Talkin’ Cowboys: Stick or Pick?

Summary

Talkin’ Cowboys: Stick or Pick?

Podcast: Talkin' Cowboys | Date: April 9, 2026

Hosts: Kyle Youmans, Patrik "No See" Walker, Isaiah Stanback, Josh Rodriguez

---

Episode Overview

In this lively and candid afternoon episode, the Talkin’ Cowboys crew dives deep into the Dallas Cowboys’ offseason strategy, focusing especially on the approaching 2026 NFL Draft. The central theme: Should Dallas “stick and pick” at their assigned draft spots, or aggressively maneuver—whether by trading up or down—to secure cornerstone talent? The team debates needs at linebacker, edge rusher, and corner, discusses the risks and rewards of trading draft picks, and evaluates possible targets. The episode features a blend of detailed roster analysis, insightful draft strategies, and the group’s trademark playful banter.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcome Back, Banter, and News Updates (02:01–07:00)

• Isaiah Stanback returns from vacation in Oregon, sharing his love for the outdoors and recommending Cowboys fans visit the region for some "touch grass" moments.
• Lighthearted ribbing about scheduling confusion and tardiness.
• Rosters & Transactions Update (06:00–07:00):
  • Cowboys' offseason has been "pretty dry" on transactions, particularly at linebacker.
  • Jonathan Bullock (OL) noted as the latest signing; linebacker remains a glaring need.
  • Donovan Eziraku, new safety, switches to No. 6 jersey; Donovan Wilson has not been re-signed.
  • Schottenheimer and the Joneses indicate Cowboys “are not done in free agency” and want linebacker help pre-draft.

Notable Quote:

"It’s been pretty dry. Cowboys did have the league meetings... Schottenheimer... specifically drew a circle around Bobby Wagner as a guy."
— Kyle Yeomans (07:03)

---

2. Draft Priorities: Positions of Need (07:15–24:00)

• Identifying Needs:

  • Linebacker: “Still a glaring box that needs to be checked off.”
  • Edge Rusher: Questions about Rashan Gary’s health, lack of proven depth.
  • Cornerback: Injury uncertainties (e.g., DaRon Bland's foot), though addressed in FA with Cobie Durant.

• Host Priorities (12:18–13:26):

  • Josh: Corner, Edge, Linebacker
  • Kyle: Edge, Linebacker, Corner
  • Isaiah: Linebacker, Corner, Edge

• Draft Strategy:

  • All hosts agree best available at those three positions are justified at picks #12 or #20.
  • Debate: Double dipping at linebacker vs. distributing picks across positions.

Notable Quotes:

"You have a void at corner right now... but at least you went and got a Cobie Durant, right?"
— Kyle Yeomans (10:47)

"If you’re telling me the best player available at those positions is on the board at 12 or 20, I’m taking any of those."
— Josh Rodriguez (12:03)

---

3. Stick, Pick, or Trade? Exploring Draft-Day Scenarios (15:06–24:50)

• Trade-Up Scenarios:

  • Candidates to target if falling: David Bailey (Edge), Sonny Styles (LB), Caleb Downs (S).
  • Will consider moving up (12 to 6) if one of those “game-changing” defensive talents falls.
  • Jerry Jones quote confirms Cowboys "will entertain improving" via the draft, including trades.

• Risk/Reward Calculus:

  • Concern over giving up two first-rounders or mortgaging future picks.
  • Others see the value in ensuring at least one day-one difference maker.
  • Alternative: Stand pat at 12, maybe trade up from #20 rather than both picks.

Notable Quotes:

"If any of those three names are at six [Downs, Styles, Bailey], I would get on the phone and just call and see."
— Josh Rodriguez (17:36)

"'Absolutely. The Cowboys will— we will entertain improving on an end draft.' ... the Cowboys are as we're entering the draft, they're open for business..."
— Kyle Yeomans quoting Jerry Jones (19:44)

---

4. Mock Drafts & Evaluating the Talent Pool (31:13–36:52)

• How Many Year-One Difference-Makers?

  • The hosts agree: this class contains only a handful of “pro ready” defensive stars, intensifying the stick-or-pick debate.
  • Top defensive prospects likely gone before #12: Bailey, Styles, Downs, Bane. Delane (CB, LSU) might fall.

• Internally Debating Prospects:

  • Ohio State’s Sonny Styles vs. CJ Allen: Styles is the athletic freak/positional flex; Allen is cerebral, perhaps better for green-dot responsibilities, but lacking in versatility.
  • Reason for urgency: The existing roster lacks cornerstones at all three key defensive positions.

Notable Quotes:

"There are six names that I think can make your defense immediately better.... Reese, Bailey, Styles, Delane, Downs, and Bane."
— Josh Rodriguez (31:29)

"[Sonny] Styles is a freak... he's freakish athletically, but he doesn't top CJ in every single category."
— Kyle Yeomans (35:31)

---

5. Philosophy: Cornerstones vs. Depth (38:12–49:56)

• Cornerstone Players vs. Depth:

  • Debate around prioritizing acquiring "a dog" (i.e., elite starter) even if it costs opportunities to flesh out depth.
  • Counterpoint: Avoid concentrating resources into one prospect, risking thin roster if injury strikes.

• Critique of Free Agency Approach:

  • The draft needs could have been less urgent if more had been done in free agency.

Notable Quotes:

"You [the Cowboys] don't have cornerstone pieces to build around and... six names."
— Josh Rodriguez (38:13)

"What we tend to do... is we want to get that one dog... but in order, sometimes... you got to give up some of your other pieces that would have allowed for you to spread the talent out evenly."
— Patrik Walker (46:45)

---

6. Trade Packages: The Price of Moving Up (45:22–49:30)

• What's the Price?
  • Moving from 12 to 6: the value gap is about a high second rounder.
  • To make a deal, must avoid "wagering your future" (future firsts), but a swap of picks this year might suffice, especially with a motivated trade partner like Cleveland.

