Talkin’ Cowboys: The Grand Scheme?

Summary

Talkin’ Cowboys: The Grand Scheme?

Podcast: Talkin' Cowboys
Episode Date: February 3, 2026
Hosts: Kyle Youmans, Patrik “No Ce” Walker, Josh Rodriguez (Isaiah Stanback absent)
Recording Location: Dallas Cowboys World Headquarters, The Star, Frisco

Episode Overview

This offseason episode centers around the Dallas Cowboys' coaching changes, potential schematic shifts on defense, personnel evaluation, and early draft strategies. The hosts dive deep into the impact of new coaching hires, what fans should expect from the upcoming draft and free agency, and how the Cowboys might approach a possible move to more multiple or odd-man fronts (i.e., a 3-4 defensive look). Lively banter, fan calls, and reflections on the Shrine Bowl and Senior Bowl rounds out the show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Returning From Senior Bowl & Early Offseason Vibes

• Kyle returns from the Senior Bowl, highlighting the value of meeting prospects and getting a feel for their character, not just watching film.

• Quote:

  "Everybody's got the film at this point, ...But our access within the building and within the organization is different. We get to kind of get to know these guys a little bit." — Kyle (03:00)

• The crew jokes about Texas' dominance in football, Southern football rivalries, and how Texas, Georgia, and Florida are prime “farm states” for NFL talent.

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2. Cowboys Coaching Staff Overhaul

Notable New Hires & Candidates

• Christian Parker (New Defensive Coordinator) building his staff with:

  • Ryan Smith: Officially hired as defensive backs/secondary coach (from Arizona).
  • Derrick Ansley: Former Packers pass game coordinator—pending official confirmation, but widely reported.
  • Marcus Dixon: Former Vikings defensive line coach under Brian Flores, now signed.
  • Still interviewing for additional positions, including:
    • Ronnell Williams (Eagles assistant LB coach)
    • Robert Livingston (Colorado DC)
    • CJ Iu (Texas Tech OLB coach—known for developing draft talent)
    • Eric Henderson (USC, co-DC & D-line)
    • Denzel Martin (Steelers OLB coach)
    • Chidera Uzo-Diribe (Georgia OLB coach, from the Kirby Smart/Nick Saban coaching tree)

• Hosts discuss a significant trend: nearly all position coach candidates specialize in outside linebackers rather than true defensive ends, signaling an impending schematic change.

• Quotes:

  "We're going to talk about this in a moment: Outside linebackers coach, outside linebackers coach, notice not once did I say defensive end coach. Wink, wink." — Patrik (11:55)

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3. Scheme Tectonics: Expecting a Switch to Odd-Man Fronts

• The hosts note that the personnel moves and coaching hires indicate a serious exploration of switching to a 3-4 base or at least using more multiple fronts on defense.

• The team wonders about the current roster's “fit” for this new direction, outlining key players who might thrive:

  • DeMarvion Overshown, Shamar James: Could stand up as OLBs.
  • Marist Liufau: Nickel/situational coverage linebacker.
  • Sam Williams: Could transition as a 3-4 edge (AS Raku)

• Both Josh and Patrik agree:

  "You have the entirety of free agency and the upcoming draft...But it starts with knowing who the coaching staff is and knowing what framework the scouts need to be looking toward." — Patrik (15:14)

• Acknowledgment that full personnel rebuild in one offseason is tough but starting from a “scheme-first” approach is logical and overdue.

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4. Defensive Personnel: Holes to Fill and Player Evaluations

• Defensive tackle is now a position of strength—a drastic change from a year ago.
• Cornerback and safety remain glaring concerns, with questions about Trayvon Diggs' future and the readiness of younger prospects like Savion Revel.
• Several linebackers and DBs (Marist Liufau, DeMarvion Overshown, Shamar James) could see increased snaps, especially with coaching turnover possibly ending favoritism/politics (19:28).
• Key takeaway: Defensive overhaul is likely, particularly at linebacker and in the secondary.

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5. Draft Philosophy and Trade Scenarios

(Fan call & Analysis, 29:47–35:44)

• Caller Hoodie Kush asks: Should Cowboys trade back from pick 20 to accrue more day two assets?

• Host Positions:

  • All three recommend "stick and pick" at 12 and 20, barring an exceptional value presented by a trade-back in the mid-20s range.
  • No expected move up from 12; value clusters between picks 5–20 and then another dense group 20–50.
  • Draft process discussion includes using the first round for immediate impact defenders and favoring flexibility.

• Quotes:

  "You traded Micah Parsons. This is why you did it. You want those two first-round picks, please use them." — Josh (31:05)
  "I'm fine with sticking and picking at 12 and 20. Most certainly at 12. Don't move from 12. ...But once you get around 20, look at the board, answer the phone...and just be fluent is what I'm saying." — Patrik (33:17)

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6. Addressing the George Pickens Contract Situation

(35:57–39:48)

• George Pickens tells the media he “would love to stay” but “can’t control it,” implying Cowboys are negotiating with his representation rather than him directly.
• Interpreted as a positive sign—Pickens is open to a team-friendly deal, but hosts agree a franchise tag is likely a placeholder until a long-term deal is hammered out this summer.
• Quote:

  "It feels as if he's saying this is the best that he hopes it works out for." — Patrik (37:08)

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7. Supplemental Talent & Hope for Player Growth

• Troy from Amarillo calls in, echoing the need for multiple key additions across the defense, much like Detroit's rebuild.

• Hosts stress that while overhauling in one year is unlikely, a successful draft class and second-year leaps from guys like Savion Revel and DeMarvion Overshown could move the needle.

• Quote:

  "It's almost impossible to overhaul a defense in one summer, but it's possible to take steps in the right direction." — Kyle (41:42)

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8. Shrine Bowl & Senior Bowl Standouts (47:45–52:53)

• Patrik & Kyle run down prospects who flashed during all-star games, focusing on potential Cowboys fits:
  • Mason Ryger (Edge, Wisconsin) – dominant Shrine Bowl showing
  • Wesley Williams (Edge, Duke), Keshan James Newby (Edge, New Mexico) – honorable mentions
  • Shat Banks (LB, UTSA), “motor was great...playing like his hair was on fire"
  • Brent Austin (CB, Cal) – raw but traits
  • Cole Wisniewski (S, Texas Tech)
  • Landon Robinson (IDL, Navy) – smaller, but “showed out all week long”
• Notably, no DTs included in Patrik’s "Shrine Bowl standouts for the Cowboys" article:

  "That wasn't because they didn't show out. It's because ... it doesn't make sense for the Cowboys." — Patrik (52:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On coaching staff diversity:

