Patrick No See Walker (2:16)

NFL security throwing you out of the press box.

Kyle Yeomans (2:19)

By the way, the pressure on that play was from your other first round pick, Malachi Lawrence out of ucf. Really excited if you can't tell, really excited about the draft class. The the Cowboys get it done in the first round with their two first round picks. It was all right. Caleb Downs falls to Dallas. At least in front of Dallas at 11. The Cowboys stay aggressive and they go up and get their guy. It was a fun weekend. Say the sure or say the say it shortly. I am just now recovering. I feel like.

Patrick No See Walker (2:51)

Yeah.

Kyle Yeomans (2:51)

From a long weekend of very long of studying and of watching and of seeing picks and talking on the radio. My voice is still. It's rough.

Josh Rodriguez (3:01)

Not just the weekend, dude. I mean like genuinely building up to the draft. I know that's, that's like Kyle's time to shine. And obviously he's doing a lot during the season, but that's when Kyle's actually cooking the absolute most, is during the draft process, the draft show. It's always great to hear you. The knowledge that you have, the knowledge that you bring Star magazine, that's still out, by the way, the draft guide, if you want to go check that out. But genuinely, Kyle, it's, it's. You should be proud, man.

Kyle Yeomans (3:26)

Thanks.

Josh Rodriguez (3:26)

It's always really good. And I know the listeners appreciate you as well.

Kyle Yeomans (3:30)

Thank you. I appreciate it. And it wouldn't be without saying all the hard work that's in the back too, like behind the scenes with you guys and the website and then Chris Beam and his whole crew cutting up B roll, getting all the video and elements ready, and then our TV staff doing the same thing on their end. It's really, it's a complete effort of just nonstop draft work. And so now that the hay is in the barn, as Jerry Jones likes to say from time to time, now we get a chance to review it and talk about how much better if they are better this football team is. Patrick, based on what you saw in the draft, what were your overall thoughts?

Patrick No See Walker (4:10)

Spoiler alert. They're better. They're better. At least on paper, which is all we can go by. You know, as the calendar turns to May 1 and rookies start to report in a few days, veterans have started to voluntarily report as of yesterday. You saw Dak Prescott, Jake Ferguson, a lot of those guys starting to kind of mill in. But when it comes to this draft, I mean, first and foremost, it, it has to begin and continue with the conversation of how Caleb Downs failed to the Dallas Cowboys. And I'll go ahead and I'll add some insight here. The Cowboys attempted to and were willing to trade up as high as number six to get one Caleb Downs. They were in on the phone in deep conversations with the Cleveland Browns. But the Cleveland Browns wanted something that was just too rich for Jerry Jones and Steve.

Josh Rodriguez (5:00)

More than two fives.

Patrick No See Walker (5:01)

They, they wanted far more than two fives. And even if you look at the draft value chart, it makes sense. It's. It's expensive to get from 12 to 6. But even outside of the draft value chart, I should say in addition to the ask was too much. The Cowboys backed out of that. And it turns out that Caleb Downs was still staring them in the. As the number 11th team went on the clock, which was the Miami Dolphins, Cowboys got on the phone with The Dolphins said, hey, let's work a thing. They worked the thing. Two fifth round picks went to the Dolphins, Cowboys get Caleb Downs, all is right with the world and then the draft goes from there. You have another first round pick, you get Malachi Lawrence, but you get him in addition to two fourth round picks. I mean, this Cowboys team was wheeling and dealing and unbeknownst to a lot of people I just told you about the Cleveland Browns attempted trade, it didn't work. Browns were asking for too much. This Cowboys team was constantly on the phone throughout the totality of the draft. Right. So they moved back from 20 to 23 to get Malachi Lawrence, but they were on the phone with the Chargers. Well, actually the Houston Texans initially, because the Texans wanted to come up from 28 to 20, wasn't enough time on the clock in order to get that deal struck. So what did they do? They struck a deal with the Eagles, got two fourth round picks and then got back on the phone with the Houston Texans and said, hey, can we interest you in 23? It didn't pan out. But that is all to say that the Cowboys were indeed cooking the big meal over the course of those three days. They didn't walk away with a second round pickle. What they did walk away with was Caleb Downs and Malachi Lawrence. And I saw Barham and, and even ended it with a seventh round pick that you would think, okay, it's a flyer. Okay, cool. But he's literally a flyer. Guys like 4, 440 speed 437 sub 447ft tall 6 massive producer out of Ecuador. Anthony Smith gets to reunite with Savone Revel. I'm not going to give them an A plus simply because I wanted them to figure out how to get the second rounder back. It would have cost them future capital. They just weren't willing to do that.

Kyle Yeomans (7:05)

You wouldn't have had the same draft class.

Patrick No See Walker (7:07)

You wouldn't have. But I also, they probably could have.

Kyle Yeomans (7:09)

They could have gotten the second rounder back.

Patrick No See Walker (7:11)

I'm also not going to sit here and pretend I'm not giving them a stone cold A because anything that grades this draft class right now on paper is anything less than an A is missing something. I don't know if you're missing film. I don't know if you're missing, you know, positional value. I don't know. But for me, this is a stone cold A. And it, it starts with Caleb Downs and the improbability of him being available and them not waiting for 12, them saying you know what some people are going to say, well, why would you go up just one spot to get a guy just like Jerry Jones said? Because he. He didn't want it to be a situation where you're sitting there thinking, oh, he'll fall one more spot and then the Dolphins take him. And then that's. That's a regret that you have for the rest of your mortal life.