Notable Quotes:

"The conversation starts at...I want your second round pick. That's the starter of the conversation."
— Kyle Yeomans (46:06)

"If it's within realm of possibility...go get yourself a dog. That's where I'm at. I'm not just wagering everything to wager."
— Josh Rodriguez (49:29)

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Classic Quote:

  "Stick it, pick it, and lick it. — My mom used to tell me that... that means go on about your business."
  — Patrik Walker (16:54)

• Host Banter:
  • A playful dig at Isaiah for vacation tardiness and bee farming:

    "Bee farmer Isaiah Stanback, everybody. Welcome in."
    — Kyle Yeomans (14:19)

• On Defensive Needs:

  "You don’t have cornerstone pieces to build around."
  — Josh Rodriguez (38:13)

• Draft Strategy:

  "Scare money don’t make money."
  — Josh Rodriguez (20:42)

• Roster Realism:

  "You were never going to fill all these needs in the draft, which is why you needed to attack free agency a certain way."
  — Kyle Yeomans (49:40)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• News & Cowboys Roster Update: 06:00–07:00
• Draft Order and Priorities Debate: 12:10–13:26
• Discussion of Game-Changing Draft Targets: 17:36–18:48
• Jerry Jones “Open For Business” Quote: 19:44
• How Many Year-One Defensive Starters? 31:13–32:43
• Sonny Styles vs. CJ Allen Debate: 34:46–36:52
• Cornerstone vs. Depth Philosophy: 38:12–49:56
• Trade Up Logistics and Value: 45:22–49:30

---

Summary/Takeaways

• The Cowboys’ biggest draft needs: linebacker, edge rusher, and corner, all with severe questions or lack of proven talent.
• Draft philosophy division: Josh favors risking picks for a game-changing star, while Patrik and Kyle lean toward maximizing total talent and avoiding overpaying for one player.
• There’s consensus that the lack of aggressive free agency maneuvers has forced Dallas into a “must-win” draft room situation, and creative thinking (including trading up) is both on the table and increasingly tempting.
• The team agrees: The draft will be critical, and Dallas must both find cornerstones and patch depth. However, sacrificing too many assets for one player may not be prudent.

---

For those who missed the episode:
This installment is an in-depth, energetic roundtable mapping out Dallas’ draft-day chessboard. It’s a must-listen for Cowboys fans eager for insight into the team’s thinking, especially if you’re ready for some spicy debate, real roster talk, and candid urgency about what Dallas must do to return to contendership.

Transcript

[Kyle Yeomans]

Introducing Home Care Plus, a new subscription service from Lowe's that helps make life easier by giving members a hand with home maintenance. Let Lowe's tackle the tasks you keep meaning to do, like electric dryer, vent cleaning, replacing hard to reach light bulbs, and more. Subscribe to Home Care plus for just $99 a year and consider your to do list done. Members get more at Lowe's. Available in select zip codes only. Cancel anytime.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Non refundable fee.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Product purchase required. Terms and service restrictions apply. Details@lowe's.com Terms subject to change.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco cd Lamb.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's on Jake Ferguson.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Prescott keeps it and he bangs it

[Kyle Yeomans]

in for the touchdown.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And now your hosts, Isaiah Stanbach, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. It's an afternoon edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in everybody. We've got almost the whole cast and crew ready for you to rock today. Isaiah will be joining us very shortly. He's just running late because he overslept. He doesn't oversleep when it's nine o'.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Clock. Yeah, when it's Good morning football.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, when it's good morning Football, he doesn't show up.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oversleeping at 2pm it's crazy work.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What happens?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Interesting.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's probably listening to this in his car yelling at the stereo. What are you guys talking about? I'm stuck in traffic.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Seems like a guy that didn't realize he had a show at 2 o' clock on Thursday didn't check his email. I don't know man. To be fair, I also didn't know that we had a show today. Really? Well, I just got back from vacation.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, true. That's fair.

[Isaiah Stanback]

First day back, I assume. Like oh, they did it on Tuesday.

[Patrick No See Walker]

How was it?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Deal? It was excellent. I went to Oregon. Went to Oregon for a little over or I guess a week and then had some days here back and forth between those days. But very refreshing. If you've never been to Oregon, please check that out. We were sitting in Portland. Love the people out there. Any Cowboys fans out there that were nice enough to to wear Cowboys hats or whatever, point out the hat that I was wearing. Shouts to them but yeah, do that. Go do that. Go to Mount Hood. Go see a mountain. Go see a snow capped mountain. You ever do that? Yeah you ever check that out?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Hell yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's amazing. So we were driving through, we were driving to Mount Hood. You don't get snow capped mountains around here, not in this America.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Plains and prairies though.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We're driving through the, like to Mount Hood through mountains of trees. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And I was like, this is where gorgeous comes from. Because it's like. No, I'm dead serious. Because of gorges. Yeah, that's where, that's where they are. And it's like trees as far as the eye can see it is taking up the skyline. How tall and gigantic these mountains of trees are. Most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And this is coming from someone who's lived in Texas my, my entire life. So yeah, who knew, Looking at, who knew America the beautiful, right?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Pictures you posted, I mean like literally looked like the definition of serenity, dude, like you, you look like your feet weren't even touching the ground.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, those pictures were spectacular, man.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We went to the Goonies beach. I did a truffle shuffle on the beach.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Did you?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Video or your line? And I guess you gotta pay for that, buddy. I guess you're lying behind a paywall. It's good. Get out, get outside, get in. Nature, man. It doesn't happen too. It doesn't happen often. Often enough. Nowadays we so attached to devices and you know, doing things on the home front and we've, you know, been blessed enough to be able to make our homes so comfortable where it makes it kind of difficult to want to leave sometimes, but it's good to get outside, get outdoors, get barefoot and run. Run in the grass or something.

[Isaiah Stanback]

A literal and certified touch grass moment.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You touched grass.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Touching grass.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm gonna run in the concrete parking garage across the same way.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's not straight through. It's not the same.

[Josh Rodriguez]

First time I ever went to Portland, it was like one of my first trips out of Texas when I, I was probably seventh, eighth grade. And I remember getting, it was in the middle of July, so Texas heat, humidity, like I said July and got on the plane, got to Portland after stopping in Arizona, in Phoenix. And then you go to Portland. And I remember getting off the plane, I was like, wow, not everywhere is 110 degrees in July. Like, wait, what is this? And I like the whole ride. I mean I was like I said a middle schooler. A whole ride to the hotel. I was just doing this in the, the breeze with the window down in the back of the car.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like you look like that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Rolling with the

[Kyle Yeomans]

homies. If you know, you know, if you don't know like that. Viral Jason Garrett meme on 1000%. I was.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I was doing that myself.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, it's the best. It's spectacular. If you can go on touch grass, please do that for your mental health. If not anything else.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Good reminder. All right, Patrick. No see, Walker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Time for some news and notes. Not a ton going.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Not a ton. Forgive me. I'm trying to get this seat situated because I got this thing going on.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We must have had a linebacker or two signed since.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, no. Oh, it's a no for me. Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, the Cowboys are gonna go back to Portland.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're not done yet.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They're not done yet. So, like Kyle Yeomans has so eloquently lobbed over to me, Cowboys have been pretty dry on the transaction front, honest. You know, obviously the most recent signing is going to be Jonathan Bullock, lineman, but outside of that, no linebacker addition. So that's still. Still a glaring box that needs to be checked off going into and for my money, also coming out of the draft at this point. We'll talk about that a little bit later. Donovan S. Raku announced that he will change his number to number six. So number six goes from one Donovan to the other Donovan. Right. So number six also being the number that Ezraku played with at Boston College. So he gets back into his number six. Donovan Wilson, obviously still a free agent. He was not brought back by the team. Cowboys signed Jalen Thompson, P.J. lock, to. To, you know, solidify that safety position alongside Malik. So outside of those couple of things, I mean, it's been pretty dry. Cowboys did have the league meetings in which Schottenheimer and both of the Joneses, Jerry and Stevens, spoke. And one of the more interesting things, number one, goes to the point of what Kyle was saying, which is Stephen Jones did say that the Cowboys, quote, unquote, are not done in free agency. As they go into the draft, they're really trying to check off that. That big linebacker box before they.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Pretty big box.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Pretty big box. And they want to see what, you know, what they can do before then. There's some free agent names that have been thrown out. Brian Schottenheimer specifically drew a circle around Bobby Wagner as a guy. Obviously, they spent time together with Seattle, and I caught that big box. I just don't.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You don't have to repeat it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I had to just keep going. It's a.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's in the middle of the defense. It's a Wide open hole. That's what it is.