  “Let's just hope that they're the best candidates. ...Black, white or indifferent, man...the fact that we went young speaks volumes of the changes that the Joneses feel they need to make." — Hoodie Kush, caller (28:35)

• On personnel vs. scheme:

  “When you don't have good players, there's no system that can make them better.” — Kyle (18:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Senior Bowl & Draft Prospects – 02:25–04:39
• Coaching Staff Updates – 06:52–11:24
• Defensive Scheme, Personnel Fit – 12:01–19:06
• Draft Trade Debate (Fan Call) – 29:47–35:44
• George Pickens Contract Discussion – 35:57–39:48
• Supplemental Talent & Defensive Rebuild (Fan Call: Troy) – 39:54–42:46
• Shrine Bowl & Senior Bowl Standouts – 47:45–52:53

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Flow and Tone Recap

The episode balances deep schematic football discussion with the light-hearted camaraderie typical of the "barbershop banter" brand. Hosts speak candidly about tough rebuild realities, but without doom and gloom—optimism persists if the Cowboys build the right coaching foundation and exercise draft/free agency savvy.

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Bottom Line

This episode delivers a detailed state-of-the-union for the Dallas Cowboys' offseason:

• New coaching vision is setting the stage for a possible 3-4 defensive transformation.
• Draft strategy will hinge on immediate impact selections, not trading down unless value is overwhelming.
• Player development and internal growth are just as crucial as free agency splashes.
• Fan questions underscore both optimism and the need for patience as Dallas undertakes a significant defensive reconstruction.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco CD Lamb.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Touchdown.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's on. Jake Ferguson. Prescott keeps it and he bangs it into touchdown. And now your hosts, Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Ymans. It's an offseason edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in, everybody. We've got the whole h. Almost the whole cast and crew ready for you to rock. We got three of those guys. We got Patrick no see Walker, Josh Rodriguez. I'm Kyle Yeomans with Chris Beam in the back. Welcome in everybody, as always, Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. Got my black rifle right here. Patrick's got it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Get you some there alone. Wait, wait. Is nerd girl asm or she.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, she's got to make sure she's in ready.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Hold on.

[Josh Rodriguez]

She said morning.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Let me. Okay, here we go. This. This is for you.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Get closer, get closer.

[Hoodie Kush]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Quality. Quality.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Do we have a lot of those in the back now or did you just pick that up on the way in?

[Patrick No See Walker]

No, Junior.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, I. I had them from Christmas. I forgot that they. They've been in there. You're welcome to grab one. You go for it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It is quite.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There are three of them in there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That might be. That might be needed later today. Go for it. A long day ahead. Sounds good. Good.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Black Rifle coffee. We can all share.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, you're right.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Damn right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sounds like a slogan ready to happen.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let's do it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. Good to be back. You guys had a great show last week. Missed you guys. I was out.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Missed you, man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Mobile with the Senior Bowl. Had a lot of fun out there and got to see. Put eyes to prospects. Get to really get to know a lot of those guys as well, which was cool.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's awesome, man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We'll dive into that. Yeah, they ended up being really cool. That I mean, some of those interviews were just incredible.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And that's not on our side. It's on the. The prospect side. Some of the stories and some of the things that you get to learn, and that's part of the draft process that I like, because everybody's got the film at this point, with YouTube and the streaming services that everybody has, like, you've got some type of film, whether it's all 22 or TV copy. So everybody can kind of evaluate players. But that's something that. I guess our access within the building and within the organization is different. We get to kind of get to know these guys a little bit, to.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Evaluate the character as well.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. And that's what these teams place a lot of stock into. Well, so we'll talk about that a little bit later.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I really enjoy listening to the draft show whenever you're interviewing these guys. And, like, it starts off as a very, like, kind of casual, like, getting to know you sort of thing.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like, what's the week been like?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Right, right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. The early questions.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But once they start to open up and have fun and, like, that's really the best part of those shows is whenever they're actually, like, joking around and like, okay, this is a chill. Because I'm sure they're on alert at all times.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

During the draft process, during the scouting process, that they're like, okay, well, I have to kind of be buttoned up here. But once they start talking to Kyle, they're like, okay.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. They always.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let's chill out a little bit. A comforting interviewer.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Thank you. I appreciate it. The first thing I tell them is like, hey, we're just going to have a conversation. That's all it is. This isn't an interview. This isn't a job interview. Let's just have a conversation. And I think Nick Harris does a really good job at that, too. Of one.

[Patrick No See Walker]

He.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He knows a lot of those guys, too. Like, he's either covered them before or watched them in certain situations before. So he always does a nice job of kind of opening up with those guys and getting them to kind of go deep into their past, too. Because, I mean, out of the guys that we interviewed, probably eight or nine prospects for the draft show last week, and I think six of the eight or nine were all Texas guys. Wow. So it's like, there's a lot of talent around here, and we've gotten a chance to see them grow up a little bit as well. And Texas is the most represented state in the super bowl as well.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Shocker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right. Not shocker.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. I mean, quality football gets played in Texas. I will say that.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's the law.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Object.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Objectively speaking, I mean, this is objective. This is. No, this is just fun. Southern rivalry, right? Southern rivalry. We're not, we're not here for that California football talking.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Although California does have a good football program as far as bringing kids up through the ranks. But when you're talking about good old fashioned southern football, it's Georgia, it's Texas, you know, it's Florida. Florida, absolutely. Florida.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Especially south Florida.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

What about Princeton?

[Patrick No See Walker]

So, yeah, Florida, Georgia, Texas, those are your good farm states as far as, like where you start the kids out young and you bring them up through the programs, you know, and a lot of times that's why you have so many quality Texas football kids that go to young men, turn to young men, turn to grown men and, you know, they, they become all Americans and, you know, they find their way into the league. And the same for, you know, Georgia talent, same for Florida talent. So just thankful that that talent that grows up in Florida, departs Florida, goes to Georgia and goes to Georgia.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I did have fun. One of the guys that I, I wouldn't mind Dallas at least exploring in the first round out of the UGA Bulldogs, Dalen Everett. Talked to him last week. He was great. He was, he was great on and off the camera. He was really cool. And we, we chatted for maybe two minutes before the interview and then we knocked out the interview and then he stayed and chatted like another two and a half, three minutes after the interview.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Which he didn't have football iq.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, very smart kid.

[Patrick No See Walker]

He'll do well in the league. Did you get a chance to. Even if a sidebar with cj. Was CJ there? Nah, CJ wasn't there. Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But a couple guys to keep an eye on and we may get to see him at the combine here in a couple of weeks.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, we will, because we will be there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You're darn right we did book our travel, baby.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Let's go in the books.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Let's go, Indy. Let's go.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Hopefully. Swell time.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I can't wait.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Stay right back here.

