordinator should Dallas pursue?
• 49:08 – In-depth: Rex Ryan as candidate; aggressive, confusing schemes
• 54:56 – Would a decade-long TV/media break disqualify Rex Ryan?

---

Summary Table: Defense Solutions Proposed

| Problem Area | Crew’s Solution/Opinion | |--------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Defensive Identity | Acquire “mental dogs,” prioritize attitude and toughness | | Defensive Line | Retain Jadeveon Clowney; target other “scheme-proof” veterans | | Draft Struggles | Shift more focus to free agency, draft BPA rather than reach for need | | Coaching | Aggressive, flexible DC; consider but scrutinize “old school” candidates | | Salary Cap | Prioritize offense, accept some defensive role player turnover | | Window to Win | Leverage current core, “go for it” with proven vets now |

---

Final Takeaway

The Cowboys face tough decisions after a season of defensive underperformance. The Talkin’ Cowboys crew urges prioritizing free agent acquisitions, targeting a defensive coordinator who blends aggression with adaptability, and finding a much-needed identity for the defense—before the team’s Super Bowl window closes any further.

---

Listen to the full episode for all fan questions, laughs, and deep-dive debate!

Transcript

[Kyle Yeomans]

This is Julian Edelman from Games with Names. As a fellow dude, do you ever get that not so fresh feeling in your butt? That's because you're probably using the dry stuff to wipe wet. Extra large flushable dude wipes get what toilet paper leaves behind in your behind. You wouldn't clean the tail end of your truck with dry paper towels. So why would you wipe with dry toilet paper? Wetter just cleans better. There are no more dingleberries, no more itch and irritation.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Just a deep down the seam.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Confident clean so don't fumble the ball with toilet paper. Stop being an a hole to your B hole. Drop the toilet paper.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Available on Amazon and major retailers nationwide. Dude wipes best clean pants down.

[Chris Beam]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco cd Lamb.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's on.

[Caller]

Jake Ferguson touchdown.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Keeps it and he bangs it in for the touchdown.

[Chris Beam]

And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanbach, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. It's a talking Tuesday edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle coffee company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in everybody. We've got the whole cast and crew ready for you to rock today with Patrick no see Walker back in the building. Josh Rodriguez, Alex, Isaiah, stand back with Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. So glad you're with us. You might want to get on the phone line right now. Call me now, 888-855-2297 because ladies and gentlemen of talking Cowboys nation are family out there.

[Isaiah Stanback]

What are we doing?

[Chris Beam]

We're taking your phone calls.

[Isaiah Stanback]

How long, Kyle?

[Chris Beam]

This is the last show that we're going to take your phone calls in the regular season.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So it has to be worth it.

[Chris Beam]

So it's got to be worth it. It's a talking Tuesday.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's.

[Chris Beam]

Of the 2025 calendar and football season.

[Patrick No See Walker]

The best dressed talk Cowboys podcast on Dallas cowboys dot com.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Look at.

[Chris Beam]

I mean come on.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You know what? I'm guess what, Josh, I'm going to put it out here. The 12th caller.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Huh?

[Isaiah Stanback]

The 12th call. We're going to get the 12. The 12th caller gets that jacket right there from no, see right here.

[Chris Beam]

I'm down for that. All right, let's do it.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's it. Let's do it. You get that jacket right there.

[Chris Beam]

Nobody can hear you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Listen. Much like much like a fiber filled brick, this contract is non binding. It's a musil, right? It's very metamucil contract.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That is not.

[Caller]

Oh man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He said it, I didn't say it. Can't hold me.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Patrick, we missed you yesterday, man.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, bro.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Missed you guys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We had that other guy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. Oh brother.

[Chris Beam]

We forgot to do the drop like with him on the show.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Oh, you.

[Chris Beam]

I know.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We missed the opportunity.

[Chris Beam]

Missed the opportunity.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Missed. You guys had a little bit of a family emergency. My. My 14 year old son, he broke his leg.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. Just boy being a boy. Just boy being a boy. We've all been there.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No growth plates, right?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, no, no. He went to the ortho on. On yesterday and turns out he does not need to have surgery. That's nice. They simply cast him up. Yeah. They made sure the bone was reset correctly. Cast him up and follow up in four weeks.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It will soon, buddy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Chris Beam]

You know how tough that is as like a 12 year old kid to be like, yeah, I broke my leg. Oh, okay. 14 year old kid to say like, yeah, I broke my leg. Like, sorry. Yeah, yeah. You guys just got to deal with your like wimpy little things over there and I'm just going to come back stronger than this.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But how awful to do it in the winter break too. You know what I mean?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like he's not in school but reappear with the cast. Yeah, but see, now they have it. I didn't know this was a thing they had.

[Chris Beam]

He's not going to miss summer. Like he's not going to be, you know, like he's, he's not going to be able to run around outside and.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That kind of thing. They make it difficult to kind of sign the cast nowadays though because back in the day they gave us the tan, the beige, the white cast. Their casts are black now.

[Chris Beam]

Silver Sharpies, gold Sharpies.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, but no, then that's giving Raiders and we don't.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's true.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're not doing that. So. Yeah, black and gold too. Xavier, dad is extremely proud of you. I know exactly how much pain you were in when that happened because that has broken bones before. I know that was level 15 pain on the level 10 scale, but he handled it like an absolute champ. And I mean he's also. He's in karate and jiu jitsu and has been for years. So he.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And you're his dad.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't hurt. Yeah, but seriously, I mean he knows how to channel. He knows how to.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Pun intended.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, yeah. Facts. He knows how to manage his pain and he knows the mental part of it. So shouts out to Xavier, love your big boy and heal up. Dad to talk to you later today.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Very cool.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Love that man.

[Chris Beam]

Well, glad to have you back. Tommy did a great job yesterday. I do want to get your thoughts on the Cowboys and Commanders before we get into news and notes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, grg, what's that? Get right.