[Josh Rodriguez]

A lot of these safeties have to play in the box.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's part of it. That's fair. That's fair. They didn't attack the box. Always attack the box. So, yeah, we'll see where they stand at this point going forward. But as it stands, and I can tell you, and this is something that we talked about on the last episode, I can tell you that the Cowboys have made attempts at trying to bring in a linebacker, a free agency linebacker, outside of the unsuccessful bid for Nicole Dean. He did not give up after that. There are some other names that are in the mix. You know, ones in, you know, the Southeast, you know.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Palm trees and the like. But, you know, takes two sides to make a deal.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So we'll see if the Cowboys can, you know, strike another blockbuster trade or trade of any effect or if they just simply go out and get a veteran linebacker. But I'm at the stage of the game where I feel like, because you're so close to the draft, outside of a blockbuster deal for a linebacker, if you sign a veteran, that doesn't preclude getting someone like a Sonny Styles or whatever the case may be.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Could you. Because they need so many bodies, they need so many guys at the linebacker position. Are you waiting on multiple moves here? I mean, and I'm not just saying sign a guy. Right. I'm saying trade and then draft a top 100 linebacker and then maybe sign another starting caliber linebacker or try and find one out there or maybe straight or draft two guys and trade for another guy. So you're adding three because you kind of need three or four new members of your linebacking core to even field the team the right way going into training camp.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I don't feel like you have the luxury to go overkill at linebacker. I'm. I'm on board with two of those options. So if you want to trade for one, I'd still use one of the.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Trade one.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Draft one. Draft one. But you got to address edge. You got to address edge. We talked about it a lot. Rashawn Gary was brought in, but you need something in addition to that. I don't feel like that's the only thing that you can't look at and say, okay, well, that's going to be my edge resolution there. Opposite is Raku, who, by the way, is coming off of labrum surgery. So, yeah, no, you have to address edge on day one is my opinion.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You have to address edge on day one.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I believe you do.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I Tend to disagree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I feel like Bane is staring you in the face.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Oh. I mean, I'm already on record. I'm already on record.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What are you doing? What are you doing?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Lovely.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Lovely voice.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I'm on record that I want Bane. There's no doubt about it. But I don't think that that is. It is necessary to get go day one with picking a. An edge. I really don't think it's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Tell me your. Your depth chart on your edge right now. Right now as it stands April 9th as Raku Rashan. Gary Labrum needs to improve off of last year.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sean Gary.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Fair enough. Then you have Marshawn Neon. My goodness.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Excuse me. Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You're good.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You're all right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Wish we had Sam Williams. Yes. Wish we had him.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. You have rest in peace to. To.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yes, of course.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Absolutely.

[Isaiah Stanback]

My mistake.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You. You wish you had Rusty. You wish you had something proven that you can sink your teeth into when it comes to Sal Williams. But you don't.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No. You don't know. Nothing is solidified there. But I also don't think you're named

[Kyle Yeomans]

that you can't sink your teeth into.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Not at all.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But you have a void at corner right now.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You haven't brought back Jadavian Clowney. You haven't brought back.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's fair.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Any of those guys do have a void at corner. However, you at least addressed that in free agency. You at least went and got a Kobe Durant, right? When you talk about addressing. Let's assume. Because I see where you're going with the corner. Let's assume.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I think it's linebacker and corner.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think those revel asterisk. Because I'm going to keep the energy. If I'm going to put an asterisk on as Rocco, I'm going to put

[Isaiah Stanback]

an asterisk the Ron Bland too. Are we sure about the foot?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right. But it could go either way. I guess what I'm. What I lean toward is just building it front to back.

[Josh Rodriguez]

This goes back to our March Madness conversation. This is what happened when we got to this point because it's.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Those three positions has changed since.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Nothing has changed. And you're completely right in saying that. But the thought process is corner. You don't have any healthy bodies. You have capable bodies as long as they're healthy. But you can't tell me they're healthy. Edge rusher. You have bodies, but they might not be capable bodies or at least they haven't shown in the past that they can carry the entire weight of a Pass rush ability from a team wide standpoint. And then linebackers, you just need bodies. You don't have anybody there. I mean, you've got Shamar James being your number one linebacker at the moment. I know you're. Everybody's saying, well, what about Marist edge rusher? What about Demo Hurt? I mean, you don't have bodies there right at the moment.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Shamar is the only one without an asterisk.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Exactly. So and even that's a fifth round pick from a year ago who played sparingly, saw some good things, saw some great things from Shemar and I think you'll see a step forward and they're really excited about him. So all three of those positions, if you're telling me the best player available at those position is on the board at 12 or 20, I'm taking any of those.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So you, without balking, you would triple up.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What do you mean?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Free agency, signing or trade to acquire a linebacker and you would still double dip with 12 and 20 at linebacker.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Not at linebacker. I wouldn't double dip at 12 and 20. I would double dip. In the draft.

[Kyle Yeomans]

In the draft.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There are linebackers on day three that I think.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay, I just want. So you can qualify. Yeah, because I know. I think we're talking. We're talking only about 12 and I'm

[Josh Rodriguez]

taking a linebacker and edge rusher in a corner in the top 100.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, you got, you got a third round pick back. Exactly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You've got three picks in the top 100. Those are my three. Linebacker, corner, edge rusher. Maybe not in particular.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, yeah. In what particular order then?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Depends on how the board.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Of course.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's all board.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But your priority at that point.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I would say corner, edge, linebacker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I would say edge, linebacker, corner.

[Josh Rodriguez]

See, but in, in how would go.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Linebacker, corner, all fledged.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The. But the, the thought process for me here is if I'm sitting here right now and I'm at 12 and let's say it's best case scenario and you've got the top edge rushers on the board, let's say Bailey or Bain, which is not happening. You're going to have to trade up to go get those guys. One of those two guys. Isaiah, stand back. Welcome to the show, sir. Only 14 minutes and 30 seconds late.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I told you I was going to be late.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What happens when you put a podcast

[Kyle Yeomans]

the middle of the dog?

