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- [00:00]
A
Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parm delivered. A little escape? No. A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes. Yes, that. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine?
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B
No.
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A
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C
The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Talking Cowboys streaming live from the Dallas Cowboys world headquarters at the Star in Frisco CD Lamb Touchdown.
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B
It's on Jake Ferguson. Prescott keeps it and he bangs.
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C
And now your hosts, Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans. It is the Monday after a 27 point outing from your offense, but a 30 point outing from your defense, the Dallas Cowboys fall to the Carolina Panthers 30 to 27 in Week 6 of the NFL season. Welcome in to Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. We're going to talk about it. What happened on the East Coast. Both of these guys were there. Patrick no see Walker, Tommy Irish. We've got Chris Beam in the back. He was there as well. I'm Kyle Yeoman. So glad you're with us and thank you for tuning in the Monday after because I know it's always frustrating following a Cowboys loss to listen to Cowboys content. I understand. I'm a born and raised Cowboys fan. I grew up cheering for this team and when they lose, I am in a worse mood. That's just plain and simple. You can ask my family, you can ask my parents, my wife, you can't ask my kids yet because they can't tell you. But at some point they will.
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B
They're aware.
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C
They are aware. And this was just another of two straight losses. Let's just say that the last two losses have been in the embarrassing category and this is a second one. In that case, nothing against the Carolina Panthers. Their game plan was there, their execution was there. All, all the flowers in the world are eco dowdle. He stood on business and I commend him for doing that. A team that did not stand on business is currently here in Dallas and their nickname is the Cowboys. So with all that being said, Patrick, I'll open the floor to you. Cowboys fall 30 to 27. Your thoughts from being there on site at bank of America Stadium.
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B
You know Beamer, we might as well just title this, this episode Wasted. Wasted. You had a career record setting gta. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So when you play gta, for those that don't know Grand Theft Auto, when you meet your demise, what pops up on the screen is wasted. That's exactly the vibes right now. Exactly the vibes. You wasted a career record setting performance from George Pickens. He now has six touchdowns through the first six games. First NFL player in a Cowboys uniform to do that since the merger who was not named DEZ Bryant. You wasted wasted Hunter Lipke's first career touchdown. You wasted contributions from Jake Ferguson and Ryan Flournoy. You wasted a 3 touchdown, 0 interception effort from Dak Prescott. You wasted an opportunity to go for a go ahead touchdown with two passes behind the line of scrimmage. We will get to that later. You wasted an opportunity on 4th and 4 to get the ball back for a mulligan on your offensive side and a possible game winning drive. You wasted a chance to gain ground on the Eagles in the division lost to the New York Giants. You, you made everyone want to go home and pull a full Gucci man and get wasted.
- [04:13]
A
Ah.
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B
So however you slice it, that is the vibes today. Yesterday's game was one the Cowboys should have won and should have won handily. But they constantly allowed the Panthers to hang around and in doing so they ended up with the L defense outside of the Donovan Wilson interception and the 21 yard return. That was the the highlight of the day for the defense. You needed more. They couldn't stop the run. You said Rico, he stood on business. Cowboys were unbuckled completely.
- [04:46]
C
They did not buckle up.
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B
They did not buckle up. Rico had a day. Now he is now the first NFL player that has gone that went undrafted in the history of the league to have back to back 200 plus scrimmage yards games. So the Cowboys will forever be tied to Rico Dowdle in, in the history books now. So yeah, wasted. Just like GTA 5 and just like when GTA 6 drops wasted.
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D
Well, you know you guys mentioned that you're both Cowboys fans. I'm the only one at this table that's not a Cowboys fan. I don't really root for anybody. I just cover the sports. Yeah, it's for me to be impartial. That was bad. That was very bad. I mean I think Patrick hit the nail on the head for most of it. You know, you essentially what we figured out about this team six games into the season is if their offense does not play perfect football and score on just about every possession, they're going to lose. And that is wildly unfair to Dak Prescott and Brian Schoenheimer and everybody who is trying to move the ball downfield offensively. Now, I'll say this to the office did not help themselves by not establishing the run game. They were very poor in that. And I think it started up front. I think Javante Williams had a couple of plays that he didn't exactly read very well and shot the wrong gaps. But you got to credit Carolina, their defensive front, Derrick Brown. Those guys did a really good job of nullifying a lot that Dallas was trying to do. They've. One thing they've done really well is having their guards pull and move. And they just took it out of the equation and they filled where. Where they needed to be, and they did a really good job against that. So it was. It was. It was difficult. And then obviously, you know, defensively, I mean, Bryce Young is just having a field day and Rico Dowdle's having a field day. There have been three players, three, three times this year where a player has gone for over 200 scrimmage yards in a game, and two of them are from Rico down on the last two weeks. So props to Rico. I always enjoyed Rico when he was here. I'm happy for him. I mean, that's. That's super, super cool to see him, you know, do that after, I think, very evidently by his comments last week and this week, I think that he's, you know, he felt disrespected when the Cowboys said, hey, we maybe like this Javante Williams guy over you. Was that the right decision? I guess we can. We can talk. In retrospect, I think Javante Williams has been a really good player for this team. I just think he didn't have a great game. But, you know, then you look at the NFL leading rushers and, man, how fast did Rico Dowdle jump up? He jumped that list quick to the front of the line there. Let me. I'm trying to see exactly how long, but, you know, he's already third now behind. He's four yards behind Javante Williams, and he played like three games. So credit to Rico. He's playing really well. And Carolina is a team that was in need of a win like that, but, man, you think about how wildly different the outlook for this season would be if they come out of this game of the win. They're setting it 3, 2 and 1, and they've got Washington coming up next week wasted. If they are able to win that game, then not only do you get to four wins early, but you get a foothold. Not a foothold, really, but a stronger stance in the division with the Eagles loss to the Giants, like you mentioned. So this is a game that they needed to win. I mean, every. Every game you need to win in the NFL. But this is a league that may have the most parody that this league has had in a long time. You look across the board and Dak Prescott was talking about it after the game. Any given Sunday, any team can beat another team. And it's been. It's what makes this game super fun. But for Cowboys fans, it's understandable to watch a lot of what happened yesterday and say, man, you. You just can't. You can't let some of this happen.