[Chris Beam]

Good. Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The defense was a get right game. Cowboys didn't play Jayden Daniels, they didn't play Marcus Mariota, they played Josh Johnson. And Josh Johnson put up the most points that he has in years.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Running backs out there looking like Adrian Peterson, you know, and I'm not just talking about Debo. I will say Corey Crosky, Merritt, yeah, Crosby Merritt looks like Adrian Peterson. I even tweeted that day, I was like, is that Crosby Merritt or is that AP or ad? If you know all day I, I can respect Debo Samuel getting his lick back after Javante Williams put one of their defenders through the planet. That's fair. I love me some good football, some payback football, but the defense, for the most part, it, it just looks like it can't figure itself out. And then after the fact, you, you ask questions about, well, why was Logan Wilson receiving zero defensive snaps and then the, the answer was there was quote, unquote, confusion on the, on the side of the coaching staff. The defensive side of the coaching staff. As far as rotational. So it's week 17 and there's still miscommunication, not simply between players on the field.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Maybe because he's in a booth.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But was it, was it much better communication wise when he was on the, on sideline? No, just, I mean, that's another takeaway for me. You, you know, now you have better. Now you have the, the revelation that they're continuing to have coaching issues on the defensive side of the ball and that, you know, translates onto the field. So there were a couple of bright spots. Davion Clowney being the biggest bright spot for me.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know, I can't stand on that table enough as far as resigning that guy. Resign him. Resign him. Jadevian Clowney. He wants to be here. He also said he wants to participate in some training camp. Not for. It's seldom that. You Hear a mercenary, 12 year, 12 year mercenary say that he wants to be in somebody's training camp, he wants to be in someone's full off season program so that, so that he won't have as much rust as he did starting. He wants to hit the ground full.

[Isaiah Stanback]

17 plus.

[Kyle Yeomans]

17 plus at the highest level. Not. Not okay for the first seven. I like that. And then elite for the remaining 10. I like those words.

[Chris Beam]

I did look up something yesterday after the show that has me slightly concerned with.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh, come on, Kyle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Way to be a dead.

[Chris Beam]

I'm down. Debbie Downer.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Well, it's.

[Chris Beam]

It's because we're supposed to speak the truth here.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Are you talking about the Cowboys having never the wor that the most points given up in Cowboys history?

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's not the one you were talking about?

[Chris Beam]

No, that's not what it was. It's the fact that Jadavian Clowney every year, every other year in his career has been productive and then he disappears. Then he's productive and then he disappears.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Light switch.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. And it's very back and forth and it's very contingent on what the contract situation is, Kyle.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But he didn't have a full season, so he would be in the first.

[Chris Beam]

So maybe it is.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Maybe we're okay. Okay.

[Chris Beam]

Maybe since it's halfway, we're all right. But I mean, you look, you look back at it. So let's go after the Pro bowl years. So he had three straight Pro bowl years where he was fantastic from 2016 to 2018. After that he goes three sacks, which is okay, but not great. Then he goes zero. New team signs him. Cleveland puts up nine sacks. Second year with Cleveland goes back down to three.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

Then he goes to Baltimore, new team, what's up? Nine and a half sacks on a one year deal. One of his best seasons he's had in recent memory. Then he turns around, he goes to Carolina. Five and a half sacks. Not the same. But he signed a new deal with Carolina where he had more cash. Then he's of course a free agent. Comes in late with the Cowboys. He's put up five and a half again, been more productive in less games and less appearances. Does that mean that he's ready for that contract and ready to take the step forward and continue that production in 2026, or are we due to see a bit of a drop off?

[Patrick No See Walker]

5 and a half is double digits around these parts, buddy. I'll tell. Take the sacks where I can hit her.

[Chris Beam]

So.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely. I don't think. I don't think beggars can be choosers when you have a situation where you got Jadevion Clowney who is giving the effort that he's giving in games that have no playoff implications. And for a defensive end room that we have continuously said is in dire straits, we do hope and expect that Ezraku will take the next step. We hope Cowboys will address the position with one of their top one of their top picks, be it first round or third or whatever, one of their top picks in the 2026 NFL Draft. And then you hope they address it in free agency. But I feel like one way to address it in free agency is to go with what you know and what you know. Having test driven Jadevion Clowney for the entirety of a season now you know he can be in the locker room.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Not even the entirety of the season.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, not even the entire season. You also know he can be in the locker room.

[Chris Beam]

You also kind of did that. Not to cut you off.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I didn't mean to cut off. No, you're good.

[Chris Beam]

But you kind of did that with Dante Fowler Jr. And you thought you knew.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You thought you knew.

[Chris Beam]

You thought you knew and you didn't. You did and he didn't. He hasn't done anything.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's fair. So.

[Chris Beam]

So the same thought process could be applied to Jadavian Clowney. It might not happen the same way.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It might not. Difference being though is again, it's, it's to your point because you make an excellent point as far as the up down, up down of Jadevian Clown.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, I just want to point it out. I love Jadeviani and I've been very impressed with him.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But I just want to point out between Fowler and Clowney was wildly different.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Fowler is the one coming off of a career season with the Washington Commanders. Fowler was the one reuniting with this staff and, well, new staff, but reuniting with the organization. So there was supposed to be familiarity that kind of helped him kind of hit the ground running to make. None of those things came to fruition for him. But then here comes Genevion Clowney from a completely different, different sphere with the Carolina Panthers. He's never been with the real expectation, no real expectations. And he's outperforms. So you have an overachiever versus an underachiever and that's kind of what you have to look at.

[Chris Beam]

I think when we, when he was signed, though. I'm waiting on you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm dying to hear when he was signed.

[Chris Beam]

I think our whole thought process is if he could get to the production he had in Carolina, then it was worth a win. Five and a half sacks and he's got, he's literally there right now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right.

[Chris Beam]

Who knows what he gets this week to up that number. But I think he's been worth what you've had overachieving. It's just been marginal. Like it's. It's a marginal overachievement, but it is a slight overachieve.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Achievements more than you expected out of.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But. But it's not a marginal underachievement for following.

[Chris Beam]

Not at all. Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's just.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. All right, Isaiah, you had your hand.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't believe that it was an overachievement by Jadavian Clowney.

[Chris Beam]

That's what I'm saying. It's.

[Patrick No See Walker]

If it's exactly what you expect.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah. This is the expectations that I had of Jadamian Clowney. Reason being exactly what I said last week or the week before, whatever it was, when we were having a conversation about the type of defensive end that I would like to bring in. Big body. Big body.