[Patrick No See Walker]

UNT football. Georgia football. Coming to Indy for the combine.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Why UNT football?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Wait, why are we, why are we trying to segue? Okay, because we were talking Texas football, Georgia football, so I specified the university.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay, you know, we'll keep going. Let's get the news and notes here.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Patrick, give you an opportunity to, you know, get to green and call. But you didn't take it go mean Green. So quite a bit of news and notes. Most of it is kind of a recap. So let's just leave with. Let's just shrink it to the most important which is who is on board. We touched base on this last week, but definitely reconfirming that Ryan Smith is in the building. He is officially hired pen to paper as the Cowboys new defensive back sat slash secondary coach. So he's in there. Keep in mind he's coming from Arizona as their former pass game coordinator and their cornerbacks coach. So good get for Christian Parker. And man, I got to say Christian Parker is off to the races. He's not wasting any time.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Not at all.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But also in not wasting any time, he's also being exceptionally thorough. We credited Brian Schottenheimer for being thorough in the candidacy interview interviews for defensive coordinator nine candidates. Man, Christian Parker, he's. His net is even wider. Yeah, arguably. So in addition to Ryan Smith, Derek Ansley, former Packers pass game coordinator, he is now pen to paper. He is officially in the building. His contract is officially signed. Waiting to confirm this, but pertard Archer, which is a damn good credible source for information.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Arguably yes.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. So I'm waiting.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Todd's like, wait, what's the argument?

[Josh Rodriguez]

The joke is you can argue anything.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know what I mean?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Dallas Cowboys are from Dallas and it's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like oh, Frisco, the Arlington first.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Arguably, yes, arguably. It's a good point. Shouts out to Archer you could argue anything. You could. Doesn't mean you need to, but you could.

[Josh Rodriguez]

This is fair.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. So I'm waiting to make this get this officially confirmed from upstairs. Came right into the podcast. So follow Twitter Voice at the Star. We'll get you that information. And the tracker, you should have the tracker bookmark.com you should have the tracker bookmarked. All things is being updated daily. So as soon as I get that made official for Ansley, that will be updated as well. But we also have that the Cowboys have agreed to terms with Marcus Dixon.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Wow.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Who they interviewed a couple of times. One virtually one in person over the past weekend. Marcus Dixon is not only in the building, he is officially not leaving the building because now he has work to do. Vik former Vikings defensive line coach under one Brian Flores. I like and we do love some Brian Flores. So Marcus Dixon is definitely in the building as well. And needless to say, he knows how to coach some football. He played football. He was a former assistant defensive line coach for the Rams, defensive line coach for the Broncos before joining Brian Flores as defensive line coach for the Vikings. That is another big get for the Cowboys. And we're waiting to see which of these other guys are going to potentially land deals obviously pending right now. Ronnell Williams, Eagles assistant linebackers coach who else we got? We got Robert Livingston, Colorado defensive coordinator, and we got a new entrant into the contest for position coach. CJ iu, Texas Tech offensive line. Excuse me, outside linebackers coach. Interesting.

[Josh Rodriguez]

So outside linebackers.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Outside linebackers coach. We will talk about that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Guys in the draft that are really good from Texas Tech, there's a guy named David Bailey who's going to be a first round pick. There's a guy named Romello Height, that's going to be a first round pick. I think he coached both of those guys. And then there's a linebacker, not an outside linebacker, but a Mike linebacker named Josh Rodriguez who could be a first, second or third round pick. Who really knows where he's going to go right now? I don't know. I just think that's worth pointing out.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It is very much worth pointing out.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Just thought I'd.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You got some new entrants, Josh or Jacob?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Is it Josh?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Did I say Josh? You just said, oh, Kyle Jacob Rodriguez. Congratulations, dude, you're going in the draft.

[Josh Rodriguez]

My play days are behind me, Kyle.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sorry, no Jacob Rodriguez. My bad.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Looks like you could line up and throw some bodies around.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I did one pulling play for the little M. Lobo and they were like, all right, let's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's gonna be better as a webmaster one day.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Damn good webmaster in movie review.

[Josh Rodriguez]

But as soon as they put me on a pull play, they're like, that.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Guy looks like a film critic.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Get after it, C.J.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Good thing they had scouts at film school. University, baby. That's all I'm saying.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Cjiu Texas Tech outside linebackers coach. He is now a candidate for a position coaching role under Christian Parker, as is Eric Henderson, USC co defensive coordinator, run game coordinator and defensive line coach. Eric Henderson does quite a bit out there for the Trojans, so we know Denzel Martin, Steelers outside linebackers coach. You're going to hear this quite a bit because in all of the candidates that I named, and we're going to talk about this in a moment. Outside linebackers coach. Outside linebackers coach. Outside linebackers coach. Notice not once did I say defensive end coach. Wink, wink. We'll get to that in a second.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Odd man front.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Odd man front. And one more new entrant. Fourth new entrant is from Athens. Oh, the Cowboys have Scheduled an in person interview with Kirby Smart. Why you do that?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh, sorry.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Why don't you just ask?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Because now it's now. Now whenever I drop the name, it's like, is this hit the same.

[Julian Edelman]

Okay.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No, but he's from the Kirby Smart tree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And that's a pretty big deal. Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Which comes from the Nick Saban truth.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That is true. So Chadero Uzo Deribe, he is the linebackers coach for Georgia. Which linebackers coach? The outside linebackers coach. Sensing the thing, Patrick, Can I say it?

[Josh Rodriguez]