Josh Rodriguez (7:55)

Yeah, absolutely. No, and just to set the stage, I mean, when we're upstairs and the trade talks are sort of happening, you know, we're all kind of huddled up upstairs working on different sides of things. We're with the social team. I'm with, you know, Patrick up there working. We're. We're kicking ass and taking names up there, trying to do our absolute best to give you guys the content that you deserve in a timely manner. But whenever that trade. The talk started happening, it was. It felt unreal. I was like, there's no way we're trading up. I. I have been a staunch, like, stick and pick guy this entire lead up to the draft. Yeah, I didn't think there was any way we're going to move up because it's like, you know, you have two solid picks, and they traded out of both of those up and then down a little bit. So they made the most of what they had in the draft. I genuinely feel that way. The fact that I was telling Amber this too, in my wildest dreams, I did not think Caleb Downs was going to fall. That look genuinely. And it's a conversation that we had before the draft process and we had brought it up on talking Cowboys. As far as the value of a safety and where that falls now, in today's NFL, the edge rushers are being paid a premium, and a position like safety is not in high regard in value as that position. But now you're starting to see a tonal shift because all of that money is being tied up into the edge. You're starting to see more value in these guys in the back end. Jerry Jones talked about it. I mean, the front office talked about it when we traded Micah Parsons. It's like you're going to get five value players out of this one trade, and they've done just that. And it's not. Not over yet. You still have next year's one. Depending on where the. The record falls between us and the, The Packers. It's astounding that they were able to do that. Not to say that this is going to be the same production. Not that any one of these guys is going to get the same production as a Michael Parsons. But you have to feel really good about the depth that you've built on defense because you did not have this a year ago.

Kyle Yeomans (9:58)

Yeah. Because if you, you factor in now the two fourth round picks into that selection because remember the, the packers selection was the 20th pick. So you trade back three spots, you pick up the two fourth round picks, which helps revamp the two fifth round picks that you sent to Miami to go get Caleb Downs at 11 and to provide an insurance situation. And for those that might be saying, why do they need to go up one spot? 1. It sounds weird on paper. Oh, let's just go up one spot. Even if we don't think the Dolphins are going to pick a guy. Well, look at what happened between the Eagles and the Steelers with the Cowboys trading out from 20. That whole conversation happened because Pittsburgh assumed Dallas was taking a defensive player at 20, which they would have been right. It would have been Malachi Lawrence. They're at 20. They're on the phone saying, hey, what are you taking here? Are you taking defense? If that's the case, we're going to stay here at 21 and we're going to take Makai Lemon and it's going to be awesome. Now the Eagles are on the phone and then they trade up and they go to 20 and they take the guy from right out under underneath the noses of the Steelers. Same thing could have happened for a team that really had Caleb Downs high on the list. They could have called Miami before Dallas did you know Dallas was saying, ah, they're probably going to take an offensive lineman. Fact of the matter is the two fifth round picks and I thought Jerry put it well, where insurance for the selection to make sure you get your guy. Then you turn around and you leave the day after Thursday started with more draft capital than you entered the day.

Josh Rodriguez (11:31)

Better draft.

Kyle Yeomans (11:32)

That's incredible. It really, it was a drafting clinic put on by the front office and they've been decent at drafting. I've, I've said that before. You look at the track record between some of the best drafting teams in the NFL. We always talk about the Ravens on our show. Yeah, the Ravens can draft well. The, the Buccaneers have drafted well. The. Trying to think of some of the others. I mean, for the most part the, the Rams and the, the Chiefs have drafted well to build to what they are now at the top of the list in terms of Pro Bowlers and all pro selections in a draft class. It's Will McClay and the Dallas Cowboys. They have drafted well. Do they hit on every pick? No. But have they had the success? This is as far and away the best draft night one that I've seen. And I think the most shocking thing about it, because they made the two trades on day one to maneuver the board a little bit, is they did not trade again the rest of the

Josh Rodriguez (12:27)

weekend or their future.

Kyle Yeomans (12:29)

Another deal. Yeah. You didn't wager any picks from the future. You still might could have that as a possible trade for another hole. We'll talk about that later in the show. You could, you can use all of that for the future. You put together a draft class that I would argue is as good on paper as any that we've seen since 2020.

Patrick No See Walker (12:49)

I agree.

Kyle Yeomans (12:49)

And they are still able to make some moves moving forward. That's. That's incredible work by the front. By the front office.

Patrick No See Walker (12:57)

I agree.

Josh Rodriguez (12:57)

But maneuverability was amazing.

Patrick No See Walker (12:59)

They did make one more trade. Day two.

Kyle Yeomans (13:03)

Oh, they made a trade.

Patrick No See Walker (13:04)

Yeah, you're right.

Kyle Yeomans (13:05)

Not for draft cap.

Patrick No See Walker (13:06)

Not for draft capital. What I would say is let's throw D. Winters into this. This conversation. We have to throw. Got to talk about it. The Cowboys lacking a second round pick. What did they see happening in the second round?

Josh Rodriguez (13:15)

Linebackers gone.

Patrick No See Walker (13:16)

There's your run on linebackers B there. Right. So the Cowboys, instead of sitting back and saying, hey, well, we'll just, you know, we'll sit and we'll wait until the third round pick, see how this plays out, and then we'll see if we can attack it in free agency. Not to say that they won't attack in a free agency by maybe a potential trade in the next week or so. We'll see, Wink. But they went out and they talked to San Francisco 49ers whom they had already been in conversations with for De Winters as early as the trade for Oso Digizua. The front office here said that once that trade was secured with OSA Digi Zuwa going out to the Bay Area, the. They threw out D. Winters. The Cowboys didn't say, hey, you know, we have our eye on him, but let's see how things play out in the draft. Smart play. They didn't just go ahead and say, let's get D. Winters in the package with Oso Digizua because you may not have had to. You might have had to give up a little bit more to make that happen. They said, hey, we'll make the OSA deal happen. Let's revisit these D. Winters talks in the, in the draft if we can't check the box off at linebacker. Second rounder, they didn't have one. The run happened on linebackers. They picked up the phone, call the 49ers and called John lynch and they said, you know what? Remember we were talking about DE Winters. Let's go ahead and send him over in exchange for a 5th round pick. Cowboys put him on a plane. The Cowboys, for one of the first times I've seen in recent memory, they were not overvaluing their, their fifth round picks. They weren't overvaluing their comp picks in the fifth round. They said, hey, we want Caleb Downs. We're going to move up one spot to keep a team from calling Miami and beating us to him. You can have two of those fives, take both Compex, we don't care. But then turned around and said, you know what we're going to do? We're going to call the Eagles and we're going to get two fourths. We lost two files. We get two fours. I mean these guys were willing and dealing. And then D. Winters. I'm not going to sit here and act like D. Winters is Fred Warner. But it is objective to say that once D. Winters trade was executed, who was the first player that jumped online and said the Cowboys quote unquote got themselves a real one?