[Chris Beam]

You want that dude?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Because a big body defensive end that possesses the ability to pass rush as well as run stop is more valuable than just a pure pass rusher in my eyes.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, that's not accurate.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And speak for everybody else, Dante Fowler Jr. Is just a pass rusher.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You start dragging your words out like.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That in a particular system, a Dan Quinn system, that's where Dante Fowler Jr. Has thrived. No indictment on him at all. He's just better utilized and more impactful when he's in that specific type of scheme. A Judevian clowning body type is somebody that has a greater chance of having success in any system that you have. Because no matter what, when you bring in different coaches, you don't want to have to turn over your personnel as well. Right. Change is imminent in the NFL. So you either going to be changing personnel or you're going to be changing your coaches. Right. You much rather be able to keep your personnel and have them adapt to the coaches should you need to change there. Jadavian Clowney is a versatile. He's a Swiss knife type of guy that could play whatever you need him to play. You needed a pass rush, you could pass. You need to run, run, stop. He can run, stop. You need to hold the fort. He'll hold the fort, set the edge, whatever it might be. Every DN is not made up that way. And that's what I would like to say about Jay Clown.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But okay, you're talking about scheme fit and all those things. Are you saying that the Cowboys not. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but do you think the Cowboys did enough to change the personnel to fit Eber flu's scheme?

[Isaiah Stanback]

They tried.

[Patrick No See Walker]

They certainly tried. That was the point that I wanted to make.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Certainly tried going Back to our conversation last, last yesterday.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, they tried.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They added two new interior defensive tackles, both of which are dogs.

[Chris Beam]

Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They at, they, they, they traded for three linebackers. Three linebackers, okay. They went ahead and drafted big corner.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Don't forget about Kyrie Elam.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They brought in. Right.

[Chris Beam]

They.

[Isaiah Stanback]

So they brought in Kyre Elam was not a man to man guy. We knew that last year, right. When he was in Buffalo. Didn't have the greatest of years, but they brought him here because they say, you know, he's not a man to man guy. He's more of his own guy. So it should work for this system. Didn't work out. Right. Trade it for three linebackers in most people's eyes. Hasn't worked out. Brought in the two interior defensive linemen. Oh, hit. They hit on that one. Right.

[Chris Beam]

But those were different things.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And then they brought in Jadavian Clown. So when you think about the additions to this defense, Clowney, Clark, Williams, Wilson, Murray. Who else am I missing?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Sanborn.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Sanborn. They brought in Elam, eight guys. They tried.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But like you just said, and I think you kind of just reiterated his point from earlier, you brought in two sure things. Surefire guys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Clark, sure. Yeah. Clark and Quinn and Williams. Guys that could probably work in any scheme.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It doesn't matter the scheme. So those are just guys.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And they tried.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And in guys, you know, good football first and foremost.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, see, can allude to this. Right. It's not specific because it never went down. Right. But they tried to acquire other people. Yes. As well. That would have had a tremendous impact and would have helped tremendously on this defense. It just didn't work out financially. Right. But to the also the point we had yesterday, there's only so much pie. There's only so much pie. And it's going to get worse because if you choose, if you choose to bring back George Pickens and Javante Williams, and Javante Williams was not going to kill the bank. I think you'd be able to find somebody complimentary.

[Chris Beam]

He's going to want a multi year deal though.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He's going to want a multi year deal, but I don't see it being more than, you know, five or six.

[Chris Beam]

He's not going to be a franchise tag possibility like Pickens. Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He's not going to affect your salary cap in my eyes.

[Chris Beam]

Right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But, but George Pickens. George Pickens is right. If you want to retain George Pickens, he is going to impact how much pie can go around. There's a, there's already not Enough pie going around.

[Chris Beam]

Most of it's on the offensive side of the football team.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Absolutely. Three, you're going to be paying five people probably 70% of your salary. Your salary cap. Yeah. Somewhere around. I'm not a numbers guy. I don't have that in front of me right now. But Dak CD George, if he comes back, Tyler Smith, Jake Ferguson, I'm not.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Worried about celery kelp, not worried about pie. I'm not worried about there's. There's. The pie is finite, but the pie can be like. You can find ways to.

[Chris Beam]

To expand that pie, but to sign impact players and that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So that with that being said, you're going to have to let some guys walk and that because right now they're.

[Chris Beam]

Projected to be 30 million over the cap in 2026. But in the worst in the NFL.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The guys that you have to discuss potentially let walking is not the George Pickens of the correct. It's not the Javante Williams of the world. And for me, it's not the Davion Clowney of the world. It's if you're going to move on from this defensive coordinator. And it sounds as if. Because you can interpret what Jerry Jones said in 153, the fan is however you like, he said. I'm glad you asked.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Thanks, bud.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Here's the quote he said. As far as discussing the defensive side of the ball and the coaching staff and the coordinator quote, we'll get to that pronto. More than one person had their finger in this. We're trying to solve the problem and get better where we are. And one guy. Guy is not going to do that. Freeze for a second. So at that moment you're thinking, oh man, he might hold on. It's not all Eber flutes at all. That's a team wide breakdown. And then he continued on. As far as making it sound one way or the other, there's no in between. It sounds like either Jerry Jones is going to keep his continuity with Matt Eberfluss or he's going to clean house. He's going to defensive side of the ball. I don't feel like there's any one way in between that. Which brings me back to the point I'm about to make to Isaiah. If you're going to make that change at defensive coordinator and clean house. Jerry also, later in the conversation with the fans, spoke about his concern about progress stoppers. That was his phrase, progress stoppers. Okay. It wasn't tied to Clowney, it wasn't tied to Williams. Javante Obviously, it's not even tied to George Pickens. Obviously. But might it be tied to a guy like a Jack Sanborn or Kenneth Murray?

[Chris Beam]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You see what I mean? Might it be tied to those guys?

[Chris Beam]

I do agree with you there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So then if you take that thought process from Jerry and he's concerned about certain guys being progress stoppers, not the guys we're talking about. New defensive coordinator comes in. What's the message to the new defensive coordinator? Has Jerry Jones and the Cowboys learned to not look at that D.C. and say, go, we'll get your guys, or will he say, develop who's here? Like your Maris Leophiles, your demarvion overshone, some of your younger Donovan, Ezraku, Shamar, Shemar James? It makes for a very interesting conversation to be had upstairs.