You can say it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Go dogs. Now, whenever you're reaching into the Georgia coaching ranks, particularly at linebacker position coaching, then you're starting to look at number one. I'm just going to say it. All right. C.J. even though C.J. is off the ball linebacker, he's a middle. Okay. He's a Mike. He's not an on ball. He's not defensive end, doesn't rush the pastor. However, there's obviously that. That relationship that's there. But I will also say, because I know a lot of people on Twitter, once that news dropped via Todd Archer, again, shout out to Todd Archer. A lot of people saying, you know, well, you know, Pat, no, see, what is. What does this guy bring? What does he do? I can tell you quite simply if you've ever been impressed with the ability of the defensive line to get after the quarterback when you're watching Georgia, this is why you would love to have this type of guy here right into rebate. So I want to see how far that goes. But those are your new entrants and the ones who have been confirmed. Ryan Smith, Derek Ansley, Marcus Dixon, welcome to the program.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Okay, so let's turn this thing around a little bit. We've already alluded to it here. You're looking at outside linebackers. So very interesting reading, the tea leaves here and even just from the schematics and from the coaching tree that Christian Parker comes from as a defensive coordinator now in his first stint as a D core coordinator, you would anticipate an odd man front, right?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And that was kind of part of it. Does this personnel in Dallas fit the need as an odd man front or is there going to be a lot of moving and shaking that needs to happen?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I think there's going to be a lot of moving, shaking, but also definitely they have their mindset on free agency in the draft to really fill in a lot of those gaps. I think you have linebackers right now that could possibly fit maybe that transition to a 3, 4 or using multiple fronts, which Brian Schottenheimer has been a proponent of since he became a coach. He's been saying multiples. Yeah, he said that multiple times. Now you're actually seeing it. This is the clearest indication of that change. But you currently have long explosive athletes who need to live, who don't need to live with their hand in the dirt transitioning guys to stand up outside linebackers. Consider Demarvian overshone. Consider Shamar James as a sort of stand up assignment, limited outside linebacker.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'd love to see him, him in that role.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Seriously. Right. And situational blitzer. Right. And then think of Maris Leofow in passing situations as like a nickel linebacker. I think you have the personnel that could make it work, but you obviously need to improve the personnel across the board.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And I agree. I don't think that as we have this conversation that you have the personnel to run that front, but we're having that conversation on February 3rd. You have the entirety of free agency and the, the upcoming draft and then of course some of the spillover after draft. How do you handle the free agents that the mercenaries that didn't get signed before then. How do you handle that? Because keep in mind you had a guy like Jadevion Clown, he didn't come in until right when the seat right after the season had begun. So you have some mercenaries there, by the way, Sanja Davion, quickly. But you have to go and get them. But it starts with knowing who the coaching staff is and knowing what framework the scouts need to be looking toward as far as bringing the personnel in. It does. It doesn't need to start the other way around. Otherwise you find yourself in an ear flu situation where you have this personnel. But then you, you want hire a coach. But the coach, their scheme and their framework doesn't work with the personnel, nor are they willing to be versatile enough to adapt to the personnel. That's when you run into problems. I like how the Cowboys are handling it right now. They say, hey, we're going to get Christian Parker. They look at Christian and they say, hey, what do you want to run and what coaching staff do you need to run it? Let's, let's build that out. First they're building that out and then they look at the roster and say, you know what? We have some pieces we know will fit like a demo, for example. And I will say this. I think as Rocco would look, look great in a three, four.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He'd be fine.

[Patrick No See Walker]

He'd be fine. Because if you look at his build, his build Although it's. There's a little bit more mass on him there than there is the marvel Nova shown. But physically they're about the same height, same wingspan, similar. So I could see AS Raku thriving in that front.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And the main thing you have to worry about when you're Transitioning from a 43 to 34 is going to be your interior defensive line, which I think at this point feel good. Right now you feel pretty darn good about it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Man, listen. I say man, listen because life comes at you fast, right? A year ago we're having this conversation and outside of the concerns at cornerback, the biggest concern we had was defensive tackle. Now we're sitting here February 3, 2026 and we're popping collars and brass. We're like, ah, defensive tackle. Who's worried about that?

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know, I think in years past if this was the conversation of, oh, we're going to switch from 43 to 3 4, even though I know there's multiples and Dallas ran some odd at certain times under Matt Eberfluz.

[Patrick No See Walker]

2.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Just the majority of the time it was 4. Yeah, and a lot of those fives. All of that to be said, I think if it was this conversation in years past, we probably would have been hesitant to say it's a good thing. What was the conversation even prior to hiring a defensive coordinator? Is it the coordinator or is it the personnel?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

We had that argument. Is this personnel good enough to execute whatever defensive coordinator is going to be able to bring in at some point in time? I think the argument is probably not. At some point you look at it and say multiple defensive coordinators have struggled, maybe the personnel is just not very good. So what do you do to change that? You up in the personnel and that's what they're trying to do. Is it a harder task to do in one off season? Absolutely. It is tough. Tougher to do that than to build off of what you already have. Not to say that it's a complete reset, but you're going to have to turn over plenty of individuals to make a switch like this, a full time switch like this happened. But I think this is the right time to do it because you get to build from the ground up, knowing that you have a piece here, a piece there, a superstar here, a really good player there, but then everybody else, it depends on how you fit into the system and then you find a way to do it. I've never been a proponent in the past. One of the things that Dan Quinn did was he fit his system to the players. But when you don't have good players, there's no system that can make them better.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So I do think there's a way you can up in both of these things and marry the two in one off season. It's just going to be a tough task to do.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. And I think we talked about last week, Kyle, when we were talking about the expectations of the defense that you have. Granted, you're turning over the coaching staff. You're going to have some of the same personnel. There's. You can't get around everybody. Right. You can't turn around the whole thing. Nor necessarily do you want to. I think there are a lot of players that are currently on your defense that didn't get a fair shake last season because of performance and because of.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You mentioned a couple of them.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Favoritism.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I mean Marisley Afoul is one of those guys where like you probably don't want to move on from him. But did he play well in 2025? No.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. But did he have a fair shape?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Exactly.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Maybe not.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That was a victim of politics basically. Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. I think there was some favoritism as the linebackers room last year. So at least for me, I think you have a better chance with an overhaul of the coaching staff to give those players, those sort of tent pole players a better chance at succeeding this year while also increasing competition and getting guys through free agency, through the draft that provides that competition that gives you the best players that are on the field.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You're going to have to do a lot of work on your defensive personnel.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Tons of season.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Just. That's the perfect word for a ton, a ton of it. Because outside of defensive tackle, you're not really confident much much anywhere else. Right. Defensive end, like I said, you go to an odd man front I think is Rocco can thrive in that. So I like what I see there. But. But outside of that, who else is helping you rush the passer there? Right. You got to figure that out. Linebacker. I do believe Maris Leophile was a victim of politics and favoritism last season. So we'd like to see him back out there getting more snaps. But TBD on that. DeMarvo Nova shown he can be an absolute game changer. But availability TBD on that. Right. Outside of those two guys, Shamar James, I think he's going to take a huge step forward especially with if they bring in the correct position coach at linebacker for that young man, I think he'll excel.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And if they put him in the right situation.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Like we're talking about, I mean, all of his traits say that he's a situational blitzer.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And Marisley felt, like we said, he's a coverage linebacker. I mean, if you put these guys in the best situations for the player, not just the system, I think you're going to thrive.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And I will say this real quick, Kyle, because for those that aren't aware of Cowboys crosstalk, which is a great show, by the way. Leighton Vander Esch was featured on it recently, and Vanderish had nothing but put stellar praise for what he sees from Shemar James and. And his upside. So when you have a guy who is as talented as Leighton Vanderesh, keep in mind the only reason Layton Vanderesh is not in the league is medically, not because he couldn't play ball. Because, man, when he was healthy, he could play some damn ball. Yeah, right. So when you hear, you know, former Cowboys veterans who played at a high level, Pro bowl level, praising a young man like that, Shemar James, during a year that was so unsettled as a whole defensively, that should tell you a lot there. But outside of those guys, I mean, defensive backs, we don't even have to get really into it. Safeties, you know, you need some help there. You got to rebuild that completely. Cornerback Trayvon Diggs is out of the building. We got concerns about Duron Bland's foot, Sivone Revel. We're confident that a full off season, he can take a step forward. Does that mean he immediately becomes a Pro Bowler next year? We're not saying that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Which means it'd be nice.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, be nice. But so many question marks, man. So you have some pieces, mostly defensive tackle. The rest, you gotta. You gotta give Christian Parker everything he needs. That's going to take a lot of work, but you got a lot of time. It's February.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It is a lot of time. It's not a lot of time at the same time.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, that's true.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know, it's already begun.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Shrine bowl and Senior bowl scouts are out there.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You got to get after it a little bit. And I think that's where this was such a coveted job by defensive coordinators. It was across the league. And even going to the Senior bowl and having conversations with other organizations, they said the same thing. Like that was a highly coveted job because you have individuals that you can build around, young talent. And a big, big plus in terms of your guys interior wise, with Quinn and Williams and with Kenny Clark. Yeah, I mean, people want to have your interior lines stacked like that. They have it. But then you also have the expectations aren't to be one of the top 10 defenses in the league.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We talked about the last.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You just got to be a halfway.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Point, decent defense, 15, 16.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And then all of a sudden your offense hopefully takes a step forward and you're making, making moves. So something to keep an eye on as we move forward. We'll continue to break down coaching changes and such as they come along, but when we come back on talking Cowboys, we're going to take your phone calls. Hey, I know it's the off season. Yeah, we're okay. We're going to hear you 888-855-2297. We're going to hear you and what you want to talk about with the Dallas Cowboys when we come back with more right after this.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Call me now.