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C
It also makes this, this game extremely frustrating. And that's why Patrick's holding up a sign that says, this is why my other sign exists. Talking about the one that says this does not imply that the Cowboys will win the Super Bowl. All of that being said, I think you. You pointed it out. Great. Dallas did not establish a run, so it's not all on the defensive side of the ball. I thought Ashaan Robinson dominated the offensive line.
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B
Yep, absolutely.
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C
Derrick Brown dominated the offensive line. We kind of expected Brown to do so, but Robinson was a little bit of a shock. The offensive line gets two of their starters back. Tyler Guyton, Tyler Smith. The left side of the offensive line is whole again, and you feel very confident in doing so. They didn't have a great game. They did not play well. The offensive line struggled to set the ground game initially, and it also struggled the block for Dak Prescott. Dak had to escape a couple different times to allow plays to develop. I mean, I thought. I mean, there was a couple times in the first half, especially where Dak rolled out of the pocket. I said, my goodness, like that pocket collapsed quick, and he was able to still make a play. Dak is playing extremely good football. Extremely good. I don't want to put a tag on it. The MVP caliber stuff. We'll talk about that as we keep going. But to harp on that every week is one thing, but to just say, you're playing good football. He is. He's playing tremendous football. And for him not to have a winning record at this point in the season is extremely disheartening.
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B
We'll give you some stats that back that up. Wasted.
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C
Okay.
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B
Since starts were first tracked, this is via Todd Archer.
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C
Shots.
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B
Since starts were first tracked in 1950 Dak Prescott is the first quarterback to have 11 or more total touchdowns with zero turnovers and a non winning record over a three start span in GB. Not great, Bob. I'll give you one more. Dak Prescott in his last three games, 74 for 103, 72% completion percentage, 817 passing yards, 10 touchdown, 10 passing touchdowns with one rushing touchdown, no interceptions. Dallas has scored 104 points in those three games. They won one, lost one, tied one defense. What the hell are you doing out there? How are you doing?
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C
Yeah, it's a. It's a frustrating scenario. Like I said though, it's not all on the defense. The offense did not play well from.
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B
Not all ground games from an offensive line. It's on the coaching as well with that. As much as we love shy's play calling. Yeah. That last offensive possession, it was bad.
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D
Terrible.
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B
Yeah, it was bad. Stop it.
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C
The. I want to talk about the defense though, because as much as I want to harp that the passing game was working, George Pickens was great. Jake Ferguson made an impact. Again, you still don't have CD Lamb or Kevante Turpin and you were still able to move the ball through the air. The ground game, we talked about it. Defensively, where do you point your finger? Where do you point it right now if you're the defense? Because I still hang my hat on. You've got to finish pressures, you got to get some level of pass rush. Dallas had zero pass rush against the Carolina Panthers offensive line. Let me say that again. The Cowboys had zero pass rush against the Carolina. Carolina Panthers, zero. Offensive line, zero. I mean they did not play well at all on the edge last yesterday.
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B
Well, I'll see your question, Kyle and I'll ask you a better question. Follow up. Not a better question.
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C
Wow.
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B
Not a better question. Wrong word. Not a wrong word. I'll ask you an add on question.
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C
Okay.
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B
Because that was a phenomenal question. Where is the blame not placed on the defensive side of the ball because they couldn't get the pass rush. Yeah. They couldn't stop the run. Your linebackers played very poorly.
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C
Yeah, they did play bad.
- [12:35]
B
Okay. And your secondary, when you look at your safety. So it was such a mercurial game for Donovan Wilson. You get the interception in the 21 yard return which then sets up Dak Prescott and the offense to put points on the board. But not long thereafter your eyes get caught in the backfield. You had one assignment which was Ted McMillan on that particular play in the red zone and you let Tech McMillan get behind you. You peeled off because you thought there was pressure on Bryce Young. It doesn't matter if there was pressure back there or not. That' your responsibility. Keep your eyes out of the backfield. But that goes to what you, myself, Josh and Isaiah have said.
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C
You're talking about when Donovan sank down.
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B
When he sank down.
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C
See, I thought he was looking at that over.
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B
I felt like he was because Ted.
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C
McMillan or TMac or whatever he wants to be called took a quick burst inside and then he went right back outside. Put a foot in the ground and he changed directions and it would just went.
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B
We'll go back and look at it either way. It was.
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C
I thought he was sinking on that in route.
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B
Sinking or eyes in the.
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C
Either way.
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B
Either way.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Don't peel off.
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C
But you're not supposed to bite if you're the two high safety. I mean it was a too high safety shell. And if you're not gonna go down or if you're not gonna. If you're not gonna have help underneath, you leave it there. So that way you can go and pursue and make a tackle as opposed to turning back around and trying to cover.
- [13:53]
B
Goes back to the to talking Cowboys. His main point when it comes to Donovan Wilson is that utilization. His utilization is not the fit is not there. You're asking him to cover, but he's e to crash down internally. That was a perfect example of that. So that's an example of the secondary lack of pass rush. Ted McMillan's second touchdown of the day. Sam Williams had Bryce Young dead to rights. You take, you take Bryce Young down on that play, it's no touchdown. But you didn't he sidestep. He steps into a throw. Tech McMillan back of the end zone wide open again. So Kyle, you make a great point with the question where's, you know, where do you blame. What do you place to blame on defense? My answer is yes. You place it on all three phases, all three levels.