[Chris Beam]

And that's where I think Dan Quinn had success here, because I'm of the mentality. And when you watch the film going back to 2021, when he took over a Mike Nolan defense that was historically bad in 2020, when you started in 2021, I don't think the talent on this defense is overstepping anybody else in the NFL. But what Dan Quinn did is he developed the talent that was in the building and he developed the guys. He. He fit guys to the system that he had, and we've talked about that multiple times. And then that system kind of became his system. He said, okay, it worked here. Maybe it'll work in Washington. And he got a couple guys to go with him. It worked for a year. And then when those guys kind of fall out of favor or get hurt, then it falls into what happened this year in Washington. I think he was a developer. Mike Nolan didn't develop. Dan Quinn did. Mike Zimmer? No, he did not. And now we're at Matt Eberfluss. And we talked about it before. I like Matt Eberfluss. I've always liked him as a person. I think he's a good coach. I. I just don't think it was the perfect fit here in 2025. Yeah, I just don't think it worked out the way he wanted to. But I also can't say that he's had a more talented defense because outside of the interior defensive lineman, outside of maybe a healthy Duron Bland, who else on this defense are you confident in right now?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Really quickly, though, I don't want to, just because talking a lot about Dan Quinn and what did work here. But let's not forget that there was a lot of bad, too. We played a full season without linebackers.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And a safety as a linebacker for an entire.

[Chris Beam]

Couldn't stop the run to save your life.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Couldn't stop the run. Which is a thread that has followed the Cowboys for many years now.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So I don't want to just say, oh, like the defense was unstoppable.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Was that a personnel problem or a scheme problem?

[Chris Beam]

I think that was a scheme problem.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think that was a person.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You were lacking linebackers. You had to bring a safety down. You had no interior defense alignment. So you had to try to bring pressure.

[Chris Beam]

See, but that's the thing is they had to bring relentless pressure in the scheme that made it work. And they had to bring relentless pressure. And that gives up the run almost for sure.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If some say it. So is it a scheme problem first or is it a personnel problem? Personnel. And then the scheme tries to make.

[Chris Beam]

Up for the lack of the chicken or the egg.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Exactly.

[Chris Beam]

The egg came first. And that is the. The personnel.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Well, if we're talking about the Green Bay playoff game, like your biggest loss ever, I mean, absolutely.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But what.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But why is that not a scheme?

[Isaiah Stanback]

But. Well, why did you change the scheme?

[Chris Beam]

Because it was already.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Because you had. You didn't have enough cornerbacks. Right. And the one cornerback that you had invested in for that year, the veteran cornerback and Stefan Gilmore had a dislocated shoulder. Now couldn't play press man. What does like Dan Queen like to play press man. So what do you have to do that game because of the lack of personnel?

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Change of scheme. Personnel. Scheme had to change.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Saying I on the same page there.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. It's first.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was personal.

[Chris Beam]

I. I just don't think the guys on this defense are very good. That's just plain and simple.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You don't have enough.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You don't have enough. I don't think you have certain guys.

[Chris Beam]

Some guys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You have some templates.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't think either take is incorrect it all again, that's one.

[Patrick No See Walker]

One begets the other.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's like Jerry admitted, this was a team wide failure on the defensive side of the ball, which means you have to assess the personnel outside of Quinn and Williams, Kenny Clark and also who you just paid and. And wanting to bring back Jadevion in the development of Ezra. And you got a linebackers. You have to look at it from a personnel standpoint. How are we going to attack it? Free agency versus the draft. You don't want progress stoppers, but you need a veteran leadership such as Davion Connelly because you don't have DeMarcus Lawrence in the building anymore. And I feel like that's a great replacement for DeMarcus Lawrence at this point in time. And then you look at the coaching staff and you say, okay, well, it's not all on Matt Eber flu, but it is on Matt Eberfluz. But it's also on position coaches. Right. Are the position coaches the one. The right guys to develop the guys that you have.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I feel we've had this conversation and.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I did that for a reason, but I'm going to leave it there. I know.

[Chris Beam]

One last point before we move on because we got to take your calls. But you talked about whether to attack it through free agency trades or the draft.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You.

[Chris Beam]

What is really hamstrung you more than anything in my opinion as well when it comes to personnel is they have struck out on the defensive side of the ball in the draft. I'm going to take 2025 away. Okay. Because they're rookies.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

Taking 2025 out of it. The guys before that that you have drafted. And I don't know if you can look at me and say you've seen enough out of any one of these guys for any particular reason, but you've got, of course, rest in peace. Marshawn Nealon. Love you, brother. He was probably the best guy out of that 2024 class in terms of the defensive side of the ball. Maris, Leofoul Kaylen, Carson, who's shown some things. But have you seen enough?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Same same with Maris.

[Chris Beam]

Absolutely not. Same thing with Maris. Then you go down to Justin Rogers. He was a seventh round pick, not even in the league anymore. Mozzie Smith? No. Demarvi and overshone. You've seen some things and he might be the one exception, but he hasn't been on the field, so that's. That's tough. Villiami Fahoko? No. Eric Scott? No. Jalen Brooks. Oh, wait, sorry. That's offensive side of the ball. Sam Williams, the year before that. He's still around, but has he lived up to the second round expectations?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Not at all.

[Chris Beam]

No. Duron Bland. Yes. You've seen enough there. That one's fine. Damone Clark, John Ridgeway, Devin Harper, I mean it goes on and on. That's three or four drafts where you have struck out on guys and you're still waiting on 2025. Donovan as Rocco looks like he's going to be somebody, but you still need to see more. Savone Revel. He's been hurt, unavailable. And when he has been available. It hasn't shown out yet. Jamar James has shown some things but still need to see more. You can't keep striking out on the defensive side of the ball in the draft.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Agreed.

[Chris Beam]

They've added some pieces, but none of them have worked out, and that's a problem.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Free agency?

[Chris Beam]

Maybe free agency is the answer. Maybe trades are the answer. Who knows? I think they've they've kind of started dabbling in those realms over the last couple of years. All right, when we come back on Talking Cowboys, we're going to take your phone calls 888-855-2297. More Talking Cowboys right after this.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Lowe's knows Sundays are for football, so tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, Select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products and more. Then once your to do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax and enjoy the game. Shop in store or online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official partner of the NFL. Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. A box of fine wines? Yes, that is happening. Delivery is on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, then how about some French fries? Yep. A little escape? No. A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes. Yes, that. How about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but barbecued prawns? Order it and it's on its way. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Get almost Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools, expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you get the job done right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're with you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's our promise to you. Because no matter the price, project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you.

[Chris Beam]

We're United Cowboys fans. We've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is Now available at Texas 711 stores, and for a limited time, you can score two cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch 200 milligrams of caffeine. Veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood, 711 here in Texas, grab that two for $6. Black Rifle Energy Deal. And f the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's coffee.