[Rob Gronkowski]

This is Julian Edelman from Games with Names. Now let's get into the serious stuff. We're talking football food, specifically Daisy French onion dip.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That is serious.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Gotta try these delicious new dips from Daisy. These are so delicious. They're like homemade dips made with real herb and spices and other ingredients you'll find in your kitchen. Also made with some Daisy sour cream. Daisy sour cream is a long standing staple for Taco Tuesday.

[Kyle Yeomans]

You know what I do when I get my street burrito? I get the squirt Daisy. Yeah. And every bite. I know you. I know you.

[Rob Gronkowski]

I'm a huge sour cream guy. I love sour cream. So I think burritos can't live without sour cream.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I completely agree with that.

[Rob Gronkowski]

They also have Daisy ranch dip. I love ranch diploma.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It was great.

[Rob Gronkowski]

I love it with crackers, wings, plain potato chip, the ones with the little crinkles, maybe some bell peppers. So get out there and give Daisy French onion dip a try. You will not regret it.

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[Patrick No See Walker]

How's it going? You see that Cowboys game? Oh, I watched. Been seeing some good things. Totally. They have some talent.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yup.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Some.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Some great talent.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody by the way, I'm Travis. Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys. Go Cowboys.

[Julian Edelman]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Patrick No See Walker]

Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here providing the tools, expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you get the job done right. We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you.

[Julian Edelman]

We're united at, AT and T. We guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the vet.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It hey, yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I can't believe he ate the whole.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Thing of chicken wings.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I can't believe we're staging a comeback.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Touchdown.

[Julian Edelman]

Yes, Staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers must be connected to impacted tower at onset of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply. CT.com guarantee for full details.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Back to Talking Cowboys. Here. It's your time. Call us now. Let's unwind Talking Tuesday. Talking through the spotlights way. Just for you, it's a Talking Tuesday. It's been a minute since we've had that intro. Talking Tuesday here on this offseason edition of Talking Cowboys. Glad you're with us. The segment is brought to you by Invisalign. The official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. And we're smiling because we've got hoodie cushion the base boys on the line. What up?

[Hoodie Kush]

What's going on, gentlemen? How's everybody today?

[Kyle Yeomans]

Doing great. How are you?

[Josh Rodriguez]

Wonderful.

[Hoodie Kush]

Good, man. I'm just making some shrimp and grits for the lady. Hey, Josh, just so you know, bro, don't Sell yourself so short. Okay.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I think you would be a great.

[Hoodie Kush]

Outside linebacker slash dt.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Thank you very much.

[Hoodie Kush]

I think you would be great. All right. Keep doing your movie thing, but yeah, I think you would be great. So one of my biggest. One of my biggest things was throughout this off season was hearing, oh well, we need to hire a. A certain demographic of coaching me personally. Black, white, are indifferent, man. Let's just hope that they're the best candidates. Yeah, that's one of my biggest things. I just wanted the best candidate, whether it have been Christian Parker or Jim Leonard or Jim Schwartz. And I just wanted the best candidate for us. And the fact that we went young speaks volumes of the changes that the Joneses feel they need to make. Throwing a little draft in there. I would like to have Mr. Not Josh Rodriguez, but you know, the other Rodriguez for my Texas A M. Do you guys think that. That moving back at 20 would be the best option in order to get more picks for day two or sticking and sticking and picking where we are would. Would do better.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Appreciate you. Hoodie Kush. Two great questions.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Great call, man.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm gonna start with draft just since it was. You too, man. You too.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Now we're gonna start by saying enjoy those damn shrimp.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah, man.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. Legendary combo just made me hungry and mediocre.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Starting with draft just since it was the most recent question there. Jacob Rodriguez out of Texas Tech, great linebacker. I think there are better ones available for you at 12 or 20. If you wanted to trade back, I would trade back from 20. And that's only if you have a contingency of guys that you feel really confident in and you would be able to get back in the top 100, which you could do and it's happened before, but you can't go super far down the list. I would still want to have at least the first round pick or at least an early second round pick where you can kind of sleep on your board a little bit going into day two and pick up a third round at the same time. And that's. You're going to have to have have a hefty price and a dance partner that wants to come up and grab a prospect. So there's a couple options. We've talked about it a few times on the draft show. We'll probably hit it again as we get closer. I don't know if Jacob Rodriguez would be the target there. If he is. If it is a trade back option, but I think there you're going to get two guys that could immediately be impact players on your defense at 12 and 20. So I don't think I would, I would trade back.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, I think you stick and pick at this point. You traded Micah Parsons. This is why you didn't it. You want those two first round picks, please use them. My only caveat to that is if all of your first round talent is off the board by 20, I mean for whatever reason, because that happens, you know, obviously. And if the best player available there isn't the value of a first round pick, sure, I would move out of it and get yourself a day two pick which you currently don't have. But right now, stick and pick. Yeah, give me the best two players you can find in both defenses.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yes.