Kyle Yeomans (15:11)

Fred.

Josh Rodriguez (15:11)

Fred Warner.

Patrick No See Walker (15:12)

Fred Warner. Listen, you don't have to take no C's opinion. That's fine. Do you value Fred Warner's opinion? Because Fred Warner says the same thing. Will McClay says the same thing. I was talking to Christian Parker, he was saying the same thing. Scott Simons was saying the same thing. These are guys who are paid far more than me to do far more homework than me on these guys. DE Winters can come in. He has the green dot ability. Would he preclude me from making another move in free agency? No, he would not. However, what he does provide you is more than solid insurance. That's to make sure that you are set going forward if you have to fall back on him and some of these other guys.

Kyle Yeomans (15:51)

Can I add one more? The the thought process like you were talking about of all the linebacker run happened in the second round. It did happen in the second round. They were proactive to even that. Like they had this in mind before the linebackers started rolling off the board. Because remember the trade wasn't announced yet on the the Internet side of things. But on our Cowboys draft show coverage we saw the trade happen in the war room. It was before Jacob Rodriguez went at 43. It was before the first linebacker. Because then it went Rodriguez, Trotter, Gold, A. Allen, all in the matter of 10 picks. And then add Anthony Hill Jr. By pick 60. Between 43 and 60 on the board, those five linebackers went. Dallas knew that was happening. Dallas was aware that was coming. So they said, you know what, let's get the value now. Yeah, let's get the value where we can. A guy who started 17 games last year, is he going to be a game changing caliber linebacker? That is yet to be seen. But what you did see on film is a guy who was drafted in 2023, is still in the early portions of his career and started 17 games for arguably a solid defense in San Francisco last year. Whether it was because of injury or not. Of course, that always plays a factor. I think it was another proactive move. And we're not sitting here just praising the front office because they're the front office. They are. They made mathematical moves that you can't necessarily argue with and they made their football team better with it. You can argue the picks themselves all you want because you can say they reached on Malachi Lawrence. I had him as 33 on my big board, so that was a little high for me. I like Malachi Lawrence and I like the plan they have for him. But did they reach for him? Maybe. But they didn't have a second round pick.

Josh Rodriguez (17:41)

Yeah.

Kyle Yeomans (17:41)

So is it really a reach if you didn't have a second round pick? I think all of this is just mathematical.

Patrick No See Walker (17:46)

And they were willing to go back to 28 to get Malachi Lawrence if he was still.

Kyle Yeomans (17:49)

They were trying to.

Patrick No See Walker (17:50)

If the Tech. Yeah, if the Texans had, you know, bitten on that bait that they were dangling in the war, not once, but twice. They tried on two separate occasions to get back to 28 with Malachi Lawrence still in mind. But like you said, the furthest down they could get was 23. You have no second round pick. You got to do what you got to do. If that's your guy and if he was clearly their guy, they did what they needed to do.

Josh Rodriguez (18:09)

They obviously felt really good about him. That was a name that we kind of heard leading up to the draft. As a guy that, you know, looking at his measurables, looking at what he was able to do both on the left side and right side defensive end, I think that's a value pick, at least for them. I didn't have them that high or anything like that. Not that I was like evaluating Malachi Lawrence. I obviously was looking at another defensive end that went a little before him. But I mean, you have to like the pick because they're confident.

Kyle Yeomans (18:34)

Are you talking about Bane?

Josh Rodriguez (18:36)

I don't want to say that name anymore.

Patrick No See Walker (18:38)

You know a name you can't say. Caleb Downs.

Josh Rodriguez (18:40)

All right, I like it.

Patrick No See Walker (18:41)

Cowboy that makes up for.

Kyle Yeomans (18:43)

That's a fun little compromise, you know.

Josh Rodriguez (18:45)

Yeah, I'll take it.

Patrick No See Walker (18:46)

Shout out to my guy. Katie Drummond, I see you tapping in. He says D. Winters is a capable starter in the middle, but he doesn't necessarily wear the green dot. I agree on both. On both counts. He is starter capable. He can weather green dot. He did it for Robert seller with the 49ers. So, yes, he can do it for Christian Parker. Will he is tbd because we need to see who else the Cowboys add, if anyone else, and then, you know, everything will sort itself out from there.

Josh Rodriguez (19:11)

Question for you guys. Is Dee Winters your green dot right this second?

Kyle Yeomans (19:17)

Probably. Who else is it?

Josh Rodriguez (19:19)

Is he going to be? Well, yeah, green dot, who else is it? Right.

Patrick No See Walker (19:22)

So. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Yeomans (19:23)

I mean, either that or it's going to be Caleb Downs.

Patrick No See Walker (19:27)

Caleb Downs will call, which they kind of dismissed. Well, they dismissed it initially a little bit. Yeah. They didn't entirely dismiss it. They did say that Caleb Downs will call some plays.