[Kyle Yeomans]

How's it going? You see that Cowboys game?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh, I watched. Been seeing some good things.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Totally. They have some talent.

[Chris Beam]

Yup. Some great talent.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody, by the way.

[Chris Beam]

I'm Travis.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Go Cowboys.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. At, at and t. We guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the vet.

[Chris Beam]

Hey, yeah. I can't believe he ate the whole.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Thing of chicken wings.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And I can't believe we're staging a comeback. Touchdown.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers must be connected to impacted tower on set of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply to comm slash guarantee. For full details.

[Chris Beam]

Back to talking Cowboys. Back here on Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company. The official copy of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign. The official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Back with Patrick. No See Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah, stand back. Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. It is a talking Tuesday, the final one of the 2025 season.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't like those words.

[Chris Beam]

I know. We will take calls and sporadic points throughout the off season. Just not right, like every show because we're on Tuesday, so don't expect us to take calls every Tuesday. So here we go. Mike in New York.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Get us started.

[Chris Beam]

What's up, Big Mike?

[Caller]

What's going on, guys? I feel like the Cowboys, I, I know it stinks. I wish the season wasn't coming there and I feel like, you know, I, I hope we do something in free agency. I feel like the draft, one of those things, you know, it's hit or miss. You know, you get guys, you think you're going to get guys that are good and you just don't know. I'd like to see us do a little More free agency on the defensive side of ball. I mean, I feel like Quinn Williams in interior is good, but we need lot. We need linebackers, we need secondary help. I don't know. I know there's a lot of talk about Brian. Brian Flores as our new defensive coordinator. I don't know, though. Is it. Is it going to change? I mean, I mean, yeah, coaching matters, but the players have to do it as well. It's kind of. I don't know. It's the way I see it.

[Chris Beam]

Thank you, Mike, for the call, as always. And he brings up a good thing to remember when we go into this off season. There are names and I'm not even going to say beef low because he's still under contract and he's doing his thing up in Minnesota and there's a reason why he's having success on the defensive side up there despite not a great season. There are going to be names that fly around, whether it be coaching or free agents. Anytime there's a name that's mentioned online that is a free agent in some sense of the word will be tied to the Dallas.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely.

[Chris Beam]

That does not mean that there is mutual interest between the Cowboys and that person.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Validity.

[Chris Beam]

There might be interest from that person to the Cowboys, there might be interest from the Cowboys to that person, but there has to be mutual interest for that to happen. So this is a good reminder going into the off season that you cannot put your eggs in every basket that you see along the way. Because just because a name is out there doesn't mean it's a real possibility or even that there's any truth to it. That name drives the price up and that's the case.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And can you also communicate to our family.

[Chris Beam]

Yes.

[Isaiah Stanback]

About what we can and cannot speak about.

[Chris Beam]

If anybody is under contract for the length of the league year, we can't talk about it. So if they're under contract, why Kyle? Because that would be tampering. We get in real big trouble and the organization could lose draft picks if little old talking Cowboys decides to talk about people that are under contract on other rosters. So we can't talk about that. Let's do move on though. Anybody else have any thoughts on that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Was a service announcement.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Chris Beam]

PA psa.

[Isaiah Stanback]

All right.

[Chris Beam]

Jalen and Shreveport. What's going on? Jalen. Jalen just dropped. Oh, Jalen dropped. But we got Mike in Kentucky. What a Mike in Kentucky? What part of Kentucky?

[Caller]

I'm just a little bit west of Lexington. I don't know if y' all want to.

[Chris Beam]

That I Love Lexington so much. That's one of my favorite cities. I'm not even going to lie. So much bourbon and good food. It's a good spot. What's up, Mike? What's on your mind?

[Caller]

I think I'm the only Cowboys fan out here. It's a little lonely, but we're holding down the fort here.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, you'd be surprised. Appreciate you calling.

[Caller]

Yeah.

So I'll be quick today. I just want to say how much I love the show.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Thank you.

[Caller]

I look forward to it every day and I appreciate how positive you all are every day. It's just a bright spot in my day I get to look forward to. And I just want to call in and let you all know that as we finish up the season here. But that's all I have. Keep doing what you're doing. I appreciate y'. All.

[Chris Beam]

Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But you just said positive when Coy Isaiah is on the show. Like, what's that about?

[Chris Beam]

Where the heck is Corey Isaiah?

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, not today.

[Chris Beam]

Remaining positive.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Not on this. Talking Tuesday.

[Chris Beam]

I like it. I like it. Appreciate you calling the love and enjoy Lexington because that's a great town. All right. Hoodie Kush from the basement, boys. What up, Hoodie Kush?

[Caller]

What's up, fellas? How's everybody this lovely day? Everybody enjoy their holidays?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yes, absolutely.

[Chris Beam]

Positivity, Patrick.

[Caller]

No seed prayers going out to the young man with a broken leg. You gotta tell him to stop putting his foot up. People's y' all talking about.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, you know, if his friends stop talking trash about the Cowboys, maybe he won't break the foot off him.

[Caller]

That's what I'm talking.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Like, okay, some things are. Some things are acceptable, but get into it. So I'm seeing online, you know, shoddy is, you know, the. The quote was we. We messed up the rotation. That tells me that's coach speak for I'm taking bullets for my defensive coordinator. Am I wrong? And as far as coaching is concerned, as far as the prospects of coaching, I mean, you got Vance Joseph out there who's probably going to his. His contracts coming up, Steve Spagnolo, Jim Schwartz. There's a litany of guys. So you guys are correct. It takes two to tango. We may want them, but do they want us? I am big on that, but that's pretty much where I'm going to leave it. I want you guys to have a blessed day. You heard? Happy New Year to y'.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All.

[Chris Beam]

So, again, can't talk about those guys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That he Just mentioned he was on hold. Kyle.

[Chris Beam]

He was fine. I know, I know. But when it comes to his first point of Brian Schottenheimer taking bullets for the defensive coordinator, do you believe that's the case?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, absolutely.

[Chris Beam]

I think so, too.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely. He took one most recently, and I respect Brian Ford.