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, you know, you didn't look at your email, man.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Hey, listen, my schedule don't work like that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

AM podcast fluid. That's why I do.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Am podcast Listen, I dragged my one legged. Hey, Crooked letter. Crooked.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I was out there doing country. I was out there doing country work. Out there moving rocks and boulders.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Setting up your beehives.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Exactly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's what I was.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Exactly.

[Patrick No See Walker]

The bees coming tomorrow.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Bee farmer Isaiah. Stand back everybody. Welcome in.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's out there trying to earn them Watts only powers

[Josh Rodriguez]

saying you earn honey the hard way, baby.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Give you that intro now. The flight of the Bumblebee, bro.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Exactly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Turn it up. Turn it up.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I'm definitely gonna get stung in the butt. How you feeling, bro?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Have you listened to any of the show on your way in?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay, I want you to take a guess right now.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What our debate is currently. It has to do with the NFL draft and trade back. No. And it's not a trade. That was my next stick and pick. Okay. So what do you think we're talking about?

[Patrick No See Walker]

If we're talking about the position.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And what.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What position do you grab first?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. And then what would be the three spots that we would be talking about?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Dn, Cornerback, linebacker.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And now if you had to put it in that order.

[Isaiah Stanback]

In that order.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Is it in that? No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What's your order?

[Patrick No See Walker]

It depends on how it falls. The way that I see it going. I see it. I see it being DN and linebacker interchangeable.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But what's your preference?

[Patrick No See Walker]

My preference is one of those two positions first. Mm.

[Kyle Yeomans]

One of those two positions. So, Ky, what was your.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So I was running through a scenario. I. I think it's unrealistic to expect Bain or Bailey to fall without something crazy happening that allows them to fall.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Right.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If they're at. Or if they're at 12. Right. I would take an edge rusher first. So that would go against my order of three. I still think corner is still very much so up there because of the health of the position.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yes.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And I would still take an edge rusher in that spot because you don't just find blue chip edge rushers. You can find a starting caliber corner. That's fine. You can do that. Especially at 20. I still think you're going to have a starting caliber corner at 20. So I would take one of those guys if they fall because that's unrealistic. I think it's more likely you're going to see one of the top corners fall.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So I have a question. I agree. Who's your. Who's your monkey wrench?

[Josh Rodriguez]

What is that? What is a monkey wrench?

[Kyle Yeomans]

You have Foo Fighters.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let's go.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We all agree.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We all have probably still on Medicine

[Kyle Yeomans]

bro, I'm on seven meds right now. I'm absolutely on seven medications. Absolutely on seven medications right now.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Look at that monkey wrench.

[Kyle Yeomans]

100% had that first post op yesterday and that, that scar is gnarly down there. But yeah, I'm on 7 meds. But nonetheless, we all agree edge, linebacker, cornerback, in any variation. Sure. When I say who's your monkey wrench? I mean like for example, a Caleb downs.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah. 100%, 1000.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If he happens to fall to 12, you absolutely see.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What if he falls to none? No, you're not going up. No, you're not going up.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I'm still not.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Don't give up more.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I stick it. I'm sticking and picking.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Sticking and pick it. As my mom used to tell me, stick it, pick it and lick it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Your mom told you that?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Absolutely. My whole, my whole childhood. Stick it, pick it and lick it. Whenever she was in regards to what

[Kyle Yeomans]

I was going to say. What's whenever?

[Patrick No See Walker]

If I was getting on her nerves, boy, just stick it, pick it and lick it. That means like go on about your business.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. Washington thing, it's interesting, I guess.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I don't know. Hood,

[Josh Rodriguez]

can you, can you ask me that question?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. So who, who's your monkey wrench who would have to begin falling that would have you deviate from those three positions that you just talked about that. We all agree that the Cowboys have a dire need in edge, cornerback and linebacker. What player would start to sniff around 12 where you'd be like, gotta go get him, gotta go get him.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There's three names.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Come on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

David Bailey.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Sonny Styles.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Caleb Downs. If those three names are at six, I would get on the phone and just call and see.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I would just call if Caleb downs is approaching 9.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I get it and I understand wanting to stay and take your 12 and 20, but we've run through a lot of simulations where you get wiped out at 12 and you're sitting there and the best player on your board that makes sense for you is Spencer Fano or Monroe Freeling offensive tackles. So with that being said or one of the wide receivers. So I'm, I'm looking at that and saying I want to upgrade my defense right now. Those are three guys that can do that right now.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If you're the Cowboys and at 10, Manguya is still on the board. Left tackle Miami. Oh, that's how you say it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, I like that. I was like, who is this player that I've not heard of yet? Yeah. Francis Malagoa. Mawanoa. Sorry, I'm not. It's a silent G. Not doing it.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But if you're the Dallas Cowboys, are you doing it?

[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If he falls to 12, they would, they would have that conversation. I think he's going three to the Arizona Cardinals personally. But the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

And fan. I was already off the board at that point too.

[Josh Rodriguez]

At 10, maybe. It depends. I'm saying we've run through simulations where it's more likely that the offensive tackles fall.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Than some of the defenders fall.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And that's, that's where I'm saying if you're Dallas and you want to upgrade your defense right now with a bona fide playmaker, any of those three names make it to six, I'm at least talking it through because there's a, there's a scenario where you can trade and we've talked about it on the draft show where you trade 12 and 20 to Cleveland and they pick up two first round picks because they don't need a bona fide six round pick. But you pick up 6 and 39. So you still have a first, second and third round pick. You just don't pick twice in the first place. But you get a guy like Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs or David Bailey at six and then you get a, one of these one, two cheater grades in the middle of the, the, the back half of the 30s and you end up doing something like.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So let me put this out there. For those that may or may not know we're talking about the Cowboys possibly moving up or down on day one or day two or day three. Here's the quote from Jerry Jones. It's in an article that I wrote on Dallas Cowboys.com and Jerry Jones effect quote, unquote. Absolutely. The Cowboys will, we will entertain improving on an end draft. Read on. What gives us a better chance to get another player, end quote. Now you can, you know, interpret that however you like. Bottom line is the Cowboys are as we're entering the draft, they're open for business to hear all conversations and possible scenarios and that does include possibly moving up. Now put my hat on and take.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Put it on.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, my hat on it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Put your Jimmy on.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You would have to sell me on trying to move up from 12 to 6. I don't have to. I'm married. You won't have to sell me for moving. You would have to sell me on moving up from 12 to 6 because that's, that's not an inexpensive venture. That's not.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, it's not.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's not.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But scare money don't make money. And those are three. Those are three.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Damn, Kyle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's what I'm saying.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There's three players right there. Three players right there that will immediately make you a better strong. Can you tell me right now, based off of today, as we stand on Thursday, April 9, 2026, that the Cowboys defense is significantly, and that's the key word here, better than what they were last year?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Significantly. Yeah. Hell no.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Exactly. I'm not sitting, waiting. I'm not sitting and waiting for something to fall in my lap. If that happens, great.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's why you need both picks.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Great. I get it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

For that reason, I get it.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Those are very valuable picks though.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You're still picking in the top 40.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But here's.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But now you get to pick a bona fide, no doubt safe playmaker that's going to get you the job done right now. And then you get another shot at a starter at 39.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But you don't think you do that at 12 and 20.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You might. At 12 you might. If one of those guys falls, Mansour Delane falls, Spencer Fano on the offensive side. That's the thing is I'm not looking at offense though.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah, of course.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm not trying to look at offense. You're going to get a good player at 12, don't get me wrong. But your defensive guys that you feel like are going to be shaking his head. Incredible. I'm just looking at. May not be there at 12.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Looking at the draft order.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And I think you're going to be in a really good position at 12.