Kyle Yeomans (19:36)

I don't think they want to give that type of responsibility right up front,

Patrick No See Walker (19:40)

not just to a rookie, but they don't want a defensive back as the green dot. Scott Simons, he came onto the draft show. Great job with you guys interviewing these positional coaches. Scott Simon said in no uncertain, Simon said Simon said nice and no, that's a bar, man. And no uncertain terms that he would prefer to not have the green dot and the Cowboys would prefer not to have green dot as a defensive back. They train them. They train the defensive backs in the case of emergency injury, things like that to be able to call the plays as a green dot. But they, he and the Cowboys front office and Brian Scheimer have already said they want the green dot to be a linebacker.

Josh Rodriguez (20:13)

Maybe give the green dot to a guy that's bored. However, like. However doesn't have enough to do.

Kyle Yeomans (20:18)

Caleb Downs is not your normal defense.

Patrick No See Walker (20:21)

Yeah, nobody's gonna.

Kyle Yeomans (20:22)

He's not just any second level. He's gonna be around the box. He's gonna be at the line of scrimmage. He's not your normal defensive back. Just keep that in mind. All right. When we come back here on talking Cowboys, we're going to talk about some of those day two and day three picks a little bit break down. What else they bring outside of Caleb Downs and Malachi Lawrence to the fold. We mentioned Dee Winters as well, but what else did Dallas get on draft weekend? Some of these lesser known guys that you can expect to see in the fold come this fall. You're listening. The Talking Cowboys. More to come right after this.

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Kyle Yeomans (24:08)

Back to Talking Cowboys welcome back into Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign. The official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Plenty of smiles in the building over the last few days with Caleb Downs, Malachi Lawrence, Jayshon Barham. By the way, Jayshawn, is how you Jayson Barham. Almost like, like, I mean, it's two syllables, but it's a very emphatic J,

Josh Rodriguez (24:43)

J, Sean soft and then bar.

Kyle Yeomans (24:47)

Barum. Yeah, I mean, I think technically B says Barham like it says like bar ham. Like B a R, H a M or that's what the B says.

Patrick No See Walker (24:58)

As always, hold on for one of two things. The PR release for the pronunciation for the pronunciation game or when the rookies get here later this week. And I always make it a note to ask.

Josh Rodriguez (25:09)

Yeah, just ask.

Kyle Yeomans (25:10)

Like, hey, just say you're Jason Barham. Yeah, I see right here. Yeah. If it's. If it's that.

Josh Rodriguez (25:16)

I'm wondering if you're drafting Kyle.

Kyle Yeomans (25:18)

I'm wondering if it just kind of flows a little better, though.

Josh Rodriguez (25:20)

You know, Barham better than Barham.

Kyle Yeomans (25:22)

But we'll ask him whenever he gets here this week. We'll see what happens. All right, let's talk about some of the day two. The day two pick and then the day three picks. Anybody stand out to you as someone who is ready now to contribute?

Josh Rodriguez (25:36)

I mean, contribute in what way? I think anyway, at least how I'm looking at it as like I said to lead off the show, you have depth now. You have depth at certain positions that you didn't have before. Barham, for me at least is a depth piece. I don't know that necessarily that he's starting. He's not going to be starting, you know, but rotational guy obviously and I think of anything between Barham and then also Overton, you're going to see a lot of versatility with how they use them. At least that's kind of the vibe that I'm getting from what they're saying about these guys in particular. Please feel free to elaborate, Kyle, if you feel differently about I think these guys are versatile and depth pieces.

Kyle Yeomans (26:20)

If anything, I agree with everything you're saying. I think when when you look at the draft class because of the gap where they picked from 20 to 92. Jeez, they were. Yeah, that was a long time three long. We were just chilling. Yeah, that 72 pick span is really the buffer in this draft class, especially between starters day one and not so starters day one. So I thought Dallas did a good job of hedging their bets to a certain extent. And I'm not talking about Baron Morton or whatever the guy's name is in Texas Tech right now that's having some problems with the gambling side of things. The I'm talking about Jayson Barham. He's probably going to back up D. Winters. Yeah, Devin Moore is probably going to back up to Ron Bland on the outside or whoever ends up being the starting outside corners, whether it's Bland or Revel or who Kobe Durant see him

Josh Rodriguez (27:19)

more as an outside guy.

Kyle Yeomans (27:20)

Yeah, he's definitely an outside guy. I don't think he's going to play inside really at all. Malachi Lawrence is going to rotate in with Rashawn Gary, even though I think you'll see a bigger snapshare for Lawrence than you would these other guys just because he's ready and that's what the position calls for. And then LT Overton is kind of your your secondary possibility for Otito A Bonya at that big in spot. They want him to be the big end. Probably bulk him up a little bit more between year one and year two and put him on that edge. So I agree with everything you said. You give depth in that second line of guys because I think if we looked at the starters on offense say, okay, that's not the worst Lee or the worst defensive team in the league like they were last year. If everybody's healthy, everybody's up front and you're talking about Kenny Clark, Quinn and Williams, Duron Bland, Malik Hooker, Kobe Durant, Jalen Thompson, Donovan, Ezraku DeMarvi and overshone Otito Bonya, Rashan Gary. I feel good about the starting caliber group. Do you did. But then you. Then you. I said. I thought I said Thompson. Okay, if I didn't Jalen Thompson, then you jump off and it's Justin Baron. Nothing against Justin Baron, but it's Justin Baron and it's Marquis Bell and it's Julian Wood and it's Ready Stewart, and it's just guys that aren't ready to step in in a moment's notice. And that's where you go south. And I think they did a good

Josh Rodriguez (28:39)

job of buffering that and that second tier of names. Those are guys that you were heavily relying on last year.

Kyle Yeomans (28:43)

Heavily. Especially guys like Stewart and.