- [14:40]
D
I should say I think you're right. But in my opinion this is a football in general any level is a line of scrimmage game. If you can't win at the line of scrimmage, more often than not you are going to lose. Yeah, that's what the Cowboys are doing right now. In the run game, the last coming into this week they were third. They gave it the third most rushing yards in the league in weeks four and week five. And then they do what they did against Rico Dowdle. And in this game they only had two run stuffs all game and one of them was from Ready Stewart. If your nickel corner has half of your run stuffs in a game, that's not good. That's not good. It's not good. And Solomon Thomas had the other one. So, you know, this is a, this is a team that has really, really struggled the last couple weeks after. I thought they were okay to start. They weren't great, but they were okay considering what they'd been in the past. You take okay over bad any day of the week and they've kind of reverted back to okay. They're just not really, not really playing the run very well.
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B
Yeah.
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D
And so you start with that. And if you can't stop the run in today's NFL, it's already difficult enough because then that opens up the play action game and guys have all day to throw. And why do they have all day to throw? Because you don't have a pass rush. You don't have a pass rush. And you know, I've seen all this talk on Twitter of oh well, if they had Micah Parsons, then, you know, this would be a much better defense. I really don't think it would be. Yeah, I don't think. Would they have a better pass rush? Absolutely. And does that fix some of the problems? Sure, 100%. It doesn't matter if Rico Dial is going to run for 200 yards on you. It doesn't. It just doesn't. So you know, there is blame across the board defensively. But I think it starts up front on the defensive line because if you can't stop the run and you can't get pressure on a quarterback, it doesn't matter if you're playing Bryce Young or whoever the quarterback is at South Lake Carroll, he's a pretty good quarterback.
- [16:37]
C
They're undefeated.
- [16:37]
D
Is he really? There you go. Shout out to Riley Dodge. Congrats on Hunter wins. Coach. That they're just going to have a field day on you. And it's exactly what happens in this, it happened in this game. And then you say, okay, well then let's look back at the Jets. Why did that work? Well, they didn't stop the run particularly well, but they had a pass rush. They had five sacks.
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C
Those sacks.
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D
They had five sacks and they had one sack on Bryce Young.
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B
I don't know. The utilization piece is just going to bug me to death because Donald is one thing and that's why I'm not placing it all on Donald. He's got it. He's got to stick to his assignment. So I do place portions of that on him. But again, misutilization.
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D
But.
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B
But then when you look at. Sometimes that's fair. And he's.
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C
He's got to learn if he's going to be utilized.
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B
I can't stress it enough. That's why half of it is. Half of it is on him.
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C
Absolutely.
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B
The other half is on EVA flu. Another thing that's.
- [17:28]
C
There's blame to go around.
- [17:29]
B
Right. Another thing that's on Eber flu when it comes to utilization. Look at the. The fourth and four which ended up being the nail in the coffin. The fourth and fourth throw by Bryce Young.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So at initial when you look at the still photo pre snap, you're going to get pissed off because you're going to say why the hell is your cornerback who's proven that he can be physical because he came into league and he played nickel for you. 10, 12, 1 million yards back of Hunter Renfro. So that's the steal. That's.
- [17:57]
C
If you're going to the sticks, you're going to the sticks. And here's talk talk. I've got, I've got a text thread.
- [18:03]
B
And talk to him.
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C
Barry. I know would would be fine with me. Shouts out to 42 yeah, we'd be fine. I sent him a couple of those screenshots from last night and this was after post game. So we had talked about it on post game and then I sent him some more stuff. Barry said the play him and he. There was debate on Twitter. Let's back it up. There's debate on Twitter whether it was Kenneth Murray at fault because he didn't get over in time to cover the.
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B
Area taken after you of the field.
- [18:32]
C
Murray was trying to get over to get there. Instead of the blame being on Duron Bland. Duron Bland had outside leverage prior to the snap. When we were watching the game, Isaiah stand back who's not on the show today, said, why are you playing outside leverage on 4th and 4? Why are you playing outside leverage on 4th and 4? Why are you playing outside leverage with COVID 0 on 4th and 4th? This was prior to the snap. So before the snap even happened. A former quarterback who is on Good Morning Football this morning was looking at that play and saying that's where the ball should go because that's where the disadvantage is for a guy like Daron Bland. And that was before he backed out. Then he backed.
- [19:10]
B
Then he backed out.
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C
He said, why are you backing up? Why are you backing up? And then Barry Church chimed in and I asked him after the fact, I was like, do you think Murray was At fault? Or do you think Bland was at fault? And he said he may have been told to play back Duron Bland because the play was coming to him and because. Or because Murray was coming over to him but not 10 yards deep. On fourth down and four, he said at the worst, his heels should be at the sticks. Talking about Daron Bland. You should not be 8 to 10 yards back behind the line of scrimmage if. Even if you are getting help from Kenneth Murray. So Kenneth Murray did his best. He took a step and tried to get that direction and almost broke the pass up. He was about a foot and a half away. But to blame Kenneth Murray. There is one thing to say to Rob. Bland has no blame for playing 8 to 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. A former safety says your heels got to be at the sticks because it's the sticks. That's where they're trying to go.
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B
I think that that play, everything you described, is a microcosm of what's wrong with the Cowboys defense right now. And the answ is. It's everything. Right, You.
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C
Little details.
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B
Little details. It's everything. So if you're criticizing Eber flutes for that, and you should be, you're asking why in the world is Daron Bland playing 8 to 10 yards off and backing out Now. I. I get the play scheme. Your. Your goal was an over under with Murray having the under. But then again, like you said, Duron, why'd you back up even more? Yeah, that. That shouldn't have happened.
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C
But if you're gonna back up up.
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B
Then back up, then look at Kenneth Murray on the play. He was. He was cheating a little bit too hard to the left.
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C
To the left. Yeah.