[Kyle Yeomans]

For who? Any of those, any of those guys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You're going to get your, your linebacker, your DN or your, your safety of choice. I think, I think you're going to get that guy. I'm looking at it. I mean Las Vegas, they're getting quarterback. The jets, who knows what they're going to probably gonna take.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Arvel Reese.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. Okay. Arizona, they need offensive tackle. Yeah. They need an offensive lineman. Tennessee needs. Well, they need weapons there. They've already add a bunch of stuff on defense already. I can't. They might add more but that's been their primary defensive minded head coach. The Giants, they actually have pretty loaded team but I would imagine they probably go O line. Cleveland.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, Jesus.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They could take literally anything.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Washington could take anything. New Orleans could take anything. Kansas City, I would imagine, to be specific. But then you start getting down to Cincinnati, Miami. I mean, I don't see them taking the guys that you want.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Kyle, tell me who Is for sure the. Of the playmakers that you're talking about who is for sure off the board as well. With. With absolute.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Without moving up, it would be Bailey, Styles, Downs and Bane.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Off the board.

[Josh Rodriguez]

As long as nothing happens between now and the draft. That's my off the board.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Those.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Those four are off the board. The guys that I think could fall are Delane, the corner out of lsu. Well, that's. That's pretty much the only other name there I'd be interested in.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Vegas. Vegas is taking a quarterback. Tennessee's taking a running back most likely.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If he's there, maybe, maybe they might take David Bailey. He's a better edge rusher.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But if It's Delane at 12, do you think that at that point would be awesome? At 20 you can either get your linebacker sure. Or your edge.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, I think so. Which. Like that's, that's the risk you're taking. If you have the one name but you feel like is possible to fall is Mansourt. Elaine, you're. You're taking a risk sitting at 12. That Cincinnati, who needs cornerback help, doesn't take him. They take Jerome McCoy instead.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Right.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He runs a 4, 3, 8. Maybe they feel better about him and the tape, ACL, whatever. It ends up being this guy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

A shutdown.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Mansour Lane. Absolutely shut down.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's like who.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's a dog.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Like, compare him to somebody.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They're comparing him to Quinon Mitchell right now.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I don't know if I love that comparison. Let me give you NFL. Let me give you what I put in the draft magazine.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I mean, but anybody likes it. Keenan type.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I think you're going to get two really good players. I think you're going to get two. I mean, if you're talking. But this conversation is about moving up from 20 to 15 to go grab somebody or something like that, then that's a different conversation. But I don't think we have the draft equity in order to do that. But stick at 12.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We'll see.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Okay, so I can see them sticking at 12 and then moving up from 20. You know what I'm saying? To go make sure that I don't know.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, see, I'm just saying that's a better conversation because the thing is, is I think everyone needs to understand and remember that. And I know you're ready to go to break.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, we got to take a break.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Everyone needs to understand real quick that when you're talking about these trade packages, you're not just only. You're not only talking about 20, 26 draft picks, correct? Okay, let's go to break.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We can continue this conversation if we want. On the other side of the break. More talking cowboys right after this with the whole cast crew ready to rock. Appreciate you joining us. We'll be back right after this.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Owning a home is full of surprises. Some wonderful, some not so much. And when something breaks, it can feel like the whole day unravels. That's why Homeserve exists for as little as 4.99amonth. You'll always have someone to call, a trusted professional ready to help, bringing peace of mind to four and a half million homeowners nationwide. For plans starting at just 499amonth, go to homeserve.com that's homeserved.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Anyway, you enjoy Taco Bell's Crispy chicken nuggets is the right way to enjoy them.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And now there's a new way inside a Crunchwrap slider.

[Isaiah Stanback]

The all white meat crispy chicken nuggets

[Kyle Yeomans]

you love with your choice of creamy Chipotle or Jalapeno Honey Mustard sauce inside

[Josh Rodriguez]

a slider sized Crunchwrap iconic.

[Isaiah Stanback]

The new Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap slider with

[Josh Rodriguez]

creamy Chipotle or Jalapeno Honey Mustard sauce. A brand new classic only at Taco Bell at participating Taco Bell stores for a limited time only while supplies last

[Kyle Yeomans]

contact store for participation, which varies every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools, expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you

[Josh Rodriguez]

get the job done right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you. We're united.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If you're looking for fresh American roasted coffee that gives back, you need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle Coffee. That's right, America's coffee is now available in the coffee aisle of a grocery store near you. Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran founded with a mission to give back to those brave men and women who have served our nation. Every bag, box or can you purchase helps support that mission. Head to your local grocery store and roast yourself some Black Rifle Coffee.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Today as America's leading business lender, bank of America is on your corner and in your Corner. With over $9 billion in business loans and more than 140 business business specialists right here in North Texas. We help businesses thrive so communities prosper. What would you like the power to do? Learn [e-mail] Local Business bank of America Official bank of FIFA Club World Cup 2025 Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Getting AT&T's best deal on a Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra made me realize I do deserve the best. Like this bubble bath with fancy soap and and even this face mask.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Learn how new and existing AT&T customers can get the new Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra with Galaxy AI for $0 with eligible trading any condition requires trading of Galaxy S24 plus Z Fold 5 or newer installment plan and eligible wireless plan. Minimum $60 a month before discounts for AT&T value 2.0 subject to change. Visit att.com Samsung for details.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Foreign.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Cowboys. Back here on Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign. The official smile for the Dallas Cowboys. Back with Patrick. No see Walser, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah Stamback

[Kyle Yeomans]

or Josh, what they call them.

[Isaiah Stanback]

The Oregon Josh.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The Oregon Drop the Oregon Josh. Chris Beam is in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Did you used to play the Oregon Trail?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Died of dysentery.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Were you ever on?

[Isaiah Stanback]

I did.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Come on, man.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Beamer did.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Snake bite. Beamer.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Beamer. Got it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I used to hate when that popped up. You bought bitten by a snake.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, no, man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's showing our age now. Here, facts showing our age.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

What year does that come out?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, Oregon Trail. Dude, elementary school for me. You're talking 80s early. Play that on PC for my time. Oh, yeah, floppy disk.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Chris Beamer made a claim this morning. I think we need to bring up on the show.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He claims that he is younger than one Patrick. No see, Walker.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, I think that's true.