Josh Rodriguez (28:46)

Yeah, I mean, playing snap after snap after snap. I mean, those guys were heavily relied upon. And now you've built up, like you said, that second tier, the backups, basically. And like I said, these are depth pieces. I wouldn't expect two, more than two of these guys to be starting in. In any particular role, honestly. Downs and you have a very solidified starter in downs and everybody else is really just supplementing what you already have. But I feel good about it because if that's. If that's the way they're looking at it, because you're not in a position where those second tier guys are having to start you, of course, unless there's an injury. But at least it's a. It's a different mindset, at least from this front office than I've seen before. Because you have been drafting these guys and saying, like, all right, we need you to start week one against Philly or whoever it is, like, get ready to go. And I don't think that's their M.O. their modus operandi right now.

Kyle Yeomans (29:38)

And I. I would be. I've kind of got a bit of a bold prediction.

Patrick No See Walker (29:45)

Come on with it, say with your chest on Tuesday.

Kyle Yeomans (29:47)

I will. I think by the end of the year, Jayson Barham could possibly start for you at inside linebacker, depending on what moves you make, depending on from what happens here on out. Because if you go back, you look at his 2024 film at Michigan, I liked that a lot more than I did as him as an edge rusher. And I was looking at him as an edge rusher. I knew he played some inside linebacker, but I thought, hey, it's Michigan. They have enough edge rushers. There's no need to move them to edge rusher if he's good at playing inside linebacker. I think I was wrong. They Needed an edge rusher and he was the best player to move into that spot. And they had some high level recruits at the inside linebacker spot. I think he could really be a surprise for certain people as time goes on. Is it happening right this second? No. Is it happening out of the. The end of training camp in Oxnard? Probably not, but I think at some point in time, we're going to start seeing J. Sean get more and more opportunities at that inside linebacker spot. More so to the point of it's all dependent on who they get from here on out, because they could sign another veteran, trade for a veteran, whatever that may be. And that changes the whole equation. But as it sits right now, I could see that being they did sign

Patrick No See Walker (31:01)

a veteran, but it's not going to change the equation. We'll get to that in the third segment.

Josh Rodriguez (31:04)

Right. But does the fact of him being a Wolverine, a Michigan Wolverine, dissuade you?

Kyle Yeomans (31:10)

Okay.

Josh Rodriguez (31:10)

Because that was a narrative.

Patrick No See Walker (31:11)

Yeah.

Josh Rodriguez (31:12)

I know once we drafted a Wolverine

Patrick No See Walker (31:14)

on defense, and it will be that way until further notice. Yeah.

Josh Rodriguez (31:18)

But that didn't dissuade you at all.

Kyle Yeomans (31:19)

If he fizzles out and things fall off at that point, then maybe we could talk about it. But hey, Jordan Lewis was a Wolverine. That played pretty good for you on the defensive side of the ball.

Josh Rodriguez (31:29)

Also drafted in the fourth round.

Patrick No See Walker (31:30)

Now, not just that. 92nd overall.

Josh Rodriguez (31:32)

92nd overall.

Patrick No See Walker (31:33)

Sean Barham. 92nd.

Kyle Yeomans (31:34)

92nd overall. Same pick.

Patrick No See Walker (31:36)

I mean, we got.

Josh Rodriguez (31:37)

Welcome back.

Patrick No See Walker (31:38)

It's written. It's written in the store. He's basically Jordan Lewis in the Stars. But no, I'm actually going to. I'm going to cheat with these second round picks and say, two guys. One, I'm going to lead with Devin Moore. I think Devin Moore might have an opportunity here to make more waves as early as year one than some are probably anticipating. Because I'm on the record. And I'll say it again, as much as I love Daron Bland, I am concerned about that foot. I'm concerned. That being said, hopefully, knock on wood, Daron Bland remains healthy. That's what you want for the entirety of the year. And for him to get back to prime form. Just like you want Sivone Revel with his first healthy offseason, you want him to take a huge stride forward in. In year two. Um, I feel like if, for whatever reason, there's. I'm not going to assign injury to any guy, but if there's injury at the position, at the boundary corner position, I think Devin Moore, with his length, his Physicality, his ability to press man and play in the zone and the fact that he's 45 speed with that height and with that length, he's very disruptive. I think that he could come in and make some sort of impact for the Cowboys in year one to the degree where it makes them possibly question some things going into 2027 as far as what that that roster looks like in the cornerbacks room. Now I'm going to flip over to LT Overton. I believe that Overton might be the, the sleeper on day three.

Kyle Yeomans (32:57)

Why is that?

Patrick No See Walker (32:58)

I'm sitting there and I'm watching this guy's tape and what kept popping in my head, popping in my head, I was like man, osa. I was like osa, osa, osa. In the, in the concept of the Cowboys fit. How does he fit with the Cowboys? So Osa gets sent over to the 49ers. That was more contractual than anything. Okay. But then when you look at before they made the pick to LT Overton, look at who they have like Kenny Clark, great, great pass rushing defensive tackle. However, he's still on the bigger side of the spectrum. We know Quinn and Williams, he's a really good pass rushing defensive tackle but he's the biggest guy on the roster. Otbonya, he's a big guy. Yeah. O Bonya, he's a big guy. Jay Toea, big guy, right. So you got all these big guys but what you didn't have is that tweener and that's what you had with OSA before you decided you didn't want to keep paying that 100 million dollar contract. Too expensive. Well now you bring in Lt Overton, he's a little bit undersized in comparison to Quinn and Williams and Kenny Clark and Otito.

Kyle Yeomans (33:54)

Look at Elbonia who he's probably playing behind right now. 320 for a bon monstrous and Lt Overton's 274 monstrous. What you need, it's a different type of player.

Patrick No See Walker (34:04)

It is. And what Christian Parker wants, he wants at least one guy who can be that tweener depending on how many men down or in the set that you can say hey slide inside or hey, pop outside and play a little bit wide. This is why I believe that LT Overton might be a bit of a sleeper because I think he's going to get those opportunities because he's the niche, he's a niche player for Christian Parker. So I say that to say don't sleep on it. I don't believe LT over 10 is going to be a starter this year. I don't know that he'll be a starter come year two, but mark my words, because he's the niche player, the niche player for Christian Parker. He's going to get on the field, he's going to be schemed. They're going to have schemes for him. A rookie day three pick coming in, having plays schemed directly for him because he's the only tweener, so to speak, who can do it. It's going to give him a bunch

Josh Rodriguez (34:52)

of opportunities, different alignments, different schemes for that he's able to do.