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B
So if you are the under in the over under and you see Duron Bland, you know, the. Ron Bland is back and then backing up, you should shade in that direction. And if you shade in that direction, you probably get that pbu maybe. So then the question is, did you overestimate your speed in that situation, thinking that I can shade left and still make it back over here? Possibly. Well, the overestimation didn't work out in the. Your favor. So I. I place equal parts blame on Floose for not putting Duron up and just letting him phys. Get physical with Hunter Renfro. Did, you know, try to disrupt that timing. And at the same time, Kenneth Murray, you've got. You got to get to that ball. Don't. Don't shade to the left. When you see that the spacing is on, you know, what's going on on the right hand side. So. And then what happens? You no pass rush, ball game.
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D
And, you know, just to put a bow on that last play on fourth down, when you watch it, Kenneth Murray hesitates for half a second when he's reading Bryce Young's eyes, and then he breaks to try and break that pass up. That was the difference. And look, Kenneth Murray, it's a tough position to be in because it is his assignment to step into the middle of the field. And when Duron Bland is playing, as Patrick said, a million yards off the line of scrimmage, you're almost begging the D, the offense, to throw a quick slant there, right? That ball's getting out quick, and you're just trying to get him because he's got that cushion, because the linebacker is playing on the opposite side of where he's lined up. So he's got across essentially the entire middle of the field. Hash to hash in order to get there. If it's how I don't anybody in Kenneth Murray's plays, any linebacker on this team. No one's getting there. No, they don't have the personnel.
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C
They don't have to where they can.
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D
Rely on somebody to cross the field in that much time. Unless demarvion overshadows.
- [22:38]
B
There's one. But he's not only.
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D
He's got to be 100%, he's got to be 100%. And he's still probably got to get his arm out and dive to break up that pass because that got out quick.
- [22:47]
B
He's got the wingspan.
- [22:49]
D
Yeah. But you still got to get there pretty damn quick. So it's. It's disappointing because, you know, that's a play where it should be there. And, you know, you wonder, okay, if Bland lines up a little bit closer, can he get over and try to knock something away? Well, then you risk the pass interference part of it. And they were throwing quite a bit of pass interference penalties out yesterday. So, yeah, maybe we can get some explanation later on on that play. But it looks like that's one where there's once again blame spread across the board because guys are not put in a position to succeed. And it goes back to your Donovan Wilson talk. I don't think Donovan Wilson's been put in a position to succeed a lot because they're asking him to cover more often than not.
- [23:31]
B
Thank you.
- [23:32]
D
Donovan Wilson should not have as many coverage responsibilities as he has should. Is he going to get some? Naturally, yeah. You play safety, you're going to.
- [23:41]
B
Right.
- [23:41]
D
But this Is a guy who is a box safety good at. Yeah. Playing in the box and going up and hitting people. And when you're asking him to make decisions on, okay, do I need to cover the double move or cover the crosser? And that's just not his game. It's really not. And so it's. There's a lot of guys who are not playing their game right now, and that's why you're seeing a lot of the issues that you're seeing.
- [24:07]
C
I want to take our first break. When we come back, I want to ask a question generated by the fans.
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B
I like those.
- [24:15]
C
There's a lot of talk around the defense and what to do next.
- [24:19]
B
Okay.
- [24:19]
C
I want to answer some of those questions in a realistic sense when we come back with more talking cowboys right after this.
- [24:27]
A
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- [24:51]
E
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- [25:52]
D
I'm home. Hey, Mom. Before you ask, I've done my homework and the dishwasher's unloading.
- [25:57]
B
Nice. Hey, can you.
- [25:58]
D
Hey, hon.
- [25:59]
B
Yes, I've got the finale ready to play.
- [26:01]
D
Here's your wine. Wow.
- [26:03]
F
Isn't it nice not having to ask? We think so. That's why if there's a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a day of service. Guaranteed credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or for wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impact 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. See att.com guarantee for details.
- [26:21]
C
If you're looking for fresh American roasted coffee that gives back, you need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle coffee. That's right, America's coffee is now available in the coffee aisle of a grocery store near you. Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran founded with a mission to give back to those brave men and women who have served our nation. Every bag, box or can you purchase helps support that mission. Head to your local grocery store and roast yourself some black Rifle coffee today.
- [26:51]
B
Every day begins with a promise. A promise to work hard and to build a future. That's why we're here, providing the tools, expertise and John Deere equipment you have relied on for generations to help you get the job done right. We're with you. That's our promise to you. Because no matter the project or the challenge you're facing, we're with you. We're united. How's it going? You see that Cowboys game? Oh, I watched.
- [27:22]
D
Been seeing some good things.
- [27:23]
B
Totally. They have some talent.
- [27:25]
D
Yup.
- [27:26]
C
Some great talent.
- [27:27]
B
And they got some fight.
- [27:28]
C
Hoping this is the year.
- [27:30]
B
Me too. Oh, I'm Cody, by the way.
- [27:32]
C
I'm Travis.
- [27:33]
B
Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys.
- [27:36]
C
Go Cowboys.
- [27:37]
B
Make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation.
- [27:50]
C
Back to talking cowboys. Back here on Talking Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by Invisalign. The official smile of the Dallas Cowbo Cowboys.
- [27:59]
B
Back with teeth, I promise.
- [28:00]
C
Yeah. Back with Patrick. No see.
- [28:02]
D
Don't worry, Invisalign. I got you.
- [28:04]
C
Tommy Irish, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. This is kind of interesting. You know how like YouTube does their like auto like they do their AI chat summary when you first pop on. I've never seen it before and it drops down and it says like what the chat is talking about. I happened to like catch a glimpse of it and I took a screenshot of it. This is kind of funny. It just completely summarized Cowboys social media over the last 24 hours in one AI blurb. The entire state of the Cowboys fan base on social media has been completely summarized. View this is the chat summary from YouTube. Viewers in the chat are expressing disappointment with the Cowboys performance, particularly the defense with some Calling for the defensive coordinator to be fired. Some viewers are blaming Dak while others defend him and some are mentioning Jerry Jones. It up pretty spot on.