[Kyle Yeomans]

In what capacity are we speaking? Well, let me qualify in no capacity, but I just want. I'm curious what capacity is in terms

[Josh Rodriguez]

of like age as a number?

[Kyle Yeomans]

No. Yeah, I'm 45.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, you got. I got you by a couple years. Okay, so he's a little bit older. Beam was.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Huh?

[Isaiah Stanback]

How old are we being?

[Patrick No See Walker]

48. Okay.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's three, not two. Makes it a couple years.

[Josh Rodriguez]

A few years.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Because if you're going to make a claim.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He said it's so common. I don't think so.

[Kyle Yeomans]

If you want to so confidently make A bombastic claim such as that all I said.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I thought you were older than I.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's all I said. Not at all. No, not at all.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's the gray.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But it sound like you were 25.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It is the gray. Oh, no, I'm definitely not 25.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The original Oregon Trail came out December 3rd of 1984.

[Kyle Yeomans]

85.

[Josh Rodriguez]

71.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Really? Whoa. Oh, that's way beyond me.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That game was awesome.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's way beyond.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The classic version came out in 85. So that's probably.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's probably what I was thinking.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. The original was 71, but the classic version released for Apple II computers.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Widely recognized version of the game.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's what I played.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's what you guys were playing. 85.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yep. There you go.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And you learn something new every day.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You have the Apple ii.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What did I have?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Is that the one with the clear.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No, no, that's the Mac.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The colors. Yeah. That was fire. That was.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We got that in our computer lab.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We were like, oh, what is this?

[Isaiah Stanback]

They're only like four. You gotta share.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That was a flex.

[Josh Rodriguez]

All right.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, that's a subtle one. I want to continue this conversation.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

The. It will be a conversation on draft night, and Jerry Jones has already alluded to that. Everybody's talked about it. Trade up versus trade down. We've talked about trading up. And I know you guys aren't wanting to do so.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No, I.

[Josh Rodriguez]

My whole argument is that there are six names that I think can make your defense immediately better without any sort of red flags and any sort of question marks. And those were the. The six that I talked about there in Reese Bailey, Styles, Delane Downs, and bang. Those six names.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Let me ask you this question.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Five of them are probably gone, and you're waiting on one to drop.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Leading into this topic, how many defensive players do you think go in the top 20?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Choose.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'll go by. Let's just go by the. We did a draft show mock draft last week there that. There was those six names. Feneman, McCoy, Hood, Macedore. 11 and Terrell.

[Kyle Yeomans]

How many is that?

[Josh Rodriguez]

That is. I just counted through them. I believe that's 10.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So 10 or 11. Right on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

10 or 11?

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think 11. I think 11 going to top 20. 10.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Okay, 11.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So 11 going to top 20. How many difference makers, year one difference makers do you think there are on the defensive side of the ball in this year's draft?

[Kyle Yeomans]

4.

[Isaiah Stanback]

He just said 5, 6.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And I would throw. I would throw a key Mazador in there, too. I think he would be like my six and a half. He's not as good as those guys. He's not in that top six day one, but I bet you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But a potential six and a half.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Yeah. He could possibly be there. That's. That's where I'm at. Because the other guys have question. I have question marks with McCoy. It's the health hood. It's the technique. Messador. It's. It's partially the technique, partially the age he played six years in college. Terrell. It's the technique and maybe the processing ability. All of them. I have question marks on not saying that the previous six guys are perfect process or prospects, but I have less questions in my evaluation of them than I do the other.

[Patrick No See Walker]

How many guys would you take from

[Josh Rodriguez]

Ohio State in just in general? Almost all of them.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And the top 20, which you're 12 and 20 pick.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. Reese Styles. I would throw Carnell Tate in there because I think he's a badass. Downs. Is there anybody I'm missing? It's probably. That's probably.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It sounds like it's about as far as those picks he's talking about. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Four in the top 20. Where would you go?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, those three.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Three or three. Minus Tate.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. Like Styles. Styles will be first. All right, Sorry. Styles or downs. I'll take either one of those guys first. Yeah, I like both of them.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Sure.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Reese is cool. He's.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's. His is position value.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yes. Based upon the new scheme. He's. He's kind of sneaky when you turn on his film.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If you like C.J. allen over Styles, what is the reason behind that?

[Kyle Yeomans]

The.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I like the Rodriguez cat, too. Like the Rodriguez.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Should I say this objectively?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I like Rodriguez.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You can't say it today in a box.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I can say it. I've been through a lot. I could say it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Go ahead.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Go dogs. But no, I think, objectively speaking, all told, Sonny Styles is a better linebacker than C.J. allen. I do have him graded higher on my board. That, again, this is just objectively speaking. The science is the science. I don't think that he beats out CJ in every single category. I think, you know, athleticism. Absolutely. Football acumen on Sonny Styles is. Is outrageous. But I would argue that C.J. allen's football acumen is slightly higher because we're talking about a guy. They're both great, but we're talking about.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're both going to wear a guy in C.J.

[Kyle Yeomans]

allen. We're talking about a guy who. Who called the plays to every snap for Kirby Smart. And that defense in Georgia, I would argue, versus 65244. Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Positional flex.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Athleticism. Athleticism. Not even just athleticism. Flex. Yeah. Oh, fair enough, fair enough. Because.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Stop, stop.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I mean, Allan no disrespect. I haven't seen his film or anything like that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Y.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's Yalls thing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Excellent. Not great.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I'm looking at his size. He could play one position.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. And he's actually.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He's a mic.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, he's. He's not great in. In coverage, but he's. He's a bump out.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Well, yeah, yeah, he's a mic or.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But what, what I'm also here.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The thing with C.J. allen is where he, where he lacks in athleticism, he makes up in the ability to diagnose quickly.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No doubt.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right, so. So because he can diagnose quickly, it masks some of the. The athleticism deficiencies.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Whereas Sonny Styles. Again, this is not saying Sonny Styles is not of a high football iq. We just said it's outrageously high. But I do put CJ's a little bit higher. Sonny is just. He's a freak. He's freakish. He's freakish athletically, but he doesn't top CJ in every single category.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Is he more aggressive than CJ Allen at tackling and coverage?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think so.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I would think so.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So, yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I would argue that your defense defensive coordinator is looking for a guy that's going to be able to be the green dot. No doubt about it. And granted, if Sonny Styles is that guy, he's that guy. But to me, C.J. allen has the. The brain works.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He does.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That has been brought in terms of our defensive coordinates.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sonny's more aggressive in coverage because he can be. Because he's.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Well, he came from the safety position. Correct?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right, correct. But also because he's more athletically inclined to do so. Cj, he's not as aggressive in coverage. There are times where he second guesses in coverage because he wonders if he can kind of get there. But when it comes to run fits or a mobile quarterback, he's there. So I would argue he's better in run coverage and run defense. Not run coverage, but run defense than Sonny. But as a total athletic package who can do both, I'm going to get.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What position are you putting Styles at?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Linebacker. What part?