[Chris Beam]

That's what a head coach should be doing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Not 24 hours ago, he took another bullet because he said when he was kind of pressed about it being confusion on the coaching staff because it was Stephen Jones that said to 105. 3 the fan that there was confusion as far as the Logan Wilson situation. And then they asked him to clarify. He said it was on the coaching staff. Okay, so segue to yesterday, Brian Schottenheimer's press conference. Brian was asked about it, and Brian said, yeah, it was on the coaching staff. He went to explain, and then he pulled back for a second and said, hey, we. It happens on the offensive side of the ball, too. That bullet again. Did you. So, yeah, absolutely. He's taken several bullets for the defensive coaching staff.

[Chris Beam]

And there are a couple times this year where you can see through kind of his wall. A couple times, just because he is such a. A nice guy and he loves to talk. And you can kind of see there's a couple times where Eberfluss is not mentioned specifically, but you can kind of feel it, that frustrate frustration. But I think for the most part, I think Schottenheimer's done a good job of trying to shield the problems on that side of the ball and put it on himself as the head coach.

[Patrick No See Walker]

As a guy that's so open with everybody and open with his answers, you can definitely see the wall when he puts it up.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yes.

[Patrick No See Walker]

There will be certain questions where he's like, yep, could happen. I don't know. Jaden Blue could be activated. I don't know.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, who knows?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Who knows?

[Isaiah Stanback]

I don't know.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He does, but he'll job of protecting his guys. But I also stopped like, he's. He's the type of person that, you know, he'll do that great job of protecting his guys. And then as soon as the press conference is over, pull that same guy into the. Into the offense. You're killing me, Smalls. Yeah, what. What are we doing here?

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, what are we doing? Have y' all watched the Hard Knocks this season? The NFC East? It's worth a watch. It's actually really good. But there are some behind the scenes of shotty in that show that no one on the outside normally gets to see. And it's really. It's. He's intense. And I've said this before, one of the ways I was impressed with Schottenheimer to start was the way that he commanded the draft room on draft weekend. I've never seen anything quite like it. And one day, if I end up writing a book about some of the stories that I don't talk about on the air in the building here, that's going to be one of the first chapters.

[Patrick No See Walker]

The Tyler Booker pick.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, the Tyler Booker and the Donovan Aziraku pick. Both of those were big time shoddy guys. Like, those were not. Not shoddy guys, but it was the way he commanded the room and put a vendetta across the board to make sure that they knew it was the right guy. He. It was very interesting. It was quite interesting. I hope they make a documentary about it one day. Anyways, what were your thoughts on that one, Isaiah?

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, get deeper. Good.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Next call.

[Chris Beam]

More stories. Three, maybe. I don't know. One last one. One. An Emmy. All right, let's get to Jalen and Shreveport. He's back. Hey, what's up, Jalen?

[Caller]

How's it going, guys? New week and it's a new day for us here.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, sir.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, it is.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Just like Jalen to drop one and then come right back and call back.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, good stuff.

[Caller]

Jalen, today is also the day for the Independence Bowl.

[Chris Beam]

I was about to say, is the Independence bowl today? Is that so? It's latex. And who.

[Caller]

If I knew the initials are ccu, but I cannot recall. Like, the Carolina car team, But I could. There was a new team I. I've never heard before.

[Chris Beam]

Coastal Carolina.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Chris Beam]

Okay, so LA Tech and Coastal Carolina. That'll be fun. Are you going?

[Caller]

I am, actually. It's about a couple of years since the last time I get out there, but I have a cousin who's actually at Louisiana Tech.

[Chris Beam]

Oh, there you go.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Nice.

[Chris Beam]

Very nice. Well, say hi to my. My good friend, head coach of LA Tech, Sonny Cumby. Good dude. What's on your mind?

[Caller]

I had a comment and a quick question for y'. All.

[Chris Beam]

All right.

[Caller]

Okay. The comment was actually in reference to a couple. For being first off, I'm gonna say I'm a long time listener for the Talk Cowboys.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And you're actually talking to the winner from a couple of seasons ago to the person who won the lay's potato chips.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was awesome. Like, yeah, like the lay's turf chips.

[Caller]

It was. Yes.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

And I was the one who won that Nice.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Love it.

[Caller]

Showing my loyalty for y'. All. For y'. All, the ones that helped made that happen.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. I appreciate you, man.

[Caller]

My question was, do you feel that the Cowboys need to put more attention on free agency to fill the greater voids on defense and then leave the draft for bpa? Best player available, considering where they are picking in the draft in the first round.

[Chris Beam]

Great question. Jalen, appreciate you calling. Appreciate you listening from all the way back there and those Lays chips days. Josh, I'm going to let you start on this one. What you got? Yes. Next call, free agency. Best player available. We solve the Cowboys. All right. That's it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's what you do. That's what you're supposed to do. Honestly, it feels like the Dallas Cowboys have kind of made a shift over last off season to be more active in free agency. Something we haven't seen from them in years. Right? I think a little bit of that. I think it went a long way for us because you did get certain guys that are helping right now. Thinking of Javante Williams, thinking about a few other guys that really did contribute among all the other guys that didn't contribute that we talked about earlier in the episode. But I think that's an indicator of if you're getting guys, proven guys, they are going to help your team right now, regardless of the scheme. You need guys, go get them.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, I agree. The bottom line is in the NFL, the shorter the window that you have, the more you need to lean on free agency, because the more you need proven guys, you don't, you have less and less time to wait for a, you know, collegiate prospect to have a breakout season. Defensive line, typically that's year three. If it's going to happen at all cornerbacks, that's fluid. Could be year two, could be year four in a contract year, you need guys like a Genevion Clowney, just using him as an example, because we were talking about him earlier, that have already proven that they can and still play at a high level. And then that allows you to go into the draft bpa, have that freedom and say, okay, these are the guys who are going to develop alongside and behind the proven guys we got in free agency. But again, I feel like if the window is longer, you can lean more on the, on the draft side of things because you have some time to develop guys. Which also means that you probably have some veterans already that you're still good to go with. But when you look at the Cowboys and you have a shrinking window, you have Dak Prescott still at A high level, but he's in his early 30s. I think he turns 33, 32, 33 next year.