[Josh Rodriguez]

45 over.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Would not be upset at sticking and picking 12 and 20. I definitely say stick and pick at 12, 20. Depends on who's on the phone. If someone's on the phone, let's say, what do we got? Cleveland at 24, Chicago at 25. I'd be willing to entertain going down from 20 to the mid 20s if that fielded me a third round pick of some sort.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Late 20s by bye bye. No, you're not, I'm not picking up the phone for any late 20s, you know what I'm saying? Mid-20s.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No, you're picking up the phone to hear what they're saying and then I'm good. It just, for me it just depends on who's on the line because again, if I depending on how the board is falling and I, I stayed at 12 and I made my pick at 12, so that means I got my guy, right? I got my first guy. If how my board is falling versus how the draft is going, if my second guy is still there at like 19 and then I'm looking at who's behind me and you, you look at, you know, Pittsburgh and the Chargers and Philly and you say to yourself, well, they're not, they're likely not going to take my guy. I'm willing to fall back to 24, 25. I'm willing to fall back to 24, 25 if the, you know, if it's Chicago or Cincinnati or whomever and they're like, okay, give us that 20, we'll give you a third round pick if you're willing to do that. And my guy is still falling like I think he will and he'll still be there around 24, 25. That's a win, win, win for me.

[Dr Pepper Announcer]

Yeah.

[Patrick No See Walker]

So that's what I mean. So I'm fine with sticking and picking at 12 and 20. Most certainly at 12. Don't move from 12. No, but once you get around 20, look at the board, answer the phone, look at how the draft is going and just be fluent is what I'm saying.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Do you think there's a world where the Cowboys move up at all from 12?

[Patrick No See Walker]

No, I don't think there's.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, not at all. Probably not for who downs.

[Kyle Yeomans]

No.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I would rather take the shot that he slides than to spin my picks.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And yeah, I don't see them doing that at all.

[Josh Rodriguez]

I'm just with fire there.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I'm playing around on one of these, these mock draft simulators. The Titans offered me pick 35 for 20.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But they threw in a second round pick and a third round pick next year.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No, no, no, no. It would have to be.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's what I'm saying, like this year. But that's the type of dance partner you would have to have. It's not going to be anybody there because. And we've had this conversation a couple times too, from about 5 to 20. There's not a ton of separation between these prospects. It's all very grouped together. Pick what you need here, take what you need there and see what happens. From about 20 to 50. It's starting to look like that's a group that's all together. So nobody's really going to be dancing around unless they have one of their upper echelon first round picks that are still available and they don't think they'll last to that spot.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Right.

[Kyle Yeomans]

So it would probably be further down, like a 30, early 30s type of pick. Somebody that may have already selected in the first round and then would have to give you quite the haul to get up there.

[Patrick No See Walker]

But let's see, because I'm looking at the draft value chart right now. Let's see. 20. The value on that is 850 points. Cleveland as one example. Cleveland is at 24, 740 points. If y', all, if you swapped, they take 20, you take 24, they'd still owe you 1 10. Where are they in the third? Cleveland.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It's a lot of math right off the dome here. Patrick, Keep going.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Dude, Cleveland wouldn't work because their, their 70th overall is too rich. It's worth 240. That means they have now it doesn't always break even. Some teams are just like, you know.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What, it's a first round tax.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Just take the extra 120 points or some odd. But that would be. So it looks like something like A Chicago at 20, 25 or Buffalo at 26 would be more feasible to be able to make that swap and then force them to give you a third round pick. Yeah, but those are the conversations I'd be willing to have as 20 approaches and. But I'm completely comfortable at 20. If I'm not hearing anything that's making me sit up and say, okay, now we're talking. Just stick and pick at 20 as well. Yeah, I just like the flexibility is all.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

888-855-2297. I believe we have a couple phone lines open and as we wait for you to give us a call. 888-855-2297. Got to hear from George Pickens and Dak Prescott yesterday.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yes, you did.

[Kyle Yeomans]

At the Pro Bowl, Tommy Yarish wrote an article he did on Dallas Cowboys dot com. If you haven't checked it out already, it is.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What are you doing?

[Josh Rodriguez]

It's on the dot com.

[Kyle Yeomans]

It is free. There's no paywall.

[Patrick No See Walker]

No paywall.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Couple ads, but no big deal.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The few. The feeling is mutual from Pickens to the front office. As is the front office to Pickens. George Pickens said on being asked if he would like to return to Dallas, he said, I would love to, but when you can't control it, you just kind of hope for the best.

[Josh Rodriguez]

That's a fair point. There's nothing wrong with it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Controversial.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There's no, there's no shade there.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Okay. None at all.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Let's keep going. Not me personally. When talking about if the Cowboys have reached out to him personally on a contract extension, which is probably a good thing. It is history.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It is a good thing. They're talking to the agent.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Definitely. Probably my agent. He doesn't tell me who calls all the time. So definitely just kind of wait it out and hope for the best. Second time he said that. So couple things there.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah. What's your interpretation, Kyle?

[Kyle Yeomans]

I have no problem with it.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. I'm just, I'm reading the quote.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I have an interpretation.

[Kyle Yeomans]

What's your interpretation?

[Patrick No See Walker]

He really wants to stay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I think he does.

[Patrick No See Walker]

The fact that he said. Keeps saying I we. I hope it works out for the best. It feels as if he's saying this is the best that he hopes it works out for. Yeah. So, I mean, this goes back to during the season, the, the, you know, know, the innumerable amount of times that he was asked about, you know, free agency and does he want to stay. And every single time he echoed that sentiment. He wants to remain with the Cowboys, but it is out of his control. And that's true. It's a true statement.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And Tommy Irish asked that question, what is the best? Mr. George Pickens, what do you feel like is the best? He said, just the ultimate best deal where it helps everybody. If it's the best thing for both parties, then I'm willing to do anything. But like I said, I can't control it. So I just kind of chill.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Listen, even, even that statement has to make Jerry Steven Jones smile. Whatever works best for both parties. And he wants to. It sounds as if. And I'm not going to say that because I want every player. I'm a player advocate. I want every player to get as much money as they can.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I know what you're going to say. Don't say it.

[Patrick No See Walker]

That being said, well, number one, let me just say I don't want to hear about no damn pie. So. But the good news is, is, and this is, I was having this conversation with a fan. This is funny in a fan with a fan at a gas station. Not two days ago.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Interesting.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Not two days ago I was buying some chips and he was like, hey, you know, see? And we just started talking.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Tostitos, right?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, Tostitos. They were delicious.