Kyle Yeomans (34:56)

He's. He's not going to play right now. I don't see a fit for him, at least in line starting day one. Starting day one if it's a 34 base, right? But remember, and I keep trying to, to push this point, people don't remember the 34 base doesn't mean you're running 34 the majority of the time. You're going to run nickel 60% of the time. Nicholas base, the 34 you might see 15 or, or 20% of the time this next year. So when you got four down linemen, there is a spot for LT Overton and he's going to be just fine in that spot. I think in Osa Igizua, yeah, he was kind outsider at the 34 spot because there's really not a great spot for a 6 foot 2, 280 plus pound defensive end because he's undersized for the defensive end spot, but he's too big for an outside linebacker spot. LT Overton kind of fits that same mold, but when there are four down linemen, he's going to be fine.

Josh Rodriguez (35:49)

And obviously he's still so young that they can sort of mold him into whatever they really need.

Kyle Yeomans (35:53)

Bulk him up couple pounds, put him at that four eye spot. If you give him £15 he'll be fine. Which I talked about that with Keldrick Falk last week when I was saying, hey listen, they're not interested in Keldrick Falk compared to other people. How did that play out, by the way?

Patrick No See Walker (36:08)

The.

Kyle Yeomans (36:08)

They drafted an edge rusher at that spot and his name was not Keldrick Falk. But the, the, the thought process is you can mold those guys and either drop them £15, put them outside, or you could put them inside and have them gain 15 pounds. We're kind of seeing that with Jayson Barham and with, with, with LT Overton and I think the two different directions

Patrick No See Walker (36:27)

they're marrying LT Overton with the perfect position coach and outside linebackers coach Chidera Uzo Deribe. And and this is not biased, this is just me having some experience with, I'm not going to say it with Uzo and and his ability to coach up edge rushers at Georgia. Go Dogs. I lied and but Mikel Williams for example. Mikel Williams came out in draft. He was 260. He needed to bulk up a little bit. But you're talking about Lt Overton. 280. 285, give or take. Yeah. You want him to add a little bit of weight, but you don't want him to add so much that it puts him back in the category of like an Otito or Jay Thoya. You don't want him tap dancing around £300.

Kyle Yeomans (37:04)

No.

Patrick No See Walker (37:04)

But Chidera, he excels and has excelled at the collegiate level with some of these, I don't want to use the word light, but some of these not so heavy defensive slash outside linebackers who can just absolutely get after the quarterback. So I believe that that's a good marriage as well. We're talking about these players. We got to talk about the marriage of the player and their position coach and the defensive coordinator like Caleb Downs. He's exceptional already. And now he gets to go with Christian Parker and Derek Ansley and Ryan Smith really quickly.

Josh Rodriguez (37:35)

Speaking of measurables and I know we're talking about Overton, but like going back to Barham for just a minute, like I believe I heard something on the radio and I forgot to look this up. What is it about his measurables that like puts him in like the 90th percentile of like players at that position?

Kyle Yeomans (37:48)

Like, yeah, I've got to go look at it. Okay, let me find it.

Josh Rodriguez (37:52)

We can.

Kyle Yeomans (37:52)

I'll do it in the break. I'll get it up in the break. Here we go. When we come back here on Talking Cowboys, how did the rest of the NFC east fare in this draft last and who had a good draft? Who maybe didn't have a good draft?

Patrick No See Walker (38:04)

Yeah.

Kyle Yeomans (38:04)

Let's talk about it when we come back with more talkie Cowboys right after this.

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Patrick No See Walker (41:06)

How's it going? You see that Cowboys game? Oh, I watched. Been seeing some good things. Totally. They have some talent. Yup.

Kyle Yeomans (41:14)

Some great talent.

Patrick No See Walker (41:15)

And they got some fight. Hoping this is the year. Me too. Oh, I'm Cody, by the way.

Kyle Yeomans (41:20)

I'm Travis.

Patrick No See Walker (41:21)

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Kyle Yeomans (41:38)

to Talking Cowboys Back here on Talking Cowboys. Reviewing the 2026 NFL Draft. Be sure to get a behind the scenes look at the home of the Dallas Cowboys with tours of AT&T Stadium presented by SeatGeek. Check out the locker rooms, playing fields, contemporary art collection and a whole lot more. Get your tickets today@att Stadium.com tours. I saw a video this week I thought was kind of fun. There was a viral video on Instagram reels or Tick Tock or one of the social media platforms and it was a gentleman's birthday and his significant other took him to the stadium for an event. He didn't know what the event was, but they took him up to the stadium. They did like a whole tour. They went and sat down in certain seats. She had bought him season tickets for the Cowboy season as a birthday present.

Josh Rodriguez (42:30)

Wow.

Kyle Yeomans (42:30)

And I think that's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. That's one of the best gifts you could give to your significant other. They may already be married. I can't remember.

Patrick No See Walker (42:38)

Renew the vow.

Kyle Yeomans (42:38)

Yeah, do something. But I thought that was incredible. So congratulations to that Cowboys fan. I don't remember his name. I wish I did. My bad on that one. But I do. I thought that was really cool. So I wanted to shout them out. Yeah, W gift for sure.

Josh Rodriguez (42:54)

And if you want to do that, make sure you schedule a tour. Atd.

Kyle Yeomans (42:58)

There you go. That's what it reminded me of it. So that was good stuff.

Josh Rodriguez (43:00)

@&t stadium.com tour all right, so I

Kyle Yeomans (43:03)

want to go through and look at the NFC East a little bit here in terms of what the rest of rest of the division did at some point. But before this though, you wanted to clean up what you were asking about.