- [29:01]
D
Summarize the last like three years too.
- [29:03]
C
Very well could be, especially without naming the defensive coordinator position. It could certainly be the case. But yeah, good job. AI YouTube chat summaries that's kind of interesting how you just summed it all up, but there has been a lot of talk about what to do next on the defensive side of the football. Is there need for a change when it comes to the coordinator position this early in the season? Remember, we're six games in, we're a third of the way through. Is there a change for personnel? Do you make a trade? Do you go and get something from wherever you can? Is this team close enough to do either one of those things or and so do you ride it out and just hope it gets better with injuries and guys that are returning from injury? That that being the case, there's options here for the Dallas Cowboys. Where would you start if you were in the GM shoes?
- [29:54]
B
Patrick no see Walker putting my GM cap on. First and foremost, I am absolutely entertaining a trade of some sort. Just to remind everyone we're we're not permitted to say names of players that are actually obligated to other teams because it's viewed as tampering, but I would absolutely go and trade. You're two, three and one right now. Is the season completely lost? No, but it's on the verge of it. It's like we we were talking about before we went hot on the first segment. You're on the verge of it. You drop this game to the commanders. Who knows what happened happens against the Broncos. So now is the time if you're going to make a change to the personnel because as it stands, your returnees notwithstanding, which demo is a hu he's like the warhead they're hoping returns here soon. And he will return soon. We'll see if that's early mid November, which is my prediction, but that's just me. So yeah, you get the warhead back. But. But you know, does he need some grace to get back to 100% to be able to make the play that Murray was unable to make in that situation. We'll see. But you can't solely depend on demarvion over shown coming back from injured reserve. So for me, I'm going to make a trade. That's my GM cap. Personnel changes. You made a personnel change yesterday that I floated on the show two or three weeks ago When Daron Bland came back, you made that change. Trabon Diggs is on the outside. Duron Bland is on the outside. Ready? Stewart is. Is at your nickel.
- [31:18]
C
Yep.
- [31:18]
B
So you granted me that. Thank you. Didn't. Didn't much help yesterday, but, you know, you granted me that from the defensive interior. You brought in Kenny Clark. You sat Mozzie again. So you're. You're figuring some things out.
- [31:34]
C
Kenny Clark had his worst game.
- [31:35]
B
He did. The defensive interior didn't have a great game.
- [31:38]
C
Oh, didn't play well.
- [31:39]
B
Pass rushers didn't have a great game.
- [31:41]
C
The one part of this defense that all season long we said was consistent and better than everybody else ended up having their worst.
- [31:48]
B
And, you know, I. I hate to say this, but this is where we are, man. And I'm laughing while I'm about to say it, and the chat's going to go crazy when I say it, because. So not only would I trade for maybe some linebacker assistance, you gotta get a pass.
- [32:04]
C
You gotta get an edge.
- [32:05]
B
You gotta get an edge rusher, man. So, yeah, they traded away Michael Parsons. And you know me, I've. I've not been on that, like, once it happened, it's just like, all right, let's just kind of move on. Now that we moved on from that happening, Nothing wipes up that spilled milk. You can at least acknowledge the error in that.
- [32:23]
C
There is some spilled milk.
- [32:25]
B
Pass rush. You need pass rush. So I'd go trade for a linebacker. I trade for a Pats rusher. As far as that's the GM cap, the owner cap. I don't think they. They make a change right now with D.C. i think they see enough from their purview. This is not me speaking from their purview. I think they see enough positive with the scheme. And like you said, some of this is accountable to the players. Absolutely right. So because of that latter point, latter part of that sentence, I think it buys Eber Floose more time. I think Shoddy wants to give Eber Flous this entire season. He wants to see it work out. Now, ask me this question at the end of the year, if it continues as it is, and then it starts to smell like a Mike Nolan situation.
- [33:03]
C
Yeah, it very easily could. Yeah, I agree with you on that sense, but I'll get to my point here in a minute, Tommy.
- [33:10]
D
So let me ask you this, guys. When we talk about windows for championships and Super Bowls and things like that.
- [33:17]
B
Sure.
- [33:18]
D
Usually your window gets opened when you stack together some really good drafts. And in recent history it's been some really good drafts, one of which you get a rookie quarterback and you're paying a rookie quarterback. Well, right now the Cowboys have got Dak Prescott so their window's a little bit different and he's playing at such a high level that you want to be able to maximize that. So he's got three years left after. Is it three years or two years after this year? Three. Three years after this year. So three years left on his deal after this year. You've got two first round picks in the next two drafts and you should never tank. I'm not a fan of tanking and it's not a thing like it's not something that you should do. You play to win the game. But when you have that draft capital that is so valuable and you were willing to move off of an all world pass rusher to obtain that draft capital, I think you use it with the long term in mind and you want to maximize on that window. Right. So I understand your point of making a trade for right now and again the season is not lost at 2.
- [34:24]
B
3 and you have extra picks from.
- [34:26]
D
That and you have extra picks. But I don't think there is a single player that you can trade for right now, even two or three players that would wildly change the landscape of this defense. I really just don't think there are that many that would take this from a unit that has been basically dead last in terms of yards allowed per game to all of a sudden, you know, okay, this is going to be a, even a top half of the NFL defense. I just don't think they're there right now. I don't think they have the personnel for that. So I think you have to kind of mix the long term shot with the present and there's going to be some things where either way you're going to just have to live with what you got. But you have to build towards the future. And the good thing about this team is they have drafted fairly well compared to other teams. Sure, you're going to have your misses here and there. You're never not.
- [35:22]
C
You need more contributions from your current class.