[Patrick No See Walker]

What you mean? Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, good question. What do I have overshone? Overshone is my will, probably. Yeah. Shamar is my Sam. Okay, so then he has to be my mic. He has to be my mic and

[Josh Rodriguez]

he should be the mic, I think in this system. I think you would.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Six foot five Mike is crazy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It'd be wild.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But. So then what's your orientation? If you get him and you. And you would prefer. Or unless you're saying you wouldn't prefer demo to be.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's if he falls, which probably not.

[Josh Rodriguez]

See, that's why I had my conversation. We're talking about a freak. This guy's awesome. Go up and get him. Go and do it. Just stop being scared and go and make a move and go get you a dude. But these are dudes. CJ Allen, by the way, I love CJ Allen and I've mocked him multiple times to Dallas on the blitz on draft show. All of these different things. I had a little birdie get in my ear and there might be some medicals. I haven't confirmed that yet, so I'm not going to say it specifically. There might be a medical there. That's question mark. So if you start to see him slide, that might be why.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You need depth, Kyle.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I love that.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You need death.

[Isaiah Stanback]

I need more than one guy.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

That's the thing. More than one.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Understand?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Stop after day one.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And I respect what you're saying.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Who's the best player on your defense?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Who's the best player?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Who's the best player?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay. On defense.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Okay.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Who's your second best player on your team?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Clark.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, what positions do they play? Oh, that's interesting. What about like playmaking positions? Positions. Let's talk about like linebacker, edge, rusher, corner.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Who's your best player at skill positions, huh? When healthy.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. This is a team effort, Kyle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You don't have. You don't have cornerstone pieces build around and I don't. And you have it. You have six names.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I don't think that's what they're looking for.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think they're.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I think they're looking for.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I agree.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I disagree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I agree.

[Patrick No See Walker]

They don't have the.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're looking at cornerstones, dude.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, you can have cornerstones, but like if you have a cornerstone, that cornerstone gets hurt. And you look behind them. Ain't nobody there. Then what?

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's football. That's part of.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's what's. That's.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If Dak Prescott gets hurt, that's the same. Gets hurt.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That's the same Company went out and got another quarterback.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Sam Howe. You're talking about Sam Howell.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Listen, I think. I think they're going to get cornerstones and then they'll worry about the depth. Day three, UDFA free agency, post draft type stuff. I don't think they're going into this draft saying we need to identify depth.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I'm not talking about Jabronis, I'm talking about not. You might not get your number one player on the board, but you might get your second or third and he's

[Kyle Yeomans]

still going to distribute well, right? Totally fine.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But don't give up your draft equity to go grab the number one guy and then you have nothing else to go grab because that's what it's going to require.

[Kyle Yeomans]

See, you see, you're saying draft equity and this is what I, I won't

[Patrick No See Walker]

ever have top 20 picks.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, but use them. You can have a top 10 and

[Patrick No See Walker]

top 40 reach and go get a player. And I say reach because you actually have to go up and grab the person not reaching, meaning that that's outside of what you're, what you're doing. You have to reach and go grab a person. You're not going to have the 20th pick anymore.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, you have 39 pass the equity have.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You currently have two first round picks in the top 20. You need those picks.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Why are so many future picks to be factored into the trade?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Because you don't have them.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You do. And not only do you negotiating, Stephen

[Patrick No See Walker]

Jones is negotiating and the Cowboy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And with that being said, the Cowboys have shown a proclivity recently, last couple of off seasons, to be willing, more than, more than I've seen in recent history, to give up future picks to try to improve this year's draft. So I say that to say the evidence is there on that side of the kinda. The evidence is kind of because, because

[Patrick No See Walker]

we heard that conversation going into this offseason and we still have two top 20 picks.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Well, you got two top 20 picks because also you still have two weeks into the draft. So I mean, my point, just saying. My point being we, we didn't think

[Patrick No See Walker]

that we're gonna be sitting here with two topics right before the draft start.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Let's stop taking the beginning of the off season.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh yeah, that's what gives, that's what gives you the arsenal to go get you a dog.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Let's, I'm just saying let's stop taking 20, 27 picks out of the equation for some reason because. For some reason the crux of those arguments who say, well, you don't move up because you want at least your two picks that you have your two. What is it?

[Patrick No See Walker]

In order to give up up a top 20 pick in this year's draft Right. It's what if you're an organization and Jerry Jones and Steven Jones call you? What do you need in return?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes, you know that's a conversation.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, no, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Who's on the phone?

[Patrick No See Walker]

What is no seed. What does no see need? Where does the conversation?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'll give you the break to think about it. When we come back. We'll talk about that and wrap things up here on this afternoon edition of Talking Cowboys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It never happens at a good time. The pipe bursts at midnight. The heater quits on the coldest night. Suddenly you're overwhelmed. That's when HomeServ is here. For 4.99amonth, you're never alone. Just call their 24. 7 hotline and a local pro is on the way. Trusted by millions, Homeserve delivers peace of mind when you need it most. For plans Starting at just 4.99amonth, go to homeserve.com that's homeserve.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Month.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Your First Year Terms apply on covered repairs. This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. All right, real quick. Take a look at yourself right now.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Why?

[Kyle Yeomans]

What's wrong? Nothing's wrong. You look like a guy running on three hours of sleep and vibes.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay? Yeah, I'm tired, kind of cranky, and very thirsty.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Congrats. Those are some of the potential signs of mild dehydration. And I bet your last bathroom break showed you another sign your body might be throwing you a penalty flag.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So what's the play?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Call Liquid IV hydration multiplier. One stick in water helps hydrate faster than water alone. Okay, but where's the proof? Liquid IV's clinical studies, not just a guy. I know real science. Results you can trust. Well, take a look at me now.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Liquid IV is officially part of my daily hydration routine. Pass the firecracker. Popsicle flavor.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Stay hydrated like a pro, not like Jack. Before this. Stock up on Liquid IV hydration [e-mail] and use the promo code nuthouse for 20% off your first purchase.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Getting AT&T's best deal on a Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra made me realize I do deserve the best. Like this bubble bath with fancy soap and even this face mask.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Learn how new and existing AT&T customers can get the new Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra with Galaxy AI for $0 with eligible trading. Any condition requires trading of Galaxy S24 Plus Z Fold 5 or newer installment plan and eligible wireless plan. Minimum $60 a month before discounts for AT&T value 2.0 subject to change. Visit att.comsamsung for details.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If you shout how about them Cowboys? You have that undeniable passion that's the heart of Cowboys Nation. And if you like to drink Dr. Pepper, you love the unique blend of its 23 flavors together. You're one of a kind fandom paired with the one of a kind. A kind taste of a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper is the game day lineup that can't be beat. Better yet, gather Your Cowboys and Dr. Pepper fan friends to watch the next game and crack open a delicious ice cold Dr. Pepper for everyone. The wins will be even tastier. It's a Pepper thing.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Cowboys fans, we've got big news. Black Rifle Energy is now available at Texas Seven Eleven stores and for a limited time you can score two cans for just $6 at participating locations. These cans pack a serious punch, 200 milligrams of caffeine, veteran crafted flavor and the clean energy you need to power through those long days. So the next time you roll into your neighborhood, 711 here in Texas, grab that two for six dollar black rifle energy deal and fuel up the American way. Black Rifle Coffee. America's coffee.