[Chris Beam]

Give me a second.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, but when you have the window shrinking, bottom line is you have the window shrinking and you have the owner, General Manager turns 33, 33, and you have the owner and general manager becoming very aware of his own mortality. It's not to be grim, but that's just the fact of the matter. Even Dakiludi, he talks about it, all right? He talks about it all the time. Window is shrinking. You need more proven guys than developmental guys.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I can't disagree with anything you guys just said.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There it is.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Go get them guys. But it's not only just the guys and their capabilities on the field. You need some mental dogs. Like. Like, especially on the defensive side of the ball, there's a mentality that goes along and there is a.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You need to intimidate a little bit.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, for sure.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Nothing about your defense right now is intimidating, aside from your point in the interior defense.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Every interior, every dominant defense has an identity. This is one of the first years, regardless of how bad some of the defenses have been over the recent years, where you didn't feel as if there was an identity.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, they have one. It just.

[Chris Beam]

It's just one spot.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I'm saying, like, seriously, even. Even starts with it. We've had a lot of squeaks. There's been a lot of discuss. Ash. There's been a lot of disgust in terms of the. The defensive productivity over the last, you know, whatever, however years it's been now. But you can go along the line, start at Nolan, and walk your way down. You can say which each coordinator brought and what their identity of the coach was and how they tried to reincarnate that with the players on the field. You can't say that this year.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, you can. Like with dq, you can say takeaways. You could say pass rush. You couldn't say run defense.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But yeah, he, Zimmer, double A gap. You know what I'm saying?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like Fusion 20, 25. You. What do you got? You got Q. You got Kenny. But those came.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, but that's not identity. Those are players. What's identity?

[Chris Beam]

That's. That's a good point. All right, we got to take our second break. When we come back, we'll get to Jamie in Edinburgh, Texas. Edinburgh in just a moment. But more talking cow on a talking Tuesday when we come back.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Don't hang up, Jamie.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Lowe's knows Sundays are for football, so tackle your home improvement projects by Saturday and earn your Sunday with great deals on LG and Bosch appliances, Select Bounty and Swiffer cleaning products and more. Then once your to do list is done, get ready to kick back, relax and enjoy the game. Shop in store or online now and earn your Sunday with help from Lowe's, official partner of the NFL. Get almost anything you need delivered with UberEats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. A box of fine wines? Yes, that is happening. Delivery is on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well then how about some French fries? Yep. A little escape?

[Patrick No See Walker]

No.

[Commercial/Announcer]

A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes. Yes, that. How about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there, but barbecued prawns? Order it and it's on its way. Get almost Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Get almost almost anything delivered with UberEats. Order now.

@ AT T, we guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the.

[Chris Beam]

Vet. Hey, yeah, I can't believe he ate the whole thing of chicken.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Wings. And I can't believe we're staging a comeback.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Touchdown. Yes, staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers must be connected to impacted tower at onset of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guarantee for full.

[Chris Beam]

Details. It's the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. And right now, Cowboys fans can get 15% off their $75 order. Plus, because every deal needs a playmaker, your order will include a free five piece skin care set and free shipping. The Jack Black Playmaker is four of Jack's favorites in a full sized intense therapy lip balm. Make a play for the [e-mail] Cowboys with the code Cowboys VIP. That's getjackblack.com Cowboys with the Code Cowboys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

VIP. If you shout how about them Cowboys? You have that undeniable passion that's the heart of Cowboys Nation. And if you like to drink Dr. Pepper, you love the unique blend of its 23 flavors. Together you are one of the a kind fandom paired with the one of a kind taste of a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper is the game day lineup that can't be beat. Better yet, gather Your Cowboys and Dr. Pepper fan friends to watch the next game and crack open a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper for everyone. The wins will be even tastier. It's a pepper.

[Chris Beam]

Thing. Cowboys fans, we've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is now available at Texas 711 stores. And for a limited time you can score two cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch. 200 milligrams of caffeine. Veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood 711 here in Texas, grab that two for six dollar black rifle energy deal and fuel up the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Coffee.

[Chris Beam]

Foreign. Cowboys back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company live from the store in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studio. Wear your Cowboys gear to a Black Rifle Coffee location. Coming up on Sunday, get 10% off your entire order. That's the last.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Opportunity. Like.

[Chris Beam]

That. Like that. Yeah, like that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Too. That's like.

[Kyle Yeomans]

This. Like.

[Chris Beam]

That. That's nice. Hold on. Like that, like.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That. Do it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Slower. Not like that.

[Chris Beam]

No. All right, we got two more callers that we're going to get to. Let's go here in this final segment of a talking Tuesday. Been some great calls already. So the pressure is on for Jamie in Edinburgh, Texas. What's up.

[Caller]

Jamie? Hey, thank you.

Guys. Been a long time.

Listener. Just want to say thank you for QV Vision and for Lab Coat. Those are two awesome segments. Thank you guys for that. And just want to say two things. One, two more things. One, Kyle, if you could do me a.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Favor. Yes.

[Caller]

Science. The UTRGV vaqueros. Yeah, they're the inaugural season was this year they went 8 and 3 and kind of wanted maybe for the draft, see who could be, you know, considered from that team for the.

[Chris Beam]

Draft. I will do my.

[Caller]

Best. Awesome. Thank you so much, Kyle. Appreciate it. And then I'll next I'll make it quick. The other thing too is what would be the type of D coordinator that you guys would like to have on this team? I know we can't say names that they're under contract but like let's say a Rex Ryan type or I'm gonna go way back in the day. So Dave wants that type Of. And would you want the identity of that decoordator to be a front. Excuse me. A front to back or a back to front? And with that, I'll hang up and listen to you guys. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for.

[Chris Beam]

Everything. You guys do appreciate it. Yes, sir. Happy to be.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Here. If it's a Rex Ryan defense, it'd be foot.

[Isaiah Stanback]

To. Well, since you asked. I am of the mindset of a very aggressive defensive.

[Chris Beam]

Coordinator and he's not under contract, so you can go ahead and say the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Name. I've been on the table for. For Rex for some years, and.

[Chris Beam]

I've. I don't know.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Brother. I'm on that mountain by.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Myself. It's.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay. And I'm perfectly fine being on a.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Mountain. What is.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It? I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro two years ago. I have no problem climbing mountains.

[Chris Beam]

People. All.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Right. Rex Ryan is somebody that I will put in the pool of people that I would like.