- [35:25]
D
You need more contributions from your current class. And if you're going to use those two first round picks in the next two years, boy do those four guys have to hit or two quickly or three of the four pretty quickly. And so you know, what are they going to do? Who knows? I'm with Patrick and I'm sure you stand the same. Kyle. I don't think they're going to move on from Matt Eber Fluss. It just doesn't. That's not going to fix anything. That's not going to fix anything because not right now. Who else are you going. What's the interim going to change? That isn't already an issue.
- [35:58]
C
Yep.
- [35:59]
D
So I don't think that's the. I don't think that's the solution. I think this is really more of the personnel right now is not where it needs to be to have an elite defense. I just don't think it is.
- [36:09]
B
All you need is this defense to be mid.
- [36:13]
D
They don't even need to be great. They need to be average, serviceable.
- [36:17]
B
If they're just mid, yeah, you. You're probably. I mean, you're over.500. If they're just mid, yeah.
- [36:24]
C
And that's where my point comes in. I agree with everything that you guys have just said. First, let me just start off by saying if we thought Eber Fluss was going to be moved on from or that he deserved to be moved on from, we are allowed to say that on the show. I just want to let that be clear.
- [36:40]
B
Please let them know that we can talk because we've absolutely done that before.
- [36:43]
C
We've absolutely, absolutely done that. Mike Nolan's one, Mike Zimmer was another one. Mike McCarthy. That conversation, we've talked about it.
- [36:50]
B
Let's not play that game.
- [36:51]
C
Yeah, we've. We've had that, that ability to talk about that stuff all the time.
- [36:56]
B
It's not going to happen.
- [36:58]
C
It's not going to happen. And I don't think it should happen right this second. It's week six, guys. Week six of the NFL season. So don't expect it to happen next week or the week after or the week after. Don't expect it, honestly, before the end of the season. Unless the season's out of reach and you are out of playoff contention and your team is one of the worst defensively in the league, which very could very well could happen. Then you can maybe talk about it because then you're moving on. You're not giving up. They're not giving up on the season yet. So Matt Eberflus will remain your defensive coordinator. That's just part of it. What happened. You guys remember what happened on August 28th of this year? Of this year.
- [37:35]
B
Isn't that the. That's the Mica.
- [37:37]
C
That was the Micah trade.
- [37:38]
B
Yeah.
- [37:39]
C
Since that day, Dallas Cowboys acquired a couple of first round picks, right? I've said hold on to those picks, use them from a draft standpoint.
- [37:48]
B
Yes, you have.
- [37:49]
C
And build toward 26, 27, 28.
- [37:52]
B
That's the draft show. And you talking.
- [37:53]
D
Absolutely.
- [37:54]
B
It might be.
- [37:55]
C
I love the NFL draft. I love the draft show. I love all of that. I'm super excited about those first round picks. I would love to draft those first round picks because your team's good enough to have those first round picks and still be in contention. But kind of what Tommy just said, the window of opportunity a lot of times coincides with the window of how your quarterback is playing.
- [38:16]
B
Yep.
- [38:17]
C
And the window of what your quarterback is playing right now is the best that it's ever been. Dak Prescott is playing his best football of his career and just like Patrick said, in the open, you're wasting it. You're wasting this opportunity with Dak Prescott and an offense around him with weapons. George Pickens, my.
- [38:34]
B
Oh, my God.
- [38:35]
C
George Pickens is just playing at an extremely high level and he doesn't even have CD Lamb opposite of him. CD Lamb's coming back. He's going to be fine. Jake Ferguson is the leading tight end receiving or leading receiving tight end in the NFL right now. You have the top tight end, you have one of the most explosive players and you have an elite wide receiver and a quarterback that's playing in an MVP caliber level. I don't need this defense to be top three or four. I don't need them to be top three or four in the NFL and I don't think they can get there. They could trade for two all pros and they're probably not there. But what you can do is make some conservative effort to improve the personnel on the defensive side of the football and get them to a point where they are serviceable. That's what I'm asking for. You don't need to trade for an All Pro. You don't need to spend those first round picks, though. If the opportunity is there and the price is right, then come on down. Let's try and get a little all pro.
- [39:32]
B
Mr. Barker.
- [39:33]
C
Let's go, Bob Barker. Let's go, Drew. Whatever Carrie is, whatever his name is, Drew Carey. I would be fine trading those picks now more so than ever just because I've seen how elite this offense is.
- [39:45]
B
Yes.
- [39:46]
C
And you are so close on the offensive side. You just got to get closer on the defensive side, close that gap a little bit. And I think this is a football team that with a wide open division, can win the division and make some noise because of how elite they are on the offensive side. Defense wins championships, but so do elite Offenses, We've seen that in the modern day NFL too. Got to find a way to make them better because right now it's not working.
- [40:08]
D
You're right.
- [40:09]
B
Welcome to the, welcome to the trade party.
- [40:11]
C
I'm here. I hopped on late, but I'm here. Let's make something happen.
- [40:16]
D
I think, I think you have a good point there. And I wouldn't mind trading draft capital for better players.
- [40:21]
C
Absolutely.
- [40:22]
D
Again, though, if you're going to trade, if you're going to trade one of those or even both of those, not.
- [40:28]
C
Both, let's hold on to one of them.
- [40:30]
D
Well, if you're gonna say trade one for one elite player and the other for another elite.
- [40:35]
B
Okay.
- [40:36]
D
I really just do not think. Will it make a difference? Absolutely. Will it take this defense from good to maybe mediocre? Sure, probably.
- [40:44]
C
That's all I think you need, though.
- [40:45]
D
That's all you need to a degree.
- [40:48]
B
Yeah.