Josh Rodriguez (43:20)

You found the stat and it was actually about Malachi Lawrence.

Kyle Yeomans (43:23)

It's about Malachi Lawrence and it was his relative athletic score, the ras. You can find this at RAS football or at Math Bomb on X. And Malachi Lawrence, defensive end prospect in the 2026 draft class, scored an unofficial 9.9 RAs out of a possible 10.

Josh Rodriguez (43:42)

That sounds pretty good.

Kyle Yeomans (43:43)

That's pretty good. That ranks 22nd out of defensive ends, my goodness, since 1987. So out of 2046 defensive ends, he was number 22. And pretty incredible stuff when it comes to the vertical, the height, the weight, the 40 yard dash and so on and so forth.

Patrick No See Walker (44:02)

Super freak.

Josh Rodriguez (44:02)

Let me correct two starters. He's a James in the draft class.

Kyle Yeomans (44:05)

There you go. The Cowboys draft class scored very high across the board on those, except for, I mean, Caleb Downs didn't test, so he didn't get one. But the RAS side, Malachi Lawrence was 9.9 as we mentioned. Jayson Barham was an 8.8. Shelton was an 8.5, Devin Moore was an 8.5. LT Overton was the one knock. It was a 2.5 out of the, the defensive end spots. And then Anthony Smith was a 9.2, by the way. So your seventh round pick, you talk about traits. Traits.

Patrick No See Walker (44:39)

Got some at the top of the show, right?

Kyle Yeomans (44:41)

It's the one I mentioned back in January. That's what I get for covering the American Athletic Conference. The American Conference. They'll get mad at me that I said athletic.

Patrick No See Walker (44:50)

We're not gonna, we're not going to say Anthony Smith's going to be, you know, this, that, the third. But I will say, given his traits, given his production, I like it. And, and the fact that the Cowboys are so unsettled at WR4 and deeper.

Kyle Yeomans (45:02)

Yeah.

Patrick No See Walker (45:03)

Anthony Smith has a great opportunity to come in here and make.

Josh Rodriguez (45:06)

Watch out. Turpy. Turpy. Speed. Speed.

Kyle Yeomans (45:07)

Yeah, very much so.

Patrick No See Walker (45:08)

Kavante Turpin might be relegated simply to returning.

Kyle Yeomans (45:13)

Anthony Smith can return too, by the way. All right, let's continue what you did. Let's talk about the New York Giants draft class. That's probably my favorite out of the n. That's my favorite.

Patrick No See Walker (45:24)

And by favorite I mean I hated the most.

Kyle Yeomans (45:26)

Yeah, no, I mean Arvell Reese, Francis Malanoa, Colton Hood, Malachi Fields, two shots of Caleb Downs. They did draft a guy with three first names. Bobby Jameson, Travis, J.C. davis, Jack Kelly are the, the drafts class for the Giants.

Patrick No See Walker (45:40)

They passed on Caleb Downs. I do like that.

Kyle Yeomans (45:44)

Thank you for that.

Patrick No See Walker (45:44)

But listen, I mean, the, the Giants, I'm not going to say they cooked. I think the Cowboys cooked. But the Giants, they did. They did some things. They did some things. I mean, yeah, taking Arville Reese, I mean, yeah, you, you can start and stop the conversation there because when you combine that with the rest of their defensive line, I'LL tell you what, the Cowboys offensive line better make sure that they come. They come strapped up and ready to go because that defensive front that they're going to face twice with, that's going to be nasty. It's just nasty freaking work. And you got some things to figure out at left tackle with the Cowboys, which just happened to be Arvel Reese,

Kyle Yeomans (46:21)

Abdul Carter, Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeau is still there.

Josh Rodriguez (46:26)

I mean, an embarrassment of riches without sexy dexy.

Patrick No See Walker (46:29)

That is crazy nasty work.

Kyle Yeomans (46:31)

Now the rest of their defense is pretty Pepe Le Pew as they could

Josh Rodriguez (46:34)

have used a safety.

Patrick No See Walker (46:36)

Well, they did get a corner. They got Colton Hood which was on, you know, one of the top guys on the Cowboys radar. Cornerback out of Tennessee. So they did get Colton Hood. So they did solid. I don't want to say solidified, but they did upgrade.

Kyle Yeomans (46:48)

I like Colton Hood.

Patrick No See Walker (46:49)

They upgraded their secondary and they.

Kyle Yeomans (46:50)

I can't wait to see them get burned. But it'll be good.

Patrick No See Walker (46:53)

They would desperately need. So yeah, I think Reese is a home run for them, I believe especially combined with the others in that defensive line and the rest. Colton Hood I think is instant upgrade for them. But overall outside of the Cowboys, I think the Giants had. Yeah, I think they had the best.

Josh Rodriguez (47:12)

I mean I'm not even going to count the Cowboys here as far as the NFC goes because of my bias, but I would say they had the best draft of the nfc aside from the boys.

Kyle Yeomans (47:23)

I agree. The Eagles, Makai Lemon, USC wide receiver Eli Stowers, the Vanderbilt tight end slash wide receiver Markel Bell, the mammoth offensive tackle that can't really move his feet. Super great. Cole Payton, North Dakota State quarterback, guard from Georgia, Micah Morris. You can't say it. Cole was new ski the Texas Tech safety. I like their set. It's funny, my favorite picks for the Eagles draft class as a whole are their seventh round picks.

Josh Rodriguez (47:53)

Wow.

Kyle Yeomans (47:54)

Like I liked Cole Wisniewski. I was hoping he would end up here. I like our Bernard just because of the possibility he's one of the international program or pathway program gentlemen. He was from Nigeria. Just a. A freak of an athlete. I mean he is, he's special. He also scored a 9.9 on that, that athletic score.