[Kyle Yeomans]

How's it going? You see that Cowboys game? Oh, I watched. Been seeing some good things. Totally. They have some tactics.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yep.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Some great talent and they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody by the way.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm Travis.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Nice to meet you Travis. Go Cowboys. Go Cowboys. Make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation

[Josh Rodriguez]

Back to talking Cowboys. All right, welcome back into our our discussion that has lasted three segments worth. Patrick, what would it take for you to give up 20 to another player or to another team?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Again, I asked 12 or 20 who's on the phone and what players are on the board. Board. This is not a cut and dry. It's not a cut and dry answer.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What do you what's the COVID Conversation starts with I need the at least this in return. What is it?

[Kyle Yeomans]

If you where you.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You asked who's still on the board.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Who's still on the board at 20?

[Isaiah Stanback]

At 20? No, no, no.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's starting at 12.

[Patrick No See Walker]

He wants to reach and go grab

[Kyle Yeomans]

somebody in this scenario.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I don't see if I Want to reach. I don't foresee Dallas reaching from 12 to go grab somebody. I see them sticking at 12, but after 12, they might reach from 20 to maybe 15 or 16. If you're a team and you're sitting at 16, right. And Dallas calls you, a conversation starts

[Kyle Yeomans]

at what I want your second round pick.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You need more than that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I know, but that's. You said the conversation starts at what I'm gonna say. It is.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So I'm. So we're swapping.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We're swapping 16 until start of the conversation and you get the swapping and you. Second round pick. That's the starter of the conversation. That's the.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Come on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What.

[Isaiah Stanback]

You're good with that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I'm saying come on. Like we. What are we trying to do here? We're trying to revamp the defense. Adding depth is great. I love that question. But adding depth should have happened a while ago.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Should have happened.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We shouldn't be talking about depth at 20.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Exactly.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I'm not.

[Isaiah Stanback]

We should be talking about cornerstones depth.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I'm talking about having talent across the. The board. What we tend to do whenever draft comes around is we want to get that one dog, right. That one guy that we absolutely know. But in order, sometimes when you're sitting at 12, to have that absolute dog, you got to give up some of your other pieces that would have allowed for you to spread the talent out evenly. You don't want to find yourself back. I think Dallas, the Cowboys organization is getting away from having just that one premier guy and not having anybody else across the board that can make contributions. I think that they're headed towards having talented guys all across the defense that can make contributions from every angle. Instead of saying, Josh, we got to worry about that guy right there. Let's figure out a way to shut him down and then we're good everywhere else. I don't think that's what they want. I don't think they want that anymore.

[Isaiah Stanback]

No. And I agree with you. I think they're. I think we're all on the same page. Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Way.

[Isaiah Stanback]

But I think a trade from 20 to 15, 16, like at that point, just stick and pick, man. At that point, if anything, you want to trade before 12.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Stanback]

If anything.

[Josh Rodriguez]

None of us.

[Isaiah Stanback]

Anything.

[Josh Rodriguez]

None of us are standing here saying they're one dog away.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Right.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Nobody is saying that.

[Isaiah Stanback]

They're at least.

[Patrick No See Walker]

They're.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're probably three, four guys. But to go from cornerstone guys, to

[Patrick No See Walker]

go from 12 to 6, Kyle is going to take more than a second rounder, let's see.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, that's the like, that's the points that like, work out together in the 12.

[Kyle Yeomans]

12 is valued. 1200 points. 5, which is, well, 6. Cleveland is value at 1600 points. 400 point difference. Cleveland's second round pick is worth 5, 10.

[Josh Rodriguez]

You can make it work.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You can make it work.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's what I'm saying.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You could make it work.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I don't, I don't.

[Kyle Yeomans]

They're going to look at you and be like, hey, this is a slight overpay. You can make it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Are you keeping 20 then, at that point?

[Isaiah Stanback]

So you want to trade up from 12, right? You want to trade up from 12?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. The conversation starts at 6. I'm not going to 3 because that's, that's where we would get in to what Isaiah is talking about of wagering your future. Yeah, I don't think you're wagering your future if you, if you're flipping 12 and 24, 6 and 30, 39, that. That doesn't hurt you as much as it would if you're wagering this year, next year, a player, whatever it may be, to move up to three and then go get a guy that you might want. No, no, no. See what happens in the first five picks. If one of those six names is going to be there, whichever one you value the highest, then you get on the phone and see if you can work something out. Do. Don't get overpaid or overtaxed or whatever it may be. Don't do something dumb. But if it's within realm of possibility and you're not going to wager your entire draft to do it, go get yourself a dog. That's where I'm at. Okay. I'm not just wagering everything to wager.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I like your approach. I just don't think that other teams are going to receive it that way.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Well, the problem is Cleveland has already been vocal about wanting to trade out, though. That's why that's been a conversation.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Also, the problem was you were never going to fill all of these needs in the draft, which is why you needed to attack free agency a certain way, which is why it's unfortunate that it's April 9th and you haven't addressed the line, haven't been able to address the linebacker situation.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We're in this spot because there you go.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So there you go.

[Josh Rodriguez]

If they would have addressed free agency the way that I think all of us anticipated them, you wouldn't address it. We wouldn't be having this.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We wouldn't have the 20th pick, we'd

[Josh Rodriguez]

say, wow, what is 12 going to be and what is 20 going to be? Now you got to maneuver to make it happen.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Still might still mind two weeks.

[Josh Rodriguez]

They're two weeks away.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Two weeks.

[Josh Rodriguez]

All right, that does it for us here on Talking cowboys. Hope you had fun. We're going to be back at our normal time next week. Week 10am Tuesday. Be there, be square. Yeah. Scare money, don't make money. For Patrick no see Walker For Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah late stand back for Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Y saying so long from Talking Cowboys brought to you by Standbacks Bees. Chris this has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

[Isaiah Stanback]

It's tax season, and by now we're all a bit tired of numbers. But here's an important one you need to $16 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud. But it's not all grim news. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second and alerts you to threats you could easily miss on your own own. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com iheart Terms apply.