[Josh Rodriguez]

It was at a 7 11. Official sponsor of the Dallas Cowboy.

[Kyle Yeomans]

There you go. He had a black rifle, coffee in hand too. On his way out, the fan was.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Asking, he's like, so what do you think we are on this George Pickens thing? I said, I'll tell you this much. So often we hear Jerry Jones use the pie argument against, you know, how things might turn out, out when negotiating with a free agent. Jerry Jones has basically set that to the side every single time he's been asked about George Pickens. Every time they ask him about the salary cap. Oh, we can figure it out. We can fit. You never hear Jerry talk about this when it comes to salary cap versus signing a big money player. Yeah, I think that works in the favor of George Pickens. And then you hear George Pickens saying things like he wants it to work out for both parties involved, not just himself. Man, I think this deal gets done. Now, that being said, do I think the deal gets done by February 17, February 19? No, I think it can. I don't know that it necessarily will because there's a lot of moving parts when you're talking about a deal this large. I'm of the mindset, I think the Cowboys tag him, but I think the tag is to buy time until mid July to get the long term deal done. But then I think it gets done far Before July. I just don't know that it gets done before the tag window closes for all parties.

[Josh Rodriguez]

And I guess, selfishly, I just want the deal to get done as soon as possible just so we can stop talking about it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah.

[Josh Rodriguez]

George Pickens will be playing for the Dallas Cowboys.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Agreed.

[Patrick No See Walker]

I agree.

[Kyle Yeomans]

All right, let's take a call from Troy in Amarillo. Troy, you're on. Talk to the Cowboys. What's going on, my man?

[Troy Caller]

Oh, hey, man. Good to talk to you guys. You know, I was just thinking the other day, you know, and shout out to Kyle and to Bobby Belt, you know, for the draft show, but I'll. I'll tell you, man, we need a couple of drafts, kind of like Detroit had, you know, back to back. If we can do it, they may be tough then with this year's way, things are stacking up, but, you know, Bobby was right, man. You talk about, you know, two. Two ends, two linebackers, two, you know, two back end guys, and then maybe one or two safeties. You really need all that, man, you know, actually to make, and you're not going to be able to get it all this year. You're just not.

[Hoodie Kush]

I don't.

[Troy Caller]

I don't think you can do all that. If you have a couple of drafts, kind of like Detroit did a couple years back, you can actually make things happen. I bet. Will McClure, you know, these guys really have to hit on them, and I think they. I think they can. They really do.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah. Thank you for the call, Troy. I agree with you because he's referencing a moment on the draft show where Bobby outlined a checklist that included multiple players at almost every defensive position. And the checklist was to achieve prior to the draft. So that way you can draft best player available whenever the time comes. And it's a long list. There's a lot of work to do. It's kind of like what we talked about earlier. It's almost impossible to overhaul a defense in one summer, but it's possible to take steps in the right direction, and that's where the expectation is. Middle of the road for this Dallas defense, I do think you might see, and everybody's talking, or I've always said on the show, what have I always said on the show? Hope is not a strategy. But there are some things from this 2025 draft class that you've seen that you hope to see a step forward. Do you plan for it to happen? Absolutely not. Don't plan for it to happen because that's not the strategy. But if it does happen. Then all of a sudden you see Savone Rebel step up and he's the cornerback that you anticipated him to be after a full healthy offseason and an extra training camp of work. And then he turns into being a confident young corner in your defense. Bang.

[Josh Rodriguez]

There's for overshown.

[Kyle Yeomans]

That's huge. Same thing for overshone. Hopefully he's healthy all the way through and he's good to go with a full training camp. Same thing with Shemar James and some of those guys. Jaden Blue on the offensive side of the ball. You could go anywhere and talk about what you could do and what you could see from a second year jump. Is it expected? No. But that's the type of thing you need in order to be really be successful in this league. You need your supplemental guys to join the first round picks that you're selecting and your free agent acquisitions that you had. Imagine if the 2024 class would have taken a second year jump and added to what they found in Javante Williams and George Pickens and from the trades with Kenny Clark and Quinn and Williams. They didn't get that from the 24 class. Maybe the 25 class can do that.

[Patrick No See Walker]

You also need at least one surprise from those draft. Draft class. So like Duron Bland turned out to be that surprise. He made at least one guy where he's just like whoa.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And that was where the 23 team was legit and that's why they won 12 games. Games. We do have to take our second break. When we come back, couple quick notes on the Shrine bowl and the Senior bowl from last week and then we'll wrap things up on Talking Cowboys right after this.

[Troy Caller]

Oh, big golf, sir.

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[Patrick No See Walker]

This is Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman.

[Kyle Yeomans]

From Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Rob, I've never asked, are you a dips guy?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Okay.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Like the workout? You can't tell.

[Rob Gronkowski]

No, I mean for your chips.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, I knew that. Yeah, of course.

[Rob Gronkowski]

You got to try this new Daisy's French Onion dip. Goes great on Sundays.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Daisy like the sour cream brand?

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yep. That's how you know it's going to be fire. I use their sour cream all the time. Goes perfect with my taco Tuesday dinner.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Oh, Jules the chef. I love it.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yep. And now I've added the daisies French onion dip to my Sunday spread. They make it with all natural herbs and spices.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I like the sound of that. Everyone knows you need a good dip for game day. Personally, I like to dip everything I can. Veggies, crackers, chips. Heck, I might even dip a buffalo wing in there.

[Rob Gronkowski]

That reminds me, they also have Daisy's ranch dip.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Now you're speaking my language. Sundays on the couch just got even better.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yup, seems like a no brainer on game day. So get out there and give the French onion dip a try. You won't regret it.

[Julian Edelman]

At AT T, we guarantee our network so you can talk college football with your BFF while taking Buster to the vet.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Hey yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I can't believe he ate the whole.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Thing of chicken wings.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I can't believe we're staging a comeback.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Touchdown.

[Julian Edelman]

Yes, staying connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a network outage, you'll automatically get a bill credit for a full day service. For wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by single incident impacting 10 or more towers must be connected to impacted tower on set of outage. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Seeatt.com guarantee for full details.

[Kyle Yeomans]

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[Kyle Yeomans]

It's the official men's skincare brand brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. And right now, Cowboys fans can get 15% off their $75 order. Plus, because every deal needs a playmaker, your order will include a free five piece skin care set and free shipping. The Jack Black playmaker is four of Jack's favorites and a full sized intense therapy lip balm. Make a play for the [e-mail] Cowboys with the code cowboysvip that's getjackblack.com Cowboys with the Code Cowboys VIP to talking cowboys Back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee company the official copy of the Dallas Cowboys. Wrapping things up here on this offseason edition with Patrick no see Walker.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yes sir.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Jacob Rodriguez, linebacker out of Texas Tech and myself, Kyle He Omens class.