- [40:48]
D
But if we are talking about the goal being winning a Super Bowl, I don't think that's enough. I think you, you need to have both an elite offense and an elite defense in today's NFL because you look at, I think you do. You look at the Kansas City Chiefs, they've got an elite quarterback and they've got a defense that plays really well under Steve Spagnolo. With elite. You look at the Philadelphia Eagles, they have an elite offense, maybe not this year, and an elite defense that has playmakers everywhere. If that's what we're comparing this to, and that's what history has shown in recent years, that is necessary to win a Super Bowl. Cowboys don't have that. And I don't think two trades would necessarily change that. And it very rarely would. If very rarely would it. Are there players out there that you trade a first round pick or whatever to help this defense? Absolutely. The bar is not very high.
- [41:42]
C
So with that mindset, and I don't think you're entirely wrong, you have to be better. I just think this offense is good enough to carry the load. That's all I'm saying.
- [41:51]
D
Sure.
- [41:52]
C
But if we're going to go by that mentality and that conversation, let's start trading players.
- [41:58]
B
Let's.
- [41:59]
C
Let's throw in the towel here in a couple weeks. If things don't go your way in Washington or against Washington in Denver, you go into the bi week and you're what, two, five and one at that point? Let's go ahead. Let's, let's start building toward that time. Let's start building toward 26, 27, 28 because you have the draft capital already. Let's just scrap this thing and get going. Because like you said initially, with the current window that Dak Prescott is playing in, whoever you're drafting in those first round opportunities is either going to have to hit immediately or it's going to be a quarterback plain. That's just part of it. And then Dax career at that point will be in the rearview mirror.
- [42:37]
B
So here's, here's my counterpoint, and this is why I shook my head. Tommy, I don't think. Well, it would be ideal. Goes without saying, it would be ideal for you to be able to build a situation where you have an elite defense and an elite offense. Every NFL team, that's what. That's the goal. That's the goal. But not every super bowl winner has that. So then you go and look at each respective super bowl winner. You ask yourself which side of the ball won them the Super Bowl. Okay? There are situations where if you have an elite defense, then your offense can be just average or slightly above average. Just do enough. And it's the inverse is true as well. So if this situation where Dak has is playing out of his mind and George Pickens is playing out of his mind and CD Lamb when he comes back, gets back to playing out of his mind and yesterday's game against the Panthers notwithstanding, Javante Williams in the rushing attack gets back on track. Establishing your offense. We can all agree that your offense is elite. What you need from your defense is to be average to slightly above average. But in that you need takeaways, yes, you have to get takeaways. You can't be. So this is where I agree with you. You can't simply be average to slightly above average. And that's it. You have to be slightly above average but have splash plays. The Cowboys defense is not only poor right now, in the worst in the league, just generally speaking, in several major categories and most that matter, they're also one of the worst in league in splash plays and taking the ball away and giving up splash and giving up splash plays. So look at the Spectrum. Look at the Spectrum. You're giving up a bunch of explosive plays, but you're not generating explosive plays on your side of the ball either. It's, it's a recipe for disaster. And that's what we're seeing. So this Cowboys team, or just strip it away because people are going to take what I'm about to say and say, oh, you know, see you saying the Cowboys can win. That's not what I'm saying no.
- [44:26]
C
And that's not what I'm saying either.
- [44:28]
B
Let's say any NFL team. Any NFL team, any of the 32. You can win a Super bowl with an elite offense and an average to slightly above average defense. As long as that defense is doing two things. One, limiting explosive plays, which by definition makes you slightly above average or better. And creating explosive plays with takeaways and.
- [44:51]
C
Force forms defenses that we talked about last week.
- [44:54]
B
You put that together, that can win you a Super Bowl. It doesn't have to be elite plus elite. That's ideal. That's what everybody wants.
- [45:00]
C
I want to hear Tommy's rebuttal after the break. We got to go to the break. Tommy's rebuttal when we come back.
- [45:05]
A
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- [46:30]
B
How's it going? You see that Cowboys game?
- [46:32]
C
Oh, I watched.
- [46:33]
D
Been seeing some good things.
- [46:35]
B
Totally. They have some talent. Yep.
- [46:38]
C
Some great talent.
- [46:39]
B
And they got some fight.
- [46:40]
C
Hoping this is the year.
- [46:41]
B
Me too. Oh, I'm Cody, by the way. I'm Travis. Nice to meet you, Travis. Go Cowboys.
- [46:47]
C
Go Cowboys.
- [46:49]
B
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G
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- [47:29]
C
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- [48:01]
D
Hey mom, before you ask, I've done my homework and the dishwasher's unloaded. Nice.
- [48:05]
B
Hey, can you.
- [48:06]
D
Hey hon.
- [48:07]
C
Yes, I've got the finale ready to play.
- [48:08]
D
Here's your wine.
- [48:10]
C
Wow.
- [48:11]
F
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- [48:30]
C
Back to Talking Cowboys Back here on Talking Cowboys following the 30 to 27 loss to the Carolina Panthers. Patrick Noi Walker, Tommy Yarish, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. We are debating what to do next if you're the Dallas Cowboys. Do you trade for prospects to try and get your defense close enough to being at a serviceable or even above average level? Do you let it ride with the draft picks that you've got or do you continue on as you're going and figure out it down the line, which is probably what's ultimately going to happen. But Tommy Patrick had just given his thoughts. I want you to rebuttal here.
- [49:12]
D
Yeah, I think you know part of the reason why all of us are agreeing with so many different aspects of what we're all Saying is because there is no concrete answer or solution to this. Right? No, we're really just going off of what history has shown us recently because everybody had the answer everybody be winning Super Bowls. But look, I think that you need to have a really strong presence on both sides of the football more often than not to be able to win you a Super Bowl. It's not always because teams have done it without that. I think the prime example of that, and I'm apologizing in advance to Cowboys Fans, is the 2023 Cowboys because Dak Prescott on the offense, they're playing at an unbelievably high level. The defense was I would categorize as above average. Yeah, above average to average. And look at what happens when the Green Bay packers come into town. They walk the floor with you, mop the floor with you, whatever the term is.
- [50:12]
A
Sure.