Patrick No See Walker (48:14)

If he gets this football thing figured it might be.

Kyle Yeomans (48:18)

It might be.

Josh Rodriguez (48:19)

Who did they draft with their 2 5th rounds that the Cowboys gave him?

Kyle Yeomans (48:23)

They. They took Cole Payton with one of them and then they traded the other one.

Josh Rodriguez (48:26)

Okay.

Patrick No See Walker (48:27)

Michael Morris was the other but they moved out.

Kyle Yeomans (48:29)

Yeah. So. And then Washington. Sonny Stiles. Love Sonny Styles, great pick there for, for Dan Quinn. I think he's gonna. I could see Sonny Styles doing something similar to what Micah Parsons was doing where Dan Quinn had him as an off ball linebacker initially. Didn't know he had the edge rusher side of things more so was talking about what they could do in coverage and then, hey, oh my gosh, this guy's got some edge rush possibility. And then he does that with Dan Quinn. I think that's kind of the vision that he would have there. Antonio Williams, the Clemson wide receiver in the third round. Joshua Joseph from Tennessee, I liked him in the fifth. I thought that was good value. Katron Allen, Penn State running back. They always find a day three running back. Matt Goldin, the Michigan State center and then the quarterback from Rutgers, Calicomanis, a thon Calicomanis.

Josh Rodriguez (49:20)

What do you think of a thon Calicomanis?

Kyle Yeomans (49:22)

I mean, I, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, like he's a seventh round pick. I watched Cole, Cole Payton, the, the Eagles guy a little bit more just because he was a little further up the board. But Calicommandez, he's. He was a bus driver in college. So I don't see anything different moving forward.

Josh Rodriguez (49:39)

What was, what was the reasoning there? I mean, of course they're solidified quarterback, they're fine.

Kyle Yeomans (49:43)

But just take a guy to see what happens if you don't want to fight for him and in undrafted agency, see what happens there.

Patrick No See Walker (49:51)

So I think by, I think far and away the Cowboys, as far as NFC east teams go, the Cowboys won the NFL draft. We'll see how it all plays out when these prospects get on the field at the NFL level. But yeah, I think the Cowboys did it. I think the Giants came in at second and I think outside of Sonny Styles, you know, you look at the other two teams but really quickly and we'll go. I'm not going to run down the list of undrafted guys. I'm going to say there's one guy, in my opinion, that everyone needs to keep an eye out on as far as undrafted guys are concerned. Michael Trigg, tight end of out of Baylor. The Whales got his guy. Titan was a sneaky knee. Sneaky knee. We've talked about this. You've talked about it as well. And we're not going to go into what the need is specifically because we're out of time. But Michael Trigg, talk about a freak athlete. He. He's basically just. I don't know, man. He's, he's.

Kyle Yeomans (50:36)

I thought he was a draftable player.

Patrick No See Walker (50:37)

I had a fourth. I don't, I don't know how he fell to the ranks of the undrafted but he did. Hometown kid out of Baylor.

Josh Rodriguez (50:43)

Thank you.

Patrick No See Walker (50:44)

And Lunda Wells I believe is going to absolutely take this kid to the next level and that's going to make this tight end room so fun. Especially as Brevin Span for they've had

Kyle Yeomans (50:52)

some luck with undrafted tight ends.

Patrick No See Walker (50:54)

Listen, Revan span Ford vs. Michael Trigg both pushing Jake Ferguson.

Kyle Yeomans (51:01)

Sign me up there. One more thing that we got to talk about before we get out of here. What's your concern level with the George Pickens situation? Signing the tag, not signing the tag. He just hasn't been in the building.

Josh Rodriguez (51:15)

Right.

Kyle Yeomans (51:16)

So he hasn't been able to sign

Patrick No See Walker (51:17)

me as of yesterday, which was the one day that they could have been in the he, they veterans reported voluntarily yesterday, which was Monday. He wasn't in the building yesterday. We'll see if he's in the building today. But if he's not in the building today, it's still voluntary. He already notified the team that he is going to attend the franchise tag. The Cowboys have already gone on record time and again and most recently during the draft when Stephen Jones said zero intention on trade him. I get it though. Micah Parsons, Michael Parsons headlines. I get it. I understand. But I do believe that George Pickens, I don't believe he's going to rescind his notice to them because he told them he's going to sign it. I believe he's going to sign it. When might that be? I think the smart play if I'm George Pickens, let me, let me put on the George Pickens hat, not speaking for him. But if I'm George Pickens, I am going to sign it. I didn't tell you that I was going to sign it this weekend. I just said I'm going to sign it. I'm going to protect myself. See you in training camp.

Josh Rodriguez (52:12)

There was a an interpretation by mandatory mini camp Michael Urban, who has some history playing wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys and negotiating with Jerry Jones who reflected and interpreted that him announcing or sending an email or communicating with the front office saying I'm going to sign this day one of the draft is a way of him saying like don't draft a wide receiver.

Kyle Yeomans (52:33)

Don't draft one.

Josh Rodriguez (52:34)

Don't draft one. I'll be here.

Kyle Yeomans (52:35)

Yeah.

Patrick No See Walker (52:35)

And I want to be point. I don't, I don't see George Pickens doing that and then turning around and leaving the Cowboys high and dry. By not signing the tag before it matters. Right now, it doesn't matter. And I also say that because he's been working out all offseason with Dak Prescott and CD Lamb and these other receivers. So the connection is still there. The chemistry is still there. The timing is still there. Only question is, when will he sign it? When will he report mandatory minicamps? Not till June.

Josh Rodriguez (53:00)

Don't worry about it right now.

Kyle Yeomans (53:01)

There you go. All right, that does it for us here on Talking Cowboys. Hope you had some fun with us. We'll be back next week at 10am Central. Time to break it all down for you. For Patrick no See Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long from Talking Cal Cowboys will see you on Tuesday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's

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Lilly, a medicine company.