[Josh Rodriguez]

We're missing Rich Mocha who is on Good Morning Football right now.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, getting Rich.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's talking to Brian Bumgardner from the office, which I'm a little jealous of the guy who played Kevin.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Kevin Office.

[Kyle Yeomans]

But that's, that's going to be a conversation when he gets back. All right, Shrine bowl and Senior Bowl. Patrick, you got a chance to see some guys at the Shrine Bowl. Anybody stick out to you?

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah, quite a bit actually. I mean, you know, first of all, let me just lead with this. Mason Ryger. Okay? Okay. Ed Rusher from Wisconsin, edge rusher from Wis. Wisconsin, 64245. What a freaking showing, dude.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was great in practice.

[Patrick No See Walker]

What a freaking monster, man. Career high, three sacks. He, he started the flash in the first half that he might start to come on, but that second half he was like, this is, this is my game. Cuz early on you had Wesley Williams, ed Duke 63251. You had Keshan James Newby out of New Mexico. Those guys were kind of coming on in the first half, first 3/4 holders. And then Mason Riker was like, you know what, I'll take it from here. But all three of those guys. So Ryger out of Wisconsin, Wesley Williams out of Duke, James Newby out of New Mexico. Those were my top three edge rushers that, that jumped out. Linebackers didn't have a fantastic showing with the exception of one in particular. Shat Banks, University of Texas at San Antonio. 5 11, 233. Man, he was just all over the place. He was playing like his hair was on fire. He jumped off.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was a late addition to the Shrine Bolt roster too because they had some injuries early in the week.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Week.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I, I, of course I do the work with the American Conference and I've watched him play for three years now.

[Sponsor Announcer]

He's.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He's a dog.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. Yeah. His motor is.

[Kyle Yeomans]

I wouldn't mind taking a day three wouldn't flyer on him.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Motor's great. Plays through the whistle. Showed me some things in coverage as well as show me some things and filling run gaps. So.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And on one day practice. One day practice at one day of practice. Get ready for that.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Banks, utsa. Keep an eye on that guy. Cornerbacks, it was a tough goal for them with the exception of Brent Austin out of Cal 511, 176, third team all ACC selection in 25. Kind of raw, but has some traits there that showed me some things in the shrine bowl. Safety 1 jumped out at me. Cole Wisniewski, Texas Tech. We talk about that.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He was good all week too.

[Patrick No See Walker]

Yeah. 6, 4, 2, 20. And the Cowboys are interviewing the Texas Tech position coach, you know, on defense. So keep an eye on that. And honorable mention, man, you know. Glad it wasn't anything major, But James Thompson Jr. Out of Illinois, man, he fired right out of the gate in the Shrine Bowl. Suffered a little bit of an injury toward halftime just ahead of halftime. Walked off under his own power. Didn't look like it was anything. A major concern, but as a precaution didn't bring him back in the game. But I would have loved to see more. But I saw enough in the first half to make him an honorable mention. And I did do a list of Shrine bowl standouts that make sense for the Cowboys on Dallas Cowboys.com make sure you check that out. Out.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Do you have any that you watched either from the Shrine bowl or a Senior bowl that stuck out to you?

[Josh Rodriguez]

I only watched the Shrine bowl and more. So I was paying attention to the coaching staff because Linda Wells obviously.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Dude, that was awesome.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Amazing for him getting the.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The Gatorade bath at the end of the game. I. I was just. We were sitting in Indianapolis watching the game at a bar and when. I mean smiling ear to ear.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Couldn't have been happier for him. So.

[Josh Rodriguez]

No. And. And. And if he decides to depart the Dallas Cowboys for a better opportunity, it's. It would be well deserved because a guy that has just put in so much work to. To gain the credibility that he has, a player favorite, obviously just really stoked for him. But Rager, like you said, I really liked him a lot. Or rer. Excuse me. Yeah, that was about it. But I just watched Shrine Bowl a little bit. Isaiah, stand back. Did a great job.

[Kyle Yeomans]

He did do A great job on the NFL Network.

[Josh Rodriguez]

He was having fun.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Yeah, it was, it was a good week across the board and I thought the Shrine bowl did a nice job of weathering the storm. No pun intended.

[Josh Rodriguez]

Oh yeah, no, that was crazy. I thought it was going to get canceled.

[Kyle Yeomans]

The storm itself was crazy. And I mean, I risked my life getting on the ice just to get down to practice a couple times over the weekend.

[Hoodie Kush]

But.

[Kyle Yeomans]

And I'm glad everybody stayed safe. They were able to keep all the practices, keep the game going. The crowd wasn't as good as it probably should have been, which is part of the weather. Makes sense for the getting there, but they kept all the guys safe and that was the number one thing. But I'm talking specifically about them having 54 opt outs going into the game and they still had a pretty good product on the field as well. One guy I wanted to shout out before we we get out of here, Landon Robinson, interior defensive lineman from Navy. Dude, he was all over all week long. One of the standouts. He's a smaller body. I don't know if he's going to get drafted because he's only £287 six foot and he's a, he's a nose tackle three technique type of guy. I don't know if he'll get drafted but man, he was really fun. He really showed out for sure. He reminded me of Willie Lamkin for those that do follow the draft. Willie Lamkin was a North Carolina offensive lineman last year which was just out there whooping feet as we like to say on the draft show. Whooping feet and getting out there and taking care of business. But he was so significantly undersized that he went underdrafted. Same kind of thing with Landon Robinson. I hope he gets a shot somewhere because he's a good kid too. And he had a really good week of practice in the Shrine bowl. So I wanted to shout him, he showed out.

[Patrick No See Walker]

And if for those that followed the position that I named for Cowboys for trambo standouts, that make sense for the Cowboys. Notice I did not note any defensive tackles. That wasn't because they didn't show out. It's because circling back to the beginning.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Doesn'T make sense for the Cowboys.

[Patrick No See Walker]

It doesn't make sense for the cow.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Hey, maybe it's an undrafted free agent. That sounds good.

[Patrick No See Walker]

We'll take it.

[Kyle Yeomans]

Sounds good to me. All right, that's going to do it for us here on Talking Cowboys. Be sure to join us next Tuesday. We will be back 10am Central. Time to make it happen for Patrick Gnosi, Walker for Josh Rodriguez. Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yomitz saying so long. We'll see you next week with more talking cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys football club.