[Patrick No See Walker]

To. Why is it, aside from his personality, aside from the name, what is.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It about his defense I've had to prepare against his defense.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Defense. Can't you lose a.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Foot? So I'm speaking. Yes, you.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Can. That's a.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Problem. Right into his.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Lap. That might be a.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Problem. No, no. And I've told Kyle this before, and I've said it on this platform before. I've had to. I've had the. The privilege of sitting in a room underneath Tom Brady as he and we prepare to take on the New York Jets. At the time that was. That was led by Rex Ryan, it was the most difficult team to prepare for. It was just hands down, that scheme was the most difficult scheme to prepare for. And for some. For a defense is one thing for a defense to be effective, it's one thing for a defense to be aggressive. It's another thing for a defense to be confusing. Hardly ever do you get all three. And that was the one defensive coordinator personally that I experienced on the field. And now I can say watching film all the time for all the games that Cowboys have played that possess all three of those. Those categories for me. And I know he's a. I know he's a wild card and I know he's a big personality and all the things that people can dislike or like about him, but you can't talk about his schemes. And if he has the personnel with that scheme and that confusion and that aggressiveness, I like all of that because you can literally adapt who you are from a week to week basis based upon your opponent. Every coordinator can't do that. And I've always felt as if he can do that. And he's a crazy enough dude where he is like, I'm a die on my own sword. Like, if you're going to beat us, you have to make a freaking play. It's not going to be no sit back and chill and let you just work your way down the field. Or there's nothing, there's nothing about him that says, eh, go ahead. You know what I mean? And I like that as a D coordinator. Now, most offensive head coaches don't like that. They rather it be safe. Right. So that they can get the ball back. So I understand why he's not perceived as being somebody that should be in a conversation, but I like what he's done in the league. I like his personality because the guys that are on the field are him. Right? They're, they're, they're, they're balls to the wall hit, you know, go run through somebody's chest. Aggressive type players, you have to have that personality type to play for a coach like that. He's not the only type that, that does that, but he is.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Unique. Now to his question, is he more of a. Like from the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Secondary? He's, he is, he is. Line of scrimmage, he's defensive lineman all the way out to the corners. Yeah, Corners gonna be big, physical, in your face. We're in your hip pockets. Right. It's very much so. Like a Dan Quinn. He, he is a Dan. Which is why I love Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn was that style of defense as well. I'm. If I'm gonna go out, you have to beat me. Right. That's just my style. Right. If I was to.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Coach. Well, you're.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Gonna.

[Isaiah Stanback]

1V1. 1v1 mano emano. I'm challenging you as a man to do your job. You do your job, we win. And if they, and if they do happen to beat us, it's because they made one hell of a play, not because we sat here and watched them run routes in front of us. Right. Defensive line, same thing. Aggressive, same thing. If you're going to protect against us and your quarterbacks don't have time, you're going to have to work for.

[Chris Beam]

It.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah. It's not going to be because we're rushing four or maybe we'll bring one additional. No, you're getting after it and you don't know where it's coming from. And I love that about these.

[Chris Beam]

Defenses. I love everything you're saying. I love the mentality that that would Bring. I love the opportunity that it would give to a lot of the guys on the team already to maybe take their game to a level. I think I'm good. I'm good without Rex Ryan in that capacity. Now, I will say there are two things to remember. One, Brian Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator under Brian Schottenheimer for a couple seasons in New York with the Jets. The number two thing you got to remember, he was fired by Rex Ryan as the offensive coordinator after a couple seasons with the Jets. So we don't know what that relationship's like. We don't know what that would.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Turn into early in his.

[Chris Beam]

Career. It was early on. It was back in 2009, the 2011 or whatever it ends up.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Being. Sometimes pain makes you grow. You appreciate those things.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sometimes. One thing. Great argument. Great, great, great. Next year is what.

[Isaiah Stanback]

2026.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. Rex Ryan hasn't coached an NFL defense since 2016.

[Chris Beam]

Yeah. I mean, it's 10.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Years. Our NFL offense is the same as they were in.

[Chris Beam]

2016. Not even.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Close. What's his.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Role? It's the window long. Or.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Is. What's his role? What's his role right now in.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Football? It's the window.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Long. So you're speaking to coaches in our past who have been away from the game, not tied to the game. This person you're talking about, somebody whose job is literally to watch football every day and then talk about.

[Chris Beam]

It. Do you think he does.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That?

[Chris Beam]

Absolutely.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay.

[Chris Beam]

Absolutely. I'm just.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Curious. People who love. People who love the game, watch the game. Right. And if you love the game and you're going to watch the game, and if you're paid to talk about.

[Chris Beam]

The game, you're going to watch the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Game, you're going to watch the.

[Chris Beam]

Game.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. You're stripping context. Ten years of that's fine.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Absolutely. Calling plays. You're absolutely.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Correct. So from the football acumen aspect, still sharp. I'll. I'll assume so. I'll assume.

[Chris Beam]

So.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. The offensive game has evolved, changed from 2016. And these aren't the same types of players. Better or for worse, you have to coach these players.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Different. You're absolutely.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Correct. Different.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Generation. Different generation. And for better, for worse. I know people want to jump in the chat. Oh, tough.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Guy. I look. Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Cool. I'm an old school guy for sure. Just so we're clear, I'm an old school guy. I'm old school sports guy. And I was talking about to a certain way when I was in Pop Warner in junior high and high school. And college. It. It was. I'm. I'm raised on tour days and pistol juice and those things wearing trash bags practice 100%. That being said, I'm also not being asked to coach these.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Players. I don't disagree with.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You. These players. That's a whole another I get these players are here right. Right after.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Practice. So let me ask you this question. So do you just take that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And say I'm not.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Saying. Or do you bring in somebody who has a certain requirement of his players and if you were to take a coordinator and place him on this team right now, which person could you put on this staff that would require less turnover and he can actually work with what you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Have? I have a couple of ideas because they're on the contract. But what you need is a guy who can blend both the old school and the ability to relate. That's what Schottenheimer does on the offensive.

[Chris Beam]

Side. Yep. Sorry, Chris, we didn't get time.

[Isaiah Stanback]

To get no 12.

[Chris Beam]

Callers. Yeah, sorry, Chris and Modesto, we love you, buddy. All right, we'll about talk to you again tomorrow. More talking Cowboys for Patrick Noi Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah, stand back. Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yus. We'll see you tomorrow. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Club. How about this.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Cowboys? Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber.

[Chris Beam]

Eats. What do we mean by.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. A little escape? No. A delicious bowl of grapes?

[Chris Beam]

Yes. Yes.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, No. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines?

[Chris Beam]

Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for.