- [50:13]
D
It's not even close. And so that's what I'm saying is, you know, if that. That's a defense that had Micah Parsons, that's a defense that had all of the pieces, most of the pieces that they've got that you know, you would say okay. And I think really that was a team that you could say of all the Cowboys team in the last 30 years where they've been in this drought, that team was up there in the ones that had the best chance to win.
- [50:37]
C
07 14.
- [50:38]
D
Yeah, yeah. Maybe not the best, but up there with it. And they had what you guys are talking about, a elite offense with a average to above average defense. And look at what happens week one.
- [50:51]
B
But you know what? You didn't have a single takeaway in that game.
- [50:56]
D
But to the takeaways point Cowboys have won the turnover battle the last three games. They've been plus in the turnover battle the last three games.
- [51:03]
C
But you're giving plays though.
- [51:05]
D
Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, but. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't even matter. And yes, the turnover battle is something that every coach, regardless of level, every time we call a high school game. What are the keys to the game? Coach, we've got to win the turnover battle. You can win the turnover battle and it won't matter if you're giving up. You know, like, like I. You ready for the Panthers play calls in the fourth quarter? Run, run, run, run. Run. Run pass. Run pass, touchdown. Run pass, pass, punt. Run pass pass. Run pass pass. Run, run pass pass. Run, run, run, run, run. Field goal.
- [51:41]
C
That's a lot of runs.
- [51:43]
B
They were cooking the clock on purpose which was very.
- [51:45]
C
Well, they were which was very. I thought David Hellman put out a great tweet. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm paraphrasing. He basically is saying one of the most embarrassing parts of this defensive performance is that you gave the ball back to Carolina with about 6 minutes left left and you weren't able to touch the ball again. That's the. That was part of the problem in that whole sense. So I, I do. I agree with you, Tommy, and I agree with you in different ways. I think you're not close enough yet to categorize this as a Super bowl contingent team, and you probably won't when you make a move of some sort. But I think a pass rusher and a solidified either safety or corner, throw them in the secondary, we'll figure it out one way or the other will help limit those big plays. They will limit the pass play or the splash plays that have really hurt you to this point. Because the edge rusher, if you're able to get home with an edge rusher that's elite and elevate the rest of the edge rushers in that rotation, all of a sudden the time clock starts to shrink. Your time clock as a quarterback to operate starts to shrink. That puts less stress on your secondary. And if you've got another body in the secondary, whether it's a safety, whether it's a corner doesn't really matter. We'll have a conversation, I'm sure, at some point this week, about Trayvon Diggs and his play and what it has been through the first month and a half. He hasn't been there. He hasn't been. It hasn't been good. So maybe you get a corner to solidify one side of the field, maybe you do something like that, they're one or two moves away from being serviceable. I agree with you, though, Tommy. I don't think they're going to be elite. They would love to be. The 2023 Cowboys defense, that's where they would love to be, but it gave them a shot in 2023 and they missed their shot. I think Dak Prescott's playing at a level right now to where you can bank on them having a shot as long as the defense is serviceable.
- [53:35]
B
Really, really quick because I'm looking at the time and then I know we'll close out the thing. And I'm glad you brought up the Green Bay game because it actually makes my point. This was one of the best defenses in the league that season. But you know what? They Struggled against run defense. Yes.
- [53:48]
D
Running.
- [53:48]
B
Right. So it's. It's always. You can't be elite if you're struck. If you have a gaping hole somewhere, whether it be in giving up chunk plays or stopping the run. They had an issue, could not stop the run. They were the best in the league at taking the ball away. Okay, Green Bay came in, they couldn't stop the run and they didn't take the ball away.
- [54:04]
C
It was all the red flags.
- [54:05]
B
So there you go. That's my point. Like, so that means they were not an elite defense because when the time came to really buck up and it's post season and you're at home and you're against the Green Bay packers, you did. You suffered against run defense, which is something you had done all season. And you were unable to do the one thing that made you great, which were splash plays and not allowing chunk plays. So that means they were never really a great defense that year. They just were great at takeaways. And then they weren't able to get none again, get any against the Green Bay Packers. And then the run defense showed you what it was against the Green Bay Packers. So you don't need an elite and elite. You want both. You want both to be elite, but you're not going to. I've watched too much NFL football to believe that you require both of those things to be perfectly in sync to win the Super Bowl. That's rarely the case, actually. So, I mean, even if you go back and look at Eagles, Chiefs, the defense won that game for the Eagles. Not the offense. Not the offense.
- [55:02]
C
One word answers and then we're getting out of here. Are you moving on from Matty Refluz?
- [55:06]
D
No.
- [55:07]
B
Too soon.
- [55:09]
C
That's two words. So yes or no?
- [55:10]
B
Oh, no.
- [55:11]
D
Charles Barkley.
- [55:12]
C
No. Yeah. No, for me, words.
- [55:15]
D
For you.
- [55:18]
C
It's four words, Chuck.
- [55:20]
A
All right.
- [55:21]
B
And then it was like Tupac, like the number two. And then soon.
- [55:23]
C
So Tucson, the picks, the first round picks. Trade them or keep them?
- [55:28]
D
Keep them.
- [55:28]
B
Trade them.
- [55:30]
C
I'm going to say trade one. I'm going to trade them.
- [55:32]
B
Split the difference.
- [55:33]
C
I'll split the difference. All right, that's going to do it for us. I did. I flipped the script. I've had a change of heart today. That's going to do it. But for us here on Talking Cowboys, we'll be back on Wednesday. No show tomorrow. We've got a little bit going on here in studio. So we will not be here tomorrow. We will be back Wednesday and we'll start turning the page going into the Week 7 matchup against Dan Quinn and the Washington Commanders. For Patrick no See Walker, Tommy Yarish, Chris Beam in the back, I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long. We'll see you on Wednesday with more Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys.com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
- [56:09]
B
How about this? Now.
- [56:21]